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Painkillers
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Painkillers

I have a friend who has been experimenting with painkillers lately, mainly hydrocone, and some tylenol #3. I was wondering what the long term affects of codeine-based pain killers such as these? I know with the tylenol #3 the acetaminophen can cause liver problems but are there any other long term or short term affects of using these types of drugs for recreational purposes? My friend has no pain he just uses them for fun, and sometimes uses them when he drinks because he says he does not need to drink as much, are there any long/short term affects of this? And how long would it take for him to become addicted and not being able to stop without experiencing withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms. He uses I think ~50-200mg (around 50mg when he drinks and between 100-200mg when he doesn't drink with them) and only does it like 2-4 times per month. He weighs like 140 pounds (not sure if that is helpful or not). Could you give me a rough estimate as to the affects of this type of usage (I know it is different person to person but just a ballpark)? I think it just might be a phase he is going through because my friends, myself included, have all experimented with drugs a decent amount, but I am just curious as to the short/long term affects of this type of usage, and how long it would take him to become addicted. Thank you for any help you can give me! As a side note I have read many of the postings at this site and I think everyone who answers these questions are true saints, thank you for being here for those in need.
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Hello, Some of your questions are difficult to answear without some background, but I'll give you some absolute's that may be helpful. Toxidity from tylonol for someone that size is I believe around 4000 to 5000 mg. But that is just an approx/and is of course subject to genetic's. Everyone is different.As far as him taking that fairly high amount is really playing with fire! I never had an adiction (addiction) to Anything and I used one thing or another for 30yrs.But narcotics are way different. I couln't put it down and ended up in Detox.I'm clean now but Now I've got this The rest of my life. I love the high also but If he has access to it and continues his "recreational use" It WILL accelrate and He almost certainly Get hooked! ITs just a queation of simple math. You need more and more to get the same effect. Plus  90 percent of Heroin users started the same way. When it reaches a certain level, It just takes over your life! All you do is wait to get High and nothing else matters! These thing I say are now theroies, Thay are Facts. Tell your friend to save himself alot of hell down the road and leave it alone. Hope I have helped somehow.   Shane
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I have not been very active here, lately, and have no other way to let you know, that I am thinking about you.  I have popped in  and out here, and noticed you haven't been around.  I hope your ok.  Just letting you know, I am think about you.  Hope all is well.

Pixie.....by the way, great post!
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You'd better tell your friend he's purchasing a quick ticket to rehab, and possibly a lifetime of being stuck in the stranglehold of addiction. Have him read this board, and see how easy it is to get hooked on narcotics-and how impossible it can be to stop. I wonder how much fun he will be having when he runs out one day, and finds himself shaking in bed-freezing cold, getting up every ten minutes so his bowels can explode, crying and praying for death.
I wonder if he would like to spend the next several years of his life not enjoying it, but in a numb, blurry eyed stupor that calls you back now matter how much you loathe it.
I'm not messing around. If I can spare one person the life robbing slow death that narcotic addiction causes, then I won't feel guilty for being so harsh today.
I am a 26 year old housewife. My son turned two today, but my mind was on my own self-loathing. I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia-a debilitating pain condition that has given me legal rights to Narcotics. I take 6 or 7 Vicoprofen 7.5 a day. I remember two years ago when I could take 3 a day and get so blazing high and have such complete pain relief that I thought God personally came to deliver me sanctuary. Now I have to take over twice that, and I'm completely dependent. I'm more sick now than I was with just the illness.  The pain re;lief is mediocre at best. There is no high left-that disappeared long ago.My head is in a fog. I've tried numerous times to stop, but the withdrawals send me reeling. I, too experimented with drugs as a teenager, but never ended up like this. And I never used this recreationally like your pal. It would seem to me that he is living with an adolescent superman complex. I mean, is this guy also screwing strangers without wearing a condom? Does he drive 20 miles over the speed limit and not wear a seatbelt? Does he play "chicken" with trains?
Do you see where I am going?
It is a pointless-POINTLESS-risk. The fun stops fast, and after that...well, read the posts here on this site.
