"PLEASE HELP WITH DAUGHTER!"

[kimbie]

Hi! I have posted in the past under "help with daughter on Suboxone" briefly, daughter on heroin for about 3 years (injecting) just about anything from pills to cocaine. Got her on suboxone. She keeps saying.. I want the help I am going to DO IT this time. I know it is not easy. I believe she wants to be clean but doesn't want to do the work! I believe she is selling the Suboxone to get her heroin! I know there is "NOTHING" I can do or say till she is ready to get clean. She keeps saying I am not on anything but her behavoir tells a different story. I know "ALL" about enabeling! She know's I will not tolerate ANY drugs! My question is... I have a quest bathroom & I was looking under the sink cupboard for a bandaid & there was a box with LARGE bandaids & I opened it & found.. 4 needles & 22 empty little baggies. I just broke down & cried!!!!!!!! A couple of the baggies still had a little stuff in them. From the past I KNOW what the heroin looks like & it did not look like it. I am NO expert but it was off white color with brown specs in it! Is there a place I can go legally that someone can tell me what it is??? I know it should not matter but I don't think it is the heroin. I have been through "ALL" the ups & downs with her. I KNOW when I confront her she is going to make every excuse in the world about it & I am just at my witts end!! I have done "EVERYTHING" from rehabs, patience, love, understanding, anger, frustration etc., etc. etc. She has NO where to go & has no car! I know she will die on the streets! There is alot of history with this story because I almost lost her a few times! She has been out of the house a few times & each time she comes back she say's she will do whatever it takes!! I am tough but soft at the same time! I am alone in this!! I love my daughter more then anything in this world! I have done my homework on addiction & try & do every step to be here but not enable!! I want to tell her to leave the house "AGAIN" she know's she can NOT live at home & use drugs!! She refuses to say she needs serious help! I have told her I will "ALWAYS" be here when she is ready to be clean. She comes back & AGAIN manipulates me, the situation etc. I have NO more money to put her in rehab!! And she has said she doesn't need it. I know she is still using! My mental, emotional, & physical health is breaking down! I have to stay healthy!! I am not looking for sympathy but I just battled breast cancer last year & lost both breasts. 11 months ago. I just can't take it no more! I know I need to let her go!! It is a lose - lose situation! I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE!!!

[lifeline255]

my son is nineteen, he was using heroin at 17 yrs now at nineteen after court ordered rehab  in the juvenile system ( much cheaper and just as effective)  he continues to have an addiction disorder (life long) and he now drinks alcohol and smokes pot. He said he just traded drugs, but I know relatively speaking he was not using heroin that long, although he mixed it with cocaine at times. He was perscribed naltrexone and took that for  one year. (50mg daily) I am now very  concerned about his alchohol consumption, he is close to losing his job, does not have his GED. I know I have to shake things up here. I  know all the things to do, it's just figuring out how  if their is any way to  motivate my son to care about his own recovery, "rock bottom" is a long way off for him I'm affraid.

[notmenow!]

they are very creative , once the veins in the arms collapse they will use any other one they can find. The legs, the feet, the neck, anywhere on the body. I have even heard males injecting into the genitalia area, Is she on 32mgs of sub ?

[Joanne19792001]

with regards to your last question you can inject just about anywhere on your body. Most people start with their arms and backs of hands then when the veins have been damaged and they get hard to find alot of people use their legs or feet. Another place people use in there groin there is a really big vein there, i think its called femoral vein. I used to go in my groin and ended up with dvt and septicemia from injecting in it. I'm sorry i don't want to worry you more just want you to be aware. There is an artery right near the vein in your groin and if you hit that then you definitely know about it or even if you hit an artery anywhere. In the clinic i go to in UK they have lots of posters about safer injecting. I know some people might think that its not right having posters advising you on how to inject more safely in a drugs clinic but its just that they know people are going to do it anyway sometimes so its better to be informed about it than not have a clue and end up with an abcess. The clinic where i go is also a needle exchange so that people can exchange old needles for clean ones and in the drugs place down the road they have a model of an arm with veins in with stuff in them that looks like blood and they teach people how to inject more safely. Their view is that people are going to do it even if they don't have a clue how to they'll try so they may as well be informed about how to do. I didn't know about hitting arterys when i first started injecting so i agree that its a good idea. They also get alot of people in there that use steroids and explain about using them. When you go in they do tell you of all the dangers etc. If you are not on a programme they will try to get you into one. They do alternative treatmeny such as something called black box therapy and accupunture and they also run meetings and provide somewhere for homeless people to have a warm drink, do day trips, take on volunteers and help peaple find goverment funded rehab so they are not just there  to tell you how to inject.

