Needing encouragement

[Jennibean]

I have been lurking on this site for a couple months but this is my first post. I would come here when I was running out of my scripts thinking of quitting and when I had a new refill you would never find me here because I was in denial. I have been taking Vicodin for the past 8 months everyday and lately I have been taking (12) 5/500 or (8) 7/750. I occasionally had scripts of percocet in there too. It started with a back injury and when that was feeling better my gall bladder started giving me alot of pain. It took them a couple months to diagnose my gall bladder problem but I had it removed on Jan 8 and I guess you could say I am pain free. So natuarlly time to stop taking pain medicaition. Well that proved impossible!! If I woke up without any I was so depressed and I would go to any Dr or Dentist to get more. So I wrote my Dr a letter telling him about my problem and I sat there as he read it. I knew I was bringing my main supply to an end but I had to. His solution was to give me oxycontin so I wouldn't have the ups and downs because it lasts 12 hours, he gave me a small dose of 10mg's and took me to take it for 10 days and then every other day for 5 days. Hmm yeah right you know that was gone in just 3 days! From there I hit urgent cares and dentists and suddenly this past Sunday I didn't feel like going and waiting 3 hours at urgent care. I decided I would finally quit, well I was so sick I couldn't take care of my child my hudsbad had to lift her because my back hurt so bad. The diarreah has been awful so I keep immodium next to me at all times. But the worst part was trying to go to sleep. I tried everything but to no avail, my legs and arms were flying all over the place, I was SO aware of my feet it was unreal, guess they had been somewhat numb for 8 months. After  not sleeping I knew I needed to go back to my Dr and ask for more help or I would just go find some Vicodin because the feeling of withdrawl was unbearable. So my Mom came over and I went to the Dr, he gave me a script for Ativan and that is going to help me I think, It stops me from having panick attacks and most importantly stops my feet from jumping around. I told him no more opiates! I was afraid he would try more of that and after one night of detox I know I never want to start this again. I don't drink or do recreational drugs, I didn't go into this looking to get high I did it because I was in pain. I am no longer in pain and I need to stop taking these things because they are affecting my life, haven't made love to my husband in 8 months, my Mom and Brother's and sister are all worried about me thinking somehow I have changed but not knowing why, I thought they made me feel normal how I was suuposed to feel but after just three days, the colors are brighter and the way I think truly is different. I have a LONG way to go which Is why I finally decided to post. 3 days is NOTHING compared to the 8 months I was on them. I still feel awful and am wondering when this will go away. Like a bad flu almost but I know the Ativan are helping. I only have those for 10 days though so I hope it gets better soon. Will I ever have that feeling of well being again without vicodin? I took 2 and knew my life was fine everything was fine..LOL now I am not so sure and I am scared!
When will I wake up happy again? I used to say people who did drugs were idiots and I LOVED feeling normal. I can remember saying it but don't remember what normal feels like! Thank you for listening, I really hope I can do this. I have never tried before because I never really want to quit, I want to take them for the rest of my life!

[chad]

Jen
  You will never be happy until you are off the dope.  Even when yo do finally (if ever) get off.  You will continue to be unhappy.  It takes a long time for this disease to go away.  I mean years and years. Girl I feel ya and I've been there too.  I jus had 16 teeth extracted about 2 hours ago.  Percocets are what they gave me, and know I actually need them for pain.  Ironic isn't it.  They tried to give me a sleeping sedative and they ddn't work, because I take pills all the time.  The doctor was like...are you OK?  I said yeah I just don't feel anything Doc. So he carried me back and hit me with Nitrous OXide.  Anyway I wish you well and we can talk if you e-maiil me ***@****
Love Chad

[PS >>>>Annie]

.........Please tell me that was a typo???  16 teeth....oh my!
yes, I would say you need the medication.  If you dont mind me asking???  why remove the teeth???? .....geeesh take it easy. good luck to you.

[chad]

Nope no type-o, I had SIXTEEN (16) removed today.  I had it done because I needed dentures more than you can imagine.  I was on PhenFen about 2 years ago and it totally destroyed my teeth and gums because it dried out my mouth and made me sweat like a dutch boy on the first day of june.  Yeah, it hurt but I feel a little better now.  But sixteen teeth is a lot of teeth.  I can finally smile again and show my teeth.  Before I always had to just smile and cover up my teeth with my hand, you get the picture.  Anyway God Bless and take Care
Chad

[chad]

I am chad's younger brother,my name is casey.I've done hard drugs all my life,since I was 14 and when I was 18 I started heroin.I tried to quit using when I was 21.I started stealing oxycontin60mg from my dad.When I didn't have Oxycontin,I would go and get heroin.I was taking 2 60's at a time,3 times a day.After fighting with my heroin addiction for years,I finally overdosed.My wife found me in the bathroom dead.My father and my brother(panic stricken)revived me.That still didn't stop me.I continued to use for 5 more months,then one day I decided that I wanted to live again.When I was 22 I quit.I've been clean(no dabbling at all)for 1year and 2 months and for the past 8 days I've been taking 4 7.5mgVicoprofens a day.I know this is wrong but I've missed being high so much and I feel like I'm back on the right track.I am able to function fine in the work world and I pay all of my debts.My baby is due in March and I know I'll be able to provide for her.

