Pain controll and oxycontin

I am a 50 year old man who did drugs (mostly IV). morphine and diliaudid  were      
my drugs of choice. I went clean for 17 years before trouble in the cervical spine
required 2 surgerys over 2 years.  my spine is now stable but i'm still in constant,
intractable pain for which  i take oxy-contin (40mg X 3a day).

my question :
I kike to periodically detox  myself for several reasions. i try to think of it as vac-
ation from drugs. Am i causing myself harm in doing this? i can't talk to my MD
about this as it would reqire going over transgerssions (to say the least) that
happened 20 years ago.
one tough, old grizzled, hype and pill head
who trys to keep an angel on his shoulder!
kip

[radioboy74]

I have recently been prescribed STADOL NS for severe migraines, can anyone tell me anything about this medicine.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I do the same thing myself periodically. My last stint was detoxing from MS Contin nine days ago.  I had been on them for about six weeks. I've been on hydrocodone for 18 months as well. When it gets to the point that I'm like a kid with a bag of candy and wanting to abuse the meds no end, I go on "vacation".

The way I figure, if you can survive the dreaded WD's, it has to be good for you!  If you think that stopping for a short time will decrease your tolerance level, forget it.  It takes months. I usually last as long as I can stand the pain of my afflictions which is maybe two weeks.  I really can relate to what you are going through.  Keep trying to find your sense of equalibrium here!

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.
boy is it good to hear from you! what have been up to. sometimes
i feel you are the only one who has a real clear idea about this.
ever since getting "active with this forum last spring i have al-
ways gotten good insight from your posting
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What have I been into?  It seems like I'm up to my ears in sh*t these days. My wife is going in for a CAT scan Monday to see if her cancer has spread to her pancreas.  She's in a lot of pain in that area lately.  My Mom is going through a rough time with melanoma and I call her everyday to help keep her spirits up.

When things seemed so dark, I only had one thing left....God.  I asked for the strength to be able to help my loved ones. My prayer was answered almost immediately! It's not like I have to pray every moment, just living right is enough. We are the first ones to know when we transgress and say "what the hell, swallow these!".  Today, I feel like I'm so new to all of this in spite of the fact that I've been through "this" countless times.  

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.
i can relate to being up to your ears in **** lately. I wasn't till
yesterday when my Mom called to tell me the nursing home my Dad is
in had him hospitalized for pneumonia. i don't know if this is it
for him, but is real bad. my first thought (i'm not proud, but i'm
honest), was please god let him last until after my next visit to
the pain Doc. just like a mutherf__king junkie. i felt like i was
waiting for him to expire so i could steal his shoes. i'm really
a piece of work sometimes.

hope things in your household calm down and brighten up. i guess
this is stuff you turn over and take back and turn over again.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[butterbeans]

Don't be so hard on yourself Skipper.  You sound pretty down lately.  I am on 6th day again of detox and feel OK, but, a bit depressed, isolated, I guess.  But, I keep saying I am going to do this.  I hope it sticks this time.  If anyone can help, I finally got a URL to get on the ezboard, but, I have AOL and it says to paste to AOL if yu have that.  Well I have no idea how to paste anything on this computer.  If WW or anyone out there is reading this, please help.  Thanks.  Be up today, Skipper!
Butterbeans

[Durty]

I tried to get onto that "other" site but it always asks for all my personal info in order to registar.  Any way around all that?  I just know the basic left click highlight right click copy and then paste, sorry can't help you with that.  Durty

[butterbeans]

I didn't like giving my personal info. either, but, it said the site is secure.  How secure is it, would you know.  I sure don't want anyone besides all of you to know who I am!!!
Butterbeans

[skipper]

Butterbeans:
thankyou for your responce...sometimes saying the things that are
obvious, but unobvious...anyhow thankyou. i too am in day 6 and i
feel as if i've hit the wall emotionally. i'll be ok, just don't
want to have another sleepless night. swam 1/2 mile today. this is
not too far for someone who use to average 2-4 miles in the pool a
day before my spine gave out. it is a begining (perhaps). i know
i will never have the life i had before, but damm i want some kind
of life!! i also realise i will be off and on oxycontin for the
rest of my life (at least that's what my pain doc implies). some-
times a person (especially a junky) has to put there head down and
just move a head no matter what! that's kind of where i'm at today!

keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm on day ten from morphine and it was a rough one this morning. I had dreams about using that were too real and I woke up feeling like hell.  But I made it another day in spite of myself!

I was just wondering, how does Oxy Contin compare to morphine as far as WD's go?  Are they worse?  I have no experience with OC but it's all you hear about these days in the media.

J.B.

[skipper]

JB:
it all depends on how either drug is administered. when i was a
real hype (complete with long yeller teeth) i liked morphine more
than heroin. it was easy to steal, had a terrific rush, and a few
good nods when all the bang had gone. my withdrawals were of "epic" proportions. i'ld be laid up at least 7 days and usually no solid food for at least 10 days. course i was strictly IV back then (have i ever mentioned i've never snorted coke?).

now my pain doc doesn't like mscontin. claims the digestive tract
destroys over 65% of the drug before it gets passed the blood/brain barrier. where he got the 65% i don't know, but he's been pretty trustworthy and square with me.

so... i'm not sure about oral morphine wd vs oxy-c wd. coming off
oxy-c is like coming off a very huge hydro-c habit. i sure haven't had the gut wrenching, shitting in my pants (course you couldn't get Imodium (immodium) back then) hurt so bad your afraid you won't die stuff that a GOOD habit to God's own medicine (3-5 grains a day). Oxy-c has a very large emotional component of pain that i've never expierenced with any other drug. the germans invented
oxycodone during WW2. it is synthesized from thebain, a alkyloyd
present in raw opium. intresting thing about thebain is it re-
embles strychine. it's also a cns stimulant in it's raw form.
when the germans first issued it out in 20mg. vial for iv inject-
ion. supposedly the stuff would hit you like a speed ball, but
the pharm industry fixxed that little affect. i've noticed i get
really up and around after a good blast of oxy-no nods for me.