Good luck,
Pixie
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shane's 100 percent correct about the fast progression into full-on addiction. And then, Simpsonfan, after that happens, you're no longer even in the same universe. You're obsessed with whether you're coming down or going up. It's a simple life, emotionally. It's the behavioral and logistical misadventures (and the law and the cops and jail) that have made 30 uninterruped years of pharmaceutical narcotics addiction such complete bliss for myself and all concerned.

I would add to shane's warnings by, first, confirming that you're talking hydrocodone (which comes in 5 mg to 10 mg doses). Second, your friend is drinking on top of tylenol, which can and has been deadly. Frankly, anyone, knowing what we know now, who would wash down Vicodin with whisky or whatever is frankly crazy/suicidal, or already hooked like a fish. Sorry not to be more encouraging.
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...thinking(above sp?) about you, that is. LOL
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No addict starts with 20 a day, you know what I mean?
Ask anybody that ended up in trouble, and they'll tell you that it all began with just a few here and there.
Your friend will probably respond poorly to your concerns. Especially considering the apparent casual attitude about drug use you guys have.
I'm not a puritain. I don't think you need to stop everything right now, run to church, and pray for your wicked doomed souls. :)
But don't let narcotics be a part of your recreation. They are a different breed of drug, and their reputation came from somewhere.
Maybe you could just tell your pal that you don't want to be caught with him if he's using narcotics or has them in his posession-what with the huge crackdown due to all the media hype surrounding prescription drug abuse. Just tell him you don't want that kind of trouble, and neither does he.
P
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I made a mistake with the amount he was taking he usually takes like 20 milligrams of hydrocone, and 10 when drinking. If he only does this for like a few months a couple times a month does he really at such risk for addiction? I am worried but at the same time I don't want to play mommy and tell him drugs are bad when, at least from the little i know of them, it doesn't seem like he is at risk right now? I know that this is how it starts and the usage could become more frequent and the dosage would go up, but if this level of usage (1 hydro when drinking 2 while not a couple times a month) lasts for only a few months is it really that big of a danger? I just want to know when to step in, because me stepping in when he's not doing it that much won't have the same impact if I step in when he is doing it like 10 times a month taking 5 pills each time, you know? Plus with my group of friends we usually go through periods of having a favorite drug for a few months then we stop use completely and return to drinking or maybe smoking a little pot occassionally, and then never return to the "favorite" drug again. For example for a while we did mushrooms for a few months a couple years ago and haven't done them since. I know these aren't addicted but I hope you are seeing what I'm trying to say. I'm wondering when to step in because right now it seems if I step in it will have no impact. Sorry for such a long note my words seem jumbled and im not sure my point is coming across, hope it is :) Thanks for your help so far and thanks in advance for any more replies.
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All i can say is your friend is 'playing with the devil'.
If he thinks he is having 'fun', just wait because soon he will feel as though he is in 'hell', believe me!!!!!
Narcotics are like no other drug, and you can 'just play around with them' because they won't let you.  If you take too many steps forward, it will grab hold of you and NOT LET GO!!!!  He'll have to fight with all his might to break the hold, that that is extremely hard once the hold is good and tight!  Thing is, it happens before you realize.  It's like quicksand, once your caught, you're stuck!
Please warn your friend about the dangers (although i doubt he'll believe you).  Have him read this board, that should put a damper on his 'fun' I hope!!!
Good luck!
Jenny
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I just popped in here today myself and was delighted that you were thinking of me!   I haven't even turned this computer on for a week because I've just been too busy.  I've got thirteen acres here to mow and maintain, if that tells you anyting?  

Healthwise, I do the best that I can.  Advanced liver disease makes life a bit difficult to say the least.  I hope that you are doing okay these days.  This may sound funny but I think about you, Brighty, Cindi, Tom and even Spook all the time!  J.B.
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Hey My friend.... Gosh, how funny this is,,,,I was just thinking about you today...have not seen those ol initials on here in awhile..wondering how you and Marty are doing...and Marty so very close to Mother's day..God, this is going to be hard...I can only imagine how difficult for her it is...please. my love to the both of you and have the best weekend possible...wow 13 acres.....and I ***** about the front and backyard grass.  LOL speaking of...I think I'll save my husband tonight and go out the mow the lawn my self....love your friend    cindi
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Next weekend may be hard for you as well.  I'll really be pulling for you.  Tears come so easily anymore but at least I can say they are an honest emotion for me.  Does the pain of loss ever really leave us?  It's so hard to be a human being but at least we are all in this together!  You have brightened my day considerably!  J.B.
