Methadone / Suboxone / Rx home dtox

I'm really up against it now: Went to a Meth Clinic Thursday, and the dr's cool, but he doesn't like the sub thing (a bad outcome for him?) and wanted me on Meth same day ... seedy part of town, gotta say ...

So I'm seeing him on Monday (just started a contract, and I can't **** it up) with an eye to pushing him into a sub treatment (shortest realistic term), 'cause it seems to be easier to get away from. Currently holding at about 100-120 oxy; just enough to get through the day (agonizing, but I'm not going into 3x80 territory -- no buzzes, just keeping the hounds at bay). Been through two home w/d attempted over the last 5 or six weeks, but Day Three was too much (did a med-assist 10-day w/d 3 yrs. ago-- it stuck until this spring -- someone saw how mashed I was (tired) at work, and gave me three Perc's. That was fine for a while, but winter and lots of other things (lay-off a big factor: short days, lying around being useless, looking for the easy way out, etc.) had me knocking on some old doors, and here I am ...

Really up against it -- this dr. has a sub ticket, but he doesn't like it much ... offered me Meth first appt., but he's not feeding the $$$ machine; just that it's more predictable for use ... so I'm getting a few more O's while I negotiate.

Preference: Clonidine and Seroquel (sleep) and one more go at home.

I've tried to help some of you out, 'cause I care. Please return the favor, objuectively as possible.

Thanks. This site has helped so much ... one more kick at the can for a Desperation Unit -- want these drugs out of my life, and deal with the other bits right away.

I need you.

[Allicat0117]

Did you get off the valium?

[worried878]

I am sorry kevin but i get confused?????I thought u already did sub and methadoe for opiate wd???? and i am sorry os i have been away and may have forgotten...can u post ur past getting clean story so i remember???I am getting old so please forgive me

[sinkorswimintoronto]

Hey 'ol buddy...you dragged my sorry a** through so I will help you any way I can...If the contract is starting...don't do c/t right now...you know what you need to do and meth or sub aren't it...How long can you hold out at 100mg or less?.....this might be a christmas from hell for you if you know what I mean...only time you may be able to get the time off to c/t...
Can you get the sub for for a 4 month taper schedule then kick over the xmas holiday...definitely no fun, but neither is unemployment...
Don't pooch the contract 'ol man...you need it...get the sub and do a taper into the holidays and mope around under the xmas tree for a week......OK?

[Kevin_Bacon]

Still on Valium, but dr. didn't say "No way," so maybe a lesser dose -- that's a monster to attack later, I hope.

I've never taken either, but the thought is pretty depressing, to the point of going with 'done to get out, but I've gotta do something ... just the p*** testing every day, lining up every day, and the clientele are mostly young and carefree and naive -- I'm a geezer now. Also, oxy shortage has me in a bad way. Should be doing 240mg to get the"desired" effect, but holding at 120mg for now ... the $$$ alone are killing me.

Hey, sink -- still trying to find that German stimulant you mentioned? Sounds dangerous ...

[salsinator]

Hi Kevin,  I am new to this forum and have never posted before, I feel your pain.  I completed an 8 day detox two months ago after being on Suboxone for over 3 years and vics for years before that.  I was very comfortable through the whole thing and feel great now.  The meds used were 0.2mg Clonidine/day, Valium 10mg 2-3 X 2-3 times per day, Seroquil 25 mg-1/2 in the morning and 1 at night, and Tramadol 2/day for 6 of the 8 days.  The other component as you probably know from your previous experience is the Naloxone in larger doses each day until the final day - which is a huge dose.  I don't know if you can detox on the other meds without the naloxone, but just the Valium and Clonidine are very helpful alone.  I too was tired right after the detox, but it only took a week to get my energy level back up.  I have completely stopped all using, including alcohol and feel great.  Don't give up.

[candothis247]

Hi Kevin

So this doc who has the sub ticket, I would go that route if at all possible.  Why doesn’t he like it?  Why I wonder does he want you to do methadone.  I don’t understand when you say “he’s not feeding the $$ machine” Do you think because methadone is cheaper than sub is the reason he wants to go the methadone route?

I would tell that doc about all the research you’ve done, and how many people you’ve heard of who have been successful in getting off opiates w/subonxe,  lots of people here state that it “saved their lives”   I would tell the doctor you believe it could work for you and want to give it a shot.  We are our best health advocate…..and this isnt your 1st time at the rodeo either!!

I never recommend suboxone to anyone, but based on your posts, and your struggles with tapering and quitting, I do believe you would be a good candidate for suboxone, but then again, im not a doctor, just a fellow oxy addict....

Good luck on Monday and keep us posted.

Penny

[mr.lucky66]

Both these drugs do a similar thing, detox, or harm reduction or replacement therapy. It all depends on which purpose you want to use them for. If it's for a holding pattern or replacement- harm redution I would suggest low dose methadone. Sub is a money hole and an easy way for some docs to make money who don't know much or care about addiction. Methadone is also easier to work with if you have an emergency and need narcotics.

