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Avatar universal

Need help and suggestions on oxycodone/fentanyl/methadone

Am posting here to see if I can get some help.  Generally I'm in the pain management forum but am getting no answers and seems like the board is absent a lot of regulars.  Have also kept up with this forum due to family members addictions.  I'm not an addict but am dependent and find myself in a terrible predicament.  I'm hoping someone here can give me some guidance.  I'm sort of desperate.  I think I have my background on my profile.  Have never abused my meds

Am presently on 60 mg. oxycodone every 4 hours (round the clock ... don't sleep due to pain.)  Also was on 75 mcg. fentanyl every 48 hours.  Just went to 50 mcg every 48 hours.  Not sure how that will work.  (I asked to decrease meds.)  I've started cutting back on my oxycodone as well.  I am definitely having withdrawal symptoms.  I had the beginning of withdrawals once and it was horrendous (due to script late in the mail.)  Due to a worker's comp insurance issue, I will be losing my coverage temporarily.  So ... what to do???  More afraid of withdrawals than the pain.  Though the pain is screaming through me at the moment.  

I'm 48, single mom of 4, with an additional stepdaughter.  Somewhat supportive fiance (in the verbal sense ... loves me to death but fairly useless with anything really other than that!)

My doctor has suggested methadone (I think because it's cheap.)  I said no initially.  Fiancee says "listen to the doctor; she knows what she's talking about.)  Truth is, I was NEVER told about dependence.  We talked about addiction and my fear of it at EVERY visit.  Not once did anyone say anything other than, "You won't get addicted.  Don't worry about it.  You read too much.  People that use pain killers for REAL pain don't get addicted."  Well, they never bothered to tell me that addicted or not, withdrawal is the same whether you're an addict or just dependent.

Right now I am so anxious I can't stand it.  (I have high anxiety anyway.)  I'm afraid of withdrawals.  I'm not physically or mentally strong.  I used to be but a really bad abusive marriage, losing my mom, and kid issues along with my failed surgeries have beaten me down badly.  

Please, someone help.  Should I do the methadone?  Even short term?  Will it cover the withdrawals from all the narcotics I'm on?  (Pharmacist thinks it's fine, but also suggested suboxone, though I don't believe that covers pain.  And from what I've read about suboxone, you have to be in the height of withdrawals to start it.  I want to avoid that.)

My hat is off to all of you have gone through this and come out the other side ... whether it's been once, twice, or a hundred times.  I am humbled by this ... never ever thought this could happen.
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Avatar universal
TO ALL OF YOU ---THANKS THANKS THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION, THE COMPASSION,ETC!!!  i AM READING FORUMS ALL OVER THE nET AND MOST WILL NOT LET ME POST WHAT i FEEL?