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well, today is here, and I cannot wait for it to end..only for something else to come along....I will not dwell on my own feeling today because there are so many other people suffering on this day as well as myself...Please, tell Marty my thoughts are with her...as well as my prayers         love cin
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Hello everyone,
  I am new here, this is my first post.  I have been overwhelmed by the endearing honesty and support found in these pages.  It is comforting to know that there are people out there who care about the problem of painkillers.  I, myself am not an addict.  My mother has been the addict for the last ten years.  She has been in detox twice, suffered numerous withdrawal problems and torn our family apart.  After all of this, she is now going back to the pills that brought her to this point in the first place.  My main questions focus on the physical aspects of long time narcotic usage?  I am attempting to get some widespread coverage about this problem in the hopes that I can prevent someone else from a devestating experience with drugs.  Please post any comment you have so that I can learn as much as possible.
Thank you for listening,
Shannon
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Pixie,

Everything you post touches me so deeply.  I relate to everything you say.  You have a real gift for language!  I just wanted to say that I understand that brain fog.  I call it "the blanket over my brain".  I've had no narcotics for days now and today I have pain.  I too wasn't getting a buzz off my meds nor was I really getting pain relief - It was just making me not care as much.  It's warm outside today - yet I am wearing fleece- freezing and sweating.  Not sure why I mentioned that.  Pixie, do something nice for yourself today. You deserve it.  Make a cup of tea and relax for 5 minutes just knowing you are a good loving person.  You help me tremendously and I just wanted you to know that.  

Shannon,
I could have been your mom. Although I am a chronic pain patient and didn't choose the life of pills, I ended up there.  I've never been to rehab.  I just stopped cold turkey after about 10 or more years of chronic narcotic use.  I know what I've done to my kids.  I know I was present in body absent in spirit.  I know they resent me to some degree for not being there emotionally for them because I was wrapped up in my own cycle of pain and pills.  Mostly Pills.  
Long term narcotic usage robbed me of my emotions.  Disallowed me to feel.  Going through the motions of life - everything an excuse to take another pill.  The love I have for my kids is pure and I know I would die for them if I had to.  They are all teens now and the pills have robbed them too.  
Tears come easy now - I'm starting to feel again.  
My battle isn't won, it's just started.  I pray I can beat this and really live again.  I can only imagine how your mom feels.
I've been reading this board for ages and ages and only began posting when I made the decision to stop my meds.  The people here are the most loving and compassionate people in the world.
If anyone can give you the answers to your questions - these guys can.  
Love,
Deja
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Thank You for giving me another perspective to think upon.  Sometimes it helps one through to look at things from another perspective.  I do understand how your kids feel.  If it makes you feel any better, I am sure they love you as much as I love my mother..  I think the real problem lies in that the children feel that their parents are choosing the drug over them.  This can bring a sense of rejection that is hard to overcome.  The hardest point in my life was when I had to face my mother during detox and then sober.  It was so different.  She wanted the control of her family back and I was not going to give it to her.  I felt that I had raised my little sister and took care of my father.  Who was she to come back and suddenly want everything back to normal?  Not only that, but when she went back to the pills, we were left in the same vicious cycle.  I feel that it is important to say that I only blame my mother to a minute point.  I am aware that she makes the choice to go back to the pills and that to her the pain is very real.  But I can not justify these doctors that immediately prescribe pain pills for the slightest pain.  My family calls them "DOCS IN THE BOX".  You can go to any hole in the wall clinic and come out with whatever you want.  I know that the doctors feel that they are helping their patients, but the destruction is far worse.
Well, I have sounded off enough today, I go from utter embarrassment and shame to guilt and anger.  I hope eventually these sharp emotions will smoothe out.  I know they will and thank you to all of you who are helping by allowing this forum to exist.
