Methadone for 15 years and Why a Clinic would leave it up to the Addict?

[angie]

I have someone very dear to me that has been on Methadone for 15 years to keep clean from heroin. My thoughts is that it just helped prolong her situation and helping her not reach a bottom. There are even some states that will give it to her free. Florida however does not give it free. It is pretty costly. Yes, I have read all about how it keeps them off the streets. They do not offer any real counseling or really try to help her get off this stuff. Why would a methadone clinic keep someone on the program for so long? I know several people within the program that has been on it for 10+ years. Why would a program leave it up to a drug addict to reduce their dose or get off the program? There was another question posted about Hepatitis C and the effects of Methadone. I would like to just say that the medication that could help the Hepatitis C is blocked due to the use of Methadone. Only quoting the Doctors. Yes, I probably sound Angry. 90% of the time I am not. I attend Alanon and with the help of a greater power than my self I keep the focus on me, Take it One day at a time, Letting go and Letting God.

Thank you for listening to my questions and my thoughts.

[tom to Dan]

I'm looking forwad to your response to this one. Hepatitis C? What's that all about?

[Yep]

People are trading one addiction for another. You CAN get high off of Methadone...if your tolerance has gone down. I find it funny that it's okay to pay through the nose financially and socialy speaking for methadone but other opiates are a no-no. Methadone IS BIG BUSINESS. It's a business unto itself. In the end, you are doing nothing but "maintaining" (i.e. "maintenance" MMT) an ongoing HABIT. Either you are a practicing addict or you are not. Being on methadone does NOT put you in the "non-practicing" bracket. You're still using. Period. You're never "over" addiction, but continuing to take a drug very similar to the one you were addicted to is a surefire way to relapse and/or stay in the "addicts" frame of mind. You're still going to the "clinic", still going to see a "doctor", still taking "pills." What's the difference? Yes it helps the "gutter junky" types as well as the "suit and tie junkys." But since most of us aren't on either end of that spectrum - i.e. we're NOT suicidal, we're not scoring off the street corner - we're "maintenance" prescription pill users, getting them from M.D.'s and clinics when we run out etc. Much like a Methadone patient...mmmmmmmmm. No difference really. You're still a SLAVE. You're not off drugs until you're OFF drugs. Period.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I agree pretty much with everything in your post about MMT.  I would like a little more education about MMT and Hep C.  I went through the combo treatment two years ago and the only stipualtion was that I refrain from all alcohol because it nullifies the effect of the Interferon and Ribivirin.  At that time I was prescibed Vicodin for pain but limited to 20 mg hydrocodone and 1300 mg Tylenol per day.  I thought that the opiods had little effect on the liver.  Thanks!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I agree as well. I was a hard core alcoholic and when I detoxed and after a year long battle, managed to quit the booze, I am now almost eight months sober with no desire for it but I am now addicted to Klonopin in its place.

Klonopin was initially for the withdrawal, then the seizures and combination of severe anxiety disorder. I was told the Klonopin i much safer than being on alcohol and even though it is an addiction, it is like other sick people who need drugs everyday to stay alive such as diabetics, heart patients and so on.

I had a mitral valve prolapse and bad arrythmia numerous pvc's per minute before the Klonopin and now it is miraculously cured as well. So the Klonopin has really done alot for me and I am not even tempted to drink at all, not even when I get really stressed or angry so the detox worked in that regard, but yes I am still addicted now to the Klonopin. I would hate to try an detox off of it. I hear it is much worse than alcohol withdrawal and I had hell with that.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Barbara,
Way to go on Sobriety! I wanted to ask you what is Klonopin?  Is it like Xanax? How did you become addicted?  Is it taken like Xanax?  I mean do you feel really relaxed.  If it has helped you like you have said why do you think that you are addicted?  I was just curious.  Again Great Job on your eight months sober that is so wonderful!
Sincerely,
Marcie.

[Mariah to Tom]

Hey!  That's funny you saying something about that...  I had already thought about naming him after you & his daddy of course.  And with your permission, I'm going to name him Ryan Thomas.  Even though I have never met you or have never seen your face, I know your heart & I would be more than pleased if my baby boy turns out just like you.  Thank you for everything, my friend.
Love You,
Mariah  :)

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

When are you due? We could have a CYBER BABY Shower for you!  You should register with Babys R Us or something like that! I think that is a great idea!  Just like me being a CYBER God Parent!  I am so glad you are doing so good! Pat the Baby Hello!

Sincerely,
Marcie.

[tom to Mariah]

I don't know what to say ... you humble me. love to you too, Mariah. God bless you and little Ryan Thomas.

