Needing encouragement

[Jennibean]

I have been lurking on this site for a couple months but this is my first post. I would come here when I was running out of my scripts thinking of quitting and when I had a new refill you would never find me here because I was in denial. I have been taking Vicodin for the past 8 months everyday and lately I have been taking (12) 5/500 or (8) 7/750. I occasionally had scripts of percocet in there too. It started with a back injury and when that was feeling better my gall bladder started giving me alot of pain. It took them a couple months to diagnose my gall bladder problem but I had it removed on Jan 8 and I guess you could say I am pain free. So natuarlly time to stop taking pain medicaition. Well that proved impossible!! If I woke up without any I was so depressed and I would go to any Dr or Dentist to get more. So I wrote my Dr a letter telling him about my problem and I sat there as he read it. I knew I was bringing my main supply to an end but I had to. His solution was to give me oxycontin so I wouldn't have the ups and downs because it lasts 12 hours, he gave me a small dose of 10mg's and took me to take it for 10 days and then every other day for 5 days. Hmm yeah right you know that was gone in just 3 days! From there I hit urgent cares and dentists and suddenly this past Sunday I didn't feel like going and waiting 3 hours at urgent care. I decided I would finally quit, well I was so sick I couldn't take care of my child my hudsbad had to lift her because my back hurt so bad. The diarreah has been awful so I keep immodium next to me at all times. But the worst part was trying to go to sleep. I tried everything but to no avail, my legs and arms were flying all over the place, I was SO aware of my feet it was unreal, guess they had been somewhat numb for 8 months. After  not sleeping I knew I needed to go back to my Dr and ask for more help or I would just go find some Vicodin because the feeling of withdrawl was unbearable. So my Mom came over and I went to the Dr, he gave me a script for Ativan and that is going to help me I think, It stops me from having panick attacks and most importantly stops my feet from jumping around. I told him no more opiates! I was afraid he would try more of that and after one night of detox I know I never want to start this again. I don't drink or do recreational drugs, I didn't go into this looking to get high I did it because I was in pain. I am no longer in pain and I need to stop taking these things because they are affecting my life, haven't made love to my husband in 8 months, my Mom and Brother's and sister are all worried about me thinking somehow I have changed but not knowing why, I thought they made me feel normal how I was suuposed to feel but after just three days, the colors are brighter and the way I think truly is different. I have a LONG way to go which Is why I finally decided to post. 3 days is NOTHING compared to the 8 months I was on them. I still feel awful and am wondering when this will go away. Like a bad flu almost but I know the Ativan are helping. I only have those for 10 days though so I hope it gets better soon. Will I ever have that feeling of well being again without vicodin? I took 2 and knew my life was fine everything was fine..LOL now I am not so sure and I am scared!
When will I wake up happy again? I used to say people who did drugs were idiots and I LOVED feeling normal. I can remember saying it but don't remember what normal feels like! Thank you for listening, I really hope I can do this. I have never tried before because I never really want to quit, I want to take them for the rest of my life!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It's a bright morning indeed!  Thanks for being so considerate!  I hope all is well with you, too.  Marty and I are counting our blessings and thankful for all of our friends.  What would life be like without you?  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....How are you today???  I hope you have many bright mornings, you and your wife.  Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you two. (-:

Love,

Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Lol is right!  I still say that you and Spook are opposite sides of the same coin.  My wife and I are the same way but things usually work out for the best in spite of it.  That's life, lol!  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Well of course, God created Science. lol
J.J.

[spook]

Its working!.God and science can coexist.

[cindi]

JB, I am still pryaing for you and Marty,  God be with you both, he does work in mysterious way,  and to JB, Annie and Spook,  What wonderful people you are, you are all an  inspiration to me and on days such as this when I feel like my world has come crashing down on me once again, I for some reason felt compelled to read further down the board today and I fell onto your posts.  You help more than you'll ever know    Love you guys   cindi

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, a little more is given me each day to savor.  I had a long talk with my wife this morning about her cancer.  She's a very strong one... especially when the whole family is panicked and demanding that she see even more doctors.  The truth is that her doctor is part of a large group of oncologists that are working on her cancer.  Luckily the tumors are on the peripherals and not yet causing any marked health problems.  There's no pain or breathing problems or weight loss.  We will wait until the doctor is ready to begin treatment again however long that is.