[PS >>>>Annie]

To all my new friends here on the forum: Cindi, JB, Tom(Pat), chad, Mariah, Maryanne, Barb, Dee, Vicky V, Brighty, Gina and you too Dan.....Happy Valentines Day!...I wish you all, a life full of love and happiness.  You all deserve it!  Am I being to corny??? lol.....Annie

[Gina]

No it's not corney, I think it's very sweet and I for one appreciate it. Thanks!!!

[PS >>>>Annie]

For those of us dealing w/ chronic pain issues, there is an article at pain.com under FYI "Today's Pain News," I thought you may be interested in.  Give me some feed-back.
Oh, thanks Gina...that was sweet!

[PS >>>>Annie]

See prior post.

[Dee]

Thanks Annie, that was sweet and a picker upper!

[Dee]

Annie, thanks for that site, I just dropped over there, once I go through it and figure it all out I thinks it going to be a great site to visit! thanks again

[PS >>>>Annie]

....Pat, Cindi, JB....anyone!  I am frantic.  Realizing I will be in need of long term pain mngmt, I did a little research.  Pat, I understand how Tom feels now.  When you need a certain treatment and cant get it.  I've called 2 pain mngmnt. ofc's on my insurance plan, only to discover that these doctors are pulling out of the "pain" field.  So much for the jcaho standards and the Pain Patients Bill of Rights.  If my primary doc. doesnt continue to treat me for any reason, I'll have no where to turn.
I've already been to 2 other pain docs and they were big jokes, won't get into that right now.  This crisis is larger than I thought.  I can deal w/ the pain right now, but dammit I'm tired of being strong.....Don't get relief that way.  The doctors where I live are just plain scared and who suffers??? My future looks very grim.......
Ps.....you know what the nurse told me at one of these clinics:  "to many people becoming dependant on medication.  I dont even begin to understand this world we live in.  Lets go save a whale!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Andy]

To Annie,
I have been down this route, it feels like know one will listen or beleive you about your pain. No one is willing to prescribe narcotics because of the fear of addiction.

Please don't give in, there are some doctors who are willing to prescribe these drugs. It has taken me 18 months to prescribe a drug which finally controls the pain. MST (Morphine Sulphate) is one of the best painkillers in the world. I beleive that these drugs should not be kept from people who really need them.

Physical dependence is an inevitable when using narcotics long term but this doesn't meen you are addicted. But unfortunatly most doctors don't see it this way.

I really do hope you get the treatment that you need, good luck.
Andy

[PS >>>>Annie]

.......My pcp is prescribing Vicodin, but for how long???  There are no lines of communication about the next several months.  This is why I have an appointment to see him next week.  I realize from this forum that medication can not be stopped abruptly.  I have this feeling this is what he is going to do.  I've read the stories here.  I do understand now, that I will become dependant.  I stopped the meds in the past w/ no withdrawals, but its inevitable.  Although my pain is somewhat bareable, it will worsen.  Even the nurse I quoted above stated this.  I have been strong for 8 years.......living through the bouts of pain and the limitations, but I feel like this is really hitting home now.  My family is not a good source of support, and thats why I've been here.
  I'm afraid, and tired.
Thank you for responding!   Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....Im happy for you.  I always have hope when I see a story like yours....Thanks

[dee dee]

To Dee. this is DeeDee, I told you i was going to go under a different name as not to confuse everyone but i'm not sure now that i registered under this name ,how to go about that. I noticed when i posted a question this morning, my name was posted as Dee, not DeeDee. sorry for the incovenience.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.......As you gathered from my prior post, I was frantic, in pain, and no-where to turn, but I was going about things the wrong way.
I was up all night in severe pain.....went to my ortho, and as it turns out......I do not need "pain mngmt.", I need surgury. (:  I was just putting off the inevitable, and seeking relief, but the pain (some of the pain) will be remedied once I have the surgury.  I knew I needed the surgury, but wanted to wait.  
Anyway, I will be going in next week, and my Doc prescribed meds, but I've let this go on for so long that the pain is almost beyond relief.

[cindi]

Just read your "frantic post"  My husband is in the exact same predicament.  No one is willing to treat his pain.  The give him this new stuff called MOBIK  Don't ask what I call it  LOL.  Neurontin, elavil what the hell.  This is crazy so I have to watch him on the couch all the time cuz he is non-functioning when the pain becomes to severe.  I don't know, then joe down the street cracks a toe and comes home with Oxy's  go figure....sorry i am so late in reading these posts, man that virus hit everyone in my house like you would not believe.   take care  cindi

[PS >>>>Annie]

I know what you mean.  I think "chronic pain patients" are sooo stigmatized that doctors have this BEWARE attitude.  Ya know I can recall going to the doctor for sinus trouble and getting some meds for the headache, but low and behold I should try to get something for a peace of "machinery" falling out of my body. lmao lol  Its really gotten bad, I tell you!
ps.......Hope you feel better soon!!!