[Gloria]

To Barbara
Congrats on eight months of sobriety. I would like to make some critical points about some of your claims and dispel whatever belief you have that you are "now addicted to Klonopin."  Current research regarding anxiety/panic disorders has revealed that there is almost 90% correlation between panic disorders and mitral valve prolapse.  Research has yet to define what triggers the panic component, but it is currently believed that the tachyarrhythmias (extremely fast heartbeats and irregular heartbeats) are the culprit.  Klonopin is the drug of choice to correct this illness, along with beta-blockers (Tenormin, Inderal).  So Barbara, your Klonopin is as important to your continued living as Insulin is to a diabetic.  Yes, Klonopin is a benzodiazepine and has the potential to be addictive.  In your case, I would venture a guess that your alcohol dependence was your attempt to self-medicate an underlying panic/anxiety disorder, which was triggered by a physiologic problem (Mitral Valve Prolapse).  Because of your past history, you are wise to be cautious about taking your medication only as prescribed, but I doubt that is an issue with you.  Keep up the good work and try to see your Klonopin as life-sustaining medication--not an addiction.  You do not need to "detox" from it, only take it as prescribed.  Best wishes for continued sobriety.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Gloria,
I just wanted to say that you gave a GREAT response to Barbara.  I know that she will appreciate that information.  That is all I wanted to say. Terrific Post.

Sincerely,
Marcie.

[Frankinscense]

More myths based on non scientific non facts. Methadone boosts the immune system. It does this stabalising an off balance immmune system that has been compromised by the abuse of short acting opiates. I have studied various research findings and never has anyone been so wrong than the above poster. Methadone/LAAM helps hep c or hiv/aids addicts recover or live better lives by keeping them off of short acting opiates. I too believe in many ways in twelve step recoveries. This method helps many recover who have addictions that are not complicated by years of abuse and many incarcerations. When a person is facing lives that are so unhealthy and out of order. Methadone/Laam help these people get their lives back together so they can find employment and become productive citizen.
                                                                
Methadone/LAAM has helped people from all walks of life. (doctors,lawyers,pharmacists,etc.) The press usually only print negative articles in regards to this treatment. It does not print all the success stories that have come about due to these therapies. I must point out that opiate agonist therapies are not for every opiate addict. It is for addicts that have relapsed continually despite various treatment and twelve step programs.
I am not trying to convince anyone to stop trying abstinence. These methods of treatment help many addicts keep this horrible disease in remission. But when these addicts after several attempts at abstinence contiually fail, methadone/LAAM offers another tool to help them stay away from short acting opiates. Short acting opiates if used continually over long periods of time will have negative effects to the immune system and all the neurohormones (endorphins,dopamine,serotonin,norepinephrine,etc.)
Methadone BLOCKS no medicine that helps HEP C patients that I am aware of. Methadone has absolutely no ill effects on vital organs throughout the body if taken at a proper dose. Methadone has been researched for 40-50 years and no research scientist can find anything negative about this drug in regards to the health of the  user. Methadone is a very safe drug with no toxic effects if used properly. It is a medicine with many similarities to other maintenace meds such as insulin and blood pressure medicines. If anyone cares to find holes in what I type.. Do some research and try to prove me wrong. I am a methadone patient and will stay on methadone until some other treatment comes along that is superior  to methadone.  I wish that i could  continue this discussion,but I have to take care of my responsibilities and go to work. My Peace I Give You, My Peace I Leave You,
Dan..
ps. I had no time to proof read this, so xcuse any errors! Dan

[tom to Dan]

thanks for the clarification. Knew you'd have the skinny.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Hi Marcie, thanks for the encouragement. The Klonopin is just like xanax only it is the main benzodiazapine used to control partial seizures. It is an anti-convulsant which the benzo group is and why they are used in alcohol withdrawal.

I have a partial seizure disorder and anxiety disorder so this medication has been a life saver for me at this time in my life. A lot of weird things have gone on this past year and I really need a calmer downer!

[Patrice]

Hi Dan

I have met some great people on here, like JB and a few others.  I am a member of NA, and as I have said before, I was clean for 12 years, and relapsed in 1996.  Ever since then, I have been on one substance or another.  I know that I need my antidepreesent to lead a normal life, and one sleeping pill for a chronic sleep disorder.  I have no problem with taking my doxepin and restoril as directed, and my support group knows this.  My problem is, I CANT get off of heroin!!!  I shot dope for many years, and started back up in August.  I tried the buperphine/nalxon treatment which made me too sick and I walked off.  I managed to take 2 vicodins a day to keep from getting sick, but 5 days later the withdrawls hit, and I started the dope again.  I have tried taking methadone pills (I bought them from someone) and I ODed on them.  I really need help here.  I am afraid to tell my hubby I am back on stuff, adn dont know wht to do!!  Is there a reason I cant tolerate methadone?  I need to add that I was also taking other drugs with it.  Do you think LAAM would or could work for me?  I need o quit for my own self esteem and recovery and am real scared right now.  Can you give me some advice?  Please E mail me privatly if you do answer.  I am tking 1/2 gram a day, and my arms ache from the dope.  I cant fix because I have no veins, so I am skin popping.  I am afraid to go cold turkey, because I am 46 years old, and I just cant do it anymore.  All of the people I know on methadone never quit drugs, is there hope for me?  I so want to be clean in recovery agian!!  I want to be able to love me again, and I am digging myself in more and more each day.  Can I really go on MM and stay clean after that one day at a time?  