THere are still good caring folks in this world mostly?  If not laurel453 post it for them all. I just can't say it enough ---information is power but most of you care that most of us are getting high---IT FREAKING HURTS!!!   God your God bless you alll for this you created for me to read.
***@****  I have never doe that before and it i stupid and may close that email down but I just want to show you all I am real and I thank you immensely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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617347 tn?1331293081
welcome here too, ashelen.. :) are you taking anything to help you with the RLS ? they are homeopathic remedies and some mineral supplements that really help . I would not make any decisions until you are well after the first week. In the middle of wds, we are not in the best frame of mind to make a  decision.... There is also the rebound pain from what i have read and after some days, pain might become more bearable... Ok, just wanted to show to both of you my support now.  
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1035252 tn?1427227833
thanks Sara you're an awesome cheerleader...still hanging in there. headache from HECK right now. exhausted...I really hope I sleep tonight. trying to grab sleep between being woken by 2 young ones and battling RLS is killing me....really really considering not getting my refill or handing it to my DH so I can only take them if I desperately need one and not have to take them 24/7....I wonder if that will work? i never take them when I don't need them, I was just prescribed them to take "around the clock to stay ahead of the pain"...oh well that's a thing to consider tomorrow my brain hurts too much...not as weepy though!
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495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
You are stronger than you realize~~You dont have to abuse your meds like many of us did to feel the way you do now.  Stay as positive as you can during this as that helps too.  You can do this!!         sara
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Avatar universal
Wow, what a shocker eh? Now those are the wd's I'm talking about! Kinda get's your attention when it hurts down to the cellular level. I don't usually do this, but I looked up fentanyl conversion to oxy. I'm not a professional or trained, " this is my disclaimer". It looked loosely like 75mg's of fentanyl is "roughly" equivalent to between 112.5 and 157 mg's of oxy. DO NOT take my word for it! As I mentioned before these tables cannot be used in reverse, and I of course don't know what oxy or anything else is going on with you. So, lets just guess it's about 2 to 1, ok? If you went down from a 75 to a 50, that's sorta kinda like taking 50 mg's of oxy out of your daily dose. Also, let me say I'm not suggesting anything as far as dosing or any kind of taper schedule! You reduced the equivalent of 50mg's more or less of oxy a day and then tried ct'ing off your oxy as well. There are many people trying to quit a habit smaller than just the eq, 50mg oxy! It's a lot and especially with pain issues. That's part of why I mentioned above about the patches, when you titrate down the  jumps are big. Also, taking two kinds of meds, minimum, you have a cross addiction going on. Every move up or down or sideways on these very powerful meds you are going to feel it, and again there's the pain issues. Like Gnarly above said your on quite a "cocktail". For me I'd want to get everything over to just one type of med. I believe oxy and norcos and percocets all have the same active ingredient, again don't take my word for it. The difference's are minimal except strength and whether their IR, or ER extended relief. I think it's hydromorphone? Another mention here is you woke up, miserable, it's at those times for me I'd have broken the 30's into smaller bits and tried to see if 15 +/-, would do the trick, they work pretty fast and you can take more. Working it like that is easier than messing with a patch. My understanding is you only have the oxy 30's? Those are IR, correct? Those are for breakthrough pain? What you want is difficult but obtainable, many here have. Luckily we're not addicts so we can taper, but like I said it hurts all the way down, but in smaller pieces. I could see if I was just using then ct, might have been better, It's a bit different dealing with the pain thing. But, for me like others the pain level will reset, it will and so will the tolerance level. I too may have to take narcotics again for pain management but I will fight it with everything to not take anything narcotic and am fighting the discomfort as I type, but my heads clear and I'm me, and I want that. Little steps ok? Chill, it's just part of it, It will be ok, this too shall pass.
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1035252 tn?1427227833
I'm so glad you've got a plan and I really hope it helps you...I'm so close to breaking down and calling my doctor but I really just need to stay "clean" for a little while and do some evaluating of my life, I'm really trying to see this through to the end like you.....I don't want to get my refill before the 7th. That's the day I've determined if I'm going to take meds again I'm going to refill it to give my body time to get "normal" again...that will be about 2wks from when I stopped taking the last script. I called my dad and he's going to let me come over and take a bath at their house tomorrow (we only have a shower at our current place, which we rent, but we're buying a house which will have a bath-tub, yay).

as I was writing this I had to pause because my dad came over to give me a hug and some encouragement....he really is my best friend outside of my husband and I know that I'm lucky he was willing to turn around and drive an extra 30 minutes just to cheer me up.

I'm so determined to do this. the 7th. that's 6 days not including the day of the refill and today. I'm going to do this because I want to get control of my pain management. I wish I didn't hate life so much right now. I've decided that if I DO decide to refill that I'm going to give my script to my husband and only take something if I'm in a lot of agony and stop anticipating the pain and stop fearing what "might" hurt....

it just doesn't seem fair. I took as directed, never got high, never had any sort of craving outside of wanting the pain to stop and here I am...suffering through it. hydrocodone (and the other narcotics) are really quite evil. I can't imagine the battle those of you who are mentally/emotionally addicted go through....I have a whole new respect for the strength you all have and I promise that when I'm strong enough to hold my OWN shoulders up I will be a shoulder for anyone who needs to cry or lean on that is going through their battle. I may only understand the physical part of it and not be able to lend too much support but I have so much respect right now....I feel like a wuss since I'm only combating one aspect of this.

