Aa
Need help to save the love of my life!
Long story short, my bf is addicted to Heroine. Looking for advice on how to get clean at home. We are not in a position for him to go to rehab. He has tried 3 times in the last year and half since he started and has failed. This last time, I knew from the start he wasn't prepared or mentally ready and he clearly didn't do his homework because I did ( after the fact) and let's just say he's lucky to still be alive. So now he's back to using, it's been about 2 weeks and I know he feels terrible about it and has yet to come clean to me about it, but it's obvious. So, I need advice, what eases withdrawls? Whats better to use in the beginning suboxone or methadone? How long are the STRONG withdrawls? How do I make him comfortable? How many days are the hardest? PLEASE HELP ME SAVE HIM! In the past, he has said I didn't do anything to help him and that I wasn't there and he was left going out of his mind alone. That kills me because he didn't give me a chance to be there he just up and tried when I couldn't get out of work so this time I want to plan, I want to take some time off work so that I can be there and he don't have to be alone.
It took me 3 treatment centers and 4 jail stints. Nothing like detoxing in jail to make you never want to touch the stuff again. But I still did. I was court ordered to treatment and that is where the miracle began. I lied, cheated, stole, berated people, and blamed everyone but myself. Just like I am sure he is doing. It only gets worse each time he detoxes. I pray that this talk works and he agrees. Please be careful honey. Let us know what happens.
Thank you and I will look it up. You guys are right but let me just say, the getaway was only for a hot tub, and his teenage daughter lives with us and we did just go through "the flu" per say a few weeks ago. She's not stupid either she suspects something is up. And i was not planning on springing it on him either because I know it has to be his choice I just didn't want to give him to much time to think or chicken out. And he knows, he's very close to losing me over this so I don't want to give him the time to change "my" mind. So like I said in the beginning, I need to see when I can get a week off and get everything together because if he ain't ready I know I have to be prepared to leave immediately for my own sanity.
Hey there and welcome. Nursegirl wrote this:
"You're busy planning, researching, requesting off work, and even almost trying to plan a surprise get away for him to detox, and meanwhile, he hasn't even asked for help yet (and yes, I understand why).
Sweetie, I KNOW you want him to get well, but you are doing everything...and I do mean everything. That's just NOT going to work."
Words cannot even express how much I agree w/ this. Reading what you wrote about this, the energy, time, and research you are doing for SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM...you could be president of the U.S. Point is, your bf isn't even on here himself asking for help. You are. Not a promising start.
Please please please, go to alanon. You need it. This is wearing you out emotionally to such an extent, you may not even be aware. We addicts get clean when WE have had enough, not our loved ones.
Btw, bad consequences are the blocks that build up to make up sick and tired of the using life. Having people be there for us no matter what can still feel like a "safety net." It can be a very positive step for YOU to detach from his life/addiction. He will start to see that things are falling apart, and that could help him get closer to wanting to get clean. In other words, being there 100% can be a detriment to getting clean. Same as giving him money (which I truly hope you are not doing.)
Look up an alanon meeting and go. You will have a different, saner perspective on this. And will feel much calmer. I promise that. Good luck:)
"You're busy planning, researching, requesting off work, and even almost trying to plan a surprise get away for him to detox, and meanwhile, he hasn't even asked for help yet (and yes, I understand why).
Sweetie, I KNOW you want him to get well, but you are doing everything...and I do mean everything. That's just NOT going to work."
Words cannot even express how much I agree w/ this. Reading what you wrote about this, the energy, time, and research you are doing for SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM...you could be president of the U.S. Point is, your bf isn't even on here himself asking for help. You are. Not a promising start.
Please please please, go to alanon. You need it. This is wearing you out emotionally to such an extent, you may not even be aware. We addicts get clean when WE have had enough, not our loved ones.
Btw, bad consequences are the blocks that build up to make up sick and tired of the using life. Having people be there for us no matter what can still feel like a "safety net." It can be a very positive step for YOU to detach from his life/addiction. He will start to see that things are falling apart, and that could help him get closer to wanting to get clean. In other words, being there 100% can be a detriment to getting clean. Same as giving him money (which I truly hope you are not doing.)
