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Percocet vs Vicodin
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Percocet vs Vicodin

The short story is I have fallen into abuse of perscription pills. Mostly Vicodin. Sometimes Percocet. I usually get clean for a few months and fall into a a few weeks of abuse and get clean again.

My habit has gotten worse in the last month. It has been going on for the 5th week now. It has been up to 14 to 15 pills daily of extra strength norco vicodin. I am trying to wean myself down right now.  My script ran out and I had to go the ER and they gave me Percocet there for a pain I was lying about.

  My question is how strong is the 500/325 percocet in relation to the 750 norco vicodin? I am trying to take only 10 percocet a day and survive. WHat does 10 percocet equate to in terms of ES vicodin?

I am having some pretty nasty nausea at night and heart palpitations and nausea dizzyness. I have cut down overnight from 14 to 15 pills daily to 10 pills daily and it is causing me some of the nastiest withdrawal I have ever had yet from it. I think I tried to taper off to quick, but in the past I have never had to taper like this. Usually I could save o4 or 5 pills and just take them when I got antsy from withdrawl (withdrawal) over the next one to two days. I can't do that this time.  You cannot die from opiate withdrawal can you?
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Avatar_f_tn
I am afraid I cannot answer all of your questions but I did not want you to think that you were being totally ignored.  I am probably the only one online at the moment - the rest will start getting on slowly but surely starting around 6 a.m. and I am sure many will take a stab at helping answer some of your questions.  I will tell you this, you WILL NOT die from opiate withdrawal; hopefully,  that will at least take some of the worry from you until the morning crew arrives and can help you with your other questions.  

You listed that you were taking 500/325 Percocet - that has to be wrong, it is probably 5/325.  Most people get it either in the 5 mg or 10 mg strengths, not even sure if it comes stronger.  I am currently taking 2 Percocets a day (10 mg each) and three Methadone a day (10 mg each).  Just guessing, I would say that one 5 mg Percocet would be the equivalent of maybe three or four ES Vicodin?  I don't think I would even feel I had taken anything if I were to take one 5 mg Percocet, I basically don't feel anything with the 10 mg anymore, so don't ask me why I am still taking them.  The ER must have given you a large RX for the Percocet if you are considering taking 10 of them a day.  I know the ER here in my town would never even think of giving a patient Percocet, the strongest thing they would send you home with would be an RX for 10 mg hydrocodone.

Good Luck friend.  Please keep posting and if you do not get the replies you need by mid morning, please post again.

Love, Cindy
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Avatar_n_tn
Yah I am mistaken. Your mg is correct.

I don't think your guess on equivalency  is correct.  If the percocet is more powerful than the ES norco I havent noticed it to be so. It doesn't make me feel as good as the vicodin does and it seems to take more to get there.

It is driving me out of my skin this night. It is 1:25 in the morning and even though I have taken ten pills today ( two norco this morning, then 8 percocet following the ER visit one of which was taken only an hour ago) It feels damn near like I am going cold turkey for some crazy reason.  And by my figuring I have only tapered my pill intake by around 1/3 of what I have been taking the last few weeks. It has never felt like this. Is it because In the past my crash's only lasted a few weeks and with less of a dose, where as now its been 5 weeks and a heavier daily dose the last two? I haven't felt this bad in the times in the past when I quit cold turkey after a few weeks of abuse. And right now (since yesterday)I am taking 10 a day! If I sound redundant I apologize. But I am dizzy and the worst part of it is the heart palpitations. I shouldn't let them get to me, but I do, and they scare me.  I will be trying to sleep and my chest will pound and it is like a big smash to my blood circulatory world. Like it is going to leap out of my chest.

It gets to me. My wife and baby are sleeping in bed next to me peacefully and I am losing it on the other end of the bed. I did this to myself but I cant detox I need to believe I can do this on my own. I am sticking to a strict taper, or who the hell knows maybe my taper needs to be stricter or less. I have no clue.

Confused in Seattle.
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Avatar_m_tn
Your asking the wrong question........
Asking about the strengths of narcotics when you probably already know the answer to the question...
Why aren't you asking about getting off narcotic pain pills and how to get free of drug use......
Why not ask questions about recovery and how to go about it and to sustain recovery...............
Your brain is controled by addiction and the addiction is controlling your thoughts and is managing your life......
To admit that that your powerless agains't your addiction and that your life has become unmanageable when you get this your question about narcotic strengths hopefully will be
a mute point.......
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Avatar_n_tn
I'm sorry, I thought I was asking about getting off Narcotics, thats why I want to know the strengths relative so I can taper appropriately.