Mellie - I'm going to send you a message.
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401095 tn?1351391770
I am thinking u r not elderly, as you mentioned kids.  The bad thing bout narcotics for chronic pain is tolerence.  I am a chronic painer for 25 yrs.  I must admit tho, if my dr had prescribed me the amount of meds you are on, i would have nvr taken more than prescribed, in fact, i woulda had trouble taken all of that in a day, but we are all different

Methadone is a good pain reliever...wds should be no worse than fentanyl wd, but again we r all different.  Fentanyl is said to be the strongest narcotic prescribed for pain tho, and if it is not working, I am not sure why ur dr is suggesting methadone?  But sometimes one thing works for one and sumpin else for another.
Thing is, at the doses u r on of narcs, it is scary to think what they will be 10 yrs from now.  Out of curiousity, hoiw long have you been on the narcs and what was your starting dose?  
My dr gave me like 30 10 mg hydros a month, and yes, I abused.  In 5 yrs I only  made it to 100 mgs, when i started at 5 mgs a day.  I guess I didnt do too bad in the scheme of things and it coulda been worse.  I do not like being controlled tho, and the pills controlled me.  My family told me I was a free spirit the other day,which hit me kinda funny, but I know my spirit did not like control by hydro...it broke my spirit.

Chronic pain and narcotics are tough..decisions are tough..and if u r an addict like me...it is even tougher.  I remain in pain on a daily basis, discs are missing, plates in my spine and will not get another....but the pain of addiction was worse for me.  It doesnt sound like u feel u r an addict....maybe u never will be...i hope not

good luck to u
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Avatar universal
I don't care, Ashelen :) Glad you posted but sorry you're dealing with this.  Especially with having a new baby.  DON"T know how you can do that!  I have 5 (one in college).  My youngest is 11 ... it's still hard, but at least I can sort of direct from the bed.

I'm feeling MUCH better.  The doctor called me back and I was brutally honest.  I want off this stuff but I'm going to do it with a taper.  I took a 30 mg. oxycodone, and she told me to cut back to four a day from now until I see her on Monday and then we'll figure out a really good taper.  

Ashelen, I wish I knew what to say.  I'm as bewildered by this as anyone.  Deep down I know I'm still not addicted mentally.  I've never taken more than I'm supposed to, usually less. But still the end result is the same.  I am hoping I can taper this down, both the Fentanyl and the oxycodone, until I'm at nothing.  Then I can reevaluate my true pain and go from there.  If I end back up on narcotics, which is likely, it will be kept to a minimum.  Not this regular every 4 hours stuff.  The level they had me at was way too high.  I wasn't enjoying my life on it anymore.  In the beginning it helped me function, and at the end, I lost all motivation.

Vicki, you know this is something I've been on the fence about since I started the whole pain management program.  I've wrestled with it every day.  I only wish I had listened to my gut initially.

Thanks to all who respond.  Every word helps.  I'm sure I'll keep posting.  I'm seeing this through to the end.  I'm not giving in, just taking it slower for my family.
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495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
I dont think mellie will care......Eat bananas as they are good in potassium and helps with RLS.  If you like Gatorade drink that.  Fluids is very important.  Caffeine will make you jittery so watch out for that.  The more you move around the better you will feel.  Crying is a big part of this so just cry away~~~
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1035252 tn?1427227833
Thanks sara - I don't want to hijack mellie's post but i'm having a hard time. I just don't know if I should refill my script when my "holiday" (ha) is over......I keep listening to "unstoppable" by rascal flatts ( lol - i'm such a sap) and I'm just so down right now....I know I need to get this stuff out of my system and stay that way for awhile before I can even make an informed decision. I never thought I would be here, making this decision....my med level was so low and it controlled my pain so well, I never even once considered that it was going to cause a problem....that and, as you know, I've seen someone I love go through some serious issues with addiction lately (he spoke to his doctor and is on the road to recovery btw....part of why this drug holiday means so much to me).

gah I don't even know what I'm saying I'm so all over the place. I'm so glad I did this, but I'm hating life right now. and I have a big decision ahead...thank you so much for responding. I can't stand the restlessness...I exercised and that helped but I want to crawl out of my skin. and I can't stop crying!
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495284 tn?1333894042
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi and welcome to the forum~~

Your emotions will be all over the place right now.  When the tears come let yourself cry.  I used to literally cry watching a commercial!  Your sleep pattern will be messed up too and you will feel fatigue.  This does go away.  If you can, take warm baths or showers as that will help with the aches and pains.  Dont worry about PAWS right now.  You are having wd's right now and what you are feeling is normal.  I know this is hard.  We all understand what you are going thru so keep talking with us.    sara
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1035252 tn?1427227833
Hey Mellie - I know you from the PM forum and I never post here but I always scan it because, like you, I have family members with addiction issues and I won't lie...I love reading people's success stories. Reading people's "30, 60, 90, etc clean" stories always gives me a smile.

