Need help kickin' it

[Runnin' Out]

Hey, I'm a brand new forum member with a long time hydro habit.
I've  made my way up to 10-7.5's per day (with an alcohol kick on the evening dose of 5 pills.  For me, it doesn't matter that the origin of my habit was all legal and purposeful.  Today. I start Jonesin' by 1pm and have to take my first 5 pills of the day so I can function.  I start gettin' jumpy around 8p for the second 5 and follow with a couple hard lemon-aids to give it a kick.  I've gotten my pills through various means that I'm not proud of.  I've lied to my wife, children and friends in order to keep this facade going.  I'm a medical professional that should (that does) know better yet I realize I've been beaten by this.  I want to stop but I've already gone through the hell days 2 years ago when my usage was almost double what it is now. Last time there wasn't 1 wink of sleep for 5 straight days.  I wanted to die but didn't have the energy to do it. I'm lookin' for straight talk from any addict who has beat the beast down.  I know I should expect pain but I can't do what I did before.  I lost a relationship and was out of work for weeks.  I missed my daughter's birthday because I was in acute withdrawal.  I've done things that if discovered could ruin my life at any moment. I want and need to stop.  I've heard of "the recipe" and other remedies to lessen the nightmare's effects but I've only gotton pieces of it.   I heard about GHB from an article written by a mother of a heroine addict. How to taper?   I just don't know where to begin to end it. Help if you can relate.  Thanks     Runnin' Out

[OxyDout]

welcome to the forum.  Take a step back, your taking 10 vicodin a day, its really not that bad, I mean, yes, your addicted and thats awful but it could be much worse, so do me a favor and take a deep breathe, and repeat this "i'm not a bad person" say it a few times, sorry Im big on comic relief, but seriously, I have this image of you all stressed out and thinking the world is going to end.... is that true?? Anyway, there is a way through this, its doable and you can do it.  first off, tapering never works, it prolongs the inevitable.  Now, I used methadone, but don't recommend it........... So, if I were you I would first try tapering, move down to 7 a day, do that for a week or so and go from there.  If you find that you just can't taper because you eat all the pills, well don't feel bad because it happens to all of us.  The next step is cold turkey which won't be that bad, it really won't, the key is to start the recipe a week before your last pill and stick to it.  Take a multi-vitamin and L-tyrosine, I found those to be the best for anxiety and depression, well actually 5htp will help the anxiety.  I'm sure everyone else will post and help you out, but for now, try not to think too much, good luck!

GWH

[1fortheroad]

hi - since you are in the medical profession, you have probably heard of buprenex.  that is what i used, and it worked.  there are probably tons of resources available to you...you are not the only one in your profession to become an addict - it is very prevalent.

[alexandra_r]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.  Here, you will find a lot of support and a lot of people that have gone through or are going through the same thing as you.  

If you have the willpower or a trusted friend or family member to work with you, tapering is the most painful route to go.  I completed a taper (and have been off all meds) about 3 weeks ago.  I started the taper on July 1.   I was already down to 6 pills per day when I started my taper, but I lowered my dose by 1 pill per day and then stayed at that dose for about 3 - 4 days, but allowed myself to remain on a dose for up to 5 if I felt I needed it.  I just stretched the time out between pills to be longer.  For you, since you take all your pills at once (and that is really hell on your liver!), you might take 4 1/2 or 4 at a time to start off.   I would see if you can't stretch the pills over more time, though.  

When I got down to 4 pills per day, I started breaking pills in 1/2 and lowering more gradually.  I usually did 1 in the a.m., then 4 hours later 1/2, 4 hours later, 1/2, etc., until the p.m. , when I took a whole one.  I tapered until I was down to 1 pills per day 1/2 in a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m.  I don't know if this really helped the w/d physically  so much at this point, but I know that it made it easier for me psychologically.  
After I was on 1 pill per day for about 5 days, I stopped.  I felt very mild w/d's, mostly just a little achy and the runs and restless leg at night, but it was NOTHING like the w/d
s I have experienced going cold turkey.  

I also recommend the recipe, although I don't take as much l-tyrosine and never did because it seemed like it made me a little jittery.

Good luck and keep posting! It really helped me a lot and still does.

[alexandra_r]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.  Here, you will find a lot of support and a lot of people that have gone through or are going through the same thing as you.  

