Methadone Use and Thyroid Disease

[Thyroid Girl]

I am searching for any information about Methadone maintenance and Thyroid Disease.  I have hypothyroidism, more specifically, Hashimoto's Disease.  I've had half of my Thyroid Gland removed, and am taking Synthroid.  I am also on Methadone maintenance.  The symptoms of thyroid disease are very similar to methadone withdrawal symptoms. I need to know if Methadone has any negative effects on people with Thyroid Disease.  PLEASE HELP!!  If anyone knows of a website or has ANY info that might be of help to me in my search for information, PLEASE let me know.  It will help me tremendously.  Thanks.

[Pinkit]

I have a question about vicodin withdraw.  I have been on vicodin for a year and a half for back pain and endometreosis.  I was taking 8 tabs of the 7/750 mg.every day for the past 10 months. I can not go to a detox program because of family commitments. I started seeing another doctor for addiction and she is trying to wean me off it. She is a family doctor who I'm very comfortable talking with. She wants me to be weaned off the vicodin within 8 days. I don't think I can do it though. She has me taking 5/500 mg odf vicodin. The plan is to have me take 8 today, 7 tomarro, 6 the next day, then 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I am having so much trouble doing this. She has me taking Ativan for the anxiety associated with withdraw. I'm also going to start counciling next week. Has anyone ever succeeded getting off this drug this way. I was thinking maybe she could put me on another type of opiate with a longer half life that wont addict me. Like methadone or something like that. I know methadone is also addictive, but it takes longer to get addicted than what vicodin does. Is this possible.  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thank You.

[Bodymechanic]

Withdrawal is always uncomfortable. The question is how do you make it as easy as possible on yourself. What is your doctor's rush to get you off the drug. You would be ALOT more comfortable if you dropped 1/2 a tablet every 4 days. You could be off in 2 months with less of a chance of relapsing.

If you want to use the substitute method of detox use clonodine, xanax and darvon. That should have you off very comfortably in 10 days or less.  

Leave the methadone to the hard core addicts like myself. Methadone is very easy to get addicted to and is very hard to get off of.

Peace

[percsnomas]

TG.: sorry can't help you with that one....maybe Dr.Thomasello(sp) could shed some light here.

Pinkit: Firstly welcome!!
A few things.... first off, the taper schedule seems a lit'l aggressive. The general rule of tapering is THE LOWER, THE SLOWER.(based on percentage reduced)
Secondly, be careful with the ativan. It might be worth while switching that with a longer acting benzo(like valium), for the initial detox period. (ie. shouldn't be on it much past 5-6 days after you are at zero vikes; again presuming you stick to the 8 day taper).
Thirdly, for a habit you're size, switching an 8 per day vike habit for meth. would be trading a monkey for a gorilla.
Lastly, you should look up the Thomas Recipe and start it ASAP. It will help with the w/d's, and the poor energy that accompanies them.  Take Care

[MethMan]

Yeah... percsnomas is dead on with the monkey vs. gorilla thing.  Had I known what the use of methadone was going to do to me long term, looking back over 10+ years of methadone use, I would have absolutely taken the hit on the pills vs. a methadone kick.  It's rough.  ALL WD's are rough, but I've been through pill WD and it was pretty short term compared to Methadone.
All I can say is different strokes... just get ALL the info up front before you opt for methadone.

God Bless,
Mike

[hellbent]

In my opinion, using methadone for a habit like that would be madness. Tapering down is the only way to go for a relatively comfortable withdrawal. I would suggest darvon. It's the mildest of the opioids, but has good success in tapering. Codeine is another possibility. Some Tylenol 4's or whatever could help alot, as long as you are not using them to get high, just to not get sick.

As far as your family committments, drug addiction is serious stuff, and if you keep using, if you are an addict like me, it will likely get far worse with time. How important are your commitments is relationship to you getting over your addiction? What you are doing now can kill you, especially if you keep using and your intake increases. In that context, are the commitments that important.

I'm not saying you need rehab or anything, I didn't go. I'm just saying that you might want to consider how far you are willing to go to get out of this thing. Most addicts who don't make getting clean priority #1 don't get clean, and if they somehow do, they don't stay that way. Ok, end of sermon.

