Naltrexone implant

[sam7400]

Hi Guys/Gals,
Im planning to have the rapid detox with implant tmoro and was hoping for some advise regarding the recovery period? my prev meds were the bare minimum 1. methodone for a few years then the last 18mnths 2.SUBOXONE= very low dose.. then last 10 days transfered to 3. 30mg of ms contin twice daily in prep for my op tmoro..in order to beat this addiction this is my last resort..does anyone know much about it?

regs,
Scared ********.

[corey411]

Sorry, I don't know about this but want to wish you the best of luck. I will keep you in my thoughts tomorrow. God bless, Corey

[spacejam1]

PLEASE read all you can about this type of detox. The admin might get mad at me for saying this but I would not be doing you a HUGE service in saying that SOME people have passed away due to this type of detox. I said SOME, its a low number but its enough for me to stay away from it. I am sure you'll be fine but its something that you must know. Its a FACT, look it up and I beg the admin to check it out that what I am saying is true before they delete this topic. It would be a shame NOT to tell someone the truth about this procedure since it is a serious one!!!!!
Much luck to you with all of this.
BTW, did they switch you to ms contin from Sub before the procedure? Just curious.

[sam7400]

Hi Thanx for the update..i understand that in America there has been some unfortunate deaths with this advanced surgery..however i think it may be just lack of research into the patients who the ( supposed Doctors ) are operating on..not the reasearch into the results..in Australia this proceedure isn't knew..it started about 5 yrs ago as a free government trial and was very successful..with the only deaths coming from the actual abuse of drugs after the patient stops taking the naltrexone tablets then relapsing..due to very clean opiate reseptors and low tolerance to drugs..after this was realised the implant was thought of..currently we have state funding for privately opperated clinics which offer it as a last step to recovery..but still costs 3 k.
In answer to you're question yes they always switch you from what ever opiate you're on to ms contin as a slow release opiate up to 2 weeks before the op..however i have heard of them detoxing straight off heroin..but i have not had any interest in the stuff for over 5 yrs..i just want my life back instead of feeling like a slave to any drugs irrespective of what it is..im so pissed right now my Doctor paid for my implant a 6 mnth one to be imported from the states and they still haven't delivered it..4 days late this is so frustrating..we paid them and they deliver late..why are they so slow to del the goods?

[theeagle]

Unfortunately the rapid detox does not address psychological issues that lead to using. Some parts of recovery just take a good deal of time. Good luck on your effort - - just dont think that you can dump the entire addiction problem in a couple days no matter what method you employ........

[sam7400]

Hi thanks for the reminder - fortunately though it's been 5 yrs clean from any foreign substance abuse ! and a complete change in lifestyle for me..hence the word "clean " & no substance abuse..i do understand however you think im still an addict or will want to use after the proceedure..well i totally understand you're views and thank you for you're very helpful comments - that i may want to deal with the root cause etc etc ..phycologically speaking isn't that what i've been doing for the last 5 yrs?..News flash " using street drugs " well thats never been an option for me over the last 5 yrs and won't be an option for the next 6 months either.. i would like to emphasise that the naltrexone implant = " NOT AN OPTION " oh i don't really appreciate the victim mentality you have phycologically speaking but good luck with you're own substance abuse therapy ".

[theeagle]

Sam - - Just because it takes some time to get beyond addictions doesnt legitamize any sort of victim mentality.  And if you have five years of clean time (no substance abuse?)  why on earth are you opting for a potentially life threatening procedure (not technically surgery) ?  I have no idea what you've been up to the last five years, but if you have been successfuly working on recovery, it still seems that the rapid detox is out of synch. Best of luck to you though - -

[sam7400]

Hi Eagle,
You are right it does take time to get over addition, i did the nalrexone implant yesterday morning at 11.30 am so DAY 1. = im not dead yet ! but really i think the first day and night was indescibably painful to the point i wanted to jump out of my skin or take my own life or die or rip the implant out with my own two hands then force a whole pack of ms contin down my throat or up my veins! but the only thing that kept me from doing so was my daughter and lovely wife.
As i mentioed the surgery isn't life threatening only your pain for the first 24 hous or the way you choose to deal with it..my last 5 years has been on a variety of prescibed oral opiate drugs including suboxone which is a partial type opiate/naltrexone which only opens the opiate receptors 10% instead of 100% .. hence not allowing u to feel sick.
It is NOW Day 2 : i dont feel like im jumping out my skin or wishing i could commit harry carry..so i also was told by my specialist who basically pioneered this procedure DR ONIEL he said you need to get as much snlight as possable on day 2+3 that way the brain help with the uncormforatble feelings.
Anyway i dont know you're history but if u are a member of this site u must have a drug history...and u seem to have many fans..so nice for you to share you're history.