hope i shed some light before i bored you with my useless knowl-
edge!

keep an angel on your shoulder
respectfully kip

[Elvira]

I belong to a few different EZ board sites and they are secure  no one knows all the personal information,the administrator does not have access to all that stuff.  No one does  trust me  I've been around the boards along time.  Then there is a place for your personal bio which of course is optional.  You don't even have to make your email address public so no one knows who you really are and of course you don't even have to give your real name.  Butterbeans,  you can copy and paste the info into your browser or type it in,    Just type in the url and click on go it should take you right to whatever board you want to go to.  The browser is toward the top of screen with the word go next to it,  If you want to copy and paste it's real easy.  You highligh the words you want copied, click on edit  you will see a drop down menu,  click on copy,  then put your cursor where you want to put the URL, go back and click on edit again, this time click on paste and the words will appear where your cursor is,  In this case you would do this:  make sure your browser does not have anything typed in,highlight the URL, click on edit, click on copy  place the cursor in the browser and click on edit then paste,the url will appear in the browser and then click on go. I hope this helps.  Again, these sites are secure and no one will have access to your personal information,     good luck      Elvira

[skipper]

hey people:
this afternoon will be 7 days free of oxycodone! Physically i feel
pretty good. emotionally i've hit the wall. Tried to sleep without
using anything last night. at 1;30 i broke down and took 2mgs. of
klonipam. i slept untill about 7:45 this morning.
i'm still pushing a real high pain level (+8). will just see how
long i last. hey everyone have a great Sunday.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

That's great news about day seven. I'm half way through day eleven, I think. The reason I asked you about OC was because I wanted to know whether you were going through the same turmoil as me. Probably so from the sound of it. Today has been pretty decent but my longing persists. It's the worst part to go through and the longest when time seems to stand still. Alas, what have we done to ourselves to warrant this?

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.
todays has been like an emotional buzz saw! i guess i can't com-
plain too much...when did complaining ever get us junkys ****?
i've had one of those days where everthing seems to go to ****
way to fast. i feel much beter since a unexpected expierence helped
me change my attitudes.
tomarrow (day 8) i go back to work for the first time since xmas.
so J.B.  what ya think?    will it kill me?  will i kill someone
else?

i guess i've told you this, and maybe i'm wrong, but comming off
high dose oxy has this component of emotional pain unlike any other
opiate i've ever used. the rest (after the first night) was like
getting over a weekend where i took one too many hydro-c.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[skipper]

good morning:
just like to say this is day 8 no oxy. slept somewhat beter last
night. i'm at work early, waiting to swim some laps before the
work day begins. i don't know how long i will be able to continue
this...my pain levels are really up. in spite of the pain, i've
noticed a number of things i actually like about being oxy free!
i guess i'm operating on the notion that something good might
happen today.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[AnnieS]

Hope your work day went well. I found that keeping busy was the best medicine for keeping my mind off the oxy's. My boyfriend however who would have 60 days in on the 11th I am affraid has gone lut again. He insists that he hasn't and I want to believe him but I know the signs too well. He says that I have no faith in him. That he was like that from taking Lomotil and zanax foe diahrea and anxiety. I know how hard it is to relapse but I'm having a hard time letting go. I want to be there for him because I'm affraid he'll really go back out after doing so well and getting through all that withdrawal pain but I can't stand to see him nodding. It's disgusting to see and like looking in the mirror. To think that's what I was like not too long ago. I got feedback about the lomotil and zanax but I'm still not convimced he is telling the truth. I am just going to see what happens this week. Keep up the good work, your doing great.

[skipper]

so it's almost 3:00pm. in 10 more minutes i'll be home and get-
ting ready to take "meaty-boy," my keeshound for a4-5 mile spin.
i swam 1 mile non-stop before work this morning and i've been
moderately busy (spring semester doesn't start till next week).

swimming was the only activity that wasn't really painfull. i
could of stayed in the pool all day swimming non-stop. i guess
i just want to swim into oblivion...let the chlorine water bleach
my tracks while i time travel back to the time when i wasn't a
drug addict..where i wasn't in such horid pain. i get a lot out
of distance swimming!!

annies your right about staying busy. for the next few days (at
least) i'm going to put my head down and move forward no matter
what

so..
keep an angel on your shoulder!!
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I envy your be able to swim. I was once a "human fish" myself when I had access to the ocean or swimming pool.  Here in Central Indiana those are hard to find, especially in January.

I believe I'm on day thirteen but maybe not. I broke down and took two Darvocets this morning. Actually, they took the edge off of my leg pain and made me feel pretty good for a while. The bottle says I have 3 refills before 6/01. It's an old perscription.

The main thing is, stay busy and try to fight depression, right? That's easy enough to say but doing it is another matter!