[Andy]

Hi Annie
I'm glad you have worked out what to do, I hope everything goes alright with your surgery next week. Please don't be afraid to take the pain meds if you really need them.

as you have probably have read previously on this forum, taking them for true pain and taking them to just get high are two very different things. Beleive me I don't know what I would do without the Morphine although it doesn't take the pain away it reduces it and enables me to cope with my life most of the time.

Please let me know how you get on,

Andy

[cindi]

Hi,  I saw your Valentine's message,  That was not corny,  it was too sweet and so sincere.  Right back atcha a lillt late but my intentions were good  LOL   Love ya  cin

[PS >>>>Annie]

Raggedy Anne & Andy.........Just a little joke there.  lol   In reading my last post to you; once again, I couldn't help but feel funny.  It seems a little strange to tell someone your happy for them when they receive such strong medication, but I believe I'm starting to get the jist of this whole situation.  To sum it up a bit: Chronic pain = long term medication = understandable dependency.  I do not think Dr. Steve would agree, nor would most doctors.  I guess I do understand their dilemma.  Doctors phones are probably ringing off the hook by patients wanting their meds, and they fear sanctions by the DEA.  And what a dilemma it is.  
I've notice you do not post much.  If you do not mind me asking, what is the nature of your illness or injuries.  If you've read my post, you realize how inquisitive I am. Tom and Cindi have been really great, and have offered much insite into the world of addiction.  Most of them got where they are because of an injury.  
What do YOU think will happen w/ the DEA and laws concerning this matter, in the future?  Cindi believes their will be growing concern over addiction, resulting in tighter legislation.
The whole situation scares me.  I look forward to your response.
Annie

[Andy]

Hi Annie

The reason why I have severe chronic pain is very complicated, I will try to explain as best as I can.

I'm sorry I can't comment on the DEA laws because I live in the UK.

I have a very complicated eye conditions which originally started out as chareracts when I was born and developed into retinal detachments (3 left eye, 1 right). The damage that this surgery caused made the cornea swell up with water. I needed a corneal transplant in June 1999 which unfortunatly was in the middle of the GCSE exams which in England we take at 16. The cornea was rejected two weaks later and couldn't be controlled.

After the rejection the pain has greatly increased and the only drugs in which help are the opiats/narcotics. As the eye which causes the pain has the best sight, I really don't want it removed much against my GP'S wishes who hates prescribeing the Morphine and dihydrocodeine amoung many other drugs.

I have been reffered to a brilliant pain specialist who has no problem with me using these powerful drugs and has said that if people use them for pain, and don't use them to get high then the likely hood of addiction is very low. Physical dependance is inevitable with long term opiate use but as I am already physically dependant on the dihydrocodeine and probably the morphine then what have I got to loose?

I'm sorry about the length of this but I hope it helps in giving other people hope for the future. Beleive me I have been there knowing how low you feel when the pain is unbareable and no-one listens. I still feel like that sometimes but I am learning to cope.

Andy

[Brighty]

I have been away from the forum for awhile and the first thing I somehow read was your post... it caused me to have a serious sense of awareness regarding chronic pain which I read about here so often. You are courageous and have taken a front row seat in managing your own decisions about what is best for YOU !! Congratualtions. Bluntly, to either be addicted, dependent or whatever it may be, or to lose an eye... you can be sure I'd choose the dependency. I don't know if anyone can tell you for sure if dependency caused by pain means you're not addicted... addiction is the complex need, both physical and psychological which is CREATED by the use of these chemicals. My guess is that if a person can live without them when there is no longer pain that perhaps they were just dependent.... but if after withdrawl and pain are both gone the person still continually relapses I think that may be addiction.... there is so much in the way of personality types and genetic predispositions that it seems silly to try to make sense of it... you have found a humanitarian doctor who understands the emotional suffering that goes along with your physical suffering and has opted to give you the comfort you deserve and allow you to make the choices that are your God given rights. God bless you. Brighty

[Brighty]

Thanks so much for the lovely valentine's sentiment !! It felt really good to be included... I hope you find what you need.... I am still baffled by the way hurting people are put in a position of having to justify their needs and then risking criminal activity when they have to resort to the only tactics left to them. God bless you. Brighty

[Andy]

Thank you for your comment, would you mind if I asked what is your problem? I haven't been to this site much so sorry if it is listed in a post further down.

