Open Thread

[mrmichael67]

I can't believe I actually have the opportunity to ask a question and I can't think of something to ask.  So, following in GWH's tradition, I will declare this an open thread.  I do have one question now that I think of it.  Has anyone who has chronic pain and been prescribed the Duragesic patch been able to take it every two days instead of three.  I know it is usually prescribed every three days, but it usually wears off after two.  I was just wondering if anyone's doctor has actually prescribed it for every two days.  If you can help, I thank you.  I am thinking of having my meds changed.  And, if you have a question, feel free to break into this thread.  I won't mind a bit.

[Hinkster]

I've got a question. Does anyone know what the comparison of
methadone is to other opiates in strength. I looked on that chart someone posted and could not figure it out from what they
listed. I'am still converting from codones to methadone and can
not figure out the strength values. I'am taking 30mg roxicodones
3pills four times a day. Thats 360mgs a day. What amount of
methadone should I take to equal that. I take 20mg of methadone
in three doses now and that seems way to low. I know once I have
to get off the methadone I'am dead but we figure (The Dr.s andI)
that I will be on it for life so the wd's shouln'd matter right
now. I'am just looking for equal doses. Any help? Thanks Tom

[Hinkster]

You answered my question in the previous thread. I didn't see it.
Thanks
Tom

[Hinkster]

You answered my question in the previous thread. I didn't see it.
Thanks
Tom

[mrmichael67]

You are looking at about 120mg of methadone to be somewhere in the ballpark.  The conversion isn't exact, though.  You should start a little lower and titrate upwards until the desired effect happens.  Everyone is different.  And, when converting from one opiate to another, the amount of the new opiate that you would need is often less than the equivalent amount that is suggested.

[Willowman]

Need some good advise from those that have been there.

I currently take a large amount of pills every day for many different medical conditions. The one that concerns me and has for many years is the Hydrocodone. I have been on and off of this drug for about 20 years, but the last five has been really bad. Arthritis is taking over by body and I really need some form of pain killer.  I have taken all the wonder drugs and still take the usaul anti-inflamatories but they dont do the trick. On top of the Arthrits (Reiters Syndrome)I also have Poly-Myalgia Arthritica and a couple of bolts in by back with constant pain in the lower back.

My Hydrocodone use has went to about 340 7.5's per month, and I could take more if I had them. I need to get rid of these but see no way out. I would like to cut down but have had no sucess. The doctor would like me to stop taking them all together, but I need to move around and without them it gets imposible. I am tired of being treated like a Druggie when I get my medications, I know I dont need as many as I am getting but cant seem to find anyway to taper down.  I go through withdrawls every now and them if I take too many and have to wait for my refill. They dont scare me anymore but they can sure be hard.

It seems when in withdrawl all the pains come back twice as bad as they used to be.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON CUTTING DOWN OR ALTERNATIVES TO THE HYDROCODONE. I considered the patch but it is a triplicate drug and too expensive.

[1fortheroad]

hi there - i'm sorry to hear about the pain you have to suffer.  however, the amount of vics you are taking is, at some point, going to destroy your liver.  have you talked with your doc about alternatives?  what about the duresic (sp?) patch?  you just put one on and it delivers medication to you for about 3 days...they come in different strengths, and it would break the whole pill popping cycle for you.  talk with your dr.?  

i know what you mean about being looked at as a junkie.  when i first started complaining about the migraines i was getting, and i was sick and tired of taking a bunch of beta blockers and whatnot that didn't work, i asked for something stronger and my doc gave me the lecture.  opiates were prescribed to me, however, they were given out very sparingly.  never enough to help.  i really think that if my original doc hadn't been so paranoid, and he had really thought about my options for pain, i would have been given something that controlled them and i wouldn't be where i am right now.  can't go back right?  

i wish you luck.  if your dr. doesn't listen to you, i would suggest looking around for another one who will - not dr. hopping, just finding one who will do the right thing....if one exists out there.  stay in touch....

[roro]

Hello angst, I POSTED HIGHER SO THAT I CAN GET MORE COMMENTS.  i AM ON MY THIRD DAY OF COLD TURKEY WITHDRAWALS FROM 32 VICOPROPHEN A DAY....TODAY IS THE WORSTTTTT  CRAMPS WELL YOU KNOW PLEASE SOME INPUT HERE IS NEEDEDE.  GOODTHING IT IS SUNDAY AND THE DOC IS NOT IN I WOULD CALL

[marsmom]

I've been reading this forum for over a month and I am so impressed with all the candid and 'real' life experiences.

My son has been using Oxy for over a year and we only recently found out what it was. We knew that he wasn't himself. He and his girlfriend have been in extreme fights that we thought were caused by alcohol abuse. It turns out she also was on OXY and the fights were always about money. Their relationship is trashed as far as I can tell. There is no 'love' just drug related conversation and interaction with our family is minimal.  They are inconsistent....on min. kind the next screaming vulgarities at each other.  There seems to be a codependency on both their parts.

He is 22 and lives at home and recently got a good job. He has incurred many bills and is trying to pay them off. When all this came out about the Oxy and how much he and his girlf. spent, we realized how addicted he was and why he couldn't keep up with his bills.  

Because of the excessive fighting, vulgarity and late hours, cooking everthing in sight, leaving food, dishes, utensils filthy when they come in and complete disregard for the rest of our family, who is usually sleeping. We have given him an ultimatum. He was to either go to a rehab or try to withdraw himself. He tried it himself and has failed. We are now giving him one day to 'decide' whether he wants to live here (free), stay away from girlf., and go to a rehab or leave our home. We have other children (a 14 yr. old, a 20 yr. old and a grandchild on the way.) His bills are enormous and he really has no money because of this addiction.

We have tried to help him out financially, but we are also tapped out.

In all your experience, have we given him the right choices? Watching our vibrant son nodding off is heartbreaking. We love him and want him with us, but not at the expense of our whole family disrupted on a daily basis.

It is really hard for me to use 'tough love'. We never know what or 'who' we will be dealing with from day to day.

Please help, you all are a blessing and this forum has informed me more than any doctor or rehab facility I've talked to.

Thank you.

[Sturgil]

I have been done this road before. I am about to back down it again. I admire you as I hope you will admore me on Thursday when I kick it. I take 12 to 18 10/500 plus 2 Somas each time. Try this: Hot baths, Ben Gay, Ensure Plus and read the book of James in the Bible. I a far from cleann but it is coming and he is preparing me for July 4th. Why July 4th? So I can take the days off to recover. Do alot of walking and praying. I will need you next week. Do not give in you are almost there. God Bless you and write if you need anything.


Sturgil

[roro]

THANK YOU FOR POSTING...  I ONLY HOPE I CAN HELP YOU NEXT WEEK...  I AM GOING TO TAKE YOUR ADVICE AND THANKS AGAIN... YOUR INPUT HELPS REALLY IT DOES

[roro]

I AM A MOM AS WELL AND I WAS DIAG. WITH MIGRAINES AND ENDOMETRIOS AND HAVE BEEN PUT ON OVE 500 PILLS A MONTH THEY JUST KEPT GIVING THEM TO ME.  i AM USING THESE NEXT FEW DAYS TO STAY CLEAN BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU...  I KNOW YOU HAVE NO IDEA BUT THE WITHDRAWAL PAIN IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN GO THROUGH....  HELP HIM AND DONT GIVE HIM A CHOICE JUST GET HIM IN REHAB NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE....

[Hinkster]

Thanks that was exactly what I was looking for.
Tom

[TMP]

I have been down the Oxy road which started as a legitimate use for pain from pancreatitis and endometriosis. After 9 months on huge doses of Oxy, it was taking my life away. I asked for help,got admitted into rehab in Dec of 2000. I spent 10 days there. 5 in detox with one trip to the er for non stop vomiting and another 5 trying to work through the program so I could go home. I then spent another 90 days in outpatient rehab. Your son needs to be in rehab and after detoxing it will not stop there. It was six weeks before I could eat without throwing up. He is throwing away is life and he is so lucky to have a Mom who cares. It doesn't stop there though, I myself had a huge surgery in April and although my Doctor's tapered my pain meds, I just spent three days feeling like ****, freaking about what it was going to be like. Today is a good day, I hope you can get your son some help. By the way, I have been lurking at in this forum for over 2 years and feel as if I know you. thanks for all that you say and do.