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

PS my addy is ***@****

[Frankinscense]

Methadone and Laam do work if taken properly without using drugs in conbination. You have to get out and lose this lifestyle. You never will succed having these so called friends around. These people that continue to use ARE NOT your friends you have to relise this and work a NA program along with LAAM/methadone maintenance. Patrice make up you mind girl! Its your life at stake here> GET AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!! Make some new friends and attend NA meetings 2-3 times a day if necessary and get a sponser. That should be your only friend for a while. Make the commtment and STAY focused. Methadone or LAAM will work but you have to the things I said, they are essential to your recovery. Also use a clinic that provides good counseling.
You will not succeed if you continue this lifestyle you are living! Best to you! BE SPIRITUAL!
Danny..

[Patrice]

Hi dan

Thank you for your reply.  I do go to my NA meetings,in fact I went to my comitment meeting tonight.  I have a sponser, but havent been using her lately.  I really appreciate your kindness to me!!!  I know these people I hang out with are using, but I rationalize by saying I have known them since 1979.  I will go to a clinic tomorrow.  In fact my sponser works at the one I am thinking about going to, and I know I will need counseling too! I also have slinical depression.  Would I also have to quit taking my doxepan while I am on LAAM?  The last thing I need is to be depressed or I should say more depressed than I am now... I hate my diease and love it at the same time, because without it, I wouldnt have a program to work.  I bought my NA basic text, my how it works and why and my NA workbook.  I know I have to get to work, if I want to live!!!  I want so despertly to quit.  Like they say, there is nothing worse than a head full of NA and a body full of drugs.  I have tried going to NA 3-4 times a day, and I know it helps, but I have to listen to the message.  In fact when I relapsed I was going morning noon and night!!!  Right now I am attending at least 6 meetings a week. (I take Fridays off)  I know what I have to do to be in recovery, its just like I have to be wiling.  I know what to do, I just dont do it.  And also I learned I cant save my friends, I can only save mysellf. Again Dan, thank you for being so kind!!!   I need to ask, but dont answerr if you dont want to.  Are you a counseler?

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

[Frankinscense]

You can take antidepressants while on LAAM. You must commit yourself to your recovery! Stop rationalising! patrice,you must do what is necesary to accomplish your goals. Be strong. You can do it!
Dan

[Patrice]

Thanks for letting me know that I can take my doxipan on LAAM.  Can I also take my restoril 30mg that is prescribed by my doctor? I am terrified of not slepping.  I know I am a good rationalizer, you picked up on it QUICK!  I have made the decision to go on LAAM or just the regular methadone, I have o talk to a counselor therre first.  Thanks for yourr relpy, you are the greatest!!

Take care

Patrice

[Frankinscense]

Most prescription drugs can be taken while on methadone or LAAM. With the exception of short acting opiates.(vicodin,lortab,oxycodone etc.) Taking these drugs while on methadone will only compromise your recovery.
                                                                  Restoril also, with the permission of your counselor be taken.Patrice,When are you going to start your treatment? Why are you waiting? Good Luck! Be Spiritual!       Dan..

[tom to Patrice]

while you're reading all the na pubs, don't forget to take a look at the big book of AA, the one that represents the beginning of the movement. Even though it's the stories of "a bunch of drunks" there's something special and very spiritual about the original, especially the Bill W and Dr Bob stuff. Good reading.

[Patrice]

Hi Dan

I am going on Monday to give a urine test and then start, I was procratsinating saying I will go when I dope runs out, but now I know the dope will never run out, and if I want to live, I must do it now!!!  Thank you for pulling my covers, Dan, I would never do it without people like you pushing me.  I will let you know what happens.  You said with my counselers permission I can take my restoril, will I also be able to take my antidepressant, it doxipen  75mg, one pill a day.  Thanks again Dan, and have a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care

Patrice

[Patrice]

I wa just reading back, and noticed that you have alreaddy answered all of the questions I had before.  I am an addict that just sees what she wants to see, I read were I said I was going to the clinic, before, but this time, it IS gonna happen!!!  My husband is going to make sure of it, so even if I go kicking and screming all of the way, I am going!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks again for pulling my covers and caring about me as on addict to another.  You are the greatest!!!!!  And agin, I will keep you up on my progress

Take Care

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi Tom

Believe me, I know without AA there would be no NA today, I have read the Big Book and know it is a wonderful book, very spirtual, my only problem with it, is it need to (IMHO) to be updated.  It is a little too relious for me, and thats just for me, not anyone else.  And there are stories in there about addicts hence "Belle of the ball" and "Doctor alcoholic addict" Thank you for reminding me, I will take it out and read it tonight.  Have a great weekend!!!

