Open forum for the day

[tex3]

Hi everyone. I was able to post so thought I'd leave space for anyone with questions to post here. Looks like lots of new people are around - welcome!

[OxyDout]

god help me I'm doing it, I refuse to lose this time, day 11!!! DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW LONG RESTLESS LEG CAN LAST, I don't mean leg spasms, or muscle cramps, I mean Restless Leg.............

[hellbent]

It's weird how different people have different symptoms in opiate withdrawal. If you don't mind me asking, what exactly happens with RLS? Your leg shakes? Is it a type of cramp?

People talk about RLS and abdominal and leg cramps, but I never had any of those symptoms, and I detoxed from an 800 mgs daily OC habit.

One thing I did was force down massive fluids, as much as possible. Eating was a moot point, as nothing stayed in my system long enough for me to profit by it. I would liquidate a multivitamin in a matter of minutes. I was on Ensure for several weeks, as nothing else would allow me any nutrition. But I did drink all kinds of juices, constantly, including that nasty green Superfood. This may have enabled me to avoid cramping.

[The Golden Slipper]

Hello everyone,

I haven't posted in a few weeks and am fairly new to the forum. I have been going through withdrawal from fiorinal (a combination aspirin and barbituate pain killer).  I began taking them when I was 25 (I am now 44) and am still hooked.  It all started with migraine headaches years ago. I am taking ativan 0.5 milligrams twice a day to help with the non stop anxiety.  My doctor told me that he didn't feel there was a great danger of seizures because the most I have taken is 8 pills in one day.
The cravings are still pretty bad and I am constantly tempted to get more pills. I am still trying to find an "addictionologist" in the Boston are but havent' been too successful.  I'm really not sure how much regular doctors really know about withdrawals.

If anybody has any advice or comments I am more than open to them.

Thanks

[MissyD]

I too agree with Hellb that the liquid intake makes a huge difference.  Since it can be so hard to even drink let alone eat anything our bodies start reacting to the lack to nutrition and especially fluids.  I know that for myself and my husband when we were on our meds we were always hungry and so very thirsty.  Now it's an effort to get things down but we have been making each other drink and eat.  We even went for a short walk last night, and then soon afterwards went to bed.  
  Ps...I also wanted to comment on the Benzo thing that others have been talking about.  I have been taking them for over 3 years now but I have been very fortunate that I can take or leave them.  I have read on this forum some horrible tales of wd from them.  I also noticed that so many of us use them.  I wonder what correlation we might find if we to sit down and really look at what we were treating?  Do you know what I mean?  I know I have social anxiety and GAD but in the end this all kinda sums up to the overall feeling of being lost.  I am not trying to take away anyone's diagnosis of a problem but I do know that I felt and feel trapped.  In the end it's me and the world and I am going to have to seek out help again (counseling, that is what really helped in the past) So good luck to you and keep me posted.
Missy

[OxyDout]

thanks for the response, i agree that benzo, valium, etc. all are hindering to the detox process, I know they help many, but they seem to fog everything up.  Now, RLS, its not any kind of cramp, its the worst thing I have experienced. Have you ever gotten very edgy, irritated, just fidgety, like when your sitting and bounce your knee up and down.  Well, think of the one time you just couldn't sit still, multiply it by 100 and concentrate that very irritable,fidgety,edgy feeling into a 6 inch area on the outside of your knee, where you have to keep flexing your leg straight out like there is some force behind it. You can't lay still, you can't do anything, its gotten so bad that I have cried, its miserable................... GOD HELP ME...   So, how are you all doing?????

BY THE WAY, I WILL EITHER HAVE A 2000 A4 2.8T AUDI, OR A 1999 A6 AUDI BY FRIDAY..!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SORRY BUT THAT HAS TAKEN THE PLACE OF THE DRUGS.

[mrmichael67]

Benzo's don't hinder the detox process.  They help many by relieving anxiety and feel a little more comfortable while waiting for the proper time to pass for them to feel better.  If, for example, a person is going to have a two week detox.  That means that is how long it will take for that certain individual.  It is going to be two weeks whether they take benzos or not.  And, the benzos sure do help quite a few feel a lot more comfortable during the whole hideus process.  I will agree that they do make a lot of people feel cloudy.  For me, they help me sleep.  And, nothing is better during detox than being able to sleep a few hours away here and there.  Hey, just like anything, they are not for everyone.

[OxyDout]

why don't you shut up because you don't know what the hell you are talking about, I mean come on, your replacing one drug for another, would you wake up...ha, just kidding, did I have you going?? In all seriousness, I agree, I do think they help, but I will not take them anymore due to the hangover in the morning....... you know?

[skipper]

hey there:
i have to agree with mrmichael, benzo's don't prolong opiate w/d.
they are addictive, and if not used with caution can cause an
addiction of the same type as barbs cause.

the thing with restless leg is, i know of nothing besides benzos,
baclofen, or lots of exercise! it doesn't matter if you were born
with RLS, or had it as a side affect of addiction...it's the same
thing either way...and if your afflicted with it, you will have
to do something to get rid of it.

gwh:
i never tried buying a car to deal with addiction (or any part of
it). sooner or later you will come to terms with addiction...or
it will come to terms with you...i hope you have something for
the long term in mind. funny thing about addiction - it will
cause your whole world to stop...but time will keep passing...
i guess that's how a 13 year old drug user turns into a 51 year
old junky! don't mean to get on your case, but your using is
costing you more and more...and time is passing. i doubt much
will change for you, until you stop doing things your way and
listen to someone else! why not give NA or AA  shot? you will do
as you want, and whatever happens i wish to remain your friend.
i can't always sit back and watch quietly...especially when i see
someone make the same mistakes i have!

i've been using a new routine for management of pain meds. i've
always said that taking these little oxy pills the way i'm sup-
posed to is the most difficult thing i've ever done. actually it
is as bad as any junk habit i've ever had. can't really say what
i've been doing different yet, but i will talk about in a few
weeks. i will say this, the last 2 weeks have gone so well that
i am having trouble believeing it! for me, using junk is a com-
plex combination of things. one of these "things" is a huge issue
of control, and that is what i've been dealing with.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[OxyDout]

I don't think we are on the same page, I was kidding about the benzos, they help everyone, just don't like the hangover. Buying a car to keep away from the drugs was a joke.  I have a care with 120,000 miles on it and I want to trade it in before it starts depreciating to nothing......... And the restless leg syndrome, I wasn't trying to say we felt two different things, I know its the same, regardless to whether your born with it or get it through addiction, what I was trying to say was, I'm hoping that SINCE I wasn't born with it, that it would go away after withdrawals.  I hope this clears everything up, i don't know where that post came from, I'm on day 11, I'm sober and I have been saving every dime that i can, and doing pretty well financially.  I have no urge to start back up with the oxy contin and or any other drugs.  What exactly did i write that made you react the way you did. I"m confused.

