Need help and suggestions on oxycodone/fentanyl/methadone

Am posting here to see if I can get some help.  Generally I'm in the pain management forum but am getting no answers and seems like the board is absent a lot of regulars.  Have also kept up with this forum due to family members addictions.  I'm not an addict but am dependent and find myself in a terrible predicament.  I'm hoping someone here can give me some guidance.  I'm sort of desperate.  I think I have my background on my profile.  Have never abused my meds

Am presently on 60 mg. oxycodone every 4 hours (round the clock ... don't sleep due to pain.)  Also was on 75 mcg. fentanyl every 48 hours.  Just went to 50 mcg every 48 hours.  Not sure how that will work.  (I asked to decrease meds.)  I've started cutting back on my oxycodone as well.  I am definitely having withdrawal symptoms.  I had the beginning of withdrawals once and it was horrendous (due to script late in the mail.)  Due to a worker's comp insurance issue, I will be losing my coverage temporarily.  So ... what to do???  More afraid of withdrawals than the pain.  Though the pain is screaming through me at the moment.  

I'm 48, single mom of 4, with an additional stepdaughter.  Somewhat supportive fiance (in the verbal sense ... loves me to death but fairly useless with anything really other than that!)

My doctor has suggested methadone (I think because it's cheap.)  I said no initially.  Fiancee says "listen to the doctor; she knows what she's talking about.)  Truth is, I was NEVER told about dependence.  We talked about addiction and my fear of it at EVERY visit.  Not once did anyone say anything other than, "You won't get addicted.  Don't worry about it.  You read too much.  People that use pain killers for REAL pain don't get addicted."  Well, they never bothered to tell me that addicted or not, withdrawal is the same whether you're an addict or just dependent.

Right now I am so anxious I can't stand it.  (I have high anxiety anyway.)  I'm afraid of withdrawals.  I'm not physically or mentally strong.  I used to be but a really bad abusive marriage, losing my mom, and kid issues along with my failed surgeries have beaten me down badly.  

Please, someone help.  Should I do the methadone?  Even short term?  Will it cover the withdrawals from all the narcotics I'm on?  (Pharmacist thinks it's fine, but also suggested suboxone, though I don't believe that covers pain.  And from what I've read about suboxone, you have to be in the height of withdrawals to start it.  I want to avoid that.)

My hat is off to all of you have gone through this and come out the other side ... whether it's been once, twice, or a hundred times.  I am humbled by this ... never ever thought this could happen.

[Stevo977]

Kindof a tough predicament your in. Most here will discourage methadone as it's highly addictive and withdrawals are long and severe. However, it doesn't seem you have too many options. I've heard of Suboxone used to treat pain, but doubt it's usefulness other than just a replacement drug. There have been a few members in this forum who were in pain management that when detoxed found that their pain threshold was compounded by the pain medication and became managable with over the counter medication. May not work for you, so I think the person to make that decision would be you and your doctor. He knows you better than we do. I think for long-term management of pain, Methadone may work since it's long lasting and you dose less often. I'm kindof on the fence on this one though: I detoxed off 90mgs Methadone and absolutely hated it, but I never needed to be on it in the first place.

I'm sure others with more insight will respond. Hope I helped some.

[mellie4]

You did help by posting ... just wish someone (even the doctor) REALLY knew what to do.  I am afraid of methadone, mostly because of what I've read here.  Addicted, dependent ... doesn't matter.  I know my pain will initially increase when I go off the narcotics.  It's hard.  Even with them I'm usually at a 5/10 and that's a good day.  At the moment I'm at about an 8/10.  I've never had great pain control since my first surgery.  (Was foolishly convinced a joint replacement was a great idea ... but 9 surgeries later, not so much of a great idea.  Implant failed (not just in me but in everyone they put it in.)

I'm hoping to get more info on this.  I don't want to jump to the methadone JUST because I'm afraid of withdrawals.  But I am.  

As for the suboxone, what I've read about that sounds even worse than the methadone ... or at least equally as scary.

Whatever happens will happen, I guess.  Could be a sign I need to get off these with the insurance lapsing temporarily.  I've never liked being on the narcotics ... too much fear.  (Saw too much with the ex-husband.)

[Stevo977]

Suboxone is supposedly the lesser of the two evils, I've been on both, and Suboxone withdrawal wasn't as intense, but lasted quite awhile. It's hard to relate when trying to help someone who is in constant pain versus someone who just wants to get high. They say there's a difference between addiction and dependence, but I think at high level usage they are awefully similar.

That's why I asked if my posting was helpful, because honestly, I can't imagine the pain you live with. It's been said before that detoxing will sortof reset your pain threshold, and withdrawals will cause intense rebound pain which may trick you when determining how much pain control you need. I guess one question I would have is this your first attempt at drastically reducing your usage? It can be a scary and very unpredictable experience. To us seasoned addicts, it's just another day lol. Atleast thats the way it was for me. Thankfully, I don't have to go through the constant daily struggle of maintaining a very expensive habit.

