Parent of a heroin addict

[CASEY]

My 19 year old has been using heroin for a year. Right now, he denies it but then he will ask for clonodine. Until he admits he has a problem, what should we do? Wait around until he crashes? He suffers from severe depression and is on Wellbutrin. He attributes all of his problems to depression and is very angry if I suggest it is the drugs. I am trying to go on with my life but it is hard when he is falling apart at 3:00 am, crying and lamenting about having no hope. I am going to Alanon. I have told him we will get help for him when he is ready but his meltdowns are killing our family. How direct should I be about the evidence he sometimes leaves around plus the raging? I am so worn out. Help!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Apparently your son lives with you so now it is a family problem. You need to confront him now along with the rest of the family for back-up support.  My brother did this 3 years ago with my nephew and it worked!  Alanon should be able to help you out on how to handle this one correctly.  If your son is self medicating with heroine, he definately needs professional help as he has some deep seated problems that need to be addressed now!  See if you can find a detox facility with an addition specialist and talk to them about your son if you value your sanity and your family's well being.  Good luck! Now is the time to be firm and not take any more BS from your son.

[Mike P. to Ken]

Found this on the site recommended way below. I think it has some great thoughts as far as use and "addiction" go. Check it out. This was found under the Oxycodone section. Sounds like the medical professionals that put that site together have a better grasp than many on opiates and the fear that surrounds them. Unfortunately, most doctors don't "gradually decrease" anything. - Mike P.

"Use exactly as directed by your prescriber or health care professional. If you are taking oxycodone on a regular basis, do not suddenly stop taking it. Your body becomes used to the oxycodone and when you suddenly stop taking it, you may develop a severe reaction. This does NOT mean you are "addicted" to oxycodone. Addiction is a behavior related to getting and using a drug for a non-medical reason. If you have pain, you have a medical reason to take pain medicine such as oxycodone to control your pain. If you do stop oxycodone treatment after several days, your prescriber will gradually decrease your dose over a period of time to avoid any adverse reactions."

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Here's another example of people's disegard for someone's question.  Genie deserves better than that on her thread.  I'm getting tired of you whiners on this forum because you are the problem and not one iota of the solution.  Never ever trash another's thread with your selfish, wimpy questions here.  I know that I'll probably get flamed for saying this but I just have had it up to here with this kind of posting.

[to chad and von]

First to J.B.  You have my upmost respect for your post.  I totally agree with you.  Genie came here asking for help, posted a VERY serious question, and you gave her a great answer.  The others who posted just shoved her aside without even the courtesy of responding, simply so they could get their rather UNIMPORTANT posts read.  To me this is the height of selfishness and just another sign of our incredibly selfish culture.  If you do get flamed J.B., it will come from selfish, ignorant people who are not even worth my spending the time to write about them.  To Genie, J.B.'s post about an intervention is a great idea.  So is Alanon.  As J.B. said, please raise the issue with them.  With respect to your son, he needs immediate professional help.  Look for a psychologist/psychiatrist certified in treating addiction.  Also, I think you must confront your son, with love but with firmness.  Heroin is FAR too dangerous to not confront him about.  At least those of us addicted to pills knew EXACTLY how much narcotic we were using.  Your son is at tremendous risk because heroin strengths vary so much.  His next dose could be his last.  You are correct, if he is asking for clonidine, he is using.  You must get him professional help, urge him to go to meetings, search his room to ensure you know EXACTLY what he is doing, and set strict groundrules for him continuing to live in your house.  Finally, most addicts don't allow anyone to help them until they hit rock bottom.  I hope your son is not in this category.  Good luck to you and please post again.  Phil

[genie]

Thanks for getting the discussion back on track. I truly appreciate your support. When you  live within the craziness of addiction, it is helpful to hear a sane voice. My son admits he loves heroin but insists it is in the past. As much as I would love to believe him, I don't. I don't have hard evidence but my gut speaks loudly. When he is raging and crying , I don't know if  he is coming down or manifesting his depression. Daily, I put it in front of him that when he is ready for help, we will get it for him. We try hard not to make his use easy for him. His basic issue is that he is terrifiedd of facing adulthood and is seriously dragging his feet to the point that he makes himself ill. I wish I had faith in rehab. If he does agree to getting help, I don't know which way to jump. Rehab? AA? Acupuncture and homeopathy? It is all such a **** shoot. I hear of so many having spent their life savings on rehab. to no avail. What has worked in your experience? thanks, guys.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Sorry about yesterday's post, I guess I was pretty snippy with you.  Don't take it too personal, I just meant that many times people post some questions that need immediate attention.  Many times we get way off track and the original poster will get pretty upset that no one seems to care about their problem.  Using heroine is a very big problem for anyone, especially a 19 year old.  I'm glad that you understand why is said what I said!
I use a mail order pharmacy but I don't want to give you their name.  My doctor referred me to them so I assume you would need a referral.  Every transaction is done by a code like a long PIN number.  I get eleven different meds this way.  Two of my meds are Schedule III and I have to inform them 10 days before I'm out.  They are shipped via FedEx and arrive right on schedule almost to the day I will run out.  I am also on a payment plan which really helps finacially in that I send a predetermined amount each month(like the power company's budget program). The price of the meds are probably 20 percent lower than the local pharmacy.  See if your doctor knows anything about this.

