Life is great now

[GreatLife]

I just wanted to post here and say how wonderfull this site has helped me. I have been coming here for months. I have never posted anything here but I did follow a'lot of other peoples advice and now I am 8 days clean and not having any more withdrawls. ( The first 3 days were hell).  I was taking Hydro's, Oxy's pretty much anything I can get my hands on. I was up to 90 mgs a day for almost 2 years. I tried tapering but knowing I had the pills I just had to take them, So I quit cold turkey with the thompson reciepe. IT WORKS. All I want to say is thanks for your posts as other people do read them and it does HELP.

[ChiTownGirl]

Wow, glad you made it and welcome to the forum!   I too am starting a full blown detox this weekend and am pretty scared of the WD symptoms.  I go stir crazy if I dont take a pill every 6 hours, even if it is only 1 pill.  I am consumed all day by how many pills I have, how many can I take, when can I get more, where can I get more, etc, etc. etc.  Complete madness.  I am ready to quit though, I kinda got in trouble due to my pill usage and really dont have any option but to quit.  Glad to hear your success story, however I am not doing the Thomas Recipe route, I have never taken any vitamins and will not start now.  I instead have clonidine, trazadone and bentyl to help lessen some of the symptoms of my WD this weekend.  I took 2 trazadone last night because I am almost completely out of my pills, I have like 6 left of Norco 10/325 and want to save them for when I absolutely cannot handle the WD symptoms, but the trazadone really helped calm me down and helped with the restless legs I usually get in the early AM.  I was able to take 1 norco at exactly 7:30 PM last night and made it all the way to 6:00 am this morning without having my usual tensing of my entire body and legs.  That is probably the worst along with the anxiety. Anyhow, keep posting and let us know how you are doing!  CTG.

[suzieneedshelp]

Sweetie...u cAnt take any narcotics during withdrawAl or you start all over!  Thats like an alcoholic saying.. ill just keep some booze handy if i need it...NOT!

i KNOW JUST WHERE U ARE COMING FROM THOUGH.  i TRIED TO KEEP SOME STADOL ON HAND JUST IN CASE I NEEDED IT..well it will call to you 24/7 and if you have any refills they call to you too.  and eventually you take em.. not cuz u need to either!
THAT is how i failed my first detox effort!
This addiction is a disease you know!  And your mind will play tricks on you convincing u to take more or take your stash.  
Peace to you  my dear... get rid of those pills!
Dont put yoursefl thru that torture and then relapse like me!
Peace again!
Suzie

[harlem]

I want life to be great too!!Today is my second day of not taking ultram/ultracet. I have been taking these pills on and off (mostly on) for almost 2 years now. I work for a dr. and can get them very easily in sample form. I have drained myself in all of my efforts of trying to obtain these pills and maintain my composure when the stash gets low. I need some support from anyone who can lend a hand. I am only 25, and the mother of a 3 year old, and I just cannot do this anymore. I am actually very happy and looking forward to completing the rest of my life w/out using these type of pills. They were prescribed to me for legitimate pain and the next thing i knew i was taking them everyday just to maintain the "euphoric" feeling. When i attempted to get off of them 2 years ago, i suffered from a severe withdrawal and decided it would be better to keep on them. Obviously this cannot be done in good conscience or good health so now is the time for me to begin a new day! Please, i'd appreciate any feedback. Any advice or true stories about the same situation is so appreciated.... Thank you

[theGolden1]

Dear Chi ... you are doing great in cutting down on the opiods.
Keep going and don't let anyone rain on your parade. I know you will reach your goals in due time. I just wish I could feel as hopeful. But that's the beauty of ultram .... it's like fly paper. I have yet to hear a sucessful ultram detox story....

Dear Suzie ... I'm sure Chi realizes that she is not "clean" but
is pleased with her progress. How much ultram were you taking and how are you coming off? I don't want to drag my detox out too long .... or I get discouraged and give up. I do have a life to live ... Goldie

[theGolden1]

If you are 25 years old ..... you can get off ultram. You will recover without too much problem. Just get some addiction help. The trouble with this drug is it stays in the stystem a long time. My email is ***@**** . I'll send you the information I have so far .... Good Luck

[suzieneedshelp]

Hey!  How r u?  I am doing ok.  I was taking about 8 a day and then cut down to 6 thne 4 then off em.  
As for Chitown, and ME!  ALL I KNOW IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD AND EXPERIENCED.  we CANT JUST TAKE A LITTLE!  It is the nature of the beast and the disease for most.  Nor can we keep some on hand just in case...
Do u go to NA or AA?  I think they are great programs if you find the right group for you.  
I am very very nauseated today and dry heaves.  Shaking and vibrating brain.  But i will be ok!
Love, hugs!
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

It is admirable wut u are going to do!  You have already achieved a great milestone admitting it is a problem and desiring to get off the devil!  Let us know how we can help and how u r plz.. keep posting!
Suzie

[teeitup]

Read all the post even if the lead question does not pertain to you. There are great stories and ways different people have either quit all together or cut back. Good luck!

teeitup

[FINISHED!!]

Chi,
Again, I MUST agree with Suzie. You will only be climbing a greasy ladder if you detox to the point where you just KNOW you can't handle the withdrawls & reach for a pill or two. One step up is NEVER worth two steps down. If you get 24 hours into your detox & take just ONE PILL, all that pain & misery you just suffered for that day shoot right down the toilet. You MUST go into this ready to tackle the withdrawls & all WITHOUT any of the pills that you're battling. Trust me on this one. I detoxed with a whole bottle of Vicodin ES in the house & after the first day I convinced myself that taking two pills when I get up certainly won't hurt my recovery...especially since I was taking 5 or 6 at a time, 4 or 5 times a day. Guess what? I felt a WHOLE LOT better for the greater part of the morning...until those pills wore off. Then I ACTUALLY felt WORSE than I did the prior day. That's when I KNEW that this had to be done without ANY pills other than immodium to keep me off of the toilet. I successfully completed my withdrawls with the remainder of my meds in the house but I was SO ready to be clean that I honestly knew in my heart that I would not, under any circumstance take another for withdrawls. You REALLY CAN DO THIS CHI...without your security balnket in the house.

Again Chi...you are in my prayers & I have the GREATEST faith in you for your upcoming battles. Please keep us posted & be VERY careful with what you do with those 6 pills. Mine is only advice & concern. You seem to have already siked yourself out regarding the symptoms of detox, making them worse than they'll actually be. I'd REALLY hate to see you prolong this uncomfortable experience by taking just one pill to help ease the pain & slipping back to the beginning of a vicious circle.

TAKE CARE CHI...BE STRONG!!!

FINISHED!!

[hippy]

hey everyone , i all is well.
the withdrawls from ultram and ultracet are no fun.
one thing is for sure tho , we make out to be worse then it really is before we do take the plunge at kicking.
the worst is the restless leg at night in the 1st week.
waking up in the middle of the night or not even getting much sleep at all is always the hard part. when we do go through this it is a real good idea to get right into the hot bath tub,
sometimes we may have to do this a couple time at night .
so don't get to upset about it. the bath will feel wonderful
while you in it.
the depression and painc during thr day seems worse then it is ,
it will pass after a week   so try not to pay to much attention to it, and keep busy.
for those who are willing a few L-tyrosine and b-6 really do help
with the with drawls in week one.
in any event just do what ever you have to to get through weeek one then try to start moving around , walk, ride a bike.
whatever. in time your natraul endorphins will slowly start to
kick in a little each day,
dot forget to eat and take imodium (immodium) for the runs,
the runs in week one will deplete your body of all your nutrients
and electolites and this will make the with drawls worse then they have to be. gator aid help to restore the lost electolites.

well peace to everyone//////////hippy

[lifeisbetter]

After detoxing basically every way possible ie, cold turkey, self weaning (ha) hospital detox and then finally the rapid detox I referred to in above post, I'll tell you what happened to me and what worked best. I literally tried to detox myself at home at least 25 times (not counting the forced "mini detoxes" I went through while trying to get more.) The first time seemed bad at the time but I had nothing to gage it by. I can tell you for me each subsequent withdrawel period became more painful for a longer period of time. Suzieneedshelp and Finished! are right about not taking any narcotic while you detox. There is a catch to that though. They give you small doses of opiates in the hospital and take you down a little more humanly than cold turkey...but... there is no way to get more. If I ever had a refill coming to me and I tried to detox at home by trying to take a few remaining pills I'd saved "in case it gets too bad" I would take that dose and like they said in the other posts it would trigger me and I would absolutely have to get the refill. If, however you have no way to get any opiate for at least 2 weeks preferably more, You may be able to get some badly needed relief by taking a dose "when it gets terribly hard to take"  actually if you have enough, one pill every 6 hours on day one, one every 8 hours the next day and one every 12 the third taking one final pill 24 hours as your last pill is a prescribed means of detox in some hospitals. (I'm also a registered nurse so I've been through detox from both sides, this method really is a protocol that has been used for detox... among many and with other meds as well, such as clonidine and specific meds for symtom relief as they occur.) Realize though, that you will go through another withdrawel after that last pill but it makes the detox more tolerable and gives you a slightly better chance at being succesful. You absolutely must give the pills to your husband and you can not have any access to more pills not even a remote chance. I am only telling you this from alot of unfortunate detox experiences of my own. You seem really strong and determined to do this. Everybody has their own experience and does what works for them. This is just one suggestion among many of the great ones that have been posted here. Good luck this weekend and how did you do today? Keep posting when you can, I've seen how much your supported here. I'll keep you in my prayers. Take care

[saveyourself]

Fear of WD,

How many of us have continued useing, tapering, picking up 36 hours after determinred this was it? I won't use no matter what.  Then the cycle starts all over,  I will quit next month or next week.

