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Avatar universal

Options other than subs?

I've had a very low dose opiate dependency for years. I started taking them for severe anxiety (not prescribed to me). I quit no problem throughout two pregnancies. I'm on a low enough dose that physical detox isn't horrible and I know tricks and OTC meds to get through it. It is just living without opiates that is hard. I have pain from my last pregnancy (Possible thyroid problem - I'm looking into it but it's slow-going) and mentally I don't feel like myself. Or rather, I feel too much like myself. I feel like I flew too close to the sun. Opiates got me to where I want to be - I'm happier, less anxious, more open with others - and the thought of going back to my normal self sounds almost unlivable. I don't want to get high. I'm a parent. I just want to be pain-free physically, more focused mentally and more relaxed emotionally.

Other things I have been prescribed/tried to manage my symptoms: Zoloft, 5-HTP, B-12 and various other vitamins, muscle relaxers, Rx NSAIDs.

I found a sub doctor and was happy to be on a medication prescribed to me that seemed to help, but I hate the side effects. I have migraines and other headaches (on meds or not) and the Subutex (generic) makes it worse. I have headaches daily and if I do have a migraine or any other acute pain, I'm screwed because the sub blocks full opiates. I can't even go into the ER. I went to the ER with an ulcer this week and thankfully I was between sub prescriptions so I was only in agony for a day before painkillers were effective.

Methadone seems scarier than subs. I am also not sure about getting to a clinic every single day. The issue also still exists that if there is a real acute pain issue I'm screwed.

So what I'm asking: Has anyone had success with anything else? I am trying to get my general health in line as much as possible. I have small children so I don't have the luxury of staying in bed for 6 months and riding out PAWS depression. And like I said, I had a lot of these issues before. I just dealt with them better because I didn't know there was any other option. Now I do know and I can't handle feeling like crap when I know the life I'm missing.
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Avatar universal
Wanted to give a little update. I was having legit pain issues for a bit - that my husband could see - so he was trying to be nice and let me have a certain amount of his pain meds per week for a couple weeks. (I know this isn't great or legal but my doctor won't write them, I can't find a new doc, so my other options are go into the ER over and over or just suffer.) I felt it was causing friction though because he was very judgmental about the amount I was taking simply because it was more than HE takes (but still a normal amount a doctor would prescribe).

So *I* decided to stop taking his and get back on my own subs. Which I feel is a step forward for me and working on my relationship because before I would put up with his attitude if I got the pills but it isn't worth it anymore.

So I'm doing subs again tomorrow. This on and off thing is just raising my tolerance which ***** but I don't know what else to do when I have acute pain the subs aren't enough for. I only have a scrip for another few subs so I guess clock is ticking to get a new subs doc. It's all so ridiculous. I'm actually tapering down to less pain meds than I've taken in a long time but having someone else in control of my pain management stresses me out.

Honestly, I think about it so much, and if it was just about withdrawals or anxiety, I'd be clean already. It's so frustrating dealing with widespread pain that no one takes seriously. And then today I had a migraine and was basically shamed for taking 5 pills in one day. (If I'd gone into the ER I get a med cocktail by IV. Migraines are no joke. One pill is never gonna knock it out!)

I told my husband I'd go to meetings if it made him happy but I'm struggling as I feel like pain is the bigger issue. Anyways, just wanted to check in. Any advice is appreciated.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
We were all hot messes before the drugs. At that point drugs were NOT our problem they were out soultion. We reallly do get it. The problem wih opiates is that they change your brain, even in low doses, addiction or dependence is not a willpower thing. They change your brain and receptors and organs and body. So yes they feel like your friend right now. I know that feeling exactly. I said almost your extact justification. A few years ago. No one here can talk your out of doing what your are going to do. So come keep posting, we will help you where ever your are in this. Good luck.
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Avatar universal
Well, for now I'm going to dose subs really low (aiming for 2mg or less/day, maybe a lot less. supposedly it helps best with pain if you dose really small every few hours? gonna experiment.) and picked up some 5-htp and Rhodiola today.

Hopefully hormone issues get resolved, my weight gets back in order (I'm 70 lbs over after previously never being overweight in my life) and body feels better. There are a lot more options for dealing with anxiety without pain.

