Pain medication

[Dana]

I want to know why all Doctors think that if they help keep you from suffering from chronic pain by giving prescription drugs such as Vicodin or other narcotic pain relievers, they think you automatically become addicted to them. Not everyone has addictive tendencies. I had taken Vicodin for 3 years straight before moving out of town away from my understanding and sympathetic doctor whom, after numerous tests on me realized the serious problems with my spine. He had me on Vicodin for 3 years to ease my suffering. When I moved to a different state, I ran out of my pain medication and just stopped taking vicodin. NOTHING HAPPENED TO ME! NOTHING! I did not get sick, shake, sweat, vomit, turn to other drugs or alcohol..........NOTHING! I just suffered constantly with pain. I waited a few months before seeking another doctor in my new town. He treated me like a junkie and told me to take Advil. That was two years ago. Well after two years on Advil, I now suffer from easy brusing and stomach problems. So why do most doctors want to see a patient suffer instead of help them ease their pain? So.......narcotic pain medication is addicting! Big deal. In this day and age with all the new meications to help pain, it is a shame so many of us are allowed to suffer everyday of our lives. So its addicting......isnt that the patients problem anyhow? Cant the doctor at least try and see if indeed these patients show signs of addiction like going through the medication too fast and looking for refills when they shouldnt need them yet? Why cant a doctor give the patient the benefit of the doubt first?
Oh well......advil will do me just fine. I would rather take that then be treated like some drug addict. It may only help me 10% of the pain but at least I dont have to answer to someone that has no idea how I suffer and I dont have to feel like some drug addict. Please answer me.
Thank you
Dana

[paise]

The previous poster is right! Plus, Advil can cause liver damage, kidney damage, & other problems you don't want to live with all because your current doctor is a douche-bag (sorry for the crassness but I've been there too)

I have Lupus (SLE), Sjogen's, Fibromyalgia, & Osteoarthritis on top of blindness, joint disease/damage in basically every joint in my body on top of severe osteoporosis, lumbar spinal disc damage from bulging discs that are deteriorating with degenerative disc disease & degenerative arthritis in the lumbar spine, which may be moving upward in my spine. Ultimately, I will end up back in a wheelchair & this time, I won't be able to fight my way out as I have in the past b/c my left knee is giving out and the brace I use isn't helping much other than keeping it straight but the joint's blown & b/c there's a high probability I won't have enough healthy bone when the replacement wears out in 10 years from now, no orthopedic specialist will do the operation to replace my left knee joint and the same goes for my right knee joint although it is not as badly damaged as the left one.

I wear a fentanyl patch 100mcg x2 days then replace it & take oxycodone 5mg but I can take up to 10mg if needed every 6hrs for pain the patch doesn't cover, Flexeril, diazepam (Valium - for anxiety that causes hives when I get really upset & it's embarrassing to boot), along with Ambien as I've been an insomniac for as many years as I can remember (Mother says since the womb when I first began kicking & she felt it & it never stopped after I was born), and then Neurotin for the nerve pain along with Requip when needed for restless leg syndrome although it comes & goes...

I can't take Tylenol, ibuprofen, Advil, Motrin or even a baby aspirin b/c I'm having problems with my liver according to the numerous Liver Function Tests I've had these last few months or so; I'm waiting on the results of my last one along with the Autoimmune Disease Liver function Test that should tell us if my immune system is attacking my liver or if it's the accumulation of Lorcet with 10/650 (650 Tylenol part in it) or the Lorcet 10/325, which is was dropped to but didn't help my LFT tests one bit.

Find another doctor. You can't go on living like this & there's a Federal Law that states that DOCTORS MUST TREAT PAIN ADEQUATELY & APPROPRIATELY! I'm not sure where it's listed but find it & take the paper & shove it in your doc's eyes b/c obviously he didn't get the memo or didn't give a damn to take time to read it.

All my best wishes & hopes that you will be pain-free the right way very soon!