[to genie]

i have a 19 yr old cousin thats in jail because of heroin and god knows what else.he was finally arrested for daytime b&e. he has stole money and cars & about anything else you can think of. he has parents that love him dearly and unconditionally to the point that they wanted to think he was telling them straight this time& this time & this time...dont buy into it or your gonna go down that same road my family has gone.i think phil &jb have told you right dont think its gonna go away. take action before your looking at him from the other side of the bars.i ve never used  heroin but saw this with my cousin unfold over the last 5 years, dont let his crying full ya get him somewhere!before you dont have a say. wishing you luck & will pray for you all

[Mike P. to Ken]

Instead of jumping on anyone's ass - regardless of a "sorry" - Post to the creators of this board and ask for more acceptable posts a day. People will continue to tag on until that is resolved. As for me - I no longer give a ****. Shame on me for leaning on people in cyberspace for ANYTHING - and shame on the rest of you for typing anything here instead of talking to your loved ones. Or for posting medical questions that demand actual medical attention instead of someone's reply here - regardless of their "medical qualifications" etc. Thanks to those who have shown me just how inane this board is. It's a crutch for some - a catalyst for others and serves to do nothing but alienate anyone who relies on it from the real world. What's really wrong with this country? People tend to find a substitute for anything but reality. First it's the drugs and then it's the internet. You guys have fun discussing the endless ramifications of drug addiction and what to do about it while doing nothing about it. I'm going to do what I should have done long ago: forget this site ever existed and go live in reality. Those of you who can't talk to your kids, spouse, doctor, shrink, dealer etc., turn off your computer and learn how to. Until then it's just procrastination and excuses. I won't post again.

[Gina]

A guy named Charlie stated that he was prescribed vicodin from the pillbox. He states that it is legitimate. A physician will phone you and discuss your symptoms. Charlie was given a script for 100 vics and 1 refill. He stated he did this just to hold him over until he went through detox and has now been clean for approx. 2 months now. Has anyone else tried? I had gone online and started to answer the questionaire but when I was asked who my server was (HTTP OR ?) I didn't know the answer and could not progress any farther. I felt like this was a sign from above so I didn't proceed. If anyone else has tried please let us know. Thanks!!!!!

[to chad and von]

You, anonymous poster who wrote to "J.B. and the rest."  I am glad you are leaving this board.  You obviously don't get what is going on here. (AND you are too cowardly to put your name)  We are addicts helping other addicts, plain and simple.  MANY people have posted how much we have helped them.  If you are unable to understand this, and obviously don't have the intelligence level to do so, then PLEASE LEAVE!!  No one here is substituting this information for a doctor's opinion, or because they are "addicted" to the internet.  Instead, they are looking for information from those who know it best--the addicts themselves.  NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND?  As for your earlier barging in on Genie's thread, I stand by my prior post.  The manner in which you did it was incredibly rude, and therefore it doesn't surprise me you later lash out at those who sought to show you your rudeness.  Of course people have to post questions under others due to the lack of new questions.  However, when a very serious question like Genie's has been posted, THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IS ACKNOWLEDGE HER PRIOR TO SHOVING YOUR OWN STUPID QUESTION IN!!  If you REALLY want to know what is wrong with this country my friend, it is people like you.  Rude, ignorant, arrogant, impatient, insensitive and selfish people, who trample on others' feelings without regard, simply to get their own needs met.  So, go from here and find some right wing nazi group where I'm sure you'll fit right in.  Good riddance.  Phil

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm the real J.B. and want you to know that I didn't write the post J.B. and the rest.  I was shocked when I read it and thought that either someone was trying to do me in or I was in some incredible blackout!  Thanks for the post you wrote to the anonymous poster(imposter).

About the Pill Box Pharmacy: I thought they were in all kinds of trouble with DEA.  I saw something on television a while back where a ten year old boy got Viagra from them!  I would be careful in dealing with a company like that because DEA might be knocking on your door next.

