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Looking for some advice... *REALLY Long Post*

Hi everyone....I'm new here, but not new to opiate withdrawal. I've been fighting the fight against pain pills now on and off for probably the better part of 8 years. While I have had some lengthy times sober from them (10-12 months for each one of my pregnancies, and 2 years prior to that), I've still always ended up back with them again. This stretch has been the longest that I've consistently been on them...3 years total, although I've gone through withdrawal more times than I can count over those 3 years....both involuntarily and voluntarily. I got to the point a few months back that I truly do want off these things once and for all....I've had it with needing pills to function, and I've had it with running out of pills early all the time and being 'sick' more often than not. I feel like it's a pathetic way of life....and I feel so depressed about it.  I am unable to be the woman I know I am, or the mom I know I can be....and it straight up *****. What I run into with withdrawal is its VERY VERY unbearable for me....no matter what I do. And trust me I've tried EVERYTHING over the years....more so over the past few months, because I'm desperate to get clean and sober once and for all. I've looked into the primary reason that I relapse...and every single time, it's exactly the same reason....because I can't deal with feeling like crap, being lazy, depressed, unmotivated, mean, and straight up miserable. The reason I got hooked on them to begin with all those years ago, was because I suffered with depression, anxiety and inattentive ADD my whole life, and found the hydros were the only med out of the tons I had tried, that actually alleviated my anxiety, lifted my depression and allowed me to focus, which in turn allowed me to live the happy and productive life I had always wanted to, but had been held back by my issues. Soooo, when I try to go off the pills, despite still being on anti-depressive and ADD meds for my diagnosed issues, all of those issues come back with a vengeance and I'm left being unable to live my life normally, and for me it is just so unbearable not being able to clean my house, taking care of my kids and dogs the way I want to, engaging in my artistic projects, and running my small photography business. Just about this time last year I went through voluntary withdrawal, and stuck it out for 38 days.....and on the day I relapsed I remember thinking about how I felt better on day 3!!! Then about a month ago I stuck it out for 13 days, and then I relapsed because I couldn't deal with how gross my house was, and the fact that I literally couldn't get my *** out of a chair/bed/etc. for the life of me. I enjoy being happy and productive, I live for that...and feeling so lifeless, miserable and lazy is like a freakin death sentence to me. I don't know what in th heck I can do so that things are more bearable for me so that I can live a sober life once and for all. I'm not asking to be superwoman (like how I feel on the pills) but maybe just like ummmm mediocre-woman??? Lol!! My opiate tolerance is absolutely ridiculous now too, which is just another reason that I need to kick them.....I have to take sooooo many pills to get the effects I'm looking for anymore. Probably 15-20 10mg hydros a day, if not more. What I don't understand is why the acute withdrawal and the post-acute withdrawal is SO freaking bad for me. 5 days ago I took 4 10mg hydros just to help curb the withdrawal because I was jumping off probably 20 pills a day....then the next day (Wednesday) I took only 3 of the 10mg hydros in the morning once again to help curb the withdrawal and I've taken no more pills since then....soooo I'm over 72 hours into my withdrawal now, although I felt pretty awful those first two days because for me 3 or 4 pills are nothing. Just as an FYI, the meds that I'm currently prescribed and taking (exactly as prescribed), as well as any supplements I'm taking are as follows:
-Lexapro (an anti-depressant) 15mg - 1 time daily
-Ativan (a benzo for anxiety attacks) .5mg as needed. I hardly ever take this med at all, I hate feeling tired or out of it, so I've never had issues with benzos. Even being in pretty bad WD over the past 5 days, I've only taken 3 of these .5mg pills.
-Clonidine (a blood pressure med, that is also good for anxiety & WD) .1 mg - 2 times daily.  I actually just started this med last week because my blood pressure readings have been horrible and my doctor is concerned about it. It's actually supposed to really help with opiate withdrawal too I guess, although this time around I don't find its making any particular difference in how I feel.
-Dexedrine (a stimulant med for my inattentive ADD) 10mg - 2 times daily.  I never have taken more than the prescribed amount of these stimulant meds over the years. Literally, the ONLY substance I've ever had an addictive problem with are the opiate pain pills.
- OTC Motrin (just plain old ibuprofen) for my aches and pains
- A whole food supplement for Adrenal fatigue
- A whole food B-complex supplement
- A folic acid/B-12 supplement
- A whole food supplement for ovarian function/health
- Apple cider vinegar/chia seed drink that I mix up and take 2 times daily

