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Painkillers

I have a friend who has been experimenting with painkillers lately, mainly hydrocone, and some tylenol #3. I was wondering what the long term affects of codeine-based pain killers such as these? I know with the tylenol #3 the acetaminophen can cause liver problems but are there any other long term or short term affects of using these types of drugs for recreational purposes? My friend has no pain he just uses them for fun, and sometimes uses them when he drinks because he says he does not need to drink as much, are there any long/short term affects of this? And how long would it take for him to become addicted and not being able to stop without experiencing withdrawl symptoms. He uses I think ~50-200mg (around 50mg when he drinks and between 100-200mg when he doesn't drink with them) and only does it like 2-4 times per month. He weighs like 140 pounds (not sure if that is helpful or not). Could you give me a rough estimate as to the affects of this type of usage (I know it is different person to person but just a ballpark)? I think it just might be a phase he is going through because my friends, myself included, have all experimented with drugs a decent amount, but I am just curious as to the short/long term affects of this type of usage, and how long it would take him to become addicted. Thank you for any help you can give me! As a side note I have read many of the postings at this site and I think everyone who answers these questions are true saints, thank you for being here for those in need.
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Avatar universal
Hi - you will not come totally right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.


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Avatar universal
Hi,, I am butting in again  LOL   I just read your post and you said you think you are letting go....good for you..did you ever hear of the different stages of death and dying..ok I learned it in Nursing school  let me see if i can remember..1st step..sadness and grief,,2, denial,,3rd,anger,4th bargaining with God..5th is acceptance,,I think that's it..We go through this process with other things as well and a very dear friend who happens to  be Phd in psychology told me that we have to grieve for the breakup of a relationship/marriage wahtever..we have to mourn the loss..when I lose someone or something like that happens I go through all of the above,,finally my pain turns into denial, anger, etc..then finally I throw up my arms and have no choice but to accept things the way they are..I am not to that point yet with my mom but in other areas of my life I am there...no sense in fighting it...just accept it..it will get easier for you..remember he can trash his life but the only way he can trash yours is if you ALLOW him...we allow these thing to happen,,remember you are not responsible for his happiness...you are only responsible for your and your children's  be good to yourself you deserve it....love to you and all cindi
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Avatar universal
I was thinking about my ex today, I had to call him on Thursday, I told you I heard he's taking the oxy's again, on top of methadone. Anyway he wasn't very nice, he was off work and sleeping around noon, he's not feeling well. He never feels well, he's been sick for 2 years, wonder why? Anyway, he owe's me some money, said he would call Friday and come by, it's now 2am Sunday, no word? Bet he's in withdrawals again. Nevermind, all this has got me thinking about you. How is everything going with your husband, for awhile there he wasn't being kind. I thought about you and your situation, and just wondered how your doing. Are you in FL? I'm going down to see my sister over the summer, she's outside of Clearwater, maybe we can have lunch? If you want to let me know how its going. Funny, something strange is happening to me, I believe I'm letting go....I don't feel upset anymore, and I don't really miss him much, I definetly don't miss that nightmare with him. Maybe I'm getting over it? Right now I don't have any desire to see or help him. I've been really angry lately, realizing just what him and his addiction has done to me and my kids, how we almost lost everything, and all the money he got me for. Fool! That's my new nickname. I don't like him very much the last few days, wonder if it will change. Just maybe I'll be OK. Don't want to go back anymore......Love you Susan
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Avatar universal
Hey girl!
I'm so sorry about Kerrie too; I really don't know her as i am fairly new to this board.  I wish her much luck with her illness.
I'm going to be brief tonight, very tired and extremely down tonight.
Not getting along with my husband at all these past few days, and he is getting harder and harder to deal with.  I really feel these drugs are taking a big toll on him physically and mentally.  He is slipping away quickly and doesn't even realize it.  He just doesn't make too much sense lately, and is extremely irritable and angry at everyone.  
He isn't tolerating the kids very well, and seems to blame everything on me.
It's getting bad, quick!
I hope your daughter had fun skating!
Lv Jenny
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Avatar universal
Hope today is better for you....I had a really bad nght  alot of pain   now i have to go and sit through a baby shower.....can ya feel my excitement?    LOL   those are Chad from Philly's words        he is too funny... a young one......I'll hook up with ya  later   love to all   cin
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Avatar universal
How'd the hair come out, i bet gorgeous!!!!
I have a real good internet friend who lives in Cleveland.  Seems like a great area for some real Nice people!
I had my first baby at 30, second at 33, and third at 37; they are all perfect and wonderful children, i'm extremely lucky to have them, they mean the world to me!!  I'll send you pics via email soon, i love to show them off!! :)
Naples area is pretty, i know you'll have a lot of fun!  It's been HOT lately, some bring lots of cool clothes and suntan lotion for sure.
