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METHADONE QUESTIONS

OK, LOOK IVE BEEN DATING MY BOYFRIEND FOR 2 MONTHS..HE GOES TO A METHADONE CLINIC. HE STILL COMPLAINS ITS NOT ENOUGH. IM WORRIED THAT HE'LL SLIP BACK INTO HERION. IM JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING ALOT ABOUT ITS TREATMENT. IM TRYING TO STAY OPEN MINDED AND STRONG BUT THIS IS HARD. HES ON A 114 MG, AND CONTINUING TO GO UP. IS IT EFFECTIVE? HOW SO? HOW HIGH CAN YOU BE DOSED? PLEASE SOMEONE...HELP ME OUT WITH AN OPEN MIND.
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Avatar universal
Thank you everyone for all your insight and information....im so confused about all of it. Now im scared he's not wanting it like he said he did. its alot to take on everyday..the trips to  the clinic..empty promises.. and hes still drinking...and on such a high dose im scared ill come home from work and he wont be "with me" anymore! the other night he went out drinking and had so much he became verbally abusive and a little to "hands on"... he says he doesnt remember a thing..blacked out? i dont know what to do...is this just the addict in him....i mean hell i love this person... why does he not have the care for his own life like i do? maybe its not a fair question to ask. but right now hes not living with me anymore.. and he want to move back home..he misses me and my 11 month old... im not sure what to do there either......life is filled with riddles....no fun..... intil next time.......
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Avatar universal
I think clean is a suitable word for my life today- of course some people's definition of "clean" is NO drugs whatsover, even if prescribed. Is someone on meds for manic depression not clean? Or an epileptic who needs antiseizure meds? I feel I'm clean because I'm not out there shootin dope or scammin to get straight or rippin people off anymore. That to me is the opposite of clean- living with no morals just to get high.
  You do have a point about freedom, as in what would happen if all methadone clinics shut down?! Believe me, I've thought of that and it does bother me a bit. I would like to be able to be so free of all physical dependencies that I could just be, for example, dumped in the wilderness alone and have nothing to worry about but my sheer survival. Rather than crying and whining about my missed dose. But that brings me back to other people who are dependent on other, more socially acceptable medications. Are they really free either then? After all, they need to go to the pharmacy regularly and make sure they have enough meds for any vacation they might take. And, just like me, they too are pretty much f****** if there should be a wordwide pharmacutical shutdown. Also, when you've been *clean* for a while (and we do get tested for drug use through urines and swabs) you get takehome doses of methadone. I can go away for 2 weeks without worrying! My job however is more of a problem.
  So I guess I can say I see your point, but I've kinda worked that one through already. Life is not perfect, we all make our choices and we all have our crosses to bear- some heavier than others. But given the probable alternative to my situation, I take methadone. Someday I may get off of it, but it will be when I'm ready and because I feel it will be a true benefit to me and my life, not just "the thing to do".
  Hope all is well with you and your recovery. By the way, I've also gone the NA route for 7  years before a long and painful relapse that led me to yet another rock bottom and then getting back on methadone. And I found the 12 steps to be very beneficial to those who are able to live drugfree without constant agony. Everyone goes through misery at first- I went through a whole year of feeling lethargic and moody when I cleaned up and tapered off my 1st time on methadone. But I got through it and had many years of being completely drugfree. So you see, I've done it both ways and I think neither way is the absolute RIGHT way- it's a matter of personal choice. We should respect each other as fellow addicts fighting the same fight against the monster of addiction that is trying to take our lives.
  Wishing everyone peace and recovery,
-Dee
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Avatar universal
you live a clean happy life, if you say happy i believe you but clean ? can you leave town to vacation for a week without the methadone,a day or 2 ? if there was a natarul desaster like an earthquake or any kind of emergency and you werent able to get it would that be ok. maybe so because i see you left freedom out
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Avatar universal
hello dlr2007,

