Oxycotin relapse (sort of)...again

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

OK I am going to be honest....I filled my script and did them. I didn't want to tell anyone that because I know how most of you are going to react. I have been out for a couple of days and I am not going through much of a detox. I am however so sad at what I am doing to myself. I hope you guys don't give up on me because you think I will just fill my next script when it is due. In my heart I know this is killing me. I just don't know what to do anymore. The only time that I am happy is when I chew a couple of oxy's. If I am not high then I am not interested in anything. I don't understand why this is happening. Will I ever be able to lead a productive life without pills? It is not fair to both my girlfriend (who used also)and I to keep doing this to ourselves. I mean we went through 50 pills in 7 days. Then the same thing happens....where do we get more, how much should we spend. I am so damm sick of the cycle. How do you break it? I am tired of counting the days till my next refill. I hope someone has some words of encouragement as we are at our witts end. I feel like such a jerk for comming to you guys for help. After all I knew in the back of my mind that I was going to fill that last script. I hope you all will realize that I trully want to quit for good. I am tired of waking up in the middle of the night feeling so empty. PLEASE HELP!!!

[joedice]

hi , i feel so much like u its a carbon copy. i said so many times i was going to make it. i just made my 3rd day when baam i got a hold of 20 oxys 20mg wow i couldn,t refuse. so here i go again....there is no use in saying ...(chad) said it all exactly like i would have...so lets no beat ourselfs up so we screwed up we will try again...   i have been fighting this battle for 10 -1/2 years now...thats about it for now..god bless us all...were not alone anyway....joedice.....

[to chad]

buddy,every month we go through this. you do not want off. pint blank. once you have the script you know the story. until you are ready to confront your doc, which you know will be the turning point,take them and quit telling us how guilty you feel. what a waste. do them, go shop til you drop and enjoy. when you are ready...TELL THE DOC....plain and simple bro....but quit whining ...finish them and call the doc or you are just jerking yourself...you know it brother.....call him...dn't look for absolution. i'm not being mean...you know.

[joedice]

i think u read my post wrong buddy... if that was ment for me...thanks for the kind words joedice

[Von to Brian]

I admire your candor with respect to this problem, and I can certainly empathize. It's great to have found a group to go to where so many have the same problem, and can be supportive even when others relapse. I often feel the same way, that I'm not really happy or motivated if I don't have a couple Vicodins to chew. But this morning I really needed them, I took about 3 Vicodins and some Roxys when I got up, and am feeling much the better fot it now. You say you plan to get off all pain meds totally? What, if I may ask, did your physician prescribe them for in the first place? Do you want to replace them with a non-narcotic pain med, if you do need some type of pain management? I'm curious, because I may want that at some point, but for now, I plan to continue the regimen my doctor has me on, which is Vicodin ES, Roxicodone, and Xanax. My problem is with the Roxy and Vicodin, I haven't been making it to the end of the month, like you had mentioned. I also count the days till the next refill and all that, and I just want to manage my intake better with those. But beating yourself up for taking some after you planned to detox off them completely isn't the answer, I believe. It's extremely difficult, and I don't blame you for doing what you did, I'm sure I'd have done the same thing. Did you tell your doctor you want off them? He/she could give you some meds to help with w/drawals, I know how debilitating that is, been there many times. I think Clonopine is one, others here know much more about that from the posts I've read. Anyway, I hope you're doing Ok. The best advice I know to offer is to try to refrain from feeling guilty about it and seeing yourself as a "bad person." And ask for help with the weaning process, you're more likely to be successful that way.
Regards,
Von

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Thanks Von, If you want, go down to the post I made on 8-18. It tells a little more about me. As far as the need for pain meds. I do not need to use them for pain. I just abuse them for pleasure. No, I didn't tell my doctor I wanted off. Like I said before, I am familiar with the detox thing. That isn't the problem as much as the fact that I don't feel happy without them. I hope that as time passes I will not desire to use anymore. Do any of you feel like that? I would love to know that there is light at the end of this tunnel. As far as not telling my doc....I don't know what to do about that. I mean if I am serious I could just stop filling the scripts that he writes me. Chad

[Gene to Joanne]

Chad,
As an Oxy junkie myself, I know how hard it can be to stay away from them.  They definitely make life more fun, at least for a while.  If you are really serious about staying away from them, then you have to do things that will help you to stay sober.

First of all, you need to tell your doctor that you don't want any more Oxycontin.  You should even tell him that you don't need them and that you are addicted.  This way you won't have the thought of your upcoming script in the back of your mind, knowing that you can do them again when the script comes due.  I know you probably don't want to burn any bridges with the doctor but the only way to cut off that source is to let him know what's going on so he will not write another script during a moment of weakness on your part.

Of course you can always get them from the black market, as I did for so long.  That's where a good support system like AA or NA can make the difference between sobriety & addiction.  If you've tried the meetings before & didn't feel comfortable there, then you might want to try some other meetings in different places.  There is quite a difference between meetings in different parts of town or in different towns.  I have found 3 meetings that I absolutely love to go to. The people there are very friendly, optimistic, loving, honest, and positive addicts who actually know my name.

I go to AA because the meetings are a world better than NA.  I don't even have a drinking problem at all but if I wasn't allergic to alcohol, I would definitely be an alcoholic!

The meetings help keep me focused on why I got sober, how to stay that way, and how others do the same as well as their daily struggles in life.  I often forget why I need to go to the meetings but after I go to one, I remember how much I love them and the people there.  Without AA, I would have zero chance of staying sober after 28 years of daily drug use & abuse.

Keep on posting.  No one here thinks any less of you because you had a "slip".  We all slip, even me!

[Von to Brian]

After reading your initial post, I was wondering if you still have any pain related to the back surgery? You say you are now just taking them for pleasure, but I know invasive procedures like you had, particularly on the back, can often result in chronic pain of some degree at least. Hopefully in your case it's different, but do you still need pain management? If not, why is your doctor prescribing them? You tell him you still have pain? I don't feel comfortable discussing with my doctor my problem with management, though I've alluded to it, and he didn't turn on me or anything. As for the feelings of euphoria you experience, of course I and most of us here would understand that. I am more happy and active when I'm taking mine, there's no question. Can you return to being happy once you're off of them? I'd say of course you can. Three years ago, I wouldn't take pills for anything, I stuck to my Xanax because I need them, but other than that, nothing. I was happy, I ran a lot more than I do now, I felt great, and got many natural "highs."  I still enjoy running and workouts and feel the natural high from that, but it's intertwined now with my pain meds.

