One week off oxy- now what?

[Joebu]

Hi all, I've been chatting with a couple of people on here, and it's been great.  Just to get things out has been so therapeutic.  I joined the site last week at the end of my first day without pills.  I was on two 80 mg OxyContin plus another 60 mg (10 mg ea) of oxycodone for breakthrough.  That was the "legit" dose.  Then I would supplement it with another 90mg (30 ea) oxycodone a a day through a "friend".  I knew I had to get off; I WANTED to get off.  My biggest fear was always the withdrawals; I had quit for two weeks a few years ago when I was on a much lower dose, and it was... Well. You all know.  
So with the support of my friends and family, I took time off (I knew I couldn't work during it), did a quick taper, and prepared for the worst.  I was in such anguish after that first day, I knew I couldn't do it on my own.  Worse than the death-flu symptoms was the guilt of being completely useless around my family.  The day after joining this site, I had my wife take me to a shrink to get proper treatment.  
I've been following the doc's regimine to the letter, and quite frankly, I feel great.  
So now what? I feel terrible for everyone I've been talking to and reading about- I know what it's like tapering or just jumping off.  I feel like I'm not paying my "dues" for my years off addiction.  I know suboxone is just a substitute, and addictive, and that I will have to get off of that eventually too; but my doc assures me that a slow taper from it can be done, and it won't be anything like coming off of the oxy.  He says I will have to battle the psychological forever.  But right now, I don't feel anything but relief that they (the pills) are gone.  I know that my cravings are being artificially suppressed, but I don't miss it at all! I don't even remember what the "high" felt like (though I was at a point where I wasn't getting high anymore; I just needed them to function normally).  Now I keep wondering if some horrible craving or withdrawal feeling isn't waiting for me around the corner.  I've read about people having had trouble with suboxone, but a lot of them sound like the doc was part of the problem, or insurance.  So many are saying they were on it for years; my doc plans to start the taper after a month as long as things are going well.  Has anyone had a success story with suboxone? I'd like to hear.  Sorry for the ramble!
J

[clean_in_ks]

Sounds like you have a good plan going and are educating yourself more about subs now that you are on them.  That wasn't the case for me and I was put on WAY TOO high of a dose and jumped off of it just as ignorantly.

I commend you for what you said about sticking to what your dr advises and being totally honest....a good NEW behavior, eh?...however, have a look at this conversion chart, ok?

Conversion table other drugs equivalent to sub/bupe  

Jul 24, 2008  - 8 comments


#Pain Killer Equivalent Doses (Oral)
1.2mg.............Buprenorphine (Bupe)
200mg............Codeine (Tylenol 2, 3, 4, etc)
30-60mg.........Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) (orally it = morphine, IV/IM/insuffilated it's 2x as strong)
100mg............Dihydrocodeine
30mg..............Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Lorcet, etc)
7.5mg.............Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
37.5µg............Fentanyl (not sure on this one, anyone know the oral dose equivalence for Fentanyl?)
4mg................Levorphanol (Dromoran)
300mg............Meperidine (Demerol)
10-20mg.........Methadone
30-60mg.........Morphine
20mg..............Oxycodone (Oxycontin, Percocet)
10mg..............Oxymorphone (Numorphan)
200-300mg.....Propoxyphene (Darvocet)
150mg............Tramadol (Ultram, Ultracet)

This is from one of our older member's journals that I found REALLY helpful.  It's "approximate", of course...but helpful.

Maybe if you see this BEFORE your dr visit today you will be more equipped to discuss why you feel 24 mg/day is too much sub.  I couldn't AGREE MORE that it is too much.  Let's just figure at your worst...2 (80 mg) oxycontin = 160 mg + 60 mg of oxycodone + 90 mg more = a total of 310 mg right?  And if 1.2 mg of sub is equivalent to 20 mg of oxy....the 24 mg of sub the dr has you on is like ingesting 480 mg.  Hope you followed that...LOL....and with subs.....less is needed.  You are just covering your pain/opiate receptors with the bupe.....and you said in another post that you are "comfortable" right now.  