Take what you will from this because like I said I really can't imagine the pain your in, but detoxing and "starting over" may help you more than you think. There are members here,and I wish they were online to tell you that what they once controlled with a high level narcotic usage is now controlled with over the counter medications. My mother-in-law just had knee replacement surgery and was prescribed tramadol and has taken very few. I know pain is very different for each of us, was just giving an example. For me, I originally took for pain, I would experience severe rebound pain in unusual places when going through withdrawal. Mostly lower back pain and horrible leg cramps which I'm sure your familiar with. Now I won't touch any pills and that includes aspirin, tylenol, etc. The act of placing a pill in my mouth triggers that memory of popping 10 norcos or oxy's or whatever. Everyone's different so you can take bits and pieces of each advice you receive and try that. Experience tells me that if you make that decision to not take another pill, you won't. You can ammend that to your pain situation where you can start by cutting by a certain percentage every so often. I can't say specific amounts and times, it's against the agreement you make when you sign in each time so that would be something you can discuss with your doctor.

Also, maybe consider taking a month or so off and check out a treatment facility. Many pain management patients go to rehab as well as addicts. The ultimate goal is the same no matter how you got there. We're in different situations but the problem is the same if you get what I'm saying. Hope this helps. I'll stay up and chat as long as you need it. I can type nonsense all night lol!

[petroglyph54]

Welcome to the forum! I'm now at day 37 oxy free except day 13 [pain]. Chronic pain sufferer as many here are. I was on methadone for a year and the manufacturer didn't want it prescribed for pain anymore [what?], yeah so my doctor switched me to oxy's. Ended up with 200mg's a day. That took about 5 years, till this last Dec. when I started tapering. My dr. like you, and I, asked all the way about addiction, assured me that at most I'd become "physically dependant", Thank God, I wasn't an addict! lol. I'm sure there are differences but hardly noticeable during withdrawals. For me if there were any thing easier about "only being physically dependent" is I don't crave the meds at all, and have never liked narcotics, although many times made me feel good. There's oodles of things to say about what you got goin here, so I'll throw in a couple of cents worth. Pain, ah yes pain, my constant companion. One worry I had about stopping was how to deal with it without the meds. I've read the forum for over a year and have a lot of respect for the people who get off and get there lives back [ not to be mis-understood as lack of respect for others still fighting], but as other's have said my pain level has gone down significantly since stopping, and again thank God! I just wanted to stop for a month or so and make sure I was treating the pain and not the addiction [dependence!]. Low and behold, the others were right. I hurt 24/7, but I'm tolerating it, with otc's. I went many days w/o sleep, all the withdrawals, all the crap that anybody else has to, and for me it wasn't pretty. But as so so many others have said it's worth it!!! You go through alot of intense feelings getting off the meds, but you find you at the other side. Who was it said [roosevelt?] we've nothing to fear but fear itself? Not sure? When I was at my 205mg a day, it was losing it's effectiveness and I knew it. If your taking the oxy 60's every six hours, those are supposed to last 12, [never did for me either] but that's what supposed to happen, the idea being that you don't have to be taking pills all the time. With the amount of  meds your taking, fentanyl and oxy, I wouldn't blink an eye over trying the methadone, just saying. It's only semantics. One of the newer approaches for long term pain management is to switch the patient every so often when their tolerance builds to a certain med, which you'll probably see happen to you. There are what's called "conversion charts" for the doctor's telling them that so much of this drug is equal to this much of that drug. You can look them up on line if your curious. I don't believe them to be accurate, and if you can understand this the charts tell the dr's or patients not to use them in reverse. You can expect a bump in your continuity of service every time you get switched, just the way it is. Some say methadone, that your tolerance won't increase, I don't know if that's true, doesn't seem that way, kinda like the comparison between addict/dependent! Also, I think methadone is cheap compared to oxy's, or the newer designer pain meds, some blended with anti-depressants. Learn all you can here, you've got to be your own best advocate, and by all means, good luck!

[Stevo977]

Glad you posted. Was hoping someone with experience would post.

Mellie just wanted to add quickly that maybe your doctor is just afraid to make a decision. It's such a crap shoot when prescribing medications anyways. Probably afraid of screwing up. Those doctors have to be on their toes these days thanks to us addicts! I always thought my alter career was an actor because I gave some oscar winning performances making up all those injuries. Every hear of anyone purposely mispronouncing hydrocodone when asking for a refill? I felt the hey I'm stupid and don't know what this stuff is trick worked best. Most likely wasn't fooling them anyways, probably wanted to just get me out of their hair. I look back at it not laughing necessarily, but mocking my total lack of sincerity and my personal addition to the reason for stricter narcotic pain laws. I think I owe you pain sufferers an apology.

[Stevo977]

My personal contribution that is. Damn long term effects of addiction always lurking. Struggle with words sometimes.