GWH

[skipper]

gwh:
i guess the post came from concern...and i was kidding about the
car!

you are still young enough to have most of your adult life free
of addiction. when i see you post your struggles with the oxy,
hydro or methadone it both scares me and causes me saddness. i
know well enough from my own addiction and others close to me,
that you will do things your way. that isn't always easy to keep
my mouth shut about. perhaps i will confine my oppinions, as i
do not wish to upset you or anyone else.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Tessa]

I think what gwh was trying to say is that he's finding more productive ways to spend his money!  I think that's great...good for you!! :)

[hippy]

yo gwh how's life , sounds like you doing good.

load up on banna's they really help restless leg,along with leg spasams and charlie horses,
i used to take calsium magniusm for leg spasams when i played a lot of serious basketball, the banna's have a lot of potasium in them.they really help.

the usa olimpic committee doctor highly recomended calsium-magnisum to all the olimpic athletes for restless leg and leg spasams.

peace !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and keep up the good work.
your in my prayers.
p.s when i got clean years ago i prayed for myself the firest year and nothing seemed to happen, in my second year clean
it was suggested that i pray for other's ,well i took the suggestion and it radicaly changed my life, and everything that could go right did,  just a suggestion.  peace

[hellbent]

A quick note on the benzos for sleep during opiate w/d thing. Whatever benefit you reap, you will have to suffer the inverse of that benefit when you go off them. Ideally, one can use them for 2-3 weeks at low levels during acute opiate detox, then, taper off. This is a perfect situation, and as such would be very effective. Now, how many addicts can manage their meds perfectly? And how many who are currently on them have gone off them before without going insane? I'm not being facetious, but I am curious. Those things, for me, have little recreational value, but they are an incredibly viscious kick.

[1fortheroad]

hi - i too am in the boston area, and i still haven't found an addition dr.  i've been looking for over a year.  if you come across someone good, would you mind posting his/her name?  thanks and good luck!

[DowninPA]

I posted my story yesterday and see it was deleted.
Had heard that this is done by the people running the site sometimes because the post is not relevant or inappropriate..or whatever.

My post was about struggling with alcohol abuse, coupled with ativan, pot and depression.

I don't understand why that would be deleted?

Any help?

Thanks

Ellie

[hippy]

just wondering if you were ok, how's the job going

[the mick]

Pain killer withdrawl is tough.  The longer you are addicted, the more severe the withdrawl.  It is good you only got up to 8 pills a day.  The best thing to do is to wean yourself off of them.  The physical withdrawl will only last a few days, but the mental part is the hardest.  Think of it as a break up of a relationship.  The first week or so, all you think about is your ex, and wanting to call him or her.  But, if you stay strong, you get over it in time.  Just think of the pain pills as a pain in the ass ex-boyfriend who never has any money and ruins your life, and think about how much better you could be without them.
                                              The Mick

[lastleg]

Hi there list.

i'm still wrestling with the "tapering" thing to get off of the 40mg oxy's and the vicoprofen.  I've heard a lot about Methodone clinics?  Does Methadone work?  How do I find a clinic near me?  (Northern New Jersey)  What do I tell them when I go there?  How often to they give out your methadone?  Once a day? Once a week?

Thanks,

Lastleg

[Waking up]

I'm not sure if anybody here can answer this question, i have been taking nortriptline and methadone for chronic back pain on both medicines they say that they may cause weight gain. Can anyone tell me why they make you gain weight, is it because you crave more sweets, more food, or do they alter some kind of chemistry that makes you gain weight? Any answers appreciated.

[MissyD]

Hi,
  I loved the analogy of the pain in the ass boyfriend.  I am (and hubby) on day 4 and we were just saying how we are seeing things so differently.  I am a full-time student AGAIN and I was able to study with another student today.  I wouldn't have been able to do that if I didn't have my little pills.  Today I did it, and I laughed, I mean really laughed and talked and enjoyed myself.  The trees even look brighter.  I am overwhelmed by the housework but I need to let that go for a few days as it just too much.  But I had to say that I am seeing my world through clear eyes and it looks beautiful.  I miss my EX(pills) when I pause long enough to think about it, but I am enjoying the freedom of not having to revolve my every movement around it(pills).  It's freeing.  I need to keep this feeling and run with it.  I hurt more and I am not hungry (needed to lose some/a lot of weight anyway) so that is that....I hope that everyone is doing well and I am here to tell you that if you just give your body and break it will be so much better.  I know it's early on and I have a long way to go, but I am holding each free day like it is magical.  I am seeing a new morning free from reaching over and taking 4 pills to get my day going...I am laughing:) and if feels good.  
  The one thing that I need to say that is a real bummer is to see where we are financially it is not good.  But hey it will get better..but it's scary right now because for a change, we actually care.  It's weird to really care, to really feel, to really be a part of your day...it's like I have been just floating in and out of my days...anyone understand?  OK I have rambled on enough.  I would love some words to keep my strength going and my (our) motivation strong...
Missy

[the mick]

Methadone does work, but it is just as addictive as any other narcotic pain medication.  If you start a Methadone clinic, you will have to be weaned off of the Meth as well.  It would probably be best to just wean yourself off of the Oxys and Vicoprofin.  I was up to 3 Oxycontin 80mg's a day.  Worked down to 1 40mg.  My doctor now has me on Ultram, but I have to wean myself off of that now.  Call your doctor or local Health Center to get more info.  
                  The Mick

[the mick]

I know what you mean about floating in and out of your days.  All you really care about or think about is taking some pills, and chilling out.  The longer you stay sober, the better things will get.  It's good you are back in school, that is my next step as well.  I flunked out of University of Maryland because of those damn Oxycontin.  Anyway, it sounds like you are on the right track.  Good luck.
                        The Mick

[billyk]

I see the Dr. tom. to help me get off a 6yr 100mg a day habit from lortab. What should I expect? I am nervous as a wet cat. I have been able to get off the Xanax (4mg a day) and speed all by myself in the last year, but the Lortab has been giving me all kinds of trouble to get off of. I can't wait, but have no idea what to expect, any input would be greatly appreciated.