I have 33 days clean from any opiate, the thomas recipe helped me, however, my Dr, who I got honest with sent me to his adickionoligist, She reccomenned methadone, been there done that in 88. I am an addict who had 7 years clean in NA became successful and thought I could drink socially.  Within a year I was an alkie and also got addicted to gambling in a huge way, with huge losses.

My parents died in 2000, leaving a selection of pain pills, I took my first lora tab two days before my Dad's funeral. Hadn't used pills in years because I drank.

Months later, I found out I had a disease that required a chemo like treatment for 6 months, I was cured, but was left with an oxy and perc habit.  This went on for 14 months, 400 mgs of oxy, 120mgs of percs, a day just to feel normal.  I was seeing multible DR.s and thought of quitting everyday.  That day finally came in the first week of DEC. 2002  I thought WD would be over by Christmas.  I still have them.  But,I have a freedom I haven't had for 2 yrs.

My addictionoligist, which there are many, it is a growing indusry, Choose carefully if you go this route.  Mine was chosen for me. I am now tapering off of klonopin, been on it a month,stopped cold turkey and now understand the pain and insanity of WD from benzos.  She also put me on Efflexor, anti depressent.  Bottom line is I am going to be drug free by the end of the month.  I am tired all the time, from the prescribed pills.  There is not a drug on the planet I haven't tried and liked at first, when it stopped working I substituted another drug.

I am a recovering addict who goes to an NA meeting everyday, because it works for me.  I know I have blown brain circuts and my brain is never in a normal state.  My solution and answer was to humble my self, go to meetings, get my sponser and work the 12 steps.  I am on step 1.  I have reaquainted myself with some real friends that I chose to leave when I started to drink and stopped meetings and fellowship of people fighting this disease successfully.

I am also a business owner, a husband and a father of two daughters. Met my wife in recovery 14 yrs ago. I would be consider well to do with all the trapping and toys.  Yet in debt, like everyone else.  On the outside I am normal, when I am using, I have gratitude for none of the gifts I have been blessed with.  My only thoghts revolve around how many and how long my pills will last.  I expect with the quantity and length of time I was using, my WD will last 5 or 6 months just like methadone WD in 88.  The legitamate pain I have I will learn to live with, those that have to use pain meds as prescribed to live a normal life my prayers are with you.

Jeez, I don't post for a few days and I write a book.  To the people who are new, there are some very caring, loving people who got me through my first week of WD, to those that helped me thank you, I never would have made it through the first week without you, you know who you are. There is life after drugs, it just most of us believe the lie of the pills for way to long.  
Strength and Honor
Greg

[suzieneedshelp]

Excellent post!   Your personal experience is where it is at for those needing knowledge and support. Ty for sharing.  I am in withdrawal now and i know soon it will be over!  This is my real withdrawal now... And my last!
Peace to you!
Suzie

[MrsRat]

I read your post on the other thread where you said you were in the hospital recently.  I'm so sorry to hear what you have been thru.  I am also a person who didn't know the damage that taking a simple over the counter drug, such as Mortrin or Advil, could do.  I was taking them both after moving to a new state to try to handle my pain, which at that point I had no idea was from.  I just knew I hurt all the time and dropped down to 72 pounds. I was at the point I couldn't walk on my own and my hubby had to carry me from where I was sitting to where I needed to go.  These days I have my own wheelchair the insurance company bought me for the bad days when I need it. I even have wheelie bars on it, it's just way too cool. (If you were looking, I was that idiot in the wheelchair earlier tonight doing donuts in the middle of the parking lot. LOL.)

When I did get a doctor who believed I hurt and he ran a CT scan, small bowel series, and colonoscopy. They found that a foot of my small bowel was 90% closed up on the inside with scar tissue and the outside of it was covered with a U shaped web of scar tissue that held it on one place instead of letting it move freely so food could go thru me and be absorbed. (Sheesh, talk about run on sentences.)  I actually have a picture the surgeon took for me of the little over a foot of small bowel he removed should anyone want to see it. I have Crohn's Disease and Fibromyalgia.  I am always in pain.  I'm not sure the level you would say it is, all I know is when it's not under control with the pain meds, I will pass out from it.  My hubby has picked me off the floor many times in the past till we finally got me on a system of meds to keep it under control.

I hope you never have to be in a position again where you have to take Mortrin or Advil type drugs.  They seem so innocent, but they can cause major problems to those prone to immuno diseases such as myself.  I hate to hear of anyone going thru what I have to live with daily.  While you hear of how bad tylenol is for your liver, taken in less than 2000 mg. a day, it won't do the damage Mortrin or Advil will they tell me.  Tylenol is the only over the counter type medicine I can take should I need it.  I don't these days cause I am classified as a disabled Chronic pain patient.  We have finally after years of searching, found the meds I can take that get rid of the pain.  My Crohn's is finally in remission too, after 4 years of pure hell, but the Fibro is always there.  I do have small Crohn's flares too, when I have stress in my life.

Believe me, you will feel so much better after your surgery.  You also shouldn't have to take pain meds again as I have to.  Ulcers don't come back usually, unless the original reason that caused them is still happening in your body and they aren't incurable like Crohn's or Fibro is.  I wish you well and will pray your surgery goes smoothly and you aren't in pain for very long, if at all, afterwards.  I am Christian as you are, know you are in my prayers as you go thru this time in your life.

[hippy]

your post was touched my heart.
i  have only seen your fun side.
my prayers are with them all so.
peace  hippy////michael

[DubeMechanic]

Its so good to see all these posts of folks who took the plunge. Im on day 8 (more or less, the 100 ugH fentanyl patch I was on for over a year stays in your skin for 12-24 hours after the patch is removed) and I feel pretty good. Definately feeling better and better each day. I did cheat the first few days with a mini taper, had 4 oc 40s and 8 percs that I tapered with the first 4 days. I still have 2 percs and 15 codien pills that I havent touched in 3 days now. Yippee!

After 5 days I got some klonopin and somas to help with sleep as I had to work thurs and fri but other that that Im free! Still have 5 klonopins and havent touched them either in two days.

I didnt use the Thomas Recipe except for vitimins and later the klonopins (a benzo) but looking back I wish Id had the klonopins earlier as they definately help the jitters and sleep. Somas are a muscle relaxer and may help with RLS although mine were mild.. come to think of it, the whole ordeal was mild compared to what I thought it would be. Took 3 days off work hiding under the "flu."

One thing I havent seen here is a bit of preparing you might want to look into. Stock up on easy to eat and easy to fix meals.. stuff that can be haeted and served in the same container.. soups, microwave breakfasts, even sport shakes or something just to make sure you get some food. If youre like me you wont want to cook or do dishes or much of anything.

Great job everyone!

God Bless

DM

[Jennibean]

Guys I have a question about oxycontin. I said I would never break a pill but now I think I am going to. I have a zillion oxycontin tablets because my Dr put me on it but I never really took it and so they accumulated for a time. Now yesterday I didn't get to the Dr to get my regular oxycodone so I am wondering if I have 20mg tabs of oxycontin and I break it in half will that break teh time release systym and also is it exactly like taking 20mg of percocet? In my mind there shouldn't be a difference so it seems ok to do since I take 40mg of percocet at a time usually. I will not break my 80mg oxycontins that woudl be too much but would it really be that awful to break the 20's if it is exactly like taking what I normally take anyway? I just want to know if it is exactly the same if it transfers mg for mg. I wouldn't want to take 40mg of broken oxycontin if for some reason it really equals more than 40mg of percocet. Am I making sense? Anyway please let me know because I really need to take it soon for pain and before withdrawal starts, I do not like taking the oxycontin whole because it is long lasting it is alot harder to withdrawal from and I am in the process of tapering. I usually take 40mg at a time 6 times a day and I am down to 4 times a day now. Thanks for any responses
Jen

[vikequeen]

Harlem I am curious to know what kind of euphoric feeling you got from ultram? I take them and get nothing, not that I am taking them to get high I am taking them to detox, its what teh detox clinic uses, how many were you taking at a time? how many should I take to detox from vicodin? Love Baddgirl

[Jennibean]

People who start off taking ultram usually notice some euphoria because it does cause some however it is not nearly as strong as vicodin or percocet so somebody who is use to the euphoria of vicodin would probably not consider ultram to be very euphoric. Does that make sense? Also be careful with the ultram you deffinately do not want to take more of that it can be more dangerous actually it is more dangerous to withdrawal from than vicodin. It lowers the seizure threshold. I really think that some changes are going to made soon concerning ultram. As of now it is not considered a scheduled narcotic but as the FDA and Dr's learn that it is causing addiction and that detox from it should really be done under medical supervision the labeling will be changed I am certain. In our detox center that I used to work for many people had seizures coming off of ultram and although ultram is not as pleasant to take as the other pain meds it seems more unpleasant to come off of.