Regs
sam.

[road2recovery]

I havn't read this how thread...But you are the first that i have seen to actually do the implant...I am very interested on how things keep going for you...Sounds like you have gotten out of that day 1 and night, and still with us, so I pray that things just get better and better for you each day...What courage it took for you to do this!!!
I agree 100%  Eagle has alot of history to share, and i for one have learned alot from him.
I wish you well, and keep us posted on how you are doing
god bless
r2r

[road2recovery]

sorry, for spelling, meant , have not read the whole thread..lol

[sam7400]

Hi there matey,

Thats an Australian word for friend..i am very thankful for you're prayers regarding my recovery etc..my opinion is that the second day is alot less painful than the first..hence if u can imagine detoxing from any opiate like methodone, suboxone,oxycontin,heroin etc etc it would take 3-6 months in total to get rid of the leg cramps and back ache etc etc..the method i chose took only 24 hours of hell..

So i guess it was a no brainer 24 hrs versus 1440 hrs = ( 6 mnths ) OF UNBEARABLE LEG CRAMPS ..as for all the negative comments regarding the procedure being " possably life threatening " i definateley don't think it's wrong to do the operation as long as you're mentally prepared for the 24 hrs of hell and have fully researched the doctors doing to minor surgery ( incidentally it only requires 3 stitches ) how on earth can this general anasthetic surgery of " 3 stitches " be life threatening? i was practically awake the whole time.

Im not sure if Americans have really grasped the concept of this minor operation because i've researched the costs etc - they are charging and it seems to be quite ridiculous almost 18-19k wow.. if u came to Australia it would only cost between 3 K -
5 K AU$ Depending on where u get it done etc..any how im rabbiting on a bit as i now feel so much better on day 3 and when i looked outsdie on my balcony the tree's and plants look alot greener than before..i wonder why?

God be with you Always..

Sam.

[goldenarm]

Can you please explain how the whole thing works and why did you have to have stitches and for 1 day of hell . Count me in, have to do it anyway. Please xplain it...Thanks

[goldenarm]

So you cant take a Benzo the 1st day and just sleep thru it? Please explain how it all works..

[worried878]

I have read about this technique....have heard some say they felt depressed after for a few months like most people do post wd..lack of motivation and fatigue....i am not sure if the point of skipping wds is really possible as the brain will have to heal ..this procedure can not make receptors go into remission so that u do not crave or feel the mental aspect of wd..there is a very good article in the health pages about how receptors are produced in overabundance to keep up with the constant flow of opiates we ingest..the body will adapt to almost anything and building extra receptors is the way it adapts to drug abuse..those receptors crave long after detox/hence the mental part of addiction/faigue, depression and lack of motivation/..eventually they "go to sleep/like a cancer in remission/" after detox  but they never go "away"  when they "sleep" we do not crave or feel so yucky/doomy/but this is why when u use again ur tolernece in quickly right back to where it was pre-detox...or worse with relapse..those receptors wake up and scream to be fed when u abuse again..this procedure can not alter this chemical/nuerotransmitter process...be sure u know al u need to know and good luck to u in ur recovery

[goldenarm]

But does it get rid of the day 2 - 6,7-etc real physical part of the kick? The mental is easier to deal with once your mind is made up to stop if i dont have to go thru the torture of kicking the opiate. Im working on a whole other plan right now and im 5 days into it and no turning around but am fascinated by this whole concept.Of all the things sceince comes up with they are still trying to make the addiction part better and would stand to make a fortune and help alot of people not to suffer....

[mtgoat911]

i never had the drug implanted but i did take 50mgs of revia a day which is the same drug as what was placed in your body
it did not help me with opiate cravings, also it made my hair fall out and i had to be hospitalized for jaundice even when my blood test were coming back normal
its a very tempting idea for an addict to do this, when i was told i could take a pill (revia) and not have cravings i was all over it, problem is that it didnt work, for me, i guess if i was an alcohlic i would have been the type to try antabuse
anywho, that really all the experience i have with this particular drug, i do know that the doctor on the professional addictions forum has also taken this, he maybe able to help more
the U.S is using LDN vs. the implants, not because they are trying to punish their patients but recent studies have shown that the implant is no more effective than LDN and causes less side effects

[theeagle]

A lot of people are following your experience. I hope that you continue to let everyone know how it goes..... and I also hope that it goes just fine for you.  I do have a reasonable history with different substances. Did my fiirst smack during Vietnam .... we bought pure China White at $40 a quarter ounce back then. Doing reasonably well today but paying dues for days gone by. Were that procedure available back when I may have been a candidate. Not an issue today - but I did it the old fashioned and hard way! It would be nice if a little more effort were invested in this approach. Better living through chemistry?  Best of luck to you again, mate ......  