I wanted to break my silent lurking and post because I can completely relate to what you're going through. When I told everyone that I had switched to a PM doctor and that he was fond of "drug holidays" I wasn't kidding...I'm on a "drug holiday" right now and I'm climbing the walls. I've done them before with little to no problem, but I don't know why right now I'm going through it all - every single withdrawal symptom in the book even though I was only taking 5mg norco 3x a day...I'm to the point of wondering if I even want to go back on pain meds when my refill comes despite my pain because I don't ever want to go through this again. I used to take a lot stronger meds....MS-Contin 3x a day along with 7.5mg lortab every 4-6 hours at my strongest, and coming off of that was hard but  I just stepped down to lortab with no MS-Contin, and carefully planned "drug holidays" over the years have led me to keeping my tolerance very low - after 5 years of pain management, I can still be knocked flat by 5mg norco.

Anyway enough of me...I just wanted to tell you I can relate. My doctor is on board with me and if I called him I could end this misery...but just the fact that i'M in this hell proves that I need to be doing it...I won't refill until the 7th or 8th, IF I decide to...I just don't know what to do. I don't crave the pills, never took them to get high, but now that I don't have them I feel like smashing down walls, or bursting into tears...I barely slept last night, like you, and like you I have children (a 2 1/2 year old and an 8-month old) so I can't just give in....

I hate this. I really do. I keep bursting into tears at nothing....hang in there Mellie we can do this together....don't push yourself too hard though, fentanyl is sooo hard to come off of from everything I've heard, so don't expect miracles.

I hope your doctor calls you back soon ....I'm on your team, and I'm going through all the same stuff - please PM me if you want to talk...I'm also weighing the same decisions as you. I haven't had a norco since saturday morning and I know I should be through the worst of it, but doing research I'm suffering emotional and physical PAWS and I want to tear my hair out....I never thought, like you, that being physically dependent would amount to the same thing as addicted when it came time to no longer take meds....all that careful self-analyzing and weighing that I did to make sure I never became an addict has come to NOTHING in the end. This drug holiday was the best and worst thing I could possibly go through.
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Avatar universal
Hey Mellie--  It's been awhile!  I'm sorry you're suffering so much here. A couple of things:
I think you dropped too much too fast!  If you want to taper anything, it's best to do it slowly; you dropped the Fentanyl by 30% and then the oxy by a bunch!!  Anyone would feel terrible!
Calling the doctor is the best thing. You have to be comfortable!  We've had long discussions in the past about the meds and I know this has always been a big fear...I might have lowered the Fentanyl but left the oxy alone for awhile until I was adjusted. But I guess there's also an insurance issue?  How long will you be without?  Is it possible to cover the cost yourself until then?

I'd hate to see you go on Methadone or Sub for pain management. That's just me ...

I know how strong you are and how smart!  Hang on here and keep writing. Ask the doctor for an rx for the oxy and just continue on the Fentanyl taper. One thing at a time,okay?
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Avatar universal
I took methadone for a week and was hooked, it mimics the high from oxycodone so it did not work for me. I liked it more than the oxys.  Talk to your doctor about weening down slowly and an opiate blocker, antinauseau drug and xanax which helps with the sweating and emotions.  I just went through an hour with my doctor and methadone did not come up at all.  I got it from a friend when I went through w/d last year.
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617347 tn?1331293081
Of course you are not weak, mellie.... and i think that you need a taper plan that you can follow so i hope that your doctor will help you truly with one. Are you taking those mineral supplements ? it might help now
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Avatar universal
I have two calls into the doctor.  I'm told she's in the hospital but not on the floor.  Was totally honest with the secretary and told her I'm in withdrawal bad and need some help.  Hopefully since I am not an addict and supposedly just dependent she will be open to helping me.
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1580085 tn?1400940838
you are not weak at all, your trying to get off some serious stuff, and its very difficult, dont beat yourself up, i hope you get the help you need and deserve.you will still do it ,so take care, and god bless
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Avatar universal
I failed.  Miserably.  I woke up before 5 am screaming in withdrawals.  The stomach stuff, the sweats, every fiber screaming in pain.  I just caved in and took 30 mg. of oxycodone.  The last one.  I'm calling my doctor today and telling her I'm in withdrawal.  I think jumping down from 75 mcg. to 50 mcg. fentanyl patch and then trying to stop the oxycodone cold was too much.  