Look up an alanon meeting and go. You will have a different, saner perspective on this. And will feel much calmer. I promise that. Good luck:)
I 100% concur w IBKLEEN! My heart aches for you. The only thing I have to add is if you take him on a " surprise " getaway, there's a very high chance that he may get angry once your there and he realizes that you have been planning the entire thing. Sadly, that's just the addict part. I too think you need to have this talk sooner rather than later. Do it now while you are fresh with the encouragement you already have here. I personally feel that you need to completely disregard the idea of the SUB..not even 1 bc I promise you that 1 will lead to 100. You never ever know, there may not be a tommorw.
Please keep us posted!
Xoxo
Please keep us posted!
Xoxo
Thank you again. I think home is good too. I'm still very up in the air about the timing of the "talk". Right now, our relationship has really taken a beating because of this. I've come straight out a few times and asked him if he was using and again of course i got the usual angry denial just like the last 2 times he tried quiting. I know, he knows I know, he just isn't ready to admit it to me yet. His biggest excuse has always been, when I can afford to take a week off work. That's a part of my planing too, I got a little cash set aside to compensate for his week off. I know ultimately the decision has to be his, I just don't want to scare him or cause more problems for us. So do I just go home and do the talk now even if it's weeks before I can get off work or go with my plan I said earlier?
For you, did you plan it or just wake up and do it?
When I gave up my DOC I just woke up one day and said NO MORE I don't want to live this way anymore. This last time, he had his quit date planned, the problem was that was his only plan and I think by not having the knowledge and not really being prepared is why he failed this time .... i saw the want to quit in his eyes that's why I say I believe he's ready to get it out of his life.
For you, did you plan it or just wake up and do it?
When I gave up my DOC I just woke up one day and said NO MORE I don't want to live this way anymore. This last time, he had his quit date planned, the problem was that was his only plan and I think by not having the knowledge and not really being prepared is why he failed this time .... i saw the want to quit in his eyes that's why I say I believe he's ready to get it out of his life.
I think it's wonderful that you're looking to help your BF. I WILL say that if he put even HALF the time and effort into his own recovery as YOU are putting in, he may have a chance.
You're busy planning, researching, requesting off work, and even almost trying to plan a surprise get away for him to detox, and meanwhile, he hasn't even asked for help yet (and yes, I understand why).
Sweetie, I KNOW you want him to get well, but you are doing everything...and I do mean everything. That's just NOT going to work. I hope and pray that once you have the talk, he'll be ready and willing also, but if not, that leaves you emotionally and physically wrecked...all this planning and work....and if he doesn't agree, or doesn't follow through, then you have to face the next step, which is making some very hard decisions.
Just please stop putting off the talk, he needs to be included in this process from go....and he should be right alongside with you for the planning. I understand why you're kind of holding out, but that's just because you know (deep down) that the chances are good that you want this SO much more than him.
My heart breaks for you....you're putting your everything into this, and that's EXACTLY how loved ones of addicts end up sick themselves. Please just take a step back and remember to take care of YOU...and get him onboard with this soon, so you know which end is up...and what's next.
Best to you, keeping you both in my thoughts.
You're busy planning, researching, requesting off work, and even almost trying to plan a surprise get away for him to detox, and meanwhile, he hasn't even asked for help yet (and yes, I understand why).
Sweetie, I KNOW you want him to get well, but you are doing everything...and I do mean everything. That's just NOT going to work. I hope and pray that once you have the talk, he'll be ready and willing also, but if not, that leaves you emotionally and physically wrecked...all this planning and work....and if he doesn't agree, or doesn't follow through, then you have to face the next step, which is making some very hard decisions.
Just please stop putting off the talk, he needs to be included in this process from go....and he should be right alongside with you for the planning. I understand why you're kind of holding out, but that's just because you know (deep down) that the chances are good that you want this SO much more than him.
My heart breaks for you....you're putting your everything into this, and that's EXACTLY how loved ones of addicts end up sick themselves. Please just take a step back and remember to take care of YOU...and get him onboard with this soon, so you know which end is up...and what's next.
Best to you, keeping you both in my thoughts.
Thank you for the article, my thought behind the Sub was, the last 2 times he tried to quite the Sub was his security and both times he only had 2 or 3 strips and they made him REAL SICK. After this last attempt, when I did my homework I realized he got so sick because what he was really trying to do was take the Sub with the dope to try and avoid the wd's. So I'm not even sure he will want them I just thought as a security / maybe ease his pain type situation. But Your right, given his circumstances and past prolly not a good idea.