Your girlfriend's dependence on them may make it more of a challenge for you to wean off, but as long as she's adamant about getting off of them as well, you both have each other's support. If you relapse, let us know, it helps to have a nonjudgemental group to go to for support. I believe you're right in assuming that in time, you'll return to enjoying life without the oxys and not desire them anymore. I went through detox last year to try to get off the pain meds, and after a couple weeks, I had no desire for them and the w/drawals were gone. But I still had some recurring pain and chose to go back on them for that reason, not to get "high."  But I've relapsed back into going through them too quickly, and I'm not proud of it at all, and am working to correct that. It's nice to be able to talk about this in a nonjudgemental environment, among people who have been there and may still be there.  I wish you the best in your endeavor, and hope to hear how it's going for you.
Regards,
Von

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Thanks for the supportive words guys. It really does help.
Von, you make a good point. I just started using oxycotin and perks scince my surgery. Before that I never did a pill in my life and kind of made fun of "pill heads". I did speed for awhile but quickly got bored of it. OK, maybe "quickly" isn't the right word. I did it for years. The point is I never think about doing speed. I don't have any cravings for the stuff. The problem is that I think that pain meds or opys are ten times more dangerous then most drugs out there. The reason is simple. I npersonally never woke up the next day after using speed and said "hey, let's do some more!". On the pills however, a person feels "normal" so the desire to repeat that feeling is there the next day. The funny thing is that I thought that I would never be happy without speed. After awhile, things returned to normal and my craving for that drug slowly dissapeared. I hope the same will be true for theese oxy's but I am scared that it won't go away.
Gene, I never attended an AA or NA metting. I think that I just might this time. If I know that it will help my cravings then it is something that I am defintly interested in.
I am just scared as to what the future brings. Like I said before. When I am high, I talk and get along great with everyone. I love going to the malls high. When I am straight...forget about it! OK, I'll write more later and awnser more of your questions. For now I am going to celeberate the philadelphia eagles win over the redskins.....straight!

[Frankinscense]

Methadone or LAAM maintenace is for addicts that continue to fail attempts to get off opiates. Consider these methods. They are very helpful. What do you all have to loose? Just maybe you will like them. AT least look into it. >>>What keeps you all from looking into this method of controlling your addiction? At least answer this question!<<<  Got a question? I will reply.
Six Year MMT patient,
      Danny

[to chad and von]

first off, von, why is it you seem to not believe chad when he tells you he's actually just abusing the pills and doesn't have pain??  seems to me you're trying to justify in YOUR mind YOUR own use/misuse of narcotics.  you'll no doubt be just where chad is at some point in the future.  as for you chad, same story, different month.  you obviously DON'T really want off the pills.  you say you do, but actions speak louder than words.  you do NOTHING to try to stay off them except complain after you run out.  IF you were really serious about staying off them YOU WOULD TELL YOUR DOCTOR!!!!!  as long as you have scripts coming each month YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET OFF THE PILLS.  is that making any sense to you??  go to NA meetings, call the doctor and tell him you're addicted and don't want/can't have any more narcotics, and get your f***in life on track buddy!  you need some tough love here, not the "oh chad, you poor thing, it's gonna be ok" while you continue to f up your life AND your girlfriend too.  remember, you should be going to school at this point.  instead, you're strung out on narcotics, no degree, no job and no future UNTIL YOU WAKE THE F UP!!!  get real with yourself my friend, you're headed nowhere.

[Gina]

Until you get some help from OUTSIDE your little circle of comfort you will never go anywhere towards beating your addiction. You need to set small goals and have them monitored by a counselor or group therapist. How many more times are you going to try (and fail) on your own. This has been going on for months and months. Every time you try and fail you lose the some of the FIGHT to try again. Please get involved with some help from NA or AA or better yet OUTPATIENT THERAPY to get you on the right track. Haven't you figured out you can't do it by yourself? When I finally got into O.P. therapy, I went 5 days a week for 4 hrs a day. The first thing I had to do was tell my dr. that I could no longer get the 120 Lorcet with 5 refills he was prescribing. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. I probably would have severed a limb first if I had a choice. But the truth was I no longer had a choice, if I was serious about getting clean. After I told my dr. I received so much support from my other group members that I was actually proud of myself. This forum is not a subsitute for real treatment. I believe that it was Brian who recently stated he had made the mistake of doing just that. GO CHAD and move forward today. Make the phone calls and appts. you need to start recovery. NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I tend to agree with the previous poster.  If you have never been to an NA or AA meeting, then maybe you are not at all serious about recovery.  You may also need professional help, but have you sought any?  I have been reading your posts here for several months and it seems you are caught in a vicious cycle of abuse.  Everyone here loves you Chad but don't expect us to be your enablers.  We can't do all the work for you while you sit around doing nothing to help yourself.  Please get with the program!  Actions do speak louder than words, show us some action before we lose the ability to take you serious and write you off as another loser.  If my post makes you angry-so what?  I've been down the road you've chosen myself and it just doesn't work.  Take care!

[seeing it all]

i tend to strongly disagree with  some of you peoples advice to get methadone. bullshit that advice sucks for most. if you guys are too weak and it worked for you good going but to advise somebody else to go that route is totally wrong.white knuckle it and stop the ****! your gonna be dead or doing a long prision term if you don t stop.if all other routes fail you then try the methodone maintence program. but kiss your life as you use to know it goodbye.very weak bunch of junkies in here !!!!!!. your not wanting to quit your using this board till you get your next refill. ps. dont bullshit a bullshitter!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You said it quite eloquently my man!  There is no easier, softer way to get off of drugs.  It takes work and lots of it.  There is no magic pill that will ever make you normal again after the dragon has bitten you.  Keep posting and maybe someone will get the message!

[Impressed]

I am impressed with the incredible grasp of the English language that the "seeing it all" poster obviously has.  A very stirring oration!

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

You are more then 100% correct!!  You have to REALLY want to get out of this way of life and there is no other way out but to do it cold turkey and to have the true will. You need to have your mind put totally into it. Believe me I know. The only way is to white knuckle it. Its over fast believe me. There is nothing wrong with NA and AA for support but like I said, you must mean it when you say you want to stop, or it just wont work.
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. Clean for 5 years!!!!

[to chad and von]

That must be the dumbest thing ever written.  "There is no other way out than to do it cold turkey..."  First of all, that is patently FALSE information.  Medication is far better to get someone off the drugs than cold turkey.  That doesn't mean methadone, which is better as a maintainence medication than a detox med.  It DOES mean other medications to assist: buprenorphine, clonidine, bentyl, xanax/ativan, etc.  Many addicts fail to quit BECAUSE of the severe withdrawal.  Maybe you were too ignorant to get medication to assist you, or perhaps you just like to "gut out" pain, but most people would be benefitted by detoxing with medical help.  Furthermore, just getting off the drugs is only the first step.  Maybe that's all it took for you, but the vast majority of people will relapse UNLESS they do some sort of recovery program (NA, AA, private therapy, etc.).  So, kindly post your info as simply what worked for you.  Do not spread misinformation as though you are preaching the gospel, which you are not.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

If you read my post again you will see where I suggested using NA.
All the drugs you suggested to use to detox are also ADDICTING and you must wean from those as well. But I am sure that YOU KNEW THAT SINCE YOU ARE THE AUTHORITIVE FIGURE HERE WITH ALL THE ANSWERS!
This forum seems to be run by a chosen few and if anyone else dare suggest anything there seem to be a few "regulars" that jump down our throats.

Kiss my ass!!!!