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
such a pleasure to get not one responce from you, but two. my
workday has begun. i have some writing you may enjoy. i don't
think it's proper to post it. anyhow if you would e-mail me at
***@**** i'll send some along. it's really no big deal
if you don't want to see it.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

Gosh, i really respect all of you!!!
I'm such a wimp, i can't even stand the feeling of going into the beginnings of wd, and you have pain to boot!
Kip, i'm trying to keep that angel on my shoulder, but she's giving me dirty looks because i can't muster up the courage to do what i need to.
My addiction is getting worse.  It's taking more and more to stay outta withdrawal, and i don't have the resources!
The kids are demanding, my husband is demanding and depressed, i'm running around in circles trying to keep everything going, and having withdrawals to boot!
I also dream back to a world when i wasn't an addict, remembering what it was like.  Everything was basically good, and i'll say this, i was a hell of a lot happier drug-free than any little flashes of a high i'm getting from these blasted oxys are giving me!
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

jennyfla:

wait awhile and you'll grow stronger
never mind what the sad folks say.
just keep an angel on your shoulder
and never throw your dreams away
for they may save your life one day.
               Tom Russell

wish i would have written that....

never throw your dreams away
kip

[jennyfla]

Thanks Kip, I really needed that this afternoon! :)
I'm glad to hear how the rest of that goes! :)
I won't give up, i'm far far far to stubborn of a person to do that, just ask my husband (i'm bullheaded as can me!!!)
I have to focus on parts of me that can make this happen.  I need to pull out the Jennydetermination, and the jennywillofiron, the jennywhoalwaysknewhowshewantedherlifetobe, the jennymommy that cares too much for her children for them to have a mommy like this, all the parts of jenny that don't associate with the person who's addicted.  They are breaking down the walls trying to get out wondering what the hell i think i'm doing!!!
Thanks for the inspiration!  :)
Lv Jenny

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My gosh, it must be at least a year that you've been with us here! That in itself says something about your determination.

I hate to say it but, there are two things that you can do about your growing tolerance.  Take more and more or quit for a long, long time. This has been my experience at least.  Both solutions are difficult.  I'm not sure but, weren't you talking about going on methadone some time ago? Hang in there, I can sense what you must be going through and sympathize your situation. All I can offer you is support and my prayers as you deal with this rather complex condition called addiction. If we had the "answers", we probably wouldn't be meeting like this!

J.B.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I just wanted to say that the past three days have been tough.  My wife's cancer has spread to her right kidney and the only recourse at this point is to remove it(the whole kidney). Her surgery is set for the 17th.

I'm trying to stay away from opiates and yet I had to get a script filled for Percoset for my wife yesterday.  Anyone who has been addicted and found themselves in a pharmacy with a bag of pills, knows what I am talking about. I just gave her a dose about 30 minutes ago and it took all I had not to dose myself! I am trying to stay determined and not lower myself to the point of stealing her pain meds. On top of that, her doctor told me to call him if she needed something stronger. All in all, this surely is hell on earth for her and me. If you can find it in your hearts, say a little prayer for us tonight.

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
you want me to pray for your wife and you...i think i was doing
that 10 words into your post. i know what it feels like to have
your own health slip or lose a bit of ground...but i can't even
imagine my wifes health doing that. my wife, Irish Rose went thru
a period of uncontrolled asthma, and that was worse then anything
thats ever happened to me!

and i hear ya' on that bag of someone elses goodies. cuddling up
to some one else Rx is just plain bad medicine. i wouldn't want
to morning-after-reconcile for that for anybody, let alone my wife! but to be honest, i'ld rather not be tested the way you have been.

for what it's worth, i truly admire your gracefull honesty and
bravery. J.B. your wife is a very fortunate to have you for a
spouse. i understand your desire to have a "clean hand" thru all
this. my father is just finishing up a case of pneumonia. for the
beter part of a week it looked like he wouldn't make it. truth be
told, i think that was a large reasion for my last detox vaca-
ion. opiates and the possiable death of a loved one would come at
a very high price emotionally.

if you would like us to pray, consider it done.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thank you, Kip! I feel motivated now and more determined to see this thing through. I'm resolved in the thought that if I stay clean, things will be just fine.

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
just wanted to let you know i've been praying and thinking about
what you are going thru. words just seem to fail me here in ex-
pressing my concern. i prayed for you to have whatever it takes
to get thru the rough days ahead. whatever happens, there is a way
thru. i'm sure you will find it.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[ep1]

Question? It is a lesser of 2 evils type thing but,will Ultram ( 1 or 2 50 mg tabs a day,no  more) stop the anxiety and stomach cramps of Oxy withdrawl (withdrawal)? I have some from a while back and figure if they do ,it is a viable short term alternative.......is it?

[IrishRose]

ep1- Don't mess with Ultram if you can help it. This is like the mother monkey on your back (Oxy) giving birth to a baby that will also cling on. There are ways to taper or get off Oxy, I myself have been clean for awhile but look through the postings and archives here and you will see info regarding tapering and detox. Yeah Ultram will probably make you feel better for awhile but somehow these  short term things with this type of drug have a way of turning into some long time misery despite our best intentions. I'm just an old lush but I'm married to someone on Oxy, helluva a drug to get off of as I've seen firsthand and read on this forum. Keep reading & posting, I'm sure someone will see your post and give you better advice than I can for getting off Oxy. It can be done. Hang in, IR.

[dabby]

I really need some words of encouragement.  I have been a heavy user of Hydrocodone for about 2 1/2 years now.  I knew I was addicted, but could always manage to get some by doctoring prescriptions, but my luck has run out.  I am starting to feel the affects of withdrawal but feel like I would rather die than go through another recovery process.  I had hoped that my liver would just explode and I would die, but I am not that lucky.  I'm going to have to go through it.  Please help.

[skipper]

dabby:
welcome to the forum. there is always room for one more addict. i
think you will discover that this forum has many good people who
have been where your headed. there's no shortage of compassion and
expierence.

you may find it helpful to post closer to the top (most recent). it is real easy to get overlooked if your not pretty close to the top. just break in on any old thread. we are quite informal here.

so, your starting withdrawals from hydrocodone? you may want to
check around the older postings and the archives for Thomas's detox recepe. it sure makes a difference for me. what your headed for is unpleasent, but not life threating.

thing about detox, is sooner or later everybody has to  come down
and do a withdrawal. i've always been of the attitude that when
it is time to do it, the sooner the beter!!

hope to be hearing how it's going
kip

[Jack G.]