Andy

[PS >>>>Annie]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.  On top of everything else I had a root canal (gone bad) yesterday.  I peaked in for a few minutes, but wasnt able to stay.
Thank you for responding.  Sorry to hear about the problems your having.  I know someone who is declared legally blind.  He's had a lot of trouble.  I can only imagine what you are going through and the choice you've had to make.  What is the long term prognosis.  Will you HAVE to remove it one day???  I'm glad you have a compassionate doctor.  They are few and far between, where I live.  Have you looked into treatments in the U.S.?  
I will tell you what the doctors tell me:  "technology is increased every two years, and there will be advancements in these areas that are sure to benefit you."  See I will need a hip replacement, and I'm in my early thirties.  They will only do hip replacements on someone over 50.  They dont last.  Esp. on an active person.  So I'm left to battle the doctors and the "pain demons".  As I said before, I always have hope when I read a story like yours.  My husband tells me, "if it ever gets really bad (the pain), we will move out of the country, before letting you suffer!"  Pretty drastic, I know.  Well keep in touch, and read this forum.  I came hear out of curiosity and look what happend.  There are GREAT PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM, with very distinctive, compassionate, informed and just plain old carring personalities.  They are all unique and offer a great deal in their own ways, to this site.  They ARE the forum!

[PS >>>>Annie]

Thanks!....I agree w/ you 100%.  What can we do??  Just battle w/ it,  and hope that we dont find ourselves in a precarious situation.

[Brighty]

Hi Andy,

My problem ( and believe me problem is a mild word) is that my 21 ( to be 22 in a few days) year old daughter was actively addicted to heroin for 3 years but as of March 7 will have one year clean. She did not become addicted because of chronic pain but for other reasons... not knowing addiction was something that happened to good ,pretty people like her, being impulsive, being bright but not knowing how bright she was NOT, discovering the "cool" people, and the general reality of why kids use drugs... they're availabe and being purveyed like Polo cologne and Calvin Klein jeans... for profit and to create return customers... you know.. slavery. The other reasons may be her underlying mood disorders... anxiety,depression and also unresloved conflict or trauma.. childhood sexual assault that she never told her dad or me about. I will be a regular on this board for a year come April. As Annie said, everyone here is compassionate, willing to share and help others, and all are genuinely good and Godly human beings carrying big burdens and still forging on with incredible spirit. I feel that by  coming here I have found hope and acceptance. Even though I have no chemical addictions I am treated with kindness and respect and offered the very best information and support that I could hope for. I can't tell my best friends what I can talk about here. I think you will find that this board will be a source of comfort and just plain good information to you. No doctor will be able to tell you what these folks will. I will pray for your healing. Hope you stay with us. Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

Thank you for telling Andy about your hip replacement and the pain issue. I am very humbled when I come to this board... I realize that my challenges are small compared to others. This must be God's way of letting me know the cross He gave me is just right for me and to not complain !! You are blessed to have a supportive husband also. God love him !! Well as far as leaving the country.... when I first came to this forum about 10 months ago there was a guy from Italy named Steve who posted here...  he was on buprenorphine to wean off his opiate addiction and he simply got them in pill form from his doctor... no shame.. no struggle. He had been on them for a couple of months for maintenance.... I know this is what Tom is praying for and so are the rest of us... he said that chronic pain sufferers were on the drug also and able to live normal lives. We shoud be so enlightened here!! I will remember you in my prayers... boy, sometimes I fall asleep before I finish praying but I think it still counts :-)) Love, Brighty

[PS >>>>Annie]

You sound like a great mother.....Do you bake cookies??  lol  Your awesome.  Your daughter is very fortunate.  Hope she knows this.  I only hope for such support.  I shouldnt complain either.  Some support is better than none.
By the way, I always fall asleep when praying.  Just remember its all part of the piece that surpasses all understanding.
Thanks for replying.
Annie (:

[PS >>>>Annie]

It's been a while since I've heard from you.  How are things over in the UK?  I have posted to just about everyone, but in doing so I remebered you.  Just wanted to ck in on you and let you know I will not be on much toward the end of next week.  
Well, hope everything is fine, and drop a few lines to let us know how you are doing.
Annie

[Thomas02]

buprenorphine .... please god, will it ever get here for us in California? I know there are seminars going on right now in San Francisco training physicians on how to treat opiate addiction with bup. I think there's one going on literally as I send this post ... help is one the way. I am gong to stay on top of this process and will post anything I find out. It may not be the magic bullet, but it certainly gives us all hope. I refuse to give up until I get private access to this treatment through my private physicician, and that is literally weeks away. Everybody just hang on. Help is almost here. It's going to happen!

[PS >>>>Annie]

Now that's what I want to hear!  Very encouraging.  Don't ever stop searching and being hopeful.  Keep up the good work, and if anyone can see this thing through you can.  I sense its going to happen too.