And here's the controversial one, Kratom, that I'm sure some of you may disagree with, but I started using it just over a month ago, and with charting my use of it....I use it MUCH differently than the hydros, as it doesn't even remotely do anything even close to me effects wise. I find that I'm using it more like I would an actual medicine (like taking Motrin for a headache) rather than taking it to get high and productive. I know it's considered a type of opioid...but it tends effects the same receptors that the hydros do only when taken in high doses, and I've only been taking it as needed in low doses, mostly when my gut and stomach start acting up in WD (it works SO good for that, without making you constipated and having a trapped gas issue that happens every single time I try taking Imodium (sorry for the TMI, but I thought some of you could probably relate), and also if I start getting the heebie-jeebie-skin-crawling-jump-out-the-mofo-window withdrawal feeling, because it helps with that too. For me, I get no euphoria or high feeling, just some slight relief from withdrawal. I know some people have addictive type 'reactions' to kratom, so I definitely wouldn't recommend it as a remedy for everyone...but for some, like me, it's worth a try to see how you react to it.

Sooo, that's everything that I'm taking during and for withdrawal right now....I honestly don't know and can't think of anything else that would help me. My mood and attitude is absolutely horrible tonight (and was all day today). I'm extremely mean and angry.  I can't bear to be around my family at all because the only feelings I feel towards them are anger and frustration...which is so not me, or how I feel about them, so it's really really upsetting me that I can't control how I feel. I'm also having health anxiety pretty bad, kinda like because I have anxiety from the withdrawal, and am having physical side effects from that (chest discomfort, dizziness, etc) I've been constantly worried that I'm gonna drop dead...and because of that I'm afraid to go to sleep, even when I actually feel like I can sleep.  It's awful....I don't know what else I can do...I'm on every freakin med possible (I think anyways...) and even a bunch of supplements. Is there ANYTHING else that some veteran addicts on here might be able to recommend to me to help make things more bearable for me??? I want to kick these things for good....but it's so hard when I feel like I do for soooo long. Like how can I just abandon life for that long? I'm willing to take any advice at all...from additional herbal supplements, nutrition, lifestyle changes to different meds to help cope or heal as well. I'm just at a loss right now, and really looking for some new advice.
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Avatar universal
yes ma'am well said
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Avatar universal
Hi prettypaige!!! I can so relate to your situation and it's ok, U are not in this thing all alone, of course U see that... But ima keep it short and feel free to hit me back. Not only but anyone that is reading this. Well prettypaige U say u been in and out of dealing with this nasty THANG for bout 8 years right? Well me I say 27 years in and out baby.. It ain't nothing that I don't know bout this addiction honey. Ask anything honey( been there and done that) and plus got a tee shirt lol....and guest what I still get precribed the same meds... What I did was bad to learn how to control it and not let lt control me, but now August 12, 2015 I own that thang... Can take one if I want to and if I don't I don't have to, but it was a time where I had to take them just to maintain my life and feel normal. My disability keeps me in pain but with GOD all things are possible and I pray over myself, speak life over my body and now I don't even hurt half as much. But I just thought I would share my story in a short way, I just joined this community and would love to be welcomed. Glad to be here. Any questions at all feel free to hit me up. Can tell u some great ways of  trying to get it under control or just if u want to leave them alone altogether im here.
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Avatar universal
Hi Paige:  As the gals have said, you can definitely go to AA meetings.   In terms of format, do you mean the type of meetings?   Open/Closed/Discussion/Big Book, etc?

