Overdoses

[Valerie]

My cousin just died of a herion overdose.  No one would tell me or no one knew what happened to the person while their having an overdose.  My question is What happens in a herion overdose?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I am sorry to hear about your cousin's death from heroine. I've OD'd twice and can tell you that physically it is painless. The mental part is OH SH*T! You simply stop breathing and have the biggest rush of your life. Not fun by any stretch of the imagination.  Before the blackout, there is the terror that You screwed up. I never had a heart attack but the feeling must be similar.  Panic! Most of us really don't want to die when it comes right down to it.  We want to live and that is why we are all still here! Anybody else out there have a OD story to share?

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Hi guys, sorry to interrupt the thread, as I do not have an OD story, (Thank God), however I am going to ask a question that I believe we can ALL benefit from...I read in an earlier post that Tom knows a method by which the Tylenol can be extracetd from the Vicodin/Percocet, etc...What is this method??  Please do share,(not only Tom but ANYONE who has an "in" to this secret practive) our livers are screaming for your help!!  :)

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Hi guys, sorry to interrupt the thread, as I do not have an OD story, (Thank God), however I am going to ask a question that I believe we can ALL benefit from...I read in an earlier post that Tom knows a method by which the Tylenol can be extracetd from the Vicodin/Percocet, etc...What is this method??  Please do share,(not only Tom but ANYONE who has an "in" to this secret practive) our livers are screaming for your help!!  :)

[tom to Vicodin gurrl]

here ya go, VicoBabe ...

Tylenol is not water soluble (doesn't disolve in water).
Hydrocodone (and oxy and codeine) are water soluble.

The technique is not totally efficient and won't remove all tylenol or yield all the narcotic. (probably 75-85% of each)

Take an 8-10oz glass of luke warm water, preferably bottled good stuff.

Thoroughly disolve the pills in the water and stir thoroughly for a few minutes until you have a pretty consistent milky solution.

For best results: Fill a big plastic baggy with ice chips. make it big enough and sturdy enough that you can wrap the ice bag like a jacket around the glass. Duct tape helps to secure the jacket. (or fill a bucket with ice so you can submerge the glass in the ice) The idea is to cool the water rapidly. Stir very, very gently with a rod or equivalent stirrer (not a spoon)for about 10 to 15 minutes as the water cools, but not so vigorously that you keep the tylenol from falling to the bottom of the glass. (Use a clear glass to help you see what's happening.)
Stop stirring and gently place the glass in the fridge. Let it sit for another 15 minutes or so.

When you see pretty much clear water with all the sediment fallen to the bottom, carefully draw off (or drink) the water from the glass being careful to not touch or get too close to the tylenol sediment.

That's it. Now, there's an easier way that's not as efficent: Disolve in water, stir thoroughly, place glass in fridge till the water looks clear and the sediment is all at the bottom, about 20 minutes or so. Draw off or drink as above.

As you can see, it's not very portable, but works at home. Good luck. My best to your liver.

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

One additional question (again, I realize that this forum is not supposed to PROMOTE drug abuse, however, if there is a method by which WE collective abusers can use more safely, well so be it, right?...)If I were to dissolve 10 5/500 strength Vicodin in 10oz H20, that would yield something like 5ml hydrocodone/oz, right?  Will that then keep if I were to say, siphon it into another container and consume 15-20mg (or 3-4 oz of fluid) per dose?  (Hmmm...interesting concept..should have been a pharmacist or chemist instead of an RN.)  :)

Is it relatively stable in its liquid form?  

Thanks again for the info...I WISH I knew you Tom, I think you and I (well, ALL of us here at this forum) would have a lot to talk about.  You seem to me to be a bright, interesting, insightful person...too bad we'd both be screwed if we ever knew who one another were...Damn medical field! :)

To y'all out there, keep yer chins up, we'll get past this someday, right?...Gosh I LOVE this website!!!

[to doc dan from joe]

Another way to avoid the tylenol is to have your doctor switch you to roxicodone; its the same as percocet but no tylenol to worry about, just pure oxycodone with some binders to hold the pill together.

[tom to joe]

we'd all love that. problem is, roxicodone is schedule II. Most MDs won't write those (triplicate goes to the DEA). nice thought, though!

[tom to Vicodin gurrl]

Actually, I have no idea how stable or consistent the solution is. I've always consumed the whole thing. I'm not a chemist, so I can't give you much info re your question. Most drugs I see kept in solution seem to be mixed with more than water, often alcohol. I imagine someone around the hospital might know (like a friendly pharmacist, if there is such a thing). If you find out, please let me know. (I used to mix it right at my desk at work, use the company fridge, and down it right in front of my boss -- yeee  ha!)
I know you're saying you're an RN, but I wasn't sure if you were assuming I was in the medical field. I am merely an enthusiastic consumer of "medical services." I am a writer. I work for the software industry. I write some of those manuals you hate, plus some advertising and journalistic pieces for some of the newsstand PC mags. Not glamorous, but it pays the bills fairly well.

I've got to go right now (to the dentist -- but I'm leaving with some Vics). I can't give out my usual e-mail without broadcasting my real name, but you can write here:
***@****

[Mike P. to Ken]

I think when tom was using this method, it was different than say the average user. Correct me if I'm wrong tom, but you were using in excess of 75 a day w/this method...so I'm guessing you were dropping 10-15 at a wack in the water...this might have yielded something...I've done up to 4-5 and have also used it with the Canadian 222's. It does work to an extent, but I would say the hydrocodone I felt out of the 5 5/500's I dissolved was equal to about 2.5 vicodin - max. A huge waste, especially if you only get a sacred 30-45 a month. Take 'em straight. If you have an obscene quantity like tom did - give it a try. It is a mellower feeling than you get when you take 'em straight. You kind of sit there and say..."Mmmmmm...I think they're working..." But you're not sure. When I did it with the codeine, I'd use 20 at a time in order to get enough codeine to actually be beneficial...20 x 8mg is only 160mg, minus what you lose so let's say 120-130mg's at best...like dropping 4 #3's or 2 #4's. Highly wasteful. Plus the caffeine in those suckers come along for the ride and make for a stranger than normal codeine feeling...you can't tell which that you feel. Vicodinguurrllll, I don't think you'll get what you're looking for unless you are only at a stage where 3 or so vicodin in one shot straight give you pain relief and/or euphoria. If you're up to 8-10+ a day, you'll be wondering why you just wasted a handful of them! One way that does work is - mix it up - i.e. take 3 straight and dilute 4 of them etc. Seems to actually work sometimes. I have always been extremely short of pain meds and hesitate to use any of them for this purpose...also - tom - do you ever find that Darvon gives you visual disturbances? If I take 3-4 DarvocetN-100 or 4+ Darvon in a shot, I start seeing cross eyed and it only takes 1-2 to really jag a dose. Also, do you find Darvon to be more mentally clouding - along the lines of morphine - than say Hydrocodone? I feel like my brain is high on pot when I take Darvon...I can think, but it's a little/alot less than sharp. Pot does the same thing to me...that's why I never got into pot. Darvon seems alot more like a brain narcotic whereas Hydrocodone/Oxycodone seems like a body narcotic. I can have 40 Darvon and still crave the pain relief of Vicodin. Darvon are, in my opinion, one of the dirtiest feeling and acting drugs out there...of course it doesn't mess with the sex drive like the others do, and that's cool, but for pain relief it comes at the high price of mental clouding for me - do you ever find that? Finally - I like how the anonymous poster says just "have your doctor switch you to roxicodone" (!!!!!!!!) Oh yeah, that'll work! "Hey doc, I'm worried about the tylenol in vicodin ruining my liver...can you switch me to a triplicate straight narcotic please? Gee, thanks. That was easy"........YEAH RIGHT! Good luck. Any doctor will tell you that if you use vicodin in it's normal therapeutic ranges you have NOTHING to worry about. Anyway, I'm done rambling...sorry for the long post...Mike P. (P.S. - tom, am I right when I do the math for you 12 Darvon a day x 30 = 360 Darvon a month? Sorry to be so nosy, but in between my Vicodin scripts I get a handful of Darvon from my sister and was just curious about this...)

