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Methadone Maintanence
by jgoggans, May 27, 2003 12:00AM
Hello,
I began a Methadone Maintanence Program 9 days ago, with my 2nd dose coming today. During the interview stage with a counselor, I was told that caffeine would adversely affect the Methadone I was receiving. Is this true? And if so, is there some sort of chemical reaction or interference at the opiate receptors, or is she just generalizing about the effects of caffeine on patients in this type of program?
Thanx...
JG
I began a Methadone Maintanence Program 9 days ago, with my 2nd dose coming today. During the interview stage with a counselor, I was told that caffeine would adversely affect the Methadone I was receiving. Is this true? And if so, is there some sort of chemical reaction or interference at the opiate receptors, or is she just generalizing about the effects of caffeine on patients in this type of program?
Thanx...
JG
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Be aware that during the summer months, especially in the south where it gets hot, that a lot of outside activity that makes you sweat will cause a sort of "mini-detox" kind of effect. By 'mini-detox', I mean that (at least for me) you feel like you were short dosed or due for another dose.
When I was on it, I tried playing 18 holes of golf several times. Buy the 9th, I was feelin' kinda rough.
Anyway.. its not a big deal if you know about it.
Peace,
Methman
There are several people including myself that know where you are at so don't be shy, use us!
Bill
For me caffine didn't effect the methadone abit. MrM you'd the man! Of course Elvis makes it all better, don't cha think?. LOL
If you get a chance, please look down low in the threads for "NoTriplicates". In particular, the "oxycotin detox and methadone maitnance" thread.
I thought maybe you could help him with some of the questions he has.
Thanks,
Methman
Thanx for your information, Doctor. I found it highly informative and I believe that I can continue my intake of Dr. Pepper without serious side effects. I don't drink any other caffeinated beverages so I might only slightly decrease my intake of the Dr. Pepper just to make sure. The worse part of physical withdrawal for me was the alternating chills/hot flashes/sweat breakouts. I can see how caffeine could contribute to that part of the physical aspect of withdrawal.
Now, to briefly answer a few of the other replies:
My pre-program experience with Methadone is very extensive. About 5 years ago I quit taking all other opiates/opiate synthetics except Methadone in an attempt to put some stability back into my life. At first I was pretty successful. However, as my tolerance increased, so did my intake. Luckily, (depending on your perspective) I have a friend who is the most prominent Pill Dealer in this 5 - county area of Eastern KY, so that my demand never did outpace his supply. It was the cost of the Methadone that finally directed me to a clinic which has only been open here for about a year. Many of you who read this sentence may find it hard to believe, but the last time I used an illicit dose of Methadone was on May 18 and I ingested 600 mg in a single dose. On top of the Methadone, I also ingested 14 mg of Alprazolam. The cost of the Methadone & Alprazolam was $778.00. Except for a slight swelling and redness of the eyes, it would not have been apparent that I had taken anything. Of course, I never suspected or conceived that 5 years ago that I would take that much Methadone at one time. Especially considering the fact that the first time I ever got my hands on some Methadone (about 11 years ago) I came as close to dying as I have ever come as a result of drug use. Here is a little background about how I got my first Methadone. I had a friend back then whose Mother worked as a nurse in a Terminal Cancer Facility in Pittsburgh. Whenever a patient of hers would die, instead of disposing of their medication she would smuggle it out of the place and stockpile it until my friend would travel from East KY to Pittsburgh, maybe 2-3 times a year, and pick it up and bring it back and sell it to me for perhaps 10% of its street value. For example, I could buy Dilaudid 4mg for $5/tab, MS Contin 30, 60, 100mg for $3, $5, $10/tab respectively. There were Percocets, Roxicets, Vicodins - in short, any opiate medication you could name. And not just tabs. He brought Ampules of Morphine, Talwin, Dilaudid, Valium; he brought the pre-loaded Morphine & Dilaudid syringes. Before my tolerance went through the ceiling, my refrigerator was as well-stocked as any Hospiptal Pharmacy. I didn't sell any of the stuff. I would give it away to my closest friends. Yeah, it was indeed the ultimate connection. Anyway, one of the times