[to Kat]

You're quite welcome.  I truly appreciate your posts here.  I think you've helped A LOT of people with your honesty, your caring input, etc.  I wish more people were less selfish about THEIR own needs and were like you.  Take care, Phil

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks so much for the kind words!  I'd like to think that I've helped some people here and maybe made a difference.  But that is not the sole reason for my posting.  I like to type these messages to guage how I am doing...kind of like a diary.  It helps me keep my own sanity.  All I can say is that I have a lot of experience with alcohol and drug abuse and nothing except out and out rudeness shocks me anymore.  We all deserve to be heard here and nobody is any better than anybody else when it comes to needing help with our problems.  Phil, you are a good soul and the voice of reason here.  Tom, Dan, Brian, Brighty and so amny others have so much to give all of us.  We just need to listen and take everything they tell us to heart and make our own decisions.  That's it in a nutshell.  Take home what you want and leave the rest behind!  Be well my friend.

[Brighty to JB and Phil]

You were both correct and appropriate to post as you did in regard and respect for others. You are to be commended. I have had many discussions with JB on this board and know you to be a person of integrity. And Phil, you are certainly a welcome newcomer. I think nearly everyone who comes here is a valuable addition to the knowledge and support that we come here for. I do think that it's hard to get questions on the board and this is why some folks just seem to interrupt and disrupt a thread. I hope that when anyone needs to do this that they can find a thread of similar content and insert their question there.... maybe that will help. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Genie]

THERE IS HOPE !!!!! Nearly everyone here knows that I have spent 3 1/2 years battling alongside my daughter and her heroin addiction. She began her addiction with RX Xanax and sooner or later tried everything and the heroin is what put her at death's door more than once. She has been in treatment now for nearly 9 months. Like your son she is young ... 21... and was despondent because she finally had found her nemesis... a drug so powerful it steals your soul. You can find a short version of my story on this board in another thread. You may be in for the battle of your life... your son is crying out for help but has lost his belief that he can win. Right now he needs his family even though he may do things to alienate them. I do agree with the friends here who are advising you to go to alanon or naranon.... do it... but remember.... they may eventually tell you to give him to God.. to let him into the street to hit bottom. Remember.. the bottom may be death.... I was totally unwilling to allow my daughter to die...even if it was supposedly God's will... today she is in recovery. She has nearly 9 months of clean time. This battle can be won. There is no magic bullet... your son may have to do his part even if he is forced into it kicking and screaming initially.  Since there is too much to post here I am hoping you will contact me by e-mail. My address is ***@****   By the way Genie, you are in the right place. The people here are genuine caring human beings who understand the suffering of addiction. They speak from experience and have compassionate hearts. Please continue to come here for support... I am not an addict but for me I would not have made the last 8 months without the folks her holding me up and giving me courage. They are all light bearers who have helped me find my way out of the darkness. Love, Brighty

[3-D to Genie (and everyone else)]

Hello all, I have been reading this board for some time now, and only decided to post when I read Genie's post.  I know how rough of a time I have had with pharmaceuticals, so I can only imagine the impact heroin would have.  I will save my story for later, for as of right now I wish to address Genie.  Have you considered a change of enviornment for your son?  Short of jail, I mean?  I cannot count how many times I have detoxified myself (at home) only to have a "friend" call me with a good deal on Oxycontin.  Nobody twisted my arm, yet had no one called me I can honestly say I wouldn't have went looking.  I live in a rather rural area (Small Town, USA), and suffered from severe depression as well as an anxiety disorder.  When I moved to The City (a tourist spot) and got a job, it was like a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulders.  I lost a lot of weight (a good thing), my Public Relations skills started to blossom, my confidence in myself rose, and my anxiety disorder lay dormant while I was there.  I am rambling, but the point I am trying to make is this:  Like a good friend once said, "If you run with the dogs you'll get the fleas on you eventually."  One of the many things I have learned from having an Addictive Personality is that MISERY LOVES COMPANY.  Perhaps, if he gets away from that area and into a different one, he will find some things that mean more to him.  The craving for Opiates will flare up on me from time to time, this I am sure, but if they are not readily available I will find something else to do.  We are all susceptible to the influence of others to some degree, and I am guessing that 95 percent of his so-called "friends" are really nothing more than drug-buddies looking for someone who is just as miserable as they are, if not more.  It is unfortunate to say the least, but many people BS themselves into believing they feel better by saying, "Hey, compared to him/her, I'm not so bad."  Beware of these people.  As far as jail or commitment goes, I don't feel that I can make a suggestion there, for I have mixed feelings on those topics.  Just remember that when he scratches his nose and face frequently, it is a tell-tale sign of opiate use.  That's one thing you can't hide!  Take care Genie, and I wish you and your family the best.  -Love 3-D

[BreAnne "Enigma" Hartman]

