Narcotics for Chronic pain

[Pixie]

I read a medical text recently that said narcotics are not approved for the treatment of chronic pain. Is this true?
I also had a fellow Fibromyalgia sufferer send me info on an "Intractable Pain Act" passed in California some years ago. This was established in part because of chronic pain patients commiting suicide after having doctors and hospitals reject their pleas for relief. (specifically via narcotic medicine)
If this pain act exists, does it apply nationwide? If Narcotics can be used legally for chronic pain, how does one go about finding a physician who utilizes them-without being accused of "drug seeking behavior"?
There are a lot of questions here-I appreciate your time.
Pixie

[spook]

I am from Australia,so I do not know about American laws on Drugs.I will have a look into it though,because it sounds a little strange.
Things are already strange enough though,at the moment a Doctor has their prescibing hands tied by POLITICIANS,who have not studied Medicine.Need I say more or do I have to spell it out,ok I will spell it out "MATERIALISM"......................$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Are you certain I spelt that correctly or should it be spelt...
Love.Intelligence,Compassion,Wisdom,Knowledge.
Who knows,at least I am not suffering and in need of OPIOIDS.
At least I try to show people the TRUTH.

[Pixie]

Yes, most of the decisions are made based on these criteria:
fear
greed
pressure
lack of time
suspicion
media hype

not a single one of these factors should ever influence a medical treatment. (perhaps only suspicion, but not if it is induced by hype)

p

[bizziebe]

I live in Texas and I know a lot of Doctor's give narcotics for chronic pain so it may be approved I will check into it to be for sure for you.I think any doctor that you go to and want narcotics for your pain thinks you are seeking drugs because they think you are a addict, and that is really sad because there are some people that are not and just want the pain to stop..In my experience with some doctor's I think they Judge you more than they treat you..Good luck

[PS >>>>Annie]

Pixie, You may be particularly interested in this site.  I am giving you guys the first peak at my story on a chronic pain website.  After posting it on a message board, at a chronic pain forum, this lady asked me to use it on another website in which she is the co-owner.  I haven't even showed my husband.  I wanted to show it to you, first.  I hope all is well, and I miss you guys.
LOVE<
ANNIE (:

ANNIE'S QUOTE
http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html

[spook]

<a href="http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html
" target="_new">http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html
</a>.

[spook]

<a href="http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html
" target="_new">http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html
</a>.

[spook]

<a href="http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html" target="_new">http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html
</a>.

[Pixie]

great site! Thank you Annie and Spook for the link.

[spook]

I finally got it right,3rd time lucky.All I was trying to do was make your link more accessable to other people,they only have to click on the one above)
I looked at the site and read your quote and I wish I was your Doctor.Are you still having trouble getting adequate pain relief,regardless after what you were stoically told by your? Doctor after your recent operation and so called post operative care is DISTURBING enough.I have had Addictions on most Opioids and it is WAY over rated(like sex is),they are not really that Addictive,actually,I should not lie,I will be honest,they are not at all addictive,if you have a life you do not want that garbage and definately NEVER EVER NEEDED IT.They are very good for pain though and it is a pitty that so many people self medicate on Opioids and CLAIM to be addicted,I am sorry that YOU have to suffer because of these selfish people,I hope you get some pain relief soon.

[PS >>>>Annie]

This is why I come here.  I can't forget all of the support that I've recieved.  Thanks for highlighting the site for me.  I noticed what I had done, but I was in a hurry. lol  
I am almost out of meds, but doing ok.  I want to get off completely, so that I can re-assess my pain.  I have no feeling down the left leg due to the nerves being severed in order to reach the plate.  I am almost pain free there.  I do have pain and discomfort in the SI area due to deg. arth. and spurs.  This has definately increased since posting for the first time in January.  I never noticed it much because of the pain meds given prior to surgery.
The doctors will bury their heads in the sand now.  They have made their money.....now I am hung out to dry. lol
I do see a new pain spec. on the 27th.  I will bring all of my records.  If this doesn't get me GOOD life long maintenance and care.....I'll be out of this state so fast, I'll forget that I was ever born here. LOL
Thank you for your concern, and I do like this rare form that your in.  LOL  I find the other form somewhat humerous too.
Take Care...Keep in touch!!!!
Annie

[Francoise]

Here's a site for people who need opiod pain medication and don't seem to be able to find cooperation due to the reasons listed in all the responses to your post:

http://www.widomaker.com/~skipb/panic.html

Sorry I don't know how to post that as a hot link, but you can cut and paste it.