God Bless,
Shannon
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I read your comment about how much of what you are taking and couldn't beleive it!  The pain you have is chronic, so why are you taking Vicoprofen?  The medication is contra-indicated in use in chronic pain.  Your MD should know this.  If he doesn't, he has no business prescribing narcotics in the first place!  A good reason why some people who become addicted is because they are prescibed the wrong medication in the first place.  Vicoprofen should be used for breakthrough pain in a chronic pain situation.  A longer acting opioid should be used in your situation.....i'm not going to list them, but there are quite a few available.  I'm currently taking Duragesic 75 for two failed back fusions.  I was taking Vicoprofen before that and it was a joke...I only take them for breakthrough now...the duragesic works good....no gi symptoms anymore.....one steady level of narcotic in your system instead of the peaks and valleys associated with short acting opioid/apap.  I feel for you, but your MD is not helping you at all.
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I take Fioricet w/ Codeine to battle migraines. IT IS SO, SO ADDICTIVE. I get a headache and the next thing I know, I'm popping pills until my prescription bottle is empty a few days later.
     Then I tell myself, "Okay, next headache, just take enough to get rid of the migraine."
     Do you know how many times I've told myself that, only to pop pill after pill, even though my headache is gone?
     What a nightmare. As most of you know from experience, painkillers hold us hostage (I've taken Vicodin and Ultram in the past) from the withdrawals to wishing the days away until the next refill.
     To anyone who thinks they can pop pills just on the weekends, you're in for a horrible surprise. Take it from me, don't ruin your life. The agony outweighs the pleasure of opiates!!!
     I'm 38. After four years of hell, I'm finally getting my life in order, but I realize I'll be spending the rest of my life, trying to stay clean. It's going to take every ounce of strength in my body.
     Warn your friend! Good luck.
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cboy -- I had to respond to your post because Fioricet is my personal "demon" also. I hardly drink, rarely touch weed, and never got hooked on any other rx -- but Fioricet is a whole other matter!
I'd love to know why you personally feel it is so attractive/addictive. For me, its pleasures didn't kick in until one morning on an empty stomach I took two (for a headache) with Valium (prescribed for an anxiety disorder). I can only describe the feeling the ensued as sheer bliss. I guess I've been chasing that particular "dragon" ever since.
I'm particularly interested to know what kinds of withdrawal symptoms you've experienced when you run out, how much you take, do you combine it with other meds, etc. Maybe we can offer each other advice to reduce potential harm from this drug. I have tried other drugs that work pretty well on migraines, so you may be interested in some of those (non-addictive). BTW, I'm 38 also!
Everyone -- I finally got up the nerve to register & post because I'm impressed (overwhelmed) by what caring, sensitive people you are. I hope I can be of help also.
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Welcome aboard! We ALL have SOMETHING in common here. I'm sure you both will have much to offer. Milo, one thing I know about is chasing the "Dragon". Been doing it for years. Once you have committed to stopping, you will get all the support in the world here.  I had an old saying that i'd tell people who would warn me about the "Dragon". I'd say: "You can only be addicted if you can't get anymore". What a load that was LOL. It was funny then, it's NOT SO FUNNY NOW. Looking back at all the wasted opportunities. cboy, you are right, you can't get away for long with just the weekends.......I'm close to a month clean now after over 30 years of many kinds of drugs. The last 10 were rx opiates. I feel better now then I have in what seems like for ever. Got my life and my faith back. Be focused and strive for that light!
In my prayers,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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Wizard, thanks for replying. Your story is one of the most encouraging on the forum. If only I could be as positive and level-headed as you are in your posts! Depression has had me in its stranglehold for so long now. But it feels good to know there's somewhere I can turn to share experiences with thoughtful, caring people.