Dear Genie,
   I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am for you because I have been putting my Mother through since I was 12 years old
( 17 Now) and wish I can see you face to face and somehow tell you that you are doing everything that you probably can do with what ever is left of your strength & will of a mother that the USA needs more of today. Your son does have a serious problem and it isn't justified for him to behave the way he has around you. The reason he gets angry with your suggestion of his irratibility resulting from the drugs because he knows that it's true and he doesn't know how to deal with it.  He's unwilling to face that the fact that drugs have completley enslaved him and is trying (in a way) to prove he is not addicted. It's Really hard to explain this thought pattern verbally, but believe, it's true. I went to a rehab for 3 1/2 months until i have finally excepted my own actions and wanted to change them. I came home on Halloween thinking that by having the WILL to change I would with no problems. I was VERY wrong because on MoN., Nov.29, I went to a concert & nearly O.D.ed thinking I could still Handle it. Now, I am still Suffering from the effects and wondering how much of what ever it was that I mixed in my dirty drug cocktail. I am telling you this because I want to warn you of something. When a hardcore junkie is clean for a while and messes up again, they mess up BAD!!! I know that if i do that again i probably won't be able to pull myself from 6 ft under to warn anyone else. You need to get you son help, he WILL die if he doesn't  get his act together. Trust me, when I say stuff like that, I am ALWAYS right. But he needs to be willing to help himself first.

                               Regards~*
                                    ENIGMA          PS...You    know, you can commit him to a menta institution for this kind of thing.  They'er not all bad. You should check out the U of U mental inst. in Utah, Its really good.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I just checked in to see if you are o.k.  This topic is near and dear to my heart due to the experiences with my nephew's addiction to crack.  My brother spent tens of thousands of dollars on him at treatment facilities.  Nothing was keeping him away from crack.  Out of desperation, my brother asked me for help.  I lived in Colorado at the time and didn't know what to do but decided that Chris be sent to me for the summer.  I thought that getting away from his peers would be the answer.  We had some wonderful times fishing, exploring, camping and all the things you can find to do in the mountains.  Mainly, we just spent a lot of time together.  He just wanted a father in his life and had felt cheated by his own father's absence(he was gone most of the time on business trips).  Anyway, Chris stayed with us for two years graduating from High School in the process.  He made quite a name for himself in football and had the admiration of many girls.  He later got a college degree in business from a well known Jesuit School in Indiana, married a Veteranarian and has a son of his own.  There are some successful ones around-the survivors.  I just thank God that I was allowed to be able to help my nephew.  This was one of my finer moments.

[To All from Kimberly]

Hi Genie and All, I sympathize so much to your problem with your son, I saw a show, Ricki Lake, it was on yesterday and today, they had teens addicted to heroin.  The teens were offered the opportunity to go to a very kind detox, where they put the kids to sleep for about 6 hours and give them a medication to rapidly clean their opiod receptors.  They were asleep so they didn't feel much of the withdrawl, then they were offered inpatient rehab.  I don't know what the program is called but Ricki has a website and I am sure you can get some information from there.  It is so scary, I have 2 children of my own and I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you.  If he could just understand addiction is a dead end to life.  I will pray for you and everyone here.  Thanks  Kimberly

[CASEY]

Thanks for all of your words. After a week of hell, I feel like I have nothing to lose by putting it all out on the table with my son. I think I will just tell him the evidence that I have and that it is time for him to face it. I am not one for ultimatums but I am gaining the courage to be honest with him, even if he flips out (once more). My dilemma is that I don't know what to offer him. Our insurance is an HMO with a weak rehab program. The commercial rehab is pricey. We are a single income family so my resources are limited. If I had faith in something surefire, I would bet the farm on it but I've become cynical because I hear so many failed rehab stories, even if I can get him there. He does have an apointment with his psychiatrist next week but he minimizes the problem when he is in there. One thing I might be able to sell to him is naturopathy augmented with accupuncture. He is a vegetarian and other than heroin,  very health conscious. I have been afraid to alienate him and lose our connection but desparation is kicking in. I am too old to live on 3 hours of sleep a night. The fleas of the dog are certainly affecting him and me. Any suggestions of next step after confrontation?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yeah, a lot of hugs, kisses, crying and making sure that he knows that you are commited to helping him through all this.  Maybe he'll realize what he's doing to your family and himself and want to stop all this nonsense.  I just hope that you don't have to go to step three.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Maybe the acupuncture was done on the wrong part of your body.  Try the other end next time and let us know what happened.  I'm dying to find out if it works!

[Mike P. to Ken]

"...and other than heroin, very health conscious."

Oh, that's all. Whoo. Thought it might be serious.

This sounds like a case of "Mom doesn't know as much as she thinks she does about her son."