Just trying to help....cause at my worst I was on 300 mg/day of hydrocodone and 30 mg is equal to 1.2 bupe/sub.  My wacky dr put me on 16 mg and that is equivalent to 480 mg of hydro!!!  WAY TOO MUCH for me....I was sick and doped up....and then I jumped off at 16 mg of sub too.
Hopefully you will continue to educate yourself as you go and won't make the same mistakes I did.  We have a member here on the forum that says subs are the second strongest opioid out there....second to fentanyl.  

[Jinx_777]

just remember not all doctors are aware of how subs work.  they take a short class on them, but by no means are they experts.

i am worried your doc may fit into that category starting you out on such a high dose.  

read, read, read.  educate yourself as much as possible

[Joebu]

Wow, thank you all for such great thoughts and advice.  I'm so glad I joined this site. I plan on bringing up all these concerns with the doc today.  
Ariley- thank you; I do have the aftercare all planned out, along with strong family support.  All my other doctors are aware and behind me, and my "friend" is no longer an issue. I am very strongly motivated, I was never part of any kind of negative "lifestyle" to miss, and I am positively reinforced by my lucidity around my family.  So hopefully I have a good chance.  
Mlynn and motye- yes, the doc put me on 24 mg (8x3), and even before I started reading up on the details I felt like at LEAST the third pill wasn't necessary.  I plan on bringing this up today, but he is VERY rigid about following his treatment. My fear is that if he tells me to stick to what he prescribed, and I reduce on my own anyway, even that one lie; though a positive, non-harmful one; will derail my oath to not lie about drugs anymore. I will let you all know what he says.
Thank you all again for your candor.
J  

[ariley13]

Hi there. I just wanted to add my support and my opinion on this. Subs can be a great tool for people who have very hefty habits, such as yourself. That being said, they are just that, a tool. They are one piece of the big picture that is recovery. They are meant to be used short term in conjunction with aftercare so you can work on learning new, healthy coping skills and set up a good support system. If you fail to do these things, nothing will have changed once you quit the subs and you will more than likely end up right back where you started. Congratulations to you on taking steps to change your life. Please stick around and continue posting. We will be here for you throughout your journey. Good luck to you!

[motye51]

Well, i'm going to put my two cents in here in regards to the suboxone. I had a 6 yr addiction to opiates and then turned to suboxone to get off the opiates. Alot of the unsucessful stories ARE due to uninformed drs, this is true, however it is a bit of a false security. Now this is my opinion only, but i was on the suboxone for 7 yrs...it was a miracle drug, for sure. Cravings, gone, high, gone, i loved it. The trick to using subs sucessfully is staying on them the least amount of time possible and the lowest mg u can stand. I was initially started at 24 mg per day....WAY TOO MUCH! And it did seem like my dr never wanted to start the taper (not that i asked either b/c i was feeling good)...so it is a way to get trapped.
Also, when they say slow taper, they mean really, really, slow taper. Like 8mg day and cutting by 2 mg per 30 days then once your to like 1mg u then have to do a 1/2 mg for 30 days, then 1/4 mg for 30 days (like slivers)....this **** sticks to u like glue and in order to not go through the worst w/d ive ever felt, this is how u have to do it. So, my recommendation is if your going to do the sub route do it right. Subs are extremely addictive! Be very careful.

[mlynn2014]

I think you got some good advice. I was clean for five years after a nasty opiate habit of anything I could get my hands on. I used suboxone but my doctor had me on way too high of a dosage and I quit from 8mg a day. I still made it through those withdrawals to get my 5 years clean. I have recently relapsed so it's a catch 22. I had so much clean time I thought I was fine. Since this relapse wasn't years....just months of intermittent use I'm going to bite the bullet and just go cold turkey but I know when used properly suboxone can work very well. Just try to keep your dosage low and not stay on them too long. Taper off slowly. You'll be golden!

[Joebu]

Thanks for the comment and support, Ms. If this continues to work the way it has, and the doc gets me off of them soon and slowly, I can't reccomend this course of action enough.  Three days of hell instead of three weeks- I know the psychological will be tough, but the withdrawals were my biggest fear- and I've literally got none now.  It just seems too good to be true.
J

[MsHelper]

I've heard some good things about Subs. Its how 2 of my gfriends stopped taking oxi's. I heard they def take craving away but make sure to start tapering very very slowly & as soon as possible.  Congrats on this huge leap forward you've made toward sobriety! Cool...keep it up!