Jen

[DubeMechanic]

Ive been reading some threads and some folks have asked what the equivilant (sp?) doses of various drugs are. MrMicheal gave me a web site that listed that a few months back:

http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.htm

Hope this helps. I dont know if Ive even read it right, perhaps someone could check it out and explain it.

God Bless

DM

[DubeMechanic]

Ive cut OC 40s in half and quarters (also 100 mg morphine pills too) and while I dont know for sure, as long as its a clean break (not crushing or chewing) it seems to work. I believe (again, not sure) that the mix inside the pill is a combo of fast and slow disolving compounds. So 1/2 an OC 40 is about the same as an OC 20.

Again, Im not a doc, just a user but Ive done it many many times and it seemed to work fine. I didnt get a buzz so it couldnt of disolved all at once. And with the morphine pills Ive sliced up it was the same. Just dont chew or crush them, make a nice clean break.

Id be careful the first time, every one is different.

Hope this helps

God Bless

DM

[Jennibean]

I think I want to break the time release. I am down to taking 8 percocet at a time from taking 12 so I want to crush 2 20's to make that equal 8 percocet or 40mg of percocet. I just want to make sure it will be exactly the same. If 40mg oc is actually more than 40mg of percocet when crushed then I won't do it but if it is the same I am going to do it. If you crush oxycontin and you get it all at once is it exactly like taking regular percocet? Because regular percocet is immediate release and so would the oxycontin be if you crushed it right? I am not looking to take more just to coninue taking what I am currently taking until I see my Dr. Or I could even go down to crushing just one 20 to taper from there. I will not take it whole I have come off of it before and it is hell. I also have no interest in snorting it etc. Does anyone know if it is the same as taking regular percocet if you take teh same exact mg of crushed oc? God I sound like a terrible addict. I am actually but again I have been tapering and am trying to coninue.
Jen

[harlem]

it's funny, when i first started on the ultram i felt woozy and strange. i got a bit nervous b/c i had never used anything for pain b/f (unless you count the stuff they gave me when i was in labor!!) so i used them w/ caution. b/f i knew it though, i realized "hey, this stuff makes me feel so good"... i can't explain it in very good terms, i just know it made me feel good. i was trying to lose the last 10-15 pounds (baby weight) from the pregnancy and saw the weight fall right off after a few months. but then i got down to a skeletal 115 (i am 5' 8"). so of course, that was one thing i was thinking... "hmmm, i lost weight and if i stop, i will gain"... needless to say, i NEEDED to gain b/c i looked freaky. and i had never had a problem w/ my weight as far as looking in the mirror and thinking bad about what i saw. i've always been pretty thin. ok this is so far off from what you asked though.
i guess it just made me feel fuzzy, happy, muscles felt relaxed and it gave me so much energy. that was the best part actually- the energy boost. so i was full of this great energy and also feeling so relaxed and fuzzy. i hate even writing about this though- it is really just such a terrible thing. i never set out to get addicted... it just came to me one day when i realized if i stopped i'd be sick. then i'd try to take less (i was up to 7-10 pills a day) and get shaky and feel sick. i detoxed hard off of that. then i found ultracet to be just as good. it is a combo of tramadol and tylenol. i had it for my back. i totally knew it was probably the same type of thing and took it anyway. i should have declined and asked for something w/ NO tramadol.
anyway, it is ironic reading about all of the vicodin stories b/c i had taken one or 2 of those to sub for the ultracet i didn't have and that did NOTHING for me. i think the tramadol is what i am severely addicted to. it is very surprising to hear they give that to detox from other drugs. there are so many lawsuits out there pending over this one drug. it is addictive and the manufacturers claim it is not. to hell w/ their bs opinion. let's see one of their family members get addicted and see if the opinion remains the same....

[harlem]

Thank you so much for responding to me. I went on a forum once when my dad was dying from cancer and it was like a cocoon of support so i should not be surprised to see the same thing here. I feel good today. I actually have been surprised by the way my body is handling this, this time anyway. i have been looking at it in terms of minutes going by- NOT hours or days and definitely NOT in terms of the far off future... too overwhelming! I haven't slept much (is it from the pills or my son getting up 10 times to go pee.... hmmm?! ha ha!) but it is doable. the bath thing really does help. it takes me away from the chills. i do have a question or maybe more of an observation... i keep feeling very light headed, like when your blood sugar gets low or you've drank too much coffee w/ nothing in your stomach.... so i have been shoving food down my throat thinking this will fix the feeling. and it doesn't. it just makes me feel like **** for overeating! i think something was mentioned about b-6? is this a vitamin? what does it help w/? again, thanks to all of you. it shows a lot when people who know nothing about each other will get on a website simply for the sole purpose of helping others. i think this is the saving grace for everyone. i know it was for me w/ my dad dying and is now. thank you.....

[DubeMechanic]

OCs last 12 hours, precs last 6 so there must me more oxy in an OC 20 than 4 percs. Im just guessing but its probably more like a 20 oc is like 8 precs spaced out (4, then 6 hours later the other 4 because of the time release bit). Otherwise if they were the same OCs would last 6 hours instead of 12. Follow me?

If you crush (OC 40s) them it will probably be like chewing 16 percs and it will only last a few hours.

Try just on 20 OC first and see. Id be leary of crushing a 40.

Hope this helps

God Bless

DM

[DubeMechanic]

I just reread what I posted, I may be wrong (Im no doctor)..

Instead on an OC 20 being like 8 percs spaced out it may just be 4 spaced out.. like taking 2 percs, then 6 hours later 2 more instead of the 4 and 4 I wrote above.

Either way, be careful.

Are you sure you want to crush them? they last nowhere near as long then plus get you much higher as everything disolves at once.

Try a 20 first though.

God Bless

DM

[saveyourself]

Hey All,

It's a good day clean. Just back from a meeting and now going to clean up the garage.  I have put this off for six months.  I got my first 7 hours of sleep in a row for the first time last nite.  For 33 days it has been 3 or 4 , 2 hrs in a row at the most then up all night, then 2 more hrs at 5 or 6 am.

Mrs Rat- My prayers are with you and your post certainly made me aware of over the counter meds. Lets just pray the Rapture comes soon.  I can't wait to say good bye to this planet.  All in God's Hands and Time.

suzie- hang in there, your posts are always kind and so full of love.  Thank you for all you have helped me with.  I know we each follow our own path to recovery,  I am just grateful I know mine and thats NA. Drugs, legal and illegal have caused the deaths of so many people I grew up with or they are doing time, get out, get high, get busted and go back to prison. Websters definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. You are awesome.  I have feeling God's got big plans for you, when we are in recovery for awhile, humanly, unexplainable things happen.  All of it good and beyond what we could imagine or deserve.

hippee, you are the man. This addict is grateful to you more than you know.  But then again you do know, one addict helping another and the gift of NA. Look forward to the day I can meet you personally.

Finished, good to see you posting. Hang in there brother.

CTG - you can do this.  However, I to recommend flushing the norcos, IMHO .  Take one norco at day 3 of WD, you are at day one of WD.  I also notice you won't take vitamins that will help with WD, yet you will take what a DR. gives you. I am making no point, just an observation of our mindset.  Hot baths and immodium are a must, you have the support of your husband, you are in my prayers and there is life after drugs and WD.  A much Saner one, or as I have been told happy, joyous and free.

For me,it is on to organize the most disorganized garage in America.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[percsnomas]

That correction is right. OC 20 has 20mg of oxycodone or 4 perc 5's.

I'm not sure why all the mystery around oxycontin doseage .
I think due to the time release aspect of OC's, FEELS like different dosings.

All OC's are the oxycodone (without the tylenol of course) at their specified amts. OC 10 = 10 mg oxycodone equiv to 2 perc 5mgs.                  

All the way up to     OC 80 = 80 mgs oxycodone equiv to 16 percs
                Used to make OC 160's
Yes crushing them up(finely) will accomplish basically the fast acting percocet.

[DubeMechanic]

Thanks for the info. About the rest of my post, is it more or less correct?

An OC 10 is like taking 1 perc, waiting 6 hours then another perc? IE only 5 mgs of oxy are in the blood at any time?

Always trying to learn new things :)

Thanks

DM

[oxic]

It's a lit'l more continuous.
It was explained to me, that the oxycodone, with its binders and fillers, when swallowed hole; kindof peel off in layers. Like layers of an onion skin peeling away....as it is dissolving in the gut, for dissemination to the bloodstream.

That is why doing anything to an OC's morphology, can change its' original intent, of slow and continual release.

[oxic]

sorry Dube, my home handle is oxic.

[DubeMechanic]

heh

That shoots my theory down :)

Ive been cutting OC 40 in halves for a while now. Well before this I should say, Im 8 days clean now.

I figured as long as it was a clean break it would still dissolve slowly (maybe faster but still slow) and give about half the dosage. It did seem to work that way pretty much as I still went 12 hours between halfs with no noticable difference when I did my mini taper. It still has to dissolve from the outside in I figure, even if it now has more surface area per dose.