[to doc dan from joe]

Tom,

I had no idea that a triplicate goes to the DEA, does that mean they are keeping tabs on me and may come knocking at my door?

[to doc dan from joe]

Tom,

I had no idea that a triplicate of the script goes to the DEA, does that mean they are keeping tabs on me and may come knocking at my door?

[Mike P. to Ken]

If you're legit Joe, I wouldn't worry...The doctor has more to lose than you do - all you're doing is filling and taking a prescribed substance right? I may have missed something - i.e. forgery etc. but if I didn't and you're on the up and up with the prescriptions, you have nothing to worry about. On the other hand if the DEA doesn't think that your situation warrants the amount of triplicate scripts your doctor is writing, he may be questioned about it. I.E. - the doc is writing 100 percodan every 2 weeks for a sore elbow or skinned knee.

[tom to joe]

it means that everything on the script, drug, patient name, doctor, etc. is in a computer file which can be searched and sorted any way they want. As long as you aren't getting them from multiple doctors you don't have anything to worry about. It's the doctors they are "tracking." They can, for example, get a report of how many roxicodones your doc has dispensed in the last year, that kind of thing. But, yes, it's all on record.

It is anyway for regular scripts. Most pharmacies will comply with a cop's request for a look at their computerized records, which would include all scripts. But, unless you're doing something that brings you to the attention of the cops or feds, you don't have anything to worry about.

[to doc dan from joe]

Thanks,

Yes, I'm taking them legitimately but I don't want any hassels from the DEA, just want to keep my liver healthy

[tom to Mike P.]

Mike, I'm on the way to the dentist, but i'll answer your questions in a couple of hours. You're absolutely right about the inefficiency of the water method. Yes, i was taking 12-15 Vics at a time back then (ten years ago, thankfully) and I simply had to remove the tylenol. I also agree, Vicgurrl will waste them if she is on a low dose, but she asked, so I told. I hope she reads your post also. (I would add, though, that chilling with ice and the whole bit improves the efficiency over just dropping them in a glass.) I would like to talk to someone who uses darvon, though, so I'll get back on line in about 2.5 hours and give you my experience -- it's a bit different than most, don't know why. See ya then.

[tom to Mike P.]

I was going to add re the tylenol extraction, if you run the "tylenol sediment" through the process several times, i.e., suck the water out, refill the glass, stir up, let settle, suck the water out, refill, etc. etc. you'll get a lot closer to a decent yield. When I was doing it, I was buying 100 a day out the back door of a clinic and could burn a few.

re; the darvon, yes, if I take too many or take doses too close together I will get spatial distortion that is really very unpleasant. I wound up driving at night on the freeway once that way and will never risk that again. It reminded me of the way I felt driving on pot.

I'm the exception to the rule, but I get a good dose of euphoria from Darvon 65 (the good ole plain pink ones). Same goes for the darvon-N (darvocet-n without the tylenol). Vics are certainly better (like the ones I'm on right now -- thank you, Mr dentist), but my doc is very casual about rx-ing for darvon but starts to take notice if I ask for Vicodin too often. (the math is more like 16x30). I don’t sense any mental clouding really with any narc except morphine and codeine. I write for a living and do fine on darvon, vicodin or oxycontin (something new I just added). Take it easy.

[Jon in Philly]

You finally got some of the mighty oxy, huh?  How did you do that?  I keep mentioning it to my Dr. but he sort of chuckles and says "that's pretty strong stuff" and then writes a scrip for lorcet.

Congrats

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

This might sound frivolous but why don't we just grow our own poppies and gather the opium? Probably not legal.
I read some time ago that the University of Wisconsin got something like 1.4 pounds of raw opium by germinating and growing the seeds scraped off frozen poppy seed rolls! I've got some seeds germinating right now and am going to see what happens, he,he!

[Mike P. to Ken]

Yeah tom - how'd you swing the oxy's with a nervous doc? Black market huh? Those are something that I'll never get from my doc...can't afford black market - at all, but would love to try. I got ahold of some Tussionex after reading about it on this board.(This board is a catalyst...check out barbara now!) Drank 1.5 ounces, laid down and just closed my eyes. Had conversations while laying there, eyes closed, just as happy as can be. I swung it due to the fact that I needed it. I was out of town and forgot my meds when I was deathly sick w/tonsilitis. Went to a clinic to get more antibiotics and told the doc I left my cough medicine at home too "What was it?" "Oh, it was Tussionex. Works great..." "Oh, okay, here." Of course it was Phenergan w/Codeine which is the sorriest drug on the market. Phenergan is an evil drug too. Dirty. My throat would bleed even if I coughed a tad so, I thought it was warranted...of course, 1.5 ounces is about a gajillion times the dose - 1 teaspoon ever 12 hours. But I would be home before...dah dah dah...anyway, I've taken 5-6 percoset at a bang and it's groovy. Is Oxycontin like that? I figure it's gotta be on par with the tussionex in it's action, bigger bang than just Hydrocodone in tabs. If you ever get a "quantity" of those, let me know...One 40 for a kick would be bitchin'. I'm such a drug leach. My doctor has made me into an obsessive-compulsive ***** because she won't give me adequate pain medication. It puts me on the constant prowl instead of feeling comfortable that I'll be okay for a month or so. It causes a terrible backlash that I don't think doctors recognize. Pacify w/o overmedicating and you won't have a patient in pain who will gobble anything he gets his hands on. My doctor accidentally wrote me for too much once and for the first time in a long time I had a stress free existence. Holding anything back just increases the yearning to get it. Hasn't anyone learned that yet? Advertising agencies know it, but doctors don't. Control supply and you get high demand. It's economics and our little human minds are just as prone to following this basic rule as any. Yeah, Darvon is the pot of painkillers. They do great in a pinch but there's a reason why their Class IV. They suck for pain relief for many and the euphoria is minimal and at high doses, miserable. I get those when I'm in Mexico. (An aside, watch out for Neo-Percodan in Mexico - it's not Oxycodone - it's propoxyphene and acetaminophen...not cool if you think you're taking the other.) Of course, I'll take the Darvon off  my sisters hands! They work great for her too. I actually put the glass in the freezer when I did the tylenol thing...making sure it didn't freeze of course...I started doing that before, after seeing the practice spelled out at the erowid.org. It actually has you filter the water with a filter - i.e. lab or coffee. The solids don't pass, the hydrocodone/codeine does. Still, pretty pathetic yields...maybe I'm doing something wrong but I don't think so...you tend to be careful with these little buggers. To J.B. - raw opium may be cool to smoke, I've never done it (known people who have) but It's not the same as a refined or semi-synthetic pill. It's a different kick to be sure. I've tossed hundreds of seeds in my backyard and just let 'em be...if they grow, cool, if not...good bagel. Anyway, tom did you awaken the monkey with that MS Contin? I hope not bro...I think it's possible to be pain free, get some kicks and still be responsible...At least that's what I keep telling myself. I'll be on until about 3:00...talk to you guys later.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I was given Tussionex back in June for bronchial pneumonia and a cough that pulled all my rib muscles. Talk about the pain! I was passing out from it. That stuff was a miracle for sure. I believe it has hydrocodone in some kind of time release suspension.
Yeah, I smoked alot of opium when I was living in Europe and it is a different kind of trip for sure. It'll have you crawling the floor like a baby. Almost a halucinogen to be more specific.
It's probably why I still have chronic bronchitis as well.
Yes, it is possible to be pain free and responsible as well. For me it is being given my doses by my wife. That's how responsible I am. I have a very short memory when it comes to pain meds.