[angst]

Hey, it is Ava, I worked the midnight shift last night so i'm late getting at the computer.  I also had intractable vascular headaches which tended to focus in my left temporal area and eye.
I've found 1/2 cup coffee and a couple of benadryl and a couple of ibuprofen works wonders.  I also consciously relax my trapezoid muscle. It is right were your neck extends to your head.  The topical agents work great too, like was said.  
I had endo for years, with three surgeries, the doctor wanted a biopsy.  I had a surgical total hyst at 36, which I am now.  I also am a mom.  I could only have one child.  
Hot baths, benadryl and ibuprofen with prayer will get you through today.  If it gets worse go to the ER.  They are used to treating addicts.  Initially, tell them you have a virus or migraine.  When the doc comes in, ask him if you could talk to him confidentially without the nurse.  Then tell him the truth.
Tell him you do not want drugs, but that you are in withdrawals.
He is likely to help you out with a cocktail of meds.  Take good care of the meds so they last you thoughout your detox.  Good luck and blessings, Ava

[TimG14]

Hinster,
   The web site to calculate opiate doses is:
www.stat.washington.edu/TALARIA/calculatorjava.html

[TimG14]

Willoman,
    You mat want to try methadone. Go to the opiate calculatr website and see how much methadone would equal your daily dase of hydrocodone.The website is:www.washington.stat/TALARIA/calculatorjava.html
   The bad thing about hydrocodone is the acetaminophen. Every tab of hydrocodone equals 500 to 650 mg of acetaminophen.Acetaminophen is very hard on the liver.Also methadone is cheap in comparison to many high strength opiods, but it has nothing in it but methadone. Hope this helps.
                                  God Bless & Peace Out..Tim G.

[angst]

I may get blasted for this one, but inpatient rehab sounds like the best thing for him.  He is far into his addiction.  I do not know if a detox program of buprenex or methadone would work.  I know he has a good job.  Most employers want to help out if they are told what is going on by the employees.  
If he's never been to rehab, it would be a real wake up call.  I went to three.  I finally settled on methadone maintenance and detox with NA.  NA is a great support group.  You have to be open minded.  Many people never get help until they hit "ROCK BOTTOM".  I hate to tell you that.
My addiction took me to places on the street where I could have been abused and killed.  Oxy can kill.  It is time released, so by crushing the pills, he is getting far more than the dose on the pill.  
My addiction lasted from 1993-2001.  I am 36 years old, and many days I feel 60 years old.  Help him if he wants out.  If he does not, he will have to bottom out.  Good luck and blessings.

[tex3]

Hi Ror, hope you're feeling some relief. You've made it throught he worst part and I bet you'll feel better, at least somewhat, each day. For me the worst symptom after day three was the shooting, electrical pains in my arms. It was a terrible burning sensation. But that too passed. The stomach takes the longest. And you will face lethargy. But you've made it through three days of hell and I commend you. Hang in there!

About the vascular headaches, I had them terribly for weeks after detox. Someone here told me to try benadryl and it saved my life, as I couldn't afford Imitrex and almost OD'd on aspirin one memorable day.

Hoping everyone is having a good Sunday, tracy

[tex3]

I wrote back to you on email. I have to get off for a few hours but will check in later. Going to apply for a part-time job tomorrow, I swear! I've just been really enjoying not working. Crazy since I was a workaholic before.
I do have a question. Is it safe for me to still take benadryl regularly? By that I mean several times a week, sometimes every day. It actually helps with the headaches more than Imitrex, and I can't afford that. The headaches seem better since we moved, so maybe they were from mold in the house or just stress from that environment. I also still take Excedrin PM to sleep at night. I know I should stop that, but one vice at a time, huh? Seriously, it's better than staying awake half the night and then taking care of three kids zombed out. But since I'm also on Tegretol for seizures, is this toxic to my liver? I know I'm supposed to get liver checks but can't afford that right now, either. I worry every time I take that damn pill, but I'm more afraid of having another seizure! Just one more way I screwed up my body during those years of drug abuse. Was it really ever fun? Thanks Angst and I was glad to get your message and see you're doing so well. Been thinking of you....
tracy

[mrmichael67]

Here is a nice and easy chart:  http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.htm

Here is a dosage converter that is easier to use: http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm

I hope these are of use to you.

[roro]

Tex, I am having a better day today.  I found amedicine inmy cabinet for stomach cramps...  It is dioxydine (something like that) w/ atropine...  Life saver....ever heard of this

[mrmichael67]

Just remember that most conversion charts will give a methadone dose that is way too high.  I was on a similar dose of oxycodone (oxycontin) that you are on and 120mg of methadone did the trick.  Like I said, though, everyone is different.  Your dosage might be different.  One thing to remember is that when dosing methadone for pain you might have to go on a little higher dose for it to work.  The dose it takes to keep you out of withdrawal may be no where near what you need for pain.  Like I said, start low and titrate upwards until desired analgesia is achieved.

[Hinkster]

Mike thanks pal I appreciate it.

[tex3]

Never heard of it but I'm glad it's working for you. Best thing to do now is to be upfront with your doctor about wanting to quit so they don't prescribe pain pills again. I even had to tell my doc to call the pharmacy and cancel a refill that was coming do. It was for 140 pills and I knew I'd get weak and want them. I did, too, and was glad it was canceled. Also told my gyn. Removing the temptation was important.
I think you're through the worst and can start focusing on recovery. Don't be upset if you still feel shitty for awhile. You'll go through a whole gauntlet of feelings. Probably have very little energy. The recipe helps for that, tons. Keep on posting and let me know how you are, and congratulations!
tracy

[ecampbe3]

Hi all -

Can anyone answer my issues - I am suffering from severe chonic pain from arthritis.  I am on Vicodin now (ranging from 1000 to 3000 mg per day).  I am not emotionally addicted, however I get anxious and irritable when I am not taking as much.

A trip to a pain doc - now I have been perscribed 10mg of Oxy plus 150mg of Effexor RX.  It seems that you need to get ahead of the pain to control it, keep a steady dosage in your system with a longer halflife med.  Vicodin has a short half life also kills the liver over time, and by the time I take it, I am already in pain and can't seem to control the pain thereafter.

What I have been reading here scares me.  Why does someone take Oxy or Vicodin if they are not in pain?  I have yet to get any great feelings (other than pain relief) with the Vicodin.  What can I expect with the Oxy?  

Can anyone tell me - do they think that Vic and Oxy mess up concentration?  I seem to believe that Vicodin does (first hand experience) however, I am being told that following 2 weeks of steady dosage, these meds are fine on the head.

What has been your experience?

[mrmichael67]

The reason people take it if they aren't in pain is to get high.  The same reason people drink to get drunk.  There are those that were taking the medication for real pain, but became either addicted or physically dependent to the meds and are afraid to detox because it is quite miserable.  Your doctor was right on about pain.  Vicodin is a terrible chronic pain med.  So is percocet or any other short acting opioid.  And, pain is easier to treat if you keep it at bay than it is to treat it after it is already there.  And, the longer acting opioids do a good job of acheiving that.....most of the time.  If you lose concentration from the oxy, it should not last long.  The side effects of opioids usually wear off rather quickly (usually 5 to 7 days).  The one side effect that tends to not go away is constipation.  That can be relieved with a senna or bisocodyl laxative.  Milk of magnesia works wonders also.  Do not be afraid of your medication.  If you are in pain and need the medication, take it.  Judging from the amounts of the vicodin you were taking, I would say you need it.  Is the oxy helping you at all?  One thing I am curious about is the dose of oxy your doctor put you on.  Ten mg is small compared to the amount of vicodin you were taking.  If it is working, then that is wonderful!

[mrmichael67]

As far as getting high or feeling a buzz on the meds:  A lot of people do get a buzz when they first start on opioid therapy.  That side effect will go away.  Over time, you will not notice anything besides your pain going away....hopefully.  If a person is out to get high, they just take more, when needed or the time comes that they need more.

[mrmichael67]

Just one more thing:  What is up with the mg of Vicodin you said you were taking?  Is that the tylenol mg or the hydrocodone mg?  Just in case you don't know, if the number on your pill bottle says 10/325, the first number is the hydrocodone mg per pill and the second number is the acetaminophen (tylenol) mg per pill.

