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1502361 tn?1290540230

PLEASE HELP.DEPRESSION ON METHADONE!

PLEASE HELP! Im 20yrs old,im on Methadone Therapy becasuse im was on heroin since my 14th.It's my 18th day on methadone,is it time to tapp down,since they told me i can go on to maintenance if im scared too much to go back to heroin (i used it at least 3 years IV).I am scared to go back.What shall i do?? And im depressed ,and Methadone is in same time(Should be antidepressor) but it isn't for me.What med could help me? Or what is with me?? Im depressed too much,not everyday but often.And anxious even im on strong opiate...i have prescribed 5mg of Diazepam but...it doesn't work...what shall i do?? PLS help me and put NOTICE if you are EXPERIENCED with methadone or NOT-EXPERIENCED  
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1502361 tn?1290540230
Thanks again really for every single answer. I didn't expect anyone to answer me. I felt like alone in this problem. The thing is that we have here,in Serbia , big anti-methadone lobby,not because we have some increase of overdose cases it's because most of "moms and dads" (or cooperate persons in treatment) considering that Methadone Maintenance is for life and patient looks like herb.
           Most of young populating ,tho , don't think so and we (in the name of educated young population with problem) think that doctors and methadone treatment are more efficient than some "Retro Rehab Centers" (that we have here) where patient is "cured" without any med and "with God will" .And that lobby is even stronger than treating addiction to heroin with Methadone or Buprenorphine. I'm thinking on going on to PURE Buprenorphine in January when that kind of treatment should be registred here in Serbia.When I say Buprenophine I think of pure/clean Buprenophine without short-lasting antagonist such as Naloxone or etc... I've been 2 years (with lost of relapsing) on "Nalrexone" pure opiate antagonist,but it didn't just help.Every time,in period of 3-6 months on it,i would search for an opiate effect such as heroin,Tramadol,even poppy tea that is (to be honest) more poison than opiate.Poppy tea contains 47 active alkaloids.Morphine and codeine aside , it contains substances that block "pee receptors" :) (but not funny at all,i was at ermegency center once with cateter stucked in to my penis ... it hurt so much!!! ) then substances that make your eyes look like you are eye-twisted,blocks breathing(in some cases),makes you more hater than usual,and many many other side effects.
          So anyway, the REAL problem is in my "treatment buddy" - my mom.She is too conservative.She is the one that follows me to the doctor when she needs to prescribe me Methadone for whole week,and where I can actually rise my dosage.She is the one that follows me on testing in to Methadone Center.She is the one that DONT WANT TO RISE MY DOSAGE,before we go to testing in to methadone centre (every 3 weeks) so my dosage,if i feel need,will be rised every 3 weeks! THAT IS JUST INSANE! Don't you think???
         The question is ,how to work up things with my mom(and dad) and to make them to do things like they should!!?? I mean, i don't even feel my 60drops at all (20mg) after 2 and a half weeks.That is an initial dose here,where patient/addict is starting with.
         Please , i think I will relapse with lack of understanding.Even tho local shrink rised my dosage ,my "cooperative buddy" won't do that without thinking of TEAM (team of experts that are deciding will you be in methadone program or not).HELP ME... :( :(  
Helpful - 0
185545 tn?1331074866
Hi there. Look, i wouldnt get too concerned with the inconsequential minutiae of a mg/ml debate. 20mgs is still 20mgs no matter what concentration or dilution levels of a particular formulation. As others have stated already, this is on the lower end of the typical therapeutic dosing spectrum. Im not at all suprised that you feel dissatisfied,dysphoric and depressed considering the liklihood your current 20mg(60drop) metadon dose is inadequate.

Having read all your posts, i would urge you to consult your prescribing doctor with regards to your current state of mind, physical welfare and familial dynamics concerning your mother. How we could possibly compel your mother to recognise  the merits of methadone maintenance where 15 doctors have already failed is a mystery to me. It may pay to reconcile with the all too common scenario of having family members who choose to disregard maintenance treatment as a viable option for their loved ones, in spite of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.