[groovygirl]

I too take synthroid...it is a totally natural thing that your body produces.  Since it is all-natural, I don't think it would interact with Methadone in any strange way...I'm not in the medical field, so I would ask your dr.

On another note, I'd like the person who gave my personal email address out to another forum member to please stand up.  This place is supposed to be all about honestly, so it would make sense that you just tell me.  If two people on the forum were fighting all the time and intensely disliked each other, would you give one of their personal email addresses to the other?  Does that seem like a nice thing to do?  What positive purpose could that serve?

No matter what the problems are here, I try to keep them here.  Thanks for any input.

[Pinkit]

Thank you so much everyone for your comments. I apreciate your caringness. To Bodymech. I went to my doctor after I posted my question. I had not even read what you wrote before I went, but my doctor did exactly what you said. She saw how uncomfortable I was and decided to change her first recommendation. She said she was going to have me take 6 5/500 for 5 days, then 4,3,2,1. I will be clean in 30 days if this goes as planned. Taking methadone is not a good idea then, right? I hope you're getting the help you need too. God bless all of you.

[MethMan]

Congrats on finding a better way.  Your doc sure sounds reasonable and willing to reconsider options best suited for his/her patients.

Think of it this way... you've been given a gift.  Take it and make it work for you.

You CAN do it.  Sure, it will be a little tough, but the payoff is far worth the initial hurt you feel.

Awesome....

Mike

[hellbent]

That's a far more reasonable schedule. Now the hard part: sticking to it. Best of luck and keep us informed.

[Pinkit]

Well day 1 is better. I'm not off the vic's, but I'm comfortable with the change in lowering my dose by 1 vic every 5 days. I am so greatful to have someone to talk to about this. I have a great husband. We've only been married for a few years. We have two wonderfull children together. That is what makes this addiction so hard. I just feel so quilty for being a mother and being addicted to perscription drugs. I guess it happenes to alot of people. It's so nice to be able to express my feelings to you guys. It's really helping me. My husband knows what's going on w/ me and he's trying to be supportive, but he doesnt really understand what I'm going through. I'm glad you guys do. It's just nice to know that there are people out there who care. Sorry, I think I'm rambling.
Hellbent,what drug are you fighting and how is it coming? Same question with you, Bodymech. I think you said methadone. I did'nt see either of your posts on the forum.
Hopefully I can answer some questions and help out as much as possible. I am going to come back daily. This seems like a great place to get started. Everyone seems so helpfull. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you and god bless. One more thing, Hellbent, you mentioned the Thomas Recipe. What is that or where can I find it.

[Bodymechanic]

As you know I have been struggling with the decision to go on methadone. I have 5 years past history with this poison and I do not take this decision lightly.  It was suggested to me by an addiction management doctor after hearing my pain and drug history as a temporary solution. Bupenorhine is not yet available in this state. He strongly suggested that I go on methadone until it is available.

There are 2 important factors in my decision.  The first is that I plan to be on methadone no more than a month. I am only using it to hold over until I can get on bupenorphine. Starting on a pain management clinic that offers bupenorphine in a month involves going out of state for a few days. Right now this is not possible.

The second and most important point is that it is not my goal to get clean. I only want to manage pain with the least side effects while keeping my life as normal as possible.  In my case, from everything I have read bupenorphine is by far the best solution for me. I dont care if I have to take bupenorphine every day for the rest of my life. I have been taking something for pain every day for over 15 years and at this point it is just a matter of substance.

My question now becomes, how difficult will it be to switch from methadone to bupenorphine?  I plan to stay with a dose no higher than 30mg a day of methadone and for not longer than a month. I only know of one other person who has switched from methadone to bupenorphine. He tells me it was very easy. I am sure soon it will be very common. I wish I had more facts but the whole drug experience is so subjective. Doing the methadone for a few weeks is by far easier than trying to doctor shop or buy drugs off the street. I especially don't want to deal with this over the holidays.  Right now I have too much pain and have too little energy to do all that.  

Like you I advise anyone to avoid methadone like the plague. I remember what the withdrawal 20 years ago was like. But as a temporary step do you think this is a good idea for me?