Thanks

DM

[suzieneedshelp]

Harlem.. U must get the Thomas recipe!  It is very effective in assisting you with detox.  the b-6, l- tyrosine, benzos, etc all help tremendously to allevate uncomfortable symptoms.  Maybe when Thomas looks on here next he can post it.  Have not seen it lately on here.  
Save..
Ty dear one! Your compiments are really apprreciated esp since i have had a very hard time lately.  Been very misunderstood and treated terribly by some people who i had respected before now.  I wish people woudl try to communcate better but.. most are just too dayum afriad to be honest.  If one is your real freind you tell them wut u are thinking and you ask questions and you give one annother the benefit of the doubt, right? WEll i have learned who my true friends are at least.  Or at least learned those who are capable of real friendship and those who are not. Maybe one day we can be freinds agin for forgiveness is such a liberating powerful entity in our lives!
Peace, love, hugs!
Suzie

[BCMOM]

I am new to ths. I have been put oxy 4mg 2x a day...for management of pain,  its been 3 weeks and i have enough i guess untill my next appointment march 3,  does this mean i will have withdrawals if they decide to discontinue?  god that scares me. I dont really know how long he plans on having me on these, however, i do feel pretty good. my pain is far less, i have codeine for breakthrough.   u guys seem to all know the real deal
thanks

[saveyourself]

OXYCONTIN

I have WD off of just about every pain killer available,diallada, demorel, methadone, heroin, ect.  That was 20 years ago with those drugs. Last 10 years, lora tabs, percs, ty 4 ect.

Then I was put on oxy 20s by my doc 14 months ago.  my mom died of cancer and the were a huge help to her with the pain managment.  However, what I have gone through with oxy WD in the last month, was not worth the origional pain relief they offered.

This is my opinion only and many may not agree until you stop taking them and then may relate.  I personally think this drug was created for 2 purposes, those who once start taking it, will never have to stop them.  They were origionally promoted for the terminally ill.  However, due to the quick tolerance one devolops, the need for stronger doses and increased costs are required.  It is also curios why a quagalent wasn't used to prevent the pills being crushed and injected.

My theory is there are billions being spent on illegal heroin in this country.  I would not be surprised if sitting in the board room of the oxy manufactuer, an enterprising young exec thought well in a few years, more than likely this will be just another schedule 3 drug. Heck, it the same as percs, just more concentrated.  Well for this addict, the WD are the most long lasting and intense I have ever experianced, with the exception of methadone, I CT that in 88 at 120mgs.  That story is for another post.  I will never accept oxycontin again.  I know never say never. So those contemplating using this drug, it is unique to WD off of. Regardless of how you compare it to how many percecets.  I saw on a web site that 21 billion dollars was spent on oxy in 2002 and they won't be able to put a quagulant in the pills for at least 3 years to stop injection use.

For those that this drug is there only recourse, my prayers are with you, we all have to do what we have to.  For those not living with a constant level 10 pain, it is pandoras box being opened if you choose oxy.  I wasn't even getting that warm fuzzy or buzz for the last 8 months I was on it.  I chewed 400mgs a day, with 120mgs of percs just to feel normal.  Junkies are now choosing oxy over heroin.  The drug companies are all about money and profits.  It is not their problem if you get addicted, they just make the stuff.  Only one addicts opinion.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[Jennibean]

I have a question for you. The reason I was deciding to crush teh oc's today was to make it just like percocet fast acting because I too said never again woudl I detox from oc it was a hell I never want to experience again. Now I assumed that it was so hellish because it is so long acting. That is why as of late I have only been taking the short acting meds for pain. I thought if I crushed teh same amount of oc as teh percocet I normally take it would be the same until I can see my Dr Monday. Now my question for you is this, You said teh withdrawal was awful and unique yet you say you were chewing them so were you not taking them whole? I am just trying to figure out why your withdrawal from oc would be worse than say percocet if you were chewing them. I was just wanting you to clarify that for me please. I am only taking these until Monday when I can get my regular meds. I hate oc with a passion as you said the pain relief I got was not worth the withdrawal although I do have ALOT of pain at this time and have for several months from a horrible surgery gone wrong. My abdomen feels like my insides are being lit on fire and that the organs inside are being torn constantly. It is severe pelvic adhesive disease made worse by a surgeon cutting 4 of my internal organs by accident and making the adhesions worse. Also my belly looks pregnant and if you feel it, it is full of giant hard lumps basically feels like huge rocks are under the skin. They say those are adhesions and actually my surgeon said he had to chizzel them off like rocks when he tried to remove them. I have also been told there is no cure or even a good treatment for this. I agree that oc should be used on people who never need to get off of them. I just thought it wouldn't be as bad if I chewed it since it would no longer be so long acting. Am I wrong? I have so many of these damn things and I only take them and fill them for times like this where I would have nothing but I haven't needed them in a long time and I used to take them whole, today is teh first time I have taken them since I detoxed before and the first time I crushed them. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Jen

[saveyourself]

I am no DR.  You have a serious medical condition I hope you are getting better from.  I chewed the oxy for the instant release taking 3 or 4 at a time.

Over the many years of opiate abuse, I do believe my brain and body have become so sensitive to opiates, that once I use even a  ty 3 with codiene for a day, I am in WD for 3 days.
This has happen before when I hadn't taken an opiate for years and got 1 pill from my mom.

I have read so much on this board oxy is nothing more than x amount of percs.  Hell,I have detoxed off of percs 10s of times and I am back to normal in a week to ten days. Not so with the oxy.

If your on them for a couple days, it is probably no biggie. the one thing with chewing you get the immediate dose you took.  However, it will not last 12 hours when swallowed whole and the time release is eliminated.  So your pain may return in 5 or 6 hours.

vicojen, by the sound of your condition do what you have to do until mon. when you see your doc. I will pray for your health and thank you for all your posts.  They helped me during the early phases of my WD.

I have got to watch my attitude and opinion of Dr.'s, drug companies and pharmacies.  I have had to deal with the system for two of the worst two years of my life. From the doc's who make you wait 2 or 3 hrs after a scheduled appointment, from the pharmacists who have the power and failed med school, have bad attitudes and rudeness to those in geniune need of meds for ailments and finally the drug companies who are making every drug they come out with have some addictive and WD side effect to them to keep people hooked.

Let us know how your doing and we can all get you thruogh the week end until your appointment with your Doc. God Bless.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[suzieneedshelp]

Hey man... can u e-mail me plz...TY!
***@****
ANYONE can e-mail me at any time too!
Peace and hugs!
Suzie

[oxic]

Greg, I'm glad you continue to stay in recovery!!

You read lots on here that Oxycontin is just X times percs, because that is what it is.  I don't have to argue what the make-up of these pills are. It is fact. AND YES I HAVE DONE BOTH.

People have much more harsh w/d's with OC's due to the fact, that generally you are injesting more oxycodone; several people I know have no problem eating, crushing, snorting an 80mg OC, but I don't know as many people that can bash back 16 percs(5mg) at once. Not to say it can't happen, but less frequently.

Percs

ps....percs are schedule II drugs(not III)

[Jennibean]

Oxic what you said was interesting that you know many people that can chew an 80mg oc but not take 16 percs. I did end up chewing 60mg of oc last night and today and it is nothing like taking 12 percocets. I actually could not even feel any type of buzz after chewing the oc and was wondering what the hell everyone is doing that for, didn't seem at all great to me yet I am one that can take 12 percs with no problem I have a large tolerance right now. I decided to go to urgent care today and just ask for enough percs until I see my Dr this week. I had my medical records with me and a bunch of oxycontin so the fact that I was asking for percs when I had bottles of oxycontin made them doubt I was abusing otherwise in a dr's eyes I would have been perfectly happy with oc. Anyway chewing teh Oc made me feel liek a total loser and I didn't want to do it again and besides it wasn't all that yet I was afraid to chew an 80mg so I just chewed 3 20's. I wish it wasn't illegal to sell oxycontin because I am sure I could make a fortune right now with all these bottles. I am not taking them ever again. So now my question to saveyourself, did you just detox cold turkey from how much oc? I think you did do it cold turkey and it really seems that I will ikley end up doing it myself I am not really good at tapering. I am just dreading it because I take so much again I feel like I will feel like death cold turkey and I probably will. I have an appointment on teh 29th with an addictionologist so I am hoping he will wean me with bup or methadone for a week or so just to make it easier. That has worked for me before. anyway as I said chewing the oc made me feel like such a loser that today I am really disgusted with myself for letting this problem get so out of control. I think I have finally reached rock bottom and I need to get off this **** once and for all. Unfortunately I have such horrid pain that I am going to need one good antidepressant to be able to live this way. I know I can do it though, living with teh pain will motivate me to seek help and other treatments for teh pain and quit letting my Dr tell me that there is no treatment or cure. There has to be something that can help or at least make it better. Anyway I have to tell you that I am so damn proud of you for sticking this out! I know how sick you were and you sound like you are doing so much better. I am so so so proud of you and I know your family must be so happy as well. Keep up teh great work and strength!!!!
Jen

[rainman]

I was hoping one of you could give me some information on Ultracet. I am finishing day #7 of cold turkey w/d from MS Contin (morphine). I am holding up OK except for the body aches and lack of energy. I have been taking Darvocet to help with the aches but I only have a couple of days worth left. I do have several sample packages of Ultracet that were given to my wife for headaches. I have never taken Ultracet. How does it compare to Darvocet. I also take a small amount of Paxil (anti-anxiety med)daily. I started out at 20mg and then dropped to 10mg and now only take one half of a 10mg in the morning. To tell the truth, I don't think it even effects me. I guess I wonder if there is anyone who is on Paxil and has had cause to use Ultracet? If it compares to Darvocet I guess I should be OK to take it. I am not worried about addiction to the Ultracet because I only have 2 or 3 days worth. I just know that I will have some times later in the week, after I am out of Darvocet, that I will need something for the aches and cramping legs. I would love any info any of you could provide. Thanks for all of your support on this site. I have learned so much from all of you on how to handle this experience. I will be forever grateful. Hope to hear from you soon. God Bless.