[kimbie]

Oh! I forgot something.. She used to have track marks on her arms are there other places on your body that you can inject? thanks again!

[kimbie]

I would like to say.. How "greatful" I am for each & everyone of you!! This is not something you can just talk to anyone about. As I read everyone's story & how you struggle each day to know you "DESERVE" a life!! I am so, so proud of each & everyone who battles any of these diseases! It really, really gives me hope to not loose focus! Her & I sat down last night "AGAIN" but this time to fight for her to try & make her see she is killing herself just to live, killing herself to exist! She has seen what this has done to me but not at the extent that I told her I just wanted her to listen to me!! I try & encourage her, I will be there every step of the way but "I" can't do this anymore!!!!!!!!! The lies, the deciet, all of it!! I told her I want MY life back!! And how she needs to fight for her's back! She is not as bad as she used to be & to be realistic that she may relapse but to keep fighting it!! I can't make her & she know's this! She either wants it & willing to do "WHATEVER" it takes or she has to leave & know I will not help her anymore at all till she is ready to be clean!! I have always tried to be strong for her & the only thing that keeps me sane is knowing I want HER to make it. It is NOT my choice it is her's!! She know's this is the VERY LAST TIME!!! I told her to write down what she wants, what she wants to do & what she needs to change her life for HER!! I will NOT live this life with her being an addict!! She is my HEART & I love her more then anything in this world but I can not stand by & watch her kill herself!! She HAS to do the work not me! I will be here to help her!! I try not to make it about myself but last night I broke & cried & cried!! She KNOWS this is her LAST chance! So, I will keep all of you informed on the progress! Thank you all again so, so much & the drugs have ruined your past & your strieving to not let it ruin your future! I DO NOT judge anyone & so, so happy none of you judge either it is so comforting!! Love, Kim

[notmenow!]

How much suboxone is she on. She should be on the max 32mg. and for how long has she been using it. If she is using its just a matter of time before she gets a dirty urine, If she isn't on 32mg.I would go with her to her dr and get her dose raised to the max. She should take 16mg as soon as she wakes up and the other 16mg 6hrs later. Did you realize that she is taking only 2mg of naloxone in each 8mg pill of which only 2% gets into her system. I would ask the doctor if he could give her 50mg of naloxone pills and you keep the medication. You dissolve 1 tablet in orange juice and have her drink it each morning while you watch. Also buy some urine test on line tell her you are going to test her at home randomly she can stay as long as she comes up clean. Test dirty and I will have you locked up under the baker act for 72 hrs , while you petition the court to have her commited as a danger to you and herself. My heart goes out to her because she is suffering from a Opiate addiction which is a chronic treatable disease of the brain. Just like your disease your in remission from CA, All the clean addicts on this forum are in remission as well, we could have a relapse at anytime, I know of addicts that were in remission for 15 years and relapsed. My Mother was diagnosed with cancer beat the disease went into remission for 4 years only to lose the battle when the cancer returned and this time it took her life, We dont know what God has in store for use we can only try each day to do our best. I still think your daughter can be saved with the proper dose of suboxone twice a day with the additional naloxone of 50mg dissolved in orange juice. you watch her drink it and no bathroom for 20 minutes so she wont throw it up, I dont think she could be on the max dose of 32mgs per day, the at home urine test you'll  give her this should wake her up if fact you should have control of her suboxone so she cant sell them, or the dr could prescribe a weeks worth with 3 refills on it if hes giving her a months supply, If none of the above work then the only thing that will save her life is getting her commited or her going to prison for at least 2 years does she have a record, For now I would hold the drugs you found watch the used needles as she has Hep-c you dont want to get a stick, Is she current with her HIV test, are the whites of her eyes white or yellow? This is a sign if her liver is being effected, Is she on SSI and Medicaid and food stampd If not why not?  It may not be to late to save her and get her disease of the brain into remission as you are, Praise God. If I can offer you some more support do not hesitate to contact me I'm here for you----NOAH