If you are entirely adverse to a minor adjustment to your methadone dose, for whatever reasons, maybe you could explore the possibility with your physician of split dosing. You may find your that this regimen may abate some of the uncomfortable symptoms you have experienced. At the end of the day, much of what you describe can be wholly attributed to an inadequate dosing schedule which has you treading the knife edge of full blown withdrawals and barely enough to stave off the severist WD symptoms..Methadone maintenance, administered in this manner ,is counter productive. You get the worst of of both( Active and inactive addiction) worlds and none of the benefits.

I understand the fear of getting caught in the methadone trap. My philosophy regarding methadone maintenance is more pragmatic than most and recognises the fact that many people, tired of active addiction but not prepared to commit to complete abstinence, require a 3rd option to fill the void until an informed and rational choice can be made. I see you have come to a similar conclusion but i fear the way it is being implemented is flawed. Your recovery plan is not being advanced through underdosing. Either get completely into the methadone programme or get off , if you want to persevere with half measures.

Youre a smart young man affected with a terrible affliction. I was in a very similar situation when i was 20. I signed on to a methadone program at 20 after 4-5 years as an aide to a clandestine cook of homemade heroin made from OTC codeine tablets. I considered myself intelligent and knowledgable of narcotic synthesis and this 'Know it all" attitude served as earmuffs and blindfold to any criticism of my chosen lifestyle. I spent the following 12 years on methadone maintenance on doses as high as 230mgs/46mls of a 5:1 formula( when i was 21) but averaged at 155mgs where i remained for the magority of my maintenance journey.  I have been drugfree since September 2007 and am grateful for every day i spend free from the overwhelming compulsion to use.

I wish you all the best and strongly suggest you discuss issues you have raised here with your presrcibing physician. Take care. Regards Jeremy
Helpful - 0
569676 tn?1315641158
Hey there,

I was on Methadone Maintenance here in the states for 7 long years.  While many people will tell you to keep your dose low (Normally I would agree) however, here in the US, 20MG is actually an initial tiration dose.  Most clinics here start at 20MG, and give increases of 5MG every other day.  The clinic I was at started me at 29MG, and I finally stabilized at 160MG.

I think there is some confusion with some members as to how different a methadone program is overseas compared to here in the states.  The Methadone formula we use here in the states is typically a liquid called Methadose and its concentration is 10MG/ML  So we often refer to "How many ML's" we were on.  It sounds like you use a much stronger concentration that is measured in drops.  Intereseting stuff (Im a pharmacy geek myself)

I read your other post, and I think that you need to get your mom and your team together and accept that dose increase they suggested.  The reasoning is quite simple.  If you are still having cravings and depression... then methadone really isnt helping you out much.

The program was designed to keep the cravings and withdrawals at bay while you work on yourself.  Stabilize your life and build a solid foundation towards recovery.  While removing the stresses and compulsions of active addiction, you learn and develop the tools that you need to live life on lifes terms.  At which point you gradually decrease off the methadone.

Dont let maintenance fear you.  While there are a lot of people that got caught in this trap, for some its the only way. And maintenance does NOT mean for life!  I kicked after 7 years, and Im glad that I waited... had I kicked earlier I would have headed straight for relapse.  This race is won with thought, strategy, and planning... not speed.

Also, have you had a full physical before starting methadone treatment?  Its standard practice here in the states, and sometimes even requires a full set of blood chemistry to be drawn before initiating treatment.  With your background, Im sure you know that there are certain medical conditions which will cause you to break down and metabolize methadone at a much faster rate...  could there possibly be something more going on there?  Just checking?

As for the depression... its completely normal.  You are missing your good old friend "H"  You may feel as your life is lacking something... or just dont like the "Change"  Its almost a grieving process as was described to me when I went through it.  Once I was stabilized on my dose, the depression started to get better and I was able to come off the antidepressants.  With that said, keep a watch on that... depression can be a huge raodblock to recovery... and thats the ultimate goal here.