my friend brought me his load, there were 20 little white tablets among the rest of the stuff that I didn't recognize, nor was there a picture of them in my 1985 PDR. I finally ran out of everything except those 20 tabs. At last, while sitting around my apartment on a Sunday and jonesing a little, I decided to try them out. I took 4 of them. Although I didn't get very high or euphoric, they did relieve me very much so that I knew they were some sort of pain medication. The next morning before I left work, I took 8 of the tabs. By 10:00am I was feeling very strange. No euphoria, but a very strong sedation and slight head-ache. I had no idea what sort of opiate these tabs were, and at the same time, I wasn't convinced that they were the reason I was feeling so strange, yet not feeling any withdrawal symptoms. The next morning, I took the remaining 8 tabs. I sincerely thought I was going to die that day. My job at that time was as an inspector on a water-line construction project with sites many miles apart. I told the guy I was inspecting I was going to the other site. My head was hurting so bad that I could barely open my eyes, and the pain of it nauseated me terribly. I couldn't stand without severe disorientation. Instead of going to a hospital, I drove to a nearby little-used cemetery and laid down in my car for the next 8-10 hours. The severity of the overdose subsided during that time so that I was able to drive the 1 hour trip back home, although I was still very much sedated. When I got home I told my wife I feeling bad and went to bed. Well, I didn't experience any withdrawal symptoms for several days, and it was 10 days before I had a bowel movement. I knew that whatever I had taken was something I had never experienced before. I remembered that some of the Oxycodone tabs that had come from Pittsburgh had been in blister packs and had been made by Roxane Labs, and had the number 54 on the tab. The unidentified little white tabs also had a 54 on them over top of the number 142. On a hunch, I got the phone number for Roxane Labs out of my PDR and called and asked them to identify the tab. The lady on the phone said that it was a Methadone 10mg tablet. Just to be sure, I re-checked my PDR in the Generic Section under products made by Roxane Labs. Sure enough, although there was no picture, 10mg Methadone tabs were described as white, round, scored and inscribed with the numbers 54 & 142. Then I went to the product description section to read about Methadone's indications & usage etc. When I read the part which told about the drug's half-life and general lack of euphoria, extreme sedation, constipation and other side-effects, I finally understood what had happened to me. Although, it was many years before I saw Methadone again, I never lost the respect for it that I had developed. When I think about what 200mg over 3 days almost did to me back in 1992, and then think about how I was able to ingest 600mg in a single dose 10 days ago, well, it blows my mind thinking how much my body has changed over the last 11 years. I know I'm lucky to be sitting here typing this story, because I have heard how many people Methadone has killed due their lack of understanding of the drug's half-life and strength. I was so used to using opiates that had an extreme amount of euphoria that Methadone's lack of euphoria caused me to underestimate its strength. As far as withdrawing from Methadone, 2 weeks ago I was ingesting anywhere from 800mg to 1200mg/week. As I said earlier, the last illicit dose I took was 600mg 10 days ago. May 20 I began the interview process for joing the Clinic. I got my first dose, 45mg, on the 26th of May. I went cold turkey for 8 days from Methadone and I have to say that the the overall (physical, mental, psychological etc) withdrawal effects were nowhere near as bad as what I remember they were for Dilaudid. I once received over 100 Dilaudid 4mg tabs from my Pittsburgh connection and injected them all over a period of about 10 days and I had never been so sick in my life as when the Dilaudud was gone and I slipped into withdrawal. I've heard a lot of people say that withdrawing from Methadone is worse than any other opiate/opiate/synthetic, but personally I have to disagree. Anyway, 3 days into Methadone Maintanence, I am not getting anywhere near as much Methadone as I was used to, and it hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. The psychological aspect has been much harder than the physical but I'm so grateful to be where I am now, knowing that I will get a litle something every day, and only spending $90/week as opposed to @$1,000/week. Well, I've gone on enough about this...I welcome any comments and I will be glad to answer any questions anyone out there may have.