Take Care

Patrice

[Kristina To Patrice]

I have made a list of medication that I know Patrice is currently
taking or abusing
Herion   , hydrocodone ,xanax ,restoril  ,  doxipan soma  .
I'm  sure there is more  but this just the  short list. Patrice?  Why  do you bother coming to these boards at all?
You  spend alot of time  lying about all the **** you take.
Now I read tonight you want methodone. Your right,  you'll be dead soon,  for sure... she doesn't want help people  she wants permission to use these drugs . I'm  sick  of it personally.Sick and tired of all your pathedic attempts to get our sympathy.
If anyone here give Patrice advice... then tell her to stop lying to you  first,  then maybe real help will follow.  I know addicts lie about everything, and I  sound like I'm attacking
Patrice, fact is  she is a child in a 46 yr old  body. A  child that would not know the truth if it slammed her in the face with a hammer.All of you  do yourself a favor  and ignore this unstable woman. signed .. Angel of message  boards

[Patrice]

Angel

Why must you flame me!!!  I kniw I am an addict, and I know that an addict kies, I lie a lot.  This is one thing that is not a lie.  The ONLY drugs that I abuse is opiates!!!!  I do take 1 capsule of restoril 30mg at night for sleep.  I take doxipen 75mg once a day for clinical depression, I take xanax for very occasional panic attacks. I got a prescription of 30 and I have 27 left, that was a while back.  I have taken soma only if my back is in severe pain, who the hell do you think you are *******?  I am not trying to make anyone feel sorry for me, I am only asking Dan for advice, and I intend to take his advice!  If you are a recovering drug addict, I feel sorry for you being jugdmental to me, we in NA are taught to be kind, understanding and non-jugdmental.  I think you are the person who followed me from the vicodin board, and even posted one of my post from here to there.  You are a sick pathetic human being, and leave me the f%%k alone.  If you dont like what I have to say dont read it!!!   I will not listen to your ravings again.  You can eat your words when I get my life back togrther.  And most of all, I thought this was a forum where flaming is not allowed.  You broke the rules by doing so to me, Angel, or whatever your name is today

Patrice

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Wow!  Now I see what you were talking about in some of your last posts.  It sounds like this Angel has issues more serious to deal with than addiction! Just stick to your guns, hon, and things will get better for you.  I know that you are serious about recovery.  Remember that you already have had 12 years of recovery and that will be your greatest asset in dealing with all that is going on in your head.  Take all those hateful comments with a "grain of salt".  Keep your chin up!

[Kristina To Patrice]

Patrice,
Why  don't  you really read the post, you react to my post in such an angry way. You know  why? The truth hurts you so much, you become hostle. You say  you  lie huh? But you're not lying
about this.Hmmmm   funny, if you lie so much  why would  you
expect anyone to take you seriously? Patrice , yes you are an addict , that much we know. The problem really here is  you're  so full of **** about  what you take, and how much, and ultimately  you want people to tell you it's okay to abuse these drugs.I'm  so sick of you  and you're stupid stories about  getting clean  , just  shut  up already  and do it. You are all over evey message board concerning online pharmacies.You post
to people on how  to lie about consults and telling docs what they want to hear  so you can get your drugs.  It's time for you to move on Patrice and get on with getting  sober  and stop your bullshit stories.  The  poor people on this addiction board have been conned by you already. If people think I have bigger "issues" it's because I do.  My issue here is liars.
I have a big problem with liars.Thats all , nothing more nothing less.  Angel

[Patrice]

Hi JB

Thanks for the post in defence to me.  I do not intend to let people who are like this Angel let me down.  I have read some of her posts and know whats up with her.  One think I do have to say in defence of myself is that I never had or never will go on a board and tell people to lie about getting drugs, in fact people have written me and asked me questions about how to obtain drugs, and I will not answer them!!  Not because I am some goody two shoes, but because I dont want someone to land up like me.  I promise I wont let her get to me, and yes I am going to get back on track!!!  I know NA has saved my life over and over, and II know I can do it again,I will get my recovery back, one day at a time, I did think that flaming was not allowed here, but I can deal with it.  I have delt with much more BS in my life, than one little girl trying to f^&k with me.  To Angel, hon, get the help you need to get better, we all know that in ANY 12 step program we dont judge otherpeople so get working on your steps before you ruin your life.  Remember we are all addicts and we can fall.  I have seen people with far more time than I fall, but we pick up and dust ourselves off, and start over again.  We never lose what we have learned we only lose the time we have, and we can get it back.  I am a firm believer that as long as we have a breath left in our bodies, we have hope to get into recovery once again.