Hope this helps.

Francoise

[Pixie]

Hey, Spook, what did you mean by the "last leaf to fall from the tree" comment?
Just curious
Pixie

[Jimenez]

I don't know why, but the post i sent to you saying Happy Easter back, got deleted. In fact several posts are gone. I just wanted to make sure you knew i appreciated it and responded.

[PS >>>>Annie]

I haven't been here much lately, but do recall the responses.  Sometimes I just pop in and out.  I've been active w/ chronic pain groups......and I miss  you all terribly.  You all are a great group of people. I get very depressed at the chronic board..(I haven't been there very long)it seems as though everyones efforts are hitting brick walls. Thank you for the acknowledgment.  I hope all is well w/ you. K.I.T.

Love and best wishes,

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....What a great thread,post, statement etc etc.  We need you! Chronic pain patients, that is.  I doubt the doc will be able to answer that w/o being biased.  
The gov't has acknowledged pain in thier new bill of rights that went into effect 1/2001, but many States are slow to follow.  My state acknowledged it, but in the same breath says,"look out doctors, we are watching you."  Some States like California, were pioneers in this change.  They are to be commended.
The gov't leaves certain laws up to each state, and my state is not jumping on the bandwagon.  We just had another doctor arrested for treating chronic pain w/ narcotics.  This puts our cause 5 steps back.  Now doctors will be aware of this, and probably even turn chronic pain patients away.  You do know this actually happens.  Some clinics just say they aren't taking any new patients at this time.  This is due to the amounts of meds coming out of thier clinics already, and they can't take anymore risks.  Ya know since the invention of the automobile, and heroic advancements in medicine, people survive horrible accidents and are left w/ deformaties and chronic pain.  It's a shame that we are taking this long to acknowledge pain as a 5th vital sign.  Speak out!  Reach out!  It's our Right!
Love ya!
annie

[spook]

The "last leaf to fall from the tree"in Autumn comment?. I mean`t the one that holds on the longest,although they fear not being alone,in the crumpled mass of dead leaves are special in their own way in that they have resilience and have had plenty of time for wisdom.

[Pixie]

How incredibly thoughtful and beautiful! Are you married? lol

[Pixie]

Annie, I read your story on the pain site. I am so sorry to hear about your suffering. Its funny how chronic pain sufferers end up posting on addiction websites before addiction is even an issue-I think its because so many people make us feel like addicts. "Self fulfilling prophecy" My mother is on me nearly every day about "the pills". She, who also has fibromyalgia, has given in to the societal pressure by taking the stance that narcotics are evil. I'm a grown woman, mind you, but feel like I have to stutter through lengthy explanations to mom about the pills-often lying about how many I take. She once emailed my father and asked him to contact me because I was a pill addict,(at 3 Darvocet a day!) and she feared it would interfere with my ability to be a good parent. My family doctor-the one who diagnosed my fibro-who also has fibromyalgia (does everyone have this? lol) began dodging my phone calls and giving me the cold shoulder.
Once he wanted me to have this experimental treatment called "prolotherapy". He stuck the hugest needles I have ever seen through the small of my back attempting to administer injections to the connective tissue around my hip bones. Aparently these injections would irritate the connective tissue, cause them to bulk up and become stronger, hence making them more resistant to pain. (huh?) you'll try anything when you hurt. Here's the kicker-he used NO anesthesia or analgesics. Just rammed those needles right in. My fiancee watched as the doctor literally pounded the needles past stubborn scar tissue. He said they were bending with resistance. I screamed and cried and told him to stop after about ten. I was supposed to get 50-80 injections that day (at 10 bucks a pop). I hurt for days after. He was mad at me-he made me feel like a wimp (the doc).
I read later that patients are supposed to recieve an IV drip of Demerol during prolotherapy-standard.
Why didn't he use that? Anyway, my journey with this syndrome has been one idiotic and horrific story after another.
I am disgusted that you have such obvious injuries, and you are denied relief. It is barbaric-no neanderthal. Maybe we should go back to using a shot of whiskey and a wood saw to amputate limbs, huh? Since pain is something we all deserve-since we are wimps for not sucking it up. Why use pain relief at all?
Oh, brother, I got all angry again. Sorry, Annie. I'm so glad you are here to talk to. If I was a doctor-I'd prescribe you a few gallon jugs of morphine. YOu deserve a few years of bliss after what you have gone through.
btw-isn't Spook cool? lol
Pixie

