Pain or Addiction Calling??

[triedeverymed]

I was looking at the boards and almost fell over when I saw how many people had a real "problem" thay have some sort of injury, ibuprofen doesn't help, they can't see a doctor, they are in HORRIBLE pain, and the only thing they can think to do is take the narcotic they are addicted to.
I guess I've heard this so many times, I'm an addict too 4 yrs. sober, I said the same things. But seriously people, why post the question looking for an OK to take your drug of choice when you know you will take it anyway? If you really want to get and stay clean, ask that in a post. We have so many people on here who can point you in the right direction. I think those of us who are wanting to help need to stop validating the excuses we are hearing and send them some solutions. Such as the Suboxone program. The posts I have read, most people have no money to see a doctor but somehow have a supply of narcotics?
So next time you have a pain issue and need a pain pill, take it, don't post for validation. It will not help you get sober. If sobriety is what you are looking for, please ask, you will have morre help & support than you can imagine.
I'm not trying to be mean, harsh, maybe because I needed to get HONEST before I could get sober. If you are struggling and need help, ASK US. It's just so sad to read a bunch of posts with more excuses than you could possibly add up.
Sobriety is possible but you must be ready first, if your not ready, it's OK, just don't ask other addicts and former addicts to tell you it's OK to continue the addictive behavior.
God Bless All who need help!!

[joann1975]

Good point. Thanks for the post !

[triedeverymed]

Thanks for seeing my point, after I hit post I thought "oh boy, some people are going to think I'm really mean". I actually really care for people and I hate to see them fooling themselves like I did for so many years. I lost so much of my life to pills, it's such a shame.
Thanks

[confused456]

There is a part of me that agrees and a part of me that disagrees. I recall people that have needed narcotics after surgeries, for kidney stones, etc. There are times in peoples lives that a narcotic is the only relief that they may get and because we are addicts, ppl say, OH NO, you can NEVER take any again! Well, maybe my opinion is different because I took my medicine AS prescribed, never more than prescribed, but there are times when we all might need it.

[beck25752003]

great post girl, you are so right. there are so many here for help and real help. and others i can tell are falling and want us to tell them it ok. well i just pass them post and go to the next and see if i can help someone who really is ready. you have helped me and i thank you. i also hope you are doing well from your surgery. i left ya a note today but my computer was going crazy and alot of folks told me they didnt get it. you have been in my prayers, and dont feel mean you are right,
beck

[joann1975]

Well, I think surgery is a whole different thing. I didn't take my pills as rx'd. I would take 3 for a freakin hang nail.... I never tried just a tylenol for something after I got addicted. Hydrocodone for everything....bad mood, hangnail, sore toe....you get what I am saying. So we are all different and will continue to react differently. I know I will have future surgeries and that scares me b/c I don't want the meds. But my hubby will just have to dole them out then flush them when I don't need them anymore. I will have to tolerate some pain at some point!

[triedeverymed]

I know what you mean, those aren't the folks I'm talking about. Het I had surgery and needed a narcotic too. I just see some people who really could find another option but are only asking us if they can take a pill. If they are prescribed I'm right there with you, absolutely. I just hate to see someone tell somebody to take a pill because their back hurts and then the next day we never hear from them again. Do you follow what I'm saying? I do agree with you though. I don't believe addicts can never successfully take a narcotic and move on after there medical problem is gone. Ive done it so I know it can be done. I just feel bad for those who seem to want to quit but then get a green light to take that pill they have stashed away without talking to a doctor. You know, we all have the excuses down pretty good. I sure did!! Thanks sor you input! You're great!

[confused456]

I agree that we are all different but to ASSUME that someone is not being honest or whatever, I don't know, maybe I am too naive....LOL.....but I just look at it as i don't know their pain. I posted for my sun burn and was not looking for permission, just was letting my friends know that if it got to that point, that is what I was going to do. I remember someone saying that they had the same surgery as someone else and did not need meds. but then someone else said they did. It is how one can tolerate pain, etc.......anyways, I know some are looking for permission but I just don't think ALL are. Only my opinion. Night all.