Take care and God bless!!

Patrice

[Kristina To Patrice]

Patrice? Why is my questions to you "flaming"? I'm simply asking you to stop your lies. I don't think that is inflammatory at all.
Am I insulting you? If I am then I guess I'm a rude  person. Let me ask you this. Don't you think it's insulting to people when you lie constantly about yourself? Don't you think that is  disrespectful? I do.See   you can't logically answer these questions because you know  full of **** you are.Maybe you just can't remember half the  **** you say.I  don't know .
I know  one thing is for sure. With all the  medication you take, and shooting up herion, you will be dead soon.
I only wish you would realize bullshitting and sob stories  will not help you.Put away your computer, and check yourself into a detox or a mental hospital for about a year.Good luck! Angel

[Patrice]

I said I wasnt going to ;isten to your **** anymore, but I still have that question and it is show me where you think I have told people to lie to get drugs, in fact read my post from Friday on the vicodin board, warning people NOT to lie.  I want you to quit this BS Anger, I have read your stories, cocaine addict,are you clean?  If you are truely in recovery, you would stop this now.  And my dear I think you are the ne to get rid of your computer and have yourself checked into a nut house, because you have some problems that warrent outside help.  Also, show me the lies I have posted, if you are talking about me procrastinating to go to the MMT, then that is pathetic of you!!!  Sure I procrastinate!!!I AM AN ADDICT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  And please stop the cyberstalking, if you are in a 12 step program, you wouldnt be on the boards you are speaking of.  Now leave me alone and get your own life hon

Patrice

[Patrice]

Look lady, you can rant and rave all you want, but you leave my wife alone!  You are the sick one and after reading some of your posts on cocaine and such, you have no room to make jugdments.  Dont even say you are in "sobriety" because were we come from no person in NA or AA would talk to another addict in this fashion.  You are truely sick Angel, and you need to stop this now.  For one thing I know for a fact, my wife has never told people to lie in order to get medication.  Like she asked before show us the proof.  Also, show me and everyone else where she has lied about anything on this board.  She is here for support only, adn I want to thank Dan, Tom and JB for taking care of her.  The only thing Patrice has done is procrastinate on the time frame she will be going into MMT.  Dont worry Dan, I WILL get her ther this week.  She is the love of my life, and I will do anything to help her.  And Angel, get a life and stop stalking my wife, she has done nothing to you.  Again, I want to that all three of you guys for helping Patrice find her way back into recovery.  I will be behind her 100% I have chosen another route of detox for myself, but thats my program, not hers.

Again thanks guys

Mike

[Kristina To Patrice]

I'm not that Angel, who posts about cocaine.I don't use drugs.
Especially cocaine. I'm a person ,who has seen Patrice on several
message boards.After reading all her silly stories over the past couple of months, I decided to ask her to stop her bullshit stories. If Mike is her only support system, no wonder why she's so  screwed up. As her husband I would think you would want her to get  better,clearly it's the blind leading the blind with you two.Just to clear this up I'm not an cocaine user,unlike Patrice, I don't lie about my self and have no reason to.Actually, my real name is Marybeth, so if in the future I will post under my real name. I use the name angel because it's my e-mail address .When Patrice  decides to stop posting lies  I will stop posting to her.I'll say this  again,
stop all your  bullshit stories to these people on these boards and put your computer away and check yourself in a detox, or a mental hospital.Searching for emty solutions over the internet is not going to get you anywhere. Marybeth

[Dee]

Patrice, try to stay positive, of course you procrastinate, we all do before we get up enough courage to go for it,I would be very surprised to meet a true addict who didn't...I have been procrastinating for so long myself..it's a very scary feeling when you do finally decide, because deep down you know once you start there's no turning back..try not to let Angel get to you,
Dan,Jb,tom and the rest will stand behind you and try to help you through...they are the best! everyone is! I want to ask you, I know that I asked before, but I didn't get an answer, where is the vicodan board?? I would like to go to any many forums as I can and read other peoples experiences...every little bit that I read helps me...so again I say stay strong and don't let anyone or anything get you down...also to your husband Mike, it's great that you standing up for your wife, having a partner you can count on is one of the best things in life we can have..take care
Dee
PS
I noticed that you have left your aol screen name in a few posts
I have aol, would it be ok to drop you an im and say hi, that goes for anyone else who has aol, my screen name is Honeyb475
anyone who want's to talk through im's feel free to send me a messege!