Hang in there bud, keep posting and feel free to ask as many questions as possible.

Henry
Helpful - 0
1510041 tn?1290148361
The only problem with inpatient rehabs is it's something of a false environment. You have to leave and more often than not return to the same environment that you did your using in. I'm not saying rehabs are not beneficial. In the UK rehabs are often funded by the government but it is interesting to note how many peope relapse on release. Community based treatment can often be more beneficial in the long term however being maintained on methadone is not the answer. It is however important to stabilize initially on a dose that holds you so that you are not feeling withdrawal symptoms.  20mg is a low dose however this obviously depends on how much opiates you were using.

In relation to the anxiety and depression you are feeling, it may would be a good idea to review this with your Doctor, he could potentially prescribe you anti-depresents and mood stalbilisers. Hopefully they could give you an alternative to valuim as this could create another dependancy which is obviously something that should be avoided.
Helpful - 0
1502361 tn?1290540230
It's not 20mL and it's not 30mG its 20mG (milligrams).Here,when you do as I do (i have from start "take home" but different) that means that I go to my doctor every week once and she prescribe me sufficient quantity of "Metadon" (that is brand name of Methadone here) for a WEEK.  So with a paper (prescription paper) i go to pharmacy and get two(if it is 20mg per day) or three (if it is 30mg per day) bottles of PURE Methadone-HCL in liquid state without any additives except some small amount of alcohol.But thing with 3mL(about 90 liquid drops) or 30mG is that when you calculate 90 drops X 7 days (week) you get:=630drops.Now the problem is that each bottle of pure Methadone has 300 drops which is 100mG.So when you do simple calculation you get that only solution is to prescribe me Methadone on 10days because ONLY THEN i get 900drops (as my need) and 10x90drops = 900drops and 3x300(three bottles of "Metadon") = 900drops or (300mG for 10 days).
              So,to be honest,I am on really small dose of Methadone in compare what I know and what i saw in a small piece of "info-paper" where it says that Methadone Treatment should last 21 day,then patient should start to tapper off like 20% of "ending dosage" each day.But in other hand,there is written: "Methadone Treatment showed more less efficiency when individual takes less then 60mG because every dosage less then 60mG is showing lack of "blockade effect" of Methadone.So optimal starting dosage is 60mg-120mg for optimal person." !! Why the hell they prescribed me starting 20mg when 60mg is starting...???  But later ,I've got an info that when you reach 60mG you are THEN starting your REAL maintence.
             So answers to SUBSRVIVOR:
Im on 20mG( twenty milligrams which is like 2mL or 60drops).
I have health insurance so every dose of Methadone my insurance pays,but there is a list of medicines that Republic of Serbia pays and there is a list where you have to pay just some "participation amount" ,and there are list of medicines that you have to pay in WHOLE.Methadone and Buprenophine (in pure form) are only registered medicines for opiate maintence program. (EVEN THO, pure Buprenorphine is starting to be on pharmacy shelters from January of 2011th ... so there is not gonna be "Suboxone" there is gonna be "Buprenophine Alkaloid Skoplje" (Macedonian Company) so not even called Subutex or similar... But ,yes,from 2011 Serbia will have Subutex too :) Finally.Not to mention that we don't have morphine in tablets or capsules as any other country has... (MS Contin, Oramorph , Hidromorphon etc... ) and there is no half natural opiate based medicine to be on while you are on Maintence.We had in some time "M-Elson" that was pure morphine with 12 hour release ,but they stop producing it in 2007. :( :( If we have had that now,i would certainly be on that,because any med that is closer to morphine itself is better in every way.There are lot less side effects,withdrawals are like with heroin (last like 3-7days) not like Methadone or Bupren. from 7 to 30 DAYS! THE WORST AGONY!!!But still there is tapper off...safe...
3rd question: I have had some side effects in begining like rash,red dots on my face,scars on my back and stomach and stuff like that.Ordinary histamine reaction.Methadone is more potent to receptors that are producing histamine in brain and body,so the level of histamine in my body was un-stable and like "unknown"to my body.But everything is coming to normal now...Almost every side effect of it ,came to normal.So,i dont have any more side effects.But i fell that 20mg for me is NOT ENOUGHT!!! It doesn't covers me 24 hour,i become anxious in the evening... :( :( Maybe because i drink it in the morning...?? But i have to,i just can't wait until my next dose... :( That's the point.I KNOW THAT I NEED MY 30MG that PHYSICIAN prescribed me but my mom doesn't belive me because of all sh*t that happened. But I really need that dose. :( :( Even my doctor after shrink (local) that is approved to rise dose and stuff have told me and prescribeing me 3 bottles of it like im drinking 30mg but my motheres like don't give me and in that case i think she is bad cooperator and she is interupting my therapy.But even if we go to that special Team,as she wants...we will go-NEXT WEEK-first of all i have to wait NEXT WEEK second of all if i tell them that i think she is not good cooperator as she didn't accept to rise my dosage ,she will kick me out of house FOR SURE!!!  And she is commonly saying that if i rise a little bit more,that i search for another place to live.I don't have another place to live... :( :( I don't have a single RSD(rep.serbia dinar) at my pocket...PLS HELP ME!!! What to do whit my depression,lack of therapy,and my mom???? I would held 1 bottle at my pocket,but she is comming (or dad) with me when i go to pharmacy to pick up my 10day methadone...