As for me, a few night's of good sleep and painfree days have done wonders. Thank you for your support!  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....It seems as though your morning came.  God did break those chains.  And many are praying for you two.  I'm sure there will be positive results.

Love,

annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You two are wonderful people!  I really was down in the depths of despair lately, mainly because of my wife's health problems.  She was supposed to start chemotherapy again this week.  It was postponed again for various reasons until June.  

I thought that I had a handle on my own pain issues and went off my meds for several days.  I do that once in a while to make sure I don't get too strung out.  I won't be making that mistake again!  My doctor has changed my script to give me more relief as of yesterday.  Strangely, I hadn't asked him for more during my visit last week.  I never even brought the subject of pain up.

Maybe God is taking care of me afterall!  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

BEATITUDES
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.  Blessed are they wich do hunger and thirst after righteousness:  for they shall be filled.  Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.  Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.  Blesssed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.  Blessed are they wich are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manor of evil against you falsely for my name sake.  Rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
KJB 5:3-12
Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

THIS TOO SHALL PASS

If I can endure for this minute whatever is happening to me, No matter how heavy  my heart is or how dark the moment may be-

If I can remain calm and quiet whith all the world crashing about me, secure in the knowledge God loves me
When everyone else seems to doubt me -
If I can but keep on believing what I know in my heart to be true, that darkness will fade with the morning and that this will pass away, too-

Then nothing in life can defeat me for as long as this knowledge
remains I can suffer whatever is happening, for I know God will break all the chains that are binding me tight in the darkness
And trying to fill me with fear-
For there is no night without dawning
And I know that my morning is near.

Helen Steiner Rice

Love,

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

Listen and Listen well (or see in this case!)  I have bowed before God on my hands and knees many times.  I have always said.."this will be the last time I beg you!"  He answered..by granting me what I wanted.  There were also times...when I prayed for something and he also answered, but events didn't unfold as I wished, nevertheless, I got my result.  Not sure if I am making any sense here.  
About death.  JB..I wish you had the assurance that I feel.  I am not afraid to die, and often pray for my time.  My children are young and this is why I hold on to life.  My human side fears only "HOW", but never when, or why.  I live for the day I will meet my maker, and he looks into my eyes/soul and says..."You have known Me."...Well done.  I look at the agony all around me, and also live it....I feel for what you and Marty are going through, I listen to the World News, and tears run down my face and sometimes anger.  I say Lord how much longer....How much longer???  We will not know the day nor the hour, but will know when the season is upon us.  There is so much wrong in this world, but we were left to our own devices...and sometimes..WE suffer.  I know of some great teachers and end time prophecy experts...If you are interested I will post them.  You may have them airing on cable or satelite.
I feel deeply... what you are going through...I can relate, believe me.  I will pray for you.....I am glad that you are able to post, even feeling as you do.  We are your friends and we are here for you........You have given so much to us already.  Hang in there JB!.... I
I will post a special verse for you.....(I have it saved in my computer)...when I locate it.  When I read it...It gives me peace and great joy.  All of this I have stated here...gives me my assurance...the times, scripture, end time prophecy, pain, love,...etc.... etc.

We love you and Marty!
Annie (:

[spook]