Thanks. Milo
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Milo, I got to tell you I wasn't always positive and I'm not so sure how level headed I am (but thanks for the compliment)but depressed was a daily thing for me. I was taking a lot of hydro and oxy for pain but it seemed to work for the depression also. Tha I found out was a dream for me.I found I was depressed because I was withdrawing and didn't know it. It was the built up tolerance level of the drugs. I just couldn't ake enough.The pain was actually secondary to me. It was the high and euphoria I was chasing. Once I detoxed, after the 1st week, I found that my chronic pain was actually tolerable with none opiate measures. The depression lifted mostly too. Now, I DO have my moments when the "Dragon" whispers for sure. But along with my faith in God and the support of everyone here and at home I keep that ******* at bay. I still have my moments but they are so much easier to handle now that the initial withdrawels are over. The big fight is on now for the rest of my life to STAY off the "dragon". But hey, even if relapse happens, I will try and try again to fight it. This isn't the 1st time I've gone clean, but it is the first time I've REALLY been committed and been HONEST with myself and my wife about it. For me that is what is gonna make the difference. Depression is a very REAL thing and can be caused by many different factors. Getting to the root of it is imperative for your well being. If it's a chemical imbalance that can be treated by a good doctor. I think mine was self induced. So far so good with me. When I get weak I RUN to this board or talk to my wife. The important thing for me is to stay busy. When I do the "Dragon" whispers go away. I will pray for you as I do for me and the others. Good luck and stay focused. You've made the first step by posting. Keep us informed and lean on us when the need arises. There are wonderful "angels" here like Thomas, Cindy, Angelica, Jay Jay, Deja, JennyFla and please forgive me anyone I left out but you know who you are! The Wiz's mind isn't the steel trap it used to be LOL. Anyway, Bless you and may peace be on ya,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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Milo, one thing you said in your above post concerns me. That is you say you feel guilty about taking your prescribed meds for depression. It sounds like you have been battling deprssion for some time. Let me tell you that you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Our society has put a negative slant on mental illness yet there is millions of depressed people walking around afraid to seek treatment because of the stigma associated with it. That is just plain Bull Puckey! (like that word?) Don't ever feel guilty or ashamed of something you can not control. I wasted years not seeking help because I was ashamed and embarrassed of my addiction hiding it from my wife for most of the 27 years of our marriage.When I finally told her about a month ago, she looked at me and said Why didn't you tell me? I marriesd you in sickness and in health! And she has supported me in this fight. I could of down this a long time ago if I just would have been honest with her in the beggining. You hang in there Milo. My experience with addiction is mostly with hydro and oxy. Maybe some others can help with your questions on the drugs your taking. God Bless you!

Payne, just a short note to you. Believe me when I say that if you think you have a problem and came here searching, then chances are you do. You have been taking Darvocet for a long time but you didn't say why. Are you a pain patient or are taking it for the high? You said "I think I need help" that's a clue to me. Are you under a doctors care or getting them elswhere? 3 a day doesn't sound like much but for 20 years and everyday I'd guess there was some dependance there for sure.
Have you tried to stop before and if so what happened?
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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i have just discovered this site. i have been reading some of the comments about addiction. i am not sure, but i think i may be an addict. i have been taking darvocet for about twenty years. i never take over three a day. i also never miss a day taking them. i think i need help.
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hi  
here is my story ,just like every body body else i have abused the hydros for years off and on .i take 15 to 18 tablets of vicoden es or lortab  .i withdrawed many times and every time it
get scarier for me .right now i am going on my 48 hours and i dont really feel that bad .i have been preparing for this all week i sent my wife to her mother for 4 days along with my kids .
i have acess to the hydrocone very easily but this time i am getting off for good ,all i have to do is go to the pharmacy to get a refill but i am not going to .i have been taking the tyrosine 4000 mg and 200 mg b6 in the morning plus i have lomotil
for the runs it works great ,also for sleep at night i have valiums and xanax .i am doing really good comparing to what i have seen on this form .the only thing that is bother me is my elbows at night they hurt and twitch .i also have b complex injections made in mexico and phentrine 30 mg i take one a day for the energy it is working very good i feel almost normal ,i am alittle lazy but i can function enough to do my daily tasks .now i have tried withdrawing with out all this it is hell ......i wish every body luck and keepthe faith i have done it and if you put it in your mind you can do it too god bless you
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Thanks again, and feel free to lean on me (whether it's questions or simply venting)...I do admire your commitment to withdrawal and sobriety -- and your caring for others. Like I said, you're an inspiration to us all (and I can accept that "inspirational people" have their good days & bad days like everone...)