[tex3]

Hi Missy. You're feeling that great new love that comes with getting clean, when, as corny as it sounds, the sky really is bluer. Treasure that and remember it, especially when/if the cravings hit, which I hate to say but they usually do. Realize how free you are now; it's great, huh? When I was still taking pills, I would wake up in the morning and literally already be in withdrawal. I would have to swallow three pills and lay there for 30 minutes before I could move. And that was after taking a big dose right before sleeping, along with a clonidine to make it last (prescribed by doc). I was chained to those suckers. And if I had a bad day at work, I'd swallow another handful. So being free of all that is a gem in itself.

Billy, your doctor will probably try to wean you, if possible. I was never able to taper and had to go cold. But my doctor did give me a "cocktail" to get through the detox, and it saved my life. Been through too many WDs without it. The cocktail was clonidine, phenobarb, bentyl, zanaflex, every six hours, plus remeron to sleep. Couldn't function but it beat the WD jitters anyday. If you need info on what each was for, post and I'll answer here. Good luck and be honest with your doctor. I had to ask mine to call the pharmacy and cancel a refill I had for norco. Later I actually called the pharmacy to see if it was there, and was thankful I'd made the request.
tracy

[earlygrayce]

i just finished reading your post on rls and i wanted to let you know i have the same type of problem. i have been off opiates for about 2 and 1/2 months and i am still experiencing severe rls to the point where it is difficult to stay still (particularly at night in bed). i have posted that on this board before and mentioned the fact that i think it is a result of the long term pill use i had. my comments were met by a couple of suprising posts that basically said i was wrong and/or overreacting. whatever. drugs and drug withdrawal effect many people many different ways, and while there are people out there who were addicted much longer and much worse than i was who didn't experience this problem, that does not mean it doesn't exist. i have met with two dr.'s who told me this was because of my addiction and said it could be quite a while before it goes away (several months possibly). but that is just me. some people on this board who are not dr.'s or trained in any medicine post things concerning drug addiction like they are fact and with no exceptions. however, not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic and not everyone who trys a drug gets hooked.

my point is people and the way they are, the way they react to situations, and even their symptoms of addiction or withdrawal, are often very, very different. in this case, it sounds like we have something in common and i just wanted you to know you are not alone.

[1fortheroad]

hi - i'm sorry you had a bad experience here in the past.  there are a lot of "experts" here, but like you said, they aren't trained in the addiction field.  i've made that point before too.  that being said, take whatever positive things you can from people's posts, and just ignore the rest. i didn't let that aspect of the forum drive me away - if this place can help you at all, please stay.

i don't know anything about rls.  i never experienced it, but i know gwh has always had a hard time with it.  i think someone mentioned potassium as something that helped.  you could probably do a search and find something on the topic. there are  many symptoms of withdrawal that i seem not to get.  the main things for me are the chills (big time), sweating, the runs, serious anxiety, stomach cramps and depression and lethargy.  the last two last awhile for me, and they are the hardest for me to overcome.

stick around...even with its many flaws, this board and some of its members has saved me from falling off the wagon many times. i never would have imagined that i would receive such empathy and emotional support from virtual strangers.

[mrmichael67]

I also live in NJ.  I know where one is.  E-mail me at ***@****.

[1fortheroad]

hi - most methadone clinics (in ma anyway) make people come in every, single day to get their meds.  only after months and months of clean drug tests and stuff do they allow take-homes.  even then, they don't make it easy for people.  plus, all the red tape to get into one of these clinics is enough to make somone give up.  in ma, there is at least a 6-month waiting list to get into any of these places.  trust me, i have called them all.  at one point, i entertained the thought of trying to go the methaone route.  at this point, i am very glad i didn't.  

i know that in other states, like ca, there are clinics everywhere and you can get dosed the same day you call.  that is not the case in ma - not even close.  i don't know very much about nj tho.

have you done a lot of research on methadone maintenance?  if you haven't, you probably should.  if the rules in nj are anything like here in ma, methadone maintenance becomes a lifestyle...getting in the car every morning to drive to get your meds isn't a fun way to begin your day. plus, from what i've heard from people, they treat you like **** in most places.

i'm not trying to talk you out of it, i just wanted to give you some more info that you might not have had.  some people feel it is trading one addiction for another - some people swear by it and say it saved their life.  if it was easier to obtain here in ma, i probably wouldn't feel so negatively about it....good luck in whatever route you decide to take.

[OxyDout]

Hey, don't give me that **** about keeping your mouth shut, your a main reason i come here, so KEEP TALKING, I just got confused is all, and I obviously didn't get the joke with the car........ sometimes I can be slow, but either way, "I'm gonna love you and there aint nothing you can do about it"  ......... SO CUT IT OUT, AND DON'T EVER APOLOGIZE FOR SAYING ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OxyDout]

Earlygrayce, I don't think anyone try's to act like they know it all, we are all just anxious to give our 2 cents and hopefully help someone, you know?? I don't doubt that this RLS might last for a couple of months, but I can't let it get to me, I'm already getting used to it......... but thank you for your post, I do appreciate it, I hope you can stay strong, YOU CAN'T GIVE IN, of course you know that better then I do, 2.5 months, thats incredible!!!

Hippy, I have tried eating more bananas, but I don't think it helps, I don't know, I will keep trying.  I think praying for others is a great thing, my mother is in our church chior and on the prayer line....... she tells me that I need to pray for others all the time, so I will give it a shot.  

OH, the one thing I didn't want to say is that I relapsed yesterday, I took 20mg of oxycontin, and I felt like **** the whole day, but I guess thats not too bad for 12 days.  I felt much better today, I woke up and got to work early.  

I MIGHT BE SIGNING MY PAPER WORK TODAY FOR MY CAR!!!!

- I have never felt so miserable then I did last night, I took a peace of a 40 that someone broke off for me, it wasn't quite 20mg, it was more like 15mg, but the point was, I took it! I actually tried to throw it up, but considering it was tiny, it wasn't going to happen.  Anyway, I didn't feel anything, but I couldn't believe I even took it.  Hopefully god is watching, because I still feel like I can do this, and I KNOW I WANT TO DO IT!!! where there is a will theres a way.........