Never been in an on-line forum before.  Let me know if I do anything really stupid.  Have been on oxy and Lorcet for about 15 mo. now as the result of a car accident where I was rear-ended and suffered lower back pain that will not go away.  My doctor put me on Lorcet to begin with and then added Oxy 5 mg. to the mix.  Now my doc feels that I am addicted.  Ashamed to admit it but it is probably true.  He has cut off my scrips and I am going thru the worst WD in the world.  There was no warning, he just said no.   What's more is that I still have severe pain in my lower back. I need to taper off and I am fairly certain I can do it but I need to get some more to taper.  I am jumping out of my skin and it has only been 24 hrs.  The sad part is that I have lots of money but no connection.  Never needed one before.  Is there any place where you can go just to get enough to taper off anonymously?  I'm starting to think about doing something desperate to get my hands on something.  Any help would be appreciated.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I can hardly believe your doctor has cut you off like that.  But it has happened to me in the past as well. What have you done to make him think you are addicted to pain meds? I know that sounds like a stupid question coming from someone like me.

Before you do something illegal like buying from the street or forging scripts, consider a detox facility if money is not a problem. Believe it or not, they can really make you a whole lot more comfortable while going through WD's.  Especially if this is your first time around.  My first was my worst some thirty years ago but I was kept pretty much sedated for the first four days.

This is about all I can suggest at this point.  Give us some feedback!

J.B.

[dabby]

You know I never thought of myself as a "real" addict eventhough I have been addicted to many things many times.  I have never experienced withdrawal the way I am with hydrocodone.  I am in bad shape, still trying to work and not being able to concentrate on anything.  All I can think about is how to get more.  Everytime I detoxed from Alcohol, I did so in the hospital.  The last time for that was 7 years ago.  I really don't want to stop using, but don't know how to get more.  I know the longer I put this off the harder it will be.  Does anyone have any comments??  Thanks . . . I am glad I found this website and registered.  There is a lot of support here.  I just don't know how to post on the top of the list.

[skipper]

dabby:
i'm sure glad you've decided to come back and post here again!
hydrocodone withdrawal can be very difficult and uncomfortable!
doing the difficult and uncomfortable doesn't mean doing it a-
lone! as i told you after your last post, try posting closer to
the top. i know that when i'm real busy, it's easy for me to o-
verlook new posting down in the "basement!" i certainly hope to
hear more from you!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[dabby]

It sure does feel good getting a response, but can you tell me how to post at the top?  I thought it went by date. Thanks, skipper, so much.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Dabby, just click on the top thread and then click post a comment after scrolling down. You can type whatever you want to.

If you have had an alcohol problem in the past then opiates would probably be a problem as well.  It's all about the same as far as addiction goes. I am that way myself. The problem with such a dual addiction is that after being on opiates for some time, they start to lose their effect. Drinking alcohol temporarily brings those warm vibes back. Imagine what that does to your poor liver! You, me and anybody who indulges the way we do, needs help. Your doctor would probably just tell you to quit it! Hah, hah, wave your magic wand and just say no.

Stick around for a while, you may be helped by something someone says here. Remember, nothing you say here will shock anyone so give a voice to your addictive nature. Then listen to it yourself.

J.B.
PS, How's it going with you today? I really enjoy your wife's posts. You are a lucky man!

[skipper]

J.B.:
i know how lucky i am. too bad i can't take the credit. it's not
like i thought to myself "you should get hitched up to Irish Rose
and live happy ever after!" it all just goes to show you that ev-
en good things sometime happen to really screwed up people. she
will not believe me when i tell her she is the best thing that
ever happened to me.

so how goes life for you? since your next to the last (i think)
post to me i've had you and your wife in my thoughts. i can un-
derstand you wanting to detox and stay clean (reguarless of the
pain) through your present ordeals. a good deal of the motive for my last detox was my father almost dieing. it lasted 11 days before the pain became unbearable. i guess i'll just keep trying. maybe sometime i'll try it (detox) to discover that the pain levels are down enough to make it do-able.

isn't that just like a f__king junkie! here i was asking about
your problems, only to end up talking about my own! i'm sorry
about that! i really would like to get an update about what's
happening in your life. so...when you can let us know.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My better half goes in for a kidney biopsy tomorrow morning and I'm a lot more worried about it than she is. They are going to stick her kidney in four places with an 8 guage needle(coat hanger size)and with only a shot of Valium to ease things. I went through two biopsies on my liver and can tell you it is no picnic!

I want to use so badly right now but there is no way that my addiction is going to interfere with any of my wife's care. I'm all she has and I will be here mentally and physically for her.

Thanks for being in my corner, Skip! It's doable, right?

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
i'm at work. just broke my key off getting access to highly re-
stricted area. now i have to wait for someone else to show up, as
i can't leave the place unlocked. that pretty much puts the idea
of lap swimming on hold today...****!

i hope all goes well with your wifes's biopsy. if she is anything
like my wife, a shot of valium might be enough to do the trick.
my wife is one of these people who can not tollerate narcotics
(?).

anyhow my thoughts will be with the two of you today. these
things have a way of being over very quickly. i hope that is the case today!

keep the angel on your shoulder!
kip

[IrishRose]

J.B. - This must be the morning she is having her bx, you are both in my  prayers right now! I know what it is like to sit on the other side of the bed and see a loved one go through hell. Let me tell you, Skipper is one helluva a good looking robust guy but when they brought him back to his room after surgery last summer full of tubes, and dressings looking so vulnerable my heart nearly broke, I felt so powerless.  I will be thinking of you both today. Take care, IR.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Things couldn't have gone any better yesterday! The staff was more than considerate and caring. The doctor did what he called a thin needle biopsy and actually only stuck her once. My wife was allowed to take her Percoset 30 minutes before the procedure which helped immensely. Afterwards, we stayed in a private room for three hours and got a free lunch that actually tasted like real food!