[oh please already]

hi ! long time no type. i have been lurking for the last few months,giving the next junkie his turn.   MRMICHAEL  yes, the patch can be dosed every 48 hours instead of every 72 but most doc will try to increase the doseage first before redusing the time intervil. Just make sure you read the literture that comes in the box- its much more complete then even the PDR. One of my doctors even wrote for Q24 as i was having skin reactions but too bad for me, my skin was allergic. One thing to note is that the patch has 2 peaks- 1 after 32 hours or so and then after DAY # 4 so most docs will make you wait two cycles(patches) before increasing the med. zThe patch has a fentyal adhesive as well as fentyal in the resorvir and really  works on a passive transport of high concentrations to low,(think high school ) so it must be on tightly and moved to a new spot each time or delivery will be messed up, as it is stored in the upper skin layers then to fatty tissue. They tended to fall off all the time-call the 800 number on the insert and get the special overlay- taping the edges breaks the adhesion and also screws up the transport  hope that helped.   and GWH   radioboy was a loser- ignore the idiot

[mrmichael67]

Thank you.  I have been on the patch many times and I just never get three days out of it.  I know that Jannsen does say that it can be worn every 48, but my previous doctor wouldn't budge.  I have changed it every two days on my own and it worked great.  But, running out early is a problem there.  They usually won't let you refill ten days early in most places.  As far as peaks go, when I changed it every two, my levels remained constant throughout the entire time I was wearing them.  The only peak I experienced when doing the two day thing was when I first started and they first kicked in.  With the three day dosage, my levels would go down and I would be back in pain every third day.  I would put the new patch on and wait an additional 12 to 18 hours for it to kick in.

[mrmichael67]

Jannsen gives you tegaderm clear bandages.  I buy them at Eckerd and they work great.  I called the number once and the girl on the phone wasn't very pleasant and wouldn't budge.  Told me, "you must hold it down for 30 seconds when you put it on".  No....really?  Anyway, I said screw it.  My mom is an RN in an or.  She used to bring some home from work every now and then.  Thanks again.

[tex3]

Hi Me! I was wondering where you were. You sound great! How are you doing? How's life with hubby? Update, please!

[ThruBeinCool]

Hi all,
its been a couple of months since I posted. I've tried quitting and failed a few times since you last heard from me. This time I'm doing good. I'm on day 2 of nothing! From 20+ vics. I'm getting downright mean about it. When the cravings are real bad, I walk around the block, that seems to help. (I'm sure the neighbors are wondering what the hell this freak is doing walking past their houses every half hour, but I just dont care) Anyway, I don't think I would have the will-power without all of you fine people. Thank you and pray for me and the wife. We really want to change our lives for the better.

[mrbari]

Hi.  I am trying to grab straws and happened to see this forum.  Very interesting inasmuch as there appears to be intellegent answers to user's questions.  My problem stems from my wife's abuse of Oxycontin.  It is MY Oxycontin!  With lower back pain, my doctor prescribed one 20 mg plus one 10 mg twice a day (total of 60 mg/day).  He also prescribed one 5/500 Tylox  (which I think is 5 mg of Oxycontin) to take 6 hours after each Oxycontin dose to fill in the 12 hour gap.  This was about 10 months ago.  It was working nicely until I started reading about the dangers involved.  I started tapering off and enduring a little of the back pain to see if I could really do without it.  Each month, I would faithfully go to the pharmacy and hand them my new prescription which the doctor would give me in postdated form.  6 months ago, I noticed that my old bottles that I had pills left over in, were empty!  It was learned that my wife had been taking my pills without my knowledge.  When I confronted her about it, she was very apologetic, but was hooked.  When she tried to stop, our world went to pieces until she could have another dose.  She now takes all of my medication (with my permission) and I only take the Tylox.  I don't know how to stop her safely.  She is wanting me to ask the doctor for an increase, but I refuse to.  The doctor also does not understand how I am getting along without an increase.  I apparently can't safely stop her ingestion of these, but I most certainly am not going to voluntarily add to it.  I found out that she started out with just a 10 mg and has gradually worked it up to the 60 mg/day she now takes.  She takes two 10's with her to work to take during the day and then has the two 20's at night.  She gets all nervous if I try to hold any back from her.  I am trying to talk her in telling her doctor about it now before it is too late (although, in my opinion, it is already too late), but she is hesitant because she can't afford to lose work to be admitted to a detox place.  She would lose her job for sure because she works for a Christian Book distributor place.  She has been trying to stop (sort of) and she starts getting sick and her legs jump a lot.  But she has not tried to outright cold turkey, only trying to wait a while before taking the next one.  I am so afraid that she is going to get used to the 60 mg and need more to the place that she will try to find an additional source behind my back.  Also, she does not want to go to the doctor because she does not want to go through all the misery she has read about in withdrawal.  At the moment, there does not seem to be a dangerous situation but I am afraid of what it is doing to her body and also where it is going to lead to if she tries to increase the dosage from another source.  She is a sensible woman but just got hooked accidently to the point that there seems to be no turning back.  I realize I could be in trouble also for allowing this, but she has said that if anyone finds out she would swear that she stole them from me, but I know that won't work.  I'm not woried about me anywhere near the worries I have about her.  The pills give her a lot of energy, which she likes.  Since I cannot talk to anyone about this, can someone here on the forum give me some sensible guidance as to the right road to take?   Thank you.

[OxyDout]

I don't know much about your relationship with your wife, HOWEVER, Your being to forgiving. Yes, you need to love her, yes you need to listen and yes you need to support her, but you can not aid her in the continuance of abusing these drugs.  #1 your in a lot of trouble if she doesn't want to stop because she REALLY has to WANT it in order for her to stop.  Once you figure out that part, you then want to think of a tapering schedule. As high as her intake sounds, its not that bad, really its not.  As far as the physical withdrawals, it can vary.  If you decide to taper, you can have her go to 50mg for a week, then to 40, then to 20 or even slower, however, tapering is nearly impossible for addicts.  If worst comes to worst, she will need to stop cold turkey, the withdrawal will include, aches, sweats, the runs, exhaustion etc..... and will last anywhere from 4-7 days then it will be done, the physical withdrawal that is, the hardest part is the mental which could last for a while.  The way I see it, and i really mean this so please give it some thought.  COME CLEAN WITH YOUR DOCTOR, tell him what happened, and ask for his help, otherwise you will go through many options besides getting help from your doctor, all of which will seem genius in theory but non which will work.  I do not mean to sound negative but through my trials and tribulations as well as hearing of others on this forum, its very difficult to get someone else clean, unless they want to be clean, and much harder without some sort of medical intravention. Please take this for what it is, and good luck, keep posting, and try to get her to post!!!!

GWH

[mrbari]

Thank you for your comments.  I feel like I am on the apex of a fence and before I jump either way, I want to be sure it's the right decision prior to being able to not having a way to return.  If I come clean with MY doctor, he's going to jump up and down and cut me off completely.  Then I would have sent my wife into hell (so I hear through people who have been there).  If she,all of a sudden,does not have any recourse, I don't know where it will lead.  I realize no one can give me a sraight and trouble-free path to follow, but I just don't want to make a mistake that I can't recover from.  I guess I am wanting to get opinions so I can decide what is best in her/my case.  To answer your concern about the relationship, we are very much in love, and thatmakes it even tougher.  I don't want to deny her, but deep down, I know I am harming her.  I'm in a pickle.  She appears energetic and happy and loving life, more than ever, but she dosen't act high and giddy, just wanting to do things and fun to be around.  I don't want to destroy that, and yet, I feel like I am destroying her.  Like you said, compared to what I have read of others, that doesn't sound like a very high dosage.  If I could keep her right there, I might condone it, but I'm fearing the need for an increase.  She says she wants to quit, but I'm not sure because I can tell she enjoys being happy-go-lucky.  Maybe there is no problem.  Maybe I am being overly cautious.  Maybe I'm foreseeing a calamity.  I've tried the tapering route, but all of a sudden she gets a bad headache, or backache, or something that requires some pain relief from Oxycontin.  BUT, I've noticed that as soon as I let her have one, the pain seems to go away within a minute!  This leads me to think that some of it is psychological.  To her, it may be real, I don't know.  I've never been around drugs before and it's all new to me.  All that is on my mind is what I have read or seen on TV about addicts going nuts, shooting up, losing their job, friends, society, meaningful life, stealing for money to buy more drugs, and then found dead in bed.  It all scares me and I don't feel like it has progressed to that point yet, but I'm sure it is at its starting point.  If I could only keep her at the 60 mg/day.  Then again, I know that's not wise either.  Anyway, you've given me an opportunity to talk to someone about it and that has helped.  I assure you, if I find an answer to this, I will post it on every forum to let other know that there is a way and help.  Thank you GWH for coming back to me.  It let me know that there is someone out there.