[theeagle]

I left a bit out .......  we both basically employed slightly different versions of one approach =  I used a son instead of a daughter, though!  And I was lucky enough to have a wife that stuck around with me ...  Its not really like it was anything that I did - it was more like I responded to things that were affecting my loved ones negatively.  And that has made all the difference in the world.   You can get this done in the manner that you are approaching it - - and if you can share your experience you will possibly help an untold number of future "problem users" get back in order .......  Would be quite nice if you could put together an article or a diary for others to look at regarding your experience...  you seem to write very well .....  and it would most likely be quite rewarding personally for you..

[sam7400]

In answer to you're question earlier buddy : Apr 10, 2009 08:50PM
To: Sam
So you cant take a Benzo the 1st day and just sleep thru it? Please explain how it all works..

I would advise taking as much sleeping tablets the first day that u can get youre hands on and you'lle need the biggest strength ones, dont waste you're time with taking 10 or 20 mls you may need 200 or 500 mls as when i realised i couldn't take the pain i  got my very friendly GP to inject me with 4 x 50 ml bottles of valium into my shoulder skin only it did very little i only remember my wife telling me i was sleeping for 10 second intervals only when we finally got home.. but it felt like a good 10 mins ( wow ) how weird. So if there is a way u can knock you're self out for the first 24 hours i would emplore you to do it..

The rest of the operation consists firstly of a cocktale of about 10 different drugs given orally by the GP then the anethnetist comes in and starts with one of 4 majic mystery injections ( i imagine to send the brain into full withdrawal ) .. the preliminary 10 various oral drugs are to combat the withdrawals..the anethnitist gave me strong sleepers aswell in order to let me sleep through the operation but i have a strong tolerance to sleepers they basicaly dont work for me when combined with withdrawals so i watched the GP prep me for the 3 cm cut in the lower abdomen and then squeeze the skin with 2 finger and pushed a strange looking fat needle into it depositing the implant.. it isnt that scarey to go through and the rewards speak for themselves..

My diary for day 1 & 2 have been kind of outlined already earlier but i'de be happy to let you all know about day 3 & 4 NOW ! well yesterday day 3 i had to go a party for my best friends daughters 6th birthday bash.. i couldn't drive quite aswell as id'e like so my wife drove us there.. my energy was low but i was still able to get around somewhat..my mood wasn't unhappy at all my metal state was really quite good..just a little physically weak almost like i had been hit by a slow moving truck or something.. but no real withdrawal pains..when night arrived it was hard to sleep and i forgot to mention i had some stomache ache only at night on day 2 & 3 which is easily combatted with either 2 or 3 x immodium of ibuprofen which is available at most chemists ( for diarea (diarrhea) and stomache pains ) which you will have only a very minor dose of this particularly on day 2 ..day 3 isn't bad at all..and now day 4 is here i feel just as functional as day 2 and 3 but not much to worry about physically any more..yesterday i felt so happy and kept trying to tell jokes to my friends.. which would seem out of character considering the op i had 4 days ago..but hey i'm only human..

Take care and GOD BLESS.


regs sammy.

[theeagle]

Glad to hear that everything is going well for you. You do write well and you are spreading some information that many will probably want to see and read. And it is interesting. Keep us informed for a few more days..........Do you have any idea when the "op" will be considered either done or over with or whatever? And are you doing any sort of aftercare? NA  / counseling / whatever.......?    Lot of people thinking about this procedure may well have compromised hepatic function from HCV or something.....was that ever addressed? Any type of physical or anything pre-procedure? Or are you young enough to just be in good physical shape?  Regardless, I am glad that you wish to help some others by writing up your experience. Thanks down under!!