Marty is at present getting ready for work so I know she is feeling okay.  All I am worried about right now are the results of the test which we will hear about on Monday. The biopsy doctor said yesterday that kidney cancer is quite rare which made us feel a whole lot better. Things just seem to be getting better and better!

Thanks for both of you,

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
free lunch-real food? are you sure you were in a hospital? before
my first spine surgery, the neurosurgeon ordered a milogram
(spelling). It's the test where they inject dye in your spine and
then watch through a x-ray florascope, while someone holds you in
all sorts of painfull positions you would never put yourself in.
the day before the test, the hospital called and told me no food
or drink or pain pills before. get to the hospital and find out
i was supposed to take pain pills before i came in. now i won't
go any further, except to tell everyone NEVER GET A MILO-GRAM
WITHOUT PAIN PILLS IN YA!!

i'm glad to hear everything is ok so far

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yep, we were in a real hospital. And it is worth the extra 30 minute drive. Actually, this small community hospital seemed over staffed compared to the large med center we are used to dealing with. Anyway, we were more than pleased!

I heard what you said about the mylograms. I wouldn't want one even if I were completely knocked out. A friend of mine who is a commercial pilot was grounded for several months after he had this done to him. He said the test is worse than the original problem!

I noticed that a lot of people have been asking for Tom's detox recipe here. I know he has worked long and hard to develop it and is famous for it so I won't infringe on his territory. When I detox, I use Immodium AD, benzos like Xanax and a lot of vitamins and supplements. L-tyrosine and 5HTP also help restore neurotransmitters and dopamine levels. Lots of herbal teas or plain water help to flush out the toxins in our systems as well.

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
good to hear your wife is doing ok. i've been away from my com-
puter for several days. let me know if you get any test results.
keep man angel on your shoulder.
kip

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've been away myself for a few days.  The results came back and it's squamous cell carcinoma. All they said is that it came from some other part of her body and I was told this is pretty rare stuff, especially on the kidney. No word yet from the surgeon. We are just trying to keep her as painfree as possible at present. She refuses to stay home from her job! Life's fun with a strong willed, determined woman!

J.B.
P.S. I think I'm on day 27 from opiates, lost count somehow....

[IrishRose]

J.B- been looking for your posts. I am truly sorry to hear this, you and Marty are still in my prayers. Day 27 for you, wow! I don't know what to say, you have given old Job a run for his money this year. Love, IR.

[Witchywoman]

JB, for what it is worth, please know that my prayers are with you and your wife.  I've gushed here before about what a wonderful person I think you are, so let me gush again, as well as offer support and empathy...as much as you need or want. You have faced so much pain and so many struggles in your life, and if I could take some it for you, I would.
At times like these, I take comfort in some of the words of my favorite poet, Khalil Gibran. He said something to the effecto "the pain of love carves deeply into your heart, so you can then contain more joy and compassion"
Regardless, though we have never met, you will forever hold a special place in my heart, and not only because way back when, you were the first person to reply to my first desperate cry for help on this forum.
I love and care about you, and hope that somehow that helps you through these trying times.

Kip, ditto for you my friend. Your constant integrity and kindness have worked magick for me over the months...I'll always remember the way your no nonsense approach, and your honesty and caring zipped right on past the armour I usually have around me and melted the distrust of others that was keeping me from getting out of denial and changing my relationship with these drugs. May you be free of pain, and of suffering. Please give your lovely wife a huge hug from me...she is yet another one of the many angels amoung us.

My goodness I'm having a mushy night! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.  
lots of love,
WW

[Wizard]

First hello to everyone I miss you all but have never been far away.
J.B. my Brother, along with Kip, I cannot begin to tell you how distressing it is to hear the news. I felt a need to address you here instead of just privately.My thoughts and prayers of today  will be exclusively Marty's for her well being, and for you to have the strength to carry on with the burden at hand. I know I do not have to tell you that you have a friend in all of us. Whatever we can carry for you, you know we would. I'm finding the words hard to come by to express what's in my heart right now. So, I won't just ramble on. Just "KNOW" my friend, just "KNOW".
Tara and I do in fact have a fond love of Kahlil Gibran's wisdom and share it often when appropriate. With that said I'd like to leave some of that wisdom with you all. I think it reflects how Kip, WW, you and I feel about each other, so here it is:

AND a youth said, Speak to us of Friendship.

And he answered, saying:

Your friend is your needs answered.

He is your field which you sow with love
and reap with thanksgiving.

And he is your board and your fireside.

For you come to him with your hunger,
and you seek him for peace.

When your friend speaks his mind you
fear not the "nay" in your own mind, nor
do you withhold the "ay."

And when he is silent your heart ceases
not to listen to his heart;

For without words, in friendship, all
thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born
and shared, with joy that is unacclaimed.

When you part from your friend, you
grieve not;

For that which you love most in him may
be clearer in his absence, as the mountain
to the climber is clearer from the plain.

And let there be no purpose in friend-
ship save the deepening of the spirit.

For love that seeks aught but the dis-
closure of its own mystery is not love but
a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable
is caught.

And let your best be for your friend.

If he must know the ebb of your tide,
let him know its flood also.

For what is your friend that you should
seek him with hours to kill?

Seek him always with hours to live.

For it is his to fill your need, but not
your emptiness.

And in the sweetness of friendship let
there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures.

For in the dew of little things the heart
finds its morning and is refreshed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-excerpt from The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran

J.B., May God Bless and Keep you and your wife in His Everlasting Light and Love ALWAYS!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light 2 U 2,
Much Heart Felt Love,
Wiz

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I want to thank you all for your kind support during these difficult times. Wiz doesn't post here anymore but he emails me. WW, you and he must have a love for Kahil Gibran!

It's zero dark thirty here and we have an appointment at the hospital for more testing. I will go armed with the knowledge that my true friends are with me in spirit.

Don't ask me how I have done it but, I have managed to stay clean when I am most needed here. It's a spark of life I've gotten from somewhere. Maybe it's an inner strength that we cut ourselves off from while we are high?

