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Avatar universal

Oxycontin tapering vs. Suboxone

Hello folks,

I am somewhat surprised to find myself talking on a bulletin board about being an oxycontin addict, but oh well.

I have some chronic knee osteoarthritis.  I was reading an article on it, last year, when up popped an ad talking about an osteoarthritis clinical trial.  I clicked on it, took the survey, and ended up getting enrolled.  

The way it worked was 1/3 of the subjects got some new experimental medication that was an opiate, but supposedly freer of side-effects including addiction. 1/3 got oxycontin, and 1/3 got placebo.  I was sure from the first dose that I got one of the non-placebo drugs.

About a month in, my curiosity got the better of me and I broke open a capsule to see what was inside.  Inside were small round tablets I was able to identify off the internet as oxycontin.  I read about how people abuse them by crushing snorting, and, surprise, surprise, decided to try it myself.  My dose kept being gradually increased until over the last few weeks it was 100 mg per day.

I've been on it now for 4 1/2 weeks. I went in last Thursday for my regular appointment at the clinic, and the nurse I've been dealing announced, to my great shock, that they wouldn't be issuing any more study medication, and essentially I was on my own.  I had previously asked her and she had told me that, yes, I would be tapered off the drugs once the study was over, but last week she seemed to just be telling me to go off and enjoy my withdrawal.

I begged and pleaded until finally she went and got one of the doctors (not the one involved in the study, and he rather grudgingly gave me a scrip for 20 x 20mg, with instructions to take one or two per day, as needed.

Trying to stay on 40 mg was murder, and I didn't make it.  I was sick as a dog with all the symptoms I've now learned go with withdrawal, including chills, muscle twitches, horrible pain in the stomach, diahrrea, and vomiting.  

Monday I did make it down to 40 mg, but went to the doctor's office, and this time saw the main doctor, and he wrote me a scrip for 30 x 10g to help taper.  I confess I am finding it hard not to cheat and go back up with the dose, and yesterday went back up to 60 mg.

I have heard a lot about Suxoxone.  Would it be better to get off Oxy via Suboxone or to keep trying to taper down?  I was proud of myself because this doctor wanted to offer me a scrip for 60 x 20 mg, but I adjusted it downward.  That much and any slight self-control I've got going would have flown out the window.

What do folks think is the right way to approach getting off the stuff, for a guy in my situation?  I realize that by some standards my dose wasn't that high and I haven't been taking it was long as many, but the withdrawal was VERY real.  
I am not going to go looking for street drugs of lying to doctors to try to get more.  I know I'm done with it, other than the approximately 400 mg I now have left.

Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

Richard
49 Responses
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Avatar universal
Mr. Lucky66, thanks for the encouragement.

This is still tough.  I had a return of some symptoms that had let up, and so have had to go back on Immodium big time today.  In no way do I feel normal yet, mood-wise, physically, or any way, but I have to trust that it will get better.  

I feel that to try to acquire more oxy at this point would negate the suffering I've already experienced.  I hope to never take one of those again, period.
Helpful - 0
228936 tn?1249094248
Keep up the good work. You will still crave until you feel better than it will get less. You are proof that someone can taper on the drug they are hooked on and don't have to go on strong synthetic drugs to get clean. all the best.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi everyone,

Well, I wrongly expected today to be a better day than yesterday.  Today I have been just totally down in the dumps, and I mean low, low, low.  My wife and I have tickets for an event tonight and I'm absolutely bumming that I have to get up out of my chair and go somewhere, even though ordinarily it would be something I'd look forward to.

I've had thoughts again of trying to acquire more, but each day that passes that I'm off it is, I trust, a day closer to having no symptoms being off it, and getting more would just postpone the day of reckoning that I know is coming and probably force me to go completely cold turkey and suffer even more.

I don't think anything ever sank its teeth into me quite so hard, but I'm doing the right thing and encouraged by all of you to keep doing so.  Thanks again, each and every one of you.
Helpful - 0
228936 tn?1249094248
I think that's good and in most cases, I think it's better to taper on the drug you are on and have someone help to dispense if possible. I don't like the idea of using largly untested and strong synthetic drugs.
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
wow!!! super kudos to you!! I hope things continue to go well for you. I have two weeks to the day before my surgery and am still hovering ~60mgs day combined oxy/percs....but will continue to try to bring it down lower.

let us know what is helping you, or just write to express whatever you are going through/experiencing...hopefully it will help.

kitty
Helpful - 0
228936 tn?1249094248
I hope you continue dope free and you did it without sub. all the best
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I made it my first day in five months oxy free.  Yay!