May I ask you a question.........?
Why would you be on Methodone for three years?
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Avatar universal
Hi Everyone- Well I've been on methadone for 3 years so I know a bit about it. 1st off, it does block opiates IF you are on enough- a good blocking dose varies from 20 mg ow lower all the way up to over 300 mg- really! Depends on tolerance, metabolism, etc. Some people try to get more and moreto get high, but it's just not a euphoric drug!  In my experience, too much will just put you to sleep- way too much will put you to sleep forever, so be careful.
  Also, some people do have such altered brain chemistries and persistent addicdtions that methadone mainterance- for years, decades and sometimes for life- is neccesary. Being on "not enough" methadone is very difficult- most proggressive clinics have learned to not be so rigid about raising doses because sometimes it's needed to stay clean. Also, some "fast metabolisers" need split dosing- half in am, half in pm.
  There are always people who "cheat" and take advantage of every kind of help they get- they only scr*w themselves in the long run. Just like people who go to meetings and lie about their clean time or keep using, or prey upon newcomers of the opposite sex, using their "wisdom" to take advantage. Methadone clinics have their share of scumbags too. But not all of us. "getting on the clinic" is not something that should be taken lightly, but there are sitations when it is the best option. It can be a real miracle for some of us to be able to live both without the use of illicit drugs and without agonizing withdrawals.
  Hope this sheds some light from another point of view. Thanks and good luck to all. -Dee
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Avatar universal
Hi- I've been on methadone this long mainly for two reasons. The first is that I feel it has improved the quality of my life by ending my struggle with addictive drugs and calming the obsessive, miserable side of me that kept my life in shambles before. My kids are happy, I'm a better mom than ever, I'm working back at the job I had before I got strung out again- I even quit smoking! The side effects of methadone are mild and few for me. I need more sleep than I did before (this is especially important for me since I drive for a living- yes, people on methadone can drive and operate heavy equipment safely!) and it's harder to maintain my ideal weight- I gain more easily it seems. Methadone is a nontoxic drug to the body, so people can stay on it for decades with no ill effects.
   The second reason is that I have a long history of drug abuse and have too much at stake to risk throwing it all away just so I can get off methadone when I don't mind being on it. I have a wonderful husband, two beautiful kids, a great job and a nice house. I could lose it all if I went back to using. For me, a combination of methadone maintenance, counseling and a complete change of friends has enabled me to live a clean, happy life. I may stay on methadone for the rest of my life. It doesn't bother me. It's not for everyone, but it is great for some.
  Thank you for your interest in my point of view. I hope that helps you understand why I've been on methadone for three years, and I wish you all the best on your own road to recovery.
-Dee
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Avatar universal
Again Doctors and frigging money.......

Methodone for what it is intended is a great drug......but as always doctors and addicts screw this up again.....

Methodone is a two week program (thats it)
then your done!!!!!!!!

The strengths are to small, ,that is an addict complaining that his buss isn't strong enough and if he is an ex-Heroin addict thats probably true........

Dutchess mentioned subutex it is an amazing drug for what it is intended as well.....
While at detox while being trapped in the stall in the bathroom with terrible
diarrhea and vomitting.......I couldn't get up off the stall so I was given a bucket to puke in.......
Finally the doctor came in and interviewed my while on the john....he then ordered the nurse to bring me two subutex stat....
I put them under my tounge and everything went away......
I went on a 5 day subutex program and it worked great.....for W/Ds

Methodone and Subutex are great for weaning off opiate addiction W/d's
they are not intended for substitution from another......
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202347 tn?1189755825
I agree that it is possible that he wants to get high and often that is difficult to do with methadone. My husband is a doctor at a methadone clinic and many of my patients are also addicts and I have used methadone to taper them off of opiates. Now, I prefer ultram or suboxone depending on the patient.