[Von to Brian]

I never implied that Chad was "lying" when he stated he took his meds just for pleasure. Given his stated history, I thought it a legitimate question as to whether he still had any continued pain from his surgery. If so, I'd say he may be in need of pain management, or perhaps not. Which is why I asked the question. As for your implication that I am somehow "justifying" my own "abuse" of medication, I take offense with that. You don't know me, or others enough, for that matter, to make such a sweeping generalization.  Furthermore, shouting and resorting to putting people down for being forthright in expressing their struggles isn't exactly what I'd consider to be empathetic, or even mature for that matter.

Chad, you can return to being virtually pill free, or narcotic free, given time and determination. If you feel you need help with it, you know where to go for that. I've gone off them for significant periods of time the past couple years,  felt just fine, and took OTC meds for pain. Then the pain got to where the OTC's weren't effective, so my doctor put me back on Vicodin ES. He's scheduled tests in the meantime to try to pin the problem down.  So we're working towards a goal, and I'm satisfied with that.  What types of treatment plans do you and your doctor discuss, if I may ask?

Well, I'm going to catch some of the political spin for a bit, though I should proceed with caution, lest we political junkies succumb to an overdose.
Regards,
Von

[Charlie to C]

Hey man, just chill out and take a good, long look at where you want to go with your recovery.  I think people posting here should simply "suggest" what has worked for them in the past; not preach to someone reaching out for help.  Relapse is a common occurence with  the disease we all have.  I have kicked opiates with medication.  This was 5 years ago in an in-patient treatment facility.  I was given the usual; librium, vitamins, and I tapered slowly off of the hydrocodone, under a doctor's watchful eye.  I stayed clean for 4 years, and I relapsed in September of 99.  I used until September 2000, 2 months ago.  I detoxed on my own this time "cold turkey".  It was a real *****.  I have been clean now for over 60 days.  Life is so much better, not having to find hydro or oxy every day.  I wish you the best of luck, whichever way you decide to try and kick it.  Just remember, one day at a time, and if you don't make it post again and let us know.  I hope you do kick it and stay clean, but you have my support 100% regardless of the outcome.
CHARLIE

[Charlie to C]

Hey man, just chill and take a look at the whole picture; where  do you want to go with your recovery and to what measures will you take to get there?  Personally, I think people who post here should simply suggest what has worked for them; not preach to people who are reaching out for help.  Sure, the best thing for you to do is to come clean with your doctor and stop the scripts and refills.  That is much easier said than done.  If, for some reason, you get clean and then relapse, you are completely on your own for resources.  It's easy for some of the people who posted earlier to tell you to tell the doctor and get on with your program, but it's another thing when you are shaking like a dog sh-----g peach seeds, ready to do anything for a pill to end the withdrawals.  I wish you the best of luck.  For myself, I ran out of my last script and then quit "cold turkey".  Five years ago I went to an in-patient rehab and quit with meds under a doctor's watchful eye.  I have done it both ways and I was able to get clean.  I stayed clean for 4 years the first time, and I have been clean now, after detoxing on my own, for 64 days.  I hope you can get there soon.  If you do relapse, post again and I'll give you my full support; you will not be judged by me.
CHARLIE

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've been reading some of your old posts and am proud to hear you are doing so well!  Sixty four days is a long time to be clean and I hope you keep adding more days.  I've always said that stopping is the easy part, staying stopped takes a lot of grunt work and vigilence.  It's always waiting just around the corner, waiting for the instant we let our guard down-a moment of weakness.  Depression has always been my weak spot so I work on depression first.  The main thing is that you have to learn all you can about yourself so you can give focus to your weaknesses.  The longer you stay clean, the better are your chances in recovery.  Good luck and be well!

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I understand all of your views. I have a question. How do I find out about a AA or NA meeting in my area and what can I expect?
I am still so frusterated at this whole thing and feel like ****! I need help!!!!!! chad

[To Chad and Everyone from Kimberly]

I have been going to this wonderful site for about a year and I remember your original post.  I too have not been able to make it yet.  I feel very guilty, my life revolves around the pills and now so does my family's.  I have lied to my doc and been well supplied for the past few months.  I have chronic Kidney stones, I am 33 and I have 2 children.  I can get more pills in a few days and I just don't want to be on this anymore.  My pain is minimal right now and I have been looking into meditation and other methods to deal with the pain when it comes back.  But I don't take them for pain anymore, I take them to feel motivated and happy.  I have detoxed before and never got any better, meaning the withdrawls went away but I never got any energy or enthusiasm back.  I never tried NA or AA, I think I will.  Maybe that is my problem,  I need help sticking with the shitty feeling until I physiologically begin to be able to make myself happy and interested in life.  I have support at home, but my boyfriend is also an addict, addicted to everything, although he only uses Marajuana at the time, this is his attempt to slowly let go of all his addictions.  We are thinking about hypnotism, I have heard it helps some people.  I have always been the strong one, among my friends and family and when I talk to them about this I hear, "Youll be OK, You can do it"  I feel it is very minimized by them.  I know they believe I am strong enough to do get through it but someone needs to understand that this is so much bigger than anything I have ever gone through.  But I guess you can't understand until you go through it.  I have a lot of interests and I feel if I can hang on to them without the drugs I will be OK.  Thank you for listining to me vent and sorry about my horible spelling.  God Bless  Kimberly

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

First of all my stomach is in knots reading some of the posts that seemed to be so filled with RAGE.  Most of us are in a VERY tight spot and are doing our best to get out of the vicious circle.  Myself I dont come here for the TOUGH LOVE approach but for guidance.  Knowing that there are people here that are like me helps me to get the courage to UNDERSTAND what is happening.  I have a disorder that I need the OXY.  But, I too like others run out early because of a few days of TERRIBLE pain.  I run out, my pain is back, myself and my household comes to a stand still.  I now give my husband at the beginning of my refill my Oxy's and the Perk's I take for breakthrough pain.  He helps me to not run to the cabinet at the first twinge of pain.  I have a successful husband, two beautiful kids and a disease that devestates my life!  My 6 year old did a little questionaire at school about what mommy likes to do.  Her response was "stay in bed all day".  It hit home then what Chronic Pain can do to you.  It is also hard when it hits home that along the way it has turned to addiction.  For those of us that it has happened to that way is a tough reality.  Without my medications I might as well be Superman holding Kryptonite.  I wish I did not need the meds.  I am on Zoloft, and Blood Pressure medicine too.  I do Chiropractic, Yoga, Meditation, and TENS unit. I look forward to the day when I can be pain free and pain meds free.  I dont just use the pain meds for a BAND AID. They help me to be a parent helping out in my kids class.  It allow me to work part time.  It give me QUALITY OF LIFE.  My heart goes out to Chad and those that play the monthly mental mind games with themselves.  I myself just want to thank those of you out there that have helped me and you dont even know it.  I can tell you folks things that I cant tell anyone else.  When I see a post from a mom with kids trying to do the right thing and having trouble along the way because of addiction my heart aches.  I thank god for most of you posters here.  I just have not been on in a few weeks and it just seems like there is alot of hostility here as of late.  Please dont yell at me too.  I really enjoy this site.
Sincerely,
Shelly.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Chad, look in the phone book under Alcoholism.  Right now the telephone is your best friend.  One thing about AA is that you will get away from the house for a while and be with real people.  That's very important.  Plus you won't be able to con, baffle or awe them with your story.  One thing for sure is that you will find some people who you will really admire and be able to look up to.  It's humiliating, but nothing compared to what we've already gone through!  And always remember that nobody will ever look down on you for being there.  Oh what power there is in the fellowship of AA if only we would tap into it!  And it will always be there for you whenever you decide to go.