If you have the willpower or a trusted friend or family member to work with you, tapering is the most painful route to go.  I completed a taper (and have been off all meds) about 3 weeks ago.  I started the taper on July 1.   I was already down to 6 pills per day when I started my taper, but I lowered my dose by 1 pill per day and then stayed at that dose for about 3 - 4 days, but allowed myself to remain on a dose for up to 5 if I felt I needed it.  I just stretched the time out between pills to be longer.  For you, since you take all your pills at once (and that is really hell on your liver!), you might take 4 1/2 or 4 at a time to start off.   I would see if you can't stretch the pills over more time, though.  

When I got down to 4 pills per day, I started breaking pills in 1/2 and lowering more gradually.  I usually did 1 in the a.m., then 4 hours later 1/2, 4 hours later, 1/2, etc., until the p.m. , when I took a whole one.  I tapered until I was down to 1 pills per day 1/2 in a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m.  I don't know if this really helped the w/d physically  so much at this point, but I know that it made it easier for me psychologically.  
After I was on 1 pill per day for about 5 days, I stopped.  I felt very mild w/d's, mostly just a little achy and the runs and restless leg at night, but it was NOTHING like the w/d
s I have experienced going cold turkey.  

I also recommend the recipe, although I don't take as much l-tyrosine and never did because it seemed like it made me a little jittery.

Good luck and keep posting! It really helped me a lot and still does.

[alexandra_r]

oops!  sorry I posted twice-computer messed up.  Also, I meant to say that tapering is the most PAINLESS!!!! way to go.

[Runnin' Out]

Thanks for the quick response. I've read the board a few days now and the support is amazing.  I appreciate your comments and reccomendations.  The anxiety level is high due to the fear of the consequences I would suffer if this were found out.  The end of the world? No.  The end of my career-probably.  Family support would be available but I'm not there yet. What I learned from NA - keep comin' back.  Thanks again

[Runnin' Out]

Thanks much for the helpful words.  You're very kind to go into such detail with your tapering story.  I think that might work best for me.  I know myself and couldn't function if I went CT.
What does the Tyrosine do for you?

[Runnin' Out]

Thanks for your comment.  I was given buprenex for the first 3 days of my last (which was my first) withdrawal a couple years ago.  It worked great for those days but they only gave me 3 injections and some kind of sublingual meds.  Once that was over I started the real withdrawal.  Does it come differently now?.  I assume your doc needs to prescribe it.

[1fortheroad]

yes, it is prescribed...you need it longer than 3 days.  i still take it for migraines - it is a great pain med.

[ChiTownGirl]

Tapering and w/d meds are the best route to go, cold turkey isnt recommended by me because ive done it in the past and have had horrible symptoms because of it.

Having a trusted family member hang onto your pills is another option, Ive had my husband hang onto my pills and hand them out only at the prescribed time during my tapering and it really helps!  believe me, i dont think i could of done it without the support of a trusted person!

hang in there, you can do it!

[SmokethisVette]

Hey you....
     Glad to see you are back and better than ever...LOL!! I was worried 'bout you for a while there...didn't see any posts for like a week or something!! I was meaning to ask you if you do indeed live in Chicago? Silly question I know...being your name is, well,, Chitown!! LOL...I ask this 'cause guess what? I live in Chicago...actually a suburb right outside of it!! I live about 20 miles diresctly west of downtown...let me know for I am dying to find out!! Hope all is well with you girl...miss ya!!!
Laters, Christine

[ChiTownGirl]

Yes I do live in Chicago, I live in Lincoln Park!  What a hoot - I can't believe you live here too.   I am so excited that you live here too, we can help keep each other sober.  Isn't this forum great, Ive been trying to help some of the newcomers who have recently found this forum by giving them words of encouragement.   I am OK, still taking pills though.  I was only able to stay clean for 3 days then fell right back into using tylenol 3's for a toothache.   I feel ashamed of myself for giving into the temptation.   However, my using isnt quite as bad as it used to be, I used to take vic's whenever and wherever I could get them, but lately with all the problems at the pharmacies, walgreens and osco will no longer fill any type of narcotic for me, its been hard to get ANYTHING.  But some of my earlier posts indicate that maybe its a sign to completely quit once and for all, especially with the pharmacies refusal to give me any meds.  glad to see you too ChrissyGalpal, email me at ***@**** if you ever want or need to talk privately with me, i am here to help anyone that needs a good listener and a friend.   ChiTownGirl.

