Aa
My husband is killing himself
My husband has been addicted to snorting pain pills for years. He's been in rehab for about 2 years, but that was no good because he got addicted to methadone on top of the pain pills. He stopped gonig to rehab in Feb. of 2007 because in was costing 70$ a week for methadone that was not helping him. I'm at the end of my rope with this situation. He's distroying our family as well as our marriage. I've been married to him for 8 years in Feb. but it's not looking like we are going to make it to our 9th annv. I've done EVERYTHING I know to help him, but nothing has worked. If someone out there has/is gonig through this PLEASE give me some advise. I can't deal with this any longer and I don't want my kids to lose their dad. But I've had enough.
I wouldnt of called myself an addict, but I would sometimes take ten pills a day for a couple days out of the month. I never really had withdrawl symptons or anything. Being a mother, student, and a waitress, I found it very hard to find energy. I used pain killers to get the energy I needed. Definitely could of used other methods. I do like the energy and happy feel they give me. I do take them in moderation and have never stole or doctor shopped. Not saying any of this doesnt mean I could eventually develop a habit. But I do know my ex had a pill problem for years He finally quit and we started dating again. Well when I didnt feel we were working out, and we broke up he started using them again. So he went a whole year sober just to abuse again!! Very powerful addiction!! Still wondering why I havent felt addicted at all, but I dont think I wanna find out!!
Very nice post Sir! I'm going to print it out and let my wife read it.... I'm doing subutex for months now and it has kept me from relapsing.... dunno if I would recommend it for someone doing 10 pills or less.
I don't know your whole situation but if he was a vicodin addict and got put on methadone in "Rehab" (not rehab if it involves methadone) then you've both had a terrible crime committed against you, regardless of his addiction.
Do try to understand he's facing an addiction to one of the WORST drugs ever created. The percentage rate for people getting off it is very low because the withdrawals last for weeks, up to a year (just physical we're talking about here).
So be aware it's not a situation he can just walk away from. Getting off methadone is similar to suffering from cancer or a traumatic accident, and having to do months, years of physical and emotional therapy to get better.
He can get the information here he needs to fight his way free of the physical part of the addiction...you BOTH can.
And you're both welcome to look for support on the emotional/mental side here, as well.
Do try to understand he's facing an addiction to one of the WORST drugs ever created. The percentage rate for people getting off it is very low because the withdrawals last for weeks, up to a year (just physical we're talking about here).
So be aware it's not a situation he can just walk away from. Getting off methadone is similar to suffering from cancer or a traumatic accident, and having to do months, years of physical and emotional therapy to get better.
He can get the information here he needs to fight his way free of the physical part of the addiction...you BOTH can.
And you're both welcome to look for support on the emotional/mental side here, as well.
Oh my i was in your shoes 5 years ago. my wife now my ex was a major league opiate player. doctor shopping,off the street,credit card fraud you name it. i forced her into rehab thru her job. DOINK!.that didnt work. i left and we divorced. a year later she came to me for help,went to rehab got on suboxone and has been on it 4 years. she is a total nut case now,no memory,hassles me etc.BTW, she met a man,left last jan,married in july and hassles me to no end. just today i got a letter from my lawyer thru hers that i should have no contact with her by phone. why?.geez im dating a lady,and a week ago she sent me 2 furious e-mails about her.....NOW LISTEN.........this is not your fault. there is diddly you can do about it. what you can do is go to narcanon meetings,release yourself from it. do you love him or the man he was BEFORE the opiates. this is his call not yours. i wish you all the luck,but take it from me my wifes addiction hurt me MORE than it did her. be tuff,dont accept it,be there for him but make strong boundaries..........you are looking at years of issues,YEARS, the other addicts on here won't like me saying that, but they will tell you.THE DRUGS COME FIRST,HIM SECOND,YOU AND THE KIDS...............doesnt even bother him the least.........also he will or is a POLISHED LIAR, so go from there..best of luck. feel free to e-mail me ok im pheggie101@ the one with the y .com Jim
[From Monday 9/24/07]
I don't buy in to the notion that rehab works only if you want it. More importantly, the statistics on treatment centers don't support it. There is a much higher direct correlation between a) time-in-treatment and success than between b) desire to quit outcome of rehab is much. Studies show that 4 months provides the max benefit. Some do fine with less, some require more.