J.B.

[skipper]

J.B.:
words can't describe my concern for not only your wife, but for
you also. i don't seem to have a lot of inner-strength these
days, but you're welcome to any of it i do have. i'm glad to see
you are staying clean thru all of this. i'm not sure, but i do believe it's been over 30 days for you...

witchy woman:
thankyou for remebering me in your above post. i guess the 2 of
us go back over 6 months ago. i'm pleased you have found some-
thing that seems to work for you staying clean. i've been back
on the oxy almost 2 weeks and i'm already planning another de-
tox. i guess i'm still trying to strike some kind of balence with
all this on/off stuff. i will give IR a hug for you anytime. my
life may be a mess in every other way, but i know i have been
blessed with the best wife possiable!!

so everyone... keep the angel on your shoulder!!
kip

[Telby]

JB -  You are in my heart and in my prayers.  I think of all the times I come to these boards in agony and see your posts - I always recognize your feelings and leave with a sigh of recognition and acceptance. I am but one of thousands who I am sure you have brought peace and friendship to on cold old sick nights. I pray that all of our sighs are now a shining star which will protect you and keep you during the days to come.  You will know what to do and you will have the strength to do it, your wife is blessed to have you.  Please stay close and let us know, even just a few words so we can stay whereever you need us.  Much love JB and thank you for all of the words that help to make it tolerable. love, Telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I think that things are going to be just fine here! After all this time together, I think that my wife and I have discovered "true love". It's hard to explain the feeling I get when I look at her. All of the stress and strife and pain has been replaced by a peaceful acceptance of things as they really are. I can't say that we are truly happy but at least we are peaceful and nurturing with one another. There's precious little time for anything else but love!

Bless your heart for always taking the time to express your concern!

J.B.

[jennyfla]

JB,
Thank you for posting back to me way up on the thread, you're such a sweet person, thinking of me even with all the things going on in your life right now!!!
I love your post about looking at your wife and knowing that your love is so strong!!
The way you are able to look at the positive things and not focus on negative is just so wonderful, i'm gonna try that out!!! :)
I wish your wife all the best with her diagnose and treatment.  I will say a prayer that everything will be ok!!!!!
Just focus on your love for eachother, and everything will be ok!!
You hang in there and know that we are here to offer all the support you need! :)
Oh, and a BIG congratulations on all your days clean... I really respect your strength.  It's so easy to fall when life throw us it's little wrenches in our gears, just wanted to let you know that you rate HIGH (no pun intended) in my book!!!!!  :)
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

hey people, just wanted to let people know i will attempt to
start yet another detox this weekend. it probably won't last be-
cause of the pain i'm in, but a few days or weeks won't damage
me. don't know if i will be posting much, so everyone have a nice
and safe weekend.
JB:
know that the thoughts of many of us are with you. there is a way
thru all of this and i believe you will find it!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Telby]

Your on my mind, in my heart and in my prayers tonight. Get some rest and know that you and your wife are loved.    

*Skipper, I am stumbling along behind your graceful dance. love,Telby

[GingerLee]

JB, I am sending you what force of strength I have. You are an inspiration and a blessing.
p.s I enjoy Gibran myself, and he,like all truths are timeless.
"The soul is of one age"... Hayden

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thank you so much! You'll never know what your words have done for us today.  I am going to have to call my wife's doctor this morning to ask for something a little stronger for the pain she is in. I was not remotely prepared for the way things are happening here.

Today is our late daughter's birthday and I want to be able to get us to the cemetary. That's all I ask is for my dear wife to be able to place a white rose on her grave. My heart is breaking but I am not broken enough to not go on.

Damn, life sucks at times. But for the most part it's pretty damn good to be here!

J.B.

[IrishRose]

I am so sorry to hear your wife is hurting, she sounds like one tough cookie so it must be bad if she is willing to let you call for some meds. I pray that relief will come her way today. Also for you J.B. Losing a loved one, esp. a child, I can't imagine how broken your hearts must be. Wish there was something more I could do but I will keep your family in my heart and in prayer today as I have been. Love, IR.

[skipper]

JB:
just remember, there is a way thru this. you will find it. my
thoughts are with you.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Telby]

You lost a child? That must be unbelievably difficult for both of you.  Honey, keep pushing for those pain meds for her, there is no reason for anyone to be in pain in this day and age.  She is so blessed to have you right there taking care of her and I will be thinking of you today as yesterday and the day before. So many people love you and are standing by to take whatever of your burden that can be shared.  You know we'll worry sick if we don't hear from you so thank you for staying in touch.  Much love, Telby

[SHOTSY]

Someone shared the news today of the battles you've been living thru. I haven't come here often cause of the difficulties with the new software here. But felt I must come and fight to get a note to you.

Just know I'm here. We are all here. The countless people that you've helped are a tribute to your generous spirit.
The person I got to know here, is a great person. Your wife, she also has to be. I know it must be so. I know I will never be able to reach out and touch you ,but my heart is........

Love, Shotsy

[SHOTSY]

I agree, it is a lovely day..........
Only problem with these lovely days are my peach trees are budding and if we get a good freeze....no peaches again this year.
But I can't *****. It is nice to have this weather in January.
And the buttercups are starting...my favorite flower.
Yes, enjoy these warm days, they're good for the spirit......

Take care, Shotsy

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thank you, Shotsy!  I think about you and some of the discussions we've had in the past.  I'm glad to see that you are still here and apparently doing well.

Oh, what a beautiful morning here in downtown Indiana!  It's supposed to get up to 65 today and this is January?  Who needs Florida when it's like this?  Be well,

J.B.