We had a very serious issue with two of our kids yesterday.  It involves legal stuff and now I just can't handle the withdrawals on top of this.  I hope my doctor is going to be good.  She has always promised me she would never let me go into withdrawals.  Well, now is the time I'll find out.  I can't do this this way.  Yesterday I really felt I could conquer things.  Today, I can't even move.

I am hoping she is going to come up with a plan for me.  They open in about an hour and I'm calling then.  In the meantime, due to these kid issues, my fiancee is going to have to move back to his dad's temporarily along with his daughter.  Hopefully this will get straightened out.

Why is it when it rains, it pours???  (Not that I don't get the "I was sorry I had no shoes until I saw a man with no feet."  I saw a program on a quadruple amputee the other day.  Humbled me.  But I'm weak I guess.)

I'm still determined to get off all these pain meds.  I guess I just need to do it more slowly.    Any help is appreciated.!
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Avatar universal
I'm in and out today, trying to take care of everything that I got behind in since the first of the year. Yes, good one! I forgot about keeping the log, for me it was crucial. Do write down everthing you take. My mind wasn't my own for weeks and often referred to the log to see when I took and what, it's easy to mess up and once you've swallowed it's harder to get them back. You can hurt yourself as you know with to many otc's. I'm thinking when you say the "patch" that's fentanyl right? Those gave me just fit's trying to get them right and didn't use more than a week. I don't know how you'd taper off them as they come in big increments right? I think if I had a choice I'd go the other way as pills can be broken into smaller and smaller pieces, and just jump from the patches, but of course everyone's different. Thank God we're not addicts or I'd say have the boyfriend hold the meds and set a schedule and only give to you what was agreed as long as your not srcreeming in pain or just screeming. On the cookies, everybody loves cookies. If your going to do this, ya got to set some pretty small goals for yourself besides getting off the meds at this time. Baby steps. Get clean and make lots of cookies, keep some oreos, or chips ahoy handy, the kids will eat 'em up and don't dare put any guilt trip on yourself about not spoiling them till your well. This is your time and they ought to be waiting on you hand and foot! Love goes both ways or it ain't. On the dr. thing. They just don't know. My dr. said they spend about 2 hours on addiction. They Don't know. As surely as I cannot accurately describe how it was for me although I try, there just isn't words to make anyone know. So how could a dr. know who hasn't been addicted and went thru this? Hopefully you've got one who cares and is competant. If you want a more knowledgeabe dr. about addiction you'll have to see one who specializes in that field, and still I don't think unless they have suffered thru this that they know how it is either, but may have witnessed enough to know a lot. Set your other goals small and don't make them important, keep reading how it's been for other's here. This is an incredible journey. On the bum hand thing, I have a disability and am trying to get better to make it to my daughter's wedding in July. I read a saying that helps me, " I was sorry that I had no shoes till I saw a man with no feet".
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617347 tn?1331293081
hey, have a hug, mellie... you have gone through a lot, have tried your best and have tried to educate yourself as much as possible but you are also in pain so you were in a no win situation. Now you will learn something from this and you will take whatever decision afterwards.. step by step , right ? :) and if you manage to make these cookies next week  ... i wouldn't mind the frozen ones as long as you feel happy while making them  ;)
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Avatar universal
Thanks, Laurel ... now, I'm crying.  A little emotional.  I think this is the right thing to do.  I have always worried about crossing the line.  Too many family members with addictions.  (My  preference in the past was to always EAT my calories rather than drink them.  And never thought if I was a compliant patient, I'd face this.)  The doctors always told me I'd never be an addict if I did what I was told.  Why don't they tell people they'll still face withdrawal?  The untruths and half-lies are not fair.  People need the truth.  But now that I've found the truth, I can't really look the other way anymore, can I??

My goal is for the cookies by next week ... don't think I can manage to make them from scratch before then.  (I could cheat and by the frozen ones but from now on it's the real deal or nothing!)
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Avatar universal
Thanks for checking in.  I wasn't sure if I wanted off or not but the more I get withdrawal symptoms and the more I read, the more I know I'm in a place that I cannot possibly know where my real pain is.