[Dee]

I probable shouldn't even go here, but, maybe you could explain to me what it is that you have read from Patrice....I haven't read anything except on this board about how she is a heroin addict..maybe you know much more than the rest of us do...I know that these forums should not be used for petty stuff like this,
but to be honest, I'm quite curious, I certainly do not want to be the cause of any more trouble,but maybe you will pacify me and tell me more about what you have read on here and other boards..and also I would like to think that most of us here are sincere...thanks Marybeth if you decide to tell me...have a great night!
Dee

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

"Angel" is so full of RAGE.  Who is she.  Does she think that it is her job to police all of the addict boards and let us know what she comes up with?  How sad.  Those of us who have been on the board so long havent seen anything like this in a while.  I mean "Angel" is this some kind of sick internet intervention? Why would you be so cruel to someone like Patrice.  No matter what she says or does she is still human.  She does not deserve to be disrespected by you an internet STALKER.  What makes you so bitter?  Why is Patrice your target?  Why does she upset you so? No matter what her story is she is an addict looking for help.  You say that you are on all the sites like Patrice.  What are you doing there? or even here?  It sounds like you have all the answers and dont need the guidance. What can be hurting you so bad inside to persue another human being like that.  As if life is not hard enough for the sober ones why would you do the things you are doing?  I have had misunderstandings on this board but I still respect the people even though we dont see eye to eye.  You, however, are going after Patrice like a Tiger (NOT AN ANGEL) going out for "the kill".  Are you so comforted knowing that you are truly hurting someone who wishes for nothing better than to get well.  "Angel", have you found some BREAKTHROUGH way to no longer be an addict?  The way you distribute advice you must know something we dont know.  I mean you try to appear you do.  Have you read your postings? In your opinion do you think they appear "STABLE"?  The only unstable woman that needs to be ignored on this website is YOU.

[Kristina To Patrice]

You're  right  I'm an awful  and unstable  woman. Okay  you  got me. I see Patrice on Chronic pain web sites . I have a spinal
cord injury. That's why I'm on those  sites. I  found this  site for neuro -surgeons. I came across this board and fell over when I saw Patrice here too. Well enough is enough I guess. I'm deemed a horrible person . good  luck to you and I'm sorry if I came off as a total jerk. Time will tell. Just wait until you say something Patrice  can handle. She'll show  how  wonderful she really is.  Lets see how  quickly anyone  comes to her defence  when she flips out on someone hear. Good Luck

[Patrice]

This is a board for recovering alocolics and addicts, or people who are seeking recovery, Please dont ruin this board with your nonsense dear.  All 12 step people stick together and we are a tight and loyal group here.  Unless you are seeking recovery Ange, why are you here?  Everyone on this board knows how addict and or aloholics are, we procrastinate, rationalize, we have resentments and are trying to get better and lose these defects of charector(sp)  so hon, you are out of your leauge (sp) here.  We all know wht we do, and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to make us turn on each other.  BTW, why did it throw you over to see me here?  Evidently you go to the same palces I go, so why does it bother you so much to see me here.  NA is my home, has been for 16 years.  I may not have my recovery now, but I started my journey on November 2, 1984.  So angel this is my home.  If you have no drug or and alcohol problems, why are you even wasting your time on this site?  Just leave me alone. I have never done anything to you, I am here to get advice and to pick up spirtualality (sp)  dont ruin this board for the recovering people here.  It is not worth it.  If you have a beef with me, take it to my addy, and dont bother the other people here.  Take my advice and have a good night

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi all!!!!

I went to the methadone clinic today and gave my urine test, finally I did it!!!!!  Tomorrow I have an appointment to get examened by the doctor, and if everything works out, I will start my new life tomorrow!!!!!  I am soooooooooo happy!!!!  I want to thank the great people on here for showing me I have hope, and now I can go back to my program with my head held up high once again!!!!!  Tommorrow is the first day of the rest of my life.  Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you all posted everynight on here to let you know how I am doing.

Love to you all

Patrice

Dan, a special thanks to you for making me make up my hardheaded and stubern (sp) mind!!

[Frankinscense]

Congrats to you both. My advice>> Work your program like your lives are at stake here! Best Wishes! "doc Dan"...

[Patrice]

Hi all

I writting you all, as I promised. I started with my methadone program this morning.  Started at 10:am.  They put me on 30mg today,and will increase me to 40mg tomorrow.  My doctor there also told me, I can stay on a dose comfortable to me after I get through the detox, to help with my CP.  I explained to him that drugs such as vicodin are my triggers for heroin.  He was a very nice man.  And Dan you are right, he said my medication I am taking for sleep and the doxipen are fine, as long as I have a prescription (which I do).  Now I have to get back to my program to get back the wonderful life that I had before this all happened, I am so greatful to all of you for seeing me through this!!!!!  I can now get back to my NA meetings without feeling guilty and dishonest.  I am happy today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love you all and God Bless