A quick rundown: diagnosed by multiple doctors with severe anxiety disorder, I've been on benzo's on and off (mostly on) for about 15 years --- Valium, Dalmane, Xanaz, you name it. I don't abuse them, and my Dr. & I see no reason to discontinue, but I feel guilty for taking them! I also take Zoloft for OCD & depression (works better for OCD than for depression), and the deomon Fioricet. Have you ever taken this? The worst parts are amnesia (will I remember that I wrote this?) and *extreme* anxiety upon discontinuing. Other than tapering, do you or anyone else have suggestions for minimizing the anxiety?
After reading through this forum, all I can say is *Thank God* I have never become adicted to opiates. What hell that must be. Power & Magick back 2 ya, Milo
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Thank you *so much* for your comments about not feeling guilty re taking Rx meds. My friends & co-workers thought I was on who-knows-what because I missed so many days at work -- they couldn't understand that depression + chronic physical illness could keep anyone at home in bed. I guess that's why I feel guilty -- like I'm doing something wrong, even though I know it's not wrong! Interesting that at least one of my biggest "critics" had to take an SSRI later on herself...
For the last 3 years or so, my attendance has been regular, but as Thomas said in another thread, the stigma of being a :"druggie" (whether true or not) isalways with you...Not much I can do about that, I guess. Thanks for the time and the concern, Milo
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Hi,

Check out my postings to niccee regarding all this type of thing.
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If I were hospitalized, I would feel priveleged to have you as my nurse!
This forum is the first place I've felt safe to talk about these problems, and it helps a lot that you know where I'm coming from. Your comment about people with the most skeletons  doing the most talking is dead-on! And you're right, we do need to remember to be proud of ourselves for who we are...that's something that's easy for me to forget.
I just hope I'm able to contribute to this forum in even a small way compared to the help you've all brought me already.
Milo
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I have had the stigma of being the 'druggie" nurse for a long time....now everyone thinks I lost my license because of it...Not true  I quit voluntarily...could not handle the narcotics....still have a license but i have choosen to teach toddlers in a pre school...I was a very good nurse,,,commendations etc...(pat pat) LOL  but I ant to be a better mom for my kids, waife to my husband and teacher to my babies...not someone's johnny mop victim in the women's prison and that's where I was heading...12 felonies...not fun...i was plastered all over the news  they wanted me to be an "example"  but my mom told me to hle my head up...everyone has skeletons....and the ones with the most skeletons will talk...Milo,  be proud of who you are...there is no shame with being an addict  it has made me a much wiser better person...love to all      cin.          AKA druggie nurse...
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Everyone has a story,,,and each person here can offer something,,experience, strength, hopes, dreams and anything else...we all come from somewhere different, west, east , but we all have one thing in common,,, addiction, pain and suffering, and who knows but one small word from someone may change another person's whole entire outlook or it may change that's person's life completely....please don't ever doubt that you can help someone here,  when my mom first died I came here looking for something....I felt I had nothing to offer so I just went on babbling about my own problems until a few people popped up and said that I may not even know it but I helped them in one way or another...and they actually thanked me....I still don't know what I did or said but I'm glad I could have been of some help.....and you have helped in more ways than you know......love to all   cin   PS  Thank you for your kind and warm words......
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You know what i've realized.  It's the alcoholics and the drug users that really make the 'best' people because you are what you are because you 'feel' so deeply about life.  You are a sensitive human being, and life is tough, let's face it!!!!  It is the hard, tough types that seem to skate through life without falling prey to addictions.  But do you know what, they are also the types who miss out on the biggest joys that life can bring.  We are good, sensitive human beings who have a disease of addiction.  It doesn't make us bad, in fact, it makes us all the wiser because of it.  If you are able to break through and rise above the addiction, WOWIE, we are 10x the people that these straight, non-feeling humans will ever be!!!!!!
So hold you heads-up high (stole that from cin's mom), and be proud of what you are, addict but much much much more!  And most of all, you are worth the fight of saving yourself!
Love to you both and prayers!
Jenny
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Cindi -- your last post put this whole issue into perspective so clearly and wonderfully. I should print it & put it over my desk -- "Words to Live By." Thank you!