[IBKleen]

Hi Notanaddict,

This post is nearly ten years old and "Dana" is not an active member. I thought you would like to know.

Take care.

[Notanaddict]

I suffered for a long time with pain.  I went to countless psychiatrists, social workers, then finally to doctors.  Still it took me a very long time to find a doctor who cared.  You'll have to find a pain specialist and it's not real easy because you need a referral.  The best pain doctor ever, his name was Dr. Daniel Brookoff.   You can Google him.  He was smart and caring.  Unfortunately, he tried to help the whole world and had a heart attack.  He is still living but no longer practicing.  You all look up one of his speeches or conferences he spoke at.  Thanks to seeing him I was able to find a pain doctor, but he only cares about my money, not me.  Still, being physically addicted does not mean you are an addict.  Taking medication that is actually helping you is not the description of an addict.  I am a medical transcriptionist and I can tell you even those who are on pain meds for cancer and other legitimate reasons, doesn't stop the doctors from saying you are dependent on narcotics.  As my father used to say, if they ever had pain, they'd understand. Dana, find you a pain specialist.  Look up how well he is liked by others. That's a pretty good indicator.  Then see if you can't get a doctor to refer you.  Pain doctors can presribe the medication without too much worry they'll get in trouble.  Others are just afraid they'll lose their license.  

[studiogirl]

well for the purpose of the poster - it still mighr show up in a drug test as benzo.  I took ambien and was tested pos for benzos which I didnt think I took.  When they asked me I told them I took ambien and they said that was why, I wouldnt recommend AMbien or any other benzos for withdrawals considering the risk for abuse.  There are other meds that work well and dont have that narcotic effect.

[seeksolice]

Ambien is not a benzodiazepine. It's similar, as it affects the GABA receptors in your brain, but it belongs in a family of drugs called imidazopyridines. It's referred to as a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic.

I just wanted to clarify that so someone who's a benzo addict doesn't go and take ambien thinking it will help with withdrawal, when it won't do any good for a benzo user and will more than likely prolong withdrawal effects.

[studiogirl]

Hey, first I was reading this thread prior to your post and it is a real mess of questions some of which are inappropriate.  They are from 8 years ago so who knows but maybeyou should start a new post so this one can dissapear and you will get some good feedback.
SO, I was confused about one thing -- were you on Ambien when your car crashed? I have heard of that happening before and the sleep walking and not remembering  stuff sounds like it could be a problem.  ALso ambien is a benzo so that is why your drug test turned out that way.  It is a very dangerous drug and can be hard to get off.  
I understand how humiliating it is to have a doctors and nurses treat you like a criminal, it has happened to me before.  But I hope you dont mind me saying that it does seem like you are an addict.  I know you have real pain and sleep problems which makes keeping this stuff under control even harder.  If you think your file has been flagged, I would come clean with the specialist you trust.  If there is anyway to get off the Ambien, I would do it.  The sleep walking and stuff is so dangerous.  Thank God you were okay, but next time another car could be involved or worse.  Have you heard of Rozerem? It is completely non narcotic and helps a lot of people with insomnia.  

[jennatweedybird]

