Long term valium use

[Nickmbb]

Thank you for your time. I have been taking 8mg of valium daily, prescribed for a lower back muscle spasm problem, for about 5 years. (I had 2 herniated disks L4-5, L5-S1) and currently, in my neck, a bulge at C6-7. My question is, can someone start feeling withdraw symptoms if ones current dose has become ineffective? I seem to be having ethreal moments (not pleasent) and more nervousness that seems to be increasing in the past few months. I don't know if these feeling are a result of my current neck disk problem, or if my body is requesting more valium? My Doctor does not want me to stop the current dose until i resolve my disk problem through PT, but he also does not want me to increase the dose.

[Durty]

Welcome to the forum. I don't have much experience with valium but if your maintaining a regular steady dose it would seem you would just build a tolerance up but not WD's.  Could also be reaction to the valium.  I'm sure others will give you good feedback.



* HIJACK:  since I can never get a question need to jump in here.

Have a question on tylenol & liver damage.  I've been an addict on and off for past 2 years since complications & nerve damage from heart catherazation plus arthitis.  Right now I'm inthe tapper mode once again.  



My fear is any damage I may have done/doing to my liver.  From what I have read 4000mg = 4grams is getting into the damage/danger point.  Not that anything less is good for it either. When I was really abusing the Hydro/tylenol I was getting in the 8000mg a day range.  Can anyone shed some light on this for me.  Some research I did said it helps to take L-cystiene or another called (sp?) N-achencyestiene to heal/protect the liver.  These happen to be in the store right next to the L-trosine!  How convenient.



Thanks everyone.  God bless.   Durty

[kstuebin]

Tolerance to any benzodiapine, which valium is, does develop over time and does cause withdrawl symptoms. It means you need more of the drug. What you describe are very mild withdrawl symptoms and indicate you are developing tolerance for your present dose which incidentally is a very small amount.  Your doc is right to advise you not to increase your dose despite this.  I am addicted to Xanax, another benzo, and got that way through a prescription and following a doctor's advice. If I were you, I would tell the doctor you are no longer comfortable taking an addictive drug to which you are developing tolerance and to give you something else.  I don't believe for one minute valium is the only thing you can take for your problem. I have learned through painful experince that these docs are completely in the dark about how addictive benzos are. Your symptoms are only going to get worse.  Do you like them now?  You'll like them even better when they increase. Get out while you can.  Hell is just around the corner.

[AnnieS]

Can anyone tel me if they are expierencing any technical difficulty? My last three post have not shown up??!! Annie

[AnnieS]

I have tried three times to write to you about your leg cramps. I had really bad arm cramps. Not really cramps but a constant tension running up and down for hours. I went crazy and got some zanax and trazidone to sleep. Also used The vitimin therapy. The good news is the longer I kept the opiates out of my system the easier the pain got and now after 91 days I am pain free. I consider myself lucky and pray for all of us. Especially those of you who have to deal with cronic pain. I pray for all of us to find some peace. Keep doing the best y ou can. eyery day it's gets a little harder, then all of a sudden it's gets a little easier. Don't give up the fight! Love to all, annie

[Telby]

91 days!  Wow, tell us more - when did it get better and how did you do it?  Telby

[AnnieS]

I have been on and off this board for awhile so some of you might already know most of the story. Im am 49 almost 50 and have been crossed addicted for the past 20 years. I started drinking at a young age and then I went to school for art. We all thought Dali and Timothy Leary were our heros. It just spins from  there. I first became addicted to speed.paying my way through college I worked the graveyard shifts so I needed the speed to get to school. Hooked up with the opiates to come down from the speed and I'm sure you can fill in the rest. I was clean for 8 years after many detox and rehab stints, The way I stayed clean was through working a rigid program through AA &NA. I could not have done it without the fellowship. I went out again last year after I had tooth surgery and my boyfriend had heart surgery(he's is also an addict) I started with vicoden he with oxycontin. Before you knew it we were both back on the road to hell. I met him when we were both clean so the relapse was bad for both of us. I got hooked so fast on oxy's that I couldn't believe it. I did a detox and then did Thomas's vitimin therapy. I also went to a addiction Dr, who put me on Rivia. Its a narcotic antaginst which makes uou VERY B> and others helped me keep my head straight through that. He isn't into the major throws yet but watching him all messed up has also kept me clean. It's amasing how disgusting some one thats using looks when you're on the other side. I'll be fifty in March and I don't want to be in that place ever again. I take trazidone to sleep and go to meetings and pray alot. I do it sometimes a day at a time , sometimes a minute at a time. It's hard but the peaceful feeling is better than the high ever was. I pray for all of us addicts and am not trying to push anything on anyone . I am just trying to answer your question an how I did it. What ever works for each individual is the best. We can all only do the best we can, and be proud of yourself each day you do it no matter how you do it. Relapse was the hardest thing for me. I also think we put too much into the amount of time we have clean. 8 days or 8 years or 8 minutes, it's just not using, not the amount of time . Stay strong and think of good things that will happen when that demon has lost his control of you. Peace and Love, Annie