As I was being dropped off at the rehap where I spent the next 122 days, the family member driving me said "Well, I hope you really want it this time." I quickly, and honestly replied, "you just don't get it do you? I don't want it AT ALL! I wish I had some more RIGHT NOW!!!"
On that day, and for a long time prior, I was in no condition to know what I wanted. If I had come home after 30 days I am certain I would have quickly relapsed. I'm almost as sure I would have relapsed after 60 days. I was almost ready to make it and 90 days, but it could have gone either way. Going home after 122 days was no picnic, there were some rough days, but I've never come close to relapsing.
Time magazine recently did an article on addiction (see http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html). One significant point in the article is how the brain apparently re-sets after about 90 days clean: "It turns out that this is just about how long it takes for the brain to reset itself and shake off the immediate influence of a drug. Researchers at Yale University have documented what they call the sleeper effect--a gradual re-engaging of proper decision making and analytical functions in the brain's prefrontal cortex--after an addict has abstained for at least 90 days."
I found this to be VERY true in my Recovery.
In my opinion addicts need to be kept in a safe place long enough for them to return to sanity. Only then are they in any kind of shape to decide what they want.
I will always be grateful that my wife refused to listen to those who said "it won't work if he doesn't want it." Somehow she knew that I was in no shape to decide anything and that if she waited for me "to want it," I'd just be dead first.
============================
[Back to today, Friday]
My prayers are with you and your family,
CATUF
DAY-843
I don't buy in to the notion that rehab works only if you want it. More importantly, the statistics on treatment centers don't support it. There is a much higher direct correlation between a) time-in-treatment and success than between b) desire to quit outcome of rehab is much. Studies show that 4 months provides the max benefit. Some do fine with less, some require more.
As I was being dropped off at the rehap where I spent the next 122 days, the family member driving me said "Well, I hope you really want it this time." I quickly, and honestly replied, "you just don't get it do you? I don't want it AT ALL! I wish I had some more RIGHT NOW!!!"
On that day, and for a long time prior, I was in no condition to know what I wanted. If I had come home after 30 days I am certain I would have quickly relapsed. I'm almost as sure I would have relapsed after 60 days. I was almost ready to make it and 90 days, but it could have gone either way. Going home after 122 days was no picnic, there were some rough days, but I've never come close to relapsing.
Time magazine recently did an article on addiction (see http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html). One significant point in the article is how the brain apparently re-sets after about 90 days clean: "It turns out that this is just about how long it takes for the brain to reset itself and shake off the immediate influence of a drug. Researchers at Yale University have documented what they call the sleeper effect--a gradual re-engaging of proper decision making and analytical functions in the brain's prefrontal cortex--after an addict has abstained for at least 90 days."
I found this to be VERY true in my Recovery.
In my opinion addicts need to be kept in a safe place long enough for them to return to sanity. Only then are they in any kind of shape to decide what they want.
I will always be grateful that my wife refused to listen to those who said "it won't work if he doesn't want it." Somehow she knew that I was in no shape to decide anything and that if she waited for me "to want it," I'd just be dead first.
============================
[Back to today, Friday]
My prayers are with you and your family,
CATUF
DAY-843
From Saturday, 9/22/07
LONG TERM REHAB WORKS.
An essential part of getting into sustained Recovery is simply getting off the drugs long enough for the brain to re-set, which seems to happen after about 90 days. Getting to that 90 days can be VERY tough to do unless you're in a very safe environment.