[Telby]

I am going through home-detox and when I start to weaken I think about you and how brave you are.  Then I'm not afraid anymore. As always you and your family are in my thoughts,in my heart and on my mind.  love, telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Oh, the joys of home detox!  I know what that's all about.  It isn't too horrible an experience if you are prepared for it mentally. I've been off of morphine for about thirty days and things seem to be clearing up in my brain. I used Darvoset to help me through the rough parts. The major point is that I haven't let myself go downhill as far as I used to before going on a "drug vacation", as Skipper puts it.

Posts like your's help me stay focused. I am grateful for all the strength here on this board.

J.B.

[jennyfla]

Good luck with your detox Kip, you amaze me with how you can do that over and over...  I'm gonna keep you in my thoughts when i get the guts to finally do it!!!
Telby, Good luck, i hope everything is going ok with your detox sweetie.  Just hang in there, with each passing minute you are that much closer to freedom.
JB, I can't imagine you and your wife's pain with loosing a child.  I love my three children 'too' much sometimes, it can even get painful if that makes sense.  The pain of loosing a child is beyond my ability to even conceive!  My heart cries for you and your wife right now.  You two are very special people together! :)
Lv Jenny

[Telby]

It sounds like the mid west is in for a few more Spring type days so enjoy.  You are as always in my thoughts, hope your wife is feeling good and that all is well.  Much love, Telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

We got some good news for a change yesterday. My wife has a consult with the surgeon on next Thursday to schedule the operation. He thinks the kidney can be saved. In the meantime, she is being kept as painfree as possible and hates every minute of it.  Imagine that! If I were in her shoes, I'd be in la-la land and loving every moment.  My "better half" truly is my better half!

J.B.

[jennyfla]

That's great news JB, I really hope you get some positive news!!!
You may think your wife is your better half, but you're pretty special too!
Lv Jenny

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Picture this. About 9:30 this morning my wife calls and asks me to pick up a script at her doctor's office and get it filled. She couldn't break away from work to do it herself and she was hurting. Well, it was a script for 60 MS Contin! The very drug that I have been clean from. I prayed(a lot)during the two hours it took to get the job accomplished. If only she knew what she put me through? We did have a good lunch together and enjoyed a couple of glasses of wine. Now I'm at home but the struggle continues. Sometimes, it's one minute at a time! I don't feel the least bit special, just a victim of circumstance and temptation who's trying to do the right thing for a change.

Thanks for the nice compliment, Jenny!

J.B.

[jennyfla]

Oh boy that must have been tough!!!
You're a wonderful husband for being strong for your wife and picking up her script!
I think we're all a victim of circumstances, but as i always said, addicts are very special people, we are the ones who feel so deeply, sometimes this crazy world just gets to be too much!
I look in the mirror sometimes and wonder why this happened to me, why why?  Then I think about all the wonderful things in my life, especially my three beautiful children (my gifts from god).  Each one is very unique and special.  They were given to me during their short time on earth to be cared for and loved.  I do this, but it's not my best because i'm an addict and i'm ashamed of that.
I don't really know where i'm going with this, but basically, we need to be thankful for what we have (which i know you are), and not be so hard on ourselves.  Here's a great big cheer that you were able to accomplish your mission and get your wife her pills without slipping a few outta the jar!!!!!
Hang in there!  
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

JB:
my hats off to you! i'm not saying i couldn't do the same...i just
would rather not. man that had to put your head thru some changes
to pick up an Rx of god's own medicine, and then deliver it to
your wife "unsampled!"

jennyfla:
i work with a pain psychologist on a regular basis. this guy has
extensive dealing with drug addicts too (used to work for state  dept of prisions). ok so "we" had a major breakthrough about kip.
it slowly has been sinking in, this realization. what it basicly
comes down to is even though i'm a drug addict, i'm also many
other things, some good, some bad. i used to think that drug ad-
dict was the core component of kip"s personality. yes i'm still a
drug addict, but that's only part of what i am.

also: i've been learning (actually re-learning) to love myself.
this mostly involves not doing things that make me miserable. today i love myself enough to not hang around the shooting gallerys. believe or not, i actually frequented shooting gallerys and other "drug spots" after i quit using heroin. what did i get for my effort? the knowledge that even when i don't use drugs,they (the drugs) could still make me miserable.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

I'm just so darn afraid of loosing anymore of myself than i already have.
I have some wonderful qualities, I know this, but i'm afraid of this addiction just swallowing me up and then spitting out the remains, leaving me nothing to scrap back together.
I've lost touch with so many things that used to be important to me.
I guess the feeling i hate most is that i never look forward to anything.  I use to thrive with thinking, ok, we are here, and that is ok, but the strive for something more, making life even better is no longer there.  All I do is sit in fear with knowing I'm an addict, my husband's an addict, it seems things are only going to get worse and worse.  So now i have the opposite way of thinking and that is hard to deal with every day.  
I no longer look forward to the future with kidlike eyes wondering what kind of things await.  I only see sickness and sadness!  That's the hardest part of all for me!!!
But i do love myself, i love the part of me that is a great mom.  I see the love in my childrens' eyes, and I thrive on that.  I see the love in my husband's eyes that he has for me (I still she glimpes of it even through he's an addict and we don't always get along, i do know he loves me more than life itself).
The guilt and shame is what tears me down too!
You should love yourself, you're a wonderful person!!!!!
Lv Jenny

[sunny1]

HI
WAY TO GO ON THE DELIVERY OF THE DOPE!!!I WOULD HAVE HAD TO PINCH
A FEW FOR NOW AND SOME FOR A RAINY DAY...I DO NOT THINK I COULD HAVE BEEN AS STRONG AS YOU.