You all are so right about Dr.s and pain meds. I have been diagnosed with primary pulmonary hypertension, CHF, enlarged spleed and liver Low oxygen sateration levels (I am on oxygen 24/7 now) intercrainial hypertension that causes massive headaches arthritis and fibromyalgia. I also have a pacemaker for SA-AV node dysfunction that caused my heart rate to drop into the 20 and 30's. I also have low blood pressure which means I can't take any of the meds that help the primary pulmonary hypertension. Oh and in case you are wondering I am only 39. Seems this inherited.
I have run into a problem now and would like to know your opinions.
In May I was in a what I thought a minor car accident when I at that time thought I fell asleep at the wheel driving home from a singing compitition I was in. I went left of center on the expressway (thankfully there is a wide strip of grass between the two directions of traffic) I became aware enough to try and get back on the freeway and overcorrected and did 2 360's and slammed into the ditch on the other side of the road. I was the only car involved. I was taken to the ER the transferred to a hospital closer to my home. My heart was checked out and when nothing alarming showed up I was released after 2 days inpatient. The next morning I woke up and my legs were like wet noodles and I fell to the ground, I also couldn't seem to make it to the bathroom in time and a few times didn't even know I had to go to the bathroom until I felt something warm running down my legs. Thinking that this was neurological (due to hitting my head in the accident) I was sent to yet a different hospital where my neuologist works. It was there in the ER that my Low O2 levels were diagnosed along with scarring in both my lungs. I was admitted for further tests. A few days later due to low B/P and the low O2 levels I was transferred to the CCU. During this entire stay however I had been asking for Ambien which I take at home to sleep. (yes you can say I am addicted to it but I would rather say I am addicted to sleep because without the Ambien I will not sleep literally for days) I would ask Dr.s about it averytime they came in to see me but it seemed like everyone wanted someone else to say yes first and those who told me they had no problem with it seemed to have a problem writing it down in my chart.
So Like I said I was transferred and on top of no real sleep for about 5 days and having PMS I went off the deep end at about 4am. I told them I wanted to go home and unhooked myself from the moniter and demanded the catheter be pulled out. I had a picc line so it was decided to wait until my parents came (prop to see if they could talk some sense into me!!) before that was pulled out. Right after my parents arrived I remembered that I had put a few Ambien in a small case in my purse *I tend to sleepwalk and take more at night so I had split them up into about 6 different locations* I wasn't sure if I had taken them or not so I had my mom get my purse and I found that there were 4 pills there. Well I had enough and decided to take one. Just as I was putting it in my mouth I was caught by the nurse. Well she searched my property and I was properly scolded and I still keep my ambien because I was sitting on the little container and she didn't ask me to stand up. She also accused my parents of bringing me drugs. She asked me if I would be willing to take a drug screen to which I said yes and I took it. I was transferred back to the floor that day also. That afternoon while I was in the bathroom someone knocked on the door and asked for me by name. I said I would be out in a min. to hold on. She didn't and yelled thru the door that I had come up positive for benzodiazipenes on the drug screen and would that suprise me. I told her yes and was just about to open the door when I heard her say "yea right" very sarcastically. this stunned me for a second and by the time I had opened the door she was gone. The Pt's visitors in the room at the time looked at me like I was a criminal and they should consider getting there loved one away from me ASAP. I also saw a few looks coming from people in the hall. It was like there was a big neon sign above my head that said druggie!!! I was mad ! I then began looking up all of the medications I had been given by my Dr's and that the hospital and this nurse could have varified and found that one component of a medication prescribed by one of my specialists was a benzodiazepene!!! The label only said CDP and I never really looked it up. Now I am sure my chart at this hospital has me labeled a druggie.
I have been having severe headaches with dizzyness, extreme fatique and have not been sleeping even with the Ambien for about 4 days now. I really feel I need to go to the ER but I have noticed even before this that Drs are asking what has worked in the past.
Maybe it is just me being paranoid but I don't know how to answer this esp. now. Before the accident I would just really say not much but I am willing to try anything. They then ask if Vicoden or Darvocet has helped and truthfully no they haven't but my answer is always the same. I do know from past exp. it takes strong meds to get the pain under control and sometimes percocet has not even helped. Now I am afraid if I go back to this ER ( which I do only because if I am admitted they will put a picc line in immediatly saving me getting stuck multple times as I have really bad veins) I will be labeled a drug seeker and what happened in May will now forever effect treatment at this hospital.
I told every Dr I had in May what happened and most said they didn't blam me and that they would prob have done the same thing if they were in my shoes... but since they also said they didn't have a prob. with the Ambien and that never made it to my chart I little faith that any of this did either. I feel this nurse majorly violated pt confidentiality but I do not know who she is sho reporting her is next to impossable and I am afraid like I said I now will be labeled a drug seeker. I do not go to different ERs unless my Specialist works out of on specific hospital and that is who would have the most control over my care fpr the same reason. What do you guys think????