I slept lousy but I don't feel too terrible at this point today.  I'm off to a Laker playoff game and that should be an excellent distraction.

I'm glad, Kitty, you're going to your spa after all.  Sticking with your original plan if you can makes sense.  
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
good for you!!!!! all I can say is I am eating up these suggestions (my own and others) for when I drop down fast this week and next. I will be staying near the beach next week and I know it is going to be so different when I am at the other end of giving advice and needing it myself. I hope I can do what you have done, richard. keep letting us know how it going for you.

kittykat
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
To KittyKat and worried878,

Funny, I ended up skipping the gym today and going for a walk by the beach.  It was good.

The best thing I can say about this day is that it's going to end before long.  I'll be glad when it's over.
Helpful - 0
401095 tn?1351391770
Glad u r hanging in there....if the weather is pretty..go for a lng walk and plan some things to keep you busy while your wife is out...rent a movie...clean out your tool room...dont know but is great u r doing so well
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
congratulations! one thing you can tell yourself is that you have made it to your goal!! that may give you a few minutes of uplift. maybe you can go take a walk, you say it's warm? go out and take a stroll, get some air, pick up a G-rated movie (something funny, like shrek or something) and make some popcorn, go out after the movie and get your favorite flavor ice cream cone, go sit in on an NA or AA meeting, take a warm shower, read a book...soon it will be bedtime and you'll know you made it through day one and I'll bet you'll feel like a million dollars. and two million when you wake up, having made it through day 1.

I confess too that I worry how I will feel when I get off altogether..I can imagine feeling at loose ends. it's kind of scary, thinking about it, b/c I've been using these meds for 1 year and so much of my life this past year has been colored by an opiate fuzz...after my surgery, I really shouldn't need these pills anymore (apart from normal post-op pain), and I have to admit I feel nervous about how I will handle life w/out pills. I mean, I did it before -- I got clean and sober in '88 and have been so up until this last year (well, and a couple of other surgeries I had a few years back) -- but I seem to have forgotten what it feels like to live clean and sober. I really want to, I just feel like I forgot what it's like.

keep us posted on your progress, rich -- we're hear for you. I always appreciate your honesty.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Well, here we are.

I'm on Day One with no oxycontin.  I feel bad, a little worse (to be honest) than I thought I would at this point.  Yawning all the time, cold (despite it being warm), and very depressed.  But I keep telling myself these are all just feelings and can't harm me in any way.   I'm doing the right thing, the only thing.  I have a fairly short addiction so my wd symptoms should be fairly short-lived, I'm hoping.

It sounds wimpy to say, but I'm also sort of distressed that my wife is going to be gone most of the day and the early part of the evening.  I feel somewhat at loose ends, but thankfully no matter how I feel I simply don't have access to more right now nor should I get more if I did.  I just have to get through it.  It's not the end of the world.

Thanks for listening folks.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
congratulations on the way you're handling your ordeal.  I went back on my oxy 20s but
my regular dose doesn't control the pain like it did just 2 weeks ago.  Another week and it should be better.  At next dr. appt I'll ask him to switch me to 10 mg (90/month at first)
with some 5/325 percs. And I can go back to a slow wean 5 mgs at a time.  Did it to get from 160mg/day down to 40mg/day but it took a few years. I need it to be over
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
To everyone,

Today was not a great day but I made it through.  I confess to drinking rather more beer than I should have but it was my first day with truly only 10 mg of oxy (I found a 10 mg pill on the floor of the bathroom yesterday--you would have thought I had stumbled upon the Hope Diamond).  

I took some hydrocodone that I had around, hoping to take the edge off a bit.  I drank beer.  I made it through.  Eventually, I know, I will be without all of these chemical mood changers, but today I just needed something.  

The temptation to try to get more pills increases daily, as my dose goes down and then goes away.  I can't believe the extent to which this medication gets under your skin and into every fibre of your being.  I seriously have this belief system now, at times anyway, that life will not be worth living without my daily dose of oxycontin.  Or that once I get clean I'll just be biding time until I get to have it again.  I have spent as much as ten years clean and sober in the past and I know I can do it again, but this is damned tough to go through.  

Thank you, flutterby, for the encouraging words.  I especially need to believe that this bad feeling of lacking something will pass.  It's like I suddenly developed an oxycontin deficiency, which strangely enough I never had until I started to take it like it was candy.