Wizard -- I gave more thought to the guilt issue you raised from my earlier post. You're absolutely right. I've found that as I tell more people I'm on meds, more people tell me the same thing! We're all nervous until someone breaks the ice. When I began my current job, a kind, decent, wonderful co-worker was called (behind his back of course) "The Prozac King" because he openly shared his problems and attempts at a solution. That didn't exactly inspire me to be open and sharing! But I've come to respect this guy so much, and to disregard the opinions of folks who've never been down that road, that several of us have taken a proactive stance and given presentations on the effects of emotional/mental disabilities in the workplace. I was nervous as a ***** in church, but the presentations were all very well received!
Anyway, your comment made me realize I have to resolve some issues about meds. Thanks again, my friend -- Milo
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well , i just rolled out of bed and had some "mom" dreams,,,,yesterday was a bad day,,i started crying on my way to work and just kep thinking and crying all day...I wake up and come here and fell better with all of your nice words.Milo   you even cracked me up   ***** in CHURCH?   ROFLMAO.....never heard that one....off to work....thanks again to you both  love to all   cin.
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Awww sweetie, i know how you feel, i have days like that too!
I almost burst out in tears this morning, but was able to hold back.  I'm going down with my usage somewhat, and i feel some hidden emotions coming to the surface.
It's weird, i feel like i can know see the opening through to the other side, although still far off in the distance, but i can see it.
I took a bunch of the mag/zinc this morning, nearly choked to death, but i got them down, so let's see how they do.  I can feel alittle w/d coming on slowly, but let's see how bad it gets.  I think it's the alcohol that's my real drug of choice, so if i can beat that, i can beat anything.
Just give your kiddies a tight hug, and thank god for the things in life that you are thankful for!
I have a 1 yr old daughter, a 5 yr old son, and an 8 year old daughter (i swear she thinks she's a teenager), or and a 43 year old child too!  lol!!!
Today is my 15-year wedding anniversary, and i just want to cry my heart out because we are barely speaking right now.
The stresses and pressure are extradinary.  I want to get better, and he is living in a world of denial, so we are going in separate directions.  I don't know what's going to happen.
Well, now that i laid all of this on you, do you feel better?  lol!  Sorry, i get so self-involved sometimes.
Where do you live again, i forget exactly.
You're going to have your up days and your down days, but remember that the feeling doesn't last.  Find things that work for you to make it easier to deal with those times.  Focus on the good things in life, and the yucky feelings will pass.
Good luck sweetie and know that i'm hear to listen anytime you need me!
Lv Jenny
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Had to answer    Bad day today  cried alot with memories,,I am In Ohio  60 Miles SE of Cleveland  in between cleveland and Pittsburgh....nothing to do here   I am coming down to the sunshine state.....Happy anniversary anyway....I am coming up on my 8th   got married and had kids at 33....my hubby is 7 years younger than me  he is 33......We'll talk  LOL     Now for sure I gotta get the dye out.....Love to all  cin
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Thank you Milo, that is so sweet.
I talked to my husband about this one time, and it really made him feel better about himself.  He was looking at himself as some kind of evil monster, and why wasn't he stronger and able to deal with this addiction.  I explained about the 'better people theory' and how 'sensitive people actually are able to live that much more', and it brough a sense of some sort of peace on his face.  It made me happy that i could in some strange way, actually talk about it as a 'plus' for a change!
Good luck to you too, I hope you get your dreams!
Lv Jenny
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I really liked what you said about sensitive people and the toubles we have...I think you're exactly right. I worry about every little thing, while people who are doing all kinds of terrible things don't give it a second thought. A close friend, who knows me about as well as anyone, said the same thing...we feel things more deeply and have to adjust our lives accordingly.
I wish you the best with your situation. As different as our lives are, I know this is terribly hard for you. Just know you have one more person praying for you and wishing you well.
Milo
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How'd the hair come out, i bet gorgeous!!!!
I have a real good internet friend who lives in Cleveland.  Seems like a great area for some real Nice people!
I had my first baby at 30, second at 33, and third at 37; they are all perfect and wonderful children, i'm extremely lucky to have them, they mean the world to me!!  I'll send you pics via email soon, i love to show them off!! :)
Naples area is pretty, i know you'll have a lot of fun!  It's been HOT lately, some bring lots of cool clothes and suntan lotion for sure.