During and following active addiction, the brain chemistry is AFU. Many, perhaps most, addicts need significant treatment geared directly at the brain chemistry or it will never get back to normal. Take a look at the books: END YOUR ADDICTION NOW, by Charles Gant; THE MOOD CURE, by Julia Ross; and/or SEVEN WEEKS TO SOBRIETY, by Joan Larsen. The books can guide an addict, or someone who loves an addict, as to exactly what is needed to address the brain chemistry issues. Generally, we're talking about rebuilding neurotransmitters via amino acid supplements. I was initially inclined to view that as a bunch of health-nut mumbo jumbo. I was wrong. I think it's really critical.
A big stumbling block that is presented to many addicts attempting to change is Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome ("PAWS"). Acute withdrawal is the standard "dope-sick" business where we feel like we have the mother of all flu's x 10, and basically feel like we're going to die for a week or so, followed by a few more weeks of ZERO ENERGY. It intuitively seems like once you get past that you should be in the clear. Not so.
PAWS tends to hit the first time around 25-30 days, and then it keeps returning in cycles with a gradually decreasing frequency. A good piece on PAWS can be found at http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm That is from a book called STAYING SOBER, by Gorski & Miller. Another good book is STAYING CLEAN AND SOBER, by Miller & Miller.
One thing that was a huge help in keeping me clean during my first few months home from rehab was random drug screens. My wife found reasonably priced 4 or 5-panel urine screens on-line - we buy from http://www.medicaldisposablespr.com/drug_test_card.htm
I was screened ALOT during the first few months. Always at random and always close enough in time to the last test to pick up any use. The rule was (and is) if my wife says "pee in a cup," I say "thank you." Now I'm not tested very frequently, but I can be without warning and the next screen might be (and has been) the next morning.
The beauty of the drug screens is that they forced me to view ANY decision to use as what it in fact it really was - a decision to throw my life in the toilet. When I relapsed in the past, I never made the decision to return to my former levels or frequency of use. It was always going to be "just a little" and "just this once" or "only now and then." I never wanted to return to the living-death of active addiction, but I just need SOMETHING to get me past whatever rough spot I perceived at that moment. From a distance, and with an unimpaired mind, it might be easy for anyone and everyone to see that it the addict picks up again (at all) that he's soon going to be right back where he was. But it honestly does not feel like that's the truth (or even a possibility) when you're the one who feels like he really needs just a bit.
Anyway, the random/frequent tests pulled the rug out from under that all too common bit of self-deception. There could be no such thing as limited, and therefore safe, use. Any use was certain to have me busted. I was (and am) on a one-strike rule (both at home & work), so being busted would just be it. It took some time before I didn't need the certainty of detection to keep me clean. Now I can get by with just the certain knowledge that any use by me will start the whole train rolling again, and it will keep on rolling regardless of what I want. Any use will reactivate my addiction and if my addiction is active I can't control anything about it.
Meetings, meetings, meetings --- NA or AA (I go to AA). As both programs have long suggested, and a recent Time magazine says is supposrted by good science (see http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html ) a newcomer will be GREATLY helped by attending 90 meetings in 90 days. I hit at least a meeting a day for the first 250 days, now I average 5 a week.
I was an upstanding man before a serious injury exposed me to the opiates to which I all too soon was addicted. The injury was healed and the pain was gone in a couple of months, but by then I was in a relationship with the pills that I couldn't quit . . . It really got to be quite a mess. During the last few years of use the pills did nothing positive except keep me out of withdrawal. On the negative side they simply destroyed me on every level. I became mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially bankrupt. I lost my house, my practice, my reputation, my dignity and my self respect. I'm not sure how I didn't loose my wife and our four wonderful kids, but she forced herself not to act on the anger and betrayal that she felt (with good cause) and treated me like I was a very sick person who needed serious help immediately (whether I wanted it or not).
Sorry to ramble on so long, but what you wrote (especially on a visit to my rehab) really reminded me of where I was not all that long ago. I promise you, I was pretty much as hopeless and helpless as I could be . . . I was literally, in danger of dying.
