Mental Addiction

[mrrstracy]

I would like to know how long the mental addiction lasts after the physical withdraws are gone. And what can be done to help relieve the anxiety after opiate withdraw that always follows, without drugs. I have tried Kava Kava, melatonin, St.John's Wort and other natural minerals but haven't foung anything that works well.

Thanks,  Tracy

[groovygirl]

Hi - thanks for your post below.  The Dr. here will probably say the mental addiction lasts varying lengths of time.  I think it can last a long time...unfortunately.  It is definitely the hardest part of the process for me.

I wanted to say something about Buprenex, because so many people are asking about it.  It has been widely used in Europe for awhile, and new studies have shown that the addiction potential is high.  It is being sold on the streets, and people pay up to $20 an amp.  It isn't the mild, little miracle drug is is cracked up to be.  I've been on it since April, and I was just as tempted to abuse it as I was with hydros, oxys and percs.  I didn't get the same "high" kind of feeling, but I definitely felt good.  The addict in me said if 1 amp feels this good, imagine what 2 will feel like...and so on.  At one point, I was up to 8 amps per day...the clinic in FL was prescribing 6 per day - which now I find out is a ridiculous amount.  

I have experienced the SAME detox symptoms from Bup as any other opiate I've tried.  I'm not trying to discourage, I'm only pointing out that it isn't harmless.  It is stronger than morphine, and is a great pain med.  It is a lifesaver for those wanting an easier detox, but just be careful not to let the addict in you tell you to take more...less is better with Bup.   Oh, also you can NOT take any other opiate while on Bup...it will make you incredibly sick.

[Bodymechanic]

Yes, I think we are all grabbing for a miracle.  I have been thinking about this very recently and I am concerned about simply trading one problem for another problem, only much more expensive. By comparison my drug problem is not all that bad. On a very bad day I will use 8 hydros or 8-10 ultram.  I usually take less.  I am wondering if it might not be better to just try to take the least amount of drugs I can but stay on the same meds. Do you think it is worth it to switch to bupenex if I can stay on a lower dose. I can't stand the roller coster ride of short acting drugs and I don't want to get myself into an even bigger mess with oxycontin or methadone.

I hate this whole thing.  I especially hate the fact that I spend money on myself that might be better used for my wife and child.  I make sure that they lack for nothing but it still makes me feel guilty.

[groovygirl]

Hi - the difference Bup made for me was I switched to something that does not pass through my liver...because it is taken IM.  Plus I am taking less medication.  It is very expensive though, and I have been thinking about that a lot lately.

8-10 hydros a day is a lot of acetaphetamin (sp??) for your liver to handle for any length of time isn't it?

It is good you are putting this much thought into it, and I like your attitude about not stressing so much over the addiction thing.  For those with chronic pain, meds are just a way to live a normal life.  With all that is available to us now, we shouldn't have to live in agony.

[diso]

I'm on day 12 of being clean.  I guess I should actually say it has been 12 days since I used my last opiate.  I went through a 4 day detox in the hospital and have been out a week now.  I have for the first time in my life been experiencing major insomnia.  The last three nights I have woke up at 3:00 a.m. or earlier and have been unable to return to sleep.  Is this pretty typical?  If so, does anyone have some advice?  I am worried about being prescribed a sleep aid but I am really wearing down.  I feel my lack of sleep is hindering my physical and mental recovery.  Its very discouraging.  Thanks in advance for your comments.

[tjfromnj]

I know what you mean. I am now on day 5 of the last time I took anything. I quit everything. No Drugs (of course) Somas or Zanaflex (muscle relaxants) Cigaretts (I smoked about 10 a day for 15 years), Pot, Beer, and even Caffine (it just keeps me up, and makes the legs jimmy more). Sleep is something that I just cant seem to get yet, and I have never had a problem with it. I was a zombie when I hit the sheets. The only thing I take at night is a TyPM. I was a 2 year addict from knee surgery.

[mrrstracy]

Your sleep problems are common so don't get worried. Do you have a Dr. that knows your addiction and can prescribe something for sleep. I had a Dr.give me trazadone to help with sleep and he said it was not a narcotic. I also occassionally take 1 tylenol PM. If I take 2, it seems to have the opposite effect and keeps me up all night. I would suggest no caffeine at least 4 hours before bedtime. Watch what you eat before bed and try to exercise or at least a walk. You'll notice that after you've been active awhile that you will be less anxious and you'll feel better. It may sound crazy too, but when I feel some anxiety or too wound up to sleep, I will count back from 100 in three's. Something like 100, 97, 94, 91, 89. My doc says it works because you have to concentrate on the numbers and your brain can't wander. Guess it's a little like counting sheep, only a little more complex. Hope you get some rest.