Be safe,
JG
I have been on Methadone for 1 year and I NEED and want to be off of it. They had me at 100Mg a day for awhile and I now have it down to 20Mg a day. Can you help me with how I might go about tapering more and more than to none ??
Thanks 9years
We all can share different stories with you but you are the one that will be hurting. MrM, Methman and me all have been thru this many times. Methadone doesn't have to hurt so bad if you take care of yourself first and during the mental fog.
Ask and ye shall receive! (Peazy, that's ones for you)!
BTW stay clear of that chic?lol
Bill
If you've tapered yourself from 100mgs down to 20, then that is a hell of a good job!
Everyone's experience is different when coming off their DOC. I was on a max of 65mgs daily for 16 years. The only time I had any real problems with feeling rough was when I went under 5mgs. BUT.... during my taper, I was inpatient and under a doctor's care. They slapped an Ativan patch on my arm, Clonidine for the blood pressure spikes and I was in pretty good shape all the way down to 10mgs. At 5mgs, I could feel the detox but it wasn't really that big a deal. 24 hours after my last dose was when I hit bottom. I think the taper was too fast from 10mgs down to zero, which took only 10 days.
If you are not having any chronic pain problems (which will change everything), I'd suggest going down 1mg every month once you get to around 12mgs. It'll take you a year to do it, but you should feel a lot less effects.
Also, if you are at 20mgs now from 100mgs, I'd suggest starting to use a multi-vitamin suppliment to help your body begin to rebuild itself.
Finally, check out the "Thomas Recipe". Numerous people here have it and would be happy to share it with you. It'll help you keep your energy level up along with several of the other effects of withdrawing off methadone.
Expect to be tired, weak, legs & arms tensing up while you're TRYING to go to sleep, sleeplessness, diahrea and what is fondly referred to as "brain fog". That's where your mind won't work very well or simply won't work at all. Also (and this is a big one), keep a good eye on your blood pressure. Mine skyrocketed during detox. But if you're under a doctor's care, he/she can easily take care of that issue along with many of the others.
Take it slow. The most important thing I can tell you is to "Believe in yourself." If you want off the stuff, you can do it. And when you need help, ASK. There are a lot of people here that would love to help you as well as many professionals that will too. The problem is.. you've found us. Finding a professional that cares without judging is another story. They're out there.. you just gotta look.
Good luck!
Peace,
Methman
peace hippy
Cannabis abuse I guess! LOL
Now brain fog I know all too well. Ask Peaz, she'll tell ya I ain't quite right(that's quat rite in hillybilly)!
I find myself actually having fun helping people instead of fighting with people here. What a concept hey? I don't see butterflygirl anywhere do you? LOL Peace, BillthebassidiotfromBama!
So....What's up w/ this "ask and ye shall receive" ****? Let's go there for a minute.......:-) Peazy
Hmmm, perhaps I should check out the Methadone maintenance, where you get a regulated steady daily dose that you can even raise when you start getting a tolerance to it.
Everyone says you don't get high from methadone, well i don't really get high from the pain pills anymore, but I do feel like I am at the top of my game so to speak when I am on them. Is that how methadone is? Do you take it for a feeling, or do you take it solely to aviod the withdrawal feeling?
Thanks for any feedback.
Thomas
1-reason is ,for pain , people in chronic pain
find releif with it ,,when it comes to people with chronic pain
it is totaly different situation , then drug addicts
who have lived lives of useing drugs for the sole purpus of getting high.