Don't sell me your psycho babble bullshit you learned from recovery. I see people that go through treatment programs that relapse all of  the time. I don't believe in your school. A group of people cant make someone change, it is up to that person alone. Sure it helps some and its what some people need to get by. I already have a community of helpful people that cared about me long before I ever had an addiction problem. They didn't suddenly love me just because I had a problem with drugs, like your hypocritical society does. Oh I now love you more because you are so much like me. How egotistical and hypocritical is that?

Treatment centers endorse adultry, blamelessnes  ( it isn't your fault! it is a disease!). I tried it for a week and during this time I heard a young woman go on and on for over an hour about her life story. During this time she did alot of horrible things to her family. She neglected her kids leaving them with her parents the entire time to do drugs and party for years. So she could get laid from many different men, who she often cried " only wanted her for sex", and do every drug in the book, glorifying her high's along the way. At the end of her long story many of the group said things to her like " your a good mom". What the hell? Is this treatment? She is a horrible mother. It's all a great big lie. You are taught that a drug is a drug is a drug and an addict is an addict is an addict. I sit next to men who beat there wives. Who hit them in the face. Then everyone tells them they are a good person. I  am not like these people. Just because I have an addiction does not place me on there level of morality. TO blame every rotten thing I have ever done on drugs, so I can cope. Well the truth is I can cope, because as far as rotten things go I have had my share, but none of them come even close to putting me down with people that do things like punch their wives, or abandon there kids. I don't need a counselor and a phony group to tell me what I have done wasn't me, it was the drug and I really am a good person. I can accept accountability for what I have done.

Treatment centers are just another way for one person to replace an addiction with a new one. These people become your new friends, replacing your old friends( who In my case have nothing to do with the drugs I take, they are all good people) and in alot of cases a new woman or man for your old spouse. A popularity club for the counselors to feel like a small celebrity in their own right amongst a gene pool of addicts. Im glad that some people need this to get ok. I do not. Your going to respond and try to reduce my comments with a simpleton point of view like " you sound just like an addict, you need help".

I am an addict, and yes I do need help. But you think their is only one way to get help and you are wrong. I came here to find out the equivalent dose of Percocet 5mg to ES vicodin for purposes of completing my desire to taper off this drug.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hello, I'm from W. WA (Puyallupl/Graham).  I agree with alot of what you said.  The part about people telling addicts that their actions are forgiveable because they were high.  That doesn't help at all.  To answer your question about the equivalents, I would say to call a pharmacy and ask them.  They won't ask your name and you'll get an absolutely correct answer.  It may feel different because of how you are taking them (at night, full stomach etc.).  I also went to the Addiction exhibit at the Pacific Science Center a few months ago and it had a great part about how your state of mind totally changes how the "high" feels and how your body reacts to the drug.  They said that someone can take the same drug, same mg's but if they are with a different group of people or in a different environment it can cause them to OD.  I know it sounds crazy but I swear it was true.  Don't know if any of this helps you at all.  The other thing I would say is to look into the Suboxone program.  It's more pharmacutical help/less mental health counseling.  I'm starting it on Wednesday and I'm so relieved to know that there will be a light at the end of the w/d tunnel.  
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Avatar_n_tn
Yea ,your way sounds much better
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221016_tn?1196977061
I think it is more the affect the drug has on an individual. I notice the norcos are so much stronger than the percs (for me). I am a person that demerol does not work, they could give me a gallon and it would do nothing. Good luck with your taper!!!
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224927_tn?1189759426
To answer the original question...In my experience hydrocodone and oxycodone are relatively the same mg per mg.
I think people perfer oxycontin sometimes because they are available in 80mg tabs where as hydrocodone is rarely seen above 10mg.
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Avatar_m_tn
Tapering is the biggest scham an addict can do........
People taper perscription after perscription..........................

Knocking N/A because you had a bad experience or inpatient rehabs maybe you didn't like it because of the message they were trying to convey........
Addicts who want to continue to use generally don't ............
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Avatar_m_tn
Lurker welcome to the forum,,,,
I do have a soft side and have expressed it many times.........
Honesty is the key but addicts are great liars........
I am about recovery wondering if someone should take Vicodin or Percocet has nothing to do with recovery and the wrong mindset.......
How long have you been here and how many posts have you read of mine....
I have been posting for over 6 months.........
I have compassion for the person but none for the addict........
There is a difference and reasons why I am more firm with some than others.....