[to chad and von]

I'm glad you come here for support.  SO does Chad.  However, if you have been coming here for a long time, you will know that Chad has posted the same question, month after month.  He gets off the pills, proclaims he wishes to quit forever, but...always has his refill waiting in a month.  So, he asks for help, we tell him the same things, i.e. as long as the refill is going to be there, so will the active addiction; go to NA; get yourself some other help, etc.  He then does absolutely nothing, gets the next refill, and the process begins again with a new post.  Now if you are upset that we don't keep coddling Chad, "oh, poor Chad, relapsed again, what can we do for you?" I am sorry.  His situation is TOTALLY different from yours.  You need the pills to live a functional life, whereas his pill use is DESTROYING any semblance of life he has.  Do you know he is unemployed?  That he dreams of going to school to better himself?  Well, you need to know this to understand our posts.  We CARE about Chad, enough to yell at him occasionally since holding his hand has NOT worked.  Do YOU have a better idea?  This young man is going NOWHERE on a fast train and some of us want to try to stop him from destroying his future.  If that means being tough, so be it.  CHAD WAKE UP!!  Call the national 800 number for NA to find meetings in your area.  I don't have it but if you call 1-800-555-1212 I'm sure you can get it.  PLEASE go to meetings, they do help.  Call the doctor and tell him about your addiction.  IF you don't you are destined to fail.  PLEASE help yourself.  You may have a future ahead of you IF you can get off these pills.  Phil

[Charlie to C]

I appreciate your encouragement!  I can relate to where you are coming from when you say staying off is the hard part; that's putting it mildly; it's one hell of a ***** to function without my opiates.  But, overall, it is a much, much better life without using.  I wish there was some way I could use recreationally, just week-ends and once or twice during the week.  I know this is not possible.  I, also, go through the depression that seems to be a part of the sickness we all know too well.  I've got some child custody issues that I am dealing with, and I have been pretty down and out lately.  My ex-wife found out that I had relapsed and is in the process of getting my visitation taken away,  or at least cut way, way back.  My attorney tells me that I will be O.K., as long as I stay clean. Sometimes it would be so easy to take a handful of oxycontin, but I know this is not an option.  Good luck to you and GOD BLESS.  By the way, have you talked to Tom lately?  The last time I sent him a post, he was dickering with the idea of meth clinics.  I hope things have worked out for him.
CHARLIE

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Child custody issues have got to be the cruellest thing we ever have to go through.  Last year we lost a grandson in a custody battle(very long story)and have all but given up hope of ever seeing him again.  We send letters, cards and gifts and all are returned unopened.  It's very sad and downright hurtful!

I've posted to tom a couple of times about the MMT program but got no response.  I've considered it myself but decided that I have enough problems in my life.  Many chronic painers say that methadone is a Godsend, but that is a different matter.  I'm sure that tom will do what is best for tom.  Be well and keep your chin up!

[Frankinscense]

I wish that I could convince you both of of the normalising effects of MMT. You both must know that long acting opiates maintain addiction/pain much more efficiently  than hydro/oxycodone or the long list of short acting opiates. Methadone is an excellent antidepressant. The only reason it is not used more frequently is because of it's CII status. The only drug that might be a bit superior to methadone for depression is buprenex because it supposedly lasts 72 hours and its dopamine enhancing properities.
The person suffering from depression while taking short acting opiates is due to the direct effect these substances have on your endorphin supplies. If you can't take it from me check with Dr. J. Paytes website  or try links under opiates  while reading "THE GOOD DRUG GUIDE" put out by HEDWEB AND BLTC researchers. This drug guide is a must read for anyone that is taking any psychoactive drug. There are very many summaries done by some the best drug researchers on the planet.
Best To You Both-
Dan...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I was discussing pain meds with my doctor during my last appointment and he indicated that he would like to put me on the longer acting drugs(opiates).  He said they are much easier to work with as far as pain control goes. There are too many ups and downs with the short acting stuff I'm taking now plus they aren't meant for chronic pain control.  However when I mentioned methadone, he just gave me that startled doctor look of concern.  He would rather have me on OXY Contin which I don't want to get involved with and it is expensive even compared to MS Contin.  I really don't know what to decide but I'll keep reading your posts.  For me, addiction is not an issue here.  Addiction is a long term prospect and I don't have much time left according to my latest test results.  Now the truth is out about me, I've said it!  Just want to be comfortable and somewhat lucid during the time I have left.

[Frankinscense]

J B really sorry to here that! Sounds like a look from another uninformed doc. I have been on MMT for six years and feel great.
My depression and pain issues are under control. I am on MMt, as you read to correct the imbalances short acting opiates produce.
Are you going to a pain doctor? I have heard  tha they prescribe it regularly. The thing I like about methadone is it has no effect on the liver. I have heard methadone is fairly in expensive. I pay 45.00 a week for counseling and meds. People with advanced hep take methadone with no problems. I still sound like I am trying to convince you  of something but I am just wanting to give you some facts.  Well my friend, I am sorry to hear that sad news from you. My prayers are with you. Until I hear from you again, BE Spiritual and my best goes out to you!
Dan...

[Jess--to Dan and J.B.]

Out of curiousity, do you get some kind of commission from the sales of MMT? That would seem to explain your habit of constantly supporting it to practically every addict who posts on the subject of opiate addiction. Perhaps I'm sorely misinformed, but I thought addiction and recovery were very personal--many treatments, many ways of withdrawing. From my experience and judging from other posts, I thought it involved discussing your dependency and medical history with an addiction specialist, who would then give professional advice--accompanied by the support of a 12-step program and/or counseling. I wouldn't be so quick to criticize and discredit someone's doctor, just because they have a different opinion. I strongly encourage someone seeking help to consult with their doctor, read the posts and experiences on this and other forums, check out some books on addiction, call around to a few outpatient clinics, attend a couple of meetings--and make a decision regarding treatment that will best suit their situation. I admire J.B for consulting with a doctor, and Dan, I resent the fact that you have to post and attack the advice given. No problem if you post your personal experience--but why call someone "uninformed" when they disagree with your anecdotal experience?
I agree with the "pompous"-theme post by Anne, in a previous thread. Very eloquent and accurate. And just for the record, I am NOT the person or persons who posted other thoughts about you. Obviously there are a few of us who are offended at your uncontrolled anger and hostility, and when you start attacking people's doctors...Ugh. How sad. (and I'm not suggesting that you don't post--there are folks who seem to appreciate your thoughts. Why not just tone down your condescending attacks?)