I just think it's strange that my doc is willing to prescribe me drug after drug to treat pain - including NSAIDs so strong I ended up in the ER with an ulcer! - rather than carefully monitoring me on a narcotic medication. I'd be more than happy to do a regular urine test, counseling, whatever. I feel like at least half of my daily energy is being zapped just wondering how I'll make it through the week, physically.
Helpful - 0
1926359 tn?1331588139
Usually we are ALL hot messes before we start the drugs.  I don't think anyone is missing the point- that's why we're reaching out.  I started on the drug train because my body fell apart and I was debilitated by illness and pain.  I was 27.  I took anything and everything that was prescribed to me by doctors because I was so desperate to feel well again.  I can't tell you how badly this backfired.  After several near death experiences and losing my home, my relationship, my career, and my friends I finally started to realize that the answers to my problems could not be found in a pill bottle.  I had to look at my health and my life HOLISTICALLY.  I had to do a lot of work in therapy, change my diet, the way I viewed myself and my life in order to find a healthy balance.  It took me years.  YEARS.  But the result has been so worth it.  Honestly, I lived so wonderful and clean and free for nearly 3 years before having a return of one of my debilitating diseases which the only cure for is yet another surgery.  So I'm back on the opiates and hating it- but if there were another option pre and post op then I would TAKE it.
I am not saying that drugs aren't helpful in certain situations.  They absolutely are.  But they often turn on you.  You need to get to the root of the problem before you can decide on a proper treatment plan.  And it has to involve more than pills.  
Oxy is a VERY dangerous drug.  It should only ever be used for acute pain for short periods of time.  I don't know ANYONE who has taken oxy long term and not suffered more from it than benefited from it.
I've been heavily invested in my own medical journey for nearly a decade.  I did two years of nursing school.  I've been a member of this forum for nearly 3 years.  I have worked my own recovery and become a support group leader for nearly 3 years.  Trust me, I know this with absolute certainty.
I can feel your overwhelming frustration, sadness, and desperation for something to help.  I can tell you that oxy is not your answer.
We can help you.
We want you to find things that make you feel happy and more whole and live the joyous life you deserve.
So we are not missing the point.  But the hot mess you will be if you continue down this road is NOTHING compared to where you are now.
Re read all the caring posts above.  These are voices of experience.  And since you posted for help we are all helping in the way that we know how.
You need a doctor who will listen to you and explore every avenue to help you find some peace and comfort.
But it is you and only you that must do the work.  It's hard.  But it's so worth it and so are you.
Bless-
Lu
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I feel like everyone is missing the point that I was a hot mess before I EVER tried drugs.
Helpful - 0
4522800 tn?1470325834
That is what Addiction is about..Whether it be Gambling, Sex, Shopping or Drug and Booze..This gives you a Dopamine Rush. It releases Neurochemicals such as Dopamines into the Brains Pleasure Centers (Midbrain)
There are FOODS and Vit/Min that help build the Dopamines up..Also when we use we knock down the Endorphins, Serotonin and so many more hormones that are responsible for us being happy and have energy. This is why it takes time to balance back..
We did have a list of foods on here that will help..It should be down on the right but I think it has been missing here lately. Do some research on what will help build the brain chem/hormones back up..I wish you the best!
Bless
Helpful - 0
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
I went through and re-read your posts. I assume you've been to many drs trying to figure out why you feel the way you do when your clean. You sound unhappy. But the opiates, that we were all taking at one point, are fake!!!! The false sense of hapiness they give us isnt real! When i got off of the opiates and subs all i was left with was me...and that wasnt too hot. I dont think anyone on here stated that there might not be something wrong mentally, but i dont know of any mental illness, treated with opiates. It is self-medicating and it doesnt work. Lots of people with bi-polar, schizophrenia, etc... self medicate. Totally normal, but you wont get any better treating it this way.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I self medicated for panic disorder, anxiety, depression and chronic pain for years. Then one day it got totally out of hand, I never saw it coming. I'm a mom,
Two kids. Etcetera etc. been there done that. Had your same reasons and justifications. VERY slippery slope. I finally have my life back. The energy and clean happy is coming back.
Helpful - 0
1926359 tn?1331588139
Hey listen, I understand and I HEAR you.  But you aren't going about this the right way.  I know that it su*Ks waiting for proper medical care.  I have a completely debilitating illness and am currently unable to do the things that matter most to me like run my business, make love to my partner, engage in social activities.  I was supposed to have surgery at end of June but for reasons beyond my control it is now October.
The fact remains- if you do not treat your problems in the way doctors are prescribing you are going to be treated as an addict.  And oxy makes most people addicts.  Even people that take it for legit reasons.  It made me an addict.  That is why I am reaching out to you.
You have to be a strong advocate for yourself and so I suggest pounding down doors until you get proper care.  You have to.  I did.  Do you know how many years doctors told me my pain was all in my head?  SIX.  It took six years of me being on every drug under the sun and losing my home and my livelihood before I found a doctor who listened and referred me to the doctor who saved my life.
You are self medicating and it's DANGEROUS.  I am not judging you and I totally feel for you.  But having been where you are I also recognize that you're playing with fire.
Please just consider this.  All advice is being given to you from a place of love and genuine concern.
There was a reason you posted on a substance abuse forum.  We're addicts that help other addicts find tools to live without drugs.  Yes sometimes drugs are the answer in specific medical conditions and situations.  But we can't decide that all on our own.  You need help or you wouldn't have posted here.  So please just try to stay open and hear what we are saying to you.
Okay?
I must turn in now.  I've been awake for 6 days in horrific pain that my meds barely touch.
I will check in with you tomorrow and in the meantime- please search your soul and consider all that has been said.
Peace
Lu
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Do you not acknowledge that some people have legitimate mental illnesses, that therapy alone can't fix. Pain killers don't 'sometimes' work. They work reliably at low doses. Why take 150mg of Zoloft when 16mg of Dilaudid works BETTER? And treats my physical pain as well.