[saveyourself]

Greetings,

oxic/percsnoma, How are you brother?  Yeah I am still clean and back in the recovery process of NA. I understand what your saying about oxy's being highly concentrated percs.  Same drug, more bang for the buck, so to say.  

However, I am only basing my opinions on the reality of my WD's from oxy.  Like cigarettes, it is the nicotine that hooks you, however, there are over a 100 additves, (chemicals) to enhance the addiction to those.  Did you see the Russell Crowe , Al Pacino movie about that industry? Forgot the name of it.

I am sure the drug companies are much more regulated and honest, I just got to tell from my experiance, oxy WD is the closest thing to heroin or methadone WD I have ever experianced.  Only one addicts opinon. I do believe that to take three years to add a quagulant to stop injection use is very calculated plan.  They (oxy's manufactuer) are in competition for the ILLEGAL mexican brown tar heroin and our new allies the afgans new crop of heroin that is already on the streets of the US.

I read in Time or Newsweek junkies are choosing oxy over heroin because it is cheaper, not to be out done street heroin has never been cheaper and is competing illegal sales of oxy.  Have we lost the drug war or what?  It is all about the money. Am I sounding likr a conspiracy nut, maybe and maybe not.  Thanks for all your support in the early phases of my WD. I will always be grateful to you and the others who helped me so, so much.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[percsnomas]

Fair enough.....certainly the scope of this discussion, is beyond my knowledge, so additional comments would simply be conjecture on my part.


I guess as long as we continue to focus on what we have control of( and not what we don't), we will continue to move forward.

Stay Strong my friend!!

percs

[harlem]

i wish i could tell you more about the ultracet. i got it for my back pain and it turned ugly!! i have never taken anything b/f this and when i ran out of the pills and saw the dr. again, he gave me one rx of soma and one of tyl. w/ codeine... i inhaled those b/c they too made me feel good. it was all news to me that this is given to help w/ other withdrawals. it blows my mind b/c i have suffered the addiction for 2 years now w/ these horrible pills and yet they are given to help people withdraw from more serious meds.... all i can say is that i will be thinking about you (and everyone here) and praying for a full recovery w/ the littlest amount of pain as possible.

[saveyourself]

Hey Girl,

REad your post, the way I CT doesn't make it right for you.  See your addictionoligist today, be careful with the methadone solution, that is what she will reccomend, you mentioned you have been down that path before.  You know how easy it is to use that longer than detox, please be careful.

I am also going to physical therapy and have begun working out the last few weeks which has been a big help.  Taking walks anything to get this body back on the path to good health.

Good luck today and let us know how you are doing.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[rainman]

Thanks so much for the information and the prayers. That is what makes this such a great site! I have confidence that I will make it! God Bless!

[J. E. W.]

You are so right it is not the pharmises fault!!!! But when your jonsen for your                                                          junk you will blame anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bungee7]

You seem very condesending. At this forum we speak our mind and voice our opinions and don't expect or deserve scrutiny from anybody. We all support each other here...myself as well as almost eveybody here has a major problem with addiction to prescription drugs. We all have diffrent opinions and views and all are respectful of each others feelings, so don't shoot down anybodies comments or call anybody here ignorant---because we all just speak from personal experiences.

-Anthony

[Rx]

>>>From the doc's who make you wait 2 or 3 hrs after a scheduled appointment, from the pharmacists who have the power and failed med school,<<<

I am a pharmacist and take offense at your comment. I graduated valedictorian and had absolutely no intention of going to med school. I have worked retail pharmacy before and can honestly say that people haven't the slightest clue what retail pharmacists have to deal with.

>>>have bad attitudes and rudeness to those in geniune need of meds for ailments<<<

I imagine that you've had problems getting your meds before. Believe me, they would love to give you your meds just to get rid of you, if there wasn't a real problem with doing so.

>>>and finally the drug companies who are making every drug they come out with have some addictive and WD side effect to them to keep people hooked.<<<

lol, you are truly ignorant.

[oxic]

Hey Welcome here RX; always can use more knowledgeable people.
When you are reading posts here, I'm sure you can relate to many, and the ones that **** you off, just skip over.

As you found a site that is addiction related, and you work in the profession, are you looking for something in particular??
All kinds of support here, if that is what you need.

Post more(if you like)

Percs No More

[Rx]

Yes, saveyourself is voicing his opinion that pharmacists are rude med school failures and I'm simply voicing my opinion that this is not true. You say don't call people ignorant b/c they're only speaking from their personal experiences? Go back and look at what my comment about ignorance was directed at. I don't think saveyourself has personal experience in developing drugs for drug companies. I have said nothing that wasn't unwarranted. How would you feel if someone who has no clue about your profession shot it down with ridiculous stereotypes and accusations? You are contradicting yourself, you are defending a judgemental person by telling me not to be judgemental.

oxic, thanks for the welcome. Although I usually ignore such comments, I felt the need to respond here.

[Kat49]

I felt the need to respond to this thread even though I'm on another one.  I have great respect for pharmacists and the high amount of education they have had to work at to get where they are!  However, everyone in every profession (especially doctors, lawyers, ANYONE) who deals with the public can have their "bad" day.  We're all entitled to it.  But, I have encountered some extraordinarily RUDE pharmacists who could have quietly called me over and told me they felt my dependence on a certain migraine med was getting too much or maybe I should try to find something else.  Yes, 2 have done that very thing!  God bless them, because that's what catapulted me into reality that I need to get off the fiorinal and fast!  But, to make a complete ASS out of me while 23 people were in 4 lines at a local CVS and RiteAid and Pharmor pharmacies and LOUDLY inform me (the whole store heard) "what are you doin' - eating these like candy"?  Also, I have been lied to and told "your insurance won't cover this at this time, come back next week".  A LIE!!!  I called the insurance company and they said "of course we will" and then they kept the script and said "oh, it's in the file so we'll give it to you in 10 days" when I asked for it back!  That's pure bullshit!!!  My doctor physically went in (he's next door) and drilled the pharmacist a new a---hole! So, there are really caring ones who I admire greatly and some bad ones.  I don't think it's the pharmacists job to  out and out LIE!  Oh, and I've been told "we're out of fiorinal and can't get it until next week" when my friend got hers filled that nite.  So, I think you have to understand that we are addicts and need help - not humiliation!  You don't have to have a Phd in psychology to figure out that by cutting off someone with a legitimate script, you're putting them in great danger: withdrawal could set in, they could go to the "streets" to buy the drug and worst of all, just feel worse about themselves than they already do.  As far as the drug companies - I have no idea about research & development of drugs and waiting in docs' offices for a long time - well, so many patients are with the docs now and they go in for 1 thing and end up talking about 12!  Don't take offense, I'm sure you're one of the "good guys" it's just that alot of us have had some humiliating experiences we'd like to forget.  Kat

[Rx]

I'm sorry to hear that you were humiliated in front of a bunch of people. That pharmacist was way out of line... not only was he unprofessional, he was also on the brink of violating patient confidentiality. Unfortunately, I do know a few pharmacists who are rude, but they are very few. The great majority of pharmacists I know are surprisingly tolerant.

One thing I found odd about what you said was the lying and scheming. I have never known any pharmacist to lie about insurance, although some patients may misunderstand and think it's a lie. I'm not saying you were mistaken, and sometimes the insurance company even tells the pharmacy and the pt. two different things. But honestly, pharmacists do everything they can to get insurance to go through in any situation, even for a known addict. We pretty much know our addicts and still give them their meds, still sell syringes to heroin users, etc. although technically we can refuse. The only time we don't do all we can to give ppl their meds is when we suspect that the script is a forgery. I'm thinking that perhaps when the pharmacist wouldn't give you back your script, they might have been trying to buy time b/c they thought it was a forgery. Then when the doc showed up.... oops. Anyways there are a million things that can go wrong to cause complications, esp. with insurance. It's very frustrating for both pharmacist and patient, but until they implement a better system, we'll just have to grin and bear it. Oh and for future reference, a script that hasn't been filled is your property, and by law, they can't refuse to give it back to you. Only after the fill is it theirs. Take care.