[SmokethisVette]

Hey guess what? You have MAIL...lol

[ralphie]

dude im new here too, i will also tell you taper down but if you cant and your out just sit back and deal with it it sucks beleive me ,but its not that bad,i quit and detoxed off heroine, and then was clean for  4years and started on vicodins and i also kiked them cold turkey   it is doable i was ok after the first 3 or 4 days then i relapsed and was taking 20 7.5s a day and went on the methadone   dont go on the methadone im detoxing off of it now and  there is no comparison ,i see kids in the line at the clinicfor vicodin abuse and other pills and after what ive been going through ill tell you its not worth it   you might think its an easy way out but its another ball game for 1 they let you an addict choose how much you want the 1st day 35 mgs  and then they ask daily are you o.k do you feel stable   well i was not only stable at 35 i was down right high as hell all day  so i kept going up  to 100 mgs   after a year and a half i walked of at 18 mgs ..its been 2 weeks and i feel like im dying   kik the vics and please man dont even think about methadone treatment  peace

[Lucy and Ricky]

I have been thinking of taking buprenex and I know you have taken it too. How long were you on it for withdrawls? What were some of the side effects? Also, does it come in a pill form? Any info you have will be very much appreciated.

[willowman11]

Hi I am new to the site but recently went through what you are talking about. I was taking more than you but I was using for many years. I did not taper but instead used Ultracet for about 7 days and the withdrawls were minimal for me. I am now on a Duragesic patch and doing well. I have not taken any of my Vic's for breakthrough pain yet. Maybe I am just lucky that this way worked. I do not miss all the pills....... ***@****

[flatlander]

Hi y'all { you can tell right off I'm not from Chicago }.  I'm a RN from Texas.  I've been doing 200 mg of Oxy a day for about 6 years.  And, overall, handling it ok. {BS} Every month I'd run out anywhere from 5 to 10 days early, and then start the going to various docs for my "back pain". I'd then start using Lortab to the tune of 200mg a day.  Hated the thought of the Tylenol.
Even went to Mexico one time, but could only cop Ty3's, so didn't do that again.  This all started, like most of y'all, with a pain situation.  Mine was cluster headaches, which turned chronic in '96.  But, even prior to that, I would justify some sort of abuse.  I was in Viet Nam in '68-69, and got hook on opium there.  I left that in country when I started back home on a boat, nice trip, but immediately got hook on H & Ms back here.  Ended up in Lexington, Ky. at the "Federal Narcotics Farm", which was the nations first drug rehab, to kick that time.  Continued on in my drug use with pot, coke, alcohol, LSD, crank, pills, anything to get high.  Never got busted though, so I never had any kind of record.  Met the Lord in '84 and was immediately delivered from my using.  Unbelievable.  No WD's, no urge to get high anymore. At that time, I was doing about a oz of coke a week and a case of beer a day.  Anyway, enough history.  Last Thursday I called my doc and told him I was sick of this ****, and wanted to get off the oxy.  Got him to drop me down to 80mg a day, 40 in the am and then pm.  started Friday.  Man, this weekend lasted about a month.  Heavy WD's, go to bed at 10, wake up at 2, up for the rest of the day then.  No work. No way.  I was bound and determined on Monday I was going to kick it up another 40mg, justifying it by saying I needed the sleep so I could work. My sweet bride is holding the dope, so I won't cheat.  Anyway, Monday night after I couldn't get in to see my doc, I slept til 4:20 !!!!  I can handle that.  Went to work, did ok til about 3, and then last night slept til 3:30, which I can still deal with. I'm not going to move up, but am going to stablize at 80, then in another week or so, drop another 20mg.  Maybe split up the dosage over three as opposed to two.  Anyway, we got the "recipe" yesterday, however, I've had three MI's {heart attacks}, have two stints, and am somewhat concerned about slamming my body with so much "healthly" stuff all at once.  It's just not use to that.  Anyway, I'll go ahead and post, and good luck y'all.