Im not gonna post the whole article (too long)...just a few clips. I wish you wouldn't even consider subs. You will be back here next year trying to figure out whats the best way to detox him from that. Oh well...to each is own.
The Great Suboxone Debate
Buprenorphine is estimated to be 25 to 45 times as powerful as morphine. Scanlan says patients who want to get off the 8 to 16 mg levels physicians typically prescribe must taper very slowly because of the drug’s half-life. “When I hear that amount,” he says, “I think, ‘This is going to take a year.’” Addicts who are used to detoxing from heroin can be in for a rude surprise when they try to kick a bupe addiction—the lack of energy and the depression can overwhelm.
Most people, including doctors, don’t understand bupe’s strength, Scanlan says. He has noticed that at long-term doses of even 2 mg, bupe can block almost all of a person’s emotions. “They say to me after they’re off for a while, ‘Wow, I’m really having a full range of feelings,’” he says.
When it was first released in 2002, Suboxone was hailed as a major advance over methadone. But millions of scrips later, critics charge that the seductive opiate "cure" is causing its own epidemic of addiction.
But like so many other drugs, the data the manufacturer showed the FDA for approval of Suboxone told only part of the story. Most clinical trials are small, short-term, and selective, so once the drug is marketed—and Big Pharma is nothing if not a marketing juggernaut—its long-term effects in large numbers of people begin to show the drug’s true colors. As was the case with OxyContin, Suboxone is widely promoted by doctors as being nonaddictive, but the experience of many addicts proves otherwise: bupe can be harder to kick than methadone—and methadone is a beast to kick. At the high doses many physicians prescribe—8 to 24 mg—some say it’s almost impossible to do without professional help.
Meanwhile bupe sales continue to skyrocket. In 2002, some 20,000 US patients were being prescribed the drug; by 2009, that number was 640,000. The Guardian reported last year that Reckitt Benckiser, the maker of Subutex and Suboxone, saw its pharma earnings shoot up by more than sixfold between 2004 and 2009, largely thanks to US sales of the drugs. "Buprenorphine is now the 41st most prescribed drug in the US. Five years ago, it was 196th," Scanlan says. "It's a money machine."
The Great Suboxone Debate
Buprenorphine is estimated to be 25 to 45 times as powerful as morphine. Scanlan says patients who want to get off the 8 to 16 mg levels physicians typically prescribe must taper very slowly because of the drug’s half-life. “When I hear that amount,” he says, “I think, ‘This is going to take a year.’” Addicts who are used to detoxing from heroin can be in for a rude surprise when they try to kick a bupe addiction—the lack of energy and the depression can overwhelm.
Most people, including doctors, don’t understand bupe’s strength, Scanlan says. He has noticed that at long-term doses of even 2 mg, bupe can block almost all of a person’s emotions. “They say to me after they’re off for a while, ‘Wow, I’m really having a full range of feelings,’” he says.
When it was first released in 2002, Suboxone was hailed as a major advance over methadone. But millions of scrips later, critics charge that the seductive opiate "cure" is causing its own epidemic of addiction.
But like so many other drugs, the data the manufacturer showed the FDA for approval of Suboxone told only part of the story. Most clinical trials are small, short-term, and selective, so once the drug is marketed—and Big Pharma is nothing if not a marketing juggernaut—its long-term effects in large numbers of people begin to show the drug’s true colors. As was the case with OxyContin, Suboxone is widely promoted by doctors as being nonaddictive, but the experience of many addicts proves otherwise: bupe can be harder to kick than methadone—and methadone is a beast to kick. At the high doses many physicians prescribe—8 to 24 mg—some say it’s almost impossible to do without professional help.
Meanwhile bupe sales continue to skyrocket. In 2002, some 20,000 US patients were being prescribed the drug; by 2009, that number was 640,000. The Guardian reported last year that Reckitt Benckiser, the maker of Subutex and Suboxone, saw its pharma earnings shoot up by more than sixfold between 2004 and 2009, largely thanks to US sales of the drugs. "Buprenorphine is now the 41st most prescribed drug in the US. Five years ago, it was 196th," Scanlan says. "It's a money machine."
