Need Help making a decision

[emwave]

I am on 20mg of methadone and just want off.  I have an appt with a Sub doc on Monday, but I really hate to get into that, as going to methadone was a big mistake (they way over dosed me -- and I made it clear that I wanted to withdraw from opiates, not get more addicted and then maintained).  So is it possible for me to take the Sub for a couple of weeks (maybe 3) just to get off the methadone?  The doctor said he was going to start me at 2 mg, so that gives me some hope that he understands I don't want to be on the Sub long.  Or shoulld I just start dropping the Methadone a few mg every 3 days and be done with it?  I really need some help making this decision -- please, any response will be helpful.  Thanks in advance.

[Lisa034]

Gosh sweetheart that is a good question. I really dont know. I thought about the same thing. I dont how it is where you are but here in florida sub is a lot of $$$$$.  Double the price of the methadone.  That was what made my mind up.  The clinic I go to they do sub and methadone. I dont know if you have the funds then maybe. I guess just see what the doc has to say.  Write down a list of questions to ask him so you dont forget. Ask him is the wd the same.  Do people use sub to get off methadone?  Make sure if you are on any meds that you can take those with the sub.  I am stumped it is a good dang question.  Keep us posted let us know what you decide to do and how you are feeling everyday

Lisa
Jacksonville,FL

[avisg]

Yeah that is a hard thing  Its very wise to only stay on the sub for 21 days on the lowest dose possable.I am not sure whether it will be enough time to get threw the methadone WD but it sure would get you over the worst part.it sounds like you have a good doctor

[kolo13]

I have way too much experience quitting every which way. I don't know if that makes me a good source of information or not. Thank god your methadone dose isn't too high. I had to come down from 120/day and it took months of hell. But I really don't think suboxone is the same kind of trap that methadone is. It has helped me get off high doses of opiates. The suboxone was then much easier to taper off of and quit. This time I'm going to take it longer (I'm on day 5 on my latest attempt at a clean life) because as long as I'm taking suboxone a relapse is just a waste of time, the opiates would be  totally blocked. And taking suboxone feels like I'm clean, not like I'm just taking another drug like with methadone. If you were taking a few pills a day then taking suboxone would be just getting you in deeper perhaps but once you make it to methadone - even a low dose - you have an awful lot of hungry receptors that have to be dealt with and I think the suboxone can help a lot. I hope this helps, good luck.

[emwave]

Thanks.  Since I've been on a low dose (was at 13mg last winter, then dropped to 6 but went back up to 20 a month or 2 ago because I felt so lousy) he doesn't think I'll have any problems with the sub (as in getting off it).
I guess my real problem is that I was taking other opiates with the methadone -- I have a feeling that if I didn't do that, I'd be off the stuff by now.  Of course, that's not something I can tell the methdone place or they'll take all of my take-homes away from me and I will go insane if I have to go there every day.  Three times a week is really pushing it -- never mind 7 days a week!
So it really is a big decision.  On the other hand, I haven't been above 20mg for at least a year, and the 20mg has just been the past month or 2.  I know I dropped to 13mg before the holidays last year and stopped dropping just because I didn't want to run into any problems during the holidays and then a vacation in January.
I'd just hate to get addicted to something stong like Sub.  I never should had been on Methadone for more than a month or so to detox from hydros -- but it seems we all know how that goes..
Any comments would really help me.  I've already cancelled an appt with the Sub doc once -- if I do it again, I may not have another chance.  In the state I live in, Sub providers are only allowed to have 20 patients each -- and he's the only Sub doc left in the state who isn't "full".
I really don't know what to do.

[kolo13]

I feel for you. Methadone is such a trap. As you know now you have a much more serious addiction problem,at least physically, than you did before you started taking methadone. I'm wondering what kind of extra opiates you're taking now that will poke through the methadone. That's just exactly the path I followed to go from being a pain pill addict to being a junkie who has passed all the lines I never thought I'd cross. I think the suboxone is sent from heaven to at least give me a chance at getting clean. Unlike the methadone it does not create cravings for more and it blocks any extras you might try. It also has a ceiling on the dosage, you really can't get more out of taking more - a real help for somebody like me who always has wanted more, more, more. You are still at a place where you actually have a choice. You could quit that amount of methadone and eventually you will feel better but you could also take suboxone and be way better off than you are now. I will do my own version of praying for you and the decision you need to make. Good luck emwave.

[emwave]

do you think 2mg is enough to make me feel better?  I always hear about people starting at a much higher dose for the first few days.  There's part of me that is afraid that 2mg won't be enough -- yet I'm happy that he's keeping it low.  It's so confusing and frustrating.  But now is the time.  I have decided that either I'm going on Sub for a short time or just dropping the methadone dose over the next 3 weeks.  I don't want to be high -- I just want to be functional.

I do recall before I dropped way down on methadone that I was very comfortable at 25mgs -- and it surprised me.  But I wasn't taking any other opiates then.  So part of me says just tough it out for a couple of days and finish off the methadone.  And another part feels so lousy that I just want something to keep me from feeling sick asap.

also, did you sleep ok once you swapped to sub?  Thanks -- appreciate the feedback.

[sid3]

You need to remember that sub works better when less is taken. Unlike other opiods, less really is more effective.  Three weeks to finish getting off of methadone or starting an entirely different treatment. IDK that is a tough call for you. I guess it comes down to what you feel will best suit your recovery. Whatever you decide make sure you only stay on sub for a short time if you don't plan on making it a long term maintenece medicine. There is a very fine line when it comes to the wds sub can have. 2mgs is a lot of sub in many peoples opinion. You may find it is more than enough.