[Mike P. to Ken]

Whatever works! That's cool. My doctor regulates my intake - by giving me a weeks worth of pills for a month! Of course, family members and that all important "Who's getting out of the hospital??? Do they need a ride?" conversation never hurts either. I just don't have the money for buying stuff off the street - plus I could never let my wife and daughter down finacially by somehow justifying $120 for 4-5 Oxycontins. Then you chase that dragon's tail too. "Nope, no food for you, daddy needs a new pair of Oxy's!" Couldn't live with myself. My doctor says everything I want is right here in my town on the streets - wonderful information to give isn't it?  In 7 years of this back/side problem, I have yet to haunt the streets...the thought of course occurs...but quickly subsides...Hey, you need a ride home from the hospital? I'm drivin'!:)

[tom to Mike P.]

oooh you just mentioned my favorite drug of all time -- TUSSIONEX! The best high I've ever had, oxycontin included. Time-release hydrocodone in some sort of resin complex that, unlike oxy and mscontin, actually breaks down continuously over 8 to 12 hrs. Just the thought of the taste drives me crazy. I'd still trade anything I've got for some of that divine yellow nectar of the gods. Hard to get, though. There's even a law in California restricting Tussionex to 6 oz/rx. At least that was the reg at a Sav-on I was at. Yeah, absolute heaven in a bottle.

I have the coolest doc on the planet right now and suggested to him that taking one oxy every twelve hours would be safer than taking 2 darvons every 4 hrs. He didn't hesitate, which really surprised me. Of course, i won't get any excess each month. I'm sure he'll watch the refill dates pretty closely. Natuarally, I love them (chewed up, of course. But I also snorted them which really felt great). Problem with these things is that you burn through them so fast.

As for the MS-Contins, I only had 12 or them, so I burned through them and that's that. As long as I have my darvons to fall back on I don't have a craving for any particular narc. Actually, the MS donen't compare to oxy or hydro for euphoria, although they sure kill pain well. But the Tussionex ... i have fantasies about walking out of pharmacies with gallons of that wonderful stuff. The best narc bar none as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to try my docotor with one of those "dry coughs" and see what happens.

Tell me, what happens when you go to mexico to buy narcs? Do you have to go to a doctor? Or can you just buy it? Also, do the drugs have spanish names? I'd be tempted to go down but I'm a little hesitant to go down there without someone who knows the ropes.
My alias e-mail is ***@****, if you want to converse "off line"

Also, are you saying the opium poppy is found in poppy seed rolls or bagels? Seriously? Aren't there different kinds of poppies? I'd love to try to grow some just for fun.

[Kerri to Shelly, Brian and Brighty]

I thought this was a site where people came to get support for QUITTING drugs, not support for how to get them, how to get the most out of them, and what drug gets you the highest. This thread is mostly about promoting drug use, not promoting getting clean. All this talk about how good drug use is could have a terrible effect on someone who is struggling to stay clean.  If you want to talk about getting high, maybe you should go to another site.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

As far as buying drugs in Mexico, I have a little information. My mother lives about an hour from the border in Arizona. She goes down there once a month for meds and they are a fraction of the cost. It is brand name stuff like Eli Lilly et al. The names are in Spanish but there's also a translation chart at the pharmacia.
For anything narcotic, she sees a doctor on the premises that charges around $15.00 for a script. She gets her Fiorinol and percodan this way. In the past, I have sent her a shopping list and have gotten everything I needed. People get together in her neighborhood and go down in a van. Mostly older people on fixed incomes. They come back with literally shopping bags of meds!
She told me that lately the pharmacias are getting stricter near the border and they have to drive about 40 miles south to another town now. Supposedly, this is all highly illegal but in 15 years they've never been hassled. Maybe it would be too embarrassing for the local police to lock up a bunch of senior citizens on narcotics trafficing? Hope this helped you!

[Jon in Philly]

Sorry, you are right.  It is easy to get side-tracked when you are talking to other people who share your same interests.  Sometimes I forget the purpose of this forum.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

About the poppies, look in the Erowid website for info on growing and use.

[Mike P. to Ken]

The point of my post was this - I have actual pain - my doctor is a tight ass with pain meds, thus neccessitating my quest to find ANY WAY POSSIBLE - Relief. Anyone who takes opiates on ANY regular basis cannot even accidentally escape feeling some kind of euphoria. Just being pain free is a euphoria in itself. Doctors tendency to be extremely tight with the scripts has a rubber band effect. It, in my opinion, causes higher levels of obsessive-compulsive behavior in chronic pain patients than if the issue was avoided by adequately medicating. I shouldn't have to lie to any doctor, I shouldn't have to ask my grandmother in law for 2 Vicodin after I work in her yard for her. It's pathetic. It makes me worse off than before. (Call this anything you want including rationalizing my drug use - but it's a reality to me and many others.) I wouldn't even be at this forum had I not been on the roller coaster of 2 weeks pain free, 2 weeks withdrawing and being in pain each month. It drives me crazy. So I go to Mexico, I lie to doctors, and I ask relatives. The doctors think I'm lying anyway...I'm a guy with long hair, tattoos and a Harley...I MUST be a Hell's Angel looking for dope w/no legit reason - RIGHT? The bias and prejudice by doctors to their patients is on par with that of the KKK. I cannot live a life of any quality w/o pain meds - so I do what I have to. If it's asking a bunch of people on an internet forum what's the best way to relieve my pain and WHERE can I lay my hands on it - so be it. The medical industry is to blame for my need of narcotics to begin with so I am NOT a person to talk to when it comes to how they can help with my "recovery". If they hadn't botched 2 surgeries, I'd still have pain meds sitting in my cupboard becoming expired like I did prior to my fiasco. The forum is about dealing with our problems that pertain to drugs. See this thread as a bunch of druggies if you choose, but don't be so naive to think that this kind of conversation doesn't go on in NA's and AA's and doctors offices across the world. We're doing the best we can today - and everyday - and if that means using to increase our quality of life - fine. I take pain meds for pain, the "euphoria talk" is a natural bi-product of conversations involving opiates. If I don't eat before I take 3 Vicodin, I catch a little buzz...Am I now a heroin addict/nut case for admitting that? No. I'm being honest. TOM - I will contact you offline. Unfortunately, the people who take pain meds SOLELY for kicks give everyone else a bad name. They make it difficult for people with pain to get the relief they need. If you don't have pain, you shouldn't take any pain meds - that much is true. I don't think this forum has had a viable topic or support system for anyone having pain or drug abuse problems for quite some time. Go figure. - Mike

[tom to frustrated]

Frustrated: You have a perfect right to feel frustrated by some of the stuff I say. I am a 27 –year unrepentant opiate addict and, as far as I know, will be til the day I die. It’s part of who I am. So shoot me. For the last 10 years, I have also been a chronic pain patient with three bad disks and one surgery, so far, to my credit. I admit that I apply myself, not to learning how to completely abstain from narcotic use, but rather to how I can continue to be who I am and still have a normal, fulfilling life. I suppose it’s some kind of justice that I took narcotics for 17 years without needing them, and now, for the last ten years, most certainly do need them to live any kind of life at all. I am not being insincere when I give people tips on managing withdrawal or urge them to go to AA or NA. I have always told people asking about AA that I am not the poster boy or role model for this group. AA has helped me understand why I use. AA has not enabled me to quit altogether, but thanks to them I have been able to fashion a sort of “arrangement’ which has enabled me to be a good father, husband, employee and law-abiding taxpayer. What can I tell you? It’s the best I can do. If the drug fiend side of me slips out in these posts, it’s because I don’t hold anything back when I write here. I can only be who I am. But when someone posts here who is suffering or afraid or confused, how can I turn my back on them? I do what I can do.

[patrick]

Is snorting oxy's better than chewing ???
I am chewing 40-60 millagams 2x daily.
I want to start weening myself off and thought if I snorted them, I could use less and start weening that way.