[confused456]

LOL.....I just read your response AFTER I wrote again!! I am glad that we agree that their are two separate "groups" we are speaking about!! LOL...that is all I was trying to say!! You are too sweet!! Have a great night everyone!

[triedeverymed]

You'll be fine. I had my hubby hold the pills and took as directed. I set a personal goal of 2 days on pain meds. My surgery was not particularly painful either. I admit day 3 was rough at first and tylenol wasn't a great help but it did give relief. I used to take 45 pills a day for a hang nail so I know where your coming from. Like I said earlier, we all know the excuses, **** we used them for so long and got really creative.
See you have a plan, you'll do fine and if you tell your doc like I did, he knew not to refill. I didn't accidently drop the bottle and the dog ate the pills-LOL, that one worked once!
I'm here for you when you need those surgeries if you ever need to talk.

[triedeverymed]

Oh honey I wasn't referring to you sunburn. I live in AZ, I've had sunburns I went to the ER for. You can get really sick from a bad sunburn. I was going back through a couple months worth of posts when I saw the trend. You've been here long enough, you want to be clean. And you're right we can't feel someone else's pain, there are just some people I don't want to give permission to die. I've seen it happen on accident, it's horrible and it always starts with just a few pills-you know?
How are you feeling, if you start to get a fever and sick to your stomach, you should see the doc tomorrrow you could have sun poisoning, that's what I had. It was scary. I hope it's better tomorrow. Wear your sunscreen!! OK I'm done being a MOM, sorry.LOL

[kimmieb]

i am in total and complete agreement with your original post....you are right on the money about it....many (not all, but many) ARE looking for validation....and don't maybe realize that they're not gonna get it here, for the most part....no way....not when most are fighting for their lives and trying every single day to think of something ELSE to take (besides narcotics) even for semi-severe types of pain....so anyway, i just wanted to say an "amen" to  your post....you didn't sound mean or harsh....just honest and right on the money

as far as surgery, that's a no brainer, too....i had a complete hysterectomy (and some reconstructive surgery) a little over a year ago....was prescribed one week's worth of percocets....took them for MAYBE 5 days at the most....that was it....if you need them and they're prescribed, then take them as prescribed....if not, don't take them....and for God's sake, don't ask for more refills and take them for longer than absolutely necessary (and that line is definitely blurred for addicts, that's for sure!)

great post and great honest insights....thanks so much for sharing!

blessings....
kim

[SableZen]

This is my pure opinion... so it's best to skip reading it. TM

I call shennanigans going on both sides of the argument... and think the truth is somewhere in-between with most of the posts we see. There has to be some allowance made from people on both sides of the issue to see the other side. As an addict, I think anyone that can't/won't see some of the other side to things and isn't preparing for it is just setting themselves up for failure.

I've seen way too many grown, tough men that think they are invincible be brought to tears, curled up in a fetal position crying and vomiting from pain by the damndest things you wouldn't even think of as being severe. It's just a part of life that no one is immune to. And not to have to suffer in excruciating pain is not a right or an entitlement. But pain, when it really hits is not ignorable, and it can kill even kill you indirectly. Extreme example? Or just reality?

[SableZen]

That said... TM

I completely see and agree with what you are saying too in the original post. I mean what you said IS dead-on and truthful from that perspective. Sheesh. I don't know - should just keep my mouth closed. lol

[confused456]

LOL....I was HOPING that you weren't referring to me, LOL, but even if you were, I am happy to say that I didn't resort to pills even though it HURT like no other....LOL
It is getting better each day but I have been able to stay out of the sun for the most part or at least make sure that the burn is covered if I am outside for any amount of time. My shoulders and up my neck actually got it the worst. That part is still very sensitive to the touch and still hurts really bad but I can manage with Motrin.