[Frankinscense]

I will not try to defend anything in regards to my posts. I get no commissions, my friend. I can personally relate to all the suffering people feel in regards to opiates and withdrawals. Do you know the facts about the medical profession and the majority of so called addiction experts that think addiction can be cured with a SSRI. There is no cure for addiction to opiate type drugs.
A large majority of the public and medical profession no nothing in regards to the healing and stabilising properties of opiate agonist therapies. To the average person methadone is a drug given to low life junkies to detox and that's it. I assume you know about HARM reduction and how this way of thinking helps the general public. By the way jess this forum allows ALL addicts to express their views. This board allows support from caring indidviduals like JB,Brighty,Tom and many others. JB, I know that you would not have suggested something to your doctor if you did not think it would help. IMO< Correct me IF i am wrong JB(and I aplogise if I am) you were inquiring if methadone might be more effective for your condition than say LORCET(650mg acetaminophen/5 or 10 mg hydrocodone). IMO  oxycontin is an archaic formulation of oxycodone that causes more suffering from withdrawals than it does to relieve pain.
                                                                  People with chronic pain deserve a formulation of a drug that handles pain and does not effect negatively the delicate balance of our neurohormones/transmitters. A person with chronic pain and liver disorders deserves pain relief without  disturbing the livers functions. Methadone is given on a frequent basis to individuals with advanced hep C and liver disease. Tylenol containing meds and I think JB agrees with me, should not be given to people with liver problems. And I think this may have been one of the questions JB was presenting to his doctor. His doctors response fits the most common response by uninformed or paranoid physicians. I think a lot of the time the physician should listen more to the needs of the patient.  The doctor becomes paranoid and phobic due to regs the DEA and FDA place on him. These regulations cause the family doctor to not consider methadone as as a treatment for complicated pain relief. Well I hope JB is not offended by me using his example to make my point.
There is so much more that I could write about the myths doctors and the public subscribe to where MMT/LAAM is discussed. For now I will stop.
Dan..

[Jess]

Actually, I'm a pharmacist, back in school now for my PharmD. So thanks for the lecture, but I know all about chronic pain meds, dosages, the effects of acetaminophen, etc. And yes, actually, by the licensing and education required in my chosen vocation--I know quite a bit about the medical profession and prescribing trends re: SSRIs. And as I continue to pursue my career to the doctoral level, I'm learning even more. Thank you, though, for delivering your post in your usual condescending and somewhat hostile manner, and jumping to the conclusion that I was a fool in need of a little education.
I was trying to make a point about assumptions. Why assume that someone's doctor subscribes to the methadone-junkie myth? Why assume that someone's professional opinion is "uninformed" or "paranoid"? Why assume that I am in need of a lesson about opiates and treatment therapies--something I learned many years ago in school, from much less hostile pundits (thank goodness).
Yes, this forum allows all addicts to express their opinions. I'm fairly new to this forum, but I've enjoyed reading about everyone's experiences. However, the hostile lectures and hasty assumptions I can do without. I would ignore it--as I've ignored some of the other posts that I don't truly understand. But since this has a lot to do with my profession, and since I interact with many physicians, I feel it is unfair to make a blanket statement and lump together everyone who disagrees with your method of addiction treatment. Doctors debate the merits of various antibiotics everyday--treatment algorithyms for chronic asthma--the health risks of oral contraceptives, etc. These debates have been on-going and present in medical, peer-reviewed journals for years (along with debates about addiction therapy, including the pros and cons of the harm reduction model, as I'm sure you already know). The point being: why automatically label someone who disagrees or deviates from your opinion as paranoid or uninformed? I certainly agree those sort of MDs exist. Living in such a litigious society, paranoia becomes a defense that is only to be expected. But that doesn't mean that everyone fits that mold.
Okay, enough. I'm sorry for rambling and disagreeing with your shortsighted assumptions. I guess I just felt the need to defend the medical profession. We're not all bad guys living in fear of the DEA and methadone-junkie(by the way, I don't adhere to the methadone-junkie stereotype).
Also, just to let you know, I was an active addict PRIOR to finishing pharm school and entering my profession. Just wanted to add that before I got the lecture about narcotics and the medical profession. I've seen that already in your other equally condescending and angry posts.

[there dan!!!!]

lay off the posts dan.... the wanna be doctor man.ever think maybe your advice at work is really hurting people long term instead of helping them.shove your mmt/laam up your ass your a loser.oh yea dan another thing oxycotin time release is, for your information a med that will keep oxycotin in your system q12 hrs till your next dose this in turn keeps one from withdrawl. do some more homework you dipshit!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Who? What are you? I was going to post a question to Jess and Dan but now I can't remember what it was.  What's up with you and all your anger here.  I'd like to know!

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

No More.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I did some checking in my area about pain management clinics and could find nothing suitable.  One I called sounded pretty flakey.  They were talking about physical therapy and injections into hot spots, etc. Another one used chiropratic methods!

My question is:  Is there some site devoted to finding a reputable PM clinic in a given area.  Thanks in advance for any help on this!

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Hi
I wanted to let you know that there is a website that helps chronic pain patients find suitable pain management clinics that do agree there is no need for people to suffer needlessly when there are tons of different medications out there for you as long as you have a legitimate problem which I know you do ( I have read almost every post on here and have read yours as well)
try this web site for help and support. They have reps in each state that will help you find a pain clinic and/or a doctor that helps pain patients instead of condeming them.
Good luck and God bless you!

http://www.widomaker.com/~skipb/skiphome.htm

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks so much!  I think it is good reading for anyone in need of adequate pain control.  To the others in my predicament, please check the site out that Sandy suggested.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

Hi J.B
I am glad the link got you to the site because I thought I messed up and sent the wrong web address.
I belong to ASAP but I guess I am a hypocrite because although I am a chronic pain sufferer (lower back pain, disks out, so on and so on) I have tried not to take narcotics for the past three years. I did not have an addiction problem because when my doctor retired I had no choice but to stop pain medicine and suffer because the doctor that took his place basically told me I was a drug addict for taking hydrocodone for 3 years and cut me off cold. I guess I was lucky because other then being totally humiliated, nothing happened to me as far as withdrawls other then a day or two of restless sleep. I guess that is withdrawl but nothing bad like I have heard people go through from reading these posts. Anyhow, I am tired of pain but am skeptical about starting on pain meds again because I must admit I did get spooked reading about addiction. I know there is a difference between addiction and dependence but I also dont want to feel humiliated if I ran across another uncaring doctor. Like I said, I did get some names of doctors that are local to me (Charlotte NC area) but I havent pursued it yet. I also have read posts from that site and yes, it is a very good place to look into for help for people like us. Keep me posted as to what happens with you. Good luck and God bless!
Sandy

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

This is just in case I did put the wrong web address down.
I tried to go there just from what I sent you and it took me to a totally different web site. Oh well, here is a yet a different address to the same site.
Its obvious that you must have gotten to it but this is a back up. Keep in touch!
Sandy

http://www.widomaker.com/~skipb/PlacementReps.html

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yeah, I did get it figured out.  Actually, someone gave me the address a while back but I never looked into it at that time.  But I remembered it because of the word widowmaker in the address.  Anyway, I'm going to talk to my doctor again about PM clinics and see if he can come up with something workable.  I'm done playing doctor with myself and am going to stay with a professional that I trust is doing everything in my best interests.  Hope you are doing well and God be with you!