[Kat49]

Hope I didn't insult you personally.  This particular pharmacist that lied to me about insurance covering was lying because I called the insurance co. plus the main part: the script hadn't been filled in over 30 days and my insurance says every 17 days for this particular med.  I suspect he really was concerned for my health and felt I was too fiorinal dependent (which I was) and trying to taper on my own.  But, I felt SO humiliated because he and I have a good relationship and he knows the doc is right next door and can check on the script in a heartbeat. He knows that doc's writing as most scripts from him are filled there because of the convenience.  But, it just made me feel so horrible - I can't tell you!  I know you guys put up with a tremendous amount of **** from the public and the insurance is so horrendous to deal with these days my doctors all complain and threaten early retirement!  But, to me, the pharmacist knows FAR MORE than the docs about the meds and I trust them implicitly to ask questions, whereas doctors don't have time to tell you about side-effects and whatnot and you can have some nightmare adverse reactions just because you ate something wrong with a med and the doc never even told you!!!  Have a nice day.  Kat

[JennC]

Hi, I'm not sure if I'm on the right page, but here goes.. I'm 23 years old, and adicted to vicodin(primarily). My mom has been addicted to it for years and I just started taking it with her last year. (Sep 01). It's really hard when she says it's ok to take it to justify quitting. But i'm sick of how I feel when I run out, scared, panicky, and comp-letely focused on how to get more, and how I'm going to feel the next minute. I have been to countless emergency rooms, I could win an oscar for faking pain. NAd recently my mom and I came up with a way to get it from pharmacies. (not too much info about that, I don't want to get caught). Anyway, I'm out right now, and scared. I'm going to try Thomas's recipe. The longest I've been without is four days, I avereage 6-8 vicodin, 5/500mg per day. I've never gotten physical wd's, but mental ones from hell. I feel like I'll never be able to have fun or be fun without it. Thanks for listening, I have no one to talk to. I won't go to a doctor, because I don't want to be flagged as a seeker. If anyone would write me back, I would love to have a friend or two in this with me. Thanks, Jen

[JennC]

Umm, I just wrote a fairly long comment, then scrolled up and saw that a pharmacist is reading this page. I'm a little nervous, and don't feel very comfortable. Is this confidential? Am I able to be honest here? Hey, RX, could you tell me some of the ramifications of prescrption fraud? (The phone-in kind and the written kind) I think I could use a good scare.
JennC

[percsnomas]

Hey Jenn, WELCOME ABOARD!!!
Firstly, you WILL get caught sooner or later; so I'll work with the premise that you will stop the Rx fraud NOW. Besides, I guarentee cold turkey withdrawals in jail are much more harsh, than an at home tapering regime!!!  And although you have not experienced physical withdrawals as of yet,(probably early on in your pill taking, when you quit for a few days), I almost guarentee, they will be coming; to go along with those oh so pleasant mental ones.

Of course you can be honest here; there is no sense lying to yourself or anyone else.  The good news is that your habit size hasn't reached the size of many here (YET), so this would be a great time to get out of this one way trip. I'm not going to preach to you about why; all you have to do is read through all the carnage left by opiate abuse here. Read the desparation that eminates in sooo many posts.  That part is not made up....it is very real.
You are very young and have an entire life ahead of you.

Really give the Recipe a try, and in 3-5 days, you will start to feel so much better(mentally too). My useage started where yours is at many years ago, but it sure didn't end there.  Thankfully, with the help of many people here, I'll reach 5 months off percs on Sunday.

WE ARE HERE FOR YOU

Percs

[JennC]

Thanks, percs and J.E.W. It felt so good to hear from you. It's 3:oo in the afternoon right now, and I haven't had any vicodin since 6:00 this morning. I know that sounds sad, but it's really a long time for me. All my days consist of three hour cycles of two vicodin at a time. I am climbing the walls right now. Seriously, I've been trying all day to get a hold of the guy w/ the vics, hopefully I won't get them. Pray for me to be strong, please.

[percsnomas]

I know exactly what you mean, the second hand seems to go backwards on the clock.  That is the nature of this beast.

I do hope you reconsider, if your contact phones you back. Unfortunately, I can't let you feel my "bottom" that made me turn it around.....that utter sick and tired of being sick and tired feeling; as everybody is different, and people will do what they have to do.
Just seeing that you have only been on these since Sept., it really is a good time(ALTHOUGH I KNOW IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT) to get off. Nobody that I know is immune to tolerance building, and in turn higher and higher doses required to just feel normal. But I have to tell you it is such a perverted normal. Opiates will suck the life right out of you....
I sincerely hope you are one of the persons that doesn't have to find that out for themselves, after a 1yr., 2yr., 5yr., 20 yr.etc of taking them.....they are relentless!

Take Care

[J. E. W.]

I know what your feeling like but you have to want it or you wont stop.Youve made the first step by admitting you have this problem. The next step is to want to live. Because thats what those pills do is drain the life right out of us.. Like you said you worry where your going to get the next batch,how long will they last,do I have enough,and on and on and on. Its no wonder our brains even function at all. All the worrying about a damn pill we do.Ill be praying for you..      J.E.W.

[J. E. W.]

I was exactly where you are 6 days ago. Only I didnt have the nerve to call in scripts or should I say never learned how. THANK GOD!!!!! I to made up pains, even stoled from anyone I could when I couldnt eith buy them or get them. I made up so many stoies I couldnt remember who I had told what. I even found a clinic for awhile that gave them freely.. But inbetween I would go to different E.R,s and get more. So one day I went to clinic and they say Ive been discharged from their care!!! This was the receptionest. The doc. wouldnt even talk to me. Instead of helping me they shut their doors in my face.. Maybe that was good though because it made me realize I had a big problem. Im on day 7 and feel preety good today. It sounds like its a bit harder for you cause of your mothers addiction. But maybe if you take the first step she will follow. The first 4 to 5 days were my hardest Felt like super flu. Lots and lots of hot baths helped alot. Vitamins,lots to drink,and make sure you eat...       God Bless!!! Im here if you need me.    J.E.W.

[JennC]

Thanks, guys. Well, he called back, but it's always a huge ordeal, and eighty percent of the time it doesn't work out. That would definetely be good, but I can't face the disapointment that comes when things fall through. the other day, I called to see if my refill had been approved by my doc for vic, and he denied it. I thought I would pass out, the disappointment was so intense. Am I crazy? I feel bad, I haven't done much responding to anyone, just asking. But I feel like I have nothing to share, since I'm such a mess. My mom wants to do the script thing again. Does anyone huave any stories about getting caught to scare me off?

[JennC]

Does anyone have any advice on how to get the valium recommended by thomas? My doc, and every e.r. doc, says they won't prescribe it because it's too addictive. Are there walk-in clinics?

[Kat49]

I've been just reading your posts about the vicoden addiction and I am also an addict to something else.  But, you are absolutely NUTS to call in a fake script or write one!  The ramifications are tremendous!  It is a felony, when you go in to pick it up, the cops will be there and cuff you in front of everyone and THEN you'll go into withdrawal in JAIL!  You sounded like you were on the 1st step to recovery - hadn't taken your vics for many hours.  Great start!  At 23 you sound like you have more maturity and sense than your mother!  You are so young with a whole life ahead of you and to become addicted to prescription meds could screw up fertility for future pregnancy if you want kids.  Also, having a felony on your record and being labeled an addict for no other reason than to feel high is starting your young life off on the wrong foot.  Your admission that you have a problem is such a MAJOR step in knowing that you have a problem and you are seeking help.  Bless you! I feel so bad for you because if you do conquer the addiction, your mother is in your life for always and she uses it for what? Recreation? That will be something else you'll have to work on just being around her and wanting to be clean and sober.  Sorry, if I sounded like a "mother" because I am and my son is your age!  You are probably a lovely girl caught in something you had no idea would affect you in this way: addiction.  Please talk to everyone because these people are INCREDIBLE and more helpful and supportive than most doctors.  Take care and lots of hugs!Kat

[Rx]

JennC, I hope you're pulling through ok. Please do not attempt to call in or write a fake script. It's much harder to pull off than you realize. Usually if it's a changed quantity, I will go ahead and fill it for the original quantity (verified by the doc). If the pt. asks about it, I will tell them the doc said #__ or call the cops, your choice. But, I have known a pharmacist who called the cops when a pt. changed their quantity of percs from #10 to #16. That man was handcuffed right in the store.... for trying to get 6 extra tablets.

Also, when someone attempts such things, the authorites fax all the local pharmacies a complete description of the incident and the suspect, making it much easier for you to get caught. Please don't try it, it's not worth it.

[J. E. W.]

What rx is saying is true. I remember my boyfriend 2yrs. ago had rx. for 8 vics from er. and he added ES to it. when he went to fill it after about 15 mins. police came and handcuffed him in front of everyone and off to jail he went. And its a felony charge on top of that.And that was just for writting ES ..So please dont even think about it.               J.E.W.

[JennC]

Thanks, you guys. reading that stuff was a huge wake-up call. I've never even had a speeding taicket, and the idea of comitting a felony scares the **** out of me. Rx, it was a lot more than just altering an existing script, it was my mom calling impersonating a doc, giving a fake name, address, etc, and having me pick them up for her, then giving me a few for my effort. I refused to do it today, and when she went in, they refused to give it to her, saying there was an invalid doctor pnone number, and then she called two other pharmacies and got them. I'm scared for her, and me too! The fact that I've picked them up twice in the last two weeks makes me so scared, I feel like the cops will knock on the door or come into my office any minute! I will never do that again, you guys are so right. Thank you so much, you probably just saved my life, because I'd rather die than be arrested. This is the most wonderful place in the world. Every time someone posts a comment to me I feel so special, and it gives me so much strength. Thank you.

[JennC]

Hey, Kat49, what did you mean when you said I might have trouble with future pregnancy? I had no idea it would affect that! One of my goals in life is to have kids!

