Methadone and am I doing the right thing

My son came to us two weeks ago and admitted what we suspected he was indeed using heroin.He is 21 and lives at home.He admitted he had tried to quit cold turkey the week before but could not do it.His addiction is new, having tried it twice over two years.Then began smoking, then snorting,then shooting for a period of six months.The shooting up being only for 1 month.We have no insurance, no knowledge, and little to no money for long term treatment.I have no health insurance for him,and wasn't sure what to do.We contacted a methadone clinic,and it started the first day at a dose of 50.He was having trouble sleeping and he spoke to them and they raised it to 60 the next day.Within two days he was someone I did not recognize.He is trying to pop imagined pimples,has torn up his skin.He is nodding off midsentence.Sleeping alot,is constipated, babbles on and on.He has literally not left the house for two weeks except to go and get his drugs from the clinic.They of course are telling us nothing.They gave him some pamplets on how a 21 day program does not show that it works.They are planning on detoxing him over 120 days.He meets with a counseller three times a month.We are driving him to NA meetings,and waiting in the parkinglot.They put HIM??? on a sliding scale of 300.00 per month because he has no income.This of course is my debt.Which....please hear me when I say this....I will gladly pay to get my son clean.This is a huge financial committment for me.My husband is disabled and I am sole support of this family.We have NO extra money at all for this ,but I will do this.
What I do not understand is what have I gotten myself into?I feel as if I am his drug dealer now.I supply him with a drug that is making him unable to hold a conversation, much less go back to college or work.I have been reading this forum and and am afraid he may never get off of it, and his dependancy to this may be as bad as heroin.(Except for possible death,HIV,and criminal behavior)Is that true?Is it possible to get off of it in four months?I am reading about magnesium and zinc being needed to help with the withdrawl (withdrawal)'s.When do I start that,now?I mean he is withdrawing from herion but not methadone.
I wish to add my son speaks of being very committed to doing this.He lost all of his non using friends and the ones who do use he has given up.His old non using friends have heard he is getting clean and have started coming  by our house.I am so thankful for their support.He wants his life back,and a future.We are a close family and I am sit with him at all hours of the night, tell him many times a day how much I love him, and how proud I am of him..My husband is home everyday,and is very supportive.I need to know that I am doing everything I can to help him.Am I doing the right thing with methadone?

[Addicted2Pain]

From my limited experience and knowledge of methadone...

Sounds like he is on too much. I know a couple of folks who are addicted to 'done. They act similar to what you said Chance does as far as the speech and nodding off. I do know they ARE addicted to it, and they take ALOT. I don't know how much, but they support their habit by selling other pain meds, lortabs and oxy's. By the hundreds. They get all of this prescribed to them, believe it or not. That has always amazed me, but they do have legitimate pain issues.

Anuway, I am addicted to pain meds, mainly lortabs and oxy's. I too have legitimate pain/injury. I have been told by more than one doc that I will be on something for the rest of my life. Anyway, I too get a monthly script, which I go thru in no time. I then buy from my friends, until I am either broke or my sources are out. This is where the 'done comes in.

After seeing me struggle w/withdrawals, one of my sources gave me a couple of 'done pills. They told me to wait until I was in full-blown withdrawals and to take one 10mg 'done. I did and was amazed at the results. I consider myself a pretty heavy user of pain pills. Again, I was amazed at the relief I got from the 'done. Typically, I will take from one to three 'dones, one every 24 hours. For about a three day period. I have even had occasions where I only needed the first 10mg 'done, and I needed no more. But, on average, I would say one every day for 3 days. It really depends on your constitution (or his) at that point.

I still have some lingering effects from the w/d's after the 3rd day, but they are manageable. Now, keep in mind I have never done herion, so I truly don't know how it compares to hydro/oxys, but I do know I will take as much as 300 mg's a day for many days. That is why I consider myself a heavy user.

Anyway, from my experience, it seems to me that these clinics put people on way too high of a dose of 'done, and keep them on it for far too long. My recommendation would be for your son to start a taper immediately, with your help. You keep the pills, and only give him, per day, the least amount possible to get him through the day. I think you both will be surprised to find how little it will actually take to do this. I have heard that 'done is very addictive and that the w/d's are pretty bad. However, my friends that take 'done all day, every day, tell me the w/d's are no worse than the hydro/oxy w/d's are.