Tracy

[Allburnedout]

A hot bath (jacuzzi if you have one) will help you relax. Also, you can buy Melantonin from any pharmacy, over the counter. Melantonin is the natural chemical your body produces to induce sleep. The tabs come in 1mg and 3mg. I take 9mg about one hour before bedtime. Also, benedryl is an excellent sleep aid. I also take 1 benedryl w/ the Melantonin. I couldn't sleep until I started taking the above mentioned. Try it...it works.

[diso]

Thank you all for the advice.  Its good to know that this is just the normal process.  It has also served as another reason to stay clean.  I guess if detox was easy going back to the pills would be easy too.  If feel my energy creeping back ever so slowly.  I will give the melatonin a try.  I think I want to stay away from sleeping pills right now.  I too have given up everything.  I used to smoke weed every night before bed and before the pills.  For some reason when my addiction to the pills got bad, smoking weed really freaked me out.  It pointed out to me what an addict I had become. So I naturally quit smoking.  Now for some reason, I crave the weed more than the pills.  I think my brain is trying to trick me: "Go to the weed it will get you to the pills."  Can't take that risk.  I was talking to a friend today.  He is currently in detox at a hospital.  I asked him if he could believe what we had done to ourselves.  It started so innocent.  Just a weekend high.  Now I am an addict for life.  I have a tooth that I believe is abscessing.  I probably need a root canal done.  I am now afraid that even if I am in extreme pain I must turn down any pain meds.  It sucks.  But its the situation I am in and nothing I can do will change the past.  So no more whining, just gotta accept that my brain has flipped and I am an addict.

There are a lot of great individuals here with very kind hearts.  The support and encouragement I receive by reading your posts, not just to me but to others, really has been incredible.  I found this place, like many of you, by accident.  It was right at the point that I had realized I was truly addicted.  I was scared to death.  I lurked here for a couple of months.  Slowly, and because of what I read here, I gained the courage to quit.  I am now off the opiates.  I can't give enough credit to you that post here for that.  You saved my life.  I encourage everyone, even you who lurk, to post.  It feels good to express your experiences, frustrations, pains, and triumphs.  My battle is just beginning.  But its definitely a battle worth fighting.  Yes, I feel like ****.  I wouldn't trade the way I'm feeling for a "high" right now.  I just seem to be more into life, like really living now, and THAT feels good.

[groovygirl]

Your post is the kind of message I miss and the kind that really inspires me.  It is what keeps me coming here and makes it so helpful to others that are just beginning to think about detoxing.  

The thought of going through withdrawal is enough to make anyone in their right mind afraid, but you have shown that it can be done.  You have also proved that this place provides an invaluable service...way to go!!

[Bodymechanic]

The fact that you are sleeping at all is a very good sign.  I am one of the unlucky ones in that after being on methadone for 3 years I never got a normal sleep pattern back again.  That was over 20 years ago.  

Honestly, I don't think you should take anything at all. I know that sounds hard. It is a well known fact that whatever you take to make you sleep will in the long run make you worse.

[Bodymechanic]

Well Maraposa if there was on online pharmacy that sold buprenx, which of course, there is not. I would order some and see what  the lowest dose I can comfortably live with.

[groovygirl]

I'm not sure why you saying that...because there actually is, but I thought I sent you an email about it already?

[diso]

Thank you for your kind note.  Its interesting (and frightening) for me to think about what I was doing when I first came to this site.  I was snorting over 200mg of oxys up my nose each day.  I remember at one point thinking to myself that this was it for me, I would be doing oxys the rest of my life.  I tried cold turkey without any assistance once before, lasted about 24 hours and then gave up in uncontrollable sobs.  It was at that moment I knew I was stuck.  I came here and read dozens of posts from people that had actually broken free.  It gave me so much hope.  I wasn't ready to quit at first.  But, I knew I eventually wanted and needed to. I came here everyday.  I found so many inspiring posts.  It just convinced me it could be done.  Its interesting how hard you start cheering for someone whose real name you don't even know when you see them making their run.  Its heartbreaking to hear of their pain or in many cases their eventual inability to make it.  But, as many people have stated above, sometimes it takes a relapse to really convince you to quit.  I want to be done.  I pray I am done.  My desire to use is very low.  I think I am lucky in that respect, I'm not jonesing for any high.  My back pain is real and I had forgotten what it feels like to live moment to moment in pain.  At this point, I don't know how much of the pain is "real" and how much is still a product of my detox.  I've started stretches, I'm actually excited to start exercising again.  I had become such a slug.  My motivation for life had been sucked from me.  I consider this all a second chance at life.  I don't take this opportunity lightly.  I shiver at the thought of to what depths a relapse might take me.  I also don't think my wife could stand by me again.  I've lied to her and hurt her too much already.

