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Open thread
by mrmichael67, Jun 15, 2003 12:00AM
I am sorry this isn't a question, but we need room to post.
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happy fathers day to all the dads that are here and to all the moms who are raising kids without a dad and are doing it all~
last week i had a dream that i was soooooooo thirsty and no matter how much i drank i could not relieve this intense thirst i had. and last night i had it again. i drank gallons of water, orange juice and milk! and i don't drink milk by itself. but in the dream i didn't even use a glass, drank it right out of the gallon jug... and once again could not relieve my thirst. this is pretty strange!
anybody here know anything interesting about dream symbols?
off to my moms house! mom and the kids don't know it but for the next 4 weeks we are going to be "excavating our authentic selves". i have a fun exercise that i want them to do with me!
peace,
amber
Peace,
Kurt
Doner,
Hopefully, you will continue to feel good. The odds are, you will. From here on out, do slow it down, though. You have been on it long enough for you to be dependent. There aren't any free rides. Your body is probably loving the fact it is getting some nutrients.
He wants to do a little "just to take off the edge" but this does not seem like the logical thing to me but having never been through this i do not know, the hardest thing I ever gave up was pot, and for me being pregnant was enough to give me the will to do that. I love him and I hate watching him go through it is there anything that helps? With no insurance in patient treatment is out and out patient also for that matter.Any advice will be appreciated, thank you.
I was taking 80mgs IV oxy when i began this detox with methadone. Do you think i will be successful when i stop the meth or should i expect w/d to start soon after the meth is gone from my system? Should i begin the thomas recipe now? i have the ingrediants except for the benzo. It has been painless so far. I am begining to worry though since my taper is almost finished.
James
James
Take care,
Sandy
Thanks for the advice @ the dog, Golden. It wasn't worms. I think it was steak, chicken,, cat food, wet cat food ham and ham-hock. I shoulda known better. I did finally call the pharmacist and vet and found that Imodium (immodium) was ok to give the puppy. IF the Imodium (immodium) made a difference, I wulda hated to see the puppy w/o it. She was sick almost 3 days but got her energy back today. Thx for the suggestion. I am overly leery of spoiling the pup w/ table scarps now. A lesson learned, an expensive lesson. The Rugs!
MrM, thx to you for opening up a space just to check in.
I don't have any advice for the 2 probs/concerns mentioned in this thread. I, too, have noticed mainly cravings w/ peeps W/Drawing from coke, but that was a long time ago. The sweats and the rest do sound like Narcs.
Today has been a euphoric day clean. When these days happen, it is as wondrous as the first times high on dope. Maybe knowing that these days do come around will be enuf to keep me away from pills forever, I hope, hope, hope.
`rwc`
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
Thank you sandstorm for the high blood pressure advice that is a big concern for me.
Ideally, your dad should discontinue the cocaine first, as in get it all out of the house and don't leave under any circumstances. Cocaine simply is not a drug you can taper off of. Sure, in between lines we can all say we'll taper first thing tomorrow morning, but it won't ever happen. He'll use what he has until he runs out.
For a week after he stops the coke, the vicodin will help him get through the worst of the cocaine detox. But you should also have some Valium on hand to help him handle the anxiety and insomnia.
His blood pressure condition is the single greatest cause for concern here. I'm not a doctor and I don't know his health history, but I know he will experience elevated blood pressure during withdrawal from cocaine. Valium is indispensable for cocaine detox, but catapres (clonidine), a blood pressure medication, will help even more and give him a little insurance against a blood pressure crisis.
Since he already has the condition, he probably has a blood pressure med on hand, hopefully catapres (clonidine). If he intends to do this at home, obtaining a blood pressure cuff (sphigometer) to monitor his pressure would be highly desirable. Obviously, if he has access to a medical detox, even outpatient, that would be the safest choice of all.
If he makes it through the first week of cocaine detox, he should allow himself another week to stabilize before he tries to get off of the Vicodin. SOME people have the discipline to taper off of pain meds such as Vicodin (I couldn't do it with a gun to my head). Your dad's best chance of successfully tapering off the Vics is for you to hold the Vics and dispense a daily ration based on a schedule you work out in advance and both agree to follow. Don't hide the pills in the house because he'll just tear the place apart looking for them. It's just what we do ...
The Vic taper should be based on a tier schedule, that is, make a small reduction in daily dosage, go 2 or 3 days at that dosage, then make another small reduction, and so on. The lower the daily dosage gets, the smaller the reductions should be and the longer the period before the next reduction. I think you can see just from reading this that your dad will never stick to such a process without your help.
The Recipe for opiate detox is printed, I believe, in this thread (see Jack Daniels -- the poster, not the bottle).
One component of the opiate detox recipe that would be extremely helpful once your dad is through the worst of the cocaine detox is the amino acid L-Tyrosine (taken with 100mg B6 once a day on an empty stomach).
Cocaine causes enormous amounts of the neurotransmitter dopamine to be released in the brain, apprx 100 times the amount released during a normal "reward response." This leads to severe depletion of the brain's dopamine stores. Once the cocaine isn't stimulating dopamine release, your dad will feel like day-old rat **** until his dopamine levels normalize. L-Tyrosine is metabolized into dopamine in the brain, and has been used clinically to help treat cocaine addiction. But again, if he tries it, it would be safest if his blood pressure was monitored.
Good luck to both of you. Post here anytime with any questions you might have.