If he's willing to put a drug that is cut on the street with strychnine (rat poison) into his body, I'd bet he's not just eating salad during the day. A mighty big wake up is coming around. Watch for it. Seriously.

[Jon]

Got a question.  I have been on vicodin for about two months now for chronic back pain.  I feel like what was once originally working to cure the pain is negating.  Its like I have to increase my dose myself to feel a little better.  I am always subsituted from 5/500 to 7.5/500 to 7.5/750 and I feel like with the 5/500 or 7.5/750 I need more codeine.  I feel like I am becoming addicted but I really don't want to.  It is the only thing that cures my pain and ends my misery.  I haven't been able to tell my doctor because I don't want to sound like a junkie and make him think I am abusing, but I don't know what else to do.  I don't want to over do it on the acetominophin and damage my liver and was wondering what anyone knew about vicoprofen.  I like ibuprofen better as an anagelsic anyway.  If anyone knows anything your help would be greatly appreciated.

[Jon]

Got a question.  I have been on vicodin for about two months now for chronic back pain.  I feel like what was once originally working to cure the pain is negating.  Its like I have to increase my dose myself to feel a little better.  I am always subsituted from 5/500 to 7.5/500 to 7.5/750 and I feel like with the 5/500 or 7.5/750 I need more codeine.  I feel like I am becoming addicted but I really don't want to.  It is the only thing that cures my pain and ends my misery.  I haven't been able to tell my doctor because I don't want to sound like a junkie and make him think I am abusing, but I don't know what else to do.  I don't want to over do it on the acetominophin and damage my liver and was wondering what anyone knew about vicoprofen.  I like ibuprofen better as an anagelsic anyway.  If anyone knows anything your help would be greatly appreciated.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm working on the very same thing with pain meds.  Everything I've been prescribed so far has the dreaded acetominiphen(Tylenol) in it.  APAP is another way of saying Tylenol as well on the bottle.  In three months I've gone from 5/500 to 10/650 because my tolerance has been building.  If you are in chronic pain as I am, you should keep a daily pain journal and show it to your doctor at every visit.  Until I started my pain log, I was having a very hard time getting adequate pain relief from my doctor.  It's much better to show them written documentation than to just walk in and say "I am in pain all the time and can't function".  Doctors are real sticklers for record keeping and documentation and the more information you can give them the better.  If you are a chronic pain sufferer, you need to know that there is a huge difference between dependency and abuse.  

About the vicoprophen, I'd like some input on this myself.  I heard is was a proprietary drug.  What ever that means.  It is probably only licensed to one pharmaceutical company and is very expensive is my bet.  So insurers may not cover this med.

[Frankinscense]

Vicoprofen is a very effective drug formulation. It has 7.5mgm hydrocodone and aprox.300 mgm.s iburofen(equivalent to one otc advil) treaing pain my simply masking the pain is not the most effective way to achieve pain relief. The majority of pain is caused by inflammation due to trauma. Ibuprofen is an excellent medicine for inflammation. If we find what is causing our pains and treat that symptom, a good majority of the time we will not have to take large dose of opiates/narcotics. Another cause of pain is spasms which can be treated my muscle relaxants/NSAIDS. These meds actually treat the cause of the pain and reduce the inflammation causing the pain.
                                                                   Pains in our bodies are direct response to a problem. Trauma,muscle and other spasms and mental anquish can cause various pain throughout thge body.  We could best treat our pains by finding out what is causing our bodies response. Find out what is causing our pains and treat that problem. If antinflammatories(NSAIDs ibuprofen etc.)   cannot relief the pain alone try the combination--VICOprofen. Usually if your pain is caused my various traumas (swelling and spasms) lower doses of opiates in combination create superior pain relief because you are actually treating the cause of the pain. I mixed advil with my hydrocodone  the last time I had a toothache or sinus infection and got superior pain relief with this combination. I would have to take two lortab 10/500 to achieve pain relief. And I still had breakthrough pain. When I took two advils with one lortab 10/500, it was like I had a pain injection because almost all the pain was gone. Hint, mixing high doses of tylenol and advil type drugs is not very safe due to problems with kidney and liver damage.   I know some of you know this information. Specifically,we know have a pharmacist studying to be Phd looking on, and I do not want to offend him with these statements. I am sure I may have spelled some words wrong and maybe jess will correct me. My peace I give you, My  peace I leave you.
Best to ALL,
  Dan...