NA meetings are great. I would not make any plans until the "talk". Keep him at home. He needs to be comfortable in his own surroundings. Just my 2 cents.
Good luck to you. I will pray for all of us.... seeing and reading your stories have given me strength and more motivation that I'm doing the right thing.
Thank you very much! I will definitely keep you all posted. Due to our financial situation and my job I have alot to get into place first. And I'm sure I will have more questions as I prepare. I agree trading one drug for another to get off drugs makes no sense. I only asked because that "idea" was almost like a security blanket for him this last attempt. I was thinking I'd maybe get 4 suboxone strips 8mg just to help ease him a little during the hardest part. Is that still a bad idea? And as for this forum, I definitely will share it with him and I think hearing everyones stories will really help, both of us so please keep them coming! The more i can share and show him when "the talk" happens i think will lesson a little of his fears. For aftercare, I was thinking NA meetings? He's already familiar and comfortable with that idea. And 2 more questions, I'm just looking for opinions here... what might be more comfortable. .. at home or I was thinking maybe taking him somewhere for like 2 nights? And my 2nd is this, once I've got my dates off from my job I was going to tell him I have something planed for us n he needs this week off work so that he can get the time off w/out risking his job and so he don't start any side jobs or anything and then maybe a few days before the date, I will come clean have the talk and give him the choice to do it or not?
Heroin detox is hard. First 5-7 is the worst. Other than water, Gatorade and imodium nothing much will help. Clonidine helps some. Epson salt baths help with pain and restlessnesses. As much as he can sleep the better for him.
But he has to be strong and get through it. 2 weeks and he will be much better. Then the cravings will be the hardest part. He will need meetings etc or he was not make it.
But he has to be strong and get through it. 2 weeks and he will be much better. Then the cravings will be the hardest part. He will need meetings etc or he was not make it.
I don't have much to say other than what the others have already told you. I applaud you for wanting to help him! The only ending to continue to use is death. I don't have personal experience with his DOC but I do have experience w SUB and I say run as far away from you can from that! I was addicted to Lortab a few years back. In the midst of that detox I thought there was no way I could do it so I went to a Sub Dr. My intentions were to stay on it only for a month. 7 months later I wanted off and let me tell you that was Hell!! I remember wishing so badly that I would have just toughed out the WD from the Lortab. Long story short, I got off the sub successfully and it was not 3 weeks later and I herniated another disc. I had surgery in July and BAM back on the pills. I am 9 days clean now, happily and as someone already said, remembering the pain and misery of the detox is enough to never ever ever go through it again! My point with all that is that I... ME.. MYSELF decided to stop the pills! I made a personal decesion on my own that enough was enough! I hope that your BF can do the same. You have come to a great place for help. Perhaps you can get him to join us where he can see for himself that others have been through exactly what he is going through. People that have that exact same experience and although your there for him people here can prove that he is not alone in this battle. It can be done! Although I don't have experience w that drug, look at the people that have already given you advice. They ( we all ) are here to help and support. I think if he wants to kick it, encourage him to come here! This site and this group of people truly is a godsend. Please keep us posted and Bless you for what your doing for him.
COMMUNITY LEADER
To blame someone else is a famous addict trait...."you weren't there for me"...." you didn't help me...", it's what we do when we don't want to look at ourselves. I understand you want to help him and making a plan is definatly the way to go, however, he is going to have to want it more than anything he's ever wanted in his entire life! If he's w/d from heroin before then he knows whats coming....you can make him comfortable (but not too comfortable!) I am a firm believer that if you take away all of the pain associated with w/d's it's real easy to go back! (Again though, that's just MY opinion!) I believe it needs to suck so we remember how to not get back there.
As far as the sub or methadone programs....I, personally, wouldn't do either. I turned to subs for opiate addiction and the consequences of just not getting off of the opiates was horrendous, for me. I believe the w/d from heroin are hard, but alot shorter than subs or methadone. But I hear ya, I too switched from one drug to another, so my opinion on sub is this....if used for a very short time...less than 3 weeks kind of short....then perhaps the subs can work. However, I found that it's very easy to get caught on the subs. Just as easy as getting caught on anything that makes you feel good. I found using the subs allowed me to not skip a beat, I literally went to work once the started the dosing on the subs that morning....but NOT missing a beat, tends to make us think that we're o.k.???? I hope you get where i am going with this. And once they catch you, that's another drug you will have to w/d from! What will he use to lessen the w/d when it's the subs????