Yes I am trying to fix the medical issues but the soonest I could get in with an endocrinologist is NOVEMBER. WTF do I do until then? It feels like the only way to be taken seriously is to develop something bad enough to require an ER visit. I've considered claiming to be suicidal (I'm not - I have two beautiful little boys I would never, EVER leave) just to get admitted somewhere and have someone listen to my medical concerns.
Helpful - 0
1926359 tn?1331588139
I have to say honey I fear for you.  You are looking to solve a problem by taking a pill and that rarely works.  Perhaps it is depression but perhaps not.  Have you tried therapy?  You mentioned your thyroid and having a hard time after pregnancy so it most definitely could be hormonal- given your moniker I would have to say this even more emphatically.  Hormones are the most powerful substances our body produces.  I know that for a great deal of my life I've been ruled by my hormones.  I have some very serious chronic illnesses which are almost entirely governed by my hormone levels.  The good news is that there are many natural ways to manage this with diet, supplements, and exercise.
CBT as Weaver suggested is incredibly helpful and was a life saver to me.  As was EMDR for PTSD which I suffered from medical trauma and an abusive marriage.
I never,ever responded well to anti-depressants.  They always made me more depressed.  I was on opiates for many, many years for chronic debilitating pain.  When I finally got properly diagnosed (stage 4 severe endometriosis)  and had surgery. my pain was resolved and I had to battle real hard to come off those opiates BUT I DID IT.  I did all the therapy I suggested above plus SMART recovery which is group therapy for addiction.  I also invested heavily in my nutritional health and a vigorous exercise regime.
Never been so happy in my life.  For nearly 3 years I lived a life I never dreamed possible.  No my endo is back and I'm back on the opiates awaiting another surgery this fall.  I can't wait to be pill free again.  The pain is making me depressed and the opiates help with the pain but I KNOW they add to the depression.

Back to you-
The oxy is giving you a false sense of happiness and security.  It is only a matter of time before it turns on you.  And it will.  It always does.
Please nip this in the bud before that happens.
Real true happiness and contentment is a choice- but one we often have to work hard to find.  But it is so worth it and SO ARE YOU.
So please.  Think about it.
Happiness can not be found in a bottle.  The bottle always ends up empty and so will you.
Wishing you peace.
Keep posting-
Lu
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I feel as though I have found a *medication* that makes me feel better, physically as well as mentally. If that medication was Prozac, most people would be cheering for me. Just because I get more relief using a pain medication off-label, I'm an addict instead of a patient.

Zoloft was scary to get off of. Even with tapering, the acute withdrawal symptoms lasted longer than coming off opiates. While I was on it, I was numb and had trouble focusing, along with physical symptoms. Even after a few weeks I would still get little brain zaps. Tell me how that is a better option than opiates which give me no side effects? I was physically addicted to both.
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Avatar universal
Responding only to you because you aren't being condescending and I appreciate that. :) I absolutely feel the same way, that I am missing dopamine. Interesting how that creates a stigma whereas any non-mental disease receives treatment even when lifestyle factors could eradicate it completely. Only 'addicts' are expected to jump through hoops to feel not good but maybe decent.

I do have that med on my list - That and Cymbalta. I saw both of those suggested on an opiate-lovers forum several times. I am waiting to have thyroid tests done to see if that helps with some symptoms and not sure if I want to try another med before or after that.