Thanks Ya'all
Patrick

[Frankinscense]

People:
I am with frustrated on this one. I do not know what happened to Brian but since he left this site it has turned into a den for the drug addicted. With talk like this I wouldn,t doubt that he has relapsed. You people have got to realise you are one a road to nowhere. Again I have been where you are and if you do not stop you will end up in jail or six feet under. Tom it seems like all of you are in a state of denial. You are all addicted to opiates and all need to get on a opiate agonist treatment before it is too late. I wanted to share some useful information on getting off these drugs. But until I see a change I cannot see any use in it.
Dan.....

[Mike P. to Ken]

So a diabetic is an insulin addict? A heart patient is a coumadin addict? Give me a break - Do most of us fit a "doctors" definition of an "addict" SURE...I openly admit that I fit into a doctors "addict" description. Does it change anything as far as my needs go...not really. It's all semantics isn't it? I'm a drug addict - there - does that make you feel better? I've known that for years. Big deal. I have absolutely no delusions about the depths of my problems and solutions. You are JUDGING US SOLELY ON WHAT YOU READ HERE IN A DRUG ADDICTION FORUM. Kind of a skewed frame of reference wouldn't you say? I would. Also, if you think you're ever going to convince a drug addict on the basis of your words alone to quit - you're higher than a kite right now. Nothing short of a lightning bolt of logic in the addicts OWN MIND will do it. Scream in a junkies ear all day long - changes not a thing. No one changes until THEY want to. Concentrate on helping the ones who are at the stage of asking for help. You will save yourself some heartache and alot of time. I dig what you're saying and what you're trying to do...You yourself say you've been there - did you not hear the same things you are currently saying to us here, back then? Sure you did. Did you stop cold turkey and say "Whooo that was close..." No. You quit when YOU wanted to. No sooner, no later.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Dan. you are only wasting your time trying to convince people whom have been taking drugs for quite some time to stop. One of the worst drugs on the market today is alcohol! Do you drink?

I stopped drinking five months ago because I became so addicted to it after five years of self medicating because I could not get the pain relief I needed. I went through seizures and DT's and the whole nine yards on and off since last October until I finally went in-patient. Now I have not had any booze for almost five months.

Now the pain is back full force. Pain causes depression and if it goes on too long turns a person into a non-functioning person and can even lead to suicide.

Now I am finally off the BOOZE and am taking the correct pain relievers and feeling so much better. If I speak of enjoying the high feeling or just plain feeling better, there should be nothing wrong with that. I like to feel good, I don't like to feel bad.

I am not going to be one of those holy rolling martyrs that endure severe suffering for people like you that come preaching about addiction. I like what I am on now and know I am addicted to the Klonopin. It is much less toxic than alcohol in fact the doctor just gave me a treadmill stress test two weeks ago and was shocked when I topped the 200 mark.

He had to tell me when to stop treading and I am 40 lbs. over weight! My heart no longer is showing a mirtal valve prolapse and the reguritation is greatly reduced. The palpitations (pvcs) which were extremely frequent before are now completely gone!

So tell me what caused that miraculous change? I had all of those symptoms long before drinking so don't say stopping the booze is the answer. It's the miraculous work of the Klonopin! It reduces the anxiety disorder I have, and has finally given me some peace of mind. It also has taken away the painful partial status clonic part of the seizures I was having. I love the stuff and hope to take it the rest of my life! So please don't preach to me.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What the hell is klonopin anyway? How did you get involved with it? I am an alcoholic and have never heard of it. You tout it as some miracle drug for those of the alcoholic persuasion. In reading your posts, it seems as though you are trading one addiction for another. If I could manage it, I would trade alcohol for morphine any day. Plus the cost of morphine is a lot cheaper than Crown Royal and I could probably hold down a job as well. Just wondering. Be well and take it easy!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

WHEW! You sound a little angry there. I don't know if you ever went through alcohol detox but they usually give you a benzodiazapine such as Librium, Valium, or Ativan. I asked my Doc for Klonopin since it has a much longer half life and lasts alot longer in your system. I was having severe withdrawal, seizures and DT's and it was pure hell.

The Klonopin stopped the seizures and it makes you feel good too. It's given as an anti-convulsant as well as for anxiety disorders. My Psych Doc diagnosed me with a severe anxiety disorder and they also found the seizures were going to be a permanent thing not just withdrawal anymore.

So she left me on the Klonopin and it is a miracle drug for me. Yes, it is replacing the booze but I have physical and mental problems and need it, so I use it. I can hold down a job and have since I was 18 years old. I am now 44. I own my own home, land in Florida I don't even need, two vehicles, four dogs and four cats. I do everything myself, including yard work, maintenance etc. I have been a loner so I do most things alone, but now at A.A. I am making some new friends.

With your angry tone, you may also have an anxiety disorder, you may want to ask you Doc about it. I take 8 mg which is a very high dose bacause of the seizures. I doubt they would give you more than 2 mg, but you can ask and see how you like it, provided you even want it. I am on 2 mg of it right now along with two 50 mg of Ultram and still can talk articulately and function just fine.

I hope this answers your question, take care, and I hope you feel better!

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Too much Vicoden...very little food and a couple of beers...Makeup for SICK STOMACH PROBABLY VOMITING FOR ME.  I saw someone mention PHENERGAN earlier on the forum.  Is this the same drug used for vomiting ?I did not know it came in a form with codiene.  Gosh, you all know so much about all of this stuff.  When will my LIVER give out on me?  Taking 2-3 Vics every 3/4 hours, but not all the time because my tummy can't take it.  Anyone heard of Fiorcet w/Codiene?  Got it in hosptital after child birth. Doc gave only 2 refills.  That is when this all started.  My baby came so fast,I had no episiomity or pain killers.  Baby ripped it's way out.  OOOOUUUUUUUUUCCCH. That is when the codiene entered my life 20 months ago...  CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHEN MY LIVER WILL BEGIN TO SUFFER?  What is in the Phenergan that wacks me out?  ALL OF THESE DRUGS WERE PRESCRIBED LEGALLY FOR LEGAL PAIN.  Now, I can get Vics from friend, who should be taking them, but can't even afford them.I know the Tylenol is killing me. HELLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPP. Does the Fiorcet w/Codiene have less Tylenol then Vics?  And once again, Phenergan.....what is it?  It makes me very tired and stoned.  PLEASE CONTINUE TO POST....I AM LEARNING MUCH FROM YOU GUYS. Neena

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm sorry for the mean comments I made yesterday. I was having a bad time with pain and took too many pills.
Yes, I intend to ask my Dr. about the klonopin. I think it's worth a try. I do suffer from anxiety and take Xanax but I think the stuff is starting to have a negetive effect on me after 4 months. Maybe a change would be good?
Neena, I have been on phenergan in the past and the stuff will make you tired. I was on it for gastritis and nausea. I believe that it is an antihistamine like benadryl or dramamine(which are OTC drugs).  One thing I know for sure about it--don't take it with alcohol. I did this once and went into a blackout during the Super Bowl. Missed the whole second half!

[Chad B]

I am a pharmacuetical drug addict.  I don't have pain, I like being high, I like Percocet (it's my drug of choice, when I can get it) I am here solely to talk to people, all people.  I like talking (writing) to people.  We should not argue, this is a drug addiction board. Pain or not, you are here because you are seeking help, like it or not.  Why else would you do a search for drug addiction, percocets or whatever, unless we want some kind of closure about knowing we are not alone.  Lets get along, we are only here for a short visit, you know?  If you're in pain, talk about it.  If you're an addict, talk about it.  Be honest with each other.  We can't be seen on here, so what does it matter?  Cops, Doctors, Proffesionals, Lawers, etc... all have problems.  My doctor died last year from a heroine overdose!! Go figure huh?  I was working in my lawers house last year and a bowl and a bag of weed was laying on the sink!!! Wow big surprise huh?  You would be surprised who does what out here.  Lets just stop arguing and talk to each other.  Thank You
Chad B

[tom to neena]

don't take all that phenergan just to get to the codeine. You'll have to take so much that you'll make yourself really sick. Phenergan is an antihistimine used a lot for allergic reactions and to control nausea in pain injections. It will really knock you out and the "hangover" will last for a long time. As much as I like narcotics, if I had to have it combined with phenergan (promethazine) I'd politely decline. Don't try to get high from it. It's definately not worth it. One dose contains only 1/3 of the codeine in say, a Tylenol #3. A big red light on this one!

