Pain Doc asking me to come in on my full dose of OXY's??

[calyxgirl]

I have been a chronic pain patient for 5 years and am attempting to get off a dose of 420mg total of OXYCODONE per day and start Subuxone therapy. My pain doc has asked me to come in (NOT in withdrawl) but on my full dose, for my inital dose of Subuxone, won't that cause an immediate withdrawl if I'm not in withdrawl when I start the sub? Does anyone have some experiences to share of similar circumstances to mine and help me understand what I'm in for?  How long withdrawl, energy, sleep etc.?  Any help would be appreciated, my appt. is Tue.  I take both a short acting 30mg and a 40mg long acting OXY. Thanks.

[GA Guy]

That comment wasn't directed at you or anyone for that matter. Someone posted that Subutex didn't cause precipitated withdrawals. That's false, and it scared me when I saw it. Lots of people on here take Suboxone and Subutex as directed by a doctor. Some buy it on the streets. I just didn't want someone to see that and pop a Subutex while not in withdrawals. That would cause some definite problems. If someone was very high on a massive dose of opiates, and they were thrown into precipitated withdrawals, it could cause some serious health problems. Sorry for the confusion.

[calyxgirl]

Thanks so much for your help and direction AVISG, it is greatly appreciated. I will check it out.Take care!

[calyxgirl]

I hope the discussion and your statement about Subutex not causing w/d was not directed at me. If you read above, I never claimed to know anything about either Subuxone or Subutex, I was asking questions because I didn't know......Please...no more negativity on this post if you please.  I am here to learn from others and have stated such.

[avisg]

here is the url        http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Addiction/Members-experiences-coming-off-of-suboxone--/show/473?cid=66

[avisg]

There are some members experiences for you if  you would like to look at them . I don't know how many went form subutex over to sub but it has alot of good info from many people that went on it sub and got off it as well.
I  compiled some of our members experiences while using and then coming off of suboxone .People who are considering going  on suboxone read threw this so you know how it has been for others .Then also research research research before you make any decisions
They are up in the top right hand of the page in the 'health pages' there is alot of good info about many things.


  

[calyxgirl]

Ummm, sure plan on doing EXACTLY what my doc tells me.  If you read my post, I am looking for people's personal experiences with this transformation process so I have some idea of what I am in for.  I always use as RX. I think it would be ignorant to not hear personal stories on the patients end and just listen to the doc, who has not gone through the transformation from using pain medication to Subutex/Subuxone.  I am a very detailed person who is being my own advocate in learning more about what I am about to put into my body.  Thanks for the post though.

[avisg]

Do it just the way your doctors said for you to do NONE OF  OUR DOCTORS HERE .So go buy what he says and lets us know what happens. i have had a few friends that started and the subutex as well and had no problems. i hope it goes as well for you .

[calyxgirl]

You are correct Tom, I am VERY motivated to do this and I thank you for your support. I also offer you my support and just know you have the strength within you to make this your final detox.  Don't let the OXY get the best of your life, otherwise IT WINS!  Ya know what I mean?  It is a very hard thing to do both initally and long term, I have tried to go without my meds before and it is hard because it becomes your state of "normal" when your on the OXY ect.  My body is definately addicted to OXY but I do believe I am gifted in that I don't feel as though I have a psychological addiction to it meaning I don't "crave" it when I don't have it.  Obviously if I do feel like taking it at all, it's only to take away the withdrawls, which I believe is true of most people. W/D's SUCK!  Since you have had to do the SUB twice, does that mean it didn't work for you, or you just wanted the OXY more?  I am just curious since I have never been on SUB before.  Does the SUB help with physical pain? Are you nauseous (SP?) and how long after you start the SUB do the W/D symptoms subside, or do they?  What is the physical/mental difference between Subutex & Subuxone? Your help would be greatly appreciated as I see you are really the only one to respond to my post who has offered their experience with SUB tx. Perhaps I should create another post with a better subject line.  Thanks and good luck in your recovery, you ARE strong and can beat this, I just know it.... ;o)

[Tom1130]

Sub treatment is effective you sound like your pretty motivated to do this...  I have detoxed off of 200 mg's of Roxy with subutex , and detoxed off 400 mg's with suboxone the second time... almost 10 days clean and have done it my self no outpatient detox. You can do it... This web forum helps tremendously ..  And you can do it keep us up dated

[calyxgirl]

Thanks for your response Tom, however I do feel the need to let you know I do not and never have taken my Oxy to get high, nor does it make me high.  I have taken it purely for pain management.  I have thought about that Rapid Detox method but only to just get the meds out of my system not for Sub treatment.  Thanks for the info about going in with my Oxy in my system, I am going to call him tomorrow and hopefully he will agree to let me go into withdrawl and make my appointment later this week.  This is something I have been looking forward to for a while and I initiated it, not my doc.  If he had it his way, I would take that stuff forever.  I am tired of it and would like to see what my "actual pain" is after being off of the Oxy for a while.  I understand after being on it a while, it can actually cause more pain.  I am prepared for a painful process getting off of it but am a little weary of this Sub thing, so thanks for the input. Have a good one.