Speaking of candy, someone on another list I use for general addiction issues called it "the Devil's candy."  I can buy that.
Helpful - 0
401095 tn?1351391770
I kept a chart as well...tapered down and clean now for almost 3 months...it is worth it...tapering is not easy and  i still had some wds...but not long and not bad...good luck!  hang in there
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
I'm not on sub -- I think there's another kittykat here -- kittykat32. I'm kittykat58, and still tapering.

it's really hard, esp the first few days dropping down to the next level, but I find I do adjust. what's really weird is I am finding I am more sensitive to the narcs than I was when taking a higher dose - I thought it would be the opposite. I thought it would be such torture tapering b/c it would be like, "well, wow - I'll be going all that time using all my dope but only feeling bad and getting no buzz". but it's not true. if I take 20 mgs oxy in the morning, and then wait 4 hours and take 1.5 percs -- I still feel it, get a little pain relief, get a little buzz, too. I thought I'd be getting bupkis. I was taking 30mgs oxy 3X/day with 4-6 percs for bt...now I'm taking 20mgs oxy in the am and 20 mgs in the afternoon, and 1.5 percs 2-3X/day -- and I get good effect.

soon I want to drop it down to 10mgs oxy 3X/day, then 2X/day with percs for bt....those are my next goals. it is really hard though b/c my body and brain constantly tell me to take more (esp since I =have= more!!), but if I stay disciplined I am finding I am still getting reasonable pain relief w./out having to go through complete wds....it's hard, but it is do-able. you have to completely commit to the long-term goal.

I find it helps me too to keep a chart -- then I see my progress coming down and can feel proud and good. and I feel like I'm waking up, coming back from the dead, being more fun to be around at work, remembering more, making more sense, etc. that's a nice feeling
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
You won't always feel like this, but please don't be discouraged if it doesn't get better overnight.  It will take time.  In a few days you should feel a difference!  ☺  
To Rich and Kitty,
I'm so impressed with those who can taper.  ALthough, I believe Kitty has turned to Sub now-which is a great tool to stay clean.

Do you think you'll need aftercare RIch?  Or was this it?  I only got the drugs from the doctors...never bought them from the streets.  But I still started going to NA meetings last Friday.  Been to 3 this week.  Just to keep positive.
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
glad to hear of your progress. today I had 40mg oxy and 4.5 tabs of percocet. I feel a little racy but basically ok. I am ignoring that little voice that is telling me I can have another 10mg of oxy b/c I've been "good". I want to get this DOWN. it helps so much to keep it on a chart (shows me my progress) and it helps to write about it here, too.

you are so intelligent. I can hear it in the way you write. and it is true that you will feel "normal" someday. I don't know when. but if you think about the emotional and mental physical strain of drug dependence, and the stress of withdrawal, it's no wonder you are tired and wanting to sleep. I wish I could just crawl into bed and sleep, but I have a job and a husband and a child and about a billion things I have to take care of every week....

I think it's awesome that you're doing a better-than-nothing work out, too. ...
anyway..., keep going, you rock!  :)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Kittykat, I am hanging in.  Today is my first day with just a 10 mg dose, and then I get the same tomorrow and then that's it.

The worst part is mental, not physical, at this stage.  Normally by this time of day I've gone to the gym and that generally improves my mood, but yesterday I could barely summon any energy to work out and ended up doing what I call a BTN (Better Than Nothing) workout, and today I'm not so sure I'll even do that.  

I suppose it's okay to be lazy for a few days, but my fear is that I'll always feel like this from now on.  It's irrational, but it's something that keeps popping into my head--like I've permanently changed my brain and it will never recover.  Please, to the extent that is true for anybody, I don't want to hear it right now.  I'm trying to be positive that in a few days I'll be back to something close to normalcy and I need to believe that.

Good job on continuing to reduce your dose.  I can't help thinking that's the best bet for you if you can manage it.  
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
how are you doing, richard?

I've gotten back on track now, and yesterday got down to 50mg oxy and only 3 percocets. this is the best I've been since probably november. I hope you are doing ok...  :)

it actually happened b/c I ran out to make my physical therapy & blood bank appointment at the hospital, and forgot to bring my day's allocation of pills (I keep them in a little pill case that fits in my pocket). so I went from 11:30am - 4pm with nothing at all, then decided when I got home to just take a low dose to take the edge off the pain and wds. I took one more 10mg in the evening b/c my pain was kicking up pretty good again, and actually could've used more, but then decided at 10 just to go to bed. so today my plan is to stick to that dose.