[OxyDout]

ok, don't take offense to this, but your wife just like all of us knows how to be deceiptful, shes lying to you, the "backaches, headaches" she says that to get the drugs from you.  And don't worry about putting her through hell by taking away the drugs because as skipper would say (skipper posts here all the time)"every junky has to come down sooner or later" shes going to go through hell at some point, make it easy and tell her it has to be done now! And don't forget, she did this to herself, she has nobody else to blame, I can't tell you how anxious I got reading your post, I didn't finish reading it because I need to write back.  I'm just telling you the truth, and please don't take offense to this, i mean no harm, i'm just being blunt.

If you keep providing her the drugs it will get worse and worse and worse, and she will keep lying, and become more and more deceiptful.  If you tell her its over and stop getting the prescription, she will have no choice, and if she gets mad at you, its not your fault, its hers, and if she takes it even further and doesn't want to be with you, then its her loss and you will be better off.  I KNOW THIS IS VERY HARSH, trust me I do, but the point is, its "IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE IF YOU KEEP LETTING HER LIE AND STEAL TO KEEP HER HABIT" you don't want to be there for that. GOOD LUCK and DON'T TAKE ANYTHING I SAY PERSONAL, JUST TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE......REMEMBER, MYSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE.............

[GOD]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I know that you are going through a HARD situation with your wife... I've had a couple family members in that exact situation (prescribed meds ending up in the wrong hands)-- obviously, you can't just "Cut her off", but my guess is that a tapering program could be the way to start (as GWH has previously suggested). you may even want to request an increase in the Meds now prescribed (as your Doctor has suggested) to build up a supply to have on hand for the taper process. I'm no doctor, but it is doable in some people to VERY SLOWLY taper off opiate medications. Wouldn't work for ME, but it is worth the try. the thing you/she must realize is that there is no painless way to do this. Whether by the SLOW (mildly painful) taper method, or a very quick and pretty painful cold turkey, something has to be done. the only way this is NOT going to be painful is if she remains on the medication in INCREASING doses.... Even then, there will come a point that the doctors will not approve any more increases...

Bless you, and I wish the best of luck in your task!
Jess

[roro]

BEING IN YOUR WIFES POSITION I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU NEED TO GET HER OFF OF THEM.  THIS HAS TO BE DONE THE RIGHT WAY THOUGH.  FIRST SHE HAS TO WANT TO.....I GUESS I WOULD START BY TELLING HER THAT THE DR. IS GOING TO BE TAKING YOU OFF OF THESE REAL SOON AND THAT YOU NEED TO START TAPERING.  TAPERING DOESNT WORK FOR AN ADDICT AT LEAST NOT ALL THE TIME  IT IS REAL HARD....  YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG AND HAND THEM TO HER AND TAPEFR THEM FOR HER.  LET HER LEAVE WITH ONE TO WORK INSTEAD OF TWO AND DONT GIVE IN WHEN SHE TELLS YOU SHE IS HAVING PAIN.  WHATS HAPPENING IS SHE WANTS ENERGY....  GIVE HER ANOTHER WHEN SHE COMES HOME FROM WORK AND THEN TAKE IT FROM THERE.  WHEN YOU STOP HER COMPLETELY MAKE SURE SHE HAS VACATION FROM WORK BECAUSE THIS WILL BE THE HARDEST THING SHE WILL GO THROUGH AND YOU FOR THAT MATTER....  THE LONGER SHE STAYS ON THEM THE WORSE IT GETS SHE WILL NEED MORE AND START TO SEEK HER OWN WAY OF GETTING THEM..  PLEASE HELP HER...  I AM ON MY 5TH DAY OF WD'S AND EVERYDAY I MAKE IT THROUGH I THANK GOD I AM NOT DEAD.  I DID 32-40 VIKES A DAY....  I HAD HELP FROM MY HUSBAND I THANK HIM EVERYDAY FOR CARING SO MUCH ABOUT MY HEALTH AND MY LIFE.  YOU NEED TO GET YOUR WIFE OFF THESE NOW.  MAKE SURE SHES NOT CRUSHING THEM WHEN SHE TAKES THEM.  I WILL PRAY FOR YOU

[mrbari]

GWH-Jessesarpy-Roro...You can't begin to imagine, or maybe you can, how much your interest, fast response and comments have meant to me.  I don't take offense to comments.  I know this is an ugly situation and I wnat the good with the bad to open my eyes to things enclosed in my own little world.  It seems that those on the outside can see so much clearly and especially those who have been associated with it.  Because GWH, you are exactly right about not being able to live with it.  I have not reached that degree yet, although it has been in the back of my mind that that may happen some day.  I can't picture myself living without her and I will do whatever possible to keep everything going, smoothly or roughly, but I am hoping deeply for it to be smooth.  I know it won't be.  It hurts me to hurt her.  I can't stand it when I have to deny her.  I have the power in that little bottle to make her happy and I hate myself when I don't do it.  I say all this because of the small past experience I have had in telling her "No, I'm sorry, but I just can't let you have another."  It's going to be very hard to take when I have to go all the way with it.  I know I am going to have to be as strong as she is in withdrawing.  And Jessesarpy, that is a good idea about storing up a reserve by asking for an increase.  But I have one problem with that and that is the doctor right now is giving me a 20 and a ten.  If he increases it, I will wind up with two 20's and not have the smaller doae to admisister, which I think will come in handy.  And I understand that I cannot cut them in half safely.  But I still like the idea.  It would take me a month or two to store these up since she would be taking the regularly dosage all along before I start tapering.  Is that taking a chance in delaying the withdrawal procedure for too long?  And bless your heart Roro.  I am going to be pulling for you more than you know that you will be successful with your withdrawal.  %th day?  That's great.  I would like for you to tell me what it has been like.  I would like to know what I can expect and what she will be going through.  The toughest part for me is being tough with her.  I keep the bottles hidden now and have control of the.  I hand them out to her, but of course I can't give her more than I have.  I just try to space them.  I have another question.  At night, she will have a 20, say at 6:00.  Then she wants her last 20 about 2 hours later.  Since these are 12 hour release pills, is the same as giving her 40 at one time?  And for tapering off...you've read how many she has in a day, 60 mg.  To what extent do you think they should be tapered, over what period of time, to make it easier, and more importantly, effective?  I don't want her to crash and go into seizures requiring a trip to the ER, which could be bad.  I want to be very careful not to damage any progress I may be making.  I love the woman dearly and it is going to kill me to see her suffer, but I know I have to find the strength and courage.  I think I will sit down with her before hand and try to explain that I'm only doing it for her and because I love her so much.  I'm going to dread this more than she does.  That may be silly talk like telling your kid that spanking him/her hurts you more.  But it's true.  I am just so thankful all of you have come back to me like this.  It was more than I expected.  I was afraid it may be in a week or two, but no, all of you were right there.  I really do appreciate it.  I just don't know anything about what withdrawal is like.  From what I have read, it's got to be bad.  I don't condemn for what she has done, I just feel so sorry for her and want to help her.  I feel like I have the opportunity to do that, I just want to understand and do it right.  Thank all of you so much.  I feel like you have been right by my side.  Don't leave me as I know I am going to need guidance through this.  Tomorrow will be Day 6 Roro.  I will think about you all day!

[roro]

I will be here for you as well as many others here who care.  Start tapering her soon.......THIS IS HOW I WOULD DO IT...When she wakes up give her 1 20mg to start her day and a 10mg to take with her.  When she comes home give her 1 20mg oxy and nothing else....  She will tell you story after story about why she needs another but be strong or you might wake up one day and you will have more problems than you think (her health, her life) Oxycontin is a killer....  SO ANYWAY TRY THAT FOR A WEEK....Then take away the 10mg...  DO THAT FOR A WEEK....TAKE IT FROM THERE.....It is not likely that she will have seizures...  I read alot about it and i have not experienced them ever...  But I dont want to say it cant happen I just know that the first time you dont give it to her she will put you through hell...  She might start looking for them , threaten you, beg you anything she can think of because the first symptom of WD is mental........Next she will sweat, get chills, cant sleep, vomit, diareha is the worst, leg jitters cant stay still....  She might not have all these wd's (I DID)..Try to get DIPHENOXYLATE W/ATROPINE (LOMOTIL) it is for stomache cramps and diarehea...  You have to get it from the dr.  Tell him you have diareha for the last few days and you need it.  Keep it on hand it got me through the cramping which was the worst.....MAKE SURE YOU TALK TO HER ABOUT THIS AND SHE TAKES TIME OFF OF WORK SO AFTER THE TAPER SHE IS READY FOFR THE TURKEY (COLD TURKEY THAT IS)  BE STRONG YOU CAN GET HER THROUGH THIS AND SHE MIGHT HATE YOU WHILE GOING THROUGH IT BUT IN THE END YOU WILL BE HER SAVIOR...SHE WILL LOVE YOU MORE FOR CARING ABOUT HER AND GOING THROUGH IT WITH HER....  SETTLE IN BECAUSE IT IS A ROUGH ROAD BUT YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE STRONG AND NOT GIVE IN.......PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW ITS GOING....I AM PRAYING FOR YOU GUYS....