[Tom1130]

you can go in as "high" as you want if they put you under General Anesthesia Rapid detox but its not a one day things most are to be submitted for 5 days minimal under supervision.  but Ga Guy is right if you go in taking your Oxy then you will be banging your head against a wall.

[GA Guy]

I just wanted you to understand that you will go into withdrawals if you take Suboxone or Subutex. It's a very common mistake on here. People think the naloxone has something to do with the withdrawals when it doesn't. I'm sure your doctor will know the difference.

[calyxgirl]

Believe me, I have a list of 50 questions for my doctor prior to being put on the Sub.  I definately AM my own advocate when it comes to knowing what I am taking, why and what the potential side affects are.  I do trust my doctor to know what he is doing as you have to be certified to even RX Subuxone, however, doctors these days seem to be rushed and are not always clear with their answers.  I thought my asking my questions here first would shed some light on what I am to expect from taking this drug as well as my visit on Tue (showing up not in withdrawl etc.).  I always like to hear others experiences as well as the info the doc will give me.  Sometimes hearing various responses from the actual people taking Sub can give more info than a doc who has not gone through the physical aspect of getting off of opiates and taking this drug.  I personally am not sure if I like the idea of taking a drug to get off of a drug, but I think my brain needs that healing time while my body detoxifies from the OXY.  Any info from people who have taken OXY in similar doses as mine and then gone on SUB would be greatly appreciated and attacks on people are not my thing, I just wanted some insight as to what I'm in for from people who have also been in my position. Thanks.

[peaceinknowing]

We have to put faith in the doctors, who've gone through years and years of extensive training, education, schooling and extern/internships with these sorts of medical assesments. If you're uncomfortable in ANY way, then you need to step up and be nothing less than your own advocate in the situation at hand. There's nothing wrong with speaking up, asking questions and being concerned when it comes to your health.

I hope that nobody views this comment as an attempt to step on anyone's toes with their responses, but I feel that it's okay to be your own advocate and do whatever it takes before jumping into something to allow one to feel completely comfortable with the situation at hand. I hope this helps, and I also hope you stay here on the forums and post as much as you can to keep us informed with what happens in the long run with all of this. Best of luck, and keep your head and faith levels UP!

[GA Guy]

I'm sorry...but you are completely wrong about the Subutex. Saying this is dangerous..and, I hope the pain doctor would know better. The naloxone in Suboxone has absolutely nothing to do with the precipitated withdrawals. The buprenorphine in the Suboxone AND Subutex is the chemical that throws you into precipitated withdrawals. The buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors than the original opiate does. It then knocks it off and takes its place. The naloxone doesn't even factor into the equation unless it's taken IV. Then the naloxone will cause withdrawals. That's why it's placed in the Suboxone. If you take it under your tongue, the naloxone never reached the bloodstream. Please, do not take Suboxone or Subutex if you're in anything except pretty heavy withdrawals.

[TrayCee]

you wont go into wd's on subtex, its contains NO naloxone

[TrayCee]

That could be it.

[calyxgirl]

That's what I thought!  Two visits ago, he told me I would have to be in a mild-mod. state of w/d and then the last appt. he told me I would take my normal am. dose and then come see him at 10:15am and he would have me take the Sub.  I don't get it....Is it possible that he would give me SubuTEX and does that make it so I don't go into w/d?

[TrayCee]

you ABSOLUTLY have to be in full wd's before starting suboxone

[missy812]

I don't think they would send you into WD without telling you.
I think they just want to get your sub dosage correct, and you'll probably start the sub later?  I'm not sure though, i don't have experience with it, but I really don't think they would send you into WD without warning you!!  Sorry I can't help more.

[calyxgirl]

I meant to make the subject line of my question, "Pain Doc asking me to come in to START SUBUXONE TREATMENT without tapering and while on my full regular dose of oxy.  Can anyone help me out here?  What will happen if I am not in withdrawal and I take Subuxone?  Thanks.