[skipper]

gwh:
go to your doctor and get a Rx to Baclofen, 10mg. this drug is a
neural muscle relaxer, and should provide you with relief from
RLS at night. my pain doc claims a once a day 10 mg. dose is too
small to cause addiction problems. this drug is as close as it
gets to non-abusive. it will really help you sleep too.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[MissyD]

Sweetie, please don't let a little slip ruin your resolve.  I hear it in your voice, you can do this, you are doing this.  SO you made a mistake, you just jump back on and keep going.  I hope that is what someone would tell me.  Today is my day 5.  So know that you are doing great and we are watching you, and following your great success.  Keep up the good work and know many of us are right on your heels and your words have meant so much to us. Thank you...we are all human after all...
lots of love,
Missy

[scared in so cal]

Congrats on your success! I think the fact that you were so upset that you took the oxy is very important. I'd be much more worried if you had taken the situation casually.

[ash]

once again i find myself back where i should be. I want to apologize for not posting. I am very dissappointed and angry that i relapsed, once again. Its good to see new people here getting the help they desire. basically day one for me today. aaaarrrgggghhh. im doing the recipe this time, never tried it before. Does anyone know if flexoril is a benzo? Im taking it to ease some of the w/d from what ive read here w/d from benzos can be dangerous. I just don't want to swap drugs. I figure if i use them for a week. Is ambien a benzo too, i have some of those to help with the sleep. If anyone can help i really apprecciate it. Just a quick hi to skipp, tex 3, hippy, gwh and all . thank you.    

Ash

[OxyDout]

thank you for the post, I really appreciated it, your way too nice.  I feel in limbo right now, I don't know where I stand, no motivation, no goals, just kind of living.......... going through the steps. I'm supposed to go into Boston tonight, but I don't have any energy, although its only a 5 minute ride........ I don't know, anyway, thanks again.

GWH

[MissyD]

Hi gwh,
  I hear the total lack of drive in your post and I so understand it, I am off to take my final in about an hour and where I am going to find the motivation to get into the car and go and do it I am feeling like I just don't know.  All I do know is I have 5 days without meds in me and I want this life.  I am not going to stand here and say that I am so strong and I can get through all this, but I am going to say that I am taking this minute by minute.  I am tired and I hate the way my house looks right now and the way I look.  But I am getting better.  Funny thing is, I am getting a really bad stomach ache and the good OLE runs.  I can't really eat and sleep.  So I almost feel like I was doing better on day 3.  But hey it is getting better...I have to do this and you know you can do it too.we are here for each other.  This group is just amazing and I feel so lucky to have them.  You included:)  

   Ash...Good for you ..And hang in there you can do this.  I don't know about the meds you mentioned but I am sure someone here does.  Good luck and keep us posted.
Missy :)

[Kritty]

Hi
I know that Flexerall is a muscle relaxer and ambien is a sleep aid not a benzo. However, my suggestion to you is to go to a doctor you have not been to and tell him everything and they will help you with the withdrawals that is what I did the other day. I will tell you what, it was definitely weird to be in a doctor's office without the intention of getting Vicodin's but I was honest. Please don't do this alone if you don't have to. I have been doing my own research and you never know how your body will react. you may have a seizure or a stroke. God forbid but it can happen. I just recenly was working as a case manager for Traumatic Brain Injured individuals, however, it did not scare me enough to stop taking 10-12 extra strength Vic's a day but I ralized it now. I know I never want to give myself a brain injury through drug use or alcohol and believe me I had some clients that have drank themselves to a brain injury. Scary HUH!!!

Take care and I am here if you want to talk!! I am not working right now basiclly detoxing from home and using this forum as support.

[skipper]

ash:
your back! good! flexiril is in the same family of drugs as thor-
azine and phenergan. i took it for over 3 years and then stopped
before my last surgery. no w/d's. it may help you sleep at night.
hey, it's safe and beter than nothing. what have you got to lose?
i'm glad your on the recipe this time. i'll bet you notice the
difference.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[alexandra_r]

Hi--

I've been going through vicodin withdrawal--and thought that I was doing pretty well--been weaning myself off slowly.  I have plenty to do this, so I don't understand why I did what I did today . . . probably just addiction, but I feel _so_ bad.

We're buying a house and we went looking today.  I went into one of the bathrooms (the people are still in the house) and opened up the medicine cabinet.  There was a bottle of percocet and also a bottle of xanax.  I didn't take the percocet because I really am trying to get off the vicodin, but I took about 10 of the xanax, because I thought it would be helpful at night so I can sleep.  That's the worst time for me--and I don't take anything to help me sleep at night.

However, now I am feeling really guilty--I haven't taken any yet, but I am sure I will tonight.  I used to do this kind of **** when I was addicted to junk years and years ago, but haven't done anything like it since.  I know I should tell my boyfriend, but I know he won't understand why I took them--he's completely straight (he tried coke in the 80's and a gram lasted him a month!)

I used to go to AA and NA when I was kicking junk and stayed with that program for about 3 years.  It really helped me for a long time but I drifted away.  For about 7 years, I drank wine with dinner occasionally, but never had a problem with alcohol (I don't like more than 1 glass of wine or else I feel sick).  Because I was drinking occasionally, I stopped going to AA, but stayed clean for about 7 more years, until I injured my back and was put on vicoding about 13 months ago.    

I feel really crappy about stealing the benzo's and I don't want to get involved with them--I just saw them and though !SLEEP!  *sigh*  I guess I needed to confess and don't feel that I want to come clean with the boyfriend on this just yet.

[Waking up]

I'm not sure if you know this but stealing other peoples perscription medicine illegal, don't be too proud of yourself for not taking the percocet also, if you didn't.

[OxyDout]

Waking up - yes its illegal but so isn't pretty much everything we have done as addicts, I would be lying if I said I have never taken prescribed drugs, and I know most of us have......... I'm not saying this in anger, I know its hard to interpret through typing......just saying most of us have done it....

Alexandra, don't worry about it, but I do have to say, if there were a bottle of percoset and xanax, I would have taken the percoset, and I get very doubtful that you didn't......... only because I know I would have taken it as well as any addict..........