[road2recovery]

Thanks for writing about your experience...I agree i enjoy your writing., and very interested in how things go for you...I pray that everything just gets better and better for you!
keep us posted!
r2r

[worried878]

i have heard mixed..skipping 5-7 days of the flu/a bad flu for some/is just not a reason for me to do sumpin this extreme..but i am me and u r u and we r all different...being afraid of being sick for a week can scare people into doing some crazy crud...and can paralyze people...fear can dig u deeper into a hole than u were before.....to me this procedure/scares the stew outa me..lot worse than the flu...and the mental part was the frickin hard part/dont care how u slice it....u r in for a long haul and spending a tone of doe for sumpin that may help u with the flu/make the runs easier and the nausea etc a bit better..maybe....good luck to u...post a month from now so we know how it helped with the hard part/the mental part of wd....good luck to u tho and be safe

[sam7400]

Hey dood im not that young im now 36 yrs old and also HCV prone. but thats all thanks to quality living and diet designed by my lovely Asian wife.. i haven't ever had any issue's to speak of in that regard but yes it's also a long term worry for me to ! i do think you should address all u can first so the other issue's you mentioned don't raise their ugly heads at a most un opertune moment.. here is a copy of some thing helpful reg HCV : Drugs that depress the central nervous system—such as barbiturates, opiates, and benzodiazepine tranquilizers—can magnify symptoms. People with hepatic encephalopathy should stop taking all depressant drugs, and such drugs should be used with caution in anyone with advanced liver disease...so try and fix this before taking any rapid detox.. although im not that young or old and had a 10 yr history which really did test my resolve..to finally get rid of the crappy feelings is worth every cent.. but i'm noticing the mental is ok and now the sleeping is harder and slight uncormfortable again and this is day only sunday day 4.. maybe this will disapear if  i go for some more walking/excercies again..

kind regs sam.

[sam7400]

Hey Woried878,
Im not really sure if u have been brought up to speed with the technology?? but here's what u wrote ?? being afraid of being sick for a week can scare people into doing some crazy crud...and can paralyze people...fear can dig u deeper into a hole than u were before.....to me this procedure/scares the stew outa me..lot worse than the flu...and the mental part was the frickin hard part/dont care how u slice it u are on about matey but if u read what you're actually saying it sounds like you are scared of the whole operation and the brain receptors may be past rpair for you so fine it's you're choice if you wish to suffer mentally and physically for as long as it takes you to know you're mentally capable again..do what works for you nut my goodness ( you have drawn the short straw for sure ).. God Bless u.

[goldenarm]

Thanks for sharing all of that.Long run you were on.Can i ask what you do? What kind of shape are you in? It does sound like you are expereincing some of the withdrawls for sure. Im in agreement that for me the mental this time is easier than the physical,I thing once ive made my mind up its going to happen but i have to have that plan in place.But maybe im confused, Did u get a implant so that if you use opiates u wont get high or did you have an operation to get rid of withdrawl or both..Day 6 for me after 2 yrs run on oxys, still a little confused..

[sam7400]

It's ok you can ask me anything withing reason buddy..i am not really in superb physical shape, im avaerage height and slim guild of european background.. like i said i started using drugs on a casual basis when i was early 20's now im 36 and my line of work is corporate finance and i'de rather not get to specific about my line of work.. what do you do anyways ..are u locked up paying you're time for you're viet crimes etc ? and what nationality & age are u dood?

Anyways forget that for now i understand u have taken the big step and are 5 / days into the abstinence plan ( what is the plan ? ) you're plan is kind of confusing me aswell?  is is a straight jump from oxy contn or ms morphine to nothing? wow good luck with that oe .. can u manage working either sicknes oosing out you're pours every second? !!

I did the implant after the " rapid detox " as an insurance policy for next 6 months.. i know that this works because i paid for my ex viet GF who had to many friends half russian / half viet who quite frankly would be to close for comfort/ del..hence the word ex GF..i had to change my lifestyle and group of friends in order to excape the immediate mental temptation.. im hoping you can do the same..but anyways the implant is a good way to help you realiase you can be a normal person for those who matter the most in the world to you...and the first one i did i used a part of my super annualtion to pay on compassionate grounds.. they do give out the money but u need s couple letter fro 2 different doctors who know what the procedure is all about..ans a bdiwef quote regarding the costs and get 2 x repeated quotes for more money..hehe that should help ya..

regs'  sam.

Im online alot now cos im having slight difficulty sleeping only max 3 hours at a time ( not bad ) but im not used to that hehe.. i guess sleep comes more in time..let me know what you are using to get of you're morphine ( or oxycontim ) and what dose u jump off?..

regs samy

[goldenarm]