[tom to Chad B]

well said. my thoughts exactly. thanks for that post. peace.

[tom to neena]

I forgot to add, very important: that Fiorinal with Codeine is mega-powerful and mega-dangerous to use at high doses. It contains a barbiturate, butalbital. Can't deny that it feels pretty good. But it will, for all practical purposes, get you "drunk" on your ass. Be very, very careful with this one. Barbiturates kill. And whatever you do, don't use alcohol or that phenergan stuff with it. Please take my advice on this one. If you use the fiorinal#3, take it at the prescribed dose. You'll see that that's all you need anyway. Take care.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Thanks for the info. The Phenergan is ONLY when needed and is nice to have around for stomach flu, etc...It does give me a horrible hangover.  For days, I am in a fog.  I did not even know that people took it for a HIGH.  I was just trying to help the codiene hangover.  Re: the Fiorcet w/Codiene.  You are correct on that matter.  I learned the hard way.  Got sick all over the bathroom and messed up a expensive white carpet.  Haven't touched boozed or drugs since.  Oopps, two vicodens today, but i am very embarrassed and sick to say the least.  No high is worth this.  I had to buy a big area rug to cover sick spot.  Guess, I'll always have a reminder of how sick Fiorcet/codiene and booze can make you.  Thanks again, Neena

[Chad B]

Tom, Your welcome bro.  I understand everything that is going on here you know?  Anyway, I did want to say, I took Phenergan a couple of months ago when I had the flu, DAMN !! It was a godsend I felt soooo much better.  It is a miracle drug for a sour stomach.  I also took the other one I had when I wasn't sick, it made me feel like I had the flu !!! That's wierd huh?
Anyway Take care Tom and everyone else !!
Chad

[amber]

I just came across this forum and it is somewhat comforting to know that I'm by far not the only one who deals with this rollercoaster ride. I noticed that there are quite a few people who are concerned with the amount of tylenol in vicodin. I have been taking about 5 ES a day for the past 2-3 years. I don't take them constantly, my doc writes the script for 60 2X a day, so that should last me a month but I can usually get a refill in about 3 weeks. Recently though, I've noticed that more of my hair is falling out and I've been bruising really easy. The first thing I thought was Oh no, my liver just can't take the massive amounts of tylenol anymore. This scares me, but not enough to quit the vics. Has anyone had these things happen to them? I know that at this point in my life I'm not ready to quit. I think that someday I will stop taking so many, but not completly. I think that for the rest of my life as long as I know I am able to have access to them, I will get them. I also take quite a bit of xanax for anxiety but the craving is nothing compared to vicodin. I've never been too concerned with the idea that vicodin could kill me until just this past month. I'm 27 and I want to be healthy again, but I'm not happy unless I'm taking these pills. When I run out of vics, I don't even want to get out of bed in the morning. I get sooo depressed. Does anyone else feel this way? I'm already on Celexa for depression and it helps somewhat but its the vics that make me want to get out and face the day. Anyone have any words of wisdom?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I am currently on Lorcet in very controlled doses. I have chronic liver disease but my Dr. is keeping under 3000mgs per day of Tylenol. However, my ankles have started to swell again which is indicative of liver problems. You may also experience bruising, excessive blood clotting time, and anemia. I have all those and more problems as well. I also take Xanax with no problems that I am aware of.
When I was abusing drugs like Lortab, Vicodin and Percocet I had a problem getting out of bed in the morning. I'd have to pop a couple just to get going and had to maintain a certain level of use as the day went on. The problem was that I needed more and more as time went on. It's a downward spiral thats hard to break out of. Eventually, I graduated to stronger stuff like morphine and Dilaudid and really got myself into a lot of grief.
My good wife is now handling my meds and gives them to me exactly as prescribed. She locks them up in her safe and I don't have the combination. It's agravating as hell some times but left to my own devices, I'd get into trouble again! The point is, is that an addict can never be trusted around narcotic pain meds.

[tom to J.B.]

not much to say tonight. Must turn in early. Just hello to you.

Hope you and Marty are having a good day. Please give her my best. She sounds like a good wife and true companion. I have one at home just like her named Bobbie. She sends all her best wishes as well to you and your brave wife. Have a good one ...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You're a good man Tom. Take care of yourself and say Hi! to Bobbie for us. Thanks!

[Lexi to Tom and Jo]

I know exactly what you mean about the depression. I have tried to quit Hydrocodone so many times and I completely make it through the withdrawals. Its not the physical dependency you can't take, its the mental. I hate who I am when I'm not on hydro. I've went for months without and could not stand the depression. Depression in the most severe form. I have a wonderful husband and everything to live for but its like I can't see it unless I'm taking the pills. Best wishes!

[shayna]

O.K.  I've been reading posts on this site for about a month now and I've finally built up enough nerve to write my own. I know everyone here by name. This place is crazy (guess that comes with the territory!) One day everyone is all "lets kick the habit" and the next you guys are telling each other how to grow opium from buns! The nature of the beast. I am a 33, and I do about  10 vicodins a day on  average. I started doing pain killers after an operation about 3 years ago and I forgot to stop. I did not have any back problems but now when I dont have the pain killers I have a serious lower backache! Whats up with that? Is that real or some kind of phantom thing? I cant do any type of rehab, because I am a freelance photographer and I cannot take the time off and my family cannot know about this. I have tried lowering the dosage and it works for about 3 days, I can get down to 2 a day, then I go buck wild and eat about 15 the next day. It happens every time. I dont get depressed really just very uncomfortable. I buy everything off the street, from people I know well. I need info? how long will this bogus back thing last? has anyone else had this? does lowering dosage ever work? please help. tell me something good.....

[tom to shayna]

why does you back pain have to be bogus? It could be real. Relying on opiates also temporarily depletes your body of the real pain killers, endorphins, or at least it compromises the natural pain-coping system (Dan, help me out here). Of course, when I would go off Vics, the muscle pain would be terrible.

[Amber to J.B.]

I agree that the only way to really control the amount of narcotics to someone who is addicted is to have them dispensed to you. Unfortunatley I have nobody who could do this for me. I keep my addiction a very private matter, by boyfriend knows that I have taken many pills in the past which ended me up in a medical detox in the hospital June 1999. This is when things were really bad, I was going to Mexico at least once a month buying Phenteramine, xanax, neo-perodan, and TC#3's plus getting vicodin and xanax from my doctor. I haven't gone back to that but as far as he knows that was the end of it completely. I have pills hidden all over my room in places where I can take them without him noticing. It hurt him horribly when I went to go into detox, that I had hidden so much pill abuse from him for so long. Why is it the hardest to be truthful to the ones you love the most? I actually wait for him to fall asleep before I can go to this site. Only a handful of people know about my addiction and those are people who are in the same boat I am. One thing I wonder, does your wife ever feel in an awkward position being the person in charge of these pills? I know myself, I would be on the floor begging for them.