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I am not looking for sympathy Phil! I just need a little support! Your "tough love" approach is really lame. You don't help someone by beating them down! I understand that I have posted the same question many times. I am not perfect! As far as the "did you know he is unemployed" comment is concerned, what the **** is that suppose to mean? Am I a loser because I got injured at work? You know what......**** YOU!!! And please don't give me the truth hurts ****......I admit that I have failed many times! Guess I just wasn't serious about quitting! I think that this bord has gone to ****! I don't think I'll be back anymore! Thanks guys, good luck to all of you.....CHAD

[joedice]

good bye to chad

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I bet he'll be back someday.  Somebody just hit a sore spot with him and now he's all pissed off.  When the pity party is over, maybe Chad will get busy and do something constructive.  Anyway, I hope he does.  The anger he is showing here just might be a good sign!

[to chad]

none of these lame -------- ever had a problem :) screw them man. you keep on coming back bro! some here at this board will say they are not using then two post later, tell how to get more high from what the poster says he / she has for dope. or will reply how not to get cought up at the drug store using multible doctors. lame  lame  lame. we are all in this together, yet so far away, and all alone, however with a burden already on "us" maybe help is why we are all here. in whatever form it comes; everybody please be careful and joyful that your not looking at life from someplace less nice than where you are at now and think about it. are you warm ? is your electric turned on? got food in the fridge? computer working ok ? i think you can get the whole great big picture we are an elite group here no matter what got us here, here is where we are- ahead is where we are going -back there is where we been!!!!! hope this has helped it helped me with me thanks to EVERYBODY for being here & yes i ll keep posting  thanks

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

UNBELIEVALBE.

[Charlie to C]

I hope you will continue to use this forum for support.  I've been right where you are,and it's not easy.  You seem to be reaching out for help, but it sounds like there's one problem; you know you want to get off the oxy, but you are not ready yet.
When I say ready, I mean mentally.  If I were still using and had more prescriptions waiting to be filled, I would still be using.  I couldn't quit until my prescriptions had run out and I decided not to visit the doc again.  Some people have to really hit bottom before they can quit, and you may be one of these people.  Take it from someone who has been to the bottom, it's a long, long way to start climbing upwards; but it can be done.  Chad, don't take these previous posts personally.  Many of these people mean well but don't have much patience for those who don't want to do what it takes to kick it.  I hope you can decide to get help and go forward with some form of recovery.  Best of luck to you.
Charlie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

First of all I want to tell you that I liked your post.  It shows a alot of compassion and encouragement towards Chad.  About not having any patience, however, it gets to the point of frustration when someone says "I'm not really trying" in so many words.  What if Chad was your own son or daughter?  Sure many of us would be a little bit impatient after a while with this attitude.  Yes, we want the best for Chad but it's not easy to just sit around and wait for someone we care about to hit the bottom as we have.  But like they say, misery likes company!

[vickyvortex to chad and about A.A. and J]

I know I am going to hear about this but, I'm game:  Here is my confusion:  Chad, obviously you are not ready to quit. O.k. So what? Neither am I.  So, why don't you try first to manage your intake instead of climbing the big mountain of quitting. By limiting how many you take, you will have the sense of some accomplishment of control, without the anxiety of having to go without.  I know I am going to get ripped for this, but I feel that those of us who have been doing it for a lot longer than Chad forget the actual fun it is at first.  I know he is scared, but right now I think the thought of not having them at all is too much.  So if you can, Chad, try thinking about just doing a few a day.  That way, you will not have to go through withdrawals as long, and your body will get used to it, I swear.  Not being ready is simply that.  Not ready.  It is not a failure.  Don't make excuses.  Just make small victories.Eventually, you will be ready to talk to your doctor.  even that may not do it.  My doc knows I was in rehab for addiction to them, and still sees me every month! One day at a time, Easy does it is the way. Speaking of A.A, first of all, maybe the A.A. in Indiana is not like the ones you all go to.  I was asked not to mention drugs at every A.A meeting I went to by the "old timers." Most of them are great and I met some good people.  However, they only want to discuss alcohol and they don't even like the term "cross-addicted. I was never an alcoholic, but in Fort Wayne, Narcotics Anon is a joke, everyone is geeking.  Also, at the A.A. meetings I went to, you could not be under the influence of anything and participate.  This means even one vicodin.  J.B.,you're from the Indy area, if I may be so bold,  how do you go to A.A. and still take your pills?  Do they know about this?  Because I went to Cocaine anonymous and was congratulated for being clean for six years until I said the vicodin was helping my neck.  They took away my ******* token!!!!  Anyway, I am not being sarcastic about the attitude of A.A, buy I don't see how you can recommend A.A. for a drug addiction problem, least of all an active addiction. that's how it was when I lived in Fort
Wayne.  I don't know about other areas.  Please don't be too hard on me about Chad.  Its just that the tough love is not going to work.  Why not let him take his pills, even if its just for some escape?  If he wants to come on this board and whine about his withdrawals that is his fault for downing them all in two days, and he really is no different from the rest of us who abuse them even IF WE HAVE REAL PAIN!!!!

[Charlie to C]

You're right, it's hard to see someone have to "hit bottom" before they can decide to kick it.  However, that's just the way I use.  I wait until I'm either facing some serious consequences or some other major BS going down.  It's not the best way to decide to start some kind of program, but it's the only way some of us can get the message.  I agree with you about the frustration involved with someone who time and time again says he wants to quit, but he/she will not take any steps toward recovery.  I, also, get frustrated with some who post and do the same things over and over again with the same results(I think it's called insanity).  I just don't want to see someone get blasted to the point that they take offense and quit posting.  I hope you're doing well - I don't know what you're going through health-wise, but I wish you the very best.  I had someone very close to me go through something similar to what you mentioned 5
years ago.  Live for today!!!!!
Charlie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've said time and again that you need to find a group that you are comfortable with and can be honest with.  Honesty is key in recovery.  The group I hang out with are mostly Viet Nam Vets so naturally we are pretty understanding of one another.  My sponsor takes meds as prescibed by his doctor and so do I.  If I walked into a meeting stoned or nod out, that would be a different matter.  Some of the guys will mention marijuana once in a while but we tend to frown on that.  Legitimate prescription meds get discussed at times but usually it's when there is a problem like the one I mentioned above.  All we want to do is helf eachother make it through life one way or another the way we did it in the old days.  BTW, I live about one hour south of Fort Wayne out in the boonies.

[VickyVortex to J.B.]

We probably know eachother.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Maybe so!  And I hope so.  If not maybe we could talk sometime.  I just don't know how because I want to remain anonymous, if you know what I mean.  Maybe someday, somehow we will find eachother and....be friends!  Easy does it, my friend, and go with God.