I'm sorry to hear about your illness, i know it must be very difficult.
I also want to say, i've never lost a parent, and just can't imagine the pain.  Whenever i think about my parents someday not being here, i just cry at the thought.
I know you must have been very special to your mom, and mothers see through what is on the exterior, they know you through your soul.  I know your mom is very proud of you, and she is watching and also there to listen to you when you are feeling sad, I truly believe that.  Let time work it's magic of making it easier to deal with your loss as time goes by; it will get easier as you allow yourself time to grieve.  Again, i am so sorry!
I hear for you with a nice comfy cyber shoulder to cry on ANYTIME!!!!  I haven't known you for too long yet, but i can tell that i like you, and that you are a wonderful person.  
Lv Jenny
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Avatar universal
Thanks for you kindness,  I am still upset after hearing from Kerrie,  That just blew me away...I seem to take things so hard lately...anyway...I will pray for her...I have to take my daughter  Jenna to a skating party  after that around 8 or Si I'll hop on and send you some pics your way and you send me some my way..I love to see pics....I have an internet friend up around cleveland also.....talk to ya soon     Love ya   cin
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Avatar universal
Had to answer    Bad day today  cried alot with memories,,I am In Ohio  60 Miles SE of Cleveland  in between cleveland and Pittsburgh....nothing to do here   I am coming down to the sunshine state.....Happy anniversary anyway....I am coming up on my 8th   got married and had kids at 33....my hubby is 7 years younger than me  he is 33......We'll talk  LOL     Now for sure I gotta get the dye out.....Love to all  cin
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Avatar universal
Thank you Milo, that is so sweet.
I talked to my husband about this one time, and it really made him feel better about himself.  He was looking at himself as some kind of evil monster, and why wasn't he stronger and able to deal with this addiction.  I explained about the 'better people theory' and how 'sensitive people actually are able to live that much more', and it brough a sense of some sort of peace on his face.  It made me happy that i could in some strange way, actually talk about it as a 'plus' for a change!
Good luck to you too, I hope you get your dreams!
Lv Jenny
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Avatar universal
I really liked what you said about sensitive people and the toubles we have...I think you're exactly right. I worry about every little thing, while people who are doing all kinds of terrible things don't give it a second thought. A close friend, who knows me about as well as anyone, said the same thing...we feel things more deeply and have to adjust our lives accordingly.
I wish you the best with your situation. As different as our lives are, I know this is terribly hard for you. Just know you have one more person praying for you and wishing you well.
Milo
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Avatar universal
Awww sweetie, i know how you feel, i have days like that too!
I almost burst out in tears this morning, but was able to hold back.  I'm going down with my usage somewhat, and i feel some hidden emotions coming to the surface.
It's weird, i feel like i can know see the opening through to the other side, although still far off in the distance, but i can see it.
I took a bunch of the mag/zinc this morning, nearly choked to death, but i got them down, so let's see how they do.  I can feel alittle w/d coming on slowly, but let's see how bad it gets.  I think it's the alcohol that's my real drug of choice, so if i can beat that, i can beat anything.
Just give your kiddies a tight hug, and thank god for the things in life that you are thankful for!
I have a 1 yr old daughter, a 5 yr old son, and an 8 year old daughter (i swear she thinks she's a teenager), or and a 43 year old child too!  lol!!!
Today is my 15-year wedding anniversary, and i just want to cry my heart out because we are barely speaking right now.
The stresses and pressure are extradinary.  I want to get better, and he is living in a world of denial, so we are going in separate directions.  I don't know what's going to happen.
Well, now that i laid all of this on you, do you feel better?  lol!  Sorry, i get so self-involved sometimes.
Where do you live again, i forget exactly.
You're going to have your up days and your down days, but remember that the feeling doesn't last.  Find things that work for you to make it easier to deal with those times.  Focus on the good things in life, and the yucky feelings will pass.
Good luck sweetie and know that i'm hear to listen anytime you need me!
Lv Jenny
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Avatar universal
well , i just rolled out of bed and had some "mom" dreams,,,,yesterday was a bad day,,i started crying on my way to work and just kep thinking and crying all day...I wake up and come here and fell better with all of your nice words.Milo   you even cracked me up   ***** in CHURCH?   ROFLMAO.....never heard that one....off to work....thanks again to you both  love to all   cin.