[Sunshine99]

To the folks who were talking about the extraction technique..From personal experience, I found that rather than just sipping the clear liquid and leaving the sediment on the bottom of the glass, it works well to use either a lab filter (works best) or a regular coffee filter on this. After the rapid cooling process, just use either the lab filter or the coffee filter...It does take some time (about 45 min) for Acetaminophen and 20-30 minutes for products containing Asprin. There will be some residue since Asprin/Acetaminophen contains non water soluable fillers...I also hate the bitter taste so I add a tsp of sugar or maybe a little kool aid powder (the pre-sweetened kind) Be careful though, as we all know, the narcotic gets to your brain alot faster (any where between 10-15 min) and if you take too much, you are at risk for repiratory arrest. I personally do not take Vicoden anymore..I got addicted to it terribly! I do take Oxycontin 20mg TID for my back, but it does not produce that euphoric feeling at that does..any of you know what the MAX dose is, cuz at times I have taken as much as 160 mg a day (I dont think thats alot thogh)

[Sunshine99]

Hi All..It's me again. I'm brand new to this site, so forgive me if I make mistakes  LOL. Someone was asking about the effects of Tylenol on the liver..Wel, being the "Good Drug addict" that I am (now  trying to be in recovery) I took Milk Thistle (herbal supplement found at any local health food or supermarket store) as well as 500mg of Vitamin C for each dose of the Vicoden. I was at the end taking as many as 16-18 Vicodens a day, and by the Grace of God, did not suffer any liver damage that I am aware of..The cool thing was, once I got past the withdrawals (I was sure I was in HELL!!) and the next 3 weeks of psychologically craving the drug., I ended up losing 25 pounds in 2 months..Not sure if the Vicoden causes water retention or something!?!?! The Oxycontin for me DOES NOT produce that Euphoria in the dosages that are prescribed to me (20 mg) but I have taken 80mg at once and it does produce a high that lasts all day..I know as an addict that I cannot do that, so I had to foce myself to go back to the right dosing schedule...My doc gave me a muscle relaxer called StaFlex..Anyone ever heard of it??? The Pharmacy didnt even have it listed in the PDR and I've found nothing on-line about it (Thats how I got to this site)  Tom, do you know anything about it?  Thanks for letting me share!  PEACE

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

After two trips through detox and rehab in five years for opiates, my wife is well aware of my problem. The rehab center here believes in getting the family involved with the addict's recovery program. Initially, I was mortified when they suggested getting my wife to go in for a councelling session with my addiction therapist. She was not surprised that I was using but was surprised about the amounts. She also thought that I simply had a drinking problem and that the drugs were not that big an issue. This session started the process of getting honest and was a big weight off my shoulders. So after five years there's no denial left in either one of us. Some days I rant and rave and want to "control" my own pain meds but in reality, I cannot.
And she will not back down or give an inch!
Someone was wondering about Tylenol and liver damage. Well, as I've said before, I have Hep C and a host of other problems brought on by chronic Hep C. When I take too much Tylenol, I retain water and my ankles swell. I also have digestive problems and bleeding both internally and externally. My suggestion is to have tests done on your liver funtion. But be aware that taking Tylenol or alcohol before the blood tests can really screw up the results.

[Amber to J.B.]

Thank you for the reply. Your wife sounds like a wonderful and very strong person. It must be really nice to be able to be totally honest with her. I would imagine that it is hard for someone who has never been addicted to understand and really stick by someone who is. (I'm assuming she has never been addicted)

[Amber to J.B.]

I also wanted to ask you something. How did you ever quit for so long and were you given any meds for depression? Even the Celexa doesen't help me through the vicodin blues. I'm panicing right now because I only have enough vics to last until the day after tomorrow, and I won't be getting anymore for at least a week but it seems like a year for me. Then I always wonder when my doctor is going to cut me off, I saw the same doc do it to my friend, she was on vicodin and valium for about two years and of course she became addicted and eventually she started getting a little more pushy, asking for refills to soon stuff like that and he cut her off. He left her with nothing. So I really have to be careful with this doc, when I quit I want it to be because I want to, not because I've been cut off. So anyways, I'm on the rollercoaster again, what kind of a life is this?      

Also to Sunshine, You LOST 25 pounds after detox? Maybe it was because of the phenteramines I had been taking but I have GAINED 25 since my detox a year and a half ago, and I am still battling this weight gain. Because of the depression associated with all this, its hard enough for me to get out of bed let alone exercise! I've been told that you just have to force yourself, easier said than done.

[shayna to phil]

I do about 10 to 12 vics a day w/ nothing else. I am not a chronic pain sufferer, just an addict. I am so ready to quit but I only get down to a couple a day for about 2 days and then the psychological craving kicks in and I am right back where I started. Over and over....  When you stop, how long does it take to get past that. I need serious encouragement, but dont lie. Do you think someone can stop on their own? Did you lower  your dosage or go cold turkey? Do the cravings ever go away? someone who has quit vics please let me know. I dont do anything else just the occasional muscle relaxer. Thanks guys I've been listening to ya'll for a while and hopefully this is a step in the right direction, it sure feels good not to feel so alone in this.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My heart goes out to you. You ask alot of good questions about addiction that I wish I had realistic answers for. The physical withdrawals last only a week at most with hydrocodone but the pshycological part can last forever. I wish there were an easy way to stay clean but there just isn't. Not that no one has ever beat this because so many do. It just takes a lot of dedication to a program like NA and a lot of work. Once clean for a while you can never let your guard down again and it helps to get spiritual about it. God knows I've tried but I've had so many relapses that I've lost count. My longest period of sobriety was 19 years with no relapse. Lately, I've lost my way and am batteling poor health and depression. Maybe someone else can give you some better news but if you read these posts, we are all desperate to get clean. Hang in there for a while longer!

[Lexi to Tom and Jo]

The first time I went without was because I had to. I had just gotten married, moved and lost my source. My doc put me on Paxil for depression (big mistake- withdrawals from Paxil alone are enough to make you suicidal and they didn't help in the least). Nothing will ever take away the Vicodin blues, EVER. About the weight thing, when I'm not popping pills, I'm eating!! Its like I'm craving something that I know I can't have and so I eat compulsively, therefore gain weight and that totally adds to the depression. I didn't want to quit because I had to either. But then I realized I was never going to want to. I just feel so much better with them. I've got about enough to last me until the day after tomorrow. They were supposed to last a month but its been about three days. After that... ?  You're right, what kind of life is this?

[Amber to J.B.]

I'm no expert on actually staying away from vicodin but I had quit about a year and a half ago for about 3 months by going into a detox. I was taking about 8 5/500 vics a day, and one thing I don't recommend is quitting cold turkey. Not only would withdrawl be hell (I had tried this) but I have read that this can be dangerous and there is risk of seizures. If you are serious about quitting I would look in your local phone book for a doctor who is an addiction specialist or contact the ASAM (American Society of Addiction Medicine) and they could probably recommend a doctor. As for the cravings, they are intense but when you really decide that you want quit I think that you can overcome this with dedication to a program. I think this is where I went wrong, I still hung aroung with the same people who I knew always had pills and I finally broke down. Even though I have relapsed, I am not taking the enormous amount of pills that I had before, I'm still addicted but better off then I was before detox. You do have a long road ahead of you but you sound like you're ready or getting closer to it. I wish you the best of luck!

[Lexi to Tom and Jo]

In an earlier post you were talking about growing opium poppies. According to this site I found, there are many types of poppy plants but only one is the opium poppy and there is absolutely no narcotic in the seeds, its all in the pods. Not that I encourage it but this website tells you everything you need to know on how to grow them, what soil to use, what time of year and how to make morphine, heroine, codeine or anything out of it. It also gives the history of opium and how it was soooo popular for soooo long. I just find it interesting.  http://opioids.com/jh/index.html

[Mike P. to Ken]

Check this out:

In the United States during the 19th century, opium preparations and 'patent medicines' containing opium extract such as paregoric
(camphorated tincture of opium) and laudanum (deodorized opium tincture) became widely available and quite popular. In the 1860s
morphine was used extensively pre- and post-operatively as a painkiller for wounded soldiers during the Civil War. Civil War physicians frequently dispensed opiates. In 1866 the Secretary of War stated that during the war the Union Army was issued 10 million opium pills, over 2,840,000 ounces of other opiate preparations (such as laudanum or paregoric), and almost 30,000 ounces of morphine sulphate. The inevitable result was opium addiction, called the 'army disease' or the 'soldier's disease.' These opium and morphine addiction problems prompted a scientific search for potent but nonaddictive painkillers. In the 1870s, chemists synthesized a supposedly non-addictive, substitute for morphine by acetylating morphine. In 1898 the Bayer pharmaceutical company of Germany was the first to make available this new drug, 3,6-diacetylmorphine, in large quantities under the trademarked brand name Heroin. 3,6-diacetylmorphine is two to three times more potent than morphine. Most of the increase is due to its increased lipid solubility, which provides enhanced and rapid central nervous system penetration.