[oops.....thats me up there]

Janie, you said it soooo well.  Boy, I cant believe we have to go through this.
Paul you are too funny.
Annie

[anthony thompson]

i think the reason for the drug addict aproach from doctors is because they are the ones who are addicted to the drugs that are readily availible to them. they being the doctors ...

[master blaster]

Re: "cold shakes... Morgue... OD express.  Any narcotic in pill form is inherently much safer than, say, heroin for the "inexperienced" user.  Dosage is a sure thing and the old rule about starting at the bottom and working your way up definately applies.  Definately the way to go for "newbies" who seek greater effectiveness from their currently prescribed meds, wether it be dilaudid, oxycontin, MS contin, or methadone.                                                                             TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!!!!!!!!

[Paul]

Dana you are right! Some doctors are pathetic. Most cannot tell you what addiction means! For instance, are we not addicted to food and oxygen? We cannot live without those things just as some of us who suffer from pain problems cannot function normally without whatever medication. If it is a choice between being labeled "an addict" or suffering every single day, I 'll take my drugs and tattoo "addict" on my forehead. Most doctors are insensitive to their patients needs. Part of being a doctor is disconnecting themselves from their emotions. Some doctors are very caring but I cannot tell you how many of them are like robots.

[janie]

I have the same problem with getting pain meds. I had torn cartiledge in both knees, sciatica, a uterus the size of a 5 month pregnancy, an ovarian cyst (I finally had it removed) and I had to BEG for pain meds.

Before I had my hystorectomy, the doctor gave me a prescription for Tylenol 3.  I took it as directed.  When I called the doctor's office, the nurse said it wasn't in my chart to get it.
I wrote a nasty letter to the doctor saying "Will you please tell your staff that I'm not taking this drug for fun."  They called me and apologized and gave me the script, but look what I had to go through.

I went to a pain clinic. $750 for the first visit. 6 weeks of physical therapy at $75 a pop. $120 per shot for prednolisone.
After a year and all that expense, I was still walking with a cane.  For about $36 I could have gotten 12 months of relief, allowing me to be more mobile and perhaps improve my condition(s) but no. I finally had to write the doctor and tell him I could no longer afford the treatment.  

I have a handicap placard for my car and every once in a while, a friend who's on regular pain meds will save some for me, which I take only on the days when I really can't stand the pain anymore (usually after 4-5 days, or when it hurts during the night)

I'm sorry to be so long winded, but that's my story.

[robw]

Where can i buy some Dilaudid or  Demerol?

[Von]

I know exactly what you mean about pain meds and the stigma associated with them.  I'm fortunate to have a doctor who refuses to succumb to the "opiaphobia" many doctors have about prescribing pain meds.  My doctor says that so many people are undertreated because of this stigma and paranoia about prescribing pain meds that actually work.  I have taken Vicodin ES for 3 years, and have no plans to go off of them.  I just hope and pray I don't find myself in a situation like you experienced, having to find a new doctor.  I know I'd have trouble finding a doctor to prescribe what I've been on for years, and it's very unfair.  It's ridiculous that you have to take OTC drugs for your condition.  Have you tried seeking out another doctor?  I hope that you can find a more reasonable physician, people shouldn't have to suffer when there are so many effective pain meds out there.  And no one should be treated like a drug addict just because they take pain medication.  My God, why make the drugs if people can't access them?