[snowtard]

i live i california and went through something like this with one of my very close friends, what we ended up doing was taking him to a outpatient methadone clinic, it costs him $243 every 3 months and they give him what he needs to survive daily, it is a blind out paitent clinic,meaning they do not tell him the dose they are giving him daily, he has to get up every morning and go to the clinic wait in line for an hour just to get his daily dose, kinda puts things into perspective for him waiting there with all the other addicts, he gets to see first hand how people are, they gradually lower the daily dose till he taking sugar water for the most part and he doesnt know. blind detox may work for her, but she has to want to make it work, if she has no intentions of getting clean, nothing in this world will make her. look into a methadone program, i kow its a lot cheaper the sub and they provide counsling as well.
i know this prolly dont help now, but its food for thought

snowtard

[DesperateMom2001]

This sounds almost like what I'm going through with my 25 yr. old son. I'm trying to make him realize he needs his family-not drugs. He says he's clean, but we're having a hard time believing it. He hasn't paid rent, so his gas has been shut off in his apartment(gas heat included in rent), so he's cold now. I feel so bad for him, but don't want to say 'come home'. I want him to go to a recovery place, but he says no. It hurts so bad to see your adult son cold & hurting.

My heart goes out to you Kimbie & my prayers are with you & your daughter.
Lots of hugs to you))))))

[allaboutmary]

I just want to give you a big hug !   My mom went through this with my brother.  She went to Ala-non and said it helped her so much. At least someone there could give you a hug, in person. Take care of yourself , you are in my thoughts.   Mary

[Joanne19792001]

i'm so sorry you are still going through this, reading your post makes me realise even more just exactly what i put my mum through. It does sound like Heroin to me. I can't think what else it might be.In UK addicts use citric acid to break down the heroin in order to inject it but that look like sugar cystals so i would think it was Heroin and i don't know it that is the normal thing used where you live. Heroin comes in different shades of brown some of powder can be quite dark and some quite light like like an off white colour. I hope things get better for you soon. I know it must be hard for you and us all saying to you that she won't come off it untill she's ready i know must be hard and i think if i was in your position i wouldn't be willing or able to just wait even though i know as i'm an addict myself that it wont happen till she's ready.
I hope so much that things get better soon.
Joanne

[hillary5]

you are so welcome ... i know you could go on and on about it but it doesn't solve the problem, we both know that .... i wish there was something that i could do ... what about contacting the intervention show?  don't they cover the cost of the rehab?  just tryin to help you grab at straws here ... has she ever told you why she does drugs? i know that sounds silly and all but i know when your in rehab they try to get to the root of the problem sometimes ... i mean most do it to escape reality, they don't want to feel any type of emotion ... something traumatice happened as a young child, so they use to forget that pain .. you know what i mean?  i used because i didn't know how to cope .. never learned any coping skills .. didn't have to .. my parents hid everything from us and as i got older and was on my own, things would come up as an adult, i didn't know how to deal w/things, they never let us ... i remember them telling us they were going to get a divorce, as a young teenager i just wanted to run outta the house and go swing on the swings at the park behind our house ... i remember so clearly, my mother was like 'you're not going anywhere - go to your room and i don't want ppl knowing about this, even your friends ' .. i wz like, what?  your telling me you're getting divorced, my parents, and because i just want to go somewhere to think about whats going on and how MY life is going to change, i got in trouble .. i couldn't figure that out ... still can't ... thats about the only  memory i have that seemed to have set me into motion ... was never able to deal w/things in my own way .. they were dictating to me how to react and how to behave about a situation.  not just that one, but most of them growing up....i let my kids express how they are feeling about everything ... so, my way of dealin w/things was to start smoking cigarettes at 15, started smokin pot and tried drinking - never really into the drinking thing, dad's an alcoholic - but i did other things to rebel - stayed out all nite .. then as i got older and out of high school - i got pregnant & wz living at home still so it wz very hard for me to be a parent to my son when they still parented me ..anything i said or did w/my son they had a better or diff way of doing things ... they would try to ground me - one time they kicked me out but wouldn't let me take my baby w/me - cha! .. can't do that .. then they said if i was going to leave to never come back and they would raise him as their own and i was no longer a member of the family .. ya know? at that time the only thing i did wz smoke cigs .. .thats it .. they just wanted to have control of everything ... even my child ... i finally moved out w/my son in my own place, worked full time .. took him to day care .. started to really be alot to deal with and i resorted to drugs .. made it easier to cope w/raising him in a single parent environment ... then i started pills for hern disc for pain .. wasn't addicted then .. started doin coke - had another back surgery and became addicted to pills .... so for about 10 yrs i wz addicted to them .. i did stop here and there but always went back .. when i got pregnant w/my other 2 kids i had a script for them during my pregnancies but never took more than 2 a day ... after i had them, it was all down hill from t here ... partied alot!!!! w/coke and pills ... the coke wasn't hard for me to stop it ws the pills and that puts me here today ... i've been on suboxone .. i'm sorry .. i don't know why i'm telling you all of this .. but i guess it went back to my question - why she does drugs? this is my reason and i just couldn't stop typing ... thank god my husband has been there for me and has put up w/alot of my b.s. and lies about how i got pills and the money i spent to get them when i didn't have a script ... i'm soo glad that i was fortunate enough to get help ... i just really wish your daughter did too .. sounds like you've spent endless amount of money on trying to help her ...