[petroglyph54]

Don't mean to walk on mellies thread, but I went to a n/a meeting the other night. Yes us pain/ physically dependents can go there for support also, there's always a chair. One of the locals called what Stevo's talking about the "dope opera", made me laugh.

[gnarly_1]

HI....I have seen you post b/4 on our forum......your on quite a cocktail of meds there....I also was treated for chronic pain and when they get to the end of the ropes with you and it sounds like they have they use methadone as a last resort ....for me I was abusing my meds trying to get them to kill the pain in my back I would take a whole days worth at the end of my work day to kill thie pain and so I could sleep also got as high as a kite doing it......when I went on the methadone there was no longer a buzz but there was great pain releaf it worked for 6yrs
then even going from 30mg to 150mg it quit working.....I will be the first to say its a great pain med but if you dance with the devel she will consume you....you will run to her every day she will become your God as you feel her work your body gets calm your pain fades away as long as you always love here and take from here what she haves to give daily you will slip under her spell and all will remain good with your lover till you want to seperate...then she turns evil....she will not let go of you she will torcher you she will litterly bring you to your knees to beg God for help to get off her even once free of her she wont let go of you she will keep you sick for months.....I can go on and on about my love affair but I think you got the idea if I had to do it again I would run the other way ...do yourself a favor slowly detox yourself get clean....see where your pain is without narcotics....many of our members incldinog myself do much better without them I wish you all the luck in the world we will support what ever you decide to do.....God Bless.......Gnarly  

[mellie4]

You guys are great!!! Thanks so very much.  I'm thinking it's probably best to try to stay away from the methadone ... those of you with the personal experience bear listening to.  My fiance thinks the doctors know best, but the truth is, without listening to them, I wouldn't be here.  We've talked about addiction/dependence until I'm blue in the face.  At this point, it is just semantics.  I don't have the mental part of it, which I guess, when I'm done with withdrawals, will make it that much easier.  But the physical part is going to be tough.

Last night, hard as it was, I told my 82-year old dad everything.  He lives with me ... or me with him :)  He's amazingly strong but has been broken since my mom died in '06.  I didn't want to burden him with this.  But I figured letting him know the truth about how I might be feeling over the next month or so was best.  I don't think he quite gets it but hopefully he'll understand if I'm not getting everything done.

Also told my 15-year old son they were changing my meds around and I may be irritable, etc.  I need to get these kids sort of on board here to help out, at least a little.

Right now I'm down from 75 mcg. Fentanyl to 50 and from 9 oxycodone to 1-2 (30 mg.)  I'm having some withdrawal.  Yesterday was bad.  Today is a bit more bearable ... queasy, in and out of the bathroom, no motivation.  A little shaky.

Talked to the doctor today and expressed my issues.  I'll be seeing her Monday morning so I have from now until then to do my research.  In the meantime, I'm trying to deal with these mild withdrawals a minute at a time.

Thanks to all of you who are helping.  Every word counts :)

[mellie4]

Going minute by minute here.  Withdrawals kicked in a bit more.  Every step is an effort ... just to talk.  I have the 50 patch on but other than that have had nothing other than vitamins (Vit C, Multi, Magnesium) and Advil since yesterday at 2 when I took a 30 mg. oxycodone.  I have about 4 left.  My fiance is telling me to take one ... wean off.  But eventually I have to face it.  I guess there's no escape on this.  

I think deep down I may have known it would come to this.  Otherwise, why did I have all those conversations with the doctor about dependence?  Just because they chose to not tell the truth, I guess I think I should escape paying the dues.  Maybe deep down I knew.  I'm educated ... both academically and lived the addictions with my ex and other family.  Mostly alcohol, but some pills.  Did I think I was smarter?  I could do what others couldn't?

I am so freaking humbled and ashamed right now.  Thinking I could do what far better than me couldn't ... I could manage the pills.  The gods of the insurance company and pharmacies are laughing now.  One more they've got.  I'm glad I don't have the mental addiction part.  Though maybe I do.  Is thinking of, "Gee, if I took 1 I could feel a whole lot better in an hour," the thought of an addict?  Or is it just someone in a bad way?

My goal for today:  two loads of laundry, a shower, REAL clothes, makeup ... look human.  One load down.  Another conversation with my dad .... maybe he gets it a bit better.  Waiting for the Advil to take the edge off.

Thinking of all of the people going through this and thinking I can do it too.  And thanks to people who've already done it and care enough to stay and help those that are going through it ... you could just go lead your life but instead you're fulfilling a huge need.

I'll probably be posting a lot ... and long.  It's how I am.  Makes me feel a little better.

[Stevo977]

Mellie, maybe the doctor's are more concerned with your quality of life than dependence. Since you don't want to be dependent, try being more vocal with your docs about what you want from them. Your paying them remember. I think you know what to expect pain wise by now so I won't reopen that wound. Just know alot of us have been in your shoes, atleast from a withdrawal perspective for me, and not the living with pain. It something I cannot fathom personally. I just hope you will make a plan, discuss it with your doctor and tell him you mean business, and stick to it. Think about that quality of life option though. I'm starting to wonder which way will benefit you more. I guess since you've been down the medication road awhile, a new approach will let you know where you stand pain-wise. Expect the rebound pain. When that eases up, you should be able to reassess the situation. Praying for you Mellie.