[PS >>>>Annie]

We have a great deal in common.  My family is the same way.  Once I came here questioning my reasons for wanting releif, I had to come back, because everyone here has been sooo supportive.
I get that glazed over look from my family when discussing these issues.  I felt all alone till coming here.  This open the door for me.  Now I am involved in chronic pain organizations.  
There is one person very close to me, that will tell me they have a beep (another call)when I start discussing my problems.  Hurts like hell.  This person probably thinks I make everything up. lol Yeah right.  So now I just come here and talk to my real friends.  Helps a lot.  
I can't believe that doctor did that to you!!!  Barbaric is too gentle a word.  Did you drop this doctor after that?  This is awful.  Like we want to be in this position anyway.  Doctors should be held accountable for **** like that!
Well, thank you for responding.  Feel free to vent my way anytime
Spook.....is alright!  He is one of the few, whom has given me courage to fight. Take care!
love, annie

PS...Are you still suffering.  I thought you had found an understanding doctor to treat you?

[cindi]

LOL ABOUT YOUR COMMENT TO SPOOK     IN ALL REALITY SPOOK IS MINE  LOL  HE'S MY SPOOKY LUKEY     JUST KIDDING BUT HE REALLY DOES HAVE SOME VERY BEAUTIFUL AND COLORFUL COMMENTS THAT KIND OF MAKE US FEEL SPECIAL.....HAVE A GREAT EVENING  gOOD BLESS AND i REALLY AM ONLY KIDDING   WE CAN SHARE HIM.....cINDI

[PS >>>>Annie]

Hey Spook,

I'll be your minister, when you choose your wife.  I must say though, the punch bowl filled w/ lsd will have to be thrown out, or I can't attend the reception.........LOL

Annie

PS... I had emailed you about a week ago.....I wondered what happend re: your ?? net svc..  Did you get it???  (Re;Pain crisis)If not, I will resend it.

Chin up mate!

[Dee]

Annie,
I just got done reading your quote..God, my heart really goes out to you, and I also am enraged that you are forced to suffer this kind of pain, where is the compassion? how can these doctors treat you this way? why? why? why?! you are a very strong woman, how you endure is beyond me..I know that you rely on God,and your prayers to give you strength..but honestly I know that does not take away your pain..I almost feel guilty that I have a caring compassionate doctor who listens to me and takes me seriously, I will never take her for granted again..I'm so sorry that you have to live like this..God Bless..take care
Dianne
PS-what state do you live in?

[Pixie]

Thank you so much for the link. I was responded to immediately by a representative with a doctor referral. Today I am in very bad pain, and I am grateful that it may be one of the last days that I have to worry about this. The only thing I see wrong with the site is the potential misuse by people who want opiods, but don't have chronic pain. I would hate to see these doctors who mercifully put their asses on the line for patients like myself get into trouble. For those of us who write to this board, but do have chronic pain, it may be worth your while to visit the site Francois posted here. If anything it made me  realize that there are so many people who like me, can't get treated for debilitating, life-ruining pain conditions.
I'm battling with the desire to get relief, and the fear of becoming so dependent on the source of relief that I won't be able to turn back.
Should that even matter?
If I could finally go camping again and audition for a play, clean my house top to bottom, (or even shave my legs without kinking something!) maybe the trade-off is well worthwhile.
Any thoughts?
Pixie

[PS >>>>Annie]

Thank you for the post.  I need all the support that I can get.  I just got back from my pcp, only to discover that I have blood in the urine, and will have to see a urologist.  He did give me something for pain.  I guess he figured She's been through enough, and now this.  I need your prayers.  I'm not sure what's going on w/ me now.  I am actively participating w/ chronic groups, and want to help make a change in my State.  I live in the South.  We are far behind other states in our pain treatment efforts, because of our laws here.  I hope this changes soon.  I don't rem. seeing your post before.  If you don't mind me asking, what is the nature of your injuries or illness??  Bless your compassionate doctor!  I really don't blame the doctors much, they fear their lives being ripped out from underneath them.  This just happend to a doc. in our state.  If you have a hotmail address, I would be glad to fill you in.  Thanks so much for your concern.....it gives me hope and courage.