I'm sorry to hear about your illness, i know it must be very difficult.
I also want to say, i've never lost a parent, and just can't imagine the pain.  Whenever i think about my parents someday not being here, i just cry at the thought.
I know you must have been very special to your mom, and mothers see through what is on the exterior, they know you through your soul.  I know your mom is very proud of you, and she is watching and also there to listen to you when you are feeling sad, I truly believe that.  Let time work it's magic of making it easier to deal with your loss as time goes by; it will get easier as you allow yourself time to grieve.  Again, i am so sorry!
I hear for you with a nice comfy cyber shoulder to cry on ANYTIME!!!!  I haven't known you for too long yet, but i can tell that i like you, and that you are a wonderful person.  
Lv Jenny
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Thanks for you kindness,  I am still upset after hearing from Kerrie,  That just blew me away...I seem to take things so hard lately...anyway...I will pray for her...I have to take my daughter  Jenna to a skating party  after that around 8 or Si I'll hop on and send you some pics your way and you send me some my way..I love to see pics....I have an internet friend up around cleveland also.....talk to ya soon     Love ya   cin
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Hey girl!
I'm so sorry about Kerrie too; I really don't know her as i am fairly new to this board.  I wish her much luck with her illness.
I'm going to be brief tonight, very tired and extremely down tonight.
Not getting along with my husband at all these past few days, and he is getting harder and harder to deal with.  I really feel these drugs are taking a big toll on him physically and mentally.  He is slipping away quickly and doesn't even realize it.  He just doesn't make too much sense lately, and is extremely irritable and angry at everyone.  
He isn't tolerating the kids very well, and seems to blame everything on me.
It's getting bad, quick!
I hope your daughter had fun skating!
Lv Jenny
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Hope today is better for you....I had a really bad nght  alot of pain   now i have to go and sit through a baby shower.....can ya feel my excitement?    LOL   those are Chad from Philly's words        he is too funny... a young one......I'll hook up with ya  later   love to all   cin
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I was thinking about my ex today, I had to call him on Thursday, I told you I heard he's taking the oxy's again, on top of methadone. Anyway he wasn't very nice, he was off work and sleeping around noon, he's not feeling well. He never feels well, he's been sick for 2 years, wonder why? Anyway, he owe's me some money, said he would call Friday and come by, it's now 2am Sunday, no word? Bet he's in withdrawals again. Nevermind, all this has got me thinking about you. How is everything going with your husband, for awhile there he wasn't being kind. I thought about you and your situation, and just wondered how your doing. Are you in FL? I'm going down to see my sister over the summer, she's outside of Clearwater, maybe we can have lunch? If you want to let me know how its going. Funny, something strange is happening to me, I believe I'm letting go....I don't feel upset anymore, and I don't really miss him much, I definetly don't miss that nightmare with him. Maybe I'm getting over it? Right now I don't have any desire to see or help him. I've been really angry lately, realizing just what him and his addiction has done to me and my kids, how we almost lost everything, and all the money he got me for. Fool! That's my new nickname. I don't like him very much the last few days, wonder if it will change. Just maybe I'll be OK. Don't want to go back anymore......Love you Susan
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Hi,, I am butting in again  LOL   I just read your post and you said you think you are letting go....good for you..did you ever hear of the different stages of death and dying..ok I learned it in Nursing school  let me see if i can remember..1st step..sadness and grief,,2, denial,,3rd,anger,4th bargaining with God..5th is acceptance,,I think that's it..We go through this process with other things as well and a very dear friend who happens to  be Phd in psychology told me that we have to grieve for the breakup of a relationship/marriage wahtever..we have to mourn the loss..when I lose someone or something like that happens I go through all of the above,,finally my pain turns into denial, anger, etc..then finally I throw up my arms and have no choice but to accept things the way they are..I am not to that point yet with my mom but in other areas of my life I am there...no sense in fighting it...just accept it..it will get easier for you..remember he can trash his life but the only way he can trash yours is if you ALLOW him...we allow these thing to happen,,remember you are not responsible for his happiness...you are only responsible for your and your children's  be good to yourself you deserve it....love to you and all cindi
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Hi - you will not come totally right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.


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