[alexandra_r]

Waking Up:  You know, I really don't need you to tell me that what I did was wrong.  I felt really bad about it which is why I posted (honestly) on this stupid board.  I felt terrible--I don't think anywhere in my post did I mention feeling proud of myself for not taking the percocet when I took the xanax.  I've tried hard not to judge other people too harshly--especially when they live in a glass house!  Are you so perfect that you can criticize others so freely?

GWH:  I really didn't take the percocet--why would I lie about that when I confessed to taking the xanax?  That doesn't make any sense at all.  The reason I took the xanax is because I thought it would help me with the withdrawal from vicodin.  I have about 30 vikes left in my last script with a refill that I could have gotten filled a couple of days ago (but I am weaning--and doing it successfully), so don't plan to do that.  I have no desire for percocet--I just wanted to blissful sleep.

[1fortheroad]

i understand what skipper was trying to say i think.  i've seen you, gwh, try so hard for a couple weeks...put yourself thru the misery of w/d's...and then slip back into the same pattern.  you probably need to change more things than just not taking the pills...maybe going to meetings or counseling.  i myself can go thru the physical detox part...it's the rest that really gets to me.  that's why everyone i'm close to knows about what's going on with me - i need them to know and i need to talk about it with them. i occasionally go to meetings - should go more and probably will go more.  i've been looking for a good counselor and think i'm narrowing in on one - i know i need that. i took a part-time job helping single, homeless mothers find jobs and places to live.  a lot of these women have drug problems.  i thought it would help me stay clean, and i really believe that by helping others, you help yourself.  i'm no do-gooder...i'm just doing what feels right to me.

anyhow gwh, i hope you can hear what i'm saying and you take it in the context it was meant.

[Tessa]

I think YOU need to wake up and not judge other people!!  Alexandra_r came here to tell her story (like everyone else) and not be judged.  Especially as harshly as you did...Totally uncalled for in my book.  Like she said, I'm sure YOU'RE not perfect either....Ummmmmmm, maybe that's why we're HERE!  Also, if she said she didn't take the percs, then she didn't....So what?!  Who are you to say "you're not so sure she didn't" and if she did....So What!!!  Geez....rough crowd......

[jennyfla]

Hope all is well!!!
It is so scarey how true it is about life going by so quickly while caught in a world of addiction.
I'm afraid i'm going to blick or wake up one morning and find that my children are all grown up and gone.
Actually, each morning that i 'just wake up' is a good morning to me lately.  I can't even say that i'm slowly killing myself with these drugs because it's changed into i'm quickly killing myself, and i know it.
You wonder what it actually takes for a person to get clean.
They can loose everything and anything around them that they ever cared about, but all that counts is that high.
Before too long, they are so caught up in it all, they can't even find their way back out.
Yes, i'm holding my own personal pity party, but they never last.
Take care of yourself and your sweet wifey!
Lv Jenny

[Tessa]

Just wondering what your story is!  It sounds like you're struggling and just wanted to let you know that, if you need to vent....I'd like to hear it!!!  I'm sure you've probably posted it before (duh!) and I probably even read it---just forgot!!

[alexandra_r]

Thanks Tessa for the support--I was beginning to think I shouldn't have even posted on this board.  I am very disappointed with myself--it brings back memories from TEN years ago (I haven't stolen medication from anyone's medicine cabinet since I cleaned up from heroin ten years ago).  I got addicted to vicodin following a serious back injury--I really am trying to quit.  If I have the willpower to wean myself when I have PLENTY of vicodin of my own to jell out on, then why can't I have the willpower to not steal more of the same kind of medication that I am trying desperately to get off of.

One last note--to Waking Up--As I have said, I have struggled with all the horror of addiction before and I no NO ONE (not one person) who has not done something illegal--even if it was "just" driving while intoxicating.  At least what I did didn't kill or injure anyone (except myself).  Of course, I realize it is illegal to steal anything from anyone--but it is much more the moral implication and the setback in my own mind that bothers me the most.

[OxyDout]

wow, I just got my head torn off.....haha, tessa I didn't mean that in a harsh manner, I even wrote that in my post, i said i'm not writing this in anger............. all i meant is that ALL OF US ADDICTS are or have been very deceiptful, and at one point or another we have lied about taking pills, right??? I know I have which is why I find it hard to believe when anyone sees a bottle of perc's that they can just leave them there. HOLD ON, I'm not saying I don't believe her I'm just explaining myself.  I do apologize, I never jump on anyone, I never try to question people, and I really didn't mean to do that hear, I apologize, so please don't yell at me..........ok?

Groovy, I completely hear what your saying, I took it in a good light and I know our right, I keep killing myself over and over, but I feel like I have a handle on it this time, wait a minute, I said that last time............. I definitely need to find something, but I don't think I'm a meeting person.............. any other suggestions, and thank you for caring, it means a lot.

GWH

[Tessa]

I, for one, am glad you posted your story. At first I didn't give it a second thought, but now that you mentioned your trip to the "medicine cabinet" it reminded me of something horrible that I did.  About 6 months ago, my sister had major surgery and her doctor had given her  HUGE bottles of percs.  I thought (at the time) that I was in heaven! I took A LOT of them...kept going over to visit her, seeing if she was OK...yeah, right, it was for the pills!!!  that's all i could think about.  Talk about HORRIBLE!  I feel so bad about that, that I actually blocked it out...couldn't deal with the fact that i was such an *******!!  So, see, it's good that you posted today becuz I really needed the reminder.....Anyway, please don't NOT post just becuz of a harsh reply----honesty like yours helps many.
Thanks,
Ann-Marie

[Tessa]

sorry, having an extremely ROUGH day, should probably just stay SILENT today!!....Anyone care to join my pity party???  :(

[hellbent]

Next time you lift meds, make sure you don't leave prints.

I'm half kidding, of course. We are addicts and we pursue drugs. The need can be extraordinary, and it's often not really a moral choice. It's cool you could talk about it. Good luck.

[Hinkster]

Your post was not deleted it is down under Anyone Struggling
two posts down. Just scroll down a bit. We don't ignore anyone.
Tom

[ash]

kitty,
thanks for your words, but this isnt the first time ive gone through w/ds. it might be 20 or 30 maybe more. But this will be the first time i use Thomas recipe. I hope you are well.

  
skipper,

Good to be back my friend. i see new people here. that's great. im really glad your here too. it's recipe time. Its time to be happy and enjoy life. Let me know how things are. thank you for being here.

ash

[OxyDout]

I do, don't worry about it, no need to stay silent, voicing an opinion is always thought provoking. How have you been.