As for the post, I already stated my thoughts on it and I was thinking and I read this in another post so it isn't even my thought originally but I thought it was a good point:
As addicts, would one really come and look for validation to relapse or would they just do it and then take a leave of absence for a while from the forum? I have seen some that are so ashamed that they do leave and when (if) they come back, they all say that they were too ashamed to stay here even though they regret it because they get great support. I DO think that some will say that they have massive pain but it is not as massive as their addict brain thinks it is. It is very hard for me to decide really how I am feeling on this now because there are so many ways to think about it or look at it and I was thinking that if I personally "wanted" to relapse, I would just do it and honestly do not think I would post or be back until I was ready to get back on track. I THINK I would feel like I have seen a lot feel. I would be ashamed in knowing that I made the wrong choice but yet it was my choice.....AHHH crapola! I am confusing myself more so I am going to shut up now!! LOL

[lady67]

I don't know if it is a girl thing or what.  I am the same way.  Anytime something would be the slightest inconvience, i wanted to pop a pill.  Not matter what the reason, good day/bad day, too much sleep/not enough sleep, etc.  My husband works like a dog and doesn't even take anything for a headache, but when he got a kidney stone several years back, (at the height of my addiction) I saw that "grown man reduced to tears" curled up on the bathroom floor vomiting and writhing in pain.  Was I sympathetic, yes, but for the wrong reason.  I knew that he would get passed the stone in a few days and probably have a supply of pain pills left.  Whoopie.....for ......me.  Thinking back on that almost makes me want to cry.  How could I let my heart get so cold and hard that I didn't care if someone was in pain or not.

Well guys, I don't really know if this fits here but what the heck.  Today is day 5 and counting....:)
  

[confused456]

Lady: Congrats on 5 days!!

[worried878]

Yey...maybe it would be better to say that i want a dern pill! instead of stating a random pain issue to go along with it...it is ok, i hope, to want to cave and use and to ask for support to keep myself from using ...craving is part of the process ..if i throw in a hurt knee or my chronic back pain, and back pain for me will always be there so i have a ready made excuse...sometimes we want it so bad we come up with an excuse/real or not real/ to make it ok within our own mind and add it to our post..perhaps to make it ok with everyone else but really it is convincing ourselves that it is ok...and for most it is not ok...and no one is gonna say it is ok....then again when someone is facing surgery where they will have to receive narcs for recovery...it is a real dilemma and they need support to use responsibly for a week or so....they are not asking permission as it is something that may have to be done short term for recovery...it is when u see a post where it is kinda obvious someone is trumping something up to use..old behavior shining thru...it is that old manipulative addict behavior that i know so well from being an addict myself....and since the people on here can see right thru it because they know the behavior very well...it just aint gonna get u very far

[sadinmichigan]

hey there girl!! I agree with your post too..of course it is not a "one fits all" category but I think some things are very obvious..I don't quite understand the need to post and say...I might take a pain killer.(not you confused) .those kind of posts have been very frequent. It is a fine line and I guess we also just need to realize that slipping up/relapsing etc..is part of addiction that everyone of us have had to deal with .I think some people are scared of the reactions they are going to get when they do..but it happens alot more often than not until we get it right.I think all we can do is give each other the best advice we can regardless..

[opiaddi7]

I take pain killers because I don't like pain, I hate pain.  I also take them for the feeling they give me on top of the pain relief.  I take them for pain and for a buzz.  I would rather be on them then off them, I feel better, more able to function...it is horrible.  I have been previously addicted, and then got off them for about a year.  I had surgery six months ago and have been taking them since, I should have stopped after the immediate severe pain but I didn't.  I have slowly weened over the last 2 weeks and yesterday morning was my last dose of 1 7.5 and 1 5 mg pill together.  I FEEL LIKE DYING.  Withdrawals are truly horrible, suffering is horrible, and the pain (whether it's phantom/imaginary or not) is bad.  I know it will be easier after about day 3, but I just feel like I can't handle it.  I don't think I will be able to work properly.  I will be sweating, nervous, in pain, diarrhea every hour, stomach cramps, shivers, chills, headaches, charley horses in my legs.  Truthfully I am probably going to go get some more tommorow.  I have done good trying to get off them, but I think I really like being on them more than being off them.  Today after about 3pm it started to get bad, I went and drank (idiot thinking it would help) and I was able to pass out for about 6 hrs, but then I felt worse.  I know I should go see a doc and maybe get suboxone but seriously I would almost rather just continue my addiction.