[skipper]

annies:

after being in two 12-step programs i managed to do a 17 year

strech of clean time. (this was before trouble with my neck.) i'm

in complete agreement with you about the "clean time" stuff. i've

always thought about "clean time" on a day at a time perspective.

i got out of bed at 6:45 this morning. if you got up before me and

didn't pick up, then you've been clean longer than i have!



keep an angel on your shoulder

kip

[AnnieS]

This board has bee acting weird. I tried to post back telling you that you beat me today because I slept in till 10. I am so exhausted any more. My boy friends relaspe had drained me. I am so sick of the addicts attitude, lies, excuses, moaning , groaning that I am giving up for awhile. He has to do it on his own. I am feeling too good about myself to let him get me so depressed. It's really hard to let go but some times we have to step back. I'll try this again. I'm an my way to a meeting so I'll try and catch up tomorrow. Peace and Love, Annie

I also wanted to say that there were some sentences missing from the last post. Especially that Revia makes you very sick if you use it and pick up. And that I found alot of help from you J>B> and everyone else on this sight. Thank you all!!!

[OxyDout]

hey guys, didn't get one wink of sleep last night, I took a couple of benedryl they make me real drowsy but nothing helps with my leg, I feel like **** this morning, wish me luck!!!haha, hope you all are doing well, annies thank you for your stories, I need to here that I"m not the only one, hope all is well, talk to you soon.



GWH

[fairlight123]

Hi,



Don't know if you saw my other post regarding restless leg syndrome, but it's a real syndrome and may not have anything to do with your withdrawal/addiction.  They even have a restless leg sydndrome foundation.



I urge you to ask your dr. about it, or just research it on the web.



Keep strong.

[AnnieS]

Hi All, GWH I know what you mean, the thrashing etc. Just remember what I said about how it does get easier eventually. It's so fricking hard at first that what anyone tells you you think you'll never be able to do it. But you can, I have faith in you. If the Benedral doesn't help you sleep try some Tylenol PM. It might help the pain and it does have a non addictive sleeping agent. I feel your pain and will pray for you today. Keep up the fight, it will be worth it in the long run. Your doing the best you can which is great. I will post later, I'm trying my hardest to get some work done. I'm having a ruff time today also.....Later, Annie

[OxyDout]

thank you both for your comments, its been rough......fairlight I appreciate the comment, however, the restless leg is definitely due to the drug addiction, when I have stopped previously it went away, and whenever I need a fix it comes right back........just need to have the will............. wish you all luck, gotta go.



GWH

[OxyDout]

god help me........this restless leg syndrome is awful, I deal with it pretty well during the day, but when I go to bed, its "off to the races" this sucks, but like I said, atleast I can laugh at myself...........I hope everyone is doing well......sober or not sober......keep up the good work, talk to you all later.