Open meetings are for everyone; the addict, family members, friends, etc.  They are usually "stand-up" meetings, where people are chosen (often a visiting group from another town) to get up and tell there story...how it all started, where the addiction led them, and what it has been like since getting clean.  You will NOT be asked to speak when you are new.  In fact, in my home group, no one talks at Open meetings until they are 30 days clean, and even then, it's done very, very carefully.  No one would EVER put you on the spot, never.

Closed meetings are for the addict only.  They can be discussion groups, which are based on all kinds of things:  the AA Big Book, or the 12 steps, etc.   I'm not crazy about all of  the Big Book because it was written in the 1930's and contains a lot of outdated language...and a few things about women that don't apply nowadays.  NOW..what I've just written is construed by a lot of "long-timers" as a sign that I'm not serious about my sobriety, or that I'm trying to change a program that has helped millions of people get and stay sober.   Nothing could be further from the truth. But I learned the hard way not to voice my opinions about this stuff in every meeting, lest I offend folks.

One woman told me once "pick and choose what you need, and leave the rest.  As long as you're staying clean, and working on yourself, you're fine."  

A final word:  Not all meetings are great meetings.  AA is not ruled by any governing body; I've been to zillions of different meetings in different towns, and 1 or 2 were not good, not that the philosophy wasn't the same, but the people in the group just weren't as welcoming as in other places.   THIS IS RARE.   It only happens a fraction of a percentage of the time, but I wanted to give you a heads up just in case someone came up to you and said something weird.  Don't fret about it.   Your first 1/2 dozen meetings might  feel uncomfortable anyways; that's ok.   Just sit down and listen.   Most likely people will be very friendly and welcoming, but they don't' want to bombard you, so sometimes when a newcomer is there, besides a greeter at the door who will say 'hi' to you, ppl will give you some space.

You can arrive and leave  open meetings whenever you want to, and if that particular group says a prayer at the end, you do not have to participate if you don't feel like it.  

Good luck Paige...you sound motivated and I think you're going to be okay this time.  

BTW, I consider myself a healthy person, and I take a "crap-ton" of pills too...I have mild high blood pressure (both parents, and all 4 grandparents had it, so this one was written into my genetics), high cholesterol (again, genetics; I eat very healthy), GERD, and thyroid issues (started when I went thru menopause.)   I also have a slew of GI issues, starting back when I was 2 years old, so I have all kinds of stuff that i keep "just in case" (non-narcotic, of course) my stomach decides to go nuts that day.  

I used to feel very guilty about taking meds for my various maladies, but after being a life insurance agent for 20 years, I now realize that I'm no better or worse than anybody else (I had to take a LOT of health histories.)  

Hugs,
-Robin
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Avatar universal
Paige, exactly what Miss Krissy wrote...that is exactly my experience. So go for it, girl. Let us know what happens:)
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Avatar universal
Oh LOL good grief. "See" that's suppose to say "word"
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Avatar universal
Sorry for the spelling errors. My new phone thinks it's funny to change a world after I type it I guess?
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Avatar universal
Yes I agree with Jill,I also go to AA. I Have never had an issue with alcohol (probably would if I drank) but I was addicted to oxycodone for 11+ years. I actually prefer the AA to the NA. also there are a lot more of them. And same at my meetings,it's not just alcoholics,there's every kind of addict there. This is a very important part of recovery, I really thought I didn't need it my first month into being clean. But once the w/d's let up I felt like a shell of a human. I had a constant boredom feeling that would never go away no matter what I did,I was lost and couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. (Getting clean was the easy part,staying clean is the hard part) so I decided to go to a meeting. Thanks to Jill (jifmoc ^^^) and I'm not saying the light just showed up at the end of that tunnel right away,but there was a definite flicker. Now after 8 and a halls monthd of meetings I'm blinded by the light and I'll never go back to the dark. The dark is scary and so lonely. Keep up the great work and glad to head you're checking out meetings!
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Avatar universal
Hey Paige! Funny, I was just talking about this. I chose AA out of sheer desperation/convenience and I was/am welcomed w/ open arms. Literally every person that I've ever met in the rooms has problems w/alcohol PLUS (coke, meth, opiates whatever.) I found out that whatever we use as our drug of choice (opiates in our case) it is all the same: we use a pill, powder or liquid to escape reality. So, yes, totally go to either!