[Tessa]

I'm great, fantastic, couldn't be better....yeah, right. That's a LIE!!! :)  (for some reason i'm feeling very sarcastic today) Like I said, it's a really bad day...Just can't seem to be able to deal with ANYTHING today!  So, what day are you on today? 11?  How the RLS?  I can't even imagine how you are able to deal with it for so long.  The longest I ever went thru it was 2 or 3 nights. And that was HELL!  Are you taking anything for it now? I know someone suggested a medicine that would help...can't for the life of me remember what it was!  Do you have a Dr that would prescribe for you?  
How are your spirits today?

[1fortheroad]

hi - i just wanted to tell you that i have stolen many pills in my life - even when i was 14 or 15 i was stealing my dad's valium.  throughout the years, if i ever came across percs or vics at someone's house, i would take a few.  i didn't have a problem with them at that point, but i loved to use them recreationally.  over the past couple years, since i've developed this addiction, i have taken from people and i carry a lot of guilt about it.  i have had many desperate moments in the two years - i'm so glad to be away from all that.  

i wish you luck with the tapering...i think most addicts don't have the discipline to do it - they cheat.  i've tried it many times and have always failed.  if you find yourself cheating, maybe you could have someone hold them for you and dole them out as needed.  it would have to be someone strong who wouldn't buckle if you started getting mean.  i had my husband try to do that once, and if i wanted more than i was supposed to have i would get so nasty with him...finally, i gave up on the idea...saved my marriage probably.  anyhow, i tried a different route using buprenex, and that has worked well for me.  

good luck, and don't stress about the past...i know, easy for me to say right?

[jennyfla]

Hi Tessa,
Thank you for having an interest in my pitiful life.
I used to be a heavy poster a while back, last year i posted a lot.
My story basically is the same as most of the others.
I'm an opiate addict, unwilling to change my ways and clean up my act.  My husband is also an opiate addict which makes the equation that much more complicated.
I'm a mom of three children all under the age of 10, and i love them with all my heart and hope to be here to care for them and watch them grow up.
I'm affraid that my addiction is getting away from me and i am killing myself at a rapid rate.  
I've crossed so many lines and done things that i never thought i was capable of.  
I just need to find the strength to do what i need to do for me, so i visit this forum and read the stories and try to gather strength.
Best of luck to you!
Lv Jenny

[Tessa]

Why did you start on opiates?  Was it recreational or do you have pain issues?  I have endometriosis, that started me on my LONG path of abuse...I am fortunate to have my babygirl (she will be one year old this month!) at the ripe old age of 30!!  Just kidding, it could be worse! But, it took awhile to get pregnant becuz of the endo...had to go thru infertility BS! That sucked! Anyway, she means the world to me and hopefully her mom will clean up her act soon!

[skipper]

hey everone:
i want to start out by welcoming all the new posters. there will
always be room for just one more addict here, so come on in. i find
it real difficult somedays to NOT be judgemental. i don't like it
when i am judgemental. the reasion for this (and i'm speaking of
myself only) is when i am judgemental i am telling myself a lie.
i've been posting here for about a year and several times i've kind of told the story of my addiction. i went the street heroin and methadrine route for a while. all i can say is i hated most of the drug-dealers and their hanger-ons. i was so turned off by the typical drug dealer mentality that i took to ripping off drug stores and clinics. i went for over a decade working my way up and down the upper mississippi doing B&E of small town drug stores. everything was going fine until i started to believe i would never get caught....then i got caught. but that isn't what i want to talk about. what i want to talk about is the price i've wound up paying. the price i still pay. i'm not talking about some convict paying their debt to society either...i'm talking about the memory of all the fun i thought i was having...imagine, all the easily injectable stuff- dilaudid,MS,neumorphan... sometimes so much i felt like a fish swimming in the happy waters
of good life. to this day this memory haunts me...hell it dam
near drives me crazy some days...

but the real kicker is, while i was shooting all that stuff i
never once gave a thought as to what i would do if i ever really
needed that ****...and guess what today i do. sort of have too
much fun now and pay later (really pay!).

today, it's a real fine line between exasperated concern and be-
ing judgemental...how can i judge someone else's addiction with-
out judging myself also?

nope...today i love and respect myself too much to want to go to
the fallowed fields of my past...and believe me if i judge some-
one else i go there...

one parting thought for all of you...i'm going to love and care
for all of you and there just isn't one damm thing any of you can
do about that!!

jenny:
i'll try to return your e-mail tomarrow...i've been real busy at
work (where i e-mail from).

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[scared in so cal]

I've seen you talk about doing a B&E on a drugstore. I don't understand what that is. Can you fill me in? Just curious.

[GOD]

I can answer what "B & E" on a drug store is:

You actually LIVE there... you are Bathing and Eating there....


LOL

B&E is Breaking and Entering....

Have a nice night!
Jess

[tex3]

Alexandra, I applaud your honesty even while I'm ashamed to admit I've done the same thing. Hell, sometimes I still peak inside cabinets, hating myself all the while. I block that out of my mind, or the guilt overwhelms me. I guess I need to deal with it, and I will, but not yet. I'm staying clean and that's what I'm focusing on right now, although I realize I need to face my past behavior. Just know you aren't alone, I bet a poll would show many of us have done this exact thing.

GWH, how's the leg? That was always my very worst WD symptom, along with the deep muscle spasms and bone pain. Zanaflex completely took it away, but also knocked me out. However, I'd much rather be asleep than bouncing all over the room. And by the way, congratulations! You're doing great, don't slip now, or let the episode with the pill take you down. The more distance you get between you and the drugs, the better, and then you can work on the mental stuff. Stay strong, my friend.

Jenny, good to see you posting, hang in there, I've been having a pity party today too, but reading all the posts here reminds me that I'm not alone in this struggle.

Ash, I'm glad you're posting again and hope you're feeling okay. Remember how much better you'll feel a week from today. That helped me get through those early days.

Tessa, your story is very close to mine. If you ever want to talk, let me know.

And Skipper, captain of this vessel, always great to see your knowlege and wisdom! It's good knowing something good came of all those years, huh? Seriously, I hope your pain is not too bad. How are you doing these days?