[Mike P. to Vic Gurrl and tom]

I apologize for coming on like a fiend if I did...I have read numerous times how much you like Vicodin - I have those...they're "ok" for the pain...sometimes I wish I has something stronger for days that I want to rip my spine out...Yeah, knock me out, whatever...just make it stop...I've never even tried Dilaudid...my aunt gets Dilaudid suppositories for her fibromyalgia and she says they only work slightly better than her Percoset...I honestly didn't mean to come off seedy, or back-alley drug deal...Just thinking, like tom said, out loud...I have what you need and you have something I'd love to have on hand...I don't take any offense to your not wanting to. Honestly - Nothing ventured nothing gained. You don't know who I am anyway, and that is obviously a problem. If you saw me - Long hair, tattoos, Harley the works...you'd say - "Oh yeah, doper..." But looks are deceiving. I'm actually a college grad with a highly respectable job (not that that makes someone NOT a doper)...just a bad back and sever adhesions on my side from intestinal surgery. I know - you don't give a ****...:) but I did want to kind of explain myself after I read my post and your response. Like I said when I posted...don't take it the wrong way...It was just the old story of "I've got fire and you have beef...Let's have dinner" kind of thing. Thanks for not biting my head off. If anything, don't throw them away, in case you change your mind:) - but THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that no one else has mentioned - don't take them if you don't like them...they will increase your tolerance for opiates 20 fold. Your Vicodin will seem like aspirin after 15 or 20 doses of Dilaudid and you won't have anything that helps you. Really. If it doesn't work for you pain-wise, it'll do more harm to you tolerance wise than good. Just some helpful advice there. Thanks for understanding me...I hope...

Hey tom - did you get my e-mail? I mailed you at patflann...you know the rest...I wasn't sure if the account was still active...but if it is I'd like to hear from you...You know, I was thinking - Propoxyphene, Darvon, I've been told is in the same family as Methadone...So in essence...you've kind of been doing the MMT treatment accidentally...probably helping yourself even at 16 a day Mg's wise over the Methadone...If taking the Darvon doesn't end your cravings for opiates, I'd say it's still a definite mental thing...the Darvon, since it's in the same family and is a much longer acting opiod than say Hydrocodone...you may do yourself a favor and just stick with that...I only butt my nose in because I've read your interest in MMT to Dan...And maybe he can help here. If Darvon is in the same family as Methadone...and say 65mg's of Darvon = 3 milligrams of Methadone or something...you may be able to save yourself some money etc. OR if the Darvon "therapy" isn't working for you to begin with - what's to say that Methadone will do anything more? Especially if it turns out MG wise to be a stronger opiate that what you are taking...Might turn out to be counter-productive for you - actually increasing your opiate intake over the Darvon...Something to think about...Tell me to shut up and mind my own business though if I'm intruding...Really...Thanks all for the ear - Mike

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Well, here's the story...As I said before,I have HORRIBLE migraines...have for years...have tried practically every therapy available, massage, relaxation techniques, ALL of the "triptans" (a class of drug normally very effective for migraine) as well as calcium channel blockers, beta blockers, etc...I also have an active RX for Butalbutal (Fiorinal) and Midrin. NOTHING works.  I was getting to the point that I was frequenting the clinics and the ER at leat 2x weekly for Demerol/Phenergan injections.  Demerol is a nasty drug. I have permanant lumps under the skin in my hips from receiving so many injections. I met with my doctor and informed her that I no longer wanted Demerol and she really had nothing more to offer me.  Two days later, I had a whopper of a headache.  My sweety poor guy, so supportive) took me AGAIN to the ER where we waited an agonlizing 2 hours to be seen (and I am an RN at this hospital...guess it isnt really all about who you know!). By the time I got in to see the doc I was coming unglued from the pain.  I refused Demerol and asked for morphine.  He told me it isnt very effective IM, and offered me the Dilaudid injection as this headache had been lingering for 6 days. You heard the rest in my previous post. Then he referred me to the pain clinic and gave me the Dilaudid pills to take home in the meantime (WHY hadn't someone referred me to the pain clinic before this???).  He was an AWESOME doc, didnt treat me like a "drug seeker" and didnt make me answer 500 questions before he treated my pain.  Too bad they aren't all like him.  Anyway...thanks for listening.  And thanks for the advice Tom and J.B.  Take care folks...