[mellie4]

Thanks loads.  I think maybe I will have to take something for pain but I want it to be the least amount of whatever.  I can't gauge that until I'm off, deal with the rebound pain (some of which I'm getting now ... things that never hurt, hurt :(  I can always get on something but the longer I wait and the more meds they give me, the harder it will be to get off.

I've never tried to get off before.  I closed my eyes to the escalating doses just wanting to feel no pain.  But I went from being active, involved, a great mom, to one who is directing from the bed.  I isolate.  I don't want to be at my kids' games or practices.  Don't get me wrong ... I'm involved and I know what's going on, but I just don't want to be around people.  I feel I have nothing to contribute anymore (no more job, misformed hand ...)  I was on Cymbalta for depression but took myself off it in November.  (Never knew I'd have withdrawals from that!!  But made it through that.  I need to remember that.  I had quite a few days of really deep, dark depression but it cleared.)

The narcotics make me apathetic.  My house is messy; I call out for take-out.  That's not me.  I want it back.  I want fresh-baked cookies coming out of the oven when the kids come in.  I want to laugh instead of being cranky.  I'm doing this.  At my Monday appointment, I'm going to make it really clear to her what I want for a change.

Thanks for the prayers.  I'm praying, too.  For me and everyone else.

[petroglyph54]

Good morning. I thought I'd check by and see if you were posting. I didn't realize you were planning to stop using. Kudos to ya Mellie. I wasn't suggesting for anyone to get or stay on or use methadone, it''s terrible to quit. I thought you were trying to find something to continue treating "unbearable pain", which would make M an option to patches and oxy. None of these narcotics are easy to stop after long term and high dose usage. I read your profile, is it your hand that's been operated on? I think now I remember you from before? Does ice help? If your going to taper [safely], it will hurt all the way down, but for us non addicts I'm convinced it's easier from a lower dose. I tried jumping from 140 and it was traumatic enough that I temporarily injured myself in the throws of wd's. I finally jumped around 30-35 mg's of oxy IR. Yes the narcotics do make us apothetic, mentally and physically. As I down-sized my dosage, new and strange pains everywhere. That was also part of my motivation to stop, wondering if I ended up in a hospital that I wouldn't really know if something was wrong with me or it was the dope? Gut pains, chest pains, long bone pain etc. etc, most of that has hopefully went away? I've always had gut problems, gall bladder etc. and the narcotics would either deaden the real pain or cause ghost pain, weird. I wanted as I said above to get clean to find out how I really felt, it's certainly different than how I did feel. One of the main ingredients not in the help recipes is time, not thyme, lol. It just takes time. It doesn't take as long as it did to get this way. I still have inklings of dependence that I know "just one" would make go away. I think some of my pain is disigned for narcotics. It actually worked well for back pain, but it cause's so many problems, watching the clock, tolerance, increase etc. The narcotics will absolutely convince you that your in enough pain to take another. Notice how your body can tell you that it's starting to hurt, and look at the clock it's almost time for a dose? That's those dirty drugs taking over. My tolerance level increased to my dosage level, so I was getting little pain relief, and taking quite a few to just not be sick, whew that almost sounds like an addict? Great choice to get clean and find out how you really are, I'll check back later

[laurel453]

Hi, mellie :) you have given here so good advices and such a great support that i wanted to tell you that we will be here for you too now. I know that you have always been worried of crossing the line between being dependent and addicted. The wds will be the same and you know all the stuff and advices to help a little that we give here. I really hope that something good will come from this for you and that you will enjoy again those things you have mentioned like the cookies on the oven :)

[mellie4]

Thanks for checking in.  I wasn't sure if I wanted off or not but the more I get withdrawal symptoms and the more I read, the more I know I'm in a place that I cannot possibly know where my real pain is.

I had a joint replacement surgery done on my thumb joint four years ago.  The implant failed ... it was a failure in everyone.  Then came the removal and 9 more surgeries to try to fix it.  Ended up also with RSD from it.  (I've had other issues with arthritis, fibromyalgia, etc. over the but always managed.)

I just can't believe when I took my first percocet, a 5 mg., it knocked me out for hours.  It never made me high.  Now with all I'm on, I'm just "normal."  But I'm not.  I want back what I was before.

Maybe when all is said and done, my quality of life won't be okay and maybe I'll have to try medication again.  But if I do, I will be in charge this time.  I won't blindly listen to doctors.  I won't take things to "stay ahead of the pain," which is what they told me before.  I was always told to take my meds on schedule, whether I felt I needed them or not, because otherwise the pain would get too ahead of me.  In hindsight, not a good idea.  Maybe immediately post-op, but not at this stage of the game.