I had posted to you earlier inquiring into which aminos you had found effective.  Could you tell me?  Thanks.

[Bodymechanic]

Of course there is an online pharmacy that sells buprenx but I thought everyone was going to be hush about it.

[tjfromnj]

First Time here. I have been on Hyro, Oxy, Percs, MS Contin, and every muscel relaxant I can find for about 2 years now. Its been a every day habbit that started with my knee surgery. I am now nearing the end of day 5 clean. My wife got her pregancy test on Monday and I said if it was positive I would kick everything cold. It was positive, and I have to say everyone who goes through this is tougher than I thought. It is horrible. Besides all the symthoms, its just the overall crappy feeling that I want to go AWAY! Now that the crappy feeling of the detox has slowed, I am having a hard time dealing with the Mental Addiction. I was very routine with when I would take the pills, primarily at night, in a four our span from 8-11. Should I just expect this feeling, or can I do something to fight it??

[Rex1]

The subject raised today is really what frightens us all, I believe. Isn't it?

What I wonder more than anything else is "What have I done to myself?". I am already talking to my kids about drugs and alcohol and the anology I use is that of quicksand. You can't see it until your in it, and then when your in it trying to get out you realize the more you try the worse it gets. How do you get out of quicksand? Well I remember the old Tarzan show where someone came along with a big tree branch and pulled him out. Answer: You can't get out alone.

And for me, that's what this place has become. I hope I am not being to pushy too soon (About a wekk and half here), but I know that next week, and in the weeks to follow, I am going to need you guys, along with Mike (methman)and Hippee if he ever comes back.And I promise to be here for you.

To summarize, we are all looking for the same thing - hope. We hope that we can reverse the process that we have either voluntarily or involuntarily set in motion, only to find out that we wish we could Click Edit/Undo on our lives when we made that decision.

Well we are here and we can't. But 1day is ahead of me, and he says it can be done to the point he is at, so that's where I am going. I believe he'll help me up, and then we'll help the rest behind us up.

Someone said earlier in the week "united we stand - divided we fall" Amen to that.

Finally, as I taper down on the Vikes, the depression is hitting me and there is NO worse feeling in the world than despair (for me). One thing I learned from listening to a Christian Radio station is the following, which a pastor used when he was in the the grip of cancer, and could barely get out of bed. He said he repeated over and over "God, I know You are a good God, and I know You love me". This has worked for me before - feel free to use it if you are so inclined.

God, and this place gives me hope. Thanks to you guys for that.

Rex

[Bodymechanic]

Welcome to our friendly but somewhat insane little tribe. So your going to be a dad. Being a dad is the greatest thing in the world. But now you have a little one that depends on you and everything else that goes along with it.

Give yourself another week or so.  It took you 2 years to get into this mess, don't expect to get out overnight. You will get better every day especially if this is your first time getting clean.  Keep in mind that it will get harder every time you get addicted.  You will probably be prone to addiction for the rest of your life.  That simply means that anytime you need to use a narcotic for more than 3-4 days you may go through a withdrawal. Not the worst thing in the world but you don't want go through what many of us have gone through. It is totally up to you.


Peace

[groovygirl]

1day, sorry I didn't get back to you on that.  The bottle says, "Twinlab, bodybuilding Amino Acids - Amino Fuel 2000."  It has 8 amino acids in it.  

You can get it at any health food store.  The pills are gigantic, so be prepared!

[groovygirl]

Sorry, I meant to add this to the post above...I'm so glad you decided to move your post up to the top - good move!

I'm sure you will get a lot more support than you thought you would here...it is a great place!

How are you doing today?

[tjfromnj]

Thanks so much for the support. I can feel every day that passes get a little better, and that gives me hope. My strong wife gets me through the toughest times (primarily night). Do the Amino acids help with the Mental addiction? Is their any tricks or things I can do to help when the night calls and I dont know what to do with my self?