It really sounds like you need to stop fighting againced the Painkillers,take enough so you feel better,and deal with Addiction and with your illnessness as best as you can make the Doctors perform,you are run down and depressed at the moment,I am not sure exactly what you are taking but get somemore into you and feel good for a while,I told you I think ,once,that I was 10 seconds from killing myself before I asked for gods help and the spiritual part was uplifting enough to carry me,through,but I only asked once.It is an emergency thing to me,please do not be afraid of death as only the body/brain dies the consciousness persists,that is your soul and your low spirits are from depression it effects how you emotionally feel your soul,you can rise above it.
We all eventually die and if you are pain free,at the time,it is a beautiful experience,the beginning of a new life,in a new body.trust me I know.We are all one,just separated by our bodies.
If you cannot get adequate pain control,its not like I can send you a letter(package) or something,is it?,that is not a long term solution,I think you will feel a bit better soon,hang there mate,the sun will shine again soon.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I guess I said that once.  In God's time, not ours!  I'm only human and sometimes I forget. I sit here and think about all the things I want to do everyday only to be let down by my body's illness.  I get so disappointed when I get tired so easily these days!  It's hard to even sit and express my thoughts anymore.  I don't even know when I'm making sense because of all the meds I have to take.  Please pray for me because I've asked God for too much already and don't even know what's in store for me next.  I'm afraid of death but I know it is on the way.  I've never felt like this before. I don't want to go,yet. Pain,weakness and exhaustion are distorting my senses and spirit.  J.B.

[spook]

The old testament is truly the words of god,my task may be in the transliteration to the benefit of some humans,god only knows?,I just have a compass in my head and it always points to the benefit of all,in the long term,in the future.
I shall/have sown a seed and future generations may reap the harvest.My life is not important,other than for this purpose.
Note,this has never happened before,they cannot stop what I have started now,the truth has become lies,but the seed of knowledge,I have sown,the doubt in our minds,will eventually burst forth such that the truth that it encapsulates turns lies to stone and their is no turning back except to peer upon your own death.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Laughing....smiling.....grinning....."Oh what words of experience!"  Life is a journey and an experience un-folding, interpreted in our own unique minds.  If only we could all "SEE" as some do.  
You truly possess a gift.  Anyone  reading your memoirs, can "SEE" this.  I would love to set before you on the day you realize your "true-calling", when...where... and how...Only remains to be seen in the times ahead.  You are ascending...the direction is ahead.  Keep seeking, proving, and experiencing.  Life is only in the blink of an eye.....In God's Time!  Our purposes will be revealed in His time.  Not ours...right JB??

Annie

[spook]

Yes Dihydrocodeine(DF118) is very similar to Hydrocodone also known as-(dihydrocodeinone)but as you can see the Hydrocodone has a Ketone group ie ends in "one" NOT "ine",this ketone group on the #6 OH of (DF118)increases potency by a factor of 8 to Codeine and of course `qualitativ`e increases make for a much cleaner,sweeter more lucid euphoria yee ha!!!!!.
Doses below for non-tolerant ,but NOT Opioid naive individuals!!
1.So a single dose of 300mg of Codeine(ORAL) give a high,pretty crappy really.
2.180mg Dihydrocodeine(aspirin removed)single(ORAL)gives not a bad little tickle.
3.40mg of Dihrocodeinone(IV)or even Oral provides a `very` nice feeling,not quite good enough to devote your life to it.
4.10mg Diacetylmorphine(Heroin)(IV)is a bit better than 3. but nothing to write home about(or phone ET about).
5.30mg Oxycodone provides better rush than Heroin (IV)10mg,30mg Orally,rapidly acting nice rush better than 3.brief effect.
6.Oxymorphone 3mg (IV) better rush than Heroin,orally try 10 mg excellent,relatively brief~4hrs
7.(DESIGNER DRUG SERIES RESEARCH ONLY)(14-hydroxy,7,8-Dihydro,3-acetyl,6-morphinone)2mg (IV)instant obsessional addiction,"threatened"homicidal acts to get supplies after a single dose,absolute ectasy,profound change in meaning and purpose of life,makes XTC look like Codeine is to Heroin,very dangerous,incredibly addictive.Not RECOMMENDED "EVER" even under strict supervision.
========================(Infinity)=============(life/death)======
First we must realize no man or woman is an island and second we must not burn our bridges behind us,I found a Paradise in Lombok east of Bali in indonesia,I swear I got higher their naturally than from any drug,sitting back looking at a Volcano on the mainland of Lombok from my Coral atoll,all the luscious food one could want $3- US per day accomodation included,Swim in warm tropical sunshine and look at beautiful coral reefs,make love to Muslim girls,fallen pray to materialism,but they enjoy the sex and are insulted by money,they want to marry you???????/they are georgous and I never(seriously) hurt any of them,they knew I must be leaving,on a big jet plane don`t know when I will back again,so the song goes.My life could have taken many paths,But Paradise is not for me,not while people suffer,My life is written in the stars,it is where our sun came from in the first place.I have found islands of paradise in my mind,but reality calls me back to sobriety everytime,maybe their is a purpose for my life and I am slowly unravelling it,it was so simple,thats why I could not see it.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for the info.  It sounds like the dihydrocodiene is similar to hydrocdone but I'm no chemist.  Drug laws are very strange!  You say that this is OTC in Australia, in the UK it is schedule II and in the USA it would probably be schedule III.  I guess the Tylenol content has something to do with that?  In my own state, you can still buy codiene cough syrup OTC but it is RX only in most other states.  I remember a pharmacist telling me several years ago that he thought Vicodin would go OTC in a few years!  Hah,hah!