[Gianna m]

I was in the same boat as you. In the mental health field--didn't want anyone to know-afraid of losing my job..etc...Well, guess what? I ended up taking meds from work-got arressted-and then everybody knew for sure!! Of course I llost my job-not to mention the humiliation. Lucky for me the police officers were very nice and informed me that had I told my boss before I stole pills that I had a problem with opiates-they would have to get help for me and could not fire me because it is against the law (at least in New Jersey). It's called the Employee Assistance Program. I was the LAST person who would have ever thought about going inpatient for treatment, but after going to a methadone clinic for 1 1/2 years and still taking pills, I was pulled over by a police officer at 7:20 am (coming home from the clinic) and he thought I was drunk. The meth and fioricet combo made me slur and fail the tests (I had no idea I was messed up). They gave me a urine when the breathalyzer came up 000. My urine showed oxycotin, methadone, darvocet and barbituates from the fioricet. I got a DUI and the handcuffed me when they took me into the station. After I straightened up all I could think about was my 7 yr old daughter and how she could have been in the car that morning. I THOUGHT I WAS OK TO DRIVE! My parents and husband did the intervention and they had found a place in Fla. that would accept me on 80mgs of methadone. Very hard to find any place that would take someone on methadone let alone more than 20mgs. I was there for approx 3 weeks and it turned out to be the best experience. HONESTLY! They kept me physically comfortable using 40mgs of meth (20 in am and 20 in pm) dropping me 5mgs a day. I had my doubts that this amount would even hold me-but I was able to get up and shower daily and make all the classes. I felt good. I learned so much about myself and my addiction. All the people who worked there were recovering addicts. Thet flew me down to Fla. picked me up in a limo and drove me to the rehab. I guess I'm trying to say, if there is anyway possible (and there usually is) you can go inpatient, it may save you years of pain that lies ahead and even your life! As far as other people finding out-most already probably know. Remember, it's the secret everybody knows but us. We think we hide it so well but I found out even my straight friends knew and were so happy I got the help I needed. Just think about it.

[1fortheroad]

hi - yes, i'm still taking it - strictly for pain management of migraines at this point.  it doesn't get you high like other opiates.  i started out taking about six amps per day, and i slowly, slowly tapered down to where i am now.  i used to feel guilty that i haven't completely stopped, and now and again the guilt creeps up on me still.  however, my pain is legit and the bup really helps, so i'm going to continue on as i am for now.

it also comes in sublingual tabs, but as far as i know, they aren't fda approved in the u.s. yet.  the clinic in fl that i went to prescribes them - that is the only place i know of that will.  they are MUCH stronger than the ones people buy from online, overseas pharmacies.  i prefer the injects, because i started with them, they work for me, and i feel they are stronger than the tabs.

i have been on it since april, but i had tried it at various times in the past.  i was at a hospital, inpatient to detox at xmas time, and they had me on it for 4 days.  that is NOT enough time.  the side effects are the same as with any other opiate.  i have been on this maintenance program since april.  it took me until about two months ago to get down to where i am now.

do some research on it - there is tons of info online...that's where i learned about it.  you could talk with your dr. about it, and explain why you want to use it.  if he's willing to do it, he can legally prescribe it for pain.  pharmacies usually have to order it from their distributer...it's an uncommon drug, and they don't usually keep in on their shelves.

i hope i've given you the info you need, and as i said, go poke around online and read everything you can about it.  good luck.

[Phillygal]

Welcome! At this site, you will find people from every realm of the world here with the same problem in one form or another. Addiction.  You will find, help, compassion, humor, support and wisdom.  I am a firm believer, like GWH, in humor!  

The first step is realizing that you have a problem.  The rest, with the help of friends, family and loved ones, will come in time.  I have been on Vics for about 10 yrs and recently quit cold turkey.  As the statistics will prove, there is a high liklihood for relapse and unfortunately, I went only 1 week without.  I myself, am a professional, in the medical field.  On a daily basis, I will come into contact with numerous lives that need saving, mending/healing and I am the one who helps with this, yet, for the life of me, I am having a hard time, mending my own life.

I feel like a failure for relapsing and am glad that no one can see my face as I am ashamed.  But, I have a strong sense that no matter what, there will still be support for me.  My goal is to taper...and to do it in a sensible way, unlike cutting cold turkey the day after surgery.  I can do it, I know I can, and so can you.  Stick with us, trust yourself, and most importantly, understand that we are not perfect, never will be and those who love us even with our imperfections, are the people and the means to get us through the worst of times.