I've almost met my goals for today!!!  Nearly done two loads of laundry, got the 4 kids off to school, talked to my dad twice about this, and made a very necessary phone call that I didn't think I had the mental capacity to handle, but did.  Now just need to muster up enough strength to get in the shower and put on some makeup.

My withdrawals at the moment are tolerable but I know there's only a small window when I feel somewhat okay ... then it gets unbearable.  I'm writing down everything I take, from the Advil to the vitamins to when I eat something so I have an accurate timetable for things.  My real memory is shot from these pills.

It's so odd where these other pains come from ... my legs were killing me.  The muscles and bone pain earlier had me in tears.  I still have about 4 30 mg. oxycodone.  My fiance said take one but I didn't ... I want to wait it out.  If I have to take a half at some point, then I have the option but I'm trying deep breaths and hoping the vitamins and advil will help.  

We'll see how things go from now until Monday.  Maybe I'll be past the worst.  I'll still have to taper off the 50 mcg. of Fentanyl but I think I can do that.  She told me she'll wean me off that very, very slowly.

I've got to the point you were at ... all these meds and very little pain relief.

[mellie4]

Thanks, Laurel ... now, I'm crying.  A little emotional.  I think this is the right thing to do.  I have always worried about crossing the line.  Too many family members with addictions.  (My  preference in the past was to always EAT my calories rather than drink them.  And never thought if I was a compliant patient, I'd face this.)  The doctors always told me I'd never be an addict if I did what I was told.  Why don't they tell people they'll still face withdrawal?  The untruths and half-lies are not fair.  People need the truth.  But now that I've found the truth, I can't really look the other way anymore, can I??

My goal is for the cookies by next week ... don't think I can manage to make them from scratch before then.  (I could cheat and by the frozen ones but from now on it's the real deal or nothing!)

[laurel453]

hey, have a hug, mellie... you have gone through a lot, have tried your best and have tried to educate yourself as much as possible but you are also in pain so you were in a no win situation. Now you will learn something from this and you will take whatever decision afterwards.. step by step , right ? :) and if you manage to make these cookies next week  ... i wouldn't mind the frozen ones as long as you feel happy while making them  ;)

[petroglyph54]

I'm in and out today, trying to take care of everything that I got behind in since the first of the year. Yes, good one! I forgot about keeping the log, for me it was crucial. Do write down everthing you take. My mind wasn't my own for weeks and often referred to the log to see when I took and what, it's easy to mess up and once you've swallowed it's harder to get them back. You can hurt yourself as you know with to many otc's. I'm thinking when you say the "patch" that's fentanyl right? Those gave me just fit's trying to get them right and didn't use more than a week. I don't know how you'd taper off them as they come in big increments right? I think if I had a choice I'd go the other way as pills can be broken into smaller and smaller pieces, and just jump from the patches, but of course everyone's different. Thank God we're not addicts or I'd say have the boyfriend hold the meds and set a schedule and only give to you what was agreed as long as your not srcreeming in pain or just screeming. On the cookies, everybody loves cookies. If your going to do this, ya got to set some pretty small goals for yourself besides getting off the meds at this time. Baby steps. Get clean and make lots of cookies, keep some oreos, or chips ahoy handy, the kids will eat 'em up and don't dare put any guilt trip on yourself about not spoiling them till your well. This is your time and they ought to be waiting on you hand and foot! Love goes both ways or it ain't. On the dr. thing. They just don't know. My dr. said they spend about 2 hours on addiction. They Don't know. As surely as I cannot accurately describe how it was for me although I try, there just isn't words to make anyone know. So how could a dr. know who hasn't been addicted and went thru this? Hopefully you've got one who cares and is competant. If you want a more knowledgeabe dr. about addiction you'll have to see one who specializes in that field, and still I don't think unless they have suffered thru this that they know how it is either, but may have witnessed enough to know a lot. Set your other goals small and don't make them important, keep reading how it's been for other's here. This is an incredible journey. On the bum hand thing, I have a disability and am trying to get better to make it to my daughter's wedding in July. I read a saying that helps me, " I was sorry that I had no shoes till I saw a man with no feet".

[mellie4]

I failed.  Miserably.  I woke up before 5 am screaming in withdrawals.  The stomach stuff, the sweats, every fiber screaming in pain.  I just caved in and took 30 mg. of oxycodone.  The last one.  I'm calling my doctor today and telling her I'm in withdrawal.  I think jumping down from 75 mcg. to 50 mcg. fentanyl patch and then trying to stop the oxycodone cold was too much.  

We had a very serious issue with two of our kids yesterday.  It involves legal stuff and now I just can't handle the withdrawals on top of this.  I hope my doctor is going to be good.  She has always promised me she would never let me go into withdrawals.  Well, now is the time I'll find out.  I can't do this this way.  Yesterday I really felt I could conquer things.  Today, I can't even move.

I am hoping she is going to come up with a plan for me.  They open in about an hour and I'm calling then.  In the meantime, due to these kid issues, my fiancee is going to have to move back to his dad's temporarily along with his daughter.  Hopefully this will get straightened out.