Annie

[Dee]

I have been here all along, Iam the original 'Dee' until the other 'DeeDee' came along, then things were getting confusing with our names, so I changed my name using my birth name Dianne
take care

[Kerrie]

Hi Spook, Hi Annie,
  Your on the money about the politics of medicine Spook. It is a shame that doctors have to experience first hand what chronic pain is before they can believe how life altering it is.Or at least realize that there's true chronic pain suferers out there in need of help to make life bearable.
   Annie, as we have talked before,we both have a lot of chronic pain,mine from numerous surgeries and disease.I too was reluctant to try anything stronger than Tylenol for fear of addiction. There is abuse in my family.But the first time I tried it,it was amazing the help it gave me. I still had pain but I wasn't curled up in bed wishing I could die.I realized there was something that could give me some quality of life back. You sound very sensible Annie. My doctor explained it this way to me. Diabetics have to take inciline to live.People with hypertension have to stay on meds for their lives depend on it. I have to stay on pain meds to live without thinking death would be easier,in order to have some quality of life back. My pain ,like many on this forum , is so severe I can't do daily funtions or go places or enjoy my family without something to help me.Even with it I'm limited because of my condition. I doubt you would ever have a problem with addiction. Being dependant is different from being addicted.Dependant means you have a need for this pain med. I do depend on it and apologize to no one for it. I hope you find a doctor like mine. He's taking a stand on behalf of chronic pain suferers everywhere. So I in return am going to testify on his behalf .Keep the faith Annie. God has seen me through many trials. I was ten years finding this doctor I'm seeing now. I'll pray you all find someone like him.
     Kerrie

[Kerrie]

Hi everyone,
  I wrote you all when Cindee Put out the important message but I don't think it made it to you since that comment is gone. I went to see my doctor today and we had a great conversation. I approached him about going to MS Cotin like my Neurologist asked me to do. He was livid that this doctor was worried about me becoming addicted after me being on the same dosage for the last 11 years. That is of course when I could get the meds prescribed to me. I take 3 Lortabs , 7.5, a day. I take percocet for the severe pain  that the 7.5s don't help. I'm always prescribed enough to take 4 Hydros a day if I need it. I can manage most of the time on 3 a day. One about every 6 to 8 hours apart.  I still have pain but this at least helps.
  My doctor said as long as I'm satisfied with that strength , it was fine. But if I need something stronger in the future ,He would help me. This man knows I'm in pain. He cares. Now guess what that means? He has been reviewed twice by the medical board and is fixing to make it number 3. He gave me an article from a magazine called " Hippocrates,November issue 1999.It covers the controversy doctors face for prescribing opioids to patients other than CANCER patients.Interesting reading. I have volunteered to testify on behalf of chronic pain suferers . After reading this article ,it is easy to see why some doctors will not write opioid prescripts. He is one of the few that is willing to stand up for us. He explained that patients of chronic pain don't become addicts but dependants. He compared it to people with diabetes or hypertension, having to take meds for thier lives. Chronic pain sufferers are dependant on pain meds to get their lives back. He is really hanging himself out on a limb for what he believes is the right thing to do.
   Again I want to thank you all for your help .My daughter no longer lives in my home and she's in much need of help. But many of you have given me good advice.I can't make her get help but with your help I was able to get her to do some thinking.Also,My mother died one year ago as of May 2nd. I know how hard it is cindee, but time has a way of easing our sorrow. Hang in there.Thanks again everyone.
                       Kerrie

[spook]

No,never been married or divorced and have no children.But their are plenty of people crying out for love,REAL LOVE.
    I am not disolutioned or insecure about a successful marital love or the resulting love for my future children,but come from divorced parents and I think this changes my hope for Unconditional love being a part of marriage.As far as unconditional love goes between parent and child,my mother tries to impose conditions upon her love for me(why bother,she could not stop loving me if she tried or wanted to).
    Not to say that I am turning down marriage proposals or would not have problems myself in a marriage as far as unconditional love goes,but their are other types of love like "Brothery" Love and these seem more important right now in my life and particularly fellow humans suffering on our precious planet-Earth,our HOME.