P.S. I would have never taken your token away, you earned it the hard way like most of us.  Would they take my Bronze Star away if they found out I was really a coward?  Just scared like the rest and best of us!

[Vicky V to J.B.]

You have touched my heart!  Thanks for the beautiful reply. I am proud of your Star. I understand the anonymous thing.  Just knowing there is someone like you nearby is great.  Again, thanks for being such a sweetheart.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

And a big Thank You as well!  Sometimes we forget that it's nice to be nice.  Now what I mean?  I just had a beautiful day here in warm and sunny downtown Indiana, brrrrrr!  Your post made my day!  Take care and be good.  J.B.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

You know that I am ready to give both of you a group hug!  Mine would be from far away though.  I am in Florida!!!! You both sound like such nice people.  Have a great weekend. And Vicky V. (no anger management class for you HAHA).

Take Care,
Marcie.

P.S. Vicky please dont get mad at me for this but when I read the part about them taking away your #$%^#@( TOKEN I grabbed my stomach laughing.  I mean here you are with such good intentions at this meeting and some fool snatches away something that was hard earned.  Vicky, I would have hired a lawyer on that one.  I mean were you waiting for Alan Funt to come out and tell you that you were on CANDID CAMERA?  I mean did your mouth drop to the floor? How insane.  And J.B. What food for thought on your reply about the Bronze Star that would have been some Food For Thought for those fools who did that to you Vicky!  

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Hey, I read your post about donating money to save this site.  I haven't gotten a letter yet.  Anyway, I would gladly send a donation.  All of the people who use this forum should consider doing something to help save this site. Good things have a way of disappearing when we neglect them, right?

Hope you will finally get some much needed rest, Marcie.  It's not easy to live life on "auto-pilot" especially when flying through the mountains, he,he!  Pleasant dreams!

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Morning JB (Yawn)
I got that "email" that I spoke of from MEDHELP. It was sent to me on December 8, 2000. Their email address is www.medhelp.org  
"Cindy" and "Phil" are the founders of Med Help International.  They are over the "Ask the Doctor" forums.  They said in the email that it costs them as much as $25 for questions that are answered in these forums.  They go on to say that "Within the past 6 years Med Help International (a non-profit organization by the way) has become one of the worlds largest sources for consumer health information.  Their site receives more than 5 million hits per month. They go on "Right now we need a little help from friends in order to continue our services (and hopefull expand them).  Med help does not receive ANY government funding or foundation grants... we rely on donations from people like you." THEN THEY SAY "We want to always be here for you! If you are in a position to make even a small donation we sure can use your support.  All contributions are tax deductible and may be mailed to :

Med Help International
3830 South Highway A1A
Suite C3, PMB #17
Melbourne Beach, Florida 32951

Anyway I just dread the thought of trying to get to this site one day only to find out that it is gone!  That is why I am concerned about the future of this site.

Have a great day. I am going to try and nap.  My husband looks like he has been to hell and back. And I guess in a way he HAS!

Have a great one!
Marcie.

[to BJF from Oxy Tom]

Hi Chad
I hope you really didn't leave this forum and are still reading....  In case you are, here's a note from someone who was where you are today a few years ago.

The people who are writing to you here, regardless of their approach, all seem to care about you,  Whether their advice is harshly spoken or not, they all are making the same point.  You need to get this under control before it takes you further down.  The bottom can be pretty low with this disease - lower than I ever imagined it could be.  And though I don't know you, I do hope for you that you never see as far down as I have.  The best way to prevent this is to take care of things now, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be.

Vicky has decent advice.  Controlling/limiting your use will give you the satisfaction of at least a small victory.   If that works for you, that would be GREAT!!!  That didn't work for me because I couldn't control myself.  But maybe you're stronger? I don't know and you don't either til you try it.  

I can definately relate to NOT telling your doc.  If you do that, it kind of limits your options.  Is that what you need?  I don't know that either.  

What I DO know is this - the disease of addiction for me was progressive....as in it progressively got worse.  And if you are like most of us who are addicted, the same will happen to you.

It hit what I though was bottom this summer for me.  I was getting a scrip for 8x80mg per day, but that wasnt enough!!  I was writing my own prescriptions too - 70-100 every 3 or 4 days, PLUS the ones I got legally!  I needed 5-10 (x80mg) at a time just to keep from going into withdrawal.  My skin was breaking out from all the poison in my system, I spent my savings (or rather, my FAMILY's savings), was either sweating of puking or both all the time....til FINALLY I admitted to myself I needed help.  

I called my Doc and confessed.  On his advice, I went to a detox center.  To this day I cannot understand the logic of my Doc, but he really let me down and turned me in.   I was arrested in the Detox Center.  My wife had to bail me out, and she took me right back to Detox where I spent twice the normal amount of time and still didn;t feel better.

When I got out, I not only had pain, withdrawal, a family that I let down, etc... - I also had BIG legal problems.  (I still do.)

After all this, you would think I FINALLY have it under control??  That was my "bottom"?  Nope.  It still has me.  Just went through a month's scrip in a week.....again.   Im talking about well over 100 of the 160mg size.  In a week.  

I'd give ANYTHING to be where you are today...ANYTHING!!!  Not that it's any easier to kick a smaller habit...I'm not saying that...I'm sure the pain/withdrawal/etc. is just as real to you as it would be to me....but to be able to even go a day without taking any would be nothing short of a miracle for me.

Chad - now is the time to take whatever action you need to, to get this under control.  You HAVE to, or you could lose your life to this thing!  The longer you give in to it, the harder it will become.  And you run the risk of escalating the problem to the point where you could end up with a HUGE tolerance, legal problems, or worse.

Again - I was where you are just 3-4 years ago.  Not saying you will end up like me now, but why chance it?  It really could happen.

Don't let yourself see how far down you have to go before taking action.  I know there's a better life than this, and you are much closer to it than I.   Run for it, man!

[tom to oxy Tom]

you're saying that you came clean with the doctor that got you hooked in the first place, including telling him you were forging scripts, and the ******* dropped a dime on you, knowing you were at detox earnestly trying to deal with a problem he helped you create? Is that what you're saying?
Pardon my french, but your doctor is a ******* rat-******* piece of **** who deserves to have the DEA up his ass til the end of time. I really feel for you, man. May God damn that quack to hell!
I've done time for rx forgery twice, but I never had a doctor turn on me like that. Nor did I ever turn snitch for the cops to entrap a physician they had already decided to bring down.
You must be feeling about as low as a man can feel right now. That doc should have got you to the detox and been done with it. I wonder if this guy has even a clue what you're in for now with the law down on you, as if you didn't have enough to deal with fighting an oxycodone addiction.
If you haven't already, you need to take the hand of a fellow addict and unburden yourself. AA, NA wherever you go, seek out a meeting of recovering addicts, stand up and tell them what you're facing. You're getting it from all sides, my friend, and right now you need a hand on your shoulder and someone saying the serenity prayer with you. I don't know what town you're in, but we're all over the map, meeting everywhere and anywhere.