[confused456]

OK, so this has been driving me crazy...LMFAO....and now I am also thinking:
What if someone has a craving and don't really know how to word it and so they make a post like, "my ankle got twisted and I need a pill" (or whatever) and they actually are not looking for validation to use but they are looking for someone to say to them, "Hey we all have pain and you need to try Motrin or Advil or whatever and stay off the pills".....I mean there are times when I have had BAD cravings and have not posted or not wanted to post because I just wasn't sure what to say.

I KNOW that this is not what your original point was or anything, I am just thinking hard about this for some reason now and I have been clean over 3 months and feel VERY good about that fact and do not want to look back, and I don't want anyone to think I am saying this because I am feeling like I personally want to use, NOT why I am saying this at all, I am just thinking "out loud" so to speak and have no point maybe but I just hate the thought that we may "skip over" a "cry for help and support" just because WE as addicts feel like this one person is BS'ing us when maybe they aren't........

[sadinmichigan]

and your point is....why post about it and just go take them if that is what you already decided....

[sadinmichigan]

I understand what your saying..I could see why some may not have the right words or even the guts to post sometimes with some of the "attitudes' ex-addicts can get..I think we all need support....I think we all can jump the gun on that one..lol   There are certain posts that do seem pointless..such as the one above from Oppiaddi....I know I do not want to be a daily user again but if there is legit pain...which for me personally is when my back goes out and I can't walk..i will take something if I need to..Thankfully i only had to 2 times and the soma i have been taking have helped alot..I do not suffer from chronic back pain and haven't learned how to deal with it..some can..some can't..
love ya

[opiaddicted77]

You may think it is pointless, but I have noone to talk to about this right now and I needed to vent and get my feelings out so f off if you have a problem with it because who are you to decide if my post is pointless, pointless in your OPINION.  You use drugs still, if people need to come here for help, you should be supportive in all cases and yeah ex-addicts alot of times have attitudes and they need to get off their high horses and shove it.  Just because they haven't used drugs for however long doesn't neccessarily make them any better or healthier than someone who does.  WTF is with the 'oh i dont want to be a user but what if i have pain'  Sounds like BS and you don't suffer from chronic back pain? and you haven't learned how to deal with it?  hmm...makes sense.  Maybe read your posts before you post them?

[confused456]

Sorry if you feel judged. No one should be judged by posting here and if you are reaching out and have no one to talk to, PLEASE know that you CAN talk to us, INCLUDING sadinmichigan. She probably got defensive because you stated that you like taking them in the beginning of your post and we have a hard time daily making that choice not to use. Please talk to us whenever you need to. We are here to help any way that we can.

[confused456]

By the way, I am not trying to put words in sad's mouth, it's just that I have talked to her often and I really don't think she meant it exactly how it was written or else she may be having a $hit day and you were the one who she let off steam to. I am not sure, just my own thoughts.....

[theeagle]

Well i have had to suck up a lot of things in this life pain wise....too many to list and some will be here as long as I am. I have been the whole route from taking as rx'd responsibly and then escalating in spurts up to 20-30 10mg hydro's toward the end this time. Not a pain pill in the PDR that I havent tried. Currently I am close to a year sober - maybe 25 pills in that year  - and I call that a win - and I like my situation more than before....even if the physical side has been deteriorating - - it's just poor luck to have problems that aren't yet able to be successfuly addressed by the medical community - such as long term pain control for people like us.....

[mr.lucky66]

I have been is a few situations where I had to take narcotics and I'm an ex-junkie. I had surgery and pain before surgery and took some narcotics for a few days for a few times. I'm not advocating it and if you can get by anyway without it, do it. I don't like people who talk in absolute terms, like an addicts can NEVER take a narcotic again. Sometimes you don't have to suffer and need safeguards in place. I'm glad that I can deal with my nagging cervical disc pain without dope now and hope I can continue to do so. all the best

[triedeverymed]

To skip reading your post would a complete contradiction of my reason for posting in the first place. I wanted to create a topic we could wrap ourselves around and see the passion on both sides of the fence. I appreciate your opinon, thank you for taking the time to write it. Pain isn't so muc of the point I was bringing up, it was the validation people wanted to take narcotics. Some folks have friends on here and they post, "hey , I'm in pain and I'm taking a pain killer". Those folks are just being honest, not asking for permission, simply stating fact and moving on knowing they wer honest about their actions. I'm trying to get to the root of why as addicts (including me) do we feel we need to have somemone say "OK you poor thing, you take your pills", just take them?
I'm so excited reading your responses because we all are so passionate about our view point on this issue. Keep your ideas coming. It's helping me understand the very complicated brain of an addict-like myself!!
Thanks SableZen