PGal

[Runnin' Out]

I appreciate your words of wisdom.  The site makes me feel part of a group and that I'm not alone.  I will consider inpatient but don't think my insurance will go for it for hydrocodone.  I remember the other time I could only get out patient.  That worked for a short while then I found a friend's long abandoned demerol to use as a catalyst.  Has anyone heard of the lack of dopamine in the brain as causing the use and abuse of opiates?  When I looked up hydrocodone, it discusses how it assists in the release of dopamine from the brain causing a euphoria.  I'm just trying to figure out why I (and other people) have to have them and others don't.
I've began tapering.  I've heard pros and cons on this from the forum.  I plan and pray that I'll stick with the plan.  If not it's cold turkey and the party that follows.  My taper schedule is done.  I should be off by 10/14.  Has any body been successful with tapering or is it just a "pipe" dream?

[Rexxor]

HI ALL!
Did I see someone from Philly here? (Lemme know if you're still here!)

I need HEELLPP!
I've been taking various narcotric pain killers for years, Percocet, vicodin, etc-went cold turkey from them (for a while) and then "tried" Heroin. To make a long story short, I've now been snorting Heroin for about 2 years and I MUST stop! More for the money than anything else. Yeah, I know all the other reasons but I own my own business and it will be gone very soon if I dont stop. I CAN NOT go in-patient. I MUST find some way to stop this. Whats Buprenex? Anyone know anything about Ultram? I think something like a patch (duragesic maybe), would help me. How do I find a doc. to prescribe this for me?
Can anyone help?
*(And by the way...Now that I've taken the pills<Vicodin/Percocet, etc> and currently the Heroin. For anyone that's wondering...There is NO difference! It's the exact same stuff in a different form! just no Rx needed!)
If anyone can help me, in any way, I sure would appreciate it.
Thanks-much.

[flatlander]

Slept til 5 this morning !!!!  OK, I think I'm coming around!!! Yesterday was worse than usual, though, I even started thinking my wife might have contacted my doc and picked up some 20's, and gave me one of those instead of my 40.  Man, my junkie brain is something.  DO NOT believe anything your brain tells you, it's lying.  In those lucid moments, when you know you're thinking right, that's the time to listen.  I hope everyone has a good day, I've got to drive over half of Texas, then be back in time to pick up my script and get it filled.  One more week on 80 a day, then I'm dropping to 60.

[Phillygal]

Yes, a Philly Gal!

Welcome to the board!  This addiction **** sucks, but I think you will find some great people and some terrific advice/insight and wisdom here.

As for the Durgesic patches.  I have tried them when I went off of the Vics.  The patch takes the edge off and the w/d seem non-existent.....until the patch comes off, then you are hit like a mac truck!  The patch still puts the drug into your system and you get no high off of it, so you think "Ok, Im doing good, I have taken no pills and I feel not too bad".  BUT, your body is not coming off of the drugs as it is still being 'fed', only thru a different route. When I took the patch off, I had w/d like a bad nightmare.

Needless to say, I relpased (Vics) and and I am now trying to taper (God, this is so hard!).


I am 33 yrs old and am a professional in the medical business.  My job takes me all over the world and I wonder at times, how could I let this happen to me?  Thank god I am still able to function...except when I go thru w/d....

Write if you need to chat and hang in there!  We are not alone!

PGal

[memikey]

Tapering sucks and takes a lot of will power.  And being a long-time and multiple-time Vicodin user/quitter, I must say I have never heard of anyone taking that much hydrocodone in one dose before (I mean, 5-7.5mg pills is 37.5mg total, and that's like a whole day's supply for most addicts).  Anyway, the most painless self-quit withdrawl I ever did was by temporarily "cross-addicting" to another lesser drug (Darvon), but at the "normally prescribed" dosages for Darvon, not what I was used to taking on the Vicodin, and not what "feels good", it's only to help take away some of the body aches.  But somebody who takes as much as you do in one dose would probably die if you tried that with Darvon, because the toxicity levels are totally different.

Anyway, I hate to say it, but somebody on that much of a "therabusive" dose would need to be treated strickly on an inpatient basis.  They'd just have to pump you full of Valium or something and gradually reduce the dose over a week or so.  It won't be easy, because you can't talk a rehab nurse out of an aspirin, but fortunately Vicodin withdrawl is one of the shorter ones, and once you are finally off it physically, you are so happy to be non-dependant that you wind up not even wanting to go back for quite some time.

You might also consider coming clean with family and friends, because if you don't, you'll have to find an excuse/lie to get out of town for a week or so while you detox, and that will only make it worse for you, living another lie.  And there's also the off chance you could die detoxing (it does happen), so your loved ones would have to be hit in the face with that pie, should the worse happen.

Good luck.