[worried878]

reading above posts....do know u gotta watch out for detox drs out there making a killin...here is my state.methadone is 13 bux a day til u earn taken home privilidges...then much cheaper as u reach a 1 x a wk status...sub varies..both r strong...i am personally more afraid of sub after  having done both...sub bites....2 mgs of   sub for a 80-100 mg hydrro habit sent me flying,,,good i guess but not our ultimate goal here on the forum..I was like "WOW  I LOVE THIS STUFF!...it was just a few pillls i had...like 12 but geex they were nice...friend gave em to me...methadone i was prescribed for pain...up to 30mgs.....had no urge to abuse as i got no nrg from mdone...the more i took the tireder i felt...-when i finally quit my doc///those were fillins...i did a quick taper til i had a 4 day weekend and said  "Dont ever look back except to learn, and even then dont dwell there long/it will drag u down"  Always move forward...I was a hydro user for 4 yrs....just know u cant bounce around too much....when u r sick and tired of being sick and tired...u will begin to stop the action that is making u so so so so tired///so so so sick and tired..
the ritual that makes you/anyone continue over and over to post here....even tho u have posted the same info before...then u realize no one can make u stop but u..u make a plan putting all the balls in ur court after researching everything u can to beat this disease (the health pages rock)   then one of the prime success factors is adding aftercare...it is work..almost seems like too much work...but continuing to us is gonna be alot of work//believe me!
When the desire to quit exceeds the desire to use...forward progress can be made     GTM

[worried878]

LOL...Kevin spotted my typs...i am terrible and this i know....fillins...means fill in..when i was outa my doc...geex/geez

Continuing to USE is a ton of work!   anyway i do think my point was made in spite of my infamous typs....which should be decreasing as i have more time....laid off from my job...so not so busy...but stress hits u majorly....no job is stressful///a sign of the times i think

[christos24]

I would truly disregard going back to the methadone clinic and  starting that...with the level of opiate addiction you have suboxone is much more suitable for your case, methadone would only cause you to get into an even worse addiction and you truly become a slave to the clinic which you need to go every single day...whereas suboxone you go see an addiction specialist or therapist, youll explain the severity of your oxy use and length of time, and decide how much suboxone you should be started on. Youre not on a very high dose of oxy and by no means does it call for methadone to be brought into the picture, im now a slave to the methadone clinic every single day of my life, i wish i could take it back and never had started, but my addiction level was soo high they said that subs wouldn't hold me and methadone was my best choice, but for yourself suboxone all the way, a definite no to methadone it will only further destroy your life. this is from personal experience, long sessions with opiate addiction specialist and therapist and i can tell you what they will say, start on suboxone, theyll write you a script, you go pick them up take your daily dose and you will be completely fine, no wds at all, very little chance of cravings, and youll feel like your gaining your life back, its exhilarating and wonderful, trust me, it also has a 37 hour half life so it keeps you well for two days at least, so you will be all good..on starting subs for the first time you just need to be at least 12-24 hours without using any opiates cuz say if you took a bunch on oxies and then took a sub it would put you instantly into precipitated withdrawal syndrome, which is the worst thing ever, ungodly brutal...so just to be safe make sure the last time you use any opiate you give yourself at least 12 hours before starting the suboxone and youll be feeling normal and good within 30 minutes..if you have any questions or just want to vent or get advice let me know anytime message me or whatever, best of luck, you def. can do this...Christos

[whitie]

I thought I found the ultimate savior in methadone, made me feel perfect,just like sub does for people.......little did I know at the time, that I was just getting hooked on a REPLACEMENT opioid. 1 1/2 years later of methadone, I noticed my body and mind are still opioid addicted, which is not what I want. just like all others that have been down the methadone and sub route, the longer you take these replacement opioids and the more you are on, the harder it is going to be to shake.

I personally would say avoid them,unless its absolutely neccessary(which is what the mind is going to tell you anyhow)

maybe there is a reason the doc is suggesting the 'done?  

there is no easy answer, but after what I went through to get off the 'done, I am very anti replacement opioid.

[123456m]

Your one of the most knowlegdeable folks we have here and you have posted a whole lot and helped many.
What I am going to say is radical but I know it can be done.
I had a good friend that was at doses higher than you. He wanted to really quit.
So long story short he went out bought a ounce of very high grade pot.
He started on a weekend so his body would get use to the pot as he never really was a pot smoker and certainly not his DOC. He smoked a lot morning afternoon and night he did this for 10 days while taking chondline and 2mg of valium for sleep. He stopped the opiates ct but with the amount of pot and the potency of it he never experienced cravings or wds. At 10 days he stopped the pot ct and was very nicely surprised that after 2 days off the pot still nio wds he got through it. In effect the pot was able to numb him enough to just quit and he knew that since pot has no physical wds at all that he could stop on a dime with it. It was a very good and sucessful head distraction for him while he was detoxing. To do anykind of replacement opiate therapy to me is leading down to a long and harmful path so I would for sure try this method first.
Peace and all the best

[mr.lucky66]

That might have worked for one person, smoking pot but generally it's a bad idea for an addict. Someone else wrote that you should go to a subdoc because they are "addiction specialist". I beg to differ. Most of the one's I've seen don't have a clue about opiate addiction cross tolerence etc. They just took a weekend course to get on board and start making more income. Another poster  also stated correctly that  sub and methadone are replacement treatments unless you use them for shorter periods. If you go on sub or methadone maintenence your brain is still opiate addicted.  That may not be a bad thing if you need "harm reduction treatment"Choose wisely.

[whitie]

I must say pot did very little for me when it comes to WD's.  perhaps it was the length of time and amount I was on........... I personally have nothing against it,even though it does have its draw backs too.....all mind altering drugs do.

yes,facts are facts. and sub and methadone is nothing but a replacement opioid , and opioids are narcotics. then there is the debate about cost and the whole "sub and 'done"system as a whole,with the socalled "specialist"