Your opinions and practical experience are always welcome.

Bodymechanic

[MethMan]

If you've been on Methadone in the past, then you know the downside coming off.  That said, No one should have to live in real pain all their lives and if there is something that can help you maintain a quality of life that you can not have without taking something, then it may be for you.
  As far as the Methadone/Bup transfer, like I said, I didn't have an opportunity to get Bup when I was In-patient so I can't tell you what to expect there.  But from what I've read, it shouldn't be a hard thing to transfer to.
What kind of pain are you suffering from?

God Bless,
Mike

[groovygirl]

The thing with bup is you have to be in total withdrawal to take your first dose, or else you wind up sick as a dog.  I don't know how long methadone stays in your system, but make sure it is totally out before you start the bup.

Methadone maintenance seems like a pretty hard-core thing to start if you are only planning on doing it for a month.  I would try to get by until you can start the bup, and just skip the mehtadone.  That is just my opinion...I'm no doctor.

[hellbent]

Bodymechanic, I wish I had better advice on this, but I never took Bup. I was on methadone for 21 days when I quit Oxycontin. I think it helped quite a bit, but I wouldn't want to stay on it much longer than that. I guess that the upside of done' is that it is readily available through legal channels, and can be dispensed on a daily basis. The downside, I hear, is that it is an incredibly rough kick after awhile.

It actually sounds like Oxycontin might be an option, as long as you swallow your doses, and allow the meds to be continuously released.

Pinkit, I was addicted to Oxycontin for 4 years and was also addicted to Klonopin - I got out clean 6 mos ago.

[diso]

I believe our experiences have been quite similar.  I got addicted to oxys as you may know.  At my peak I was using about 200mg a day, much less than you were.  I got that down to about 140mg a day before trying to use methadone to detox.  I started at 30mg of methadone.  The prescribing doctor didn't think it would be enough but actually I was fine on that amount.  I stayed at 30mg for 3 days before started a mg a day reduction.  I started feeling a little shitty a nights and would up in a partial withdrawal begining at about 23mg.  The day I dosed at 19mg I felt like I was withdrawing all day.  I don't know why I felt so bad so soon.  Perhaps, I am just weak.  Anyway, I realized that I would have a hard time going down any further.  I have read enough from people here to know that I did not want to switch my addiction on oxys to that of methadone.  I posted yesterday the events that got me into a detox center but a major part of my decision to get in was that I was heading into the clinic to ask them to up my dose.  I just didn't want to do that.  I believe methadone can would wonderfully for some people.  My initial experience with it was great.  However, as the dosage went down it got hard for me.  Just need to be careful with that stuff.

I took my last opiate (the methadone) a week ago Sunday (November 10th).  I still get chills, cramps, pains and worst of all I am soooo lethargic.  No energy.  It has discouraged me today because I don't feel better than I did yesterday.  Can anyone tell me if this is normal.  Also, any idea on how long I can expect to have no energy?  Thanks in advance for any comments.

[hellbent]

Don't get discouraged. You are getting through it. There is that corny phrase, "this too shall pass" - I prefer the almost as corny, "this too is passing". It may not feel like it, but your body and mind are recovering every second. It doesn't happen at the schedule we want, but it does happen if you just ride it out and assume it will get better. It definitely will.

I think that you will feel progressively better very soon, but you don't want to expect to feel better by a certain day, cause those expectations can lead you back very easily. It's ez to say "**** it, this is too hard". It's not too hard. You are as strong as you let yourself be.

When you make it out the other side and look back, you will see how getting your life and soul back was a good deal, and well worth the relatively short period of hell you went through.

You've got 9 days, and that is a miracle. Don't give it back. Don't think you can stop some other time. This may be the last chance you get. Your OC habit was pretty damn big, and it will get worse if you go back.

[diso]

Thanks for your message and especially your encouragement.  I feel very firm in my commitment to stay clean.  I got so tired of using over the past two months before I quit, I almost feel that I have been mentally clean for quite a while now.  I don't know if that makes sense but I felt during that time that I was just using the oxys to not go through withdrawals rather than using to get high.  It has helped me out quite a bit now because I really am not craving the high.  Just hope this lack of craving lasts.  I am attending about every meeting I can make it to.  I completely believe when you say that if I go back now I could be in some very serious trouble.  My addiction escalated so fast that it is shocking.  I am now learning through groups and therapy how to avoid relapsing.  Just reading this forum each morning when I come into work has been great therapy.