[groovygirl]

I don't know of any "tricks" - I'm not sure if there are any.  I try to throw myself into something that interests me.  I'm a avid reader, so I can easily escape into a good book.  My husband is getting frustrated (in more ways than one) about my distance.  Lately, I've been going to bed really early, with my book, and reading for hours.  Our daughter is staying at her grandma's house tonight, and my husband wants to go out on the town.  I have no desire for that or for anything with him lately.  He is very supportive, but right now I feel like I need time for me, and I don't want to do anything with him...I don't know what to do.

Look at me...I went off on a tangent and didn't answer you question.  I don't really have an answer I guess.  Get into a hobby, be with good friends - go to the gym...anything to get your mind off getting high.

Good luck...hang in there.

[Bodymechanic]

I know what you mean with your husband and all that, about getting frustrated.  My wife gets that way sometimes. Of course I just turned 48 yr and you could just as easily tempt me with a cookie as with a cookie box.  I think it all happened after the birth of my daugher last year.  I finally learned the true meaning of having sex.

For some really wierd reason that I cannot explain, I have been having these very errotic dreams about butterflies.  I wonder what that could mean?

[lisabet]

Mariposa, I know what you mean about your husband. I'm the same way with my companion of 9 years; seems like I just want to withdraw and be by myself. I've recently tapered on Vics by about 50%, plus cut back on alcohol drastically. I'm feeling better pysically and mentally, but I just can't seem to make the effort to make more time for my partner, especially sex, I'm just not interested, and it makes me feel bad for him.  Maybe I'm scared of the intimacy, especially after being so wrapped up in myself with my constant preoccupation of getting my next refill. I probably need to see a counselor, but I'm hoping things will get better on their own (yeah, right).
Bodymechanic - your dreams about butterflies aroused my curiosity, so I went on google search engine and typed it in - according to this: "Dreaming about butterflies flying around denotes news from absent friend by letter or from someone who has seen them."  You wouldn't happen to be yearning for an old flame, would you?  heh-heh.  Since you say your dreams are erotic, that was the first thing I thought of.  I used to have dreams all the time about losing teeth, and being horrified at the fact.  I haven't dreamed that for a long time, but it used to be a recurring dream.  Thank I'll go back and look that one up (But it's so weird it probably isn't even on there!)..smile
Have a good evening, Lisabet

[Bodymechanic]

A joke explained loses it's punch.  Umm...I guess you don't speak any spanish.  

But thank you for taking the time to look it up.

[lisabet]

Oops - am I read-faced! When I read your last post it just hit me that you were teasing Mariposa (butterfly)....
...as RosannaRosanna Danna would say...."never mind"....smile.

[groovygirl]

Hahahahaha...that was funny! I've been having erotic dreams about Chiropracters...does that mean anything to anyone?  Dreams are very weird...their meanings can be very subtle or right there in your face.  I think I need my back cracked.

[tjfromnj]

Hey everyone, one week clean and feeling better. Thanks for all the advice, and yes getting my mind off of things does seem to help. Anything natural I could take that might help me with sleep? I feel that I havent slept in a week.

[diso]

Congrats on getting clean!! The tough physical part is over.  I am on day 15 and while I still definitely have some lingering effects it gets better every day.  Today has been my best day.  Sleep makes a huge difference.  I hit a bought of insomnia last week for some reason.  It is a bit strange because I slept fine during my first week.  Perhaps, my body was so worn out during the initial detox that it just crashed.  Last night was my first good sleep since Tuesday.  I tried melatonin it seemed to help a little.  Actually, I would recommend 3 things to you.  Eat a lot of bananas so that you aren't cramping bad at night.  The leg cramps make it virtually impossible to sleep.  Also, take a warm bath before bed.  It really helps.  Finally, if you can muster the energy, work out before going to bed.  Make yourself physically exhausted.  The physical work out I think is the best way to get some sleep.  It is so tough because even at a week you still feel tired and weak.  If you can force yourself to do it I believe it will help.  This all just takes time.  Be patient.  You are very close to feeling good again!!

[FesterTool]

Hi. I feel like this alot. I have found myself thinking, "What if I just had one more. I would never do another, ever again. If I could only have one more." Then I realized how much It was ruining my life, because it was always just one more. It was always on my mind. It still occasionally pops up. IT's a little easier to control now though. I find thing to distract my mind from the drugs. I especially like to cook a little now. I'll even watch some of those shows on TV. This form helps me alot too. A bunch of addicts like me, with stories I can relate to. What I'm trying to say is, I think I'm  going to "miss" my drug of choice until I get a new one. Chocolate Chip cookies, perhaps???

Staycool!!!
Festertool