Yea ive always been curios, my girlfriend of years, says im nosy! Im just trying to relate with someone as closely as possible.Not trying to blow your cover or anonimity. Sorry, no offense.I havent been locked up for a long long time. A drug deal gone bad did land me in the pen for a few yrs though. That was 12 +  yrs ago.Never used An illegal drug or broke the law since. This 2 yr run on oxys was Dr prescribed.  I tried to CT and no way. So im trying Suboxone in increments of 1/4 of a pill 3 to 4 times a day. For about 10 to 18 days max. I took a week of vacation to do this at my house,i went from 160 mgs of oxys per day down to 60 in a week and umped of for 30 hrs and did a dose of Sub.Im also trying the amino,vit ,mineral thing with melatonin once and hot showers ,walking.etc.I know the Sub is making a big diferance but far from normal still.Getting a little better though because im eating again which i didnt to t well at the begining.Im going to have some rough days when i stop this this sub no doubt but i will have teh added benefiet of a couple weeks clean time and sleep and eating right along with the aminos and other things and good old sheer will power and accepatance of the forthcoming, just hope it wont be too  bad, .I hate days 2,3,4,5,6 CT they just tear me up without anything.So maybe im dragging this out a little but its doable and bearable and i just make sure do do stuff that feels rally good ,rewards; like being with my girlfriend who lives with me and getting from her what makes me feel really good etc.  Do they allow people to use computers in jail down there? What does viet stand for? Im European decent also. Im in my 50s .Been very physical most of my life from my job but age is starting to show up no doubt about that..

[theeagle]

Well - - we dont need to go to any Viet war crimes I dont believe. You werent even alive during the Vietnam experience and "the American War" - ours wasnt all that much different than the French, and the Chinese, and a whole bunch of others historically. And they all were useless. Would still be a good place to scuba today regardless.

Lot of confusion because the American approach, as far as I know, is more oriented to full sedation - IV drugs to put you down for several days - that sort of thing. Not much oral therapy involved I dont believe. And from this approach they had renal problems primarily. Along with some cardiac issues and incontinence after the procedure. I have seen some other articles by the doc that you mention - O'Neil, isnt it? - but to compare the US method to what you are describing is pretty hard. Was there a really good reason to go with the implant instead of LDN daily? It sounds like you have been working on this all for a while. But its still a little confusing to fully grasp. Is there anything as far as web site or such that describes the procedure that you went through?  Would be interested in finding a fully comprehensive protocol for this procedure.

When you are my age 36 does sound quite young. You should still be in reasonably good shape! And sleep is one of the last things to return to normal. I am aware of the various complications of HCV and hepatic involvement with pharmocological complications. Thats one reason that I asked about that aspect. In my opinion we will see a lot of interest in this type of approach. In the US it will probably take a while because of the FDA and some controversy about the earlier deaths. I have followed the Canadians some with their rapid detox out of curiosity ..... I dont need to detox from anything today and am glad that I dont have to make that call.. Were I considering that again I would want as many choices available as possible.  Thanks for your input and keep it up if you wish  - - - there is interest in the procedure and education is the best way to provide for informed choices. Hope that things continue to go well and that you get 8 hours of solid sleep soon. But you are also young enough to get by on 3 or 4 for a short while..........................

[sam7400]

Hey Eagle,
Here is a link to help exlain the LDN concept and alot of other things which may be an option but LDN is only 16% Naltrexone or ( revia )the rest is some type of filler or placebo. { http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/gazorpa/LDNFillers.html }it may be suitable to low risk stable people but the dose idn't easy to get i i personally hate relying on taking tablets everyday.

Also earlier I wasn't meaning you did vietnamese crimes but didn't you mention u used to get the quarter ounce of white **** for $40.00 from viet folks or chinese or something?..so i thought you must have been to vietaname either for work or other reasons..you see one of my best eldest friends was an Australian sniper there in the vietname war.. and he was part of the Australian group to fight them front line stuff..any who enuf about the viet stuff..sorry to hear u did time for a bad drug deal gone wrong 12 yrs ago but congrats on you're excellent progress.. i feel kind of sorry for the people in the states regarding their law enforcement policies.. i have an ex friend who is a repeat heroin dealer and he's lucky if he get's 6 mnths at a time every time he get caught it doesn't seem to matter how much of the **** he has in his car, house, hotel, or how much money stashed away he has either the courts are so bloody soft on him and other drug dealers they are back out sometimes within weeks..he doesn't care if he get caught or not it's so soft here with law/lawyers anyways..thankfully i am no criminal i just had a couple of really bad GF's who knew to many of the wrong people.

take care for now

sam.

[sam7400]

hey dood,
Im not sure if u have read this website but it kind of helps explain the whole LDN revia breakdown and it's actual active ingredients are only so minor = 16% actual real naltrexone and the rest 84% is placebo - no wonder it didnt work and you're hair was falling out etc..check out the URL = http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/gazorpa/LDNFillers.html -This may be used for cancer patients and really sick poeple to relieve the pain in small amounts.

Anyways hope it helps ..

God Bless.