[emwave]

yes, I know less is best.  But I'm going to be in a really tough spot if it isn't enough as I will not take it for more than 3 weeks -- no way I'm getting addicted to that.  If I had more time, it would be better.  But as I said above, I already cancelled on the sub doc once -- if I do it again I don't think he'll be willing to set up another appt.  Sub docs are in very short supply in this state -- he's the last one that isn't "full" -- but in a week from nowI could fin myself on a waiting list (provided he's even consider seeing me).  

[kolo13]

Wow, maybe my experience is somewhere out on the tail of the bell curve. I'm taking 24 mgs/day of suboxone, down from 32 mgs/day for the first few days and this is the cleanest I've felt for a long time. I've tapered off this amount in the past with very little problem, nothing at all like the wd's I've gone through from various opiates. I don't think it is anywhere near as addictive or as hard to get off of as methadone. But like I said, I'm going to take it longer this time and use it to help keep away cravings until I have more time away from dope. When it's time I think it will be relatively easy to stop, at least compared to everything else I've taken. I think you should keep this appointment and at least talk to the doctor, ask some questions, and then decide what to do. Just skipping the appointment sounds a lot like complicated addiction thinking to me, you know, when you've put yourself in a position to have fewer choices, and it's not really your fault that you have to take more dope to quit taking dope. Anyway, that's how my brain seems to work. If you at least talk to this doctor you won't be cutting yourself off from a possible source of help. Good luck.

[kolo13]

Oh, by the way, no I am not sleeping much while taking suboxone but I am certain that I am sleeping better than if I wasn't taking it at all.

[emwave]

Oddly, as lousy as I feel, I am able to sleep.  Not sleeping well would be a big problem for me.   Sounds like I need to ask more questions.  And u r right, limiting my choices is an excuse -- thanks for pointing that out.

[sid3]

Taking sub late in the day is usually the cause of poor sleep while on Sub. If taken in the morning and/or early in the afternoon it shouldn't have any negative impact on sleeping

[worried878]

tough one...u r switching narcotics to get off another...i am not so sure sub is any easier to get off of than methadone..and the chance is there that u can end up stuck on sub..having taken both/for nrg which is why i used/i would choose sub over methadone anyday of the week cos i liked the buzz...but i was a hydro user so sub was a big step up for me strength wise..it may not have this effect on u having a tolerence to methaodne..tough one....20 mgs is the dose of methadone where they say it is safe to make the transition...and as stated money is an issue when u go on sub..but if u truly beleive u can get on and off of the sub in a few weeks then money is not really an issue cos cleandom is ur ultimate goal...know that being on sub does not make u "cleaner" than being on methadone...lots of factors come into play like finances/a good sub dr cos most r out for the bux/and a strong desire to be clean...typically methadone wds can last up to a month..so if u jump off sub/trying to get no higher than 4 mgs and try ur best to stay at 2 mgs or less/at 3 weeks/the cut off time in theory to avoid sub addiction/then u will possibly still have a bit of methaodne wd residuals on board..so u will have to let go of the sub and u will possibly still not feel well for a while..if the dr is willing to keep rx-ing them for u then u may fill them to feel better and then have sub problem to contend with

If it were me and i decided to go on sub..i would make an agreement with my dr on dose and length of use...that he will not give it to u but for 21 days or less even if u beg..or u will be right back where u r now just on a different narcotic

[emwave]

I called a number my Sub doc had given me -- he felt that they would help answer a lot of questions I have.  Well guess what?  They actually told me I should wait and not rush into the appt on Monday.  I was shocked -- I thought they'd try to push me to take it, but the woman seemed to fear that I'd end up getting addicted to the Sub and go through a really bad time getting off.  I'm going to call and cancel the appt, explaining that I feel like I'm rushing into it.  You know, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders.  Maybe I'm doing the wrong thing, but in my gut I don't think so.

[gnarly_1]

hey girleee....wow what to do what to do.....friggin addicts like us dont do well with
choices like this..LOL ...well im going to give you an alternative that worked for me
and hasn't had a horrible  ending ....you methadone dose is low iv just came off
150mg over 8 1/2 mo and have been clean going on 4 days now if i where you
id taper off the methadone your so close to being done with it....I to struggled with
20 mg but i used a taper of 10% every 72hr and it was very doable ...gets you off
relatively fast and I think it is as painless as you can make it I was on methadone
for 6 1/2 yrs so i expected the final withdrawal to be horrible but in the end I did 1mg
a week (last 10mg) i suffered withdrawals  but they have been manageable and my
final withdrawals have been no worst then the last few weeks so dont let it scare you it can been done with only a reasonable amount of discomfort good luck on whatever you decide ...Gnarly    

[emwave]

Thanks gnarly.  When I told the person on the phone that 1 or 2 percs would give me a buzz, she pretty much told me that I could be headed for big trouble if I get hooked on Sub.  She also told me that docs pretty much never put people on it for only a month, so she figured I'd end up getting hooked on the sub and then have to wd from that.

The more I think of it, the more I'm thinking I REALLY don't ever want to be on an addictive drug with a long half life.  I have to get through the methadone thing, and I will.  Your story really inspires me, and I thank you for that.

I have been excercising a lot the last few days and I think it really helps -- I'm not struggling at 20mg and feel ready to drop.  I'll probably drop to 17mg (since they have that dose and I have take-homes) and see how I feel after a few days.  Did you do (or are you now doing) a lot of excercise?    I have to day, 150 to 0 in 81/2 months is unbelieveable.  When did you first notice any w/d (at what dose, that is)?

I'm really happy for you -- you know each day is going to get better  :)