PS  will write tomorrow

[Gina]

I am so glad that you have decided to go this route. I was a 40 pill a day user.Anything from lortabs to darvocets to percocets. I have been through 2 outpatient detoxs/therapy in the past 2 years. For the eight months I didn't use, it was a relief not to be chasing those pills. I didn't have to worry about getting the scripts, counting pills and trying to figure out how to make them last (which they never did) and hiding them in all my secret spots so my husband wouldn't find them. I still felt like there was something missing and the pills would always call me back with their empty promises. I started MMT about three weeks ago and feel great. They started me out at 20mgs and increased by 5mgs daily until I was comfortable at 60mgs. It costs $70 a week since insurance doesn't cover. I must attend 1 inhouse meeting weekly and have a 1 on 1 with my counselor every 2 weeks. He is a great guy who has "been there" and understands. During the week I must attend at least 2 AA or NA meetings. I drive an hour each way every morning but it has been worth it so far. I was told that when you reach your blocking dose this  means you do not crave or obsess about the drugs. I was also told that if you take any pills you will not feel the effects. Is this true, Dan? They do test your urine at random. I want to get to the point where I can have "take homes". That won't be for at least 3 months. You must have three clean urines. This is the FIRST TIME I haven't craved or obsessed about my pills ever. I wish you luck, Patrice. Like Dan said, we have to work on this like our lives are at stake. Stay Strong!!!!!!!

[Patrice]

Hi girl,
I am happy me both made the decision to go on methadone.  I dont know if you have ever been on MMT, but it does save a lot of lives.  I still feel a little ukkie, since this is only my 2nd day.  I am at 40mg, and I feel comfortable there over the weekend, I will ask them to keep me on this dose.  I have to be very careful with methadone, I have had very bad reactions to it in the past.  But I think that was due to me taking all sorts of other shiat with it.  Gina, Please dont take any pills, no matter how much you want to!!!  What I am talking about is opiates.  You would have to take a lot to feel the, and then what?  You have defeted the purpose and catch 2 habits.  I was trueful with my doctor and told him that I take 1 sleeping pill a night, my doxipan for depression and xanax for occasional panic attacks.  He told me it was fine, as long as I have proff they are from my doctor, (which I do)  They will work with you, if you are honest with them.  And yes after 90days they will give you take-home (if you give clean tests).  They also will let you go to another clinic if you need to go out of town.  I am glad you are going to 12 step metings!!!!!  I go only to NA because where I live, addicts are not welcome in AA.  Gina, since we are going through the same thing, I would really like to talk to you via E mail.  My addy is ***@****.  If you would like to talk, please just write me.  I live in Fresno, California.  Where do you live?  You have a great weekend, and I hope to talk to you real soon

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

[Gina]

I would love to talk with you via e-mail. This is the first time I am trying the MMT. I have been very honest with my counselor. The first few days while I was on 20mgs until I hit 30mgs I had to take a few of my lortab to stop the withdrawl I was feeling at night time. My husband gave me two so my legs would stop from constant moving. I usually take 4 or 5 at one time but the idea was to stop the shaking not to get high. My husband are as straight as they come and he is having a hard time understanding all of this. I told my counselor about this and he said that he doesn't do a urine screen for the first 4 weeks since he knows people will be taking other stuff to be comfortable in the begining. After that no excuse! I haven't taken anything in weeks. What happens if you do? Do you not feel it because of the methadone blocking it out? See, this would be good news because then I would think what's the sense? Having a dirty urine and getting in trouble for nothing. I am on 60mgs and this is where I will stay. How about you? Write back soon!

[Patrice]

Hi Gina

E mail me, and I will give you detailed experience of my first few days.  I dont want to talk about it on an open forum.  Heres my addy again    ***@****

Hope to talk to you soon

Take care

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi everyone

I have been on methadone since Thursday, and I feel great!!!  I do not crave heroin, and I am seing the doctor on Friday to get on maintenance instead of detox.  I would like to stay at my currant level 40mg.  I will see what he says.  When I was on the bup treatment, all I could think about was heroin, but, now I know, Dan is right!!!  I am not loaded, I just am starting to feel like the old me again!!  Thank you to everyone here, and write me back.  I am hungry for recovery and know I can make it this time!!!!!!  I gotta get back with my sponser and start working the steps again, I did go to a meeting Saturday night, but didnt get to share, because it was a tag meeting.  It was still great being there.  I plan on getting back to my 6 meetings a week, (you know the excuses)  last nite was Superbowl and I had people from NA at my house.  And this is the truth-no lie  I went tonight and the electricity was gone.  So I start tomorrow.