[spook]

Dear Kerrie:-To become a Doctor one only needs a good memory to pass the exams,after that they are interned to work under supervision in a teaching hospital and after that they are set loose on the unsuspecting public(who used to respect them),the tools of their trade are Medications,some call them drugs,they do not know much about drugs or the Human Mind and get most of their information from the Pharmaceutical Companies that are Making the BIG dollars,out of the INDUSTRY.
90% of the drugs that Doctors prescribe do not CURE the illness,they merely mask the symptoms.
One cannot blame the General Practioner as they only know what they were taught.
Occassionaly in life one comes across a trully intelligent compassionate person who is also an expert in Medicine.
You are lucky to have found this person.
p.s. during the 1950`s almost half a Pschiatric patients where "CURED" by remoralization and released from the institutions(then came Chlorpromazine,Tricyclic Antidepressants and basically the rest is history,you know-$$$$$$$).Food for though.
Forgiveness anililates anger.
Lets hope tomorrow is a better day,although another one like today would not be bad.

[spook]

1.If and when I get married,GOD will choose my wife ,NOT ME.
Besides she will be no mere wife,but a Goddess,I will shower her in Love and Riches beyond Mortal Comprehension.I will be her slave as she wishes,she will be like Cleopatra of egypt and when she is done with me(not likely) I will thank her for allowing me to SERVICE her.
2.Or how about this one?,I will give her enough rope to get from the kitchen to the bedroom and if any problems a little more to hang herself.
Now you tell me which is the real SPOOK?.Who`s the MAN?,or is their something between these two extremes?.
Clue:Keep in mind I am really good in bed(a true Romantic/Lover and very creative) and a Great Cook,well actually an EXCELLENT cook.Also I do Understand (GOD).

[ssmnita]

I live with chronic pain -- sometimes excruciating pain, grinding pain -- I have for a number of years. It is not likely that it will ever stop until I enter Heaven.

I am a retired RN and I am fully aware of the uses and dangers of narcotics. They can be a wonderful help and they can cause what some call a "living hell." They can also kill you!

When I was taking Oxycontin I wanted to get off of it. I asked my doctor to reduce my dosage and he did. When I was at a minimum dose, I personally reduced the number of times I took it until I went from 2 tablets a day (the normal dosage) to 1 tablet a day. IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET OFF OXYCONTIN or any other such medication!

Since pain can affect your thinking and your judgement, ask a responsible family member if possible to help you keep up with when you take narcotics and how much you take. This can help you gain control of your life again!

The medication insert warns that you should never break the tablets in half. This could cause the medication to be absorbed too quickly and could kill you!

Oxycontin is a popular "street drug" and it kills quickly when abused. If you are on it, be wise and don't tell strangers you are taking it. Some people might hurt you or even kill you to get it.

Take this medicine ONLY as instructed and KEEP IT AWAY FROM CHILDREN!

I once counseled a young woman who was hospitalized and taking a drug regularly "around the clock" so much that one could tell time by when her light went on asking for the medicine -- which was also a "street" drug -- popular on the street. I warned her that she needed to ease off it. That she might accidently overdose and kill herself. About 2 weeks later, she did this very thing and died! So sad!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU! GET HELP IF YOU NEED IT! RUN FOR IT!

[kimmie1976]

Hi, annie and all other's like me, I too live in the state of Texas, I have only lived here for two years but they have been been the worst of my life. I HAVE ALWAYS SUFFERED FROM CHRONIC PAIN IN MY BACK AND KNOW I HAVE SEVERE PAIN in my left side of my shoulder sometimes so severe i can't even get out of bed. I can't even keep a job very long because the pain is so bad it brings me to tears! I have a 9 yr old boy, he is my world . I can't even play with him, and go do things with him that i know i should be able to at my age which is 33 but i feel like i am in a 100 yr old body, just hanging out. Do u know what i meen. I have been to so many doctor's and they act like i just want to swallow pill's, that's not it at all. Most of them cut me off after a ouple of month's because they fear i will be to depenet on them at such a early age, they all tell me to take over the counter meds, and beleive me i have taken them all!!!!!!!   lol i DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE TO TURN, I HAVE OTHER PROBLEM'S AS WELL  BUT  my pain doesn't get any better as the days go by can anyone help me and my family? My family and friends think its all in my head, and when i start talking about it them as well as my doctors (old doc's lol) say they same thing.... Please help me i am too young for this!