Your friend Annie

[spook]

I hope this Encourages,rather than infuriates you.A lot of people have Addictive personalities,and escalate their dose and duration of Narcotic Analgesic past that needed to stop physical pain,they are not mentally ill or anything,it is normal and natural for humans to seek pleasure.
Are you interested in Opioid euphoria?,Opioids are not universally addictive,I am not too bad either,I like the euphoria but get sick(bored) of the feeling and end up going straught,many times I have done this,even when I am using Opioids and physically and psychologically dependent on them,I do not feel addicted or out of control.I choose when to start and when to stop and never complain!.So it is a complex issue,we are all very different in our psychological response to Opioids and Life for that matter,some peoples NEEDS seem to be greater than others,due to Genetic,social,adaptive,responsive mechanisms of coping with fear,stress,arousal,etc,etc,their requirements for god,wives,husbands,mothers,friends,fathers,children,OPIOIDS,etc, far exceed others and yet some bravely do it alone without any such LUXURIES.
The Doctors are doing a VERY good Job,on one hand the patients demands an Opioid because of pain and the Doctor feels compelled to relieve their patients pain,on the other hand they have a hoard of patients whom they know are not in much pain anymore but keep coming back for more.Then they have to read about how the Opioid wrecked the persons life(on forums like this) and that they cannot get off it,etc,etc.Do we blame the Doctor,Opioid or Patient or society OR all,maybe combinations of the above,in my humble opinion the patient is responsible for the escalation of dosage and the refusal to go through the Withdrawals and feel good again,so they spend their lives trapped.Some even blame the addictive nature of the drug,as opposed to their own addictive personality.It is getting to the point that Doctors are relucant to prescribe Opioids to anybody even those in obvious severe pain because so many people simply `refuse` to stop using them once prescribed,they say they have an illness called addiction and that the Opioid gave it to them,but in the end it boils down to going through the pain of Withdrawal and reclaiming your life.My advice to people is stop complaining,get off the Opioids if you do not "NEED" them,and get on with your life,because people who are in actual REAL PHYSICAL PAIN are now having problems getting pain relief,because of your ACTIONS.Their are therapies, antidepressants,neuroleptics,antianxiety agents and a host of more appropriate medications and treatments for people with addictive personalities ie borderline personality disorders or Neurotic/Psychotic disorders who are self medicating with Opioids.

[PS >>>>Annie]

I experienced this phobia upon awakening from the anesthesia.  They had me on very low doses of pain meds and couldn't release me because vitals were out of wack due to the pain.  Then I was sent home w/ Lortab 5/500 which is very mild relief for the type of surgury that took place.  I passed out several times and would vomit and gag from the severe pain I was experiencing(for 3 days), nevertheless, "Doc says sorry this is all I can prescribe."  So as the pain decreases, my medication is helping.  I fear the road ahead.  This battle will always be a part of my life.  Very sad I tell you.
The surgury was a complete success, but I rate the after care at  "O".
Thank you for making people aware of the abuse and what the end result is.  I am sure that I speak for many.
Annie

[cindi]

Annie,  I hope you are feeling better....This really literally makes me sick....why did this doc tell you that is all he could prescribe.  That is such bull ****...I went through this after a horrible c-section.   Darvocet.....that was ****...I told him I needed something stronger  so he gave me T#3's  then finally Vicodin regualar strength.  Thank God your pain is lessening....God does work in mysterious ways.  Ohhhh  I wish I was your nurse....This totally infuriates me,   My stepmom had some major surgery today  a hernia and a large tumor that was wrapped around her colon  the size of a grapefurit  they did the surgery and sent her home...What are we coming to?  The care people are receiving anymore is **** also.  Take care and feel better  Send me maik if you want to talk.....Love to all   cindi

[spook]

Exactly,and look who suffers THE MOST,the innocent like you,Withdrawals are nothing compared to what you are going through,I have tried to explain the Doctors dilemma and the addicts,these drugs CAN destroy peoples lives,but SOME not all Doctors need their arse kicked,I would actually kick his if I was in the USA,could not care if I got arrested or not.

[Andy]

Hi,

sorry I haven't posted recently, I have had a nightmare time!
My GP doesn't like the idea of using constant morphine slow release and has said that basically I should stop messing around and have my eye removed! Great ha!

I felt so much preasure to have the eye removed but I thought why should I let him push me around, he doesn't know what it's like and how useful the light perception is. And I also know that removing the eye might not stop the pain as it is a neuropathic condition. The stupid doctor was going to cut me off of my Dihydrocodeine tartrate which i'm taking 240 - 360 mg a day, and not replace it with anything. Since I have been taking it for 18 months then I can only imagine the withdrawl syndrome.

I am now changing doctors so that I can have someone who is willing to work with the pain specialist/psyciatrist/psycologist who all are willing to support me in my decision. They all feel that Morphine will make my life a lot more bareable because at the moment i am finding it so difficult to live. I know that Morphine helps the pain because I have been using it at night for 6 months to reduce the pain enough to sleep. But it is taking so long to get the change from Dihydrocodeine to Morphine sorted (about 5 weeks so far) that I am getting really frustrated.

Sorry about the length of this post
Best wishes to everyone
Andy

[PS >>>>Annie]

First of all...sorry you had to go through this.  You made the right decision in finding a new doctor.  My Gp was giving me pain meds till I could have the plate removed, but would have wheeled me into surgury, himself, if he could.  He didn't like the idea of prescribing pain meds so that I could get my life in order.  He wanted my problem fixed, so there would be no more reason to prescribe, never mind the fact that I will be in pain for the rest of my life anyway.  
Are there strict drug laws in the UK??  Does it effect a physicians decision making process, as it does here in the U.S.??
I'm glad you had that situation turned around.  Just remember, when it comes to narcotic pain medications...most doctors are looking out for themselves.  Don't ever let them make a decision for you.  We have to fight for our right to be included in the decision making process of our plan of care.