If you don't mind me asking, how long ago did you kick the oxys?  Do you still crave them?  Any advice on avoiding a relapse?  Thanks again.

[hellbent]

I took my last OC80 a little over 7 months ago, but went on methadone for 3 weeks, and kept taking klonopin for a week or so after methadone, so it's been 6 months and 1 week totally clean.

I still want to eat OC's sometimes. My life now is so different. I work full time and hit meetings every night. I leave at 6am and get home at 10pm. I'm on step 9 in AA. Sometimes, gotta admit it, I feel like just putting all this work down, and getting high again. I still have dreams where I eat an 80, wake up freaking out. There are still times where it seems like a good idea, which is insane. I really almost died last time.It passes. Mostly, I am very grateful that I've been saved.

Working a 12 step program with total willingness has made the difference for me this time. For me, it's the only way I am going to make it, only way I have been making it. I have tried many times to quit on my own, or by going to meetings but not working steps or getting to know anyone. It never worked, obviously. I guess I am the addict/alkie of the hopeless type that needs to do everything they can to change.

[diso]

Congrats on over 6 months of being clean.  My last oxy was taken on Sunday morning October 27, 2002.  As mentioned, I did exactly two weeks of methadone.  I started my twelve step education last night.  I want to do everything in my power to do what the statistics say give me the best chance to stay clean.  Attending meetings regularly seems to be one so that is what I am doing.  I also work long hours.  Keeping busy seems to keep my mind of the pills.  I honestly don't allow myself idle time right now to think about them.  I have had many a dream already about the pills.  They bother me because I have waken up thinking that I have really relapsed.  I know if I slip up it will be an absolute disaster for me.  It scares the **** out of me.  I'm upset at myself for ever letting it get to the point that I did, but I am grateful to God that for some unknown reason to me I was able to recognize my problem and do something about it.  

I am grateful that I didn't get to the point that I lost my conscience completely.  Don't get me wrong, I damn near lost it.  I lied to my wife so many times.  Lied to my self a thousand more times.  But I never totally lost focus of the potential consequences and for that I will be eternally thankful.  Sounds like the battle is still a daily one even after 6 months.  Keep up the battle my friend.  Thanks once again for your response.

[lady_j_in_texas]

This is my 1st time to post, just found this site.  To 1 day, take it one day.  To hellbent, I know what u mean trading pills for meth, it sounded good in the beginning.  I was taking 30-35 10/650 hydrocodone.  Was always dope sick when I would run out and beleive u me, that was 1 thing I did not want to do.  My family did not and would not understand.  Started out very innocently, 2 herniated disc surgeries that were botched from get go, to now needing another one.  Not me, Texas is not big enough for me to go under the knife again.  As I have been on MMT for 13 months now 80mgs.  I live a better life than on pills, but the $$$money$$ does not come easily.  We have to pay and pay. I have been afraid that if I don't pay that I will be forced to detox. I have been looking into detox from meth, but am scard to death. I have read about those 4 hours detox where they put u 2 sleep.  Is it 4 real? I am 39. Does anyone have any advice 4 me?

[MethMan]

Hello!  I too am in Texas and if you've been in a Dallas, Austin, San Antonio or Houston clinic, we've probably met.

If you are ready to detox, then I would strongly suggest a doctor's input and treatment plan.  If you find the right one, they can help you ween off.  When I was in Rehab recently, I talked to the Dr. about the fast detox method.  He said that not many doctors are doing it because it is dangerous. Basically, then knock you out, then flood your system with Narcan to pull the meth outta the system.  Sometimes the people don't make it through the ordeal.  That was his opinion and I am just sharing it here.  Others may have been very successful in doing so.
Detox is not bad until you get to zero. You'll feel it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't too bad for me until a few days after the last dose.  Then, it was real hell.  I don't want to scare you off from it, because I'm on day 16 and feel OK.  Just fatigued and a LITTLE aching.
You ought to look into the "Thomas Recipe" along with your doctor's care.  They can give you stuff like clonidine and something to help sleep for the rough week.  The first 5 days are the worst.  You won't be able to sleep much at all.  But, that's where the doc can help you.
At Day 16, it's worth it.  I look back on it and have a deep respect for the whole ordeal.
I am not a doctor, just an addict.  But, these are the things that have helped me get through the rough spots, so I felt an obligation to share them with you.