Chance should still expect some signs of w/d's after he stops the 'done. They are not miracle cures for w'd...nothing is. However, he will be through the worst of the herion w/d's, and may already be at that point. What he has to deal with now is the 'done w/d's. Again, a slow taper down to one 10mg pill a day, then after a week or so of that, cold turkey. Maybe drop down to 5 mg per day for another week, then cold turkey? You say he is determined to quit, and that is by far the single most important ingredient to stopping and then in recovery.

He also needs to find a support group like Narcotics Anonymous. They are free, and are pretty much available everywhere. Get him a sponsor, someone he can call 24/7, to help him when he is weak. And, he WILL HAVE periods when he is weak.

I would also get yourself into some kind of Al-Anon meetings. They are for friends/family of the addict to help them learn how to deal w/living with an addict.

Good luck to y'all, and I will have y'all in my prayers. Come back here as often as you like, and ask any questions you may have. Even get Chance to join up as he may find it helpful having other addicts to bounce ideas off of and to get and give support.

[wait2long]

i am so sorry for your troubles, i have taken methadone for 9 months, i know nothing about the clinics people go to...all i do know is that it is common procedure to take methadone to get off heroin, but keep in mind it is very difficult to get off methadone also, i would talk to him about getting on a dose that is as low as he can stand and stay on it for short of time as possible... i know of people who are on methadone for life because of legit. pain problems, but to help with addiction there is a different route to go, and by the sounds of it hes on a pretty high dose if he cant even hold a conversation...make sure he keeps up with the therapy, i never liked na or aa, but it has worked for tons and tons of people...  maybe you should check into suboxone or subutex...but then again if he is already into methadone full bore this may not be a good idea, but check it out anyway, its very expensive, but there are patient assistance programs out there for it, suboxone is what i am on, and i am just now learning that the same holds true to suboxone as methadone...lowest dose possible, shortest amount of time possible... these are just suggestions, heroin is a tough one to kick...have you checked into anytype of in patient detox, or some type of rehab center?   the one that should be helping you with this is "beachtowel", hes blunt and honest and has been there and knows more about detoxing from heroin than i do, i will post him for you...i hope i helped a little...good luck and keep us posted...love and peace

[Addicted2Pain]

I just reread your post and noticed that Chance is already going to NA meetings. Sometimes, I gloss over parts of posts :)

That is excellent and make sure he continues to do so. If he's not comfortable for any reason with his group, help him find another one.

And you should go to Al-Anon meetings yourself. You said you had little knowledge of addiction, but you will learn alot in these meetings. So, go for that if nothing else.

Oh, like I said, Chance is probably done with the worst of the heroin w/d's. Usually, the physical part of wothdrawals last up to a week, with days 2-5 being the worst. From your post, sounds like he is at least at this point. Again, now he has to deal w/the 'done taper and w/d.

Let us know how y'all are doing, OK?

[chance's mom]

Thank you for responding.It means so very MUCH to me.It helps to research,(and I do every night untill late hours).I have not written online to anyone before in a forum, and wasn't sure how to even begin,or where to go.I guess I just need help,answers,an ear.My husband and I went to a naranon meeting.Many people shared but we just couldn't.I was afraid if I spoke I would be choking out words,and unable to compose myself.When we left my husband said he felt the same way.I have not given up on the idea of going back but,perhaps another local group.Everyone just stared at us, waiting for us to speak and we could not.
Chance is going to meetings and they are helpful to him.He is determined, but I believe as you had said he will have periods when he is weak.I am fearful of that.But hopefull he will gain strength each time he reminds himself I do not use.I would imagine as any person with addictions it is so very frightening.The fear of failure,and resolve to begin again, mustering that strength.It is true of us on the outside looking in.It is a helpless feeling to have no control in anything.All I can do, and am trying to do is do my part.
Chance is on a liquid form so it is administered through the clinic.I have NO control over it.If he wants more, he simply asks to raise his controlled dose at this time.If he begins working he can get an at home dose.(pills?) I do not believe he will be given a script for anything else.At this moment he is not recognising he is overmedicated.As of today he is on a dose of 80.That sounds like alot to me.
I am so sorry for your pain,and all you have to deal with.I say this in all aspects tof your addcitions that you spoke of.I wish you strength and support,and a heartfelt thank you  for taking time out for me.I hope someday I can reach out and help someone else as you have done.My prayers to you too.