Thomas
This drug was the biggest fraud perpetrated on the public since Watergate ... it has 2 antidepressants in it ... symptoms are dizziness, sweats, sleeplessness ... and alot more. Read about paxil withdrawal or effexor withdrawal .... very similar. The good news is it can be done. I'm planning to start a board for ultram victims as soon as I am actually out of the woods ... in the meantime email me at ***@**** .... I can help you ... Goldie
After acute withdrawal has abated, you're going to feel like a rancid mop -- total lack of physical, mental and emotional energy -- because of your dopamine, norepinephrin and endorphin (natural morphine) deficits. It's at this time that the L-Tyrosine with B6 will help you bring your own ass back to life.
Take a sufficient dose, and you'll feel the difference in less than 1 hour. And I mean really feel it -- not a placebo effect "feel-better" but an undeniable kick in the ass. If you're coming off a tall habit and feel absolutely brain dead, 3000 to 4000 mgs will lift the fog in 30 to 40 minutes. It's quite dramatic the first time you experience it. It's not like a caffeine wire, but more of a sudden clearing of the mind and a flood of confidence and optimism -- and physical energy.
It's this physical energy from L-Tyrosine that you need to put to work to get out of the house and into some kind of light aerobic activity, such as fast walking, bicycling, lap swim (or stair master and cross-country ski machine) -- whatever you can manage. You won't be able to do much at first and your addict self will hate it. But get 20 to 30 minutes of sustained aerobic activity (consistently elevated respiration and heart rate, upper and lower body involvement) and you'll re-start the process of making endorphins. And, as the good Dr. Bozian will tell you, you'll be establishing a healthy, revitalizing behavior in place of your drugging behavior.
As for producing too much dopamine, we should all have that problem! I know of no such occurance or condition associated with L-Tyrosine. Generally, if you take a dose too high for you, you'll get something akin to the "coffee jitters." Just lower the dose a bit on the following morning.
How long to take it? As long as it makes you feel good and helps you sustain your recovery. My good friend hippee takes it every morning. L-Tyrosine is not a drug. It's an amino acid found in our daily diet -- dairy, meat, poultry and other foods.
One thing I need to say since we're all drug fiends around these parts: unlike our pharmaceutical treats, taking more L-Tyrosine more often doesn't help. In fact, take a significant dose of L-Tyrosine more than once a day and you'll give yourself a massive, nauseating migraine-like headache. Take one big dose in the morning and it will last through the day. Some people take big doses immediately after acute withdrawal and scale the dose down as their recovery progresses. Read the Recipe text for instructions on starting L-Tyrosine.
Pick up pure L-Tyrosine 500 mgs capsules at the health food store (in the US), or get it on the web if in Canada. Remember to take 100mgs of vitamin B6 (in capsule) with the L-Tyrosine (on an empty stomach) to promote absorption. Try to wait an hour before eating breakfast. Hold off on the morning coffee until you feel the L-Tyrosine kick in. You probably won't want the coffee! Good luck.
Thomas
Golden, I agree with this **** about ultram is bullshit! I have 4 yrs clean of 5yr dope habbit, 2yr meth habbit, drinking, weed, coke (never really liked it though) and whatever else! I'm put on this **** and told non narcotic. Once it triggers me, I'm taking like 15 a day and can't get off the stuff. I feel I have a good chance this time. I told on myself and got help after many attempts to quit on my own. I think the web is a great idea and If I can help in anyway let me know. There are more out there and more to come I'm sure.
I want to be a normal person again! KimH
It has been 4 months now and I'm starting to feel normal. It was hell! I agree with the Thomas recipe and I wish I had known about it. The only thing that was different with me and I know everyone is different. I took ativan and ambien for a week because it was so bad and the Dr. was worried about my bp. I only had enough for a week and this was the 2nd week of withdrawls. It did relax me some, but it actually triggered my withdrawls and made it worse afterwards. Like I said everyone is different. I tappered down to about six ultram a day and I could not go any lower. It took me 7 months to do that and finally I just quit so I went cold turkey after 6 but that was better than 16. If you possibly can, taper lower than I did and it won't be so bad. I will be thinking of you and hang in there, because if you prolong, it will just get worse. Take it from an expert.
Take care,
Sandy
~rwc
rwc~
rwc-
Tonight I leave with my cousin, an elementary school art teacher, and a Van Gogh fanatic, for Amsterdam. When we planned this trip last year, I worried- even then- about pills, as OTC European meds did not entice me. Now, I am ecstatic! I am not worried about getting pills, sneaking pills through customs or anything else!
I have never liked greenage so the "Brownie Cafes" (or whatever they are called in Amsterdam) won't be a temptation.
We are staying in Amsterdam and environs through until September. My cousin will teach me a lot of art, esp. Van Gogh history, and I can't wait to learn experience it all! I know no art!
Unless I come across an internet cafe, I wont be visiting this special board again until I am settled. We are moving in the fall, so it may be awhile.
I am traveling without my laptop for the first time ever! I feel absolutely free from my primary addictions: pills and the net. I like browsing the net, but spend too much time online.
It will be so nice to experience the real world! real museums! real everything! and all straight! My cousin is older than dirt and straight as an arrow. It will be fun!
I am soo excited and thank you all for your support and words of wisdom these past months. I wish for you all many happy days. See you in a few months!
rodewc~
Peace,
Kurt