I say, if your up for it, pick a date to go c/t....once you get to that date eliminate all the numbers that he has in his phone for his friends and dealers. Take the jump....make sure you have lots of nutricious liquids, soups, gatorade, water, protein shakes, etc...available. Meat, eggs and dairy, high in amino acids, you can find vitamins that are high in this. Emergen C packets helped me tremendously, Motrin 200mg ( I usually took 3 at a time), Vit b6 and b12, L-Tyrosine (GNC) and rest! Keep him hydrated as best you can because you know it's going to come out as fast as you can keep it in. If and when you decide to do this....perhaps talk to him about coming on here himself to talk when things feel bad....believe it or not, it helps tremendously.
Good luck to you and whatever decision ya'll make!
As far as the sub or methadone programs....I, personally, wouldn't do either. I turned to subs for opiate addiction and the consequences of just not getting off of the opiates was horrendous, for me. I believe the w/d from heroin are hard, but alot shorter than subs or methadone. But I hear ya, I too switched from one drug to another, so my opinion on sub is this....if used for a very short time...less than 3 weeks kind of short....then perhaps the subs can work. However, I found that it's very easy to get caught on the subs. Just as easy as getting caught on anything that makes you feel good. I found using the subs allowed me to not skip a beat, I literally went to work once the started the dosing on the subs that morning....but NOT missing a beat, tends to make us think that we're o.k.???? I hope you get where i am going with this. And once they catch you, that's another drug you will have to w/d from! What will he use to lessen the w/d when it's the subs????
I say, if your up for it, pick a date to go c/t....once you get to that date eliminate all the numbers that he has in his phone for his friends and dealers. Take the jump....make sure you have lots of nutricious liquids, soups, gatorade, water, protein shakes, etc...available. Meat, eggs and dairy, high in amino acids, you can find vitamins that are high in this. Emergen C packets helped me tremendously, Motrin 200mg ( I usually took 3 at a time), Vit b6 and b12, L-Tyrosine (GNC) and rest! Keep him hydrated as best you can because you know it's going to come out as fast as you can keep it in. If and when you decide to do this....perhaps talk to him about coming on here himself to talk when things feel bad....believe it or not, it helps tremendously.
Good luck to you and whatever decision ya'll make!
I'm a recovering heroin addict with almost 5 years clean. Here's my 2 cents....
You ask, "Whats better to use in the beginning suboxone or methadone?"
NEITHER...NEITHER....NEITHER....NEITHER...NEITHER!!!!
Those are crutch drugs that have there own very strong potential for addiction AND if you see on this site, there are many struggling to get off that stuff. Stay away from it!! I NEVER recommend either of those...EVER! And if I did ever recommend it in the future, it would be for someone who is an IV addict with either Hep C or HIV that has been using for 25+ years, shares needles, and has MANY unsuccessful attempts at getting clean. And even then...it wouldn't be for the addict...it would be a harm reduction tactic so that person wouldn't spread disease to others. People say those drugs are reserved for the "hardcore" and I say that's bullshat!
People feel like there gonna die during opiate detox but that's not gonna happen. Medicine should only be used to prevent death or serious harm like with benzo or alcohol detox.
One of the most enlightening and spiritual experiences I ever had was detoxing in the Los Angeles County jail....laying on the hard floor, cramping...sweating, etc. Anytime I even think about thinking about thinking about using, I refer to my memories of that experience and I get a big No thank you. People try and run from the detox and make it not happen, I say embrace it and make it a part of your recovery. Every time I come on this forum I remember my awful withdraw experience. Best part of my aftercare if you ask me.
Anyways...there something called the Thomas recipe that some swear by. It may help. Ive never tried it although I have used many herbs in the past to help with PAWS and such. Heres the link below.
http://www.medhelp.org/tags/health_page/45/Addiction/Thomas-Recipe-Re-Posted?hp_id=16
You ask, "Whats better to use in the beginning suboxone or methadone?"
NEITHER...NEITHER....NEITHER....NEITHER...NEITHER!!!!