GWH

[skipper]

GWH:

words can not express how happy it makes me to know you are still with us! as far as the restless legs (don't you think that term understates the malady?) go...hang in there, it will get beter. have you given any thought to trying kloopin? it sure seems to help me, even though i will not take it on a regular basis. anyhow, justr wanted to let you know my thoughts are with you and the rest of your forum brothers and sisters.

keep an angel on your shoulder

kip

[AnnieS]

Hey Buddy, I know how bad that pain is. Did you try the Tylenol PM? Just hang in there, remember it Will go away and you pain will be gone for good. I'm so proud of you for hanging in!!!!!!!!!!!We all Love you! Peace ,annie

[OxyDout]

hey guys thanks for the help through all of this, I have used tylenol pm, and benadryl, both made me very drousy, but didn't really help, I would like to try klonopin, (sp) but I'm going to have to buy it from some kid for 2 bucks a piece, not sure if I will do that.  However, I have taken ridalin once or twice, my brother gave it to me, doesn't make me feel ANYTHING, however It has helped with my concentration at work, (don't worry, not snorting it or taking high mg, hahaha)I have only taken it once or twice, but it doesn't do anything..... so I don't know, i guess I have to just suck it up a couple more days and go from there, hopefully it will get better, it has been over a month now that I have taken enough of any narcotic to get high, with the exception of the 40mg I took for the pain, so I'm very much getting used to living without it!!! which is great, its just at night when I go to bed THEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE, haha, its awful, but its my own fault. Well, thanks again, and keep posting!!!!! it really helps me, hope all is well.  



P.S - I wonder if the angel hangs on for dear life when I kick and scream all night.......



GWH

[AnnieS]

That pain will go away eventually....Your doing fantastic. The harder is is the easier it gets. Do you have a Dr. that can prescribe  sleeping pills. I take Trazidone and it really knocks me out (only 50mg) and I'm not all drowsy the next day. The lack of sleep is really hard on the body and the head. The thrashing nights really blew my mind. That's why I took zanax. You just have to be careful because it's addictive. I don't like it much, but it does help with the panic and restlessness. Hang in there you've got another day under your belt. Just think how good it will be when youuu won't have all this **** to deal with. It's right around the corner. I'll say a special prayer for you tonight. Peace, Annie

[OxyDout]

thank you both sooooooo much, its funny, my leg is still awful at night, but its a lot better, before it used to happen around 8:30pm and I couldn't even go out!!! now I have little episodes, maybe around 10pm, its like my body is saying "come on, where are they"????? but after about 10 minutes the restlessness subsides, so its definitely getting better, and last night, as soon as I feel a sleep I didn't wake up till about 6:30 or so, it was great, my leg definitely is the worst when I go to bed and when I wake up, but its getting there!!!!!!!! I just hope I'm smart enough to keep this up, so how is everyone doing??? Kip, how is everything working out for you?????



keep that angel on your shoulder



GWH

[skipper]

GWH:

so...the legs are, starting to calm down. some things take time

to get beter. unfortuneately it's always on someone elses time

table! i've noticed that my RL seems to come and go somewhat in-

dependent of weather i'm taking opiates or not.



Roseone: keep on track with your detox. if you get off track or

just feel lousy just post to us. we've all been where you are

headed. be real careful with that methadone! it's probably al-

rigt to use for detoxing, but don't lean on it for too long.



have been keeping up with swimming. have done a mile every week

day (before work) since the beginnig of last week. i'm still a-

djusting to it, as i'm quite tired when i finish. i can't believe

i used to swimm 3-5 miles a day just 5 years ago. changes..



keep an angel on your shoulder

kip

[OxyDout]

time definitely brings change, and trust me, I'm doing better but still not feeling well, hopefully I will make it through this time.  with all that pain the swimming is a huge accomplishment, don't kid yourself, your doing incredilbe, keep it up.



GWH

[butterbeans]

Skipper, it sounds like you are doing well!  Smile!!  Ya know, I can't swim.  Have a fear of the water, amongst other things.  That comes from traumatic childhoold expereinces.  It sounds like that a vice for you to help you when you decide(YOU), to quit meds altogther that you have something to really look forward too.  I like to watch some of the marathons and traithalons and many older people(a lot older than your young years) are out there and winning! Skip you have so much going for you.  It sounds like swimming is fun for you, rehabilitating for you, but, most of all you feel a big accomplishment when you do it.  I wish I could do that!  Skipper, this is just a thought, but, if and when you come to a time in your life, when you want all your addictions to be over with the meds, why not let swimming become somewhat a addiction, a healthy addiction.  You could train for some local marathons, etc. and you and your family would have something to really look forward too!  I know if it were me, I would be proud of myself if I had a vice like that to turn to.  I have something, but, is still in the making.  But, I am feeling healthier and happier everyday.  Keep up the good work Skip and let me know what you decide to do with all that swimming ability.  A Certified Lifequard for kids with physical disabilities:???????????????  And many more ways to go!