[chance's mom]

Thank you for commenting and explaining something to me.I just was thinking the methadone does help to alleviate the heroin withdrawals.So if I am hearing you right, he is now over that.Even today I noticed he was picking at himself less,and vomiting less(part of the heroin withdrawlals??)I wonder if it is true detoxing to early still makes you crave?Or is it if you substitute one drug for any other you really have not gotten clean?
In a more lucid moment I want to speak to him as you have said about his determination to be clean.The first step is to try and keep his dose as low as possible as to not have to struggle to kick this as well.My husband is going to go in and talk to the methadone personel on Monday.He plans to tell them how is acting at home, and what our ultimate goal for him is.I have been unable to find any programs in house that will do it for this cheap here in San Diego.I do hope they will even speak to him.
Chance and I  are talking about when he was using,and I am listening alot.I cry while alone as to not show my utter fear in all I am learning.I was afraid just a few weeks ago,without knowledge only my gut instinct that he would ultimately die from this addiction.I now know how justified that was. I also have some measure of hope now.I just ned to know what I am up against,and how to do my best to assist him.
Happy days to you,and sincere thanks for your words.They mean alot to me.

[wait2long]

when i was on methadone i only took 20 mgs a day, low dose but i am a big girl and it worked for me...BUT i wasnt kicking heroin, i was kicking 25-30 percocets a day, heroin is harder to get off, maybe thats why the higher dose?  not sure..but its worth asking about starting the weaning now to a lower dose...and is there anyway to get him into more therapy, more often is what i mean, i go weakly, but would go twice weekly if i could, methadone can be awesome for withdrawals if used short term, long term is extremely difficult to kick that also goes for the larger dose also...best of luck to chance,  maybe you can send him here to talk some also...or to just read the posts from other addicts...keep us posted...you are a good mom for helping and doing all you can to save your son, dont ever feel guilty about that!!!

[fishmeal]

He's just using it and you to get high.  I'm sorry to tell you that but the poor kid is addicted and he'll do and say anthing right now just to get high.

Please go to the National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine Treatment site, copy and past your quetion there after registering... this is a site strictly devoted to suboxone which is new and nothing like methadone exept that it is also an opiate.  I don't recomend this to the 10 pill a day person but it sounds like he could do well on this.

You can also go to the suboxone website and check out the videos they have... all the info and they have a zip code search engine that allows you to find a doctor near you that has the special certifications needed to prescribe this med.  After induction, he would only have to see a doctor every few weeks and then every month.  People are also using this med to get off of methadone.

[chance's mom]

The thought has crossed my mind.I am not foolish enogh to believe,he doesn't want/need the high,still.A few things I am factoring in will be is he responsive to cutting the dose.If not why?If  he is interested in weaning  then that is a gesture to me of how much he does want off of this,and all drugs.He has told me he wants off all drugs.But actions most definatly speak louder than words.
I will say he has had little to no regard for his family or been able to look at it from our point of view untill he began methadone.He has told me since may times how sorry he is,for the pain he has caused us and himself.In that respect he is looking at it,in a whole new light.
I do want to research suboxone as well, and appreciate the info that you have sent.It is my understanding the place he is going to also has this.I will ask him tommorrow,why they choose the methadone over suboxone.My hope is my husband will get some answers from there staff.
Again thank you.

[94orchard]

I was a heroin addict for about 5 years.  From my experience Methadone was the BIGGEST mistake I have ever made.  In 3 years I paid the methadone clinic $12,000, most clinics do not accept insurance and is a cash only system.  Since his habit hasn't been that long you should look into Suboxone/Subutex.  I finally switched over from methadone to suboxone and it has saved not only my money but my life too.  Logon to suboxone.com and it will give you a listing of all the doctors in your area that are currently prescribing suboxone/subutex.  Believe me you and your son will be happy you did it.  When I was on methadone I was so screwed up, I was falling asleep at the wheel and in bed with cigarettes lit.  It was a nightmare.  Check it out and let us know how things are going.  My email is ***@**** if you need anymore info.  Email me anytime you feel the need too.  Good luck.  Kevin.

[green eyed lady]

I have never taken methodone so I'm sorry I can't give you any answers...but I am also a mom and I know how painful it is to see your child suffer.

You and your husband are wonderful parents who are doing everything humanly possible to help your son and I just want you to know that I feel your pain and I will pray for your family. God Bless you.