[triedeverymed]

You know, I've seen friends leave here to get high and then come back when they are ready to try again, I've seen some who are not sober but want to be and try day after day after relapsing, them some share the stuggle online. It's a personal decision. It's justt so interesting to me that as addicts we want someone to say it's OK to use, maybe that means we aren't ready. Then you are another example of someone who fights this everyday and if you are going to take a pill for something, you get honest and let your friends know your plan. I like that one the best. Because nobody can fault an addict wanting to get better. I tried to quit for so many years, I couldn't even give you a number but if I had MedHelp back then I think it would have been easier!!

[SableZen]

quoting:

"OK, so this has been driving me crazy...LMFAO....and now I am also thinking:
What if someone has a craving and don't really know how to word it and so they make a post like, "my ankle got twisted and I need a pill" (or whatever) and they actually are not looking for validation to use but they are looking for someone to say to them, "Hey we all have pain and you need to try Motrin or Advil or whatever and stay off the pills...""

-- Exactly my thoughts! Or just that a person is looking for advice to something that hurts, and if there are no alternatives given or thought about... guess what many people are going to do? Exactly the opposite of hearing "No way! Never again can you use a narcotic!" they will still use a narcotic thinking "what other alternative is there?". People have a problem and they are going to try and find a solution for it that works. Pain is a powerful motivator. And I don't think that thinking is flawed or necessarily always part of addiction... It's just being human and responding to pain.

I don't know. I see both sides of this argument and get confused. Because on the one hand I'm being told it's just part of addictive thinking... and the worrying so much about when or how it would ok to use a narcotic falls right into place with stereotypical addiction and I recognize that... but there's also a very real kernel of truth to the thought there will be times when you are going to be faces with it and it's best to have a plan.

It's just not an easy thing to answer. But I'll make myself shut up at this point.

[SableZen]

I was actually posting that response when you posted just then - so I didn't get to read it until after I had posted... So yeah I've changed my mind again: it's the addict part of us to worry about it all the time and want to say it's ok if [blank] happens. Is that thinking part of addiction? Probably. And does it help to hear that it's part of addictive thinking. Probably.

But just having those thoughts is a lot different from actually being in severe pain (kidney stone/post-surgery/etc...) and making a post wanting some help. That I don't we should beat each other up for and requires a different response other than it's addiction talking to us. Even if we don't feel like the person's actual pain problem might not be that bad. That's irrelevant and impossible to gauge. Offering alternatives to that person is helpful in any case though.

Just my ever changing opinion. lol

[Roxie64]

I hate taking my drugs. I have been in pain since '94 the doctor keep telling me it is chronic back pain and gave me darviset for 10 yrs. Then I moved to a different county and found out it was fiber myalgia, arthritis. Combined with IBS, and deteriating disc disease. Now I take 9 different pills + latralouse for my ibs. I now have hydrocordone for the rest of my life and it makes my ibs worse so i don't take it unless i am in way to move mode, in so much pain or if i know i will use the little girls room the next day. The lyrica is definitely not a pill to be taking then stop dead the next day, it can cause secures. So if you don't have to take them Please don't. Some day you will need surgery and you can't get it because you have a certain drug in your system that they can't do it because it would kill you if they did the surgery. I know there are certain drugs like a simple cough syurp, anything with iron, no advil and there are more in the drug industry I Can Not take because of the drugs the doctors have me on. Yes 75% of the time I don't hurt as much as I did before but I don't like the odds. I use to have a drink once in a while and no NONE at all. I hate drugs they screw up your systom .

So if you  don't have to Please don't take drugs.
  