I wish you peace,
Mike

[diso]

I completely agree with Mike.  I was using oxycontin heavily before attempting a short tapering with methadone.  After a couple of weeks I decided to go cold turkey in a detox center under a doctor's care.  It was the best thing I could have done.  My doctor also told me that the rapid detox is very dangerous and that many doctors/centers have discontinued it because of the high incidents of death.  It also costs anywhere between 5-10 thousand dollars from what my research has revealed (I was so scared of detox that I really looked into it).  Anyway, my detox wasn't THAT bad.  Don't get me wrong it was hell for a few days but definitely not as scary as I thought it would be.  I am on day 10 of being clean.  I woke up this morning at 3:00 and couldn't go back to bed.  I can count on one hand the amount of times I have had insomnia.  Pretty discouraging.  The aches are still there and I still get the chills here and there but it really feels so much better to be clean.  I kick myself in the ass for getting as deep into it as I did.  I used my back pain as an excuse to get high.  

Don't be scared of detox.  You can do it.  But my recommendation for anyone is that you really need to want to be completely done with whatever you are using before you go detox.  From my very limited experience, I have found that those who go in just because the feel crappy but still want the drug just go right back to it when they get out.  The difference is that though, yes, I would still LIKE to get high off an oxy, I don't WANT to.  Its a subtle difference but right now its what motivates me.  I pray that some day the cravings will go away and that my body and mind will hate the oxys as bad as my spirit and my will currently do.  God bless.

[groovygirl]

Congratuations on making it this many days clean.  It could take up to a month to feel good again...I'm sorry if that is depressing, but I've heard that from many people.  It won't be as bad as it is for that long, but you could be lethargic and depressed for awhile.  Amino acids really help me...they help do something with the receptors...I've noticed that they give me more energy and help lift the depression.

You've made it through the bad physical stuff, now you just have to come to grips with the mental part of it...the tough part.  I hope you have some good support systems around you...are your family and friends with you on this?

[diso]

Hello there, I have been reading your encouraging posts and words of wisdom for months.  Thank you for the note.  I actually have a wonderful support system.  My marriage took a few shots during the past week when I finally decided to let my wife know how deeply I had got addicted to the oxys.  She found out about two and a half months ago that I had a prescription.  I, of couse, made up an excuse for not telling her about it by stating that I knew she would be worried if I was on pain pills.  Because the pills had been issued by a doctor, she felt hurt and bewildered that I hadn't told her from the beginning but accepted it.  I promised that I was tapering down.  The lies continued as my use increased.  I actually was using my entire script in about 10 days and then buying the remainder off the streets ($1500-2000 a month).  On my second day of detox, I decided that I shouldn't live this lie to her anymore because I thought "how can I get her help to stay clean if she has no idea how bad the problem really is?"  I told her and she was really hurt.  It was hard on me because I did this at a time when I needed her love and support the most.  Instead, she was naturally hurt, angry and felt very betrayed.  Despite these feelings, she stuck with me through the detox taking time of work to be with me and bring me as much salty foods as possible to keep my blood pressure up (which had dropped dangerously low because of the clonodine (sp)).  As my mind becomes more lucent, and I am able to recognize truly how caught up in my addiction I had become, it just kills me to think about the innumerable lies I told and the trust I have destroyed with my wife.

Thank you for the words of encouragement.  I have been depressed the past few days.  I guess I just expected to come out of detox and awake the next morning back to where I was.  My legs are cramped, the back pain that I had been masking with the pills and doing nothing to correct by stretching or otherwise has returned.  And for some odd reason my shoulders constantly ache.  I have discouragingly little energy.  I am back at work but have a very tough time concentrating which is not an option in my profession.  Right now my anger towards how I feel physically is actually a source of strength to me to not use again.  I don't know if that is a good or bad thing.  I mentioned in a post above that I was so tired of using that mentally I feel like I have been clean for much longer than I have been physically.  This has been good.  Still do NOT want to even see a pill for quite a while.