  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
HI well normally I would be the last one to tell you to increase your dose but you mentioned you where only taking 20ml thats the amount that most people start to have problems with tapering off it dosent hold you over well enough ....you said in your other post it was your mom that dident want you to increase your dose but the clinic wanted to move you up to 30ml....30ml will hold most x heroin addicts over...I wouldn't go higher eventually you will want off and the higher the dose and longer your on it the harder it is and let me tell you its a monster to come off of  something I will never forget ...you may also ask them to prescribe
an antidepressant that will help with both the depression and anxiety...you just started on the program it will take your body some time to adjust from the heroin you may just be missing the euphoria hang in there try what I suggested and see if that dont help good luck and God bless....Gnarly    
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
A caveat...I understand the need for drugs like Methadone and Suboxone. I personally believe they are a form of legalized drug dealing adopted by the medical industry...but I'm not going to rant. Some people need maintenance therapy...and Addict...you sound like you do. So in this case I am all for it if it will keep you away from heroin. Stilll I gotta ask...

1. Do you have the ability to go to an inpatient rehab facility?
             If yes....GOOOOOO. They will take care of every ailment you are feeling. Check on you constantly, and do their best to help with everything.

             If no.....taper down on the methadone and get off ASAP. At the same time, get set up with a psychiatrist and a therapist. You need support...and it sounds like you may have some other mental health issues you need to deal with.

Withdrawal is painful physically and mentally. Tapering is painful physically and mentally. You are clearly anxious...anxiety leads to depression quickly...especially when and opiate addict doesn't get what they need.

If you choose to go on maintenance therapy...it may be a life long decision. When people go on methadone maintenance...they are often on it for life. You are 20 years old man.

I wasted 4 years on Suboxone maintenance therapy...wasted time, money, stress...I could have gone to some plush rehab in Malibu a couple times over considering the money I've spent on maintenance over the years. Would have gotten clean in 30-60 days...and never messed with the replacement drugs.

If you can't afford anything beyond methadone...that is fine. You may need to use it, but you are 20 and 30-60 days is nothing.

I don't mean to push you in a direction...I guess Im just sharing what I wish Id done way back when.

Bottom line...you need to talk with a doctor about you anxiety and depression. So often people start using to self-medicate an issue...and they don't take care of it during maintenance. Then when they come off methadone or suboxone...all that anxiety and depression comes crashing back down.

Gimme some info if you could? How much methadone are you on now? What's your insurance/financial situation? Describe your reaction to the methadone in more detail...do you feel like you are in withdrawal, or is it something different?


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