[wait2long]

he probably had a CHOICE, methadone or suboxone....i chose the same thing he did and was sorry in the end, although i have to credit methadone to a point as a start of getting clean, but for me it helped being on a low dose, get his dose down as soon as you can, regardlessof any other decision you make ...you cant start suboxone comfortably if on more than 20mgs daily, and even then must wait to be in mild to moderate withdrawals before you can take first of suboxone, its a very rough transition...i would definately tell him if he sincerely wants to be clean, he needs to start to taper dose now... but suboxone isnt the magic pill alot of people claim it is..its alot of hard work on his part, total commitment and very very slow paced...must also commit to therapy.....good luck and keep us posted

[beachtowel]

Welcome to the forum.....
I read your post and can only imagine what your family is going through trying to deal with the evil of addiction.....
Narconon was probably an experience for you my Mom went many times........
I was a guest speaker at Narconon recently I spoke for 30 minutes and took questions for 2 hours....

Many people speak of not having any money to help with addiction.....in many states Mental Health funds detox and inpatient drug rehab along with aftercare with drug counselors and therapists....
Yes mental health takes care of addicts as addiction is considered insane.......

Mom remember half of what he says is true the other half is the addict only concern with getting drugs.....your sons dose is very high but of course the addict wants it high....he falls asleep and scratches etc...because he has way to much dope in his blood stream........but an addict wants it that way.......

Mom let me ask you a question if you went to a business who only excepted cash would you question there credibility? Most Methadone clinics only except cash did you ever wonder why?

Get you son into a professional detox he will only be there for five days then straight into a inpatient drug rehab........I would recommend six months.........

drug addiction is both physical and psychological addiction you can take the drugs away but psychologically he will also need rehab.....
drug addiction changes the brain the way it thinks,,and emotionally........

Methadone is primarily used as a substitute drug the problem is they stay on it for years and what nobody talks about is Methadone is very addictive..........

Going to N/a

As far as using it to wean off Heroin I personally feel he is only taking advantage of you what he really wanted was the Methadone and he will say or do what he has to to get as much of it as he can.......

[beachtowel]

Going to N/A blasted on Methadone doesnt' help anyone in fact it may hurt people at the meeting trying very hard to stay clean.......

At the same time he might hear or see something that will help him.......

[FLaddict]

I agree with Beach.. Get him into a inpatient treatment center.. i was a young heroin addict myself.  I never would have gotten out of the addict mentality without a treatment center.. I had tried a hundred times. My story is similiar to your son's. I started snorting heroin at 15.. just here and there to try it.. Soon I was shooting it and withing my first treatment center by 17.. many came after.. Finally at 18 something clicked.. I wanted to not use drugs more than I wanted to get high... I went to my last treatment center.. they detoxed me with methodone in a 9 day period. I was coming off of about 13-15 bags a day of heroin a day. So short detox does work.. I think its the better way.. Detox under medical supervision. I never went back.. Its been almost 8 years. I have had my troubles with pain pills recently. But will never take that life back.. Treatment facilities allow the addict time to deal with the addiction and a real break from it..

[Sparkle Plenty]

Greetings dear lady,  I, too, am the mother of a recovering Methadone addict.  He is now about two months FREE of opiates.  We have been able to provide a safe, supportive environment for him which is not always the case with addicts.  Little by little he is being restored to good health.  This forum and the other one have been so helpful educating us about the pitfalls.  Your son will be dope sick for a very long time, there is no simple way back.  BUT IT CAN BE DONE!  My prayers are with your family,  Sparkle Plenty

[awakan]

I hope you are able to convince your son to cut down on his dose, he is way too high if he is nodding and scratchy and so on..If he is on 60 chances are he could get by just as well on 30-20 or even 10, and not be sick. especially since he has not been on for a long time,the "heroin" has probably left his body by now. It would be in his best interest to go down as much as possible before this stuff really gets a hook in him..I have been on this drug for heroin addiction, several times, and for pain control this last go round..Addicts usually tend to overplay whats going on with them. Maximize their usage when getting on, and , minimize the the affect of the dose they are on to get more. Usually in the first few days of treatment you need to go up on your dose, because it won't hold you , at first but after a few days even a week you can get down to a lower maintenance dose. Ask him to at least try going down on the dose and see, if you can get him into a funded program do it, if he resists remind him that he is willing to do what it takes. Staying on methadone maintenance would be a mistake he will probably come to regret someday when he decides he wants to be drug free...Good Luck to you and your family...a-wakan

[hellc@mst]

A therapeutic dose of mdone should not cause nodding,slurred speech or any high.All it should do is palliate withdrawals and cravings.A good doc would try a Peak and Trough test as well as a serum level to assess wether the dose is adequate.If hes on too much these tests will show it.
New school of thought says that an 80mg and higher mdone dose has a blocking effect on other opiates.This is not quite true.Its still possible to get high off heroin but u need to use so much that it becomes too costly.
J