[confused456]

SableZen: I am beginning to think that you and I think alike as far as this topic goes. I am not so sure that I am ever changing my mind exactly, but like you, I see both sides and although we have "addict tendencies" that does not mean that we are any different from non-addicts in the sense that we too are going to have pain sometimes that can not be relieved with Motrin, Advil, Excedrin, etc......BUT due to the fact that we have admitted to being an addict I think that is the thought that crosses other addicts minds when we say we are in pain. I get it to a point because of course we do not want to tell anyone it's OK to take a pill if you stub your big toe, that's just silly, but how do we really know what another person is truly feeling? We don't, just like Dr.'s don't and that is why they ask on a scale from 1-10, what is your pain and they have to believe we are telling the truth except in cases where they have had the "drug-seekers" and know the signs, but you get the point I hope. Now I am rambling on and on...LOL

triedeverymed, Thank you for saying that you like the fact of truth. I feel that it is VERY important to be honest with ourselves and with our friends here because if we aren't, then to me that is a sure fire way to go back to square one.

[mr.lucky66]

This isn't the place I would go for support if I need to take narcotics for serious pain. Don't get me wrong, This is a great resource for recovering addicts but not for someone suffering for severe pain. We could go on and on by what we could or should do in hypethetical situations but I think it could be an exersize in futillity. I think this board is better for dealing with addiction, cravings, support ect.

[worried878]

agree mr lucky...i would go to the chronic pain forum....asking a bunch of recovering addicts if it is ok to use just does not click

[triedeverymed]

OK now that's what i mean by HONEST! See you can take the pills to get high and we can still be here to support you if you want to quit. But it's that real honesty that  opiaddi7 showed, not asking do you think I should take this because x, y, or z? I agree with sadinmichigan too, we should be here to help. I always help no matter what the reasons because people helped me when I was making up every pain in the book, and I had some good ones! And I think mrlucky is right too. If you are suffering chronic pain, then a pain management forum would have much better answers and resources than an addiction forum.

[triedeverymed]

I think chronic pain is a whole seperate issue. It doesn't even belong here because your condition leaves you no choice but to remain on pain killers until another alternative is created. My Mom dies of Mutiple Myeloma Or better known as Bone Marrow cancer. It broke every major bone in her body, she had no choice but to remain of morphine for 2 years but if you gave her the choice of life or morphine, she would have chosen life. So I'm not talking about those who need pain meds, that's what they are for. I was simply womdering why addicts, like myself, feel the need to ask for permission from someone before they take the pills?
I saw a trend as a I went back into the posts and was curious why so many people were looking for validation online. I suppose was trying to raise a subject worthy of some debate, no that's exactly why I raised the subject.
You have ALL been very worthy of a good debate. I thank you for your input, so many people and so many points of view. I love how different we are yet as addicts something bonds us together, some common thing in our brain that says I need pills, booze, weed, whatever.

[Mikeinthesouth]

thats y i luv u like i do say it right

[kimmieb]

job well done....love your initial post and all the interesting and varied posts it created....you do have a way with words....keep 'em coming! :-)

[triedeverymed]

Thanks so much!!
Erin

[NautyOne]

This is a forum for discussion not discrimination.  I know when someone is bs'ing or looking for validation to take a pill.  If they want one they are going to take one or two or three......I don't know why they bring it here......guilt? maybe.  If I were going to take a pill or pill period.......I would keep it to myself, because I am accountable for my own actions......even if someone here told me it was ok, because I fell and hurt myself....or if they told me not to do it........ultimately I am the one that will have to face my own music.......i get what your saying and it drives me nutz when  i read it.......i just feel if you have to ask or even imply.......your doing it and there must be some kind of guilt involved in it.....dunno..........I agree......don't tell, dont' ask.

Just stick with the forum and let if be you informational guide.....

Nauty..........

Nauty..........

[triedeverymed]

This wasn't a post about discrmination, although it could hve taken that turn. I think guilt is the bigger issue. I was just amazed at how many posts there were about people asking basically should I or should I? That's not really on topic either.
I agree don't ask, don't tell, and come back if you need help. Maybe some are tripping up on the way. I supposed that's what we are here for. I also think you're right about personal acountability, I just don't want to be the one to tell someone it's OK to take that pill that could be there last, "one is too many and a thousand is never enough".
Thank you.
Erin