[Kat49]

Jenn, there are some drugs that, if abused for long periods of time, can affect your menstrual cycle right up to really making you unable to conceive because your body is so screwed up.  I'm not educated in the medical field, but when I was "hooked" on my migraine medication and desperately wanted to go off it, I started going to the book store and library and looking at medical books about drugs.  I know that what I was on - fiorinal - is perfectly safe UNLESS ABUSED.  I stopped getting my period for 8 months and with the help of self-induced hormones from my OB/BYN got it back.  Then, I can't figure out how crack addicts and heroin addicts on the streets get pregnant one after the other, either!!  So, I don't know about vicoden. Maybe Rx will tell you that info because he knows all that stuff.  Just don't abuse ANYTHING and you'll be fine.  About your mother: she needs more help than anyone on this forum!  Not only does she have a drug dependence, she's USING YOU as a "runner" like some drug dealer! And she's YOUR MOTHER!!! She will get caught, trust me.  I read too much of those stories in the paper - but not involving their own children!  You just stay in touch with us and we'll get you through the bumps in the road especially if and when when she's busted.  Stay off the drugs! Love, Kat  xxxxoooo

[wannastop]

I just wanted to let everyone know that today is 5 days for me without using!!  After at least 7+ years of using vicodine or anything else I could get my hands on, maybe more, I just dont remember,  I had a horrible first 3 days but I feel SOOOOOOO much better today, and from here it'll get easier, I hope.  But I want to thank everyone in here, without all of you I know I would not have made it this far.  I know it's still going to be a battle,  and I still have a way to go, but I know I can do it, especially after the w/d I went through I'll never forget that!!  I kept comming back here every hour to read more and more just to get me through those rotten w/ds.  I NEVER want to do that again!!  So thank you ALL, you all are a blessing!!!!  


wannastop

[harlem]

congratulations.... you are doing so well. something that helps me-- take each day as a series of 3 parts. almost like your breakfast, lunch and dinner. the hours b/f noon, the hours from noon-4 and then the rest of your day until nightfall. looking into the future is overwhelming and scary. i tell my husband this (who has no addiction at all- just a load of stress on his shoulders from work, etc...) just to alleviate some of his tension and anxiety that tomorrow may bring. i have been "clean" from pills for 8 days and feel great. i have taken to doing pilates or some form of exercise each day even if only for 10 minutes! i just think there are so many people out there who are no where near facing their demons.... and you have done so and kept them off your back for some time. you will do it today and tomorrow and again after that and it will one day come to you in the form of a distant memory... good luck every hour and continue being strong. you deserve each day that comes to you!

[Vicqueennomore]

I am on day 14 from a 12-14 7.5 vics and feel sometimes consumed with my recovery and overwhelmed that I will not feel normal, whatever that is, again. I know with time everything gets better but when? Granted I do feel better than I did the first few days, I think that is thanks to the Thomas recp,but the lack of motovation is unreal. I want that carefree, funloving person that I feel like I was when I was using. I am afraid that I don't really know the "real" me anymore.

[wannastop]

Thank you for your wise words, I have actually done that with my days, break them up that is.  It helps, even when I need it the most.  What amazes me is how much better my personal life is, I can do things and I want to do things, I'm not worried about my next fix!!  I like this more and more as time goes on, I wish I would have done this years ago. An the great thing is everyday will get better and better!!  Good luck to everyone!!!!


wannastop

[harlem]

The words you spoke are so true. i am consumed daily w/ thoughts of "how did i act/feel/think" b/f i was on the pills? I am always thinking I felt better and had better days when i was on. you know, it is funny b/c i am starting to see now that even in my worst hour... i am better right now off the pills than i ever was on. when i was on, i was literally consumed every hour w/ knowing how many more pills i had, how i was gonna get the next batch and when the hell i was gonna break down and not be able to do it anymore! i have to be honest- it is really a struggle for me in the middle of the week when i go to work (i only work 2 days- for an oncologist) b/c i jet right to the sample closet to see if any more pills have been dropped off. it is so sad but it is true. then i realize that i have come almost 2 weeks w/out taking anything, and i feel better now than i can bet i felt on my best day w/ the pills. forgive me for babbling- it's easy to do here but i thought i'd comment and say i feel a lot like you do and just to let you know you are never alone. even when you log off and go about your day- there are so many millions like you (and I) who are fighting the demons within.... and winning.... keep it up!

[Vicqueennomore]

Thanks for the posting, it does help to come here. Wow, if I had even the slightest access to pills at anytime I am not sure I would be strong enough to resist. I do not ever, ever, ever, ever go thru what I went thru w/d and up to now but my addictive inner self wouldn't think that way. You are my new hero, please stay clean, don't go to the sample closet. You will just have to go thru this again and again and again.
Keep strong and keep posting!!

[Kat49]

Jenn, haven't heard from you in a couple days and am very concerned for you.  Please post and let us know how you're doing.Love, Kat

[harlem]

Hey- just thought i'd say thank you for what you posted. it means a lot to have someone tell me i am strong. it is a hard thing going to work (actually i am heading there now) knowing what lies ahead. i went thru really messed up means to get my pills. going to the sample closet always seemed to prove the easiest and most effective way to gain a high- until i wiped it out of all meds! simple fact- i have to keep the demons at bay and keep telling myself over and over that once i take that ONE pill- this is all gonna start again. it really means a lot to hear from someone that i need to stay strong.

[Vicqueennomore]

ONE DAT AT A TIME!! Keep strong today!!
1 little demon and you will go thru it all again...that's what keeps me going into day 16.
I can't remember how long into recovery you are, how long?
Just wondering if we will celebrate our anniversary together or not?
Peace today!!
Tammy

[JennC]

Hi, I'm ok, thanks for asking, that makes me feel so good. I haven't written in a couple of days because I feel that I shouldn't keep asking questions without giving replies to other people, and I'm working up the courage to do that. Things haven't been good. I've picked up two more prescriptions for my mom, against my better judgment. She's sweetened the pot by splitting the amount with me, so it's kinda hard to say no. Plus, I am moving back in with her and renting the top floor of the house while I finish college, so it'll be even more tempting. I really want to try going to meetings, but I can't find one in a good part of town. I know this sounds snobbish, but I feel like if I go to a meeting in the "ghetto" I won't be able to realte to the people as much, and won't feel like I really have a problem. Does that make sense? I'm really not stuck up! I know we're all addicts, but I'm still dealing with the denial stage of this. This website has been wonderful, but it has also make me face some tough realizations about my position. I'm getting there, though.
How are you doing with everything? How's life in general? I believe you mentioned you have a son about my age? What's he like? Thanks again for the concern, I really appreciate it.

[Blackbelt]

Thanks for wanting to know. I don't know all the answers but know a lot for such abacksliding idiot. I take that back but you get my drift. Tammy it's Jim not Dan .Easy mistake Ni-dan is arank in martial arts.
First Bad things happen to good people and I think you qualify but really none of us are good.Your uncle didn't know the truth--80% of the CHRISTIANS don't. God says ,"my people perish for lack of knowledge." Short version of what I think is truth. We fell because of Adam and Eve. I personally think fruit refers to sex act. I know you say with whom. In Gen. the bible says the serpent was the most subtle of all animals and could communicate with man.Satan got into him and beguiled Eve. Then We as a race fell. The serpent was not a snake because why would God curse a snake to crawl on it's belly. Off the subject.
  Adam was given the world by God so Adam had the right to give it away which he did to Satan, who you are right had been thrown out of Heaven. God had to redeem us through a sinless man with pure blood(which I don't understand) But I do know this was done By Jesus who was born of pure blood. We are all born with the tainted blood of Adam or Satan. Satan violated the rules by taking a sinless man into hell. This was our salvation and gave God the right to take it back. That's why Jesus said,"IT IS FINISHED>"
  Satan is still the prince of the earth but this will be taken away soon. Thank God.
  Back to you, Sexual abuse is demonic, watch Joyce Meyers on Christian TV , so was she and understands.
  A tragedy about your son, but he is in heaven. He could have grown up and been a crackhead headed to hell.
  Sorry about the cheating spouse ,That hurts like a *****. I was one in 1st marriage, caused lots of pain on both sides.
What goes around comes around Second wife, a little honey 10 years younger gave me 4 wonderful years and a great son who she took whe feeling of love for me was gone. I had found Jesus 2 or 3 years earlier and couldn't imagine God letting this happen. Son is 27 saved and my best buddy other 3 by 1st also in same boat. None druggies like Pop,praise God.
  God gave me a new wife 7 years after last breakup. I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world. Could not would not cheat on her. 18 years is a miracle Loved women, still do but keep it home.
  Even with a great wife I still took the demons to make life better. It worked out the opposite. I've told her and she told me if it doesn't work this tome it's BYE,BYE. Can't lose her.
Pills have made me settle for mediocrity while greatness is in me. Sorry for the lenght,I know lots more this forum probably doesn't want to read or schroll past.
Oh yes, Paul told God 3 times that a demon was bothering him.God would not take it away He said it kept him humble. No one is perfect except if we were we'd get so proud no one could stand being around us--And I wouldn't be writing you now. I can't convince you the truth   It has to be The Holy Spirit. Forgive everyone who has wronged you, even God if you feel that. If you don't forgive He can't forgive you. You can forgive right where you are, you don't have to go to the person. You may not FEEL like you have forgiven but you have. Feelings can decieve you . all us pillheads should know that.
    God Bless,
       B'Belt   Don't take anything I've said as truth if it's not in the bible.