Good to hear from you,

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

I had to giggle.....when reading your reply.  I'd gladly give you his address...lol.....I'd like to give 'em all a little kick myself....right in the EGO......lol.  Thank you...
Annie

[spook]

In the PAST,I have used Dihydrocodeine about 3 times per week in single doses of 180mg for 6 months,and on a separate occassion I have used Morphine IV 30mg;3x per day (every day) for 6 months.Heres the weird thing,THE DIHYDROCODEINE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS WERE MUCH WORSE and the dose of Morphine 30mg IV 3x day(90mg) is equal to about 300mg Morphine orally per day,which is(theoretically) equal to about 1800mg of dihydrocodeine per day,(10x the equivalent dose and I got 10x more stoned off the Morphine IV)NOW I will point out that,that dose of dihydrocodeine 1800mg if you did take it even in divided doses WOULD KILL YOU no matter what your tolerance.
Anyway you will need around 60mg of Morphine Daily(maybe more) ORALLY to substitute for the Dihydrocodeine,you are currently using.
And the really crazy thing is You should never use Dihydrocodeine in doses such as you have been given and to do it for long periods of time is complete Doctor incompetence.you should not exceed 180 mg per day and it should never be used long term.Find yourself a REAL Doctor.Morphine is an Incredibly good drug and very quick and easy to get over if you become addicted,whereas dihydrocodeine is a freaking nightmare,no actually,its worse at least you can wake up from a nightmare.I will keep an `eye out` for further posts from you and good luck.

[Andy]

I have never come across not exceeding 180 mg per day. (There is no paracetamol/tylenol in it, just Dihydrocodeine) Why should you not exceed this dose? The doctors seem to prefer me on the Dihydrocodeine to the Morphine and to be honest the morphine is a far better drug for killing the pain. Maybe thinking about it morphine does not have a ceiling to its effects, Dihydrocodeine above 240 mg a day has a ceiling to analgesic effect or so I have read.

[spook]

Ok,OK the "ceiling" dose varies amongst all individuals,I get side effects and no increased analgesia around 180mg(single oral dose) and you can handle 240mg(divided doses).It is not absolute.
What is known for sure is that it is the demethylation of Dihydrocodeine to Dihydromorphine that mainly contributes to its analgesic effects.The Enzyme(cyp2d6) required to do this will become progressively depleted from your liver and as a consequence a tolerance will occur rapidly.Morphine does not require "this" `specific` enzyme and although its bioavailability is around 23%(oral)it enzymatic metabolizing systems,do not contribute to Tolerace greatly,in fact continued Oral use can increase bioavailability.(first pass systemic bioavailability)
Dihydrocodeine is available OTC in Australia,in a compound tablet 7.5mg/300mg Aspirin,easily removed by dissoving in water and filtering.
Could you tell me if what you are taking is known as DF118 and the strength of tablets and what schedule they are in?.
Thankyou in advance.

[Andy]

The Dihydrocodeine Tartrate is known as DF118 in the UK, They come in 30 mg strength. Also they do not contain any other active ingrediance.

[Andy]

P.S.

I forgot to say that they are in Schedule II

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I suppose that I could look this information up but what is the difference between plain codiene and dihydrocodiene?  My brother-in law gets 8mg codiene and aspirin compound from Canada and gave me a rather large amount of this about two years ago.  I wasn't really impressed with the stuff and we ended up taking it like any OTC pain reliever. We just kept the bottle on the kitchen table along with all the other normal OTC meds. I've had pure codiene before and found it to be pretty awful stuff.  Maybe I'm allergic to it?  J.B.

[spook]

Codeine(3-methylmorphine)
Dihydocodeine(7,8-Dihydro,3-Methylmorphine)-DF118
18mg of DF118 is Equivalent in Analgesic Potentcy to 30mg Codeine.
Heres the REAL difference,saturation of the 7,8 double bond (Alkene)increases blood brain permiability(more lipid soluble),resulting in more rapid affect and greater potency(less enterohepatic recycling and thus metabolic degradation),however it also changes receptor binding affinity and localization in SOME regional areas,resulting in a Qualitative improvement as well,thus with DF118; SWEETER euphoria and more SEDATION.A lot of these qualitative changes are linked to receptor regional localization specificities in  Limbic entities like the Mamilary body,and Olfactory turbercle,thus the "TASTE" is better.Do not expect to find this information in any old Medical Text,this is cutting edge research,most not published yet.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for the info.  It sounds like the dihydrocodiene is similar to hydrocdone but I'm no chemist.  Drug laws are very strange!  You say that this is OTC in Australia, in the UK it is schedule II and in the USA it would probably be schedule III.  I guess the Tylenol content has something to do with that?  In my own state, you can still buy codiene cough syrup OTC but it is RX only in most other states.  I remember a pharmacist telling me several years ago that he thought Vicodin would go OTC in a few years!  Hah,hah!