[Brighty to Dan]

Your last sentence in the post above is the best thing I have read on this board in the 9 months I have been coming here. This is the only true peace... the key to complete healing. Bless you for granting this to everyone here. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Genie and those who responded]

I have been this route and I don't believe the road ever ends... it turns into eternal vigilance. The comments everyone provided were, in my humble estimation, exceptional. The one factor that could render everyone's advice wrong is if your son is not ready to quit.... and for the life of me, I don't think anyone will have the answer to that... maybe not even your son. Sometimes the addict thinks they are ready but in the process they fall on their face... this is why they desperately need the support of other recovered addicts who can relate the process to them and help them believe it can happen... that they can and will quit. This is not something you can provide... although you can continually assure your son that you will help him fight this.... that he can be successful. This is really hard for me because I did that for a long time.... then when I realized I was fighting the devil and not my kid I became angry and enraged. I hope that someday I can forgive myself for all the nasty, cruel, and negative things I said to her. I have had to learn that this is part of the process also. There are many stages to this, similar to grieving. I have posted my e-mail above for you because I do have experience and resource information for you. In the meantime, try to encourage your son to get to NA... I went to meetings with her for over 2 years. Part of that was because I was afraid she would tie up with some bad connections there, rather than the good ones. But it also let her know that I believed that she could heal and was willing to invest myself into that by attending. Frankly, it was a horrifying experience for me. I got past my stereotypical beliefs and finally my healing began also. Please re-read JB's post to you.... this is a story of inspiration and this is the type of thing you need to hang your hat on. Addicts and their families need to know that these healings happen and should be expected. For years addicts were made to feel they were hopeless and would relapse forever.... especially heroin addicts who were called " the untouchables" because they seemed to have the lowest success rate. The truth is... there is hope. Please send me an e-mail. Love, Brighty

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

I just wanted to let you know that NSAIDS can be far more dangerous to chronic pain patients then taking narcotic medications. More people die each year taking NSAIDS then taking narcotic pain medications.
Once again, taking pain meds for chronic pain does not always mean you are or will become an addict.

[BigBadBob]

Genie:  I must admit I have not read every word of every post concerning your son but may I make a suggestion.  I am a registered nurse who has been involved in drug treatment from a clinical standpoint for some years.  It sounds like your son is in serious denial about the danger of the course which he has chosen.  Were I you, I would encourage him to attend a few meetings on Narcotics Annonymous.  He can go with no pressure or committment but there he will at least be exposed to the truth about drug addiction.  Good luck and to those of you who broke in to this thread to ask inappropriate questions about Pill Box; try the RsBoard/Vicodin.  There they talk of little else.

[cindy regarding rapid detox and hi to ne]

In the above thread, someone mentioned the six hour detox.  I have heard of this.  Apparantly, you are put under and the worst of the withdrawals supposedly are "slept away."  However, it is very expensive and insurance doesn't cover it.  Does anyone know anything about this?  Neena, thank you for the post.  I am glad you are doing good and the fact you are doing it while taking care of a baby is amazing.  I have gotten myself down to four or five vicodin es's a day, but the withdrawal is the same as when I was doing about 8-10 a day.  I can't believe the amounts some people are taking.  Thanks for asking about my husband.  He is fine, he will take a vicodin now and then, dare I say it, for lift, like someone would drink a beer.  He doesn't do them often because of the withdrawals, and also because he is sensitive to the fact I need them.  Keep on keeping on.

[janet [e-mail]]

dear genie im aherion addict . im 26 i started snorting dope when i was 19 yrs old by 20 iwasshooting it this went on for  
3 yrs i was on the streetsof philadelphia becuz i burnt all my bridges at home my parents sent me to a rehab and a gizillion detoxs from clonidine and fenabarbatol to bufronex to methadone and the worst cold ass turkey .i had to hit rock bottom on the street before i could turn around its scary cuz i sold my body on a daily basis and od alot . but if it wasnt for those memorys i and keepin it green and remembering all the bad things it helps me today unfortunetly heroin addicts always forget the pain of kickin . how i doit is im on methadone maitenance . and i attend na meetings . i kn ow its better to do it without meth but for now its saving my life . ive been clean for 3 years off of heroin and crack. dont be scaird of your son becuz its not your son its his addiction hes still in there recovery will bring him back . janet from nj

[Brighty to Janet 26]

God bless you, Janet. Yours is a story of hope and inspiration. What you told Genie was the utmost truth. None of us could say it better. I also believe that you have made the point that Dan has been trying to tell us about methadone. May you have continued healing and inner peace. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Cindy § Kimberly re: rapid de]