Why is it when it rains, it pours???  (Not that I don't get the "I was sorry I had no shoes until I saw a man with no feet."  I saw a program on a quadruple amputee the other day.  Humbled me.  But I'm weak I guess.)

I'm still determined to get off all these pain meds.  I guess I just need to do it more slowly.    Any help is appreciated.!

[sudie58]

you are not weak at all, your trying to get off some serious stuff, and its very difficult, dont beat yourself up, i hope you get the help you need and deserve.you will still do it ,so take care, and god bless

[mellie4]

I have two calls into the doctor.  I'm told she's in the hospital but not on the floor.  Was totally honest with the secretary and told her I'm in withdrawal bad and need some help.  Hopefully since I am not an addict and supposedly just dependent she will be open to helping me.

[laurel453]

Of course you are not weak, mellie.... and i think that you need a taper plan that you can follow so i hope that your doctor will help you truly with one. Are you taking those mineral supplements ? it might help now

[magnummom]

I took methadone for a week and was hooked, it mimics the high from oxycodone so it did not work for me. I liked it more than the oxys.  Talk to your doctor about weening down slowly and an opiate blocker, antinauseau drug and xanax which helps with the sweating and emotions.  I just went through an hour with my doctor and methadone did not come up at all.  I got it from a friend when I went through w/d last year.

[vicki595]

Hey Mellie--  It's been awhile!  I'm sorry you're suffering so much here. A couple of things:
I think you dropped too much too fast!  If you want to taper anything, it's best to do it slowly; you dropped the Fentanyl by 30% and then the oxy by a bunch!!  Anyone would feel terrible!
Calling the doctor is the best thing. You have to be comfortable!  We've had long discussions in the past about the meds and I know this has always been a big fear...I might have lowered the Fentanyl but left the oxy alone for awhile until I was adjusted. But I guess there's also an insurance issue?  How long will you be without?  Is it possible to cover the cost yourself until then?

I'd hate to see you go on Methadone or Sub for pain management. That's just me ...

I know how strong you are and how smart!  Hang on here and keep writing. Ask the doctor for an rx for the oxy and just continue on the Fentanyl taper. One thing at a time,okay?

[Ashelen]

Hey Mellie - I know you from the PM forum and I never post here but I always scan it because, like you, I have family members with addiction issues and I won't lie...I love reading people's success stories. Reading people's "30, 60, 90, etc clean" stories always gives me a smile.

I wanted to break my silent lurking and post because I can completely relate to what you're going through. When I told everyone that I had switched to a PM doctor and that he was fond of "drug holidays" I wasn't kidding...I'm on a "drug holiday" right now and I'm climbing the walls. I've done them before with little to no problem, but I don't know why right now I'm going through it all - every single withdrawal symptom in the book even though I was only taking 5mg norco 3x a day...I'm to the point of wondering if I even want to go back on pain meds when my refill comes despite my pain because I don't ever want to go through this again. I used to take a lot stronger meds....MS-Contin 3x a day along with 7.5mg lortab every 4-6 hours at my strongest, and coming off of that was hard but  I just stepped down to lortab with no MS-Contin, and carefully planned "drug holidays" over the years have led me to keeping my tolerance very low - after 5 years of pain management, I can still be knocked flat by 5mg norco.

Anyway enough of me...I just wanted to tell you I can relate. My doctor is on board with me and if I called him I could end this misery...but just the fact that i'M in this hell proves that I need to be doing it...I won't refill until the 7th or 8th, IF I decide to...I just don't know what to do. I don't crave the pills, never took them to get high, but now that I don't have them I feel like smashing down walls, or bursting into tears...I barely slept last night, like you, and like you I have children (a 2 1/2 year old and an 8-month old) so I can't just give in....

I hate this. I really do. I keep bursting into tears at nothing....hang in there Mellie we can do this together....don't push yourself too hard though, fentanyl is sooo hard to come off of from everything I've heard, so don't expect miracles.

I hope your doctor calls you back soon ....I'm on your team, and I'm going through all the same stuff - please PM me if you want to talk...I'm also weighing the same decisions as you. I haven't had a norco since saturday morning and I know I should be through the worst of it, but doing research I'm suffering emotional and physical PAWS and I want to tear my hair out....I never thought, like you, that being physically dependent would amount to the same thing as addicted when it came time to no longer take meds....all that careful self-analyzing and weighing that I did to make sure I never became an addict has come to NOTHING in the end. This drug holiday was the best and worst thing I could possibly go through.