I'd sure like to know where that island is that I could go on a chemical holiday.  I've been fighting my pain for so long that I feel I need "the island".  J.B.

[spook]

Yes Dihydrocodeine(DF118) is very similar to Hydrocodone also known as-(dihydrocodeinone)but as you can see the Hydrocodone has a Ketone group ie ends in "one" NOT "ine",this ketone group on the #6 OH of (DF118)increases potency by a factor of 8 to Codeine and of course `qualitativ`e increases make for a much cleaner,sweeter more lucid euphoria yee ha!!!!!.
Doses below for non-tolerant ,but NOT Opioid naive individuals!!
1.So a single dose of 300mg of Codeine(ORAL) give a high,pretty crappy really.
2.180mg Dihydrocodeine(aspirin removed)single(ORAL)gives not a bad little tickle.
3.40mg of Dihrocodeinone(IV)or even Oral provides a `very` nice feeling,not quite good enough to devote your life to it.
4.10mg Diacetylmorphine(Heroin)(IV)is a bit better than 3. but nothing to write home about(or phone ET about).
5.30mg Oxycodone provides better rush than Heroin (IV)10mg,30mg Orally,rapidly acting nice rush better than 3.brief effect.
6.Oxymorphone 3mg (IV) better rush than Heroin,orally try 10 mg excellent,relatively brief~4hrs
7.(DESIGNER DRUG SERIES RESEARCH ONLY)(14-hydroxy,7,8-Dihydro,3-acetyl,6-morphinone)2mg (IV)instant obsessional addiction,"threatened"homicidal acts to get supplies after a single dose,absolute ectasy,profound change in meaning and purpose of life,makes XTC look like Codeine is to Heroin,very dangerous,incredibly addictive.Not RECOMMENDED "EVER" even under strict supervision.
========================(Infinity)=============(life/death)======
First we must realize no man or woman is an island and second we must not burn our bridges behind us,I found a Paradise in Lombok east of Bali in indonesia,I swear I got higher their naturally than from any drug,sitting back looking at a Volcano on the mainland of Lombok from my Coral atoll,all the luscious food one could want $3- US per day accomodation included,Swim in warm tropical sunshine and look at beautiful coral reefs,make love to Muslim girls,fallen pray to materialism,but they enjoy the sex and are insulted by money,they want to marry you???????/they are georgous and I never(seriously) hurt any of them,they knew I must be leaving,on a big jet plane don`t know when I will back again,so the song goes.My life could have taken many paths,But Paradise is not for me,not while people suffer,My life is written in the stars,it is where our sun came from in the first place.I have found islands of paradise in my mind,but reality calls me back to sobriety everytime,maybe their is a purpose for my life and I am slowly unravelling it,it was so simple,thats why I could not see it.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Laughing....smiling.....grinning....."Oh what words of experience!"  Life is a journey and an experience un-folding, interpreted in our own unique minds.  If only we could all "SEE" as some do.  
You truly possess a gift.  Anyone  reading your memoirs, can "SEE" this.  I would love to set before you on the day you realize your "true-calling", when...where... and how...Only remains to be seen in the times ahead.  You are ascending...the direction is ahead.  Keep seeking, proving, and experiencing.  Life is only in the blink of an eye.....In God's Time!  Our purposes will be revealed in His time.  Not ours...right JB??

Annie

[spook]

The old testament is truly the words of god,my task may be in the transliteration to the benefit of some humans,god only knows?,I just have a compass in my head and it always points to the benefit of all,in the long term,in the future.
I shall/have sown a seed and future generations may reap the harvest.My life is not important,other than for this purpose.
Note,this has never happened before,they cannot stop what I have started now,the truth has become lies,but the seed of knowledge,I have sown,the doubt in our minds,will eventually burst forth such that the truth that it encapsulates turns lies to stone and their is no turning back except to peer upon your own death.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I guess I said that once.  In God's time, not ours!  I'm only human and sometimes I forget. I sit here and think about all the things I want to do everyday only to be let down by my body's illness.  I get so disappointed when I get tired so easily these days!  It's hard to even sit and express my thoughts anymore.  I don't even know when I'm making sense because of all the meds I have to take.  Please pray for me because I've asked God for too much already and don't even know what's in store for me next.  I'm afraid of death but I know it is on the way.  I've never felt like this before. I don't want to go,yet. Pain,weakness and exhaustion are distorting my senses and spirit.  J.B.