Today, I am in better condition mentally, emotionally and spiritually than at any time in my life -- not just better than during my active addiction, but better condition than ever. I'm almost 50, so I think it would be a stretch to say that I'm in better physical condition than ever, but I'm clearly in the best condition for my age that I've ever been in. Also, I'm in the best condition that I've been in at any time since I was in my early 20's and just out of the Marine Corps. Financially . . . it's getting better. I'm almost out of the HUGE hole dug by my active addiction.
There is a passage in AA's Big Book called "The Promises," which is much loved by many. I used to think it was, at best, a pipe dream. I don't think that anymore, the Promises have come true for me and they can come true for anyone who is willing to surrender to Recovery.
THE PROMISES
"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them."
My advice would be to get him into rehap for as long as possible and then adopt a no-prisoners attitude with the disease.
I wish you well and I will pray for you.
LONG TERM REHAB WORKS.
An essential part of getting into sustained Recovery is simply getting off the drugs long enough for the brain to re-set, which seems to happen after about 90 days. Getting to that 90 days can be VERY tough to do unless you're in a very safe environment.
During and following active addiction, the brain chemistry is AFU. Many, perhaps most, addicts need significant treatment geared directly at the brain chemistry or it will never get back to normal. Take a look at the books: END YOUR ADDICTION NOW, by Charles Gant; THE MOOD CURE, by Julia Ross; and/or SEVEN WEEKS TO SOBRIETY, by Joan Larsen. The books can guide an addict, or someone who loves an addict, as to exactly what is needed to address the brain chemistry issues. Generally, we're talking about rebuilding neurotransmitters via amino acid supplements. I was initially inclined to view that as a bunch of health-nut mumbo jumbo. I was wrong. I think it's really critical.
A big stumbling block that is presented to many addicts attempting to change is Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome ("PAWS"). Acute withdrawal is the standard "dope-sick" business where we feel like we have the mother of all flu's x 10, and basically feel like we're going to die for a week or so, followed by a few more weeks of ZERO ENERGY. It intuitively seems like once you get past that you should be in the clear. Not so.
PAWS tends to hit the first time around 25-30 days, and then it keeps returning in cycles with a gradually decreasing frequency. A good piece on PAWS can be found at http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm That is from a book called STAYING SOBER, by Gorski & Miller. Another good book is STAYING CLEAN AND SOBER, by Miller & Miller.
One thing that was a huge help in keeping me clean during my first few months home from rehab was random drug screens. My wife found reasonably priced 4 or 5-panel urine screens on-line - we buy from http://www.medicaldisposablespr.com/drug_test_card.htm
I was screened ALOT during the first few months. Always at random and always close enough in time to the last test to pick up any use. The rule was (and is) if my wife says "pee in a cup," I say "thank you." Now I'm not tested very frequently, but I can be without warning and the next screen might be (and has been) the next morning.
The beauty of the drug screens is that they forced me to view ANY decision to use as what it in fact it really was - a decision to throw my life in the toilet. When I relapsed in the past, I never made the decision to return to my former levels or frequency of use. It was always going to be "just a little" and "just this once" or "only now and then." I never wanted to return to the living-death of active addiction, but I just need SOMETHING to get me past whatever rough spot I perceived at that moment. From a distance, and with an unimpaired mind, it might be easy for anyone and everyone to see that it the addict picks up again (at all) that he's soon going to be right back where he was. But it honestly does not feel like that's the truth (or even a possibility) when you're the one who feels like he really needs just a bit.
Anyway, the random/frequent tests pulled the rug out from under that all too common bit of self-deception. There could be no such thing as limited, and therefore safe, use. Any use was certain to have me busted. I was (and am) on a one-strike rule (both at home & work), so being busted would just be it. It took some time before I didn't need the certainty of detection to keep me clean. Now I can get by with just the certain knowledge that any use by me will start the whole train rolling again, and it will keep on rolling regardless of what I want. Any use will reactivate my addiction and if my addiction is active I can't control anything about it.