[dominosarah]

Hi and welcome to the forum~~

Your emotions will be all over the place right now.  When the tears come let yourself cry.  I used to literally cry watching a commercial!  Your sleep pattern will be messed up too and you will feel fatigue.  This does go away.  If you can, take warm baths or showers as that will help with the aches and pains.  Dont worry about PAWS right now.  You are having wd's right now and what you are feeling is normal.  I know this is hard.  We all understand what you are going thru so keep talking with us.    sara

[Ashelen]

Thanks sara - I don't want to hijack mellie's post but i'm having a hard time. I just don't know if I should refill my script when my "holiday" (ha) is over......I keep listening to "unstoppable" by rascal flatts ( lol - i'm such a sap) and I'm just so down right now....I know I need to get this stuff out of my system and stay that way for awhile before I can even make an informed decision. I never thought I would be here, making this decision....my med level was so low and it controlled my pain so well, I never even once considered that it was going to cause a problem....that and, as you know, I've seen someone I love go through some serious issues with addiction lately (he spoke to his doctor and is on the road to recovery btw....part of why this drug holiday means so much to me).

gah I don't even know what I'm saying I'm so all over the place. I'm so glad I did this, but I'm hating life right now. and I have a big decision ahead...thank you so much for responding. I can't stand the restlessness...I exercised and that helped but I want to crawl out of my skin. and I can't stop crying!

[dominosarah]

I dont think mellie will care......Eat bananas as they are good in potassium and helps with RLS.  If you like Gatorade drink that.  Fluids is very important.  Caffeine will make you jittery so watch out for that.  The more you move around the better you will feel.  Crying is a big part of this so just cry away~~~

[mellie4]

I don't care, Ashelen :) Glad you posted but sorry you're dealing with this.  Especially with having a new baby.  DON"T know how you can do that!  I have 5 (one in college).  My youngest is 11 ... it's still hard, but at least I can sort of direct from the bed.

I'm feeling MUCH better.  The doctor called me back and I was brutally honest.  I want off this stuff but I'm going to do it with a taper.  I took a 30 mg. oxycodone, and she told me to cut back to four a day from now until I see her on Monday and then we'll figure out a really good taper.  

Ashelen, I wish I knew what to say.  I'm as bewildered by this as anyone.  Deep down I know I'm still not addicted mentally.  I've never taken more than I'm supposed to, usually less. But still the end result is the same.  I am hoping I can taper this down, both the Fentanyl and the oxycodone, until I'm at nothing.  Then I can reevaluate my true pain and go from there.  If I end back up on narcotics, which is likely, it will be kept to a minimum.  Not this regular every 4 hours stuff.  The level they had me at was way too high.  I wasn't enjoying my life on it anymore.  In the beginning it helped me function, and at the end, I lost all motivation.

Vicki, you know this is something I've been on the fence about since I started the whole pain management program.  I've wrestled with it every day.  I only wish I had listened to my gut initially.

Thanks to all who respond.  Every word helps.  I'm sure I'll keep posting.  I'm seeing this through to the end.  I'm not giving in, just taking it slower for my family.

[worried878]

I am thinking u r not elderly, as you mentioned kids.  The bad thing bout narcotics for chronic pain is tolerence.  I am a chronic painer for 25 yrs.  I must admit tho, if my dr had prescribed me the amount of meds you are on, i would have nvr taken more than prescribed, in fact, i woulda had trouble taken all of that in a day, but we are all different

Methadone is a good pain reliever...wds should be no worse than fentanyl wd, but again we r all different.  Fentanyl is said to be the strongest narcotic prescribed for pain tho, and if it is not working, I am not sure why ur dr is suggesting methadone?  But sometimes one thing works for one and sumpin else for another.
Thing is, at the doses u r on of narcs, it is scary to think what they will be 10 yrs from now.  Out of curiousity, hoiw long have you been on the narcs and what was your starting dose?  
My dr gave me like 30 10 mg hydros a month, and yes, I abused.  In 5 yrs I only  made it to 100 mgs, when i started at 5 mgs a day.  I guess I didnt do too bad in the scheme of things and it coulda been worse.  I do not like being controlled tho, and the pills controlled me.  My family told me I was a free spirit the other day,which hit me kinda funny, but I know my spirit did not like control by hydro...it broke my spirit.

Chronic pain and narcotics are tough..decisions are tough..and if u r an addict like me...it is even tougher.  I remain in pain on a daily basis, discs are missing, plates in my spine and will not get another....but the pain of addiction was worse for me.  It doesnt sound like u feel u r an addict....maybe u never will be...i hope not

good luck to u

[Ashelen]

I'm so glad you've got a plan and I really hope it helps you...I'm so close to breaking down and calling my doctor but I really just need to stay "clean" for a little while and do some evaluating of my life, I'm really trying to see this through to the end like you.....I don't want to get my refill before the 7th. That's the day I've determined if I'm going to take meds again I'm going to refill it to give my body time to get "normal" again...that will be about 2wks from when I stopped taking the last script. I called my dad and he's going to let me come over and take a bath at their house tomorrow (we only have a shower at our current place, which we rent, but we're buying a house which will have a bath-tub, yay).

as I was writing this I had to pause because my dad came over to give me a hug and some encouragement....he really is my best friend outside of my husband and I know that I'm lucky he was willing to turn around and drive an extra 30 minutes just to cheer me up.