Jenny, GWH, Telby, I love all of you, miss you and I still read you everyday.  We are all strong and we will make a better society for everyone through our honesty , caring , and selflishness!

Love Butterbeans

[Telby]

I was just finishing my post to you when my conection blew and I was instantly off line.  I'll try again but if two show up don't think me obsessive.  I wanted you to know how good it always is to hear from you.  I feel like you and I have a special bond since we went through some very difficult days together.  I think of you often and send my prayers to you.  Isnt that Skipper something?  His wife Irish Rose is also an amazing person, very bright and insightful.  The two of them have touched so many peoples lives - and so have you so take real good care of yourself and remember you are loved.  love, Telby

[jennyfla]

I hope you are doing well sweetie, i need to catch up on all the posts here to find out how everyone's been!!!

Just plowing through life here trying to make each day as well as possible considering this darn addiction!

Hang in there!

Lv Jenny

[jennyfla]

My husband has a dr appt end of the month with his regular pain management dr, but this time they want to do blood work and do an EKG.

He's had an irregular heartbeat, and when they did an EKG at rehab last July, they called it 'Holiday Heart'.

That's when you go on a binge drinking and drugging too much and it effects your heart's function.

Thing that scares me is his dad had multiple heartaches before he died at the age of 50.  He was an alcoholic and didn't take his drs advice to quit drinking, and it eventually killed him.

I want him to go to a cartiologists and not just be seen by his quack pain mgmt dr who i don't trust anyway.

I wish there was a magic pill that took away the addicts desire to use substances.  I guess i'm far from alone on that thought!

I would like him to be around to see his children grow up, get married and have children on their own.  Here I am focusing on the hub again!  

Say a prayer if you could, i believe in the power of prayer! :)

Lv Jenny

[jennyfla]

GWH, keep going strong and never look back.  The restlessness will go away as hard as it is right now to deal with.  I get that when i'm in withdrawal and it's awful.  I also get restless arm too if that's a syndrome!  That's my first sign, the arms start crawling and then my entire skin feels like it's crawling off.  I think i would need to taper to get off of opiates because it's just too unbearable for me, and i am a tough person believe it or not.  With three children to take care of, i can't afford any downtime.

One thing i might suggest, i've been told that exercise is a #1 key to getting through the withdrawals quicker.  My husband was in rehab, addicted to oxys (quite a bit too), and also 50 mgs of methadone per day.  He was off of everything within 5-days, and felt relatively good.  Just had some mild cramping and problems sleeping.  He swore by jogging every morning (which was great until he screwed up his bad knee), and he was feeling so much better than his roomates who chose to lay in bed as much as they let them.

Good luck to you, and if you can physically, try to walk or jog those cramps out even if that's the last thing you want to do.  It will help with your sleep too!  :)



Annies,

I wanted to say that you have a lot of strength.  Congrats on getting through 8-years clean and working so hard to get your life back.  I have an addict husband also, and i know the pain you feel living with an addict.  Even being an addict myself, it adds in a whole different set of problems when your partner is an addict.

One thing they told my husband at rehab was the only way to have a healthy relationship together would be both partners would have to be clean.  It's hell when one is still using, and it's hell when both are using!  Good luck to you, and focus on what you need to do for YOU, and do what you need to do first!!!!



Skip, Nice to see you, and happy to hear that your swimming is giving you back a piece of you that was robbed after your became injured.  Hope you and your sweet wifey are doing well!

Lv Jenny

[butterbeans]

Jennyfla you are a sweetheart.  You , like me, are always thinking of others.  Maybe its sweethearts that needed a little attention ourselves the reason we got caught up in that good feeling when the doc first perscribed a pain med.   Hang in there honey.  You have the will and you are strong.  I hear it!!!