[Waking up]

I'm so sorry if my comment in retrospect i realize that the post did'nt come out exactly the way i wanted it too, but believe it or not but some people do not realize that taking other peoples perscription is a crime, like me about 2 years ago i woked in a popular hotel as a manager, in the morning it was my job before the maids came in to clean for the day i had to chck all the rooms that were labeled as check-out rooms. On more than one occasion not only the people not in the rooms but they left their scripts behind, i'm ashamed to say i knew it was wrong, but i did not know it was illegeal, pretty stupid right? So i guess what i'm trying to say is please know that i did not try to make you feel like you shouldn't feel that you can yourself here not because of something stupid that i said. I have'nt even got the nerve to tell my story yet.

[AlexisInTx]

Hello all.  I was wondering how long does recovery take?  I realize that the physical symptoms of withdrawal will vary depending upon how long, how much and what was taken (I was taking 9 Norco daily for 11 months), but I'm still experiencing *extreme* fatigue, depression and mental cravings.  My last dose was May 25, 2002 (about 1.5 months ago) and I thought that this would be over in 1-2 weeks!

I also have to mention that I was prescribed Xanax (just 1 pill at bedtime for insomnia) for 3 months and went through sheer and utter hell for 3-4 months after going cold turkey (didn't know how dangerous this could be at the time, and by the time I did know, I was out of the woods danger-wise).  

I would hate to think that these protracted symptoms from hydro that I'm experiencing will go on for many more months - I used to work out 6x a week, eat very healthy and do all that needed to be done (at work, around the house, with the kids), now it seems as if I don't have any energy to do anything.

Any advice would be appreciated if you can relate....

[skipper]

AlexisInTx:
welcome to the forum, always room for one more junky here. your
question is an age old one. it's just part of a bigger question, is
there life after drugs. there is, at least i believe there is.

if an addict wants freedom, than the addict must give up control
(which in a sense is a partial loss of freedom). want to do some-
thing about lethergy? well do something then. get back to the gym!
stop waiting to feel beter and start acting like you do. see it's
real SIMPLE. to bad it isn't easy. what ya gonna do, wait on the
person/place/thing to make it all better? you would be beter off
going back to the poision of your choice. things don't change for
me unless i put effort into them...sooner or later i got sick of
waiting for them too. it's a *****, but what other options do you have.

keep an angel on your shoulder

[skipper]

hey:
get in on a good deal now!
i'm developing a breed of miniture weasel that can live inside of a
"one month size bottle of lorcet 10. this ultra vicious little
beast will fly out of the bottle when it is opened and shred the nose of the unsuspecting addict hoping to hitch a free ride to god's green pastures. i'm having trouble with the little ****** though, he won't let me to the bottle of lorset either. in fact i have very little skin left on my nose. i tell ya' all more about
it, but i'm off to the doctor. see i'm getting me some pain pills
for this awful condition on my nose. this could last a long, long
time........
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[AlexisInTx]

Thanks, skipper. I have wrestled with this particular question for awhile now (or so it seems - can you see me playing my tiniest of violins?  I thought you could. :) )  I've also been reading throughout the forum since I asked that question and I see that it's a question that's been asked time and again.  I actually thought someone would say, "just give it 1 month, 25 days and 6 hours and you'll be back to your former, before drug-usage self, good as new".

I have tried working out, and actually accomplished it more than 6 times since I've quit, but I haven't actually 'felt' better afterward.  I used to really look forward to taking those pills, and I always wonder why - sometimes it seems as if I have nothing to look forward to anymore (whine).  But the toll they take -- the feeling of not being able to get up in the morning, the counting of pills, the mood swings, the damage to your body, etc., not worth it.

[skipper]

alexis:
exercise anyway. things will get beter. the only hitch is things
will not get beter on you time table. like i said before, it's a
*****, but what ya' gonna do?

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[tex3]

Hi and welcome! Things will gradually look up. Remember how long you abused your body, and in that respect it's really amazing that it doesn't take even longer to get it back together. That said, one thing that really helps is the recipe. As soon as I started taking the supplements (although admittedly I only take a few, not the whole thing) my energy level and enthusiasm for life really turned around. Try it; you've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. You can find it in any of many posts on here, or post a comment asking for it. I take a strong multi-vitamin and the l-tyrosone, but not the other stuff, and it really helps me. Hang in there, keep posting, take skipper's advice to force yourself to do the things you know you need to do but don't want to, be patient, and you'll get there. The cravings might still hit you from left field (I got vicious ones this week) but even these are intermittent for many.
tracy

[AlexisInTx]

Hi - I was looking up the 'recipe' here and also did some research on the web and came up with some interesting information on L-Tyrosine and B-complex vitamins (taken along with a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement).  I know that this has already been discussed here, but has anyone read Dr. Slagle's, "The Way Up From Down"?  The book is supposed to give you natural treatments (that include a Co-Enzyme B Complex, Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate, Vitamin C and tyrosine) to treat depression that can result from prescription medication.  I found her website last night and it gives you a recipe as well, is this the one?:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
1.With meals - be sure to be taking a good multi-vitamin mineral as directed on the label.

2.With breakfast - take 1-2 Co-Enzyme B Complex

3.With dinner - take 1 Vitamin C.

4. Upon arising on an empty stomach - take 1-4 tyrosine capsules or 1/2 to 1 tsp of powder at least 1/2 hr or more before eating but may use with fruit - just no protein.  As needed, if not adequate results after 1 week can add a mid morning between meals repeat dose of tyrosine. As needed if not adequate results after 1 more week can add a third dose to be taken mid-afternoon between meals.

5.With each dose of tyrosine take 1 Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if this is repeat information, but I wanted to see if this was what everyone is talking about.  I already take a good multi-vitamin/mineral and also use flaxseed, juice (carrot, citrus, etc.) 2x a day, eat whole foods, etc., but this particular regimen really intrigues me.    

Thanks for bringing this up, I'm definitely going to try it.

Alexis

[alexandra_r]

Working out is one of the best things that you can do to get yourself back to normal.  I am _forcing_ myself to do this every day, but it is very hard.  The benefit is not really immediate.  Why working out is so beneficial:  When you become addicted to opiates, your body stops producing endorphins (which are your body's own natural painkillers).   This is why withdrawal from opiates is so painful--if a normal person did not have endorphins, he/she would be in pain all the time.  When you stop taking the opiates, your body has to "learn" to make the endorphins again.  Exercise increases endorphin production and will help your body to get to the point where it is once again producing endorphins.