Could you please let me know which aminos you are using?  Also, I hate to say it having read as many of your posts as I have, but I am not sure what your story is.  If you don't mind, please share some of its details.  Thanks again.

[Thyroid Girl]

It is absolutely wonderful for you that your doctor has reconsidered the original plan, as it would never have worked.  The new and improved 30-day plan is one that you can make work and with relatively little discomfort from withdrawals.  I'm cheering you on (!), because methadone is a last resort.  I've been on it for nine years now.  I want to detox very badly, but medical problems have prevented it for over two years now.  Methadone treatment is expensive--about $300+ per month.  There are a lot of rules and regulations and it is very imposing on one's lifestyle.  Plus, there's always the stigma and stereotyping that goes with being a methadone patient.  You are going to be so much better off if you commit yourself to the next 29(+ or - ?)days and make it your #1 priority to stick with the plan laid out for you.  If you just STICK TO THE PLAN, you WILL MAKE IT!  Don't give in to negative feelings, either, and they WILL come over the coming days.  Stay focused on the FUTURE, and RESIST taking more pills per day than you are supposed to with everything inside you.  Be prepared for the temptations, and have a plan for dealing with them.  I suggest prayer during the trying times.  It was once said of war, "These are the times that try men's souls", but it also applies to opiate dependency.  YOU CAN DO IT!!   I know you want to.  Just focus on how wonderful it will be when you wake up one morning very soon and you won't need to take a handful of pills to get through the day; when you will no longer have to worry about where your next supply is going to come from; when you will no longer be "sick" because you haven't enough pills to last for the next few days until you can get some more; and you won't have to spend all that money on dope that is so much better spent on those you love and on getting your life back in order!  Just keep your mind on the positive, as much as possible, and you WILL make it through this.  Don't ever doubt it. -- Thyroid Girl

[Bodymechanic]

Your words are inspiring.  I remember being on methadone so many years ago.  I remember being locked in that chemical prison. I don't know what kind of medical problems you are having but there must be a way to get off. Maybe you could use a slow detox over a year.  I feel for you. Methadone maintainance although a better alternative to death and jail is a shitty way to live.

[icky]

Hi all! Ive just joined this forum and ive gotta say its one of the only things that has kept me going thru w/d. Im on day 16 of cutting out buprenorphine. In the past ive been on herion, amphetamines, ecstacy, methadone and more recently the Subutex. Its not been easy but all your comments have and are helping me, so thankyou my new found friends and i hope i can help some of you out.

To Bodymechanic: In response to going on methadone then buprenorphine. Im in England and would say deff the methadone go straight for the buprenorphine but as its not available yet to you, go on the meths but please do it short term. I was injecting herion and took methadone to come off. It was only meant to be short term but i was still on it 4 yrs later and it is N-A-S-T-Y to come off. The w/d is long and yet still acute and harsh. Moving on, i was on 100mg meths and cut my dose over time so i was on 30mg then i had the buprenorphine(subutex) and it stopped me using other opiates. You dont feel as gouched as you do meths and you can do a cold turkey without too many problems. And i had no problems switching from meths to bupre. I was on 8mg sounds low but it gave enough pain relief as 60mg+ of meths so i would definately say give it a try, good luck.

[wan2bfree]

Hi everyone I have been reading your posts for awhile now and i really have felt inspired. I really have been battling with a methadone addiction for awhile now and I am finally got myself down to 20mg. I really really want to just quite but I just don't know how to find the strength to just stop without hurting. Is there any suggestions any of you might have to help with this. I really don't want to take any other sort of narcotic because i'm afraid one thing will just lead to the next. I'm an tired all of the time and most days can't find the strength to even get out of bed because i'm so sick of this lifestyle of always having to find it and depending on it. Im so ready to be free of this but i like i said the anxiety of going through the pain scares me and that is the only thing that is holding me back. I know this may seem a little repeatative but i really need some help or some thoughts..Any encouragement will help...Thank you soo much!