I'm unfamiliar w/ celebrate & smart. I am so glad to see you choosing an aftercare...you will feel better, that's a promise:)
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Avatar universal
My question to you guys about NA/AA meetings is, I tried going online to find an NA meeting in my area...and they have a section next to the meetings that says 'format' and has different things that I'm not familiar with listed there. Is there certain meetings that I'm supposed to (or not supposed to) attend based on format?? I'm completely new to this, so I don't really understand that part. Also, I've read before that AA meetings/members frown upon narcotics people attending...is that true? I'm having some issues finding NA meetings in my area...so I wanted to know if AA meetings were an option. Also, I've heard of other types of programs like celebrate recovery and smart recovery....what are those programs? Do they have meetings as well? Thanks a bunch!
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Avatar universal
Jifmoc & VIC - you're absolutely right...I have no idea where my baseline really is anymore. I had always had severe depression and anxiety along with ADD pretty much my whole life wayyyyy before the pain pills came into the picture....then almost exactly 3 years ago after having my tubes tied, I ended up with a horrible syndrome from it called Post-tubal ligation syndrome, which made my life h-e-l-l so badly in every aspect you can imagine, mostly because my hormones were SO extremely out of whack.  That issue alone was SO extremely painful physically and also made me a train wreck mentally....I literally only had 4-5 days a month where I felt good enough to not have to take pain pills. One of the reasons that I truly feel ready to kick these things, is I had surgery on June 18th to completely remove my Fallopian tubes which finally ended my hell on earth....no more physical pain, no more extreme emotional imbalances. I feel like I'm finally ready to live my life...a life without that syndrome, and a life without pain pills. However, my plan is to take things 1 at a time medication wise. Let my body heal from discontinuing 1 before beginning to discontinue another. It may take some time to do it that way....but by eliminating one at a time and leaving some time in between for my body and mind to level out, I'm hoping I will be better able to gauge which ones I need, which ones I don't, and which ones I can maybe take a lower dose of. However you may look at it, I'm on a journey to find me again, to be happy, and to live my life to the fullest. I may not know about my other meds yet, but I do know that I want these pain pills out of my life for good and to never look back.
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4522800 tn?1470325834
Very Good jifmoc!!!

I do agree with the above. If you look up each med and find out what area of the brain they hit you will be very concerned. This is why Addiction is a Brain Disease. It whacks out our Chemistry so bad. After you have some clean time in and I mean maybe even a yr, you will be able to feel things in a different way. This disease also takes working at to stay clean. Lots of Changes. I do wish you all the best..Maybe go hit a AA/NA meeting right now.
Bless
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Paige- no one is telling to to literally DROP all those other meds w/o a dr's supervision, of course not. The point is you don't know exactly what your baseline is since you haven't been stone cold sober in years. When you are, for a while, not a week, you will be able to know exactly what your issues are.

Every single person has a back story and issues. You just need to be off pills and then you can really truly discover, w/ a clear mind, what the issues are underneath the issues. Things you probably aren't even aware of yet. Remember, you haven't dealt w/ life clean in 8 years, you may not even know a lot of things that bother you. And you certainly, like all of us, have avoided lots of feelings.

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Avatar universal
Thank you to everyone who took their precious time to write a comment to my post. It means the world to me that 'strangers' who don't even know me, would take time out of their lives to help support me in my lowest time.  