[ecampbe3]

Thanks for the advice, Michael.

Can you help me understand what Oxy does to weight?  Is it a weight loser or gainer?  I think I am going to go ahead and go on the Oxy, maybe need more than the 10mg as my arthritis is very very bad and i have osteophyte breakage, which makes it feel like i have broken glass inside of my knees.

Probably a stupid question, how will i know if i am getting high on this?  And, do you know why i do not get high on the Vic?  Sometimes I take 2-3 pills due to pain, never get a buzz - but can't function mentally.

Will I want more and more of the Oxy once i start taking it?  I have heard of this and am a bit worried.

Your thoughts and advice, much appreciated.  Thankyou

[mrbari]

Don't you doubt, roro, that I won't keep you informed of how it is going because I will probably need advice as circumstances come up that I don't know how to handle.  Thank you for your great advice and encouragement.  I think that the toughest part for me is going to be when she is in such withdrawal discomfort and I know that one pill will settle her down.  I will have to keep telling myself that I would be doing nothing but throwing all our efforts away and starting her off again.  I am going to sit down and figure out my game plan, and then make up my mind to do it.  When I am ready and prepared, I going to tell her how we are going to do it so she can be getting her mind ready for it.  I will also tell her what you said about what to expect as far as the diarehea, leg cramps, etc. go.  I'm anxious to get this started and all over with, but I think I will start it the first of next week.  Let me ask you one more question.  Once she has had her last, what can we expect then?  Are there still withdrawal symptoms?  Is it easy to go back on them?  Will she still be craving them?  Is there a suitable substitute that is not addictive?  I guess everything is addictive though.  There's no use in swapping a quarter for two dimes and a nickle, huh?
Thanks again, roro, and I will let you know.

[mrmichael67]

Some people do gain weight from taking opiates.  I crave sweets often.  The thing with opiates is over time people develop a tolerance to them.  After a while, 2 or 3 won't give you a buzz.  When you are put on the oxy, make sure that you take it exactly as prescribed.  If it doesn't work, tell your doctor right away.  That way he can adjust your meds.  Don't just take more on your own.  As long as you take your meds as prescribed, you shouldn't have to worry about your tolerance going up and up.  You just have to communicate with your doctor.  If you are still in pain, tell him or her.  Oxy is an excellent pain med when taken properly.  It is dangerous when abused.  As long as you don't abuse it, you have nothing to worry about.

[mrmichael67]

It is possible to bring your wife down off the meds without her going through terrible withdrawal.  Start off at what keeps her comfortable and then go down real slow.  Most addicts can't taper, but she won't have a choice.  They are your meds.  Try dropping her down about 10mg every three days.  If you drop too quickly, she will be miserable and you will have to go through a lot that is unnecessary.  She will have discomfort, but if you go slow, she shouldn't have the extreme stomach cramps or diarhea (diarrhea).  And, like what was said previously, she will say anything to get them from you.  Stand your ground.  But, don't go too fast.  That seems like unnecessary punishment.

[mrbari]

Thank you do much for your interest and concern.  I want all the advice I can obtain.  I have never denied her anything during our entire married life and this is going to be hard.  But let me ask you a question.  You said to go SLOWLY so as to not cause severe discomfort.  Can I go TOO slowly?  For instance, you said decreasing 10 mg about every three days.  Could I let het go a week with that decrease without causing harm to the final results?  And then 10 more the next week, etc.?  Would I be starting the withdrawal process all over again by going that long each week?  I want it to be as easy as possible without jeopardizing the benefits.  Thanks again.

[mrbari]

Thanks for your good advice.  I'm going to start the 10 mg decrease next Monday.  I will keep everyone who has taken interest know how it is going.  But I'm scared.  I'm scared of ME.  You see, it is not causing me any misery, per se.  I'm beginning to think like an addict.  On the top, I don't see the real harm in it if it is kept at a reasonable consumption.  But, underneath, I know it is harming her, or will.  It is going to be hard for me to be strong and deny her.  I know she is going to want them, and I know that I have them.  I have threatened many times of just flushing them, but I know that would not be the thing to do.  I'm torn between her suffering without or sufering with.  For instance, less than an hour ago, she called me from her work and asked if I had any hidden in her purse or anywhere.  I told her "No".  The truth is, I have one hidden in her vitamin bottle at her work just in case she crashes over something.  When I hung up, I almost called her back and told her where it was.  She asked me this because I have hidden them before in the trunk of her car, in the glove box, etc. for "emergencies".  In a way, I was proud of myself for telling her no a while ago, but I feel like I have lied to her.  I am hoping this is the beginning of my toughness.  She has two 10's that she took to work, and she must have already taken them.  I asked if she had and she said she had not.  Anyway, when she gets home, she has two 20's coming, as she has had for weeks now.  She will take one the moment she walks in and will want the other two hours or less later.  She gets real energetic and sews or works on her hobbies.  Just full of life.  I hope that doesn't disappear but I'm afraid it will.  The closer I'm getting to next Monday, the more afraid I become.  I'm beginning to think her problem is ME.  If I didn't have those pills, she may not be in the fix she is now experiencing.  I wish it would all just go away, as I'm sure everyone does.  I have received so much fantastic help, maybe even more than the average, and I am so grateful for that.  You all seem like family now and you are there to help us.  Thank you again and I will keep reading and letting you know how it is going.

[tex3]

Hi and welcome. I didn't finish the thread because I wanted to respond. Of course your wife is happy-go-lucky, and of course she's afraid of not being that way when she gets off the pills. The fact is, she won't be, at least not for a while. But the love affair with Oxy won't last either. The fun, energy, happiness, all that is what got every one of us started. And one powerful reason we're afraid to quit.
What will happen soon is that she won't be happy or energetic, at least often, and she'll need to take more and more pills just to cope, just to feel "normal" but she won't be normal at all. She'll start to feel miserable and be consumed by this. The pills steal your life and she is most certainly addicted already.
The good news is that she will feel happy-go-lucky, energetic, and all the other good stuff once she's off the pills, but not right away. First comes the hard part, and that's quitting. Her brain chemistry is already damaged, but will be repaired. She has to quit, then allow her neurotransmitters time to repair. That's why you feel like **** when you quit; your brain's own "pleasure" system has been short-circuited and doesn't work anymore, as it depends on the drugs. So once a person quits, the lack of drugs leaves a gap, and it takes time for the brain to do its job on its own again. Once it does, though, all those good feelings come back. She will stop living life numb.
Please trust me that very soon she will start going downhill. If she can quit now, you'll save a lot of heartache. Taper if possible, but if that doesn't work she needs to see a doctor to help her detox. They can give her meds to make the WD much easier to handle.
I'm three months clean and have my life back. I had those same fears, and my husband dealt with it for a long time, until it was out of control. Now our relationship is better than ever; not perfect, but at least real. Have your wife come talk to us here. It might open her eyes.
And what gwh said is right on - it's the fear of not having the pills that makes our heads hurt, backs ache, whatever. I'd almost get high just knowing my refill was ready. Your wife is at a precipice. But she has to want to get back to the right side. Let her read these posts, and I think it will help. Best of luck and hang in there.
tracy

[tex3]

One more thing - your wife is very lucky to have you. She has a long road ahead of her, no matter what. But as much as you want to, you cannot quit for her. You can be supportive, but she must educate herself and want to do this. She has to either hit bottom or be very strong, or both. Since I've been clean, I've come here for support and to offer what help I can, and many times I've wanted to reach through the wires and help someone quit, force them to see how much better life is once you win this battle. But you can't do it for anyone. So yes, help her, but please don't enable her. This is her fight and she has to win it.
Finally, drug abuse is many things: mental, physical, emotional, even spiritual. She will have to look at why she abused, why she wants to get high. That can wait until later, when she has some distance from the drugs. Just know she will still have issues, that this doesn't just disappear. She doesn't have to live life thinking of herself as an addict, but she should understand the process and why this happened. Please urge her to read these posts; maybe she will see a bit of herself. It took someone telling me flat out I was an addict for me to face it and stay strong about quitting. Best of luck and please keep us posted. tracy

[roro]

I wouldnt tell her what symptoms she should expect because not everyone goes through this as severly as I did.  It really depends how long and how much she takes...Do you see her take them?  Just wondering if she swallows them whole or breaks them up...  Today is my 6th day and i am feeling much better...  I can function....It is so easy to relapse.I think about them everyday and always just want one more.  But I am gonna stay strong because i am NOT going through this WD ever again....