Love Butterbean

[OxyDout]

Thank you so much for your responses its been a huge help, I don't know why but I'm always curious about the details of peoples lives that post on this forum.........I'm 22, I'm in Biomedical sales and work is going well........I think the reason why I tend to think about oxys so much is because I still haven't let go of a close friend of mine who was killed on sept. 11th, he was a college roommate and best friend..... In anycase, my leg has been awful, but I have stayed sober, but I think I might start taking a form of vicoden once at night when needed to keep me from going back to the oxy's, I can get a prescription for the lowest strength vicoden, its below the "watson 349" .... its very week but helps keep the pain away and keeps my head on straight, I can't believe its been about a month since I have really been screwed up from oxy's!!! Anyway, thank you all so much, Jennafly, skip, annies, J.B, Butterbeans, can't rememeber all the names, sorry.  Thank you all



GWH

[jennyfla]

Thank you both!

Butterbean, i was definately meant to be a mother, i try to 'mother' everyone.  I remember telling my mom that i wanted a 3rd child.  She told me if i really wanted another child, go for it because that feeling will never go away.  Plus, she said, you are so darn good at it, you deserve another child.  If i could only concentrate on myself a little more, then i think i could beat this addiction!



GWH, hang in there, you're getting closer.  If you think you can manage alittle vic, i hope it will work for you.  I never seemed to be able to take alittle here or there after i became physically addicted, but i do wish you the best.

I'm 39 and i'm an administrative assistant for a company out in California, i live in Florida, but make California wages  :)

Although our company is not doing well, and i just found out that they laid off a bunch more people today, so i'm avoiding the phone!  :(

Best of luck to all!

Lv Jenny

[butterbeans]

Skipper, I just wondered why you never respond to posts I leave for you and others.  Do I say too much that hits home, or you just think it wasn't meant for a response.  My caring in my posts are there because I believe.  And what I read from your posts each day, is there is a man inside of you who wants to get out and do all those things I talked about in my lasts post to you and others.  I mean that!  WE all have specail abilities, idiosyncrasies, and have great and wonderful things we were put here to do.  By reading about your swimming, you sound like a man who could win some kind of race!  Not necessarily the race of swimming!  Understand!!! Go for it!

Love Butterbean

[skipper]

Butterbeans:

sorry, i don't mean to ignore your posts. one of the things i guess

i haven't talked about much as far as swimming goes is how tired

i become. i'm usually up at 4:00 AM (some mornings i have to walk

the dog). i'm usually in the pool by 6:35 AM. i used to swim at an-

other pool that opened at 5:00AM. i then try to work a full time,

somewhat physically demandinding job, then home to walk the dog a-

gain. so...i'm usally asleep (like or not) by 8:30 - 9:00 PM! i

have a fairly full and busy life. it was real hard to work swimming

back into the equation. and, i might add, somewhat difficult to

keep it in the equation. bad habits seem to come and find me. good

habits are elusive and hard to keep!



when i was in recovery and had 17 years off heroin, i looked at

swimming as just another way to drown the horse and it's hold on

me. exercise is a necessary component in any kind of recovery from

substance abuse!



keep an angel on your shoulder

kip

[littleguy]

Please be careful with the vicoden.  You have come so far and something like that can take a person back down.



littleguy

[OxyDout]

thank you for the post, I do agree without a doubt, I got the vicodin yesterday, took 1 last night, didn't do much, i was still restless, but it took a little of the edge off, I took a half of one today, which is basically just like taking nothing, but I'm gonna do this, I know I am, I'm much better off, How are you doing?

[AnnieS]