I'm on my last day of real opiates tonight (not enough to get high, just enough to not feel like crap physically!) and I guess going to start subs up again tomorrow, as I still have an Rx for several more. I will dose them as low as possible and hope the headaches don't start up.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I suggest Cognative Behavioral Therapy and addiction counseling. Addicts call what you have , " Stinkin' Thinkin.' You say it's not that you can't get and stay off drugs, but you don't want to, not if it means being the real you. Instead of trying to change your mood and nothing else, maybe changing the way you think will help you see a better way. CBT helps me a lot on what you are talking about. You may not have a strong physical dependance, but you are sharing very strong addict thinking. Change your thinking and your mood will change. If you chemically change your mood, your mood will get worse and worse. Eventually the consequences will get bad enough that it won't be worth it anymore. It doesn't sound like you are actually ready to be sober , you still glorify the benefits, give it time and you will die, go to jail or insane, or you may quit and find new ways of thinking before that. Are you willing to try counseling, not psychiatrists and doctors who offer drugs, but a therapist who offers coping skills?
Helpful - 0
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
I have to say, after reading your post, you are totally just looking for something to not feel....which is what most addicts do. Your switching from one drug to another to feel differently and your going to realize once the drug wears off your stilk left with you. The subs are a ***** to come off of as well as methadone, so i wouldnt recommend either! Maybe finding an antidepressant that works for you, however, i would think if the antidepressant is making u tired, then maybe its not depression your battling?
Your story reads...."am looking for something to not feel like me".... does that seem right to you? Maybe its time to look around you and see whats keeping you from wanting to be YOU???
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks for responding so fast. :)

I got put on Zoloft but it just made me physically feel like crap and have no energy. I don't really have the desire to be on a longterm anxiety med again, spending months trying different ones and tapering off - That detox ***** too - until I find the one that ***** the least. Even when I was coming in to talk to someone, the most they would give me would be 5 Ativan for a month. And that makes me calm but too tired to want to do anything.

It seems like everyone gets addicted and then finally recovers and goes back to their old self. Even my own mother did that. The problem is, my old self isn't compatible with my life. I don't have it in me to do the family life without getting depressed or anxious. Not to mention real pain issues which everyone from my doctor to my husband think are in my head.
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Avatar universal
Thanks for the quick response. I don't really know that I can live without something though.

I started taking pills when my husband was diagnosed with a chronic illness. I probably should have just left because I knew I couldn't deal with it and he deserved better. But the pills helped me stand by him. Now we have two kids so there is no way out. Even tapering down to a lower dose than usual, I have panic attacks all the time. It isn't healthy for my small kids, when I get upset and literally CAN NOT calm myself down.

I don't know if it's genetic or something else. My family seems to have anxiety but not the way I do. I had a great childhood. Ever since I was a kid I've been wishing my brain could just be normal. Pills gave me that for a few years. I honestly don't want to just cope when I was thriving for awhile.

I have no problem staying on low doses - very low, less than 50mg/day of oxycodone AT MOST - but I can't think about anything else when I have to obsess over how to get them and stay well. (Again, detox is not the problem. I've gotten through that and just feel empty. I used to get rid of that feeling with new romances and experiences. I am married with little kids now. There are no thrills and contentment is not something I ever really had without meds.)
Helpful - 0
9843818 tn?1406976821
I know what it feels like. I didn't like myself for a long time.  I never thought I would like being sober bit now I do.  It took a long time but it gets better every day.

If you are on a low dose of opiates try to stay away from the subtitles and METHADONE.  I would hate to see you trade one thing for another

Go see your doctor for the anxiety.  Be totally upfront and honest.  You will find that most doctors will help and be your greatest advocate.  Their are plenty of prescriptions to help with anxiety.

Shortly after my second child was born, I needed help for awhile.  My anxiety was sky high and I was 33.  The doctor prescribed something to help me.  And it did.  It helped me be a better mother.

Your children need you so be the best mom you can be.  I wish you the best of luck and may God bless you.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
With such a low dose paws prolly won't be an issue. ONCE you get all the opiates outta your system and start to get your body and mind clean, the other stuff follows. The energy, clear thinking, living your life will come. We it used to having a pill to bring these things to us. We have to learn those things are not in a pill bottle. Life is hard, life is good, life is scary. But we have to just live it and  without drugs if we are to truly enjoy it. It's a little bit of a recovery to re learn to live life on life's terms. But truly it's only the honeymoon phase
When we think the drugs make us better. They ruin us in the long run. Switching over to subs or meth from low dose opiates is like jumping from the frying pan and into the fire. Try to get off them. Do some aftercare, work
On yourself and the rest will come.
Helpful - 0
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