Mrbari, The day she has her last pill will be the worst for her mentally and you still see WD's...  The only reason I couldnt taper was I took 30 pills a day...  (Yes I am very lucky I am not dead) and I could cut down to 20 a day but after that the WD's were always there.  So I figured if I am gonna withdraw anyway I might as well get over it and do it all in one shot...I used to live just for the next minute that I was gonna pop 6 pills at a time...  Yes 6....  I functioned like a normal person...  Very moody but functioned....

Cut her down by 10mg a day and see how she handles it.  You dont want to go to slow and prolong her agony...  Everyone will have their own opinion.  I am just giving you this advice from my own experience.  God Bless and Good Luck

[OxyDout]

good morning,

I"m glad you've captured everyones interest, it feels good to know that so many people on this forum really care, doesn't it? Anyway, I wanted to point out a few things to you.  Actually I wanted to comment on the Seizures (sp), I have never got any from withdrawal, I haven't even heard of any, especially off of 60mg a day so I wouldn't worry about it, but here is the CATCH, SO PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS, Remember the first thing I said, SHE HAS TO WANT THIS, if she doesn't you might as well not do it because its a waste of time!!! If she cares about herself, YOU AND YOUR LIFE TOGETHER THEN SHELL STOP!!! I say this because when you taper, it could be painless, however, you will fight her tooth and nail if shes not ready because she will want that high, and she will not get it if shes tapering, in which case she will be begging you for more.  SO THE POINT IS, don't taper her off if the both of you can't handle it, you know what I mean? I would sit her down and say hey, we are taking you off of this and your gonna need time off of work.  Tell her to take 5 days off.  If she tries to say I can't "right now" say ok fine, you will go without the pills until you "can", its gotta be tough love or its not going to work, she has to wake up............its gonna be tough, but don't let her deceive you anymore then she already has.

[ThruBeinCool]

Day 3 and all is well... ug!

[OxyDout]

I like the name, it made me laugh outloud, day 3!! thats awesome, i'm on day 4, and trust me, i have failed numerous times over the last 6 months, don't do it to yourself!!!! keep going, youll be there very soon!!.

gwh

[mrbari]

Roro, thank you so much for your insight and sharing your experiences with me.  You are giving me more and more to think about.  When I came to this forum yesterday morning, I was very unaware of most of the things you have told me and I was looking for some understanding, which you have provided.  You have been giving me the nitty-gritty of what it is really like and what I can expect, plus the way to do it, taken from your own experiences.  I really appreciate that, more than you will know.  I felt like an outsider yesterday, but I now have a "slight" idea of what it's got to be like to be "hooked" and it has made me feel like a part of everyone here.  I don't mean to smile out load, but I am so thankful I chose not to become a victim myself by refusing to partake and to just live with the pain as much as I can.  My pain apparently is no where as severe as some of you have experienced to cause you to have to go on the pain medication.  I am thankful for this, but it does not prevent me from understanding and having caring thoughts about each one of you.  You had a reason.  My wife did not have any pain but only wanted the high.  The end result has turned out to be the same.  I am equally thankful that I have caught this at a stage that it is not as serious as some of you live with every day.  I feel like I am having to deal with only a toy compared to the fight others are having to win.  In addition, I am very grateful that no one has shunned me by thinking that I (my wife) is nowhere near as bad off as you, so why should you try to help me when it is you who needs far more help.  All of you are a great bunch and I am so glad I came here.

Yes, at most times, I see her take them because I dole them out to her PRN.  Most of the time she just swallows them, but I have been suspicious at times and ask her if she chewed that one.  She will tell me that she did because she wanted to hurry and get the high.  She apologizes and says she won't do it again, but she does occassionally.  This is especially true when she has just come home from work and has had a bad day.  The rest of the time, she swallows them whole.  I am trying to envision the hardship you are going through by coming off of so many that you were taking.  I hope so much that you do it, roro.  You deserve it.  Thank you so much for your good advice and let's stay in touch.  Hang in there gal, I'm surely pulling for you.  Tomorrow is Day 7 (one whole, long WEEK)!

[mrbari]

Well, Good Morning To YOU, GWH.  Nice hearing from you again and I thank you.

You have hit some key notes right on the head.  You state that she has got to WANT to quit.  This is the part I am not too sure about.  When we have discuss the need previously for her to quit, she will comment that she will then need something to take its place.  I mention exercise, hobbies, camping, etc.  She says that won't cut it.  I've told her she is damn sure not going to start drinking or anything like that because we would be just jumping back into the fire.  But I have no answer as to what she needs as a substitute.  She no doubt likes the high feeling.  I can understand that, but I fell equally as good by not being on drugs.  Admittedly, I've tried them before and I honestly don't like the "out of this world" feeling.  I'm thankful I feel that way.  I don't condemn it untilit gets more than one can handle.  It has caused us problems that we are dealing with right now.  She was on the way home from work one afternoon about 6 months ago.  She had taken pain and depression drugs prior to driving home (about 25 miles).  Wittnesses on the highway say that she was weaving in both lanes and ran a car off the road.  They continues to follow heer and saw her run off the road direstly into a tree.  She totaled the car.  The Emergency Room called me.  She was beat up pretty badly.  It was horrifying for me to see her.  She was charged with DUI because the police found an empty pain medicine bottle in the car with the contents gone befre it's expiration date.  She was taking too many.  She has been to court, but the drug results weren't back and she was given another date.  She went again and the same thing.  Her next court date is for Oct 1, giving the agency time to find her blood test.  She is holding on the the hope that they have lost it.  The conviction will mean she will go to jail for 48 hours, probation and suspended license for a year with the possibility that she can still drive back and forth to work.  The insurance did not pay for all the car, so we have $3300. to pay on that.  She has this thing about complaining to her doctor that she hurts here or there or is in some type of depression and her doctor will prescribe.  I can not speak to her doctor for fear that she may really need something one day and her doctor won't give it to her.  That may be an avenue for her when she is looking for a substitute after I get her off the Oxy.  She used to never miss work, regardless.  Now, she does miss, or come home early because of not feeling good.  Things are beginning to become jeopardized.  

I spoke with her last night in bed, after I noticed that she was involntarily jerking, that we were going to come off this stuff.  She okay, that she was ready, but I'm not too sure.  I will just have to wait and see.  And you're right about the tough love.  In the past, I have tried to be tough but she will go into a state of depression and say things that she doesn't ordinarily say that hurt me very deeply.  I refrain from arguing and talking back with insults and just take it, sometimes with a tear or two.  It is going to be mentally tough for me, but it is going to be both mentally and physically tough for her.  I've got to make myself understand this.  I know that it's not, but sometimes I think that living with someone trying to come off is almost as hard for the one coming off.  It is going to be a rough road for us both.  My you, nowhere near as rugh as it is for others I have read about and talked to on here, but in my virgin state, it is going to be plenty bad.  I know she cares about her life and our life together and a day never goes by that we don't say "I love you" 10-15 times.  But I am afraid that the mental and physical state she is going to be in will override that previous feeling and will be disregared.  That is where I am going to have to hold myself together.  It may be that I am equally as worried of my reactions as I am hers.  We both are going to have to ynderstand, and that is easy to say right now, but how about next week?  We'll have to see.

Yes, everyone on here has been extremely gracious and helpful.  I really do appreciate the attention my minor problem has been tended to.  It makes me love all of you in a special way.  Thanks again, GWH

[lace]

Hi Everyone...I am new to this site and posted a question on the methodone thread.  I don't quite know how this site works yet cause I am new to computers and sites.  But my question is will someone answer my question on the methodone site or should I rewrite it on this thread?  Help...

[GOD]

Hi, Lace.. And welcome to the forum!

Yes, to answer your question, Please copy and paste your question up here (near the top of the forum) -- THat's where everyone looks first for new questions.....

I'll go ahead and re-post it for you!