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Avatar universal
You know what i've realized.  It's the alcoholics and the drug users that really make the 'best' people because you are what you are because you 'feel' so deeply about life.  You are a sensitive human being, and life is tough, let's face it!!!!  It is the hard, tough types that seem to skate through life without falling prey to addictions.  But do you know what, they are also the types who miss out on the biggest joys that life can bring.  We are good, sensitive human beings who have a disease of addiction.  It doesn't make us bad, in fact, it makes us all the wiser because of it.  If you are able to break through and rise above the addiction, WOWIE, we are 10x the people that these straight, non-feeling humans will ever be!!!!!!
So hold you heads-up high (stole that from cin's mom), and be proud of what you are, addict but much much much more!  And most of all, you are worth the fight of saving yourself!
Love to you both and prayers!
Jenny
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Avatar universal
Cindi -- your last post put this whole issue into perspective so clearly and wonderfully. I should print it & put it over my desk -- "Words to Live By." Thank you!
Wizard -- I gave more thought to the guilt issue you raised from my earlier post. You're absolutely right. I've found that as I tell more people I'm on meds, more people tell me the same thing! We're all nervous until someone breaks the ice. When I began my current job, a kind, decent, wonderful co-worker was called (behind his back of course) "The Prozac King" because he openly shared his problems and attempts at a solution. That didn't exactly inspire me to be open and sharing! But I've come to respect this guy so much, and to disregard the opinions of folks who've never been down that road, that several of us have taken a proactive stance and given presentations on the effects of emotional/mental disabilities in the workplace. I was nervous as a ***** in church, but the presentations were all very well received!
Anyway, your comment made me realize I have to resolve some issues about meds. Thanks again, my friend -- Milo
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Avatar universal
Everyone has a story,,,and each person here can offer something,,experience, strength, hopes, dreams and anything else...we all come from somewhere different, west, east , but we all have one thing in common,,, addiction, pain and suffering, and who knows but one small word from someone may change another person's whole entire outlook or it may change that's person's life completely....please don't ever doubt that you can help someone here,  when my mom first died I came here looking for something....I felt I had nothing to offer so I just went on babbling about my own problems until a few people popped up and said that I may not even know it but I helped them in one way or another...and they actually thanked me....I still don't know what I did or said but I'm glad I could have been of some help.....and you have helped in more ways than you know......love to all   cin   PS  Thank you for your kind and warm words......
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Avatar universal
I have had the stigma of being the 'druggie" nurse for a long time....now everyone thinks I lost my license because of it...Not true  I quit voluntarily...could not handle the narcotics....still have a license but i have choosen to teach toddlers in a pre school...I was a very good nurse,,,commendations etc...(pat pat) LOL  but I ant to be a better mom for my kids, waife to my husband and teacher to my babies...not someone's johnny mop victim in the women's prison and that's where I was heading...12 felonies...not fun...i was plastered all over the news  they wanted me to be an "example"  but my mom told me to hle my head up...everyone has skeletons....and the ones with the most skeletons will talk...Milo,  be proud of who you are...there is no shame with being an addict  it has made me a much wiser better person...love to all      cin.          AKA druggie nurse...
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Avatar universal
If I were hospitalized, I would feel priveleged to have you as my nurse!
This forum is the first place I've felt safe to talk about these problems, and it helps a lot that you know where I'm coming from. Your comment about people with the most skeletons  doing the most talking is dead-on! And you're right, we do need to remember to be proud of ourselves for who we are...that's something that's easy for me to forget.
I just hope I'm able to contribute to this forum in even a small way compared to the help you've all brought me already.
Milo
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Avatar universal
Thank you *so much* for your comments about not feeling guilty re taking Rx meds. My friends & co-workers thought I was on who-knows-what because I missed so many days at work -- they couldn't understand that depression + chronic physical illness could keep anyone at home in bed. I guess that's why I feel guilty -- like I'm doing something wrong, even though I know it's not wrong! Interesting that at least one of my biggest "critics" had to take an SSRI later on herself...
For the last 3 years or so, my attendance has been regular, but as Thomas said in another thread, the stigma of being a :"druggie" (whether true or not) isalways with you...Not much I can do about that, I guess. Thanks for the time and the concern, Milo
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Avatar universal
Hi,

Check out my postings to niccee regarding all this type of thing.
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Avatar universal
Milo, one thing you said in your above post concerns me. That is you say you feel guilty about taking your prescribed meds for depression. It sounds like you have been battling deprssion for some time. Let me tell you that you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Our society has put a negative slant on mental illness yet there is millions of depressed people walking around afraid to seek treatment because of the stigma associated with it. That is just plain Bull Puckey! (like that word?) Don't ever feel guilty or ashamed of something you can not control. I wasted years not seeking help because I was ashamed and embarrassed of my addiction hiding it from my wife for most of the 27 years of our marriage.When I finally told her about a month ago, she looked at me and said Why didn't you tell me? I marriesd you in sickness and in health! And she has supported me in this fight. I could of down this a long time ago if I just would have been honest with her in the beggining. You hang in there Milo. My experience with addiction is mostly with hydro and oxy. Maybe some others can help with your questions on the drugs your taking. God Bless you!