I just wanted to clarify a few things for you guys, things that I think you might have taken wrong in my post.  First, the list of meds and supplements that I'm currently taking, almost ALL of them are meds that I've been taking and have been precscribed prior to withdrawal (most of them I've been on for 2+ years). and they are for specific diagnoses I have (generalized anxiety disorder, chronic depression, inattentive ADD, high blood pressure) so they aren't meds that I can just stop taking.  I was simply providing the list of stuff I'm taking as an FYI to everyone on here, so that you could be educated as far as any recommendations you may have for me.  Also, please note that I wasn't necessarily looking for any MEDS that would help me through and help me improve (I probably know better than anyone else on here that there is NO magic pill....because I would have found it by now!! LOL!) but mainly any OTHER ways and things that may help me heal faster, like lifestyle changes, dietary changes, etc....as I already know that I'm on a crap ton of meds, so i'm hoping that someone has some recommendations on lifestyle and dietary changes I can make because that's the one route that I haven't taken yet, and i'm WIDELY open for change right now.  That being said, I'm currently on Day 6....and while i don't feel as horrible sick wise, mentally I'm not good at all...i'm extremely depressed, weak, and unmotivated, despite seeing piles of disgusting clutter and messes all over my house...which in turn is giving me even more anxiety because I don't have the strength to do anything about it.

Also, something else that you guys may have taken a little bit wrong, was when I told my story...I was not giving you guys the excuses for me to use....I was giving you the REASONS that I began to use, as well as the reasons why I always relapse.  I've gone to an addictions counselor for a long time now, and he has explained to me the difference between discovering the reasons why I use, and making up excuses to use.  I worked with him on making a list of reasons....and at first, I actually put excuses on the list, because i didn't know the difference. He said that in order to understand myself and my addiction better, i need to understand the reasons why. Those reasons were what I was trying to relay to you guys. Any reason still doesn't make it ok to use....it just makes it easier to understand what is going on in your head, and what things you need to avoid, or not let get to you as bad when you're trying to quit.  it's easier said than done for sure.  Trust me, I know there is no reason or excuse in the entire world that would make it ok to use....but there are most definitely triggers ALL OVER THE PLACE that make it a whole lot harder.  
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Avatar universal
Hi honey:

Getting clean, and thru the withdrawals is one thing.  Staying clean is the real battle.

You need a whole new life...everything has to change.  Have you ever, in all your clean times, been to a 12 step meeting?  A/A, N/A, etc?  

Just because you get the crap out of your system, doesn't mean you know how to live...we have deep flaws in our thinking (addicts, I mean) that go way, way back to childhood sometimes.    We get clean and then what?  Without a blueprint, a roadmap, a GUIDE for how to live 24 hours at a time, we are like a newborn baby gerbil with no fur, just red, raw skin.    The world is too bright, too loud, too confusing, too everything.  And so we want to crawl back into the comfort of that high again.  

You've done a classic job of defending your reliance on pain meds, and I can understand why.  I don't think it is just the withdrawals, I think it is what comes afterwards...living life on life's terms.    You don't know how to care for yourself, how to sooth yourself, how to nurture your wounded body & soul.

Honey, you are better than this.   You DESERVE better than this.  

My advice:  Can you possibly check into a good in-patient rehab?  Somewhere that you can not only detox, but also begin some intensive one-on-one counseling (and group too) to examine the issues that underlie this horrible beast on your back?

You are beginning to have health issues (bp, etc.)  this will only get worse.  Life on opiates is bad for our health..it slows down our metabolism, it affects our long term memory, and worse of all, you can never stay on one dose...as you have already discovered, you need more and more to get the same affect.

Right now, you are very sick, honey.  I want you to get better.  Does your doctor know that you are on these drugs?  

And finally...a word about kratom.  This drug is on an FDA watch-list; it is illegal in one state, after a number of ER's reported near over-doses in patients coming in who had ingested kratom.  

It IS an opiod, and you are right that it's plugging into opiate receptors in your body.  But the part that really scares me is that: It is being grown, harvested, and cured in 3rd world countries.   Countries that don't have indoor plumbing, proper sanitation or hygeine measures, public health policies.    It is almost a guarantee that you are ingesting contaminates; everything from lead, to mold spores, to heavy metals.  