_________

Who knew? That's alot of dope. I sure am glad they found that nonaddictive alternative to morphine though - heroin. What would the world have done without the Germans huh? Sheesh.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I believe that it was also a german by the name of I.G. Farben that invented methadone. Germany was cut off from their supply of opium during WW II and had to come up with something quick. This Farben guy became quite the hero in Germany, as you can imagine!

[Dee]

I have a question...I was reading all the threads about oxycontin and DEA..is it possible for this board to be monitored by someone..and then able to 'trace' what we say to where we are??? Iam reluctant to say anything for fear of this..

[shayna to phil]

thanks for the advice and encouragement, amber, tom and j.b.. i have been very reluctant to even consider any type of professional help thus far, but after reading your post j.b., i'm not so sure anymore. rehab is absolutely out, but i am getting interested in this doctor thing. do these docs specialize in addiction? do you think i could do this completely confidentially and descreetly? i am a fairly popular photographer in a medium sized town and i dont think my business would survive such a scandal! do these doctors just put you on different types of meds? i dont really want that. i just want to get off of pain killers. i have no legitimate pain and i dont suffer depression. i just cant let go of this monster. the real kicker is that my mom was addicted to pain killers when i was a child (she was a chronic pain sufferer),and did i ever resent her for that! now here i am. she did finally beat her addiction through a pain clinic. anyway, i just wanted to say thanks for the responses and if anyone could give me some info on these doctors i would appreciate it.

[VAL]

I asked a question and I didnt even get a response by a DOCTOR.  And everyone is talking about vicoden.  CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION -WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU O.D. ON HERION?-

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You did get one response about O.D. but it wasn't from a doctor.
They don't come around here much anymore. Personally, I'd rather hear it from someone who has actually OD'd than some doctor who probably hasn't. It's like asking a male doctor what childbirth feels like, right? Maybe if you were more specific about the subject you would get more answers. Just asking what happens when you take too much Heroine is a loaded(no pun intended)question.

[tom to VAL]

VAL, a minor overdose, you lose consciousness, breathing all but stops, blood pressure down to nothing.
Average overdose, your heart stops. You stop.

The most dangerous thing about heroin is the low threshold between a good high and death. The danger is compounded because it's street-cut and of uncertain potentcy. It's russian roulette. And snorting is no safer than shooting it. Take a pass.

[Valerie to J.B]

Thanks Tom,  I just wanted to know what my cousin went through, and how much pain he felt. (hopefully not that much)
If you have any more information can you please tell me?

Thank you

[tom to VAL]

Val,
check the site out for info on heroin:
http://www.drugtext.org/sub/opiat1.html

[shayna to phil]

don't forget me guys! i had a little setback, my wisdom teeth removed. so meds were a must! o.k. back to square one. what are these addiction docs listed under? are they going to insist on in-house detox? whats it about? help me out! i am so ready. thanks again. please answer

[Valerie to J.B]

CAN A DOCTOR PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
CAN SOMEBODY  PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What is your question? If you want to know if your cousin felt any pain while in overdose, I say no. I've OD'd but didn't die. After the initial big rush and pins and needles feelings all over, there isn't much pain. While in the military, a friend of mine shot up too much heroine and died in his bunk. There was no death agony on his face or any sign of struggle. He just went to sleep and stopped breathing. Sorry for the poor analogy here, but thats why they put animals to sleep. To keep them from suffering, they are given an overdose of barbituates.

[Valerie to J.B]

Thank you so much.
Hearing that makes me feel so much better.

Thank you again

[tom to shayna]

I've been looking into these "addiction docs." They're hard as hell to find. Yes, the ones I spoke to were all about detox and 12-step programs. They may have a few tricks up their sleeve to help you recover, but you can only get opiate agonist maintenance therapy from a methadone clinic. This country is still in the dark ages most places.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I agree that the country is in the Dark Ages when it comes to addiction treatment.  I grew up in Europe(English is my third language) and can tell you that the mind set there is so much different.  I doubt that things have changed there much since I was there.  When you get busted for posession for instance, you are considered mentally ill. In America you are a criminal and thrown into jail. In Germany, you go to the BUG HOUSE for therapy. The same was true for Holland. They believe in control and not punishment. Our "War on Drugs" here is a joke and is not being won by anybody but the cartels of S. America and the Far East.  Our war on drugs here hurt you and me more than the cartels. They are in control not us.

Don't get me wrong here as I am 100% for this country and would not move elsewhere. I just disagree with some of our mind sets and policies about drugs. Someday, we'll learn by our mistakes- the hard way. My point is that we have a million miles of dirty, bumpy road to travel before our country wakes up and smeels the coffee.

[lisa]

Hi everyone, I am new here. I started taking lortabs and Vicodins back in March for surgery. My doctor gave me 30 pills plus a refill. I didnt really need to use the first refill nevermind the second. Here is where it gets weird. I only take about 4 in the moring before I go running. I find I can run longer without feeling tired. That is the only time. I have been doing this for about  7-8 months. THe other night I felt like I was having a panic attack. I felt like my body was burning, I also got goosebumps and a racey heart. The next day I felt the same thing. I took myself to the emergency room thinking it was withdrawals from the Vicodin. They told me it was just panic attack and the from my use that I am more psychologically addicted than Physically. Needless to say I will not take any today and see how that goes. My husband has no idea about this at all (vicodin)

Also will switching to ultram for awhile help?

What do withdrawals feel like? Are they like panic attacks? I do have a history of Panic attacks and I am thinking about seeing a specialist in this field.

Thanks for the info!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Please be careful about using opiates and running. Yes they do allow you to run farther and longer and that could be a problem.

You may hurt yourself and not know it until the drug wears off.  As an example, about fifteen years ago I was using morphine to kill the pain of a back injury. I was a construction worker at the time with a major rail company and was working 16 hours a day. One day I fell into a hole and hurt myself.  But due to the morphine, I simply dusted myself off and returned to work. A few days later my right arm was all but useless but I just took more of the drug.  When my arm became noticeably deformed I decided to see a doctor.  My radius bone was broken!  To this day my arm is giving me fits in that it never healed right.

Yes, you may be experiencing withdrawals after using hydrocodone drugs for the length of time that you stated.  Panic attacks are not uncommon.  You will also have severe flu like symptoms, diarreah, runny nose, muscle twitching and spasms, lethargy, hot and cold flashes, sweating and insomnia.  Not very pleasant at all.  Then you may have to deal with depression that almost always accompanies detox from any drug.  Yes, see a specialist by all means.  Good luck and keep posting if you need any first hand experience info about addiction!

[Ricky]

Hello,anyone here addicted to Oxycontins?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Oxy Contin?  Isn't that some kind of laundry detergent?  What are you into with that?

Just kidding!  Post a more specific question and someone here will try to help you if possible.  Luckily, I have no experience with this narcotic other than what I've learned by reading the dozens of posts here about it.  It's pretty wicked stuff!