Love to all

Patrice
***@****

[Gina]

I must say " Congratulations" if you feel comfortable at 45mgs. Everybodys tolerance is different and although I never took heroin, I was taking 40 pills a day if I had them. Sometimes 30 if I needed to spread them out. Yet, when I started the MMT I stopped at 50mgs, then felt like I needed an increase a few more times over the next 9 days and now I am up to 65mgs which seems to be working. I just wanted it to be less, but was told not to get to "into" the numbers. I wish you luck at this dose since it's less time tapering down. Let me know how you are making out.

[[e-mail]]

I have been on methadone for over a year but have to drive 3 hours a day to get dosed. can I get it online??

[Sparkle Plenty]

  Getting back to your initial question...though the 01 date confuses me....Why would a methadone clinic keep someone on the program for so long?  

Methadone clinics are profit making businesses.  Therefore, why wouldn't they want to keep a client using?  Sparkle

[lovemyson]

my son is addicted to oxy and is currently in a detox treatment of 60 mg of methadone a day. He has gone 5 days and is already trying to make excuses to not go tomorrow. I work 2 jobs and have limited time to take him. I will not give him money for gas as I fear he will use it on drugs(he has in the past) I saw a sore on his arm and suspect he may be shooting up,I am not sure as I have no experience with drugs. he has a boil like bump on his upper arn and a bruise above that. It really isnt by a vein it is under the sleeve of his shirt. Is it possible to shoot up with out a vein?? Please if anyone can help it would be appreciated. He is living out of his car with his girlfriend and making really bad choices. I love him,however I am not sure how to help him. I am paying for his methadone only a few days at a time so he has to be accountable and check in with me every couple of days.

[dessss]

You really should take this post and make a topic and post it alone so somebody can answer your questions.

[gristle]

Dear Lovemyson
Yes, it sounds like he's shooting up.  You can shoot up under the skin ('skin-popping'), into smaller veins or into arteries (painful, but will get you through the night) and usually these spots damage the skin and veins and result in puss-filled, abcesses similar to what you described that will often resolve by themselves but if you see red stripes running from that point and/or the skin is hot and painful to the touch, it is infected and will need medical attention quickly.  
If your son is ready to quit and wants to stay w/ his girlfriend she must quit too.
I strongly advise against giving them cash at all.  I would pay the methadone clinic directly.  if they need food, go shopping with them and make sure they don't buy things they can exchange for cash later. If you have lots of money, go far away with them to a beuatiful countryside where they know no one and have no access to drugs.  If you take them in (and I'd really suggest an inpatient program instead) then you must lay down ground rules:
- Lock up books, dvds, cds, electronics, prescriptions and anything else they might sell.
- They must be honest, even if what they say will hurt you.
- They must stay sober and submit to random drug-testing.  this can be faked of course, but it will help if you stay in the bathroom with them.
- Don't let them out of the house unaccompanied.
- Remove their phone and don't allow visitors.
- Rent them movies, bring them books, cigarettes, ice cream, lots of water, microwaveable meals, etc.
- Give them daily massages, as many as possible.  If the pain is unbearable consider minimal amounts of methadone or bezodiazepems (valuim, klonopin), pot, or liquor.  The pain they are experiencing is phenomenal and anything to quell this agony temproarily should be accepted provided that it;s simply a short-term solution and not a fix.
- Help them discover ways of naturally producing these good feelings.  Encourage sex.  Also, when they feel up to it, exercise of any kind; take walks to the park, go to concerts they'd like with them, build snowmen, swim, horseback ride, birdwatch, paint, read, play guitar, watch movies, etc.  Ask them to teach you about their interests and hobbies and try to engage them in this way.  If they love animals, take them to the zoo, help them assist injured wildlife through your local wildlife rehab program/wildlife fish and game dept..  If they like music, listen to it with them, then buy them a new album by someone similar ask the record store clerk or his friends  Try to bring your son back in to the community and make him feel valuable.  Do the same for his girl who will feel even more alienated.  Make them feel like they're in training - like Rocky.  If they can't improve themselves physically, then they should work on mental workouts.
- Consult an herbalist or a whole foods store clerk, or online to find herbs and vitamins that wil speed up withdrawal and hinder their agonizing symptoms.
- Take them to a hot spa or natural hot spring if at all possible.  The back pain is awful - this will help.
- Do not loose your temper or patience with them - they will be very moody.  Deal with it and don't take it personally.
- Without being pushy and after they're through the worst part of it, ask them where they'd like to be in five years.  Help them get applications, books, registration forms, etc to get to where they want to go.
- Help them feel like part of the family.   Talk with them and be open-minded.  Really listen to them.  There's usually a reason why they can't handle life without anaesthetzing themselves.  Figure out why this is and address it - even if it means you must make some changes too.  It's a scary process, but drug addiction is symptomatic of a cultural problem - soemthing wrong with their environment and something must change.
est of luck.  If I can help, please write again and I'll send contact info.
Heather I.