I'm back...........Hey guys just wanted to update you.First GWH.. I am so proud of you for staying away from the oxy's. I told you the longer the opiates are out of your system the less the wd systems get, which brings me to my fear of you going on a low dose of vixoden for the pain. I tried that and it just got that monster monkey on my back again. The pain subsided but  the tolerance did too so I started taking two then well,,,,,,,,I really am not the one to tell you what or how to do it but from my own expierence try everything else first. Have you tried Thomas' vitimins? They really do help. Please be careful my friend. The longer you keep ALL opiates out the better it gets. I know it is so hard when you are going through it but I feel so good right now I want everyone else to also.(97 days without any narcs and I'm feeling OK)I did use a crutch. I had revia prescribed by an addiction Dr. I posted about it awhile back. It is a drug that makes you VERY
Jennyfla,Telby, Butterbeans, Kip  All of you. I don't mean to ignor anyone. I am just so busy like the other mothers (I have two childern 18&16) And another who is 50 fighting the same battle. (well not my teenagers thank God) He did what GWH wants to do. He had almost 60 days clean and took vics(low dose) for a bad root canal. Now he is detoxing AGAIN and he is going on Revia (so he's says) Sunday. I am letting him make the choice but told him I can't be with him while he is using. He also had a REALLY bad year. 4 months of interferon for Hep C, Heart attack, a best friend  overdoses and one just died from cancer. We all have our crosses to bear but using these as an excuse only makes the pain worse. He told me last night that out of all the bad things that have happened this year he feels his relapse has been the worst. I think, (I know he wants to ) he will really decide which road to take this weekend. Pray for him to choose the right path. I am giving him his space and hoping he can do it. It's so damn hard. I love you all and read as many post as I can. I reply to the ones who are in the same place at the moment but I do think and pray for each and every one of you. Please don't think I don't respond because I don't care. I do . I'm just a really bad speller and typer as you all have noticed I'm sure. I'm an artist and tend to do better with the visuals. Any way I better get to work. Everyone have a great day and remember, one day at a time = a good day. Peace and Love, Annie

[AnnieS]

I don't know why but every time I post about Revia, I get to the very , very in and the rest is deleated out. I want to make it clear in case any one is thinking of going on it that it makes you VERY, VERY sick if you put any narcotic into your body while taking it. I mean you get deathly ill. It happened to me when I took It tooo soon. That's why it worked for me. I took the Revia everyday like a vitimin and when the urge for the opiates came on I thought," not today", I'm too busy to be kneeling over a toilet all day. Then one day I just kept taking the vitimins and supplements and now I'm giving the Revia to my boyfriend. Remember do not take Revia untill you are clean at least 6 days.

OK got that off my chest. have a good one all. annie

[littleguy]

Thank you for asking about me.  I am doing relatively well.  I am not sure how long I have been off of opiates, but it seems like almost a month now.  I have found that it is a little easier for me if I quit counting the days.



I do want to say that reading your posts each and every day was a huge inspiration for me.  Like you, I dont ever want to look back.



littleguy

[AnnieS]

GWH how is the leg. I do hope that you are better since I haven't heard from you I worried that you might still be in a lot of pain.

Jenny how do you do it? I left my boyfriend yesterday because he picked up after only one day away from starting Revia. I am so tired I couldn't sleep a wink. I did the hardest thing I had to do by walking out yesterday and now I feel like I'm going through detox. I want to call and make sure he's OK but I can't. Everytime I do he gives me the big I can't do it without you stuff and I end up in that life of hell, wondering if he used or not. Will he be ok to drive, is he out copping????  I'm so tired and unlike you I'm not married to him. I have my own house. I just feel guilty for abandonding him even tho I know that he could care less while he's using. What do I do?? How do I stay strong enough to stay away???I feel so helpless and yes last night for the first time in weeks the thought crossed my mind. Maybe I should go buy a bottle of Vodka and wash down a hand full of valium with it. I didn't tho. I feel abondoned by him. After all the promises and I know how bad he wants to be clean. How do you do it?????Someone give me some insight please. I need to stick to my guns this time. Peace and Love to all, Annie

[AnnieS]

Well it's Sunday and I was able to go two days without picking up the phone. He called tonight to see if I would go to a meeting with him. I did and he looked clean as a whistle. He said he would rather be dead than live through this agony. He really wants to quit he just is having the hardest time . I have 99 days in and he keeps saying now i have to change my date again. I told him the number of days doesn't matter. It's each day that you stay clean and each minute you keep that monkey off your back that matters. I have been wondering about all of you. how is everyone? GWH what did you decide and how are you? Kip are you OK? Jenny I hope you are well because I asked for some advice from you and haven't heard so I'm worried about how you are. My love and Peace to all, Annie

[TrailDale]

Addiction is a disease. If you are addicted to any drug you have addiction and can't successful take any mind or mood altering drugs. Doctors and drug companies have to pay their mortgages so they have no desire to tell you the truth, which is you can live drug free. There is no chemical cure for addiction. The only solution is complete abstinence and it's free. If you can't get clean alone try NA and or God. I know I'm an addict and I asked for help 29 years ago. I've been clean since an d I have a wonderful relationship with God and my family. Good luck. Trail Dale