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Well, don't think I really want to get into drug dealing/trading, etc... at this point, sorry to disappoint.  Far as I can tell, these Dilaudid pills aren't doing crapola for me except nauseating the hell outta me. Dont seem to really be relieving my pain either.  How can that be?? From what I have heard today this is the strongest painkiller on the market...Am I screwed or what?  Honestly, Vicodin works much better for me and without the added benfit of massive nausea! Talk to y'all later...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've had Dialudid IM and oral and didn't much care for it either. I also got nauseated pretty bad and nodded out frequently. I was a total veggie!  I was used to morphine and at least I could function well on it.
Dilaudid is very similar to heroine in my opinion as far as strength of painkilling effect.
I think that if you are used to hydrocodone, you should stick with it. Just my opinion.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

In Germany they were called "cold shakes" as they would readily melt in cold water- get the picture? Not that I would ever do such a thing but I have witnessed it. Left to the inexperienced the cold shake tablets could end you up in the morgue via OD express!

[tom to Vic Gurrl]

ever see the movie Drugstore Cowboy? Dilaudid was portrayed as the narc or all narcs, better than morphine, demerol or even heroin. Of course, they were mainlining the stuff, which I understand makes all the difference with Dilaudid. I had a pill rx for the stuff once, but it did nothing but nauseate me and bring on a terrible, protracted headache. I hated Dilaudid in the pill form. Other people have said the same thing. I'm really surprised you got an rx for Dilaudid at all, Vic Gurrl, especially from an ER. I know there are some heroin junkies out there that would gladly take them off your hands.

Since they're pure Dilaudid, I imagine you could pulverize a modest amount and snort it, just to see if the stuff had less side effects when it didn't have to go through your digestive tract to get into your bloodstream. As long as you were careful with the dosage, what harm would there be? I mean, it has been prescribed to you. I know that oxycontin is great snorted.

Don't get me wrong, though. I haven't done this and am only thinking out loud. Do what you think is wise.

[Mike P. to Ken]

You know...this is the pain sufferer/addict in me saying this...but I'll trade you 2 for 1 in your favor Lortab 7.5's for your Dilaudid. Call it obnoxious or whatever but sometimes to get my back/adhesions to settle down and me some sleep - I have to take 4-5 Lortabs...Not great on the liver everyday...One of what you have, as a reserve would be beyond my wildest dreams when I'm in dire pain...And I'm not kidding. Of course, a drug that strong isn't really "fun" it kills the pain and knocks you out...but sometimes that's the best thing. I hope you don't take my offer the wrong way...but it drives me crazy sometimes knowing that the correct drugs for my pain are out there while I'm taking what someone else might need that doesn't necessarily work for me...or works better for someone else...I doubt you're up for this...but it never hurts to ask - right? And by the way - I'm not a cop:) Vicodin gurrl - maybe we can make each other happy? I know - pathetic plea on an internet board...Mike P.

P.S. - don't jump on me because this isn't the place for blah blah blah...I don't talk about this to anyone else, anywhere else - so YES it is the place to talk about it.

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Hi Tom, yes, I keyed in to that, never fear, hence my interest in additional information...Anyway, I get my meds from legit sources (ie my doc) so havent yet had to turn to such methods thankfully!

So last night I went to the ER with yet ANOTHER horrible migraine(have CHRONIC, intractable in most cases migraines) which had been going on for about 5-6 days. (That is how I got into this whole pain medication mess in the first place) and I was given Dilauded (Hydromorphone) 4mg IM. Wow, that knocked me on my ass!  I didn't like it AT ALL. Made me throw up about 4 times, plus I couldn't walk straight and was hallucinating.  It sucked.  Have any of you ever has this medication for pain?  Anyway, the doc gave me an Rx for these pills, and I want to know if the same  things will occur with the pills.  I want to take them for pain, but don't want to wind up sitting up all night scratching and brushing away bugs that are landing on me!  :)

Any info would be greatly appreciated!  Peace...

[Gina]

We are all ears! Please let us in on your secret.

[tom to Amy, Vic girl]

I hope you're not going to make a narcotics connection over the internet! At least get a semi-anon hotmail account under an alias first.