I'm so determined to do this. the 7th. that's 6 days not including the day of the refill and today. I'm going to do this because I want to get control of my pain management. I wish I didn't hate life so much right now. I've decided that if I DO decide to refill that I'm going to give my script to my husband and only take something if I'm in a lot of agony and stop anticipating the pain and stop fearing what "might" hurt....

it just doesn't seem fair. I took as directed, never got high, never had any sort of craving outside of wanting the pain to stop and here I am...suffering through it. hydrocodone (and the other narcotics) are really quite evil. I can't imagine the battle those of you who are mentally/emotionally addicted go through....I have a whole new respect for the strength you all have and I promise that when I'm strong enough to hold my OWN shoulders up I will be a shoulder for anyone who needs to cry or lean on that is going through their battle. I may only understand the physical part of it and not be able to lend too much support but I have so much respect right now....I feel like a wuss since I'm only combating one aspect of this.

Mellie - I'm going to send you a message.

[petroglyph54]

Wow, what a shocker eh? Now those are the wd's I'm talking about! Kinda get's your attention when it hurts down to the cellular level. I don't usually do this, but I looked up fentanyl conversion to oxy. I'm not a professional or trained, " this is my disclaimer". It looked loosely like 75mg's of fentanyl is "roughly" equivalent to between 112.5 and 157 mg's of oxy. DO NOT take my word for it! As I mentioned before these tables cannot be used in reverse, and I of course don't know what oxy or anything else is going on with you. So, lets just guess it's about 2 to 1, ok? If you went down from a 75 to a 50, that's sorta kinda like taking 50 mg's of oxy out of your daily dose. Also, let me say I'm not suggesting anything as far as dosing or any kind of taper schedule! You reduced the equivalent of 50mg's more or less of oxy a day and then tried ct'ing off your oxy as well. There are many people trying to quit a habit smaller than just the eq, 50mg oxy! It's a lot and especially with pain issues. That's part of why I mentioned above about the patches, when you titrate down the  jumps are big. Also, taking two kinds of meds, minimum, you have a cross addiction going on. Every move up or down or sideways on these very powerful meds you are going to feel it, and again there's the pain issues. Like Gnarly above said your on quite a "cocktail". For me I'd want to get everything over to just one type of med. I believe oxy and norcos and percocets all have the same active ingredient, again don't take my word for it. The difference's are minimal except strength and whether their IR, or ER extended relief. I think it's hydromorphone? Another mention here is you woke up, miserable, it's at those times for me I'd have broken the 30's into smaller bits and tried to see if 15 +/-, would do the trick, they work pretty fast and you can take more. Working it like that is easier than messing with a patch. My understanding is you only have the oxy 30's? Those are IR, correct? Those are for breakthrough pain? What you want is difficult but obtainable, many here have. Luckily we're not addicts so we can taper, but like I said it hurts all the way down, but in smaller pieces. I could see if I was just using then ct, might have been better, It's a bit different dealing with the pain thing. But, for me like others the pain level will reset, it will and so will the tolerance level. I too may have to take narcotics again for pain management but I will fight it with everything to not take anything narcotic and am fighting the discomfort as I type, but my heads clear and I'm me, and I want that. Little steps ok? Chill, it's just part of it, It will be ok, this too shall pass.

[dominosarah]

You are stronger than you realize~~You dont have to abuse your meds like many of us did to feel the way you do now.  Stay as positive as you can during this as that helps too.  You can do this!!         sara

[Ashelen]

thanks Sara you're an awesome cheerleader...still hanging in there. headache from HECK right now. exhausted...I really hope I sleep tonight. trying to grab sleep between being woken by 2 young ones and battling RLS is killing me....really really considering not getting my refill or handing it to my DH so I can only take them if I desperately need one and not have to take them 24/7....I wonder if that will work? i never take them when I don't need them, I was just prescribed them to take "around the clock to stay ahead of the pain"...oh well that's a thing to consider tomorrow my brain hurts too much...not as weepy though!

[laurel453]

welcome here too, ashelen.. :) are you taking anything to help you with the RLS ? they are homeopathic remedies and some mineral supplements that really help . I would not make any decisions until you are well after the first week. In the middle of wds, we are not in the best frame of mind to make a  decision.... There is also the rebound pain from what i have read and after some days, pain might become more bearable... Ok, just wanted to show to both of you my support now.  

[rcrumpton9]

TO ALL OF YOU ---THANKS THANKS THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION, THE COMPASSION,ETC!!!  i AM READING FORUMS ALL OVER THE nET AND MOST WILL NOT LET ME POST WHAT i FEEL?

THere are still good caring folks in this world mostly?  If not laurel453 post it for them all. I just can't say it enough ---information is power but most of you care that most of us are getting high---IT FREAKING HURTS!!!   God your God bless you alll for this you created for me to read.
***@****  I have never doe that before and it i stupid and may close that email down but I just want to show you all I am real and I thank you immensely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!