JENNY-
HELLO!!! THINK ABOUT IT...YOU ARE ASHAMED OF A CONDITION THAT FEEDS ON SHAME AND GUILT.  SOMETIME, EVENTUALLY...YOU HAVE TO LET THAT GO IF YOU WANT SOME PEACE.  BE PROUD YOU GAVE LIFE TO THREE KIDS, CARED FOR THEM AND ALL THAT GOES ALONG WITH DOING IT.  IT IS THE HARDEST JOB IN THE WORLD.  I HAVE SHOVELED **** IN THE HEAT OF THE DESERT AND IT DID NOT HOLD A CANDLE TO RUSHING MT CHILD TO THE HOSPITAL FOR ASMATHA, OR HAVING TO STAY UP ALL NIGHT WITH MY BABY AND ALL THE THINGS DONE TO BE A DECENT PARENT.  I HAVE TRHEE KIDS ALSO AND I KNOW I AM NOT GIVING THEM "ALL" OF ME BECAUSE OF MY ADDICTION.  BUT I GIVE WHAT I CAN!!!  IT MAY BE WORSE ON THEM IF HAD THE "NORMAL" HUMAN FRAILTIES LIKE WORKING 15 HOURS A DAY, OR HAVING AN AFFAIR,   ALWAYS DOING SPORTS, SHOPAHOLIC ETC OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD KEEP ME FROM MY KIDS.  I TRY!!! I LOVE AND I COUNT TO THEM.  CHILDREN LOVE AND FORGIVE VERY EASILY IF YOU HELP THEM TOO. ASK YOURSELF...WOULD YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD LESS IF HE WAS AN ADDICT.  NO, YOU WOULD ACTUALLY CARE A LITTLE MORE (PROBABLY) FOR THE CHILD IN NEED.  REMEMBER, WE ALL HAVE FLAWS.  OUR KIDS ARE AFFECTED BY THE ENVIRONMENT THEY ARE BROUGHT UP IN.  BUT IF YOU CAN DRAW A LINE WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR SAFETY..I MEAN-DO NOT SACRIFICE IT/DO NOT PUT THEM IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY CAN BE HARMED PHYSICALLY,  YOU CAN ALWAYS WORK ON THEIR MENTAL WELL BEING WITH LOVE AND ATTENTION AND LET THEM KNOW THEY ARE WANTED AND NEEDED.  YES, OUR ADDICTIONS ARE NO GOOD FOR THEM BUT IT IS TERRIBLE TO PUT THEM IN HARMS WAY.  THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE PRIZE.  BUT IF YOU CAN BELIEVE YOU ARE NECESSARY TO THE LIVES AND WELL BEING OF THE KIDS THEN YOU CAN START TO LET THAT GUILT AND SHAME GO.  IT IS HARD AND THE MIND WANTS TO JUMP BACK AND PLAY THE BLAME GAME SOMETIMES BUT YOU CAN OVERCOME IT.  JUST DO THE BEST YOU CAN AND IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED HELP THEN GET THAT HELP AND DO THE BEST YOU CAN.  IF YOU STUMBLE OR FALL IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE NOT LEFT THE KIDS ON A STREET CORNER WITH A DEALER WHILE YOU HAVE GONE TO DO IT UP.  PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE AND BE PROUD OF YOURSELF... MOMS ARE A-1, MINE HAD SOME MENTAL ILLNESS AND ANGER PROBLEMS AND OCCASIONALLY  BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ME BUT IT HAS NOT STOPPED ME FROM LOVING HER.  I WOULD DIE FOR HER IF NEED BE. OH, I WAS PISSED AND I AM NOT THE LITTLE BOY LOOKING FOR APPROVAL.  I JUST LEARNED TO FORGIVE OTHERS AND IT MAKES IT ALOT EASIER TO FORGIVE YOURSELF.  HER INTENTIONS WERE GOOD THE CONDITIONS SHE PUT US IN MADE IT BAS SOMETIMES BUT WE ALWAYS HAD FOOD AND CLOTHES AND A PLACE TO SLEEP AND THER WERE GOOD TIMES.  TIME WORKS WONDERS ON THE SOUL!!!LIFE IS WAY TO SHORT AND HARD TO CLOUD IT UP BY KICKING OURSELVES TOO.  GOD BLESS

[jennyfla]

Thank you, that was very sweet!
My #1 job in life is to be the best mom that i can be for my kids, and I know i am pretty close to being the best that i can.
Other moms tell me how much their children LOVE to come to my house, sleep over and hang out for the weekend, they just love my house and our family (so we can't be that bad i try to think).  If they only knew, i feel so terrible about that sometimes.  But you know what, I'm twice a mom as some moms who don't even have addictions, i can proudly say that!  Before i had my 3rd child, i told my mom that there was one more out there, i could feel it.  She told me to go ahead and try to get pregnant because that feeling will never go away.  Plus, she said, you are so darn good at it!!! :)  I even knew my little girl was a girl before we even conceived her, and i knew what she'd look like (a cross between my daughter and my son -- adorable!!!)
Anyway, thank you, and i will try to let that guilt and shame fade away and know in my heart that i do the best i can.  This is a very difficult world we all have been thrown into, and as long as we do the best we can, and are good humanbeings that treat eachother with respect, we shouldn't beat ourselves up.
:)
Lv Jenny

[sunny1]

Hi
You are on your way!!!  I see so many parents that have their kids at the bottom of the "life list" and the kids are in terrible.  I am triyng to feel better at anothers' demise but again it helps to keep things in perspective.  Life is so short.
And "like a vapor it is gone" its' said.  Do not waste your time kicking yourself.  Because you do not have it.  What if you were with a loved who was sick or one you knew was in their last stages of life...Are you going to spend time re-hashing old senseless B-S or are you going to try to make every minute last forever??? Girl,  the final stages are here but most just do not
realize it...Make your minutes count!!!! It will get better
LOL
:0)

[jennyfla]

Thanks, i'll try to stop kicking myself so much and start appreciating each day!
I'd love to have this addiction behind me so i could see the world past this fog i'm in!!!!
Good luck to you too!
Lv Jenny