I also went to the gym and even though I'm stiff and sore today, I feel good that I'm strengthening up the muscles I will be needing the most post-op. it's so easy to sit around like a slug and wonder if it's soon enough to take your next pill!

hope you are hanging in there...
kittykat58
Helpful - 0
473384 tn?1210206242
hi rich --

I think getting lots of sleep is GREAT, especially if it's deep, healthy REM sleep. your body is probably just telling you what you need. I hope the next few days go really well for you! I've been getting much better sleep (including dreams) since cutting down. I think it'sreally healthy for (your, my) mind(s).

my own plan is to continue to plateau on my (60/day plus 15-20 mgs for bt) for a little while and then make another stab at decreasing. I'm not motivated anymore AT ALL since I've been given permission by both pharmacy and anesthesia to continue to allow myself pain control....

the way my doc put it is, "you decide (rrrrip of the prescription pad). it's good to bring the levels down a bit but you still have to function". so I have a couple of rxs I can fill next week if I want to. the pharmacist at the hospital said there are people who come for surgery on lots higher levels, so I guess they know how to manage it...but I have to decide what is best for ME, not make decisions based on favorable comparisons to others. the truth is, though, that mostly I'm just hearing what I want to hear, without manipulating to get these recommendations (and loving it!).

I made a reservation yesterday for a hotel at a beachside community not too far from home, one with a spa...the reservation is for the week before my surgery, for 3 nights. the only thing is, if I'm not really tapering anymore it feels like kind of a waste of money, b/c the main reason was to give myself a retreat with a deep tub and available massage, nice places to walk, etc, to help manage wd. I don't know how I'm going to get motivated again (truth) to cut down if they're telling me I don't really have too...

ideas?
kittykat58
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Franco,

So, did you resume the oxycontin, or switch to something else.

I'm planning to go forward without opiates as most of my pain is upon use, and clears up when I rest.  I just love to do stuff so much that sometimes pain is unavoidable.  Last fall I went to Europe for three weeks and spent all or part of every day walking, going up and down numerous stairs (some in ancient ruins with no rails, etc.,) and that was when I first began to take pain meds over and above Celebrex.  I believe just taking a few darvocet here and there made me much more susceptible to the lure of joining this study.

I'm down to 20 mg per day for one more day and then to 10, and then nothing in a few more days.  I've gone through all of my supplemental supply so this time it's for real.  I think I'll be okay.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I was taking 40 mg/day for pain relief.  Tried to quit c/t. The ache in my spine was unbearable and I broke down. Pain had been at lowest level in years, now its at its worst
in years. Good ideas always backfire on me.
Good luck whatever approach you use
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Kittycat and others,

I'm hanging in there and kind of hopeful.

I'm curious if anybody else has the side-effect of withdrawal of being able to sleep endlessly.

This is something that, unlike the other effects, I would pay money to experience ordinarily.  I go to bed at something like, say, 1 AM, and I wake up periodically in the morning, starting around 8 AM.  Okay, at 8 AM, it's reasonable to sleep some more if you don't have to be somewhere or do something early, but I wake up periodically, sometimes for up to fifteen minutes at a time, get on my computer, check my stocks, do various things, and then go back to bed.  I can sleep, I swear, 12 hours, and often do, and all of the last five or six hours are deep REM sleep with dreams and such.  

My wife says she doesn't see anything wrong with it, and neither do I while I'm withdrawing, but it's weird and feels indulgent.  I've read numerous accounts of folks going through oxy withdrawal and NOT sleeping, so I feel fortunate, but I have never slept like this in my life ever before, and I'm 55 years old.  Part of me feels guilty, but only because I haven't had much to do (I'm self-employed and haven't had any early AM appointments, etc.).  I could get up fine if I needed to but I just allow myself to sleep because waking life doesn't have much appeal for me right now.

I eventually get up and have no appetite for breakfast.  I drink coffee, and instead of enjoying it I break out in a huge and uncomfortable sweat.  I finally take a shower and I emerge freezing to death (except for the last couple of days in which it's been broiling here).  And so on.  So I just let myself keep drifting off to sleep until something close to 12 PM or sometimes later.  It's ridiculous, but I figure it cuts down on the waking hours during which I might miss or crave oxycontin.  

Kittycat, I wish you the best in getting ready for your surgery.  I have several surgeries that my orthopedic guys thinks he should do (torn meniscus, right knee--chondral defect, both ankles, and exploratory surgery on the left knee, the arthritic one), but I am afraid of not being able to control the pain until I get off of this strong stuff and get drug free.  

I fear for you if you go into joint replacement with an already existing oxycontin tolerance, but it's better than where you were a few months ago, right?
Helpful - 0
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