[Theresa]

What about chewing Oxy's.  I take 120 mg of Oxy a day, and it does nothing for me. No euphoria, I would rather take Lorcet 10.  They are the best.  My husband has talked to all my doctors and they will not prescribe any pain med.s any more, I see a pain specialist for the OXY.  I used to be on MS contin and did not like that at all.  Thanks to my husband all he has done is make me resent him, and make me want pain pills even more than before.  I think it is better to pop a few pills then to find some drug on the street and smoke it or use a needle.  I can not wait until February,I will be able to see my other doctor and get some pills.  You think that being off of them for about 6 months now, why would I start up again?,well my life was alot more fun and I actually looked forward to waking up so I can start my day with some friendly, take all my worries away pills.  I do not see where all the concerns are, addiction is in every one, we all have some kind of addiction some are illegal that is the only difference.

[parker]

Well, I work at a pharmacy, and have a pretty vast knowledge of perscription drugs in general. If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at ***@**** or hit me up on AIM.. my SN is ScrnNm9902

I'm neither a pharmacist nor a doctor, just so you're aware. Just an addict and a.. well. I dunno. I guess my drugs are mostly CIV's.. About 70mg of valium a day orally is.. it.

[Krissi]

2 days ago I overdosed accidently on H....obviously I did not die - thanks to my very close friend who saved my life.  What happens is your heart begins to slow (feels like falling asleep only you know you're only supposed to feel the nodding/dreaming of the drug - but instead you feel this uncontrollable slowing down) I kept saying I was "really high"  - it seemed too high, I didn't know I was dying...that my heart was about to stop.  Once my heart stopped - the blood stopped pumping & I turned white & my lips purple.  It took 25 minutes to get my heart pumping again - CPR, mouth to mouth, and punches on the heart to wake it up. I felt nothing once my heart stopped - I don't remember anything.  I saw nothing and felt nothing & right before I went out, it felt as if I just slowed to a stop, fell asleep...and there was no end - no visions - no nothing.  I woke up on the floor & asked what happened to the tear stained cries of my best friend saying he had just given me cpr & mouth to mouth - I told him not to tell me ANYTHING else - just to get me outside to wake up, breathe and walk it off - stay awake!!  I told him just this morning that if I wanted to take my life, that that would be the way - to slip off the planet & not see a thing.

[Alice To Theresa (RE: oxy queston)]

Hi Theresa. Please read my letter under the endorphin look for name Want 2bUNopiated. May I suggest doing some reaserch on Oxycontin on the net.
I too was placed on thie med (ironically, initially given to me by a psych treading me for addiction to lortab 10/5--same amout of hydro as lorcet, less acet.) I was told the same thing about the non eurhorac effect.
As you propably know, chewing them stops the time-release effect. Take a damp paper towel and gently rub off the yellow coating. Consider that percodan (oxycone) has 5mg of oxycone. 40mg of oxy = 8 percodan. Since  
I am not in anyway encouraging you to do this. Within several weeks of using my oxy's as described, I niavely started chewing 1/2 an oxy at a time and felt nearly instant europhia. Within no time at all, I needed a whole on, then two. Before long I was taking a total of 6 to 8 per day. (48 to 64 percs a day)
The next time I see my pain spec, I am having my meds doled out by a friend because I have proven I can't trust myself.
I debated tellin you how easy it is to get the europhia you desire. However, I know how easy it is to find this info on the net.
I am WARNING you how easy it is to lose control with them. I have recreationally done a lot of things. But have never become addicted before the oxy's.

e-mail me if you want to talk more  ***@**** (i can't remember how to send as link)

Merry Christmas
God Bless

Alice

[Bryan Hazard]

Hi Valerie,

Well i am not a doctor or drug counceller but i have heard and read about overdoses.One way a person can die is through a blood clot that goes directly to the heart and causes a massive heartattack.Thats how most heroin users die of an overdose.'
The opiate heroin when taken in large ammounts can cause the respotory muscles around the heart and lungs to collapse which also casues a heartattack.Although the heart might be fine and strong without the respotory muscles to sustain breathing your pretty much dead.Choking on vomit is another way in which abuseres have died in the past.

Just yesterday i heard of a guy who was a year above me in high school,was deputy head boy went to university and was finishing his honours when he died on Sunday or monday of an overdose of heroin.And i also heard that an  on off friend of mine....who i took acid with about four years ago and bumped into a couple of times at raves died of a heroin overdose.
Its getting all to common now.

[Luke]

To Valerie,You feel pleasure when you OD on Heroin.If you stop breathing for more than 4-5 mins and then are revived, brain damage will result and their will be pain, physical and psychological pain,especially because you know you have damaged your precious mind.If you are not revived and die you do not feel pain at any point.

[Person]

sorrryy to here about your couson
love person

[vikepuda]

I have been experiencing sharp pains in my left arm and heart.  It is a split second sharp pain that is startling, it occurs as I am trying to fall asleep.  The pain has started in my left arm and move horizontally to my heart and it has started in my lower abdomen moving vertically, it is a quick as a shock...here and gone with no lingering pain.  Lastnight I had 3 episodes, the sensation is an extremely quick sharp pain.  My mind is clear, my pulse is strong, it has been 3 or 4 hours since my last dose.  I do not feel overly tired or anxious....I would say I feel normal, and then I get the sharp pain and it scares the hell out of me.  This has occurred the last three nights.  I have had trouble falling asleep while on vike's before, but nothing like this

I am a recreational vicodin user.  I usually take 12-15 vicodin 7.5 per day.   I have gradually increased my dosage.  I know it is time to quit, especially with these recent episodes.  Has anyone experienced anything similar to this?

Thank you for reading.

vikepuda

[cindi]

have never had anything quite like that but i have had alot of different "jolts"  very similar to that  when on the vicodin...I can't remember exactly but i think JB or someone who is a regular here as well as myself has had experience with different types of sensations....JB?  are you out there?  was that you that I was discussing that with awhile ago?      anyway,  this type of sensation or whatever is really nothing you want to play with,,especailly is the arm and chest area as you described....you better make a trip in to see your doc and maybe be honest re;  everything...is this an option?   love to al    cin

[charm10]

Hi everyone, I always read these comments, but never ask questions or let ya'll know what is going on with me. Well, here I am!!! I have been on alot of potent pain meds, ranging from perc 10's 2every 4-6 hours, ms contin w/oxy IR, fentayl patches 50cg-100mcg, methadone 10mg 3 3x's a day for a total of 90mg/daily. My last script for morphine was 120mg/3xdaily with perc 10's for breakthrough pain. My last visit to my pain doc/surgeon, I had a choice to increase to taking an 120mg more per day.That would have been going from 360mg/daily to 480mg/daily w/ the per10's. Well I swicthed to oxycontin 80mg 2x/daily. Of course the pharmacy gave me the generic oxycodone hci er 80mg. Is this the same thing? I do get relief from my pain. but not the euphoria I got before when I took them for a short 2 months. I also take depression meds, mood stabilizers,klonopin,ambien, and other meds for medical problems. Before my switch In order for me to get out of bed for the day I had to take my ritalin and perc 10 to get energy. Percs gave me energy to do all I had to do in the day. Sweating badly is a major problem with all of them and may i mention clumsy especially in the morning. Forgetfulness is also a problem, so my doc that gives my depression ,ect meds increased my ritalin in the last month by additonal 20mg more. Being swiched every so many months with my pain meds, I end up having  alot of different pain meds left over. If you could only see all this stuff!!!! I should never be in pain with all the pain meds I have. I know better not to combine them. I'm not trying to kill myself . But, honestly sometimes I want to feel the euporia and my body is so tolerant to pain meds that I can't get it like I used to. But the best and most important is I'm getting what they were percribed for----PAIN RELIEF. By the way I have a spinal desease,buldging dics,cervical spinal stenosis,and bone growing over spaces along my spine where it should not be. MY doc told me I would have to be on pain meds for the rest of my life. I had 5 nerve block procedures within 1 summer. The last 2 I was injected 5x in my spinal cord when it usually only takes 1inject. and 1-3 procedures not 5!!!!! So, anyway here is my opening to this forum to chat w/everyone who may be on the same page I am.   Charm10 waiting to hear from you.