Originally from Lace:
Hi, I am new to this site. Today as a matter of fact. I need help. I am very frightened. My Methodone clinic has been bought by a company from it's original owners. I was on a financially assisted program and they let the ball slip and they lost their funding. Anyway...I am on 60 mg. of methodone and they have given me two months to detox or pay. I can't afford to pay so I am detoxing. If you were above 90 Mgs. they gave you 3 months...and if you were below 50...they gave you one month. Now...even if they do get their funding back...I will still detox. I am finished with this thing running my life.
I have been on Meth since 1972 and got off it in 1995 (in jail). It's different in jail. Now I am going to do it on my own. I got in a bad accident in 1995 and am on dissability. What I am trying to say is that when I was clean I got re-addicted to pain pills and had to get back on Methodone in 1997. So I was clean 2 years. I am not afraid of using again (had a great awakening...the accident). I am afraid of my health. I want to know if you think it's possible to get off of 60 in 2 months. How bad do you think it will be and any suggestions you might have. Thanks.

[mrmichael67]

You can drop her 10mg a week.  That would be a much more humane way of doing it.  That would be about as easy as she could do it.  And, if she does chew the meds, let her know that she will have to do without.  For example, if you are giving them out to her twice a day, she should be able to go the entire 12 hours without going into withdrawal.  If she chews them, that takes away the time release aspects of them and will only last around 4 to 6 hours.  If she chews them, she has to deal with the consequences.  And, you have to be firm.  You have to be prepared with knowing that she might chew them thinking that she can talk you into giving her more.  You can't, or the taper will not work.  Then, she will be miserable.  If she does chew them, let her go into withdrawal until her next dose.  This way, she might see what the consequences of her actions are...hopefully!  But, 10mg a week should work out fine.  Any quicker than that and I think it would be needless torture and just not right.

[OxyDout]

mrmichael, very well stated, wasn't it in psychology class, the "salivating dogs" therapy, something along those lines. Anyway, its true, she needs to suffer to realize the pain of not stopping, and she needs to stop abusing your kindness, basically what it comes down to is, every addict in order to stop needs to SUCK IT UP, deal with the pain and pay your dues, (god that sounds awful) but its the truth, and I hope you can handle the deceiptful minded games........... and I don't mean that she is the only one, we all know what she is thinking because we thought the same things.............

[oh please already]

hi to every one, i havent been around here much but i had to stop and ask mr michael a question if i may.it might seem like a drug seeking qiestion but its not, i have been weaning off large doses of oxycotin and now am on the patch,which i find works very well for me for pain control and is also helping stop the pattern i followed of popping pils in my mouth when ever i had stress.Its good for me because ,it limits my choice and control which as a addict i have very little of.MRMICHAEL, i am currently using a 100mcg patch q 48 hr as per my mds instuction and i'v have notiiced that sometimes the amount of jell in the resorvor is differt, some seem plump, and others barely have a dab.I find its messing with my mind,even thought i know they are tightly controled on dosage,i find if i SEE the patch isnt plump,i stress that it wont work. It does, i have no pain but i still stress. SO bad i have my husband put on my back so i can see. lol, i know,but i cant help it. Have you noticed this?, its seems more so with the 100 then other does but i have also noted it with 75s before i increased   thanks am?y

[oh please already]

hi to every one, i havent been around here much but i had to stop and ask mr michael a question if i may.it might seem like a drug seeking qiestion but its not, i have been weaning off large doses of oxycotin and now am on the patch,which i find works very well for me for pain control and is also helping stop the pattern i followed of popping pils in my mouth when ever i had stress.Its good for me because ,it limits my choice and control which as a addict i have very little of.MRMICHAEL, i am currently using a 100mcg patch q 48 hr as per my mds instuction and i'v have notiiced that sometimes the amount of jell in the resorvor is differt, some seem plump, and others barely have a dab.I find its messing with my mind,even thought i know they are tightly controled on dosage,i find if i SEE the patch isnt plump,i stress that it wont work. It does, i have no pain but i still stress. SO bad i have my husband put on my back so i can see. lol, i know,but i cant help it. Have you noticed this?, its seems more so with the 100 then other does but i have also noted it with 75s before i increased   thanks am?y

[oh please already]

hi to every one, i havent been around here much but i had to stop and ask mr michael a question if i may.it might seem like a drug seeking qiestion but its not, i have been weaning off large doses of oxycotin and now am on the patch,which i find works very well for me for pain control and is also helping stop the pattern i followed of popping pils in my mouth when ever i had stress.Its good for me because ,it limits my choice and control which as a addict i have very little of.MRMICHAEL, i am currently using a 100mcg patch q 48 hr as per my mds instuction and i'v have notiiced that sometimes the amount of jell in the resorvor is differt, some seem plump, and others barely have a dab.I find its messing with my mind,even thought i know they are tightly controled on dosage,i find if i SEE the patch isnt plump,i stress that it wont work. It does, i have no pain but i still stress. SO bad i have my husband put on my back so i can see. lol, i know,but i cant help it. Have you noticed this?, its seems more so with the 100 then other does but i have also noted it with 75s before i increased   thanks am?y

[oh please already]

sorry about that

[lace]

Thanks for your reply...but do you have any suggestions.  I did not get any replies from anyone.  I hope someone out there can help!  I need it!!!!  PS  you said all I had to do was copy my question (which you did for me).  How did you do that?  Are there any directions on how this site works?  How do you start a thread?  I am so new to computers...I hope I not being a pest.  Thanks again for answering me.

[OxyDout]

you just take it where it was posted, "copy" it and then "paste it when you put in a new "comment".  the options "copy" and "paste" are under the "Edit" pulldown menu.  Anyway, I think coming off of 60mg in 2 months is definitely doable if you want it. Just go down 10mg a week............ that should be good, although, the last 1wk or so I would go down a little less so when your at zero your not dead, you know.  Use your body as a tool to decide what to take when you get to the last 10 days.  YOU CAN DO THIS, don't take the methadone to get high!!!!

GWH

[mrbari]

Tracy, thank you for your two posts.  Your comments were very welcomed and appreciated.  You revealed the type of feelings I was wanting to hear.  That is, just what we can expect before, during and after the withdrawal process.  You gave it in very nice detail.  I think she has been somewhat apprehensive about this, not wanting to suffer very much, which is natural, wondering if it's worth it.  You gave some very good advice.  I have spoken to her this morning and encouraged her to read all these posts so that she can better understand not only what others are going through but also that all of you are here to help her through it.  I have also urged her to get on here and respond to express just how she feels so that she will know all of you are there for her.  She agreed to read them tonight when she comes in from work.  I'm anxious for this to happen.  I am also in great hopes that she will write from her heart and tell it like it is.  We'll go from there.

Again, thank you Tracy, and ALL of you who have shown concern by being there for me, and also wanting to be there for my wife.  In all my life, I have never met a gathering of nicer people.  I really mean that.  I am so glad I found you.  THANK YOU!

[mrbari]

gwh was correct about the copy/paste comments.  But being a student myself, let me go into a little more detail, which I always need, and maybe you can grasp it better.  I will be very elementary.  Find a text that you want to transfer.  Start at the bottom of the text with your mouse left button held down.  Move the mouse upward until you have highlighted the portion of text you want to transfer, or "copy".  Release the left button.  Now depress the right button on the mouse on top of the highlighted portion of the text and you will see an option menu pop up.  Click on "copy".  You have now saved the highlighted portion of your text.  It is in "memory".  Now go to wherever you wish to transfer the text to.  Have your cursor blinking at the spot where you want the text to begin.  Click on "Edit" at the top of your screen and the drop down menu will give you the option of "Paste".  Click on Paste.  You will see your "copied" text "pasted" right where you had your cursor blinking.  Hope this has helped because it is a handy, and almost necessary, tool.  I am doing the very same thing here in writing to you.  I have typed this message in Word Pad and I am now going to "copy" it and "paste" it in the Comment section to you.

I'm sorry I can't comment on your other concern because I am new here myself and learning so much from the thoughts of others.  If they can help you, believe me, they will.  They shun no one who is in need.  Good luck.

[ThruBeinCool]

Day 4 and I'm feeling semi-human today...

[trying]

Good for you.  Yesterday was my day 4 and I felt the same.  Today is much better and I'm sure tomorrow even better.  I have mood swings where one hour I'm so happy and the next a little sad.  But the saddness does pass and I feel happy again.  I'm sure this will take a while to work itself out.  I have nothing but time.  Are you making plans for the 4th or hanging in recovering.  How are you sleeping.  Give more details.  I would love to hear from someone else who is in the same general state as I am.  It's hard but the worst is over and it gets easier and easier every day (so i'm told).  I hope to hear from you soon.