Those are crutch drugs that have there own very strong potential for addiction AND if you see on this site, there are many struggling to get off that stuff. Stay away from it!! I NEVER recommend either of those...EVER! And if I did ever recommend it in the future, it would be for someone who is an IV addict with either Hep C or HIV that has been using for 25+ years, shares needles, and has MANY unsuccessful attempts at getting clean. And even then...it wouldn't be for the addict...it would be a harm reduction tactic so that person wouldn't spread disease to others. People say those drugs are reserved for the "hardcore" and I say that's bullshat!
People feel like there gonna die during opiate detox but that's not gonna happen. Medicine should only be used to prevent death or serious harm like with benzo or alcohol detox.
One of the most enlightening and spiritual experiences I ever had was detoxing in the Los Angeles County jail....laying on the hard floor, cramping...sweating, etc. Anytime I even think about thinking about thinking about using, I refer to my memories of that experience and I get a big No thank you. People try and run from the detox and make it not happen, I say embrace it and make it a part of your recovery. Every time I come on this forum I remember my awful withdraw experience. Best part of my aftercare if you ask me.
Anyways...there something called the Thomas recipe that some swear by. It may help. Ive never tried it although I have used many herbs in the past to help with PAWS and such. Heres the link below.
http://www.medhelp.org/tags/health_page/45/Addiction/Thomas-Recipe-Re-Posted?hp_id=16
I didn't do much of anything except ride it out. I detoxed so many times it was worse every time and that will happen with him. I don't know the list of vitamins and minerals that members here use to help buy I will try and ask for you. He will have bathroom issues, Imodium helps with that. He will RLS, that is a tough one but hot soaks in the bath with epsom salt and exercise help with that. I found that sleeping in a lunge type chair helped a lot since I could position my legs. Laying down kicks off rls. He will sleep issues. Some people say Benadryl helps. Nothing worked for me. If he could possibly get Clonidine for the doctor it will help..he may have spikes in his blood pressure. He will have no energy..that is where the supplements come in. Try and get him to eat something even if it is only toast or soup. Make sure he stays hydrated. That is very important.
You better have thick skin for going through this with him. He will most likely blame you, etc, etc. while he is detoxing. It will take about 5 to 7 days to go through the physical detox. I STRONGLY suggest he get set up in an aftercare program right away. Putting down the drug is the easy part. He will need help staying clean.
Let us know what is going on. We are here to support you.
You better have thick skin for going through this with him. He will most likely blame you, etc, etc. while he is detoxing. It will take about 5 to 7 days to go through the physical detox. I STRONGLY suggest he get set up in an aftercare program right away. Putting down the drug is the easy part. He will need help staying clean.
Let us know what is going on. We are here to support you.
Yes I know , and that's where this is heading. I will not walk away from him because of failureI am no one to judge another's strength. I know this will be a life battle even after he's clean. But, please help "me" at least, can you give me some insight of what worked for you?
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for your time.
You have a great attitude. Good for you. My DOC is also Heroin but I have been clean from it 26 years. there is always hope, it is always doable. Just don't lose YOU trying to save him.
I do not want to watch him die! But, this has taken such a mental, emotional and now very physical toll on me. If he's not ready to quit, I am ready to distance myself, for my health, until he is.
I agree with what your saying and I KNOW HIM, I DO BELIEVE this is what he wants. But you see, he's very ashamed to come to me because I don't do it and he doesn't think I understand and Yada Yada. Theres alot more behind that, lets just say when it was starting i was very angry about it and i have a RAZOR as a tongue. Im going to give him the "choice" i know it has to be his decision. ... I'm not new to addiction I've had my share but just different drug (many years before I got with him). I need to have all my ducks in row before I confront him. If he chooses not to, I'm prepared then to use that time I took off work to get myself out. And, yes I know I can not give him an ultimatum because I know it has to be his choice on his time when he's ready. But if he truly is ready, I think he's going to jump on the opportunity I'm trying to offer him. I believe his biggest hurdle is fear that he can't make And that he will be alone. And, at worst ..... "i" will know I did my best and I need that too.
Hi & Welcome, He CLEARLY was not ready the last time and the blaming stuff is all part of addiction. I would go on and tell you what you need to help but there is no sense until he asks for help and sets himself up for success. He has to want this, not you. I suggest that you have a talk with him and get it all out in the open. Make absolutely sure it is his idea or he may fail again. GOD bless you for sticking by him. Let us know what happens after you talk with him.
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