I basically know what you know about the rapid detox and have no personal experience... that is... my daughter never detoxed that way. What Cindy said is what I have learned from TV shows and sites on the net. Investigative Reports did a show on heroin addiction and one component was the rapid detox. The information was that it's useful because it gets the addict past the main reason they do not quit... because opiate withdrawl is a horror... so my understanding was that if it were an easier detox addicts may get clean. The other issues mentioned were that it's only a first step. The addict will still have to utilize recovery programs and relapse prevention and work at staying clean just like the addict who had a 7 day withdrawl. In this particular documentary a doctor was interviewed and he is someone who is well known in the south Jersey and Philadelphia area. He is or was also on the net under rapid detox or similar search words. I mentioned his name once on this board and my post was removed so I assume my doing this was inappropiate. Anyway, one of the things that was highlighted was that this doctor reported he had done something like 3,000 (?) of these rapid detoxes. Patients were tracked and there were something like 8 deaths later on. Now what I got from this documentary was that he was asked to stop the rapid detox by the state until the safety of the procedure could be examined. He complied. It seemed that the procedure was safe but that most of the patients had naltrexone pellets implanted under their skin after the procedure and did not heed the warnings that using heroin with these implants could cause death because the naltrexone prevents the person from getting the high from the opiate... and since they cannot perceive the opiate to be working they generally overdose and die. Now... it is incredulous for me to imagine that anyone would go ahead and use an opiate, particularly heroin, knowing full well that the naltrexone would prevent then from getting high... but evidently there are a number of cases where this has happened and death resulted. This makes me think that naltrexone does not prevent cravings and acts as a psychological barrier so the addict decides not to use because they will not get high. I am not sure if this is correct so maybe someone will post here and clarify this for me. I have always been curious about this. Personally I think it may be better not to use naltrexone if someone is going to try to "skirt" it and die in the process. Also, I have no information if this doctor in NJ is back to rapid detox now and if it's still considered a worthwhile endeavor. Seems to me the rapid detox would be excellent but maybe not the naltrexone. I hope someone will post some good information on this. Love, Brighty

[Brighty ... a PS to my post up above]

I think it would be good to know if rapid detox is for all opiate addicts or just heroin addicts.... I am wondering if they adjust the dosages of the rapid detox "cocktail" for those whose opiate use is not as heavy as that of a 10 bag per day heroin addict as opposed to a 10 pill per day vicoden addict. I hope someone will be able to answer this. By the way, the specific name of the Investigative Reports I saw was titled "The Junkie Next Door" and it was aired sometime last winter... a year or a bit less ago. I do know that Investigative Reports" has a web site for anyone who is interested.

[CASEY]

Janet 26, You are so sweet to take time to care about my plight with my son. I am sorry you have had to go through so much but congratulations for pulling yourself up from the depths. You have touched my heart. Here's to hope. Genie

[Frankinscense]

Rapid detox is a horrible and very dangerous procedure that has taken lifes. There are people who have survived the very expensive procedure only to relapse and had to actually surgically remove the naltrexone pellets the doctors put under the skin. It is a very conterversial procedure that has relapse rates in the 99% catergory. I think it is a terrible way to detox opiates! (IMO)
Sincerely, Dan

[Brighty to Dan]

Thanks for a very important and informative post !!! I am wondering if the problem is due to the rapid detox itself or the naltrexone. If you know more about this please share it here. And do you know if the medical community or the govrening boards have placed any warnings or restrictions on this procedure ? Thanks again for sharing your information.

[tom to Dan]

thanks for your words on rapid detox. I think it is grotesque and more appropriate as a scene from a Frankenstein sequel.

[Frankinscense]

I forgot to mention that these doctors claim that naltrexone pellets stop cravings for opiates. This is misinformation at its worst. It simply is not true. It is used in a drug called Revia to help alcoholics, but people using this drug still have a very high relapse rate. If nalterxone worked for opiate cravings there would be no need for methadone or LAAM to help opiate addicts with their cravings! These doctors using rapid detox as a means to help people are oportunist out for a quick buck and are borderline unethical with this procedure. There have been deaths for the procedure alone, not to mention the overdoses due to the implants of naltrexone! Natrexone should be used for one thing and that is opiate overdoses.
Dan...

[Brighty to Dan]

Thanks for a great post! You have confirmed what I believed about Naltrexone..... it's a death sentence waiting to happen. Best wishes, Brighty

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for the good information!  I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion of Naltexone and the so-called rapid detox method.

[MaDsUrFeR]

I was wondering if anyone knew how Genie got on with her son, I have just spent quite a while reading through all the posts.
My cousin was a heroin addict and therefore I realize the pain and heartache that is felt by loved ones, it would be nice if you could drop me a line Genie (or anyone that knows her) and let me know how things are going. I will offer all the help to you I can (I'm a support worker for people with stress disorders).

God Bless

Craig (from the UK)

mad.***@****

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Craig!
We are glad you are here. We can use your help. Please keep checking back.  It would be great to have your input.  I am sure that you will get your answer to the question that you had in your post. Dont be a stranger!
Marcie.

