Methadone - dose 80-110 wearing out after 4-5 hours??

Anyone out there know how long methadone doses of 80 to 110 mg hold before WD's begin? Is it usual for it to "burn out" in 4 to 5 hours then WD starts, or is that a big story?

[hellc@mst]

no thats not typical.an addict may require twice daily dosing but once a day seems to work 4 most.If sum1 is starting 2 wd after 4 hrs from their dose its usually because they havnt had enuff or they have a high metabolism or they are telling tales.Either way a simple blood test(peak and trough and a serum level) can identify these issues.Pain patients howeva are a little different.Because the peak analgesia is reached after 4 hrs,often 4X daily dosing is needed.
Regards J

[NewLeaf]

Thanks. They only dose 1 a day. His dose is 110 and hers is 80. They always dose around noon and he always starts WDs around 4:30 in the afternoon. Most of the day he would just lay in bed.

[wait2long]

i was only on 20 mgs. of methadone and it took 5 days for my withdrawals to start, it is EXTREMELY long lasting...i would have to say its a BIG story....as a matter of fact i dont know of 1 person who has stopped methadone and was sick within 4-5 hours....may i ask why you are asking this?

[wait2long]

the more i think about your post, the more i am convinced that its definately a big story, why the story? i dont really know but you should ask the "storyteller" and see what the excuse is...good luck hun...

[NewLeaf]

I ask because my daughter & her husband are on methadone to help stop their heroin addiction. She has been the one that got a job, taking care of the three children doing all the feeding, clothest washing etc., while he just laid down in bed doing absolutely nothing for the last 3 months at my sisters. My daughter even hired a babysitter so he go go out an get a job but he just stayed in the bedroom not loo,ming for a job or after the kids.... now they are out on the street asnd again she is the one who lot her job and is now cleaning motel rooms to keep a roof over their heads while he doesn't work but "looks after the kids". I suspect he is not on methadone and the leaving his system after 4 hours is a story because he is back on heroin. She is stupid to stay with him but no one can tmake someone else do athing, only change what they themself will do so I can only sit back and hope the children will survive as CPS does nothing. At least for today I know they aresafe and she has given the lazy B**** the utimatium that job by wednesday or gone.

So now you know more of the ugly nightmare that addiction has wrought in my family and I struggle to hope the children will be safe and soon I will have enough legal issues to get the kids away and in a stable place.  

Peace to you all.  PS. I know my daughter is still on methadone since I went to the clinic this morning in order to find her and the grandkids. We talked for several hours.

[wait2long]

i would have to agree that he probably is back on heroin, which leaves your daughter holding all the responsibility for kids and everything else that pops up, if he is still on heroin, most places of employment do drug screening and maybe that is why he wont get a job because he knows he will flunk the drug screen? but please be supportive of your daughter in her efforts to get clean and stay clean, methadone is the normal route to go for heroin detox and actually is better because there is no high (if not abused) and gives people the chance to get their lives on track, she should be in weekly therapy and working hard at getting her dose as low as she can, its better than her buying on the streets, being on the streets and using needles...but she will eventually want/need to get off the methadone, and that is another challenging situation that she will have to face.    take your daughter and the kids away, it sounds like she is doing her part, and if you take her kids from her it could send her into a tailspin in the wrong direction...again...take them all now and help her and the kids and leave him to suffer on his own quietly for refusing help when it was offered....there is no methadone clinic up here in the boondocks where i live, not much for options here for any type of drug addiction help....he should have felt fortunate to have options for help, but sounds like he passed it up for heroin....keep us posted ..peace and love

[Savas]

Well... he could be on both. Contrary to what they say, it doesn't "block other opiates". Many people end up with double addictions. It could also be other drugs, like benzo's.

It could be he's on to high a dose. There's a "snap back" effect you can get if you're on too much methadone, but that happens more at 12 hours. And methadone does cause lethargy, alot of MMTP patients complain of loosing the drive to work, advance in life, have sex... etc... it IS a horrible, horrible drug, that does nothing to help addiction.

But if he's complaining about withdrawal after 4 hours, he's lying about SOMETHING.

[wait2long]

i have to disagree with the statement that methadone does nothing for addiction...if used properly for short period of time it does its job...its the clinics that have it wrong with the extra high doses for extended length of time.  as much as i wished i never took that first methadone pill, i do credit it to an extent of getting me going in the right direction, definately better than spending hundreds of dollars over just a few days to buy enough percocets which was just enough to keep me well, at that point in my life it wasnt about getting high anymore, it was about being well enough to crawl out of bed in the morning to care for my 3 boys. and as bad as methadone is( i do agree it is a nasty drug if used wrong), i still would choose that over the percocet lifestyle anyday...but then again i was on a very low dose and kept it that way for 9 months...(20 mgs)

[Savas]

Sorry, you're right, I said that hastily. What I meant was as an alternate drug to heroin, it is acceptable for substituting the addiction and since it is cheaper (or free), you can stop spending all the time "chasing the dragon" and get your life back together. But to be honest, if you give an addict any opiate regularly for free, even heroin, they can function and live a normal life.