# 2 , drug addicts who can not stop useing drugs like oxy, percs ,vikes etc , use methadone to get there lives back
,
i know a lot of people who were strung out on herion or oxy's
and are now on strict metadone program, it cost them 100 dallars a week. but they are now able to wrk and don't have to worry about finding there next fix ,
there seems to be a lot of confusion , with addicts who
are not informed about chronic pain patients.
this fourm is for both type of people.
it has been my experence that some drug addicts just getting clean or have been clean for a while need to have more
understanding and respect for those in chronic pain.
some addict who get clean sometimes get on a holy then thou
soap box and start preaching topeople in chronic pain.
i have found that most people with chronic pain are well informed
my own feeling are that they have a very difficult road ,
and the last thuing they need is some body trelling them they
need to get clean, and sadly i have seen this happen on
more then a few occasions here at this fourm.
i have close freinds in chronic pain and thier lives are
very tough, i have had my own experence with severe pain ,
and i felt like i was trapped under water or in a tight box,
it was a bad experence. i am so glad that my pain got better.
i still suffer from pain but not nearly as bad as it has been.
My former feelings about methadone were 1) before I was using opiates, and 2) are independent of the questions I asked. That was a sincere, serious, honest post. Sorry you took offense to it.
As far as increasing your dose, in my experience with being with someone in MMT, the clinics adjust your dose level based on how you report you are feeling. So if you said you were not feeling much from it, or it was wearing off throught the day (as some people here even reported) they would adjust your dose accordingly. Again, based on the persons feedback. My g/f had her dose increased after a year on the same dose, she told them it was wearing off in the second half of the day.
As far as people not getting their doses increased, I know clinic policies vary. My only definitive knowledge on that is I have read individual accounts that some have a dose cap (80mg, 100mgs, 120mgs). And some have a certain increment amount for increases/decreases (ie: one person reported they only raise and lower in 5 mg increments. At my g/fs clinic, they would adjust in lower increments.
I know a little about it, I definitely don't claim to be an expert, and I certainly didn't wish to start an argument (if I did, I wouldn't be sublte about it).
My question above was serious. Thanks for your reply, I hope for more feedback.
Regards,
Thomas
Anyway, I know they have a dark side - the tollerance and addiction, and I know I can't do this forever, that's why I was asking that q about methadone. Mr. M, you could just say, no, it's not like that, perhaps explain it a little.
Seriously, I did not mean to offend. It was a serious Q.
Again, thanks feedback.
Regards,
Thomas
got to run, regards,
Thomas
Kinda like that machete idiot! Wildidiotperson
Bmac
>>> He made a comment about me, saying why don't I ever try to get clean
Not sure who you are talking about, but if you are saying that about me, i will go on record saying I *never* said that to you.
Strike my last post, I read yours wrong.
- T
I hate butchers, sorry I meant surgeons! LOL
Come to my office on Monday. I'll be removing your typing hand and frontal lobe.
Oh... you DO have insurance, don't you? Heaven forbid I should have to work pro bono. Well.. that and after hours. I do have a golf game to attend.
One thing you know about me is I have been through alot with several so called Medical doctors that It makes me sick. I always use to rag them when I would pass them in the hall with hey doc got your triplicate on ya? I loved it. I even called one an ******* as they were putting me under for surgery. I guess I am lucky to have made it through that operation, one of 10,000 I have had! Well old Bmac will let us cut on him and play with his spine, Just offer him some morphine! LOL
Well MethBro, Keep it comin'! Bill
Hellbent was a guy that always started trouble and could never get past it! We all have had fights and arguements here and sometimes things get ugly but we are all addicts so the management 'Cindy and Phil' put up with our **** because we help people and we were there just a few short months ago.
You can find friends for life here. You need to post alot and get it all out! Bill
Anyway, they both got banned for being way out of hand, and not having any control over themselves and their postings. (as far as I could see it).
That and hellbents truthmeter I think was broke.
Bmac is right. For those of us who have been here a while, we have recognized the fact you can meet people here that just may be there for you or vs. for a long time.
Chezz
I laughed my ass off when you mentioned the marriage of those 2 characters. Yeah, they got a little out of line, and I think that banned is what they got. Nice to see you here Chad.... Also, nice to see all of you "Veterans" from another board checking back in here!
Jess
Sounds like everyone else is doing some sort of the same.
Glad to hear from ya,
Chezz