I had a joint replacement surgery done on my thumb joint four years ago.  The implant failed ... it was a failure in everyone.  Then came the removal and 9 more surgeries to try to fix it.  Ended up also with RSD from it.  (I've had other issues with arthritis, fibromyalgia, etc. over the but always managed.)

I just can't believe when I took my first percocet, a 5 mg., it knocked me out for hours.  It never made me high.  Now with all I'm on, I'm just "normal."  But I'm not.  I want back what I was before.

Maybe when all is said and done, my quality of life won't be okay and maybe I'll have to try medication again.  But if I do, I will be in charge this time.  I won't blindly listen to doctors.  I won't take things to "stay ahead of the pain," which is what they told me before.  I was always told to take my meds on schedule, whether I felt I needed them or not, because otherwise the pain would get too ahead of me.  In hindsight, not a good idea.  Maybe immediately post-op, but not at this stage of the game.

I've almost met my goals for today!!!  Nearly done two loads of laundry, got the 4 kids off to school, talked to my dad twice about this, and made a very necessary phone call that I didn't think I had the mental capacity to handle, but did.  Now just need to muster up enough strength to get in the shower and put on some makeup.

My withdrawals at the moment are tolerable but I know there's only a small window when I feel somewhat okay ... then it gets unbearable.  I'm writing down everything I take, from the Advil to the vitamins to when I eat something so I have an accurate timetable for things.  My real memory is shot from these pills.

It's so odd where these other pains come from ... my legs were killing me.  The muscles and bone pain earlier had me in tears.  I still have about 4 30 mg. oxycodone.  My fiance said take one but I didn't ... I want to wait it out.  If I have to take a half at some point, then I have the option but I'm trying deep breaths and hoping the vitamins and advil will help.  

We'll see how things go from now until Monday.  Maybe I'll be past the worst.  I'll still have to taper off the 50 mcg. of Fentanyl but I think I can do that.  She told me she'll wean me off that very, very slowly.

I've got to the point you were at ... all these meds and very little pain relief.
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617347 tn?1331293081
Hi, mellie :) you have given here so good advices and such a great support that i wanted to tell you that we will be here for you too now. I know that you have always been worried of crossing the line between being dependent and addicted. The wds will be the same and you know all the stuff and advices to help a little that we give here. I really hope that something good will come from this for you and that you will enjoy again those things you have mentioned like the cookies on the oven :)
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Avatar universal
Good morning. I thought I'd check by and see if you were posting. I didn't realize you were planning to stop using. Kudos to ya Mellie. I wasn't suggesting for anyone to get or stay on or use methadone, it''s terrible to quit. I thought you were trying to find something to continue treating "unbearable pain", which would make M an option to patches and oxy. None of these narcotics are easy to stop after long term and high dose usage. I read your profile, is it your hand that's been operated on? I think now I remember you from before? Does ice help? If your going to taper [safely], it will hurt all the way down, but for us non addicts I'm convinced it's easier from a lower dose. I tried jumping from 140 and it was traumatic enough that I temporarily injured myself in the throws of wd's. I finally jumped around 30-35 mg's of oxy IR. Yes the narcotics do make us apothetic, mentally and physically. As I down-sized my dosage, new and strange pains everywhere. That was also part of my motivation to stop, wondering if I ended up in a hospital that I wouldn't really know if something was wrong with me or it was the dope? Gut pains, chest pains, long bone pain etc. etc, most of that has hopefully went away? I've always had gut problems, gall bladder etc. and the narcotics would either deaden the real pain or cause ghost pain, weird. I wanted as I said above to get clean to find out how I really felt, it's certainly different than how I did feel. One of the main ingredients not in the help recipes is time, not thyme, lol. It just takes time. It doesn't take as long as it did to get this way. I still have inklings of dependence that I know "just one" would make go away. I think some of my pain is disigned for narcotics. It actually worked well for back pain, but it cause's so many problems, watching the clock, tolerance, increase etc. The narcotics will absolutely convince you that your in enough pain to take another. Notice how your body can tell you that it's starting to hurt, and look at the clock it's almost time for a dose? That's those dirty drugs taking over. My tolerance level increased to my dosage level, so I was getting little pain relief, and taking quite a few to just not be sick, whew that almost sounds like an addict? Great choice to get clean and find out how you really are, I'll check back later
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