i'm sure you've got on the web did alot of research on how to get her in w/no money and one that will take her because of the hep c ... has she gotten on here and read some of these posts from us and from you?  what does she think?  if you need to vent or talk, let me know ..

i will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers .... love ...traci

[FLaddict]

Heroin can look different depending on who its bought from and who has been doing the cutting prior to being sold. Also I remember back when i used IV we would buy little bags of coke that was cut to be shot could be that too.

I agree with the above she helps treatment if she is willing to go.  

[Lotsatrout]

I've also seen methamphetamine (10 years ago and haven't seen ANY since then) that was off white with specs in it.  It's really hard to tell what it might have been without it being tested.  

[kimbie]

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for the comforting words! I am tired & just worn out!! Yes, I have seen the intervention shows & it breaks my heart!! I cry EVERY time I watch!! I have NO more money to put her in an inpatient program & one that allow's someone who has hepatitis C. I am only 43 years old & have lost just about everyone in MY life because of this! I know it is the drug not her! Each time I told her rehab or on her own she has left the house only to come to me & say she will go into rehab. She goes in & gets out and then right back on! I know this time if she agrees to go into rehab when she gets out she can NOT live back home. Tried that too many times. I am trying to find a place that will except her with no money or a sliding scale fee that she will have to pay. NO luck so far!! ALL my savings is "GONE" there is no money left! I try & put it in God's hands! Does anyone know of any places in florida (Orlando area) that will take her with NO money. When I had her Marchman acted (against her will) she spent 5 day's at the "Center for drug free living" then she went into a rehab in Cocoa beach for 90 day's. She was back on drugs in no time. She was not living with me when she got out. 1 month later got an anonomous phone call saying your daughter is using "Fire Heroin" & if you don't get her help she is going to die! I Marchman acted her again & found her 2 weeks later only for her to go back to the "Center for drug free living" only for 2 day's to pass & them tell me they will NOT put her back in rehab because it did not help her! She was out & back on! Anyway, I could go on & on! I am going to confront her ONE LAST TIME but HAVE to have a rehab in place! I know nothing else has worked!

[CATUF]

Is there any chance of getting her into LONG TERM rehab?  If it were my daughter I'd check into that and then give them the option of rehab or the streets.  I would suggest that the longer she can spend in a safe Recovery place, the better.  I went in the first time for 28 days and relapsed in less than 48 hours.  After a 4.5 month run that almost killed me I went to another rehab where I stayed for exactly 4 months.  I think that's what I needed to have any real chance at Recovery.  It has still not been a cake walk, but as of today I have been 100% clean and sober for 882 days.  

I know some young women who are in Recovery from serious heroin habits.  It's not as hopeless as it must seem, but it does take time.  If that time is not spent in a safe place it is very difficult to stay clean.