[spook]

It really sounds like you need to stop fighting againced the Painkillers,take enough so you feel better,and deal with Addiction and with your illnessness as best as you can make the Doctors perform,you are run down and depressed at the moment,I am not sure exactly what you are taking but get somemore into you and feel good for a while,I told you I think ,once,that I was 10 seconds from killing myself before I asked for gods help and the spiritual part was uplifting enough to carry me,through,but I only asked once.It is an emergency thing to me,please do not be afraid of death as only the body/brain dies the consciousness persists,that is your soul and your low spirits are from depression it effects how you emotionally feel your soul,you can rise above it.
We all eventually die and if you are pain free,at the time,it is a beautiful experience,the beginning of a new life,in a new body.trust me I know.We are all one,just separated by our bodies.
If you cannot get adequate pain control,its not like I can send you a letter(package) or something,is it?,that is not a long term solution,I think you will feel a bit better soon,hang there mate,the sun will shine again soon.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Listen and Listen well (or see in this case!)  I have bowed before God on my hands and knees many times.  I have always said.."this will be the last time I beg you!"  He answered..by granting me what I wanted.  There were also times...when I prayed for something and he also answered, but events didn't unfold as I wished, nevertheless, I got my result.  Not sure if I am making any sense here.  
About death.  JB..I wish you had the assurance that I feel.  I am not afraid to die, and often pray for my time.  My children are young and this is why I hold on to life.  My human side fears only "HOW", but never when, or why.  I live for the day I will meet my maker, and he looks into my eyes/soul and says..."You have known Me."...Well done.  I look at the agony all around me, and also live it....I feel for what you and Marty are going through, I listen to the World News, and tears run down my face and sometimes anger.  I say Lord how much longer....How much longer???  We will not know the day nor the hour, but will know when the season is upon us.  There is so much wrong in this world, but we were left to our own devices...and sometimes..WE suffer.  I know of some great teachers and end time prophecy experts...If you are interested I will post them.  You may have them airing on cable or satelite.
I feel deeply... what you are going through...I can relate, believe me.  I will pray for you.....I am glad that you are able to post, even feeling as you do.  We are your friends and we are here for you........You have given so much to us already.  Hang in there JB!.... I
I will post a special verse for you.....(I have it saved in my computer)...when I locate it.  When I read it...It gives me peace and great joy.  All of this I have stated here...gives me my assurance...the times, scripture, end time prophecy, pain, love,...etc.... etc.

We love you and Marty!
Annie (:

[PS >>>>Annie]

THIS TOO SHALL PASS

If I can endure for this minute whatever is happening to me, No matter how heavy  my heart is or how dark the moment may be-

If I can remain calm and quiet whith all the world crashing about me, secure in the knowledge God loves me
When everyone else seems to doubt me -
If I can but keep on believing what I know in my heart to be true, that darkness will fade with the morning and that this will pass away, too-

Then nothing in life can defeat me for as long as this knowledge
remains I can suffer whatever is happening, for I know God will break all the chains that are binding me tight in the darkness
And trying to fill me with fear-
For there is no night without dawning
And I know that my morning is near.

Helen Steiner Rice

Love,

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

BEATITUDES
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.  Blessed are they wich do hunger and thirst after righteousness:  for they shall be filled.  Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.  Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.  Blesssed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.  Blessed are they wich are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manor of evil against you falsely for my name sake.  Rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
KJB 5:3-12
Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You two are wonderful people!  I really was down in the depths of despair lately, mainly because of my wife's health problems.  She was supposed to start chemotherapy again this week.  It was postponed again for various reasons until June.  

I thought that I had a handle on my own pain issues and went off my meds for several days.  I do that once in a while to make sure I don't get too strung out.  I won't be making that mistake again!  My doctor has changed my script to give me more relief as of yesterday.  Strangely, I hadn't asked him for more during my visit last week.  I never even brought the subject of pain up.

Maybe God is taking care of me afterall!  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....It seems as though your morning came.  God did break those chains.  And many are praying for you two.  I'm sure there will be positive results.

Love,

annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, a little more is given me each day to savor.  I had a long talk with my wife this morning about her cancer.  She's a very strong one... especially when the whole family is panicked and demanding that she see even more doctors.  The truth is that her doctor is part of a large group of oncologists that are working on her cancer.  Luckily the tumors are on the peripherals and not yet causing any marked health problems.  There's no pain or breathing problems or weight loss.  We will wait until the doctor is ready to begin treatment again however long that is.

As for me, a few night's of good sleep and painfree days have done wonders. Thank you for your support!  J.B.

[cindi]

JB, I am still pryaing for you and Marty,  God be with you both, he does work in mysterious way,  and to JB, Annie and Spook,  What wonderful people you are, you are all an  inspiration to me and on days such as this when I feel like my world has come crashing down on me once again, I for some reason felt compelled to read further down the board today and I fell onto your posts.  You help more than you'll ever know    Love you guys   cindi

[spook]

Its working!.God and science can coexist.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Well of course, God created Science. lol
J.J.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Lol is right!  I still say that you and Spook are opposite sides of the same coin.  My wife and I are the same way but things usually work out for the best in spite of it.  That's life, lol!  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....How are you today???  I hope you have many bright mornings, you and your wife.  Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you two. (-:

Love,

Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It's a bright morning indeed!  Thanks for being so considerate!  I hope all is well with you, too.  Marty and I are counting our blessings and thankful for all of our friends.  What would life be like without you?  J.B.