Meetings, meetings, meetings --- NA or AA (I go to AA). As both programs have long suggested, and a recent Time magazine says is supposrted by good science (see http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436,00.html ) a newcomer will be GREATLY helped by attending 90 meetings in 90 days. I hit at least a meeting a day for the first 250 days, now I average 5 a week.
I was an upstanding man before a serious injury exposed me to the opiates to which I all too soon was addicted. The injury was healed and the pain was gone in a couple of months, but by then I was in a relationship with the pills that I couldn't quit . . . It really got to be quite a mess. During the last few years of use the pills did nothing positive except keep me out of withdrawal. On the negative side they simply destroyed me on every level. I became mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially bankrupt. I lost my house, my practice, my reputation, my dignity and my self respect. I'm not sure how I didn't loose my wife and our four wonderful kids, but she forced herself not to act on the anger and betrayal that she felt (with good cause) and treated me like I was a very sick person who needed serious help immediately (whether I wanted it or not).
Sorry to ramble on so long, but what you wrote (especially on a visit to my rehab) really reminded me of where I was not all that long ago. I promise you, I was pretty much as hopeless and helpless as I could be . . . I was literally, in danger of dying.
Today, I am in better condition mentally, emotionally and spiritually than at any time in my life -- not just better than during my active addiction, but better condition than ever. I'm almost 50, so I think it would be a stretch to say that I'm in better physical condition than ever, but I'm clearly in the best condition for my age that I've ever been in. Also, I'm in the best condition that I've been in at any time since I was in my early 20's and just out of the Marine Corps. Financially . . . it's getting better. I'm almost out of the HUGE hole dug by my active addiction.
There is a passage in AA's Big Book called "The Promises," which is much loved by many. I used to think it was, at best, a pipe dream. I don't think that anymore, the Promises have come true for me and they can come true for anyone who is willing to surrender to Recovery.
THE PROMISES
"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them."
My advice would be to get him into rehap for as long as possible and then adopt a no-prisoners attitude with the disease.
I wish you well and I will pray for you.
My wife was once married to a man who had been snorting (and eating) pain pill for years .... ME! We're still married, but thanks mostly to her I haven't done that (or any other mood-altering substance) in 2 years, 3 months, and 21 days.
During the period of my active addiction she knew SOMETHING was going on, but she didn't know what . . . anyone who had known me in my adult life had a hard time believing that I would be on drugs. Maybe, , she thought, I was going crazy, or maybe I just worked too much and wasn't taking care of myself, or maybe all of the above and I hated her too.
When she finally discovered the real deal, she saved my life. She kicked me out of the house and forced me into in-patient rehab. She told me that she would pray for me, but that it was up to God if I got better or not. There was never any promise that I'd be coming home, ever. It was clear, however, that if I ever did come home it would be only after she felt safe about my Recovery and that I'd out in a minute if I ever used again.
The bottom line to her was that under no circumstances could she knowingly expose our 4 children to life with a father in active addiction. Even when you had all the using and the more intense impairment from the kids, having an active addict in the house is a cancer in the heart of the family
Below I'm going to copy & paste two of my posts from the past week that seem relevant here.
During the period of my active addiction she knew SOMETHING was going on, but she didn't know what . . . anyone who had known me in my adult life had a hard time believing that I would be on drugs. Maybe, , she thought, I was going crazy, or maybe I just worked too much and wasn't taking care of myself, or maybe all of the above and I hated her too.
When she finally discovered the real deal, she saved my life. She kicked me out of the house and forced me into in-patient rehab. She told me that she would pray for me, but that it was up to God if I got better or not. There was never any promise that I'd be coming home, ever. It was clear, however, that if I ever did come home it would be only after she felt safe about my Recovery and that I'd out in a minute if I ever used again.
The bottom line to her was that under no circumstances could she knowingly expose our 4 children to life with a father in active addiction. Even when you had all the using and the more intense impairment from the kids, having an active addict in the house is a cancer in the heart of the family
Below I'm going to copy & paste two of my posts from the past week that seem relevant here.