CATUF

[hillary5]

i sit and read your post over and over & just want to cry ... YOU need to take care of YOU NOW! ... how much more can you really take? you've taken way more than i think i would be able to take if it was my child .. i don't know, since i haven't had to deal w/that yet .. i have an 18y.o son, i found out he smoked pot .. i was glad he told me but on the other hand pissed off ... i understand teenagers wanting to try things and peer pressure but i always thought from his dad being an alcoholic and not in his life and him seeing me go thru being addicted to pain pills - he just wouldn't go there ... i try to explain to him that pot is a gateway drug to bigger and stronger drugs ... i just don't think i could be as strong as you've been if the situation was in my house ... you have bent over backwards far too many times .. she knows you'll give in .. you said your tuff but soft at the same time .. she knows that ... they say ' you teach ppl how to treat you ' .. she knows what to say and what to do to get to that soft part of you .. that part needs to be toughened up .. i know i know, it's not easy and i wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy - but you HAVE to just let her go ... have you seen that show on A&E, Intervention?  it was on last nite while i was up - wow, very powerful stuff ... there was a guy on there who wz addicted to heroin too - he finally gave in & chose to go away and get help, he's been sober for a year now .. it CAN be done ... she has to really really want it and by her actions, she's not wanting it at all ... another suggestion,  you said she is on suboxone and you feel she's selling them, probably is .. how far is the dr's office - make her go there once a day and get her pill and take it right there ... i know it can be an inconvenience but at this point  ... i don't know, i'm just trying to see if there is any other options for her ....

you're a very brave woman who has battled w/a disease herself and won - she does not have the right to do this to you right now ... you need to get yourself better - you being stressed out and worried every minute of the day is not healthy for you ... you cannot let her do this to you anymore ... there are 2 options ... call the police or kick her out for good ... i know that has to be the hardest thing a parent can do to their child .. i have 3 kids myself and pray to god that i don't ever have to experience what you are going thru right now ... she needs to know that you are serious this time ... she is a master manipulator and she knows that she can get to you and i hate the fact that she could even do this to you .. especially what you've gone thru yourself ... how dare her do that ... but it's not her, its her addiction .. i'm really not trying to be mean at all, i'm just upset because she doesn't want to help herself, that this addiction has that much of a hold on her ... i will pray for you both and hope that she can overcome this nasty addiction that has ahold of her now and for you, that you remain healthy and not let her take anymore from you than she already  has .... it's a hard decision to make .. please keep us posted on how things go..... i applaud you for beating the cancer also ... my aunt passed away from it 15 yrs ago - she could of beat the disease, but she didn't want to see the dr about the lump ... i wish you nothing but the best ... love .. traci

[PromisedLand]

I don't know if they can put her in jail based on you finding the stuff in the guest bathroom..though I'm certainly no legal expert.  If she has a lot of friends, they can likely bail her out pretty quickly.  Detoxing in jail will not be fun, either, but I can certainly understand your wanting to put her there.  At least you'll know where she is, for now.

Call the police and see what they tell you.

Jim

[lurker]

I'm so very sorry to hear this.  It sounds like heroin to me.  She has to want to get clean and you can't make that happen.  Sending her to jail may be just what she needs.  I don't really know what else you can do.
I wish you peace to your soul.  at least in jail she won't have access to heroin and can be on suboxone.

[kimbie]

I just got off the phone with my sister she lives in another state & she is the ONLY one in my family that is there for me! My daughter has pretty much been through everything except going to JAIL! I do not want to see her go to jail but I just don't know what else to do!! Since I found these needles & empty baggies which they still have resedue in them can I call the police & explain & them come arrest her? Since the drugs are in my home. OR am I making a BIG mistake trying to put her in jail?? "NOTHING" seems to get to her!! She has an excuse for EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!! Nothing wakes her up!! She has almost died 4 times, in the hospital several times, marchman acted, inpatient, outpatient rehabs. She manipulates "every" situation & thinks she is invinsible!! Nothing shakes her! She has hepatitis C which she has done nothing about! I am to the point to where it is either put her in jail or let her die! It is that SERIOUS!! Need people's opinion about jail!!!! Thank you soooo much for being here as you always are!!

[CAliGirl888]

I'am 23 years old and had an addiction to Norco and Vicodin, basically  I put my mom through similar stff, I relapsed 3 times and finally she said your over 18 and I dont want to do this but Iam kicking you out until you get help.... She told me she had thoughts of me just using more and not giving a ****.... But a few months went by and I know I scared her to death because i didnt call or stop by... I got to the point where I had no more places to stay, I was running out of $ and I missed home cooked foods and my bed! So I went to her and said I need YOUR help..... I think if you cut her off completely she might realize what I did... But u are dealing with Heroin and Ive heard its way more addiciting... You sound like a great mom, but she needs to realize how GOOD u r to her.....Good Luck and their are great people here to help.... Your in my Prayers...