Keep at it--even walking helps--but the harder you can work out the better.

[mrmichael67]

Working out is definitely the best thing to get the endorphins going again.  It is a shame that they haven't come up with an endorphin supplement yet.  I am sure that will happen in the future.  They have done pain studies with natural endorphins and they of course work excellent.  It just so happens when a 'normal' person gets hurt bad, the body doesn't produce enough of them to work well enough.

[AlexisInTx]

Yes, those natural endorphins are what I'm striving for now.  I get dizzy when trying to exercise longer than 5-10 minutes and I'm still dealing with pain, so I'm going to take it it small increments.  

I really was an avid exerciser before w/d's - would take a 90 minute advanced stepping class at the gym, would have my husband spot me with lifting -- I hate to see my muscle tone deteriorate and my strength leave :(  But most of all, I think that the feeling I got during/after working out is something I was really seriously addicted to.  I did tend to push myself a little harder than I should have because I was taking those Norco's - they gave me abundant energy and I wouldn't feel the pain of my herniated disks (L4/L5) so I could push myself harder (not a good thing), and now I'm dealing with the repurcussions from that.

[alexandra_r]

Your exercise story sounds very familiar to me--I also have a herniated disc on L4 - L5, which was hitting up against my sciatic nerve when it became inflamed.  After more than a year of physical therapy, yoga, etc, I believe I can manage the pain with ibuprofen.  It's a real struggle now because I am tapering the vikes and now my back is hurting.  psychosomatic? perhaps, but perhaps not, but I want to get off the vikes permanently--I don't think the dose I was taking was really helping the pain anymore anyway--I was using them the last 6 months just to avoid the inevitable withdrawal.  Good luck--I am also addicted to working out--but at least it I don't go through w/d when I miss a day!

[DearDawn]

First time on board ... hello.  I'm up late on the internet because I was looking for ways to ease Lortab withdrawals.  I am experiencing the restless legs as we speak and can not sleep.  I have to find a way to stop this and get some rest.  Any ideas?  I saw a few suggestions but is there anything else?  I am so miserable.  I have a 4 year old daughter and the withdrawals are making it extremely difficult to be a Mom.  I'm sure some of you will understand.  I don't have any other withdrawal symptons other than the RLS and it's making me feel as if I'm losing my mind.  HELP!!  The sad part is that I am just waiting on my next fix.  When my refill becomes available, I'll just keep on using because I can't handle the withdrawals.  I want off these things soooooo bad.  I hate this kind of life!  I am up to 10 Lortab 7.5 per day.  I can get by on less but in order to keep my "buzz" and energy for the day, I have to take 10.  I haven't taken any more than that.  And, by the way, I noticed others writing about stealing drugs from other people's medicine cabinets.  Well,  judge me too then!  I've done it all.  I've faked illnesses, stolen, faked illnesses to my kid's doctor so I can get narcotic cough medicine.  It's really sad.  I could use some serious support and suggestions to easing the withdrawals.  I'm dead set on beating this but if I can't ease the withdrawals at least a little bit, I'll just keep on using when my refill becomes available.  Thanks guys for listening.  I look forward to your comments even the judgemental ones even though I don't think any of us have any room to judge.  Addiction makes you do things so unlike yourself and you all know it!  Thanks again.

[DearDawn]

First time on board ... hello.  I'm up late on the internet because I was looking for ways to ease Lortab withdrawals.  I am experiencing the restless legs as we speak and can not sleep.  I have to find a way to stop this and get some rest.  Any ideas?  I saw a few suggestions but is there anything else?  I am so miserable.  I have a 4 year old daughter and the withdrawals are making it extremely difficult to be a Mom.  I'm sure some of you will understand.  I don't have any other withdrawal symptons other than the RLS and it's making me feel as if I'm losing my mind.  HELP!!  The sad part is that I am just waiting on my next fix.  When my refill becomes available, I'll just keep on using because I can't handle the withdrawals.  I want off these things soooooo bad.  I hate this kind of life!  I am up to 10 Lortab 7.5 per day.  I can get by on less but in order to keep my "buzz" and energy for the day, I have to take 10.  I haven't taken any more than that.  And, by the way, I noticed others writing about stealing drugs from other people's medicine cabinets.  Well,  judge me too then!  I've done it all.  I've faked illnesses, stolen, faked illnesses to my kid's doctor so I can get narcotic cough medicine.  It's really sad.  I could use some serious support and suggestions to easing the withdrawals.  I'm dead set on beating this but if I can't ease the withdrawals at least a little bit, I'll just keep on using when my refill becomes available.  Thanks guys for listening.  I look forward to your comments even the judgemental ones even though I don't think any of us have any room to judge.  Addiction makes you do things so unlike yourself and you all know it!  Thanks again.

[percsnomas]

your at the right place to start to take your life back..
Get the Thomas Recipe(specifically B-6,L-Tyrosine,Pre-Natal Vitamin,etc...it's posted everywhere) I found bananas worked reasonably well for RLS.

I also have a 4yr old(and a 2yr old)so I can relate; and came off a 3-4yr percocet love affair.

TRUST ME, IT GETS BETTER (with time)
Read everything in here, have lots of hot baths,any exercise will help(even though that probably is the furthest thing on your mind), and just don't be too hard on yourself.

Sounds like your taking the first steps!
ps. there are several other meds that people have used for RLS; just read on...

[JustinTime]

i am reading the different things in here, i am looking for a forums alcohol addiction, maybe i am not in the right area, or something.  i posted a message in another area as well.  yesterday i was not feeling well so stayed home. minor hangover from the nite before, so what do i do..i tell myself i can just get a 6 pack, thats it. 5 hours later it turned into another 6 pack.  it's like, my mind just up and leaves me, no train of thought, so this morning after, almost feels like the scary feeling i had back in april, i physcially felt bad, meaning dizzy, almost fainting, arm/legs feeling heavy. it lasted for 45mins that feeling, with about 20mins of it, having to sit down cause i felt so dizzy.  it scared me, big time, and i don't want that to happen to me again.  i stopped drinking after that, got some help, stayed clean for a little over 2 mths,  and when i started again, i just slowly slipped back to the old ways once again.  i am upset with myself for letting it get to this point again.  yesterday i over did my limit big time, and this is why i am feeling it like this today.  i wish i had a secret button that i could push, and poof, this feeling, this addicton, would be gone.