What I meant by that was that it DOESN'T block opiates like they claim, and doesn't help fight "cravings".
Most addicts, by the time they get desperate enough for MMTP, are just "maintaining". A lot of MMTP patients who get on methadone and stay clean I've found are no longer interested in getting high, they just don't want to be sick anymore (like me). I see *a lot* of MMTP patients who abuse other drugs, I'm doing a survey through the harm reduction centers (and hopefully area clinics) that will compile data on MMTP patients and additional drug abuse right now.
     I'm HOPING I can get it published/ get notice with it so we can push for alternate detox treatments, since the studies you see now are horrifying, done VERY poorly, and all support MMTP. They go like this;

WE took a 300 pateints, put 150 on MMTP, the other 150 we began to Methadone Taper detox. For help with this, we offered therapy, group sessions, and had a guy follow them around and kick them in the *ss every half hour.

Only 3% of the Taper patients stayed in treatment and successfully detoxed. We conclude that Methadone Maintanance is the only viable addiction treatment,

wait2long, we were on right at the same time just now! Dude!!!

[wait2long]

the methadone really did cure my cravings...BUT maybe its because i really really wanted to be better also...i was committed...mind over matter type of thing....and yes...all i really cared about was "NOT BEING SICK ANYMORE!"   i definately had enough of that lifestyle...i would be interested in results of that study you were talking about....what part of the u.s. do you live in, iam in N.H....

[Dave W.]

Methadone has a very long half-life. If someone doesn't know what that means:it's how long a
drug will stay in your system and do the job it was supposed to be used for,or at least that's
what I assume from a non-doctor standpoint.Please correct me if this is not right. Everyone
has to learn what is a myth or fact when dealing with these nasty drugs. I personally have
to take about 20mg in the morning and about at least the same before bedtime,just to function
nornally,or get at least 6 hours of sleep,even if that's not normal for an addict like myself. The
main downfall to myself being on Methadone is the fact that it totally chokes my pain meds from
working properly. When I was off the done for about 5 weeks,the pain meds worked fine,but I
too was going throuh a wickedly fast 4-5 hour withdrawl (withdrawal) from the pain meds,which was just worse
than just staying on the done and not having withdrawls when I would stop the pain meds. Everyone
is different,though. Was the dose you were describing a twice daily thing or a total for the day?
Twice daily doses of that size and having withdrawls so fast,just doesn't seem right to me,but like
I said earlier,everyone is different and meds attatch to their receptors differently or not at all. Hope
this helps someone. God Bless.

[Savas]

Doctors use that word "cravings" kind of loosely. I always took it to mean "emotional cravings", they mix it up with withdrawal symptoms. I suppose one way it does help is you can't get "high" on methadone (just sleepy) so you don't get accidental "reminders" from taking to much heroin when you were trying to maintain yourself. But like you, I was tired of the whole thing, and just wanted to stop. I think most successful MMTP patients are like that, not interested in getting high, just want to be "normal". If I'd been detoxed instead of going on methadone, I wouldn't have relapsed.
     Then again, I'm allergic to fentanyl, which almost ALL street H is cut with now, so I got REALLY sick when using at the end. It had a Pavlovian effect on me. Just THINKING of doing H makes me nauseous now!  (You think withdrawal was bad, try allergic reaction to opiate based fentanyl mixed with H, causes toxic shock)
I'll post the results or a link when it's done, I'm waiting on approval, but it looks like a go.
I'm in NYC which is the clinic capital of the world!!!

Dave, I'm sorry about the pain mes situation. It generally complicates methadone dosing. The worse thing about pain meds is they just seem to stop working when the body adjusts to them. I've known people who upped there meds as high as possible, and are now addicts who are always in pain. The meds just don't seem to touch the pain anymore. And withdrawal accentuates the pain terribly!

[Dave W.]

Very true,I've been in that boat for years. I was taking hundreds of mg of oxy per day,and it never
touched my pain. I almost thought that it was causing my pain to be worse at times,that's why
I tried to get off both drugs,but I lost. I'm not taking as much oxy now,since it only made me feel
horrible and never helped the pain. Hopefully when I see my new PM Dr. in a few weeks,he will
get me off the oxy and find something that will help. My old PM Dr. just kept giving me excuses
when I wanted to switch my meds. He tried to help me,but just became a waste after a few years
on the same meds that I was so used to and upping them all the time,without his knowledge,
obviously,since if he knew how much I was taking,he probably would have cut me altogether,right?
I couldn't lose the Methadone at least,so I just kept taking the worthless pain meds. I used to say
to myself that something was better than nothing,but now I'm not sure.

[NewLeaf]

The 80 & 110 wre single dosages. One for my daughter and one is her husband. They dose once during the day between 10AM & Noon.

[road2recovery]

i don't know anything about methadone...But i see so many are helping you..just know i am praying for you and your grandkids....your pain is felt by us all here..
Please keep posting and let us know how everything goes..I know god will protect your grandkids and your daughter, just don't forget how much prayers work, and you have alot praying for you here.
God bless you
R2R

[wait2long]

those are both very high doses...i doubt his runs out in 4-5 hours...did you have the chance to ask him?

[Dave W.]

I take my doses twice a day,so I don't have to worry about not having the Methadone not work
at night,when I need it most to sleep. Maybe if they were to do the same,they would not run into
that issue as bad. Keep in mind,that evryone is different and it may not work as well,but I say give
it a try,it can't hurt,just help. Good luck and hope I could help someone. (Sorry about the way my
posts are coming out,my computer is all messed up,too.LOL. Only joking,Keep the Faith People)