I'd sure like to know where that island is that I could go on a chemical holiday.  I've been fighting my pain for so long that I feel I need "the island".  J.B.

[spook]

Codeine(3-methylmorphine)
Dihydocodeine(7,8-Dihydro,3-Methylmorphine)-DF118
18mg of DF118 is Equivalent in Analgesic Potentcy to 30mg Codeine.
Heres the REAL difference,saturation of the 7,8 double bond (Alkene)increases blood brain permiability(more lipid soluble),resulting in more rapid affect and greater potency(less enterohepatic recycling and thus metabolic degradation),however it also changes receptor binding affinity and localization in SOME regional areas,resulting in a Qualitative improvement as well,thus with DF118; SWEETER euphoria and more SEDATION.A lot of these qualitative changes are linked to receptor regional localization specificities in  Limbic entities like the Mamilary body,and Olfactory turbercle,thus the "TASTE" is better.Do not expect to find this information in any old Medical Text,this is cutting edge research,most not published yet.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I suppose that I could look this information up but what is the difference between plain codiene and dihydrocodiene?  My brother-in law gets 8mg codiene and aspirin compound from Canada and gave me a rather large amount of this about two years ago.  I wasn't really impressed with the stuff and we ended up taking it like any OTC pain reliever. We just kept the bottle on the kitchen table along with all the other normal OTC meds. I've had pure codiene before and found it to be pretty awful stuff.  Maybe I'm allergic to it?  J.B.

[Andy]

P.S.

I forgot to say that they are in Schedule II

[Andy]

The Dihydrocodeine Tartrate is known as DF118 in the UK, They come in 30 mg strength. Also they do not contain any other active ingrediance.

[spook]

Ok,OK the "ceiling" dose varies amongst all individuals,I get side effects and no increased analgesia around 180mg(single oral dose) and you can handle 240mg(divided doses).It is not absolute.
What is known for sure is that it is the demethylation of Dihydrocodeine to Dihydromorphine that mainly contributes to its analgesic effects.The Enzyme(cyp2d6) required to do this will become progressively depleted from your liver and as a consequence a tolerance will occur rapidly.Morphine does not require "this" `specific` enzyme and although its bioavailability is around 23%(oral)it enzymatic metabolizing systems,do not contribute to Tolerace greatly,in fact continued Oral use can increase bioavailability.(first pass systemic bioavailability)
Dihydrocodeine is available OTC in Australia,in a compound tablet 7.5mg/300mg Aspirin,easily removed by dissoving in water and filtering.
Could you tell me if what you are taking is known as DF118 and the strength of tablets and what schedule they are in?.
Thankyou in advance.

[Andy]

I have never come across not exceeding 180 mg per day. (There is no paracetamol/tylenol in it, just Dihydrocodeine) Why should you not exceed this dose? The doctors seem to prefer me on the Dihydrocodeine to the Morphine and to be honest the morphine is a far better drug for killing the pain. Maybe thinking about it morphine does not have a ceiling to its effects, Dihydrocodeine above 240 mg a day has a ceiling to analgesic effect or so I have read.