[Vicqueennomore]

Jim (sorry for the misunderstanding on your name) Not real versed in matial arts....
Anyway,
tears filled the eyes again so I know I am getting there...wanting to let Him in....
I have to go pick up 2 little boys from school because here it is about 10 below zero out and it's too cold for them to walk home.
I will be on later like in about an hour or so....
I still want to chat about this...
Thank you for taking the time for me...
Tammy

[Blackbelt]

Wife came in awhile ago and said, are you still on that site?I said very nicely, had you rather me be on pills? My best friend who is a 9th degree blackbelt wrote a very loving letter but said I'd never be off or I would had already been off. I told him God had me where I am for a reason. Maybe that one reason is you, Tammy and I'll bet your two sons follow Mama. We're almost to the end of time as we know it. Read NEW WORLD Coming by Hal Lindsey written over 25 years ago. It explaines the book of Revelation.
  Somewhere in the bible it talks about the Hounds of Heaven being after someone. Thank God they are after Tammy.
     B'Belt

[J. E. W.]

Good to here from you hon. Youll get there just by being here you know that its wrong in your heart. One day youll wake up or hit rock bottom and then youll be ready. dont beat yourself up. but do realize it will lead to destuction. especialy youve got to quit the rx. fraud. Or your going to end up with a record haning over your head. Maybe thats what its going to take for both you and your mother..I sure wouldnt want to detox in jail. Take care hon.      God Bless..       J.E.W.

[Kat49]

Hi Sweetie!  I'm so relieved to hear from you!  All sorts of things were going through my mind like: did you get busted, etc. Jenn, the first thing you have got to realize is that the Rx thing is SO BAD and at some point you're going to get caught! The only way the police would give you any kind of break would be if you're a minor picking up drugs for mommie!  But, you're 23 and a college student and you will get no mercy!  And your mother, well, she'll get the book thrown at her and no matter what I'm thinking of her as a mother right now, she's still your mother and you don't want her to go to jail!  Moving in with her is so disheartening for me to hear because you're going to be even more in the thick of this mess!  You must listen to all of us on this forum - especially read about the ones who've been actually busted!  Some have been given liency and others spent time in jail detoxing in horrible conditions!  If your mother is "sweetening the pot" as you say, she is certainly using you and her role as a mother has gone out the window!!!!!  She is also a drug addict and the mind doesn't think rationally under the influence either.  But, the fact that you looked up this forum tells me you're not 100% in denial and are in the beginning stages of seeking help. And you bite your tongue girl when you say you feel bad about posting because all's you have is questions!!!!! That's what we're all here for - ASK AWAY!!! You asked about my son who's your age - he's at UCLA Medical School studying to become a neuropsychiatrist in research. Right now, he's working at a private hospital in the LA area with California's worst cases of child sexual abuse.  It's very hard on him sometimes only because he's read the past case histories and their backrounds are so SICK that they've never had a fair chance since birth.  Most of their parents are dead or in jail from drug/abuse charges.  If you were 10 yrs. younger your mother would be in jail for child abuse because that's what she's doing to YOU!!! Helping your habit along to serve her purpose is abuse any way you look at it.  My other son is 19 and is here in the Phila. area going to Univ. of Penn to be a computer engineer.  So, I must go to work now.  You have a good day and keep in touch with everyone. They all have their own words of wisdom and experience and you may have a breakthrough that will end this nightmare for you.  Hugs xxxxxxxx  Kat

[Blackbelt]

Just went back and read afew of your posts and was most impressed.You mention Demons many times. There is only one way to fight them. Most people don't know they are Satan's messangers or where they came from. They are not fallen angels so without bodies they need a host ,so to speak, us. You know about the spiritual bad side --look to the Good God side. Most of Jesus's life was casting out demons--Remember when they asked His permission to go into the hogs. They needed a host. Many times I've ridded myself of them and then invited MORE back in. That's why it's worse ever time. Sweep that house clean and keep it clean(from some verse) And yes Christians can and do have demons>paul who wrote most of the new testament had one that kept bothering him and admits it.
  You are going to stay clean and have eternal victory. We're all going to die. This life ain't nothing. I've made it worse by not totally committing to God. You don't have to be a fanatic or even go to church(but it helps) The whole thing-Battle for our souls is like a Star Wars fairytail but it's true. Seek Seek!
  You are close baby.
    B'belt  Ni-Dan if you care

[Vicqueennomore]

Dan..yes I do care.
At a point in my life that I lost my son I had actually read the bible, almost from front to back, looking for answers as to why bad things happen to me (sexual abuse, death of son, husband cheating at the time....), not looking for pity, just stating why I was looking for answers. I even asked a Rev. Unc of mine about the part where it says that God casts satan out of the heavens and made earth his domain then in all technical terms wouldn't we be in hell right now. He had such a lame answer of well it may seem that way sometimes but it's not. Not sure why that sticks in my head but I found it to be lame and kind of got turned off of the whole looking to God for answers. It just seemed like something a fortune cookie would say if it said "Confusious say one who touch fire will get burned".
Just curious though because most of the drugs and alcohol I did after I read the bible depleated my memory of it's contents, what was Paul's demon that he was fighting or should I say in what form did it appear as?
Tammy

[Rex1]

Just to add to what BBelt said, defiling the body, no matter if is sex, drugs, or whatever, I felt, was the thing that KEPT ME from a better relationship with God.

Once the drugs go, I think He is more accessible, He takes a step toward you, if that makes sense, waiting to see what you will do.

He's right - no one will force you to believe. Salvation is a "gift". You cannot get a gift from someone unless you accept it.

Many people, I am sure here on this forum and in the world, just do not believe the story, because they have no proof. Addicts especially like that proof concept - "If I take this pill, guaranteed, in like 20 minutes, I will feel the feeling"
It may be helpful to look at the book "The case for Christ by lee STrobel. It is about a search that ended in rock-solid proof.

See, I think many people spend about a day or so looking and asking, and when they dont get a fiery explosion in the sky, or a voice that sounds like Charleton Heston Inside a burning bush, they give up on God.

In my experience, God always moves slower than we would like, but he always delivers more than we ask for. We ask for a baloon, he delivers a carnival!

My final point is I accept that I dont understand, and thats hard, esp for Americans, who have been told we, on our own can do all! If I did understand, I would be God. His ways are not our ways. A day to the Lord is like a thousand years it says in the Book.

Seek Him. Pray. He guarantees that when you get closer to Him, he gets closer to you. I am starting to think that cant happen when we are on drugs, or have major unresolved sin in our lives.

Grace - undeserved kindness - is God's MO.

Rex

[Blackbelt]

Tag Team--Told you. Holy Spirit is moving.
Once again I'm so like you ,saved,guilty of premeditated backsliding. Never,never thought I could give up other women,and didn't want to but I did.  Your statement to Tammy about these things keeping us from God reminded me of what Billy Gramham once said."we have a pipeline to God and those sinful things clog it up."
  Do you remember the joy of your salvation ? Best high I ever had. As King David said ,Dear Lord please restore to Jim and Rex the joy of our salvation.  Peace my brother I'll meet you in the NEW Jeruselum. Not Spelled right but we'll be there.
   B'Belt

[J. E. W.]

Dito.Great posts. Couldnt of said it better!!!!!!                God Bless...       J.E.W>

[FINISHED!!]

The word FAITH is just that. Faith. Knowing or believing without proof. If God himself came down & started performing miracles, everybody would believe. There is a price for eternal peace in the praises of Heaven. Blind Faith. Knowing in your heart without the "Scientific Proof" that too many seek.

FINISHED!!

[Vicqueennomore]

Well said. FAITH is the key...lots for Tammy to think about...thanks you guys for enlightening me to the spirtual guidance I am seeking....

[freezing]

I've done the Thomas recipe.  The key is taking the L-tyrosine on an empty stomach, using the b6 to transport it through the brain lining.  If you have signigicant protein levels in your blood, the protein will compete against the L-tyrosine, rendering it inneffective.  When taken properly, it will boost your energy like speed.  If you take to much, you will get way tweeked, like too much adderal or similar, and get way anxious and feel bad.  8 days is great.  Consult a doctor about ssri's or ad's for impending depression, or hopefully, you;ll get lucky and not suffer through that long misery post detox.
Good luck.  

Anyone with methadone w/d  and/or freezing symptoms, and/or fingernail on chalkboard sensations in back from detox, please email me with insights at ***@****.
Thanks, and well wishes.  I am now not clean, albeit at low level prescription of oxy.  It's been over four months since methadone detox, 100mg, and I am still way suffering. thanks. -freezing

[Kat49]

Jenn, where have you been?  Concerned about you and hope you're doing OK.  Don't worry if all's you can do is ask questions!  Just post and tell us if you're OK.   Love, Kat

[DSD]

Hi everyone. What is the Thomas Recipe I have read about here? Does anyone know specifically what it is and what it is supposed to do?  I am guessing there are many readers that would like to know besides me - so would someone please post more info on it.
Thank you