Methadone clinics require so many hours of counseling per week or month because of this. Heroin addicts can often become just as addicted to the needle as they do to the drug. The drug is a physical dependency that he has no control over, his body is no longer producing its own natural opiates and as a secondary action of opiates-serotonin, norepinepgrine and possibly dopamine are low also. So stopping suddenly (cold turkey) will cause withdrawal which, though it does not usually pose any immediate danger can still cause permanent damage to the central nervous system and cardiopulmonary system since opiate receptors are widely distributed throughout the brain, spinal cord, lungs, smooth muscle of the digestive tract (mostly the large intestine). The physical withdrawal can be dealt with in a fairly short amount of time if you taper down slowly but psychologically, cognitively, even emotionally there very often develpos an addiction to the high he feels and to the needle. It is not uncommon for heroin addicts who have no drugs at the time to inject any drug they can get a hold of because they are truly mentally addicted to the needle. This is why is often needs to be a long process in order to stay clean and prevent relapse.

Methadone does not block opiates (meaning that it would be an antagonist to opiate receptors) Naloxone and Naltrexone are antagonists that block the effects of opiates. Methadone is an agonist binding to opiate receptors to prevent withdrawal but does not produce a high. This is what is most frustrating to many addicts on methadone or suboxone maintenence. He has be to careful and is blesses to have you looking out for him as methadone maintenance can be very successful if done properly. The problem is that these clinics are usually privately owned, and encouraging the patient to begin tapering down the methadone when they are ready means that they will be losing that patients money. So often you will see people that have been at the clinic for 10-15 years and even more. If he has a good counselor, he will assess carefully when he is ready to begin tapering. Tapering too soon and too quickly will almost always end up in relapse. I see it everyday, my husband's poor patients are not being cared for by the counselors like they should be so he finds himself doing much of their job too when he sees the patients. Often patients initiate their own tapering, and the counselor does not assess whether they are ready or not.

As far as the dosage goes, this is another problem with the politics behind it all, they want to make money. The higher they let him go, the longer he will be in the program as methadone must be tapered very slowly- no more than 5mg/month or  1-2mg/week. Some people come down 2-3mg per week and do okay, but then weeks later begin to feel the effects of them tapering too fast. Methadone is a very long acting opiate that can take weeks and sometimes over a month to begin feeling withdrawals after the last dose. The ceiling here on the west coast is 180mg, while the max on the west coast is 300mg!!! Yep 300mg, do the math, that's a long time at the clinic! That's why they won't discourage him too much for wanting to go up higher.

There is a drug that has an antagonist (bocker) that is buprenorphine (subutex) it is a partial agonist and partial antagonist so it will cause withdrawals if you are not already withdrawing when you start taking it. Often subutex will be used to start (the first week or so) b/c the withdrawal is usually much more mild this way. After a week, suboxone is started. Suboxone is buprenorphine with naloxone, naloxone is an antagonist and will block the effects of any opiate that is taken while on it. It also helps control cravings for the drug.

I know I rambled on and on like I usually do, but you mentioned that you did not know much about it and I do not want to to be misinformed or have anything "shock" you if it comes up. I just wanted you to be as informed as you can so you can better know what to expect and how to help care for him. His clinic should have some material for you that will be more detailed and helpful. Some methadone clinics allow for you to attend his counseling sessions with him. Just be aware that methadone does not have any antagonistic properties, so he can still get just as high as he wants if he takes other drugs.

I hope this is helpful

xoxo- D.
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Avatar universal
118 is a very high dose, although they will probably take him to 150 if he keeps telling them he needs more. IMO this is just the addict in him trying to get high off the methadone. That's what I did, at first thinking that it's costing $10 a day so I want as much as I can get. Although I stopped at 90, looking back, there was no reason to go any higher than 40. Once stable at a certain dose, whether it be 150 or 50 or 20, the methadone works the same in stopping him from w/d's. Also serves as a blocker for other opiates, meaning if he would take anything while on the methadone he will not feel it.

Methadone clinics can be an effective way to get him clean, but HE has to want it. The only way the clinic will force someone into detox is if you don't pay them. Keep in mind they are in business to make money.

Try and get him to stop going up, and get stable on a certain dose. When he is ready to detox, take it slow. The higher he goes the longer it will take. Hope this helps a little.
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