[smiler in u.k]

Im aLso a heroin addict and am desperately trying to get of it but there is not enough help over where i live.Has anyone out there got any advice for me as it would be much appriaciated
ive tried five times to do my cold turkey but give in to the cravings of one last buzz.my hole life is falling apart around me and i dont now what to do.

[John07211996]

I am a recovering addict who has been able to stay clean since 1996 through living the program of Narcotics Annonymous.  My drug of choice was heroin.  During my period of time in active addiction I used despite virtually all of the consequences.  My family and friends went through hell.  Most of them thought drugs were going to kill me.  They would have too except for virtue of me finding recovery.

Getting off dope is only part of the problem.  Sure being dope sick is no picnic whatsoever.  Between the throwing up, chills and body aches it really sucks.  However, I got off of dope quite a number of times but ended up going back to it.  The problem is staying clean more so than getting clean.  That is why it is so imperative that I continue to work a program of recovery.  

I am of the firm belief that drug addiction is a disease.  The first component of this disease is physical (the inability to stop using drugs once we start).  The second part is mental - the overpowering compulsion to continue to use even though we know it is killing us.  The third is spiritual - total self-centeredness.  

I hope that all addicts who desire to get clean and stay clean find their way.  This is a horrible disease.  It killed all of my friends and will kill me if I went back out again.  I saw the looks in my friends parents eyes at their funerals.  

[McGill]

Some people are just asses.  Don't be an idiot

[seagulls]

I am the mother of a looooooooooooooong term addict. and i agree the detox is the easy bit its the rehabilitation thats the hard thing as heroin gets such a grip its hard to break and the longer your on it the harder it is.

[Yoda99]

Hi, my name is Yoda and I've been here for a while now.  I can't believe I just read though all of these posts to find out this thread was started in 2000.  The people that were posting at that time are probably not posting anymore.  You do have a valid point, and I think you should start a new thread.  These old ones that keep popping up are throwing a lot of people off.
Good luck,
Yoda

[NewLeaf]

I agree a new thread would be good. Another mom of an addict.

[Savas]

I'm so sorry, that must be hell. But nowadays, the detox is NOT the easiest part. Due to changes in views on addiction, there are no easy options for detox anymore.
I have a thread called
"Methadone detox: What works, what doesn't

in this forum. It applies, as heroin and methadone are both opiates, and the long term effects for heroin withdrawal, while may be shorter in terms of a few days here and a few months there are there.
Information is crucial to understanding and beating what your offspring is going through for BOTH of you. There's a lot of misinformation out there, and it will only hurt you in the long run.

Not to say you aren't totally right! The after care is incredibly important and very difficult. It takes a core shift in personality, world view and intense self reflection to achieve the stability and peace of mind to stay away from drugs.

[seagulls]

I am very realistic about what is going on and have been dealing with her and the hell that she lives in and it breaks my heart that for all the help and support i cant do a thing for her other than wait. Death is immenent and there are no two ways about it, with or without the heroin her  little 30kg body is not going to take much more, there has been a lot of physical damage that cant be repaired, even she succeeds and kicks this. I am not looking for cures at this stage, as for methadone, she fought that for 10 yrs says it rots your teeth, but when the heroin drought hit town she needed a back up and meth was it.  Eventually they push through the barriers of heroin on top of meth and end up taking them both. there are ways and means around everything, this experience has opened my eyes to another side of the world that normaly people would not even think about.  i am happy to chat and see what other people have experienced and maybe some of my experience could help somebody out there.

[mom86]

My son,22,addicted to heroin for 6 years...after staying clean for one year, he started again 3 weeks ago....he came to me for help and he signed up for detox...first hour he is calling me to go pick him up because they discharged him ..he had 2 pain killer with him in case he couldnt carry the pain...I know, stupid thing to do but don't they always act like this? any way..I am a low income parent and i had to borrow $250 dollars for gov. bed..now they discharged him and kept the money...he said that he cried and asked for a chance. they told him he can come back in one month but the money is gone.the question is how can I deal with his extreme disturbing behaviour for next 30 days and is there anyway I can ask them to not charge us again for the service we never used?(sorry for spellings mistakes...English is my second lang.)Thank you.

[Holliee]

wow that is awful about the money and he11 he is there for help so they should have checked his bags and him when he came in. I know the first time I went to rehab I also carried stuff in and boy the found it on me and flushed it well made me throw in and flush so yes they should give him another chance. Thats what he is there for to get help getting clean. I would fight that part w/them either let him stay or give me my money back or let come back for that money. I would make a huge fuss, Tell them that your going to write the paper that they threw him out after an hr and didnt even try to help him. I would make sure they knew your not willing to back down. I wish you the best and keep us posted but next time start a new question at top page click on post question and write you will get better responce that way some ppl never look at the post that are old. This one started back 2000.