There are anecdotal reports of liver damage from kratom.   Are you taking hydrocodone that is combined with acetaminophen?  (it would say "apap" on the label, if it is prescribed...if you're buying it from a dealer, you can probably assume that you're taking generic vicodin, and yes, it contains acetaminophen.)  The reason I ask:  if you are taking 15-20 10 mgs (extra strength) hydrocondone/apap pills a day, you are ingesting a large amount of acetaminophen...7500-10,000 mgs a day.

Acetaminophen (brand name Tylenol) is toxic to our liver.  The maximum dosage per day used to be 4000 mgs/day.  The FDA has moved that down to 3000 mgs a day.    Tylenol is a moderate pain reliever; it is mostly used as an anti-pyretic (bring down fever); and it is very good at doing that.

Okay, I know I've thrown a lot of info at you.   I hope I didn't overwhelm you, but I'm sure I probably did.  

Some words of encouragement: You CAN get off this merry-go-round.  You CAN get thru the withdrawals, (they're really only nasty-awful for 2 weeks tops) and then learn to live a better, beautiful life, but you're going to need major help doing so.  You cannot do this on your own.  It isn't possible, please accept that.    

Does your spouse know about what you're doing through?  Your close friends?  If you are serious about getting better, you're going to need to come clean, and mean 100%, with everyone.  We are as sick as our secrets, honey.  There is no shame in this disease...it does not discriminate.

Let me know how you feel about what everyone has said...and please, don't leave. Stick around with here...I'm going to say a prayer for you.

Hugs,
-Robin
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Avatar universal
Hey Paige welcome. Since you've been around the block, I'm gonna give it to ya straight: all that stuff about not wanting a messy house and wanting to be there for your kids and being a productive mom as a reason to stay on pills  is a bunch of bullsh!t. That goes w/ your other excuse that the wds are so bad that you keep going back to pills. If you are really so freakin sick of this crappy FAKE numb life that you cannot tolerate one more millisecond of it, you will tolerate a messy house and horrific detox symptoms. We have all been where you are. Every single one of us. I was taking 10 to 15 10mg of hydro daily at the end. I know exactly where you are coming from. If you are done...really done,  you will accept, not like, but accept that these are the temporary consequences.

All of those temporary sober days/weeks you had, sounds like you were white-knuckling it. The bigger issue than wds is living clean. None of us can live clean by just dropping the drugs. We have to have support and aftercare: meetings etc. It's a whole new way of life.

Like Krissy said, cut all of your sources. Did you? You can't have anymore access. Kratom, benzos all that shiite is just getting in your way. We don't get off drugs by finding other drugs. We learn that discomfort isn't so bad and that pills aren't the answer for every thing that bothers us.

Stick around. People on here have posted every few hours during their detox. If we all did it, you can too.
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Avatar universal
You probably feel like you're gonna drop dead because of the meds. And you're taking kratom too? I'd get rid of all of that except the vitamins. Let your body detoxify and clean it self out. Like bearsfan said there is no magic pill to get through this. We all have to do it. We played the game,now it's time to pay the piper. You'll be ok,you just have to tell yourself that a lot!! It will get better. And yes you NEED to cut ALL your sources of how you get your drugs. Or this is just a merry-go-round you'll never got off of.
Helpful - 0
6063300 tn?1430430571
First off welcome and Congratulations on wanting to take your life back!
I can relate to your concerns but I think you are over thinking this whole WD...
There is no magic pill to take away the WD. You have to be ok with not being ok for a while.
You have been down this road before and you need to CUT all your sources! Meaning your drs, family, friends, tell everyone so you have no way to get the pills any more. The reason you keep relapsing is because you have ways to get them!
There are a lot of us that have gone threw this before (and more than 1 time) you need to be willing to stop and never look back.
You know the energy you got from the pills was never real, that is why you had to keep taking more. Your real energy will come back but not over night. Remember you did not become an addict over night so you can not heal over night!
If you really want to stop we will be here for you and by your side to help but there is no magic pill or remedy to help.....we are addicts and we need to heal. Take one minute, one hour, one day at a time.
Be ok with not being super woman and think about being you again!
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