[ThruBeinCool]

Good job, trying!
Yes, I kinda have the blues, but I really had the blues while eating 20+ vics! These blues are free, f**k it! This way there is at least hope. -No plans for the 4th other than my band mates coaxing me into playing a gig, which I told them to get a stand-in for me; I told them I have the flu, although I'm sure they know whats up; -they've known me for over 20 years. My best friend, in the band, I've known for over 30 years, we met when we were in diapers. A good reason why I'm quitting is beacase he just gave me this 'look' about a week ago, you know that, 'goddamn, you are pathetic' look. It woke me up; I love him like a brother.  
Last night, I got about 4 hours of sleep, but I hope to get a cat-nap today (provided the kids don't drive me nuts.)
One thing I'm noticing is my heart, at times, is beating like a trip hammer, but that seems to be getting better with each passing day. The toilet runs are starting to get a little more solid, (sorry if that is too much detail for you! :D )
I tell you, it was a 'white knuckle ride' for a couple of days but I'm feeling strong about this. I had never made it this long (I started this **** 4 years ago quite innocently with a kidney stone and 30 vics.)  
Thank you for your concern, it's people like you (and tex3; in my darkest hour her words got me through)that give me strength. What's your story?

-TBC

[OxyDout]

where you a co author of "microsoft for dummies" just kidding, I was quite impressed with the detailed description, at this point anything will make me laugh.  While I'm on the subject can I say that it kills me how so many people stereotype "addicts" when most of us have a good life.  Here I am, almost 23 yrs old, Just graduated from a top ranked business school with a 3.3 gpa I might add, I had an open door to play semi-professional soccer, I would have sat the bench, haha, but the point is, I have a good life, I also have a girlfriend that I will soon be engaged to, I mean, that doesn't sound like the stereotype, neither do any of your stories. I have learned a lot from this forum.  Its been on my mind because I heard a high school friend that i haven't seen in 4 years talk about me to someone else.  When I confronted him, he just insulted me like I was nobody, and as bad as it was, the only thing I came back was, I made close to $70,000 my first year out of college, what are you doing with your life, ( I felt stupid after that) but non the less, he shut up. I just can't stand when people talk, you know? but I do have to say, they are right about one thing, I'm screwing up my life.  Sorry, I had to vent.

GWH

[mrmichael67]

Yes, I have noticed that too.

[lace]

THANKS FOR THE DIRECTIONS ON HOW THE COPY...BOY OH BOY...LIVE AND LEARN. I FINALLY DID IT AND HERE'S MY POST (BUT BEFORE THAT LET ME SAY IN ANSWER TO THE CLONIDINE QUESTION...I WAS ON IT BECAUSE I HAVE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE...BUT SOMEONE TOLD ME I COULD USE THE CLONIDINE TO ALSO HELP DETOX...BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE DOSAGE...WHERE COULD I FIND IT OUT.  WHY IS IT DANGEROUS?) wELL HERE IS MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND YEST YOU WILL SEE I AM AT A CLINC AND HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME.  THIS IS TRULY A BLESSING IN DISQUIZE (SP)...tHEY ARE TAKING ME DOWN EVERY SIX DAYS AND IT ALREADY STARTED. I DON'T FEEL IT YET, BUT I AM DETERMINED TO DETOX EVEN IF THEY GET THEIR FUNDING BACK.  I FINISHED HAVING SOMEONE ELSE HAVING THIS KIND OF CONTROL OVER MY LIFE.  PLEASE READ AND YOU WILL SEE MY DILEMA.  I ALSO WAS IN REHAB A LONG TIME AGO IN A PLACE CALLED SYNANON.  I THINK IT WAS THE FIRST REHAB.  I THEN WENT ON TO WORK AT PHONIX HOUSE IN NY AND S___ HAPPENS AND LOW AND BEHOLD I GOT RE-ADDICTED AND HAD TO GO BACK ON METHODONEL...I THINK IT'S TIME TO GET OFF.  I NEED ALL THE HELP AND SUPPORT I CAN GET...THANX EVERYONE...HERE IT GOES:

mY ORIGINAL POST ON 7/2/02

Hi, I am new to this site. Today as a matter of fact. I need help. I am very frightened. My Methodone clinic has been bought by a company from it's original owners. I was on a financially assisted program and they let the ball slip and they lost their funding. Anyway...I am on 60 mg. of methodone and they have given me two months to detox or pay. I can't afford to pay so I am detoxing. If you were above 90 Mgs. they gave you 3 months...and if you were below 50...they gave you one month. Now...even if they do get their funding back...I will still detox. I am finished with this thing running my life.
I have been on Meth since 1972 and got off it in 1995 (in jail). It's different in jail. Now I am going to do it on my own. I got in a bad accident in 1995 and am on dissability. What I am trying to say is that when I was clean I got re-addicted to pain pills and had to get back on Methodone in 1997. So I was clean 2 years. I am not afraid of using again (had a great awakening...the accident). I am afraid of my health. I want to know if you think it's possible to get off of 60 in 2 months. How bad do you think it will be and any suggestions you might have. Thanks.

[mrmichael67]

Clonodine can drop your blood pressure to dangerous levels.  That is why it is dangerous.  Don't worry.  Stick around and everyone will help you get through this.  It is do-able.  There are many here that can give you sound advice.

[ThruBeinCool]

Day 5, still alive!

[lace]

Thank you all for your advice and support.

I am in day two of my detox...As I said before my Methadone Clinic lost its  funding.  I think I am going to start a MA Group (Methadone Anonymous) at my clinic.  There are about 30 of us that have to detox.  Everyone is so negative and I think if we start this group we can be positive if we stick together. So I am going to type up a paper for a sign-up list and see if anyone wants to try to stay positive instead of thinking they can't do it.  Some of you told me it's doable and I am going to have faith.  I will keep posting because you make me feel that I am not alone.  Thanks for the support and thanks for your answers.

[lace]

Thanks for helping me and thanks for your support.  I don't feel so alone now.  I can't believe that I am talking to someone I don't even know and that person (you) can reach out to a perfect stranger and give her encouragement.  God Bless Us All.

[trying]

Hello. Are you still sticking to it?  It's day 7 for me and feel so much better.  I was on a 10 a day perc habit.  I agree w/ you about feeling shitty when taking so at least the shitty feeling when withrawing does go away.  It is getting much easier as each day passes.  It's still hard to accept that I will never use again, but that's my intent and I'm sticking to it.  I am just so happy that I did it and I have nothing but good things ahead of me.  Like gwh said, people think of addicts as lazy no good people who just want to get high.  Like others on this board, I have a really good job and have been at my job for the past 7 years.  So even though I was not doing the right thing, I managed to go to work and have a productive life w/ friends and family.  None of my friends know I have(had) a problem.  The only person I told was my Mother and she helped me get to a doctor to detox at home.  She would make sure I ate and got the detox meds as needed.  When I think about all the money I wasted doing those evil pills, it makes me sick.  I could have bought a new car in cash.  It's nice not to worry where I am going to score and not counting pills.  So what day are you on today?  Is it 4?  You can do this.  It is doable. Don't lose you determination.  Hope to hear from you soon.  Where are you from if you don't mind telling.

[ThruBeinCool]

Hi trying.
Yes, I'm still hanging in there, today is day 6. I actually woke up today and felt pretty darned good. I am happy you are sticking with it; you know, misery loves company. ;) When you have a moment of weakness, just think about that hopeless feeling of working your schedule around whether you have the pills to do something and being afraid of commiting to anything in the future because you may not have the pills to make it, screw that! As for accepting the fact that you will never use again was too much for me so I always revert back to tex3's words of advice to at least 'give sobriety a chance & if I want to go back at a later date I would have that option'. But the more time I get under my belt, the less I feel like I want to screw this up, I feel good right now. I haven't felt this good in 4 years and people are asking me if I have been working out because I 'look great' -dig that! I used to be afraid to look in the mirror. Anyway, I'm from SE Michigan about 15 miles north of Detroit, where are you hailing from? Good to hear from you and hang in there, we can beat this bastage!

TBC

[dippindan]

hi.........ive been taking about 2 30mg roxicodones a day for the past 6 months...i was wondering what damage that was doing to my insides? when i wake up im not in any pain and i really dont have any withdraw symptoms only that i feel like i want to do another....

[dippindan]

hi.........ive been taking about 2 30mg roxicodones a day for the past 6 months...i was wondering what damage that was doing to my insides? when i wake up im not in any pain and i really dont have any withdraw symptoms only that i feel like i want to do another....

[GoingToMakeIt]

This is an old post, so go to top and hit "Post a Question" and start a new post.

60mg roxi will turn into 120. Quit now while your ahead of the game.