If I could reach out through this screen and take your hand I would do it, brother. May god give you strength. Find a meeting. Tell someone about all this.

With all you're looking at, God bless you for selflessly helping Chad.

Stay in contact with this site, oxy Tom. Even if all I can do is listen and offer advice, I will. Don't let them take you're humanity and your dignity. There is redemption and recovery for you waiting down the long road ahead. Your brothers in AA and NA will walk it with you, a step at a time.

If you want to contact me privately, you can reach me at:
***@****

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

The bottom you hit this summer is probably worse than any of us here could fathom.  One thing to think about is the fact that your recovery may take as long a time as your addiction.  Just because we go through detox, rehab, etc. does not mean that we are out of the woods.  I've hit bottom several times, got scared, got help, got feeling somewhat normal again and then all too late found that it still had me in it's grip!  

I finally came to the conclusion that I was far beyond human help and started to become somewhat spiritual.  Yes, I pray!  And so far it has been keeping me centered and focused on recovery.  My life has actually gotten worse over the last two years but I've been able to hold what little I have left together. I'm talking to you as a fellow survivor of addiction and not as a preacher who knows not of our battle.  

Peace be with you, brother!

[Charlie to C]

How are things going?  I've just returned from a 4 day hunting trip and my mind is where it needs to be.  It does me wonders to get out in the  woods and let my mind relax and appreciate the simple things in this crazy world.  I hope you had a good week-end.  God Bless.
Charlie

[Charlie to C]

I haven't heard from you in a while.  How are things going on the west coast?  I have a close friend who lives in the Redondo
Beach area, and he absolutely loves it there.  Are you still trying to get into a meth program?  I think the last time I heard from you, you were checking that out.  Whatever, I hope you are doing O.K.  By the Grace of God, I have been clean for about 75 days now.  I'm trying to be careful;  I've become somewhat bored with life and I know what a strong warning signal that is.  I think I'll go to a meeting this afternoon.  I've got 1 more week in my 10 week out-patient program, so, I know I need to start using other support areas to maintain sobriety.  Good luck to you..
Charlie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm so glad you had a good hunt!  A person learns so much in the wild.  It's like...where we belong.  I miss Colorado and the mountains and the wonder of it all!  Life was good then.

Some days I find myself looking west towards what used to be the mountains and ask why did I end up here.  But I suppose that there is a reason for everything in life.  God,I hope so!  I'm not in prison physically, but because of my life of addiction I am imprisoned in a withering body. I'm glad you had a good hunt!

[BJF: reply to all us addicts..........]

HI fellow junkies,
I found this site 'cause I got my self into yet another addiction.........Vicodin and Oxys. Always liked the feeling when I doubled up my dose after knee surg.Then **** all the pills are gone and the pain was still there. But I had back problems, so I did a Oscar winning performanve with another doc and presto, more pills, and later fentynal patches. I ate the goo in the patches and Wow that was interesting... The doc prescribed 10mg oxys 60 a month,gone in a week. I really was just curious as to how long I would feel funky and if there was something that would make the funk go away sooner,then I stumbled onto this site.Got the info I needed and feel ok, for now. I have been through treatment 10yrs ago and thought I was doing preety well,untill the pills.No smell like drinking,no big production to use like coke,no one knew, or noticed,I thought.
The end is just like any mood altering substance that I have ever used...DEPRESSION<LETHARGY,SELF-PITY,THE NEED TO STOP!!!
MY past tells me( I'm 45) that the only way to stop this madness is to get totally honest. With myself,MY doctor,and with agroup of people who understand,that group being for me a good
AA progrm and a good sponsor. It worked for me in the past and I know it will work again if I get HONEST.
  This addiction bullshit is so totally ****** up!!!
  I just looked in the mirror 3 days ago and called myself the truth I am a JUNKIE,I may not shoot up, but I'll do what it takes to get high. I'll lie,cheat,steal, and I'll do all those things to my family and friends.
The end of this bullshit has 3 outcomes,jails,insttutions,or death. I have experienced 2 of the 3. I have a family I adore,
A wonderful wife,still have most of my health.Really for me
there is'nt enough fuckin' pills worth trading all that away for.
Thank-you all for sharing your experiences. I needed to see
that I was'nt alone in this funk.As I pray for my self to be free,I will pray for your freedom too! Thank-you and GOD Bless you!!!!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Thanks for being honest! That's always the first step. I have no idea if I will ever want to give up the Klonopin and Ultram. Even though it is for a legitimate seizure disorder I still like the effect I get.

I used to drink really heavy for years until the DT's and seizures kept kicking my ass. I gave that up. I am six months sober and with the other treatment I don't even crave alcohol. I can't even stand the thought of it anymore. But I am still an addict. Take away the 8 mg's of Klonopin and I'd be DEAD DUCK or back to seizure and DT's land. It's frustrating.

Now I can't even make up my mind what kind of career I want. I have been in one career for 18 years and now suddenly want a change. I don'y know if it is the depression I have been going through or mid life crisis or what? It's time for me to get back to the jungle and meditate. I have not been there since my surgery seven weeks ago. Keep coming back as they say at A.A.

[to BJF from Oxy Tom]

Thanks for writing and your encouragement.  If you don;t mind, Im curious about the penalties you said you paid - particluarly jail.  Im about to be sentenced and wondered how bad it had to be to get jail time.  Im hoping and praying for probation - I canot imagine life without my family.  Hope you have something to say that eases my mind...  Thanks again for writing and your honest comments.  Good luck to you.  (By the way - just one scrip for Oxies isnt going to be too bad to get away from - I think you 'caught' it in time this time around...DONT DO MORE!!b)

[Glen]

Sorry, But I don't know where to get advice.

I have chronic lower back pain that is inoperatable
due to degenenerative disc disease.

I currently take 16 5mg methadone pills a day (80mg a day).

They do not have Oxycotin in the country where I live.

Is there a pharmacology person who could tell me if it would be worthwhile trying to get my pain management specialist to try to get some in, or am I better off on methadone as I'm still in a fair bit of pain which affect my quality of life, relationship with wife and family,job,etc. My pain Dr. is an anesthesiologist in New Zealand and has never heard of oxycotin as had I till I read about it in Time magazine. It's for cronic pain but all they talked about was the abuse side. I'm interested in it for over 35 years of chronic pain. Any knowlegable replys appreciated. Thanks

[Glen]

Sorry, But I don't know where to get advice.

I have chronic lower back pain that is inoperatable
due to degenenerative disc disease.

I currently take 16 5mg methadone pills a day (80mg a day).

They do not have Oxycotin in the country where I live.

Is there a pharmacology person who could tell me if it would be worthwhile trying to get my pain management specialist to try to get some in, or am I better off on methadone as I'm still in a fair bit of pain which affect my quality of life, relationship with wife and family,job,etc. My pain Dr. is an anesthesiologist in New Zealand and has never heard of oxycotin as had I till I read about it in Time magazine. It's for cronic pain but all they talked about was the abuse side. I'm interested in it for over 35 years of chronic pain. Any knowlegable replys appreciated. Thanks

Okay regected, where would I try.....