Payne, just a short note to you. Believe me when I say that if you think you have a problem and came here searching, then chances are you do. You have been taking Darvocet for a long time but you didn't say why. Are you a pain patient or are taking it for the high? You said "I think I need help" that's a clue to me. Are you under a doctors care or getting them elswhere? 3 a day doesn't sound like much but for 20 years and everyday I'd guess there was some dependance there for sure.
Have you tried to stop before and if so what happened?
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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Avatar universal
hi  
here is my story ,just like every body body else i have abused the hydros for years off and on .i take 15 to 18 tablets of vicoden es or lortab  .i withdrawed many times and every time it
get scarier for me .right now i am going on my 48 hours and i dont really feel that bad .i have been preparing for this all week i sent my wife to her mother for 4 days along with my kids .
i have acess to the hydrocone very easily but this time i am getting off for good ,all i have to do is go to the pharmacy to get a refill but i am not going to .i have been taking the tyrosine 4000 mg and 200 mg b6 in the morning plus i have lomotil
for the runs it works great ,also for sleep at night i have valiums and xanax .i am doing really good comparing to what i have seen on this form .the only thing that is bother me is my elbows at night they hurt and twitch .i also have b complex injections made in mexico and phentrine 30 mg i take one a day for the energy it is working very good i feel almost normal ,i am alittle lazy but i can function enough to do my daily tasks .now i have tried withdrawing with out all this it is hell ......i wish every body luck and keepthe faith i have done it and if you put it in your mind you can do it too god bless you
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Avatar universal
Thanks again, and feel free to lean on me (whether it's questions or simply venting)...I do admire your commitment to withdrawal and sobriety -- and your caring for others. Like I said, you're an inspiration to us all (and I can accept that "inspirational people" have their good days & bad days like everone...)
A quick rundown: diagnosed by multiple doctors with severe anxiety disorder, I've been on benzo's on and off (mostly on) for about 15 years --- Valium, Dalmane, Xanaz, you name it. I don't abuse them, and my Dr. & I see no reason to discontinue, but I feel guilty for taking them! I also take Zoloft for OCD & depression (works better for OCD than for depression), and the deomon Fioricet. Have you ever taken this? The worst parts are amnesia (will I remember that I wrote this?) and *extreme* anxiety upon discontinuing. Other than tapering, do you or anyone else have suggestions for minimizing the anxiety?
After reading through this forum, all I can say is *Thank God* I have never become adicted to opiates. What hell that must be. Power & Magick back 2 ya, Milo
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Avatar universal
i have just discovered this site. i have been reading some of the comments about addiction. i am not sure, but i think i may be an addict. i have been taking darvocet for about twenty years. i never take over three a day. i also never miss a day taking them. i think i need help.
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Avatar universal
Milo, I got to tell you I wasn't always positive and I'm not so sure how level headed I am (but thanks for the compliment)but depressed was a daily thing for me. I was taking a lot of hydro and oxy for pain but it seemed to work for the depression also. Tha I found out was a dream for me.I found I was depressed because I was withdrawing and didn't know it. It was the built up tolerance level of the drugs. I just couldn't ake enough.The pain was actually secondary to me. It was the high and euphoria I was chasing. Once I detoxed, after the 1st week, I found that my chronic pain was actually tolerable with none opiate measures. The depression lifted mostly too. Now, I DO have my moments when the "Dragon" whispers for sure. But along with my faith in God and the support of everyone here and at home I keep that ******* at bay. I still have my moments but they are so much easier to handle now that the initial withdrawels are over. The big fight is on now for the rest of my life to STAY off the "dragon". But hey, even if relapse happens, I will try and try again to fight it. This isn't the 1st time I've gone clean, but it is the first time I've REALLY been committed and been HONEST with myself and my wife about it. For me that is what is gonna make the difference. Depression is a very REAL thing and can be caused by many different factors. Getting to the root of it is imperative for your well being. If it's a chemical imbalance that can be treated by a good doctor. I think mine was self induced. So far so good with me. When I get weak I RUN to this board or talk to my wife. The important thing for me is to stay busy. When I do the "Dragon" whispers go away. I will pray for you as I do for me and the others. Good luck and stay focused. You've made the first step by posting. Keep us informed and lean on us when the need arises. There are wonderful "angels" here like Thomas, Cindy, Angelica, Jay Jay, Deja, JennyFla and please forgive me anyone I left out but you know who you are! The Wiz's mind isn't the steel trap it used to be LOL. Anyway, Bless you and may peace be on ya,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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