First i am so sorry...i agree with beach and the rest..it is really out of your hands...you need to move on with your life..your kids need to come first...i can hear in our post you have had enough..
tough love is the only thing i can see for you at this point...maybe that is what it will take to get you husband back..
again, i am so sorry..We addicts sure know how to ruin alot of lives..Some know how to stop to get it back, some don't...
Go with your gut and not your heart...your heart will always get you in trouble..
Anyway that is what my mom always told me...
:)
r2r
tough love is the only thing i can see for you at this point...maybe that is what it will take to get you husband back..
again, i am so sorry..We addicts sure know how to ruin alot of lives..Some know how to stop to get it back, some don't...
Go with your gut and not your heart...your heart will always get you in trouble..
Anyway that is what my mom always told me...
:)
r2r
My father has been addicted to pain pills for the last few years. He lost his 55k/year job 2 years ago. He lost his job because he was high on pills at work all the time. Since then it has been down hill. All he does is sit in his chair in the living room and watch television. My mother who has spina bifida, severe shoulder pain from a deteriorated socket needs some strong pain medication. We have received so many calls from her though saying that he took all of her pain medication and she can't get a refill for 2 more weeks. The entire family, my self, my brother and my father's parents have cut them off completely. We don't give them any money at all. It has been very hard. Watching him waste away with no regard as to what he is doing to his family. I certainly can identify with your pain. I am not really certified to give "official" advice. But from my experience with my father I would say move on. If I had to choose between my father, or for that matter even my wife and my children I would choose my children. Children have an opportunity to make something for themselves. It sounds like your husband is squandering his opportunity. I would like to say that by your leaving it will wake your husband up to impact of his addiction on your family. But in all honestly it probably wont. You will probably get a "I promise to do better" or a "I am done with the drugs for good". But he will most likely just end up doing them again. Move on. Life is too short.
Do you mean he has been in a methadone clinic for 2 yrs. There is nothing you can do short of tough love and tell your husband you have a date set that he gets straight or your gone, Make the date within a month, dont drag it out. Start looking in to getting some other means of support to live on and be ready when the time comes. He is in a long hard addiction that only he can try to quit and control and quit putting pills, power or needles in his body. You probable have been telling him your leaving or something like that for a long time so make real plans for him to leave or you leave with the kids and follow thru. If he is still trying to work and still tries to function than in the back of his head he knows his addiction has to end. If he does not respond to you really leaving than things were only going to get worse. Ask him to look on this forum or another if he wants to pick one (thats the way addicts are) and maybe he will see something here he has been missing. We are all just strangers here trying to help each other so no pressure to at least look.
first of all I am very sorry for what your going through......
but you cannot help him ..............
I understand that you don't want your kids to loose their dad but what you have to realize is they have already lost their father and you have lost your husband to addiction..........
It is time for tough love on your part because your main objective is to protect your family your kids....
I have worked with child protective services in the past you can get him out of there but you will need to start gathering evidence against' him........
An addict in full blown using addiction makes tons of mistakes because all they think about is filling that need..........to get high........everything else in their life is second........everything including you and the kids....sorry but it is the nature of the disease of addiction.......
I'm sorry but that is the truth and the nature of addiction....
Hang in there and protect your children....
but you cannot help him ..............
I understand that you don't want your kids to loose their dad but what you have to realize is they have already lost their father and you have lost your husband to addiction..........
It is time for tough love on your part because your main objective is to protect your family your kids....
I have worked with child protective services in the past you can get him out of there but you will need to start gathering evidence against' him........
An addict in full blown using addiction makes tons of mistakes because all they think about is filling that need..........to get high........everything else in their life is second........everything including you and the kids....sorry but it is the nature of the disease of addiction.......
I'm sorry but that is the truth and the nature of addiction....
Hang in there and protect your children....
I'm sorry you are having such a terrible time. Addiction is an illness like every other. Your husband is sick. I'm sure you know all that. I cant give you advice on what to do I'm really new at being clean but I wanted to assure you that someone who can will be along real soon. Just keep posting.
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