But I do hear what your saying..........
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Avatar_f_tn
A big part of any 12 step program in honesty and while I appreciate that you say what needs to be said it's possible you could find a little class and compassion  -- I'vre read man of your posts and find you to be high and mighty and offensive.  If you talk how you write you likley shame folks who are still trying to get their recovery legs underneath them away. Have a little compassion and tact.
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Avatar_f_tn
I've been "lurking" for several months - had 12 year sober in AA prior to landing full on into a Norco addiction - I'm tapering right now and then will be doing a whole lot hanging on during with drawal.  Thinking about trying Suboxone although I have some Xanax so i can use that to take the edge off during w/d.  I just said what I said because I have seen a lot of people in AA/NA meeting who are new trying to express something and not getting in quite right or not being quite ready to be hit in the face with reality like a mac truck and they leave.  I hadn't seen posts from Joel yet so I figured he was just starting to test the waters.  Hopefully folks here can do what is best - as they say in AA, take what you need, leave the rest.  Thanks beachtowel - I'll read more of your posts.
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Avatar_n_tn
So when you walk in a na meeting you have no compassion,,I"m confused
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Avatar_n_tn
My side of the street is just fine ty
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Avatar_f_tn
I read that to mean that he/she is compassionate towards people trying to get well but has a harder tm expression he compassion to an addict who maybe isn't really read to get hlp just yet.  I find the best way for me to behave when I cant say some thing supportive or compassionate is that I just say nothing, which while it can be awkward, makes me feel like I'm keeping my sie of the street clean.
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Avatar_m_tn
If you have read my post over the past six months you will see that I get responses most of the time in a very positive fashion.....
Most of the time I hear you very honest and consistant and you don't mess around......you get right to the point.......
Recently I have heard it is nice to see your soft side............

When did I ever say I go into a N/A meeting and not show compassion.........
For one thing I would never post anything that went on at my homegroup or any other meeting that I go to ............

I have no compassion for the addict...........but I do for the person.........
I will admit that I probably cause some bad feelings to some but addicts lie, cheat, steal, and always try to Manipulate there way.........and I will call the addict out..........because I am all about recovery it is so nice to read posts about people quitting, struggling but fighting their addictions.......
Then some want to know what should I take Percs or Vics and how strong are they............
Do you see the difference............
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Avatar_n_tn
yes
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Avatar_n_tn
I agree with tim....it really does depend on that particular person and their tolerance. For me, norcos are pretty strong but percocet seems stronger and lasts longer. But there are some people I know that take up to 3 percs 10mgs at a time and feel nada, yet they can take 2 norcs and be wasted.
I would suggest you taper off of whatever is stronger to you. I think someone here named fladdict has a good taper schedule, I've seen it before. Don't forget to copy the Thomas Recipe, too. Its very helpful.

Good luck, Brother!
Mike
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Avatar_n_tn
This might be off topic - but I'm frustrated at the difficulty in gettng PKs from doctors these days. My fiance is suffereing form a severe back injury, as in chonic pain. She goes to a chiroprator, but still has uncontrolled pain to a point were she does not sleep for days at a time, or eat for that matter. Her doctor is refusing to do anything other that prescribe ibuprofren or alleeve. We buy percocets on the black market because they are the only thing we've found that works for her pain. HOW CAN WE FIND A DOCTOR TO RECOGNIZE A GENUINE NEED?!?!?
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Avatar_m_tn
How about an orthopedic back specialist..........
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Avatar_n_tn
Hate to tell ya this but I dont think chiropractors can prescribe narcotics
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177036_tn?1192290235
Hi this is pre-written for new people… hope this helps:

It’s good to come clean with your doc concerning your desire to get off.  Ask him to prescribe clonidine, (not klonopin), and ativan.  These will help with sleep, RLS and anxiety.  These are best to try before formal detox and drugs like Suboxone.  I had to do formal detox because I tried everything else, including alcohol to get off and nothing worked for me.  Keep in mind that when you try… make it a good one!  Have some time off of work if you can… maybe a four day weekend or more.  Make the last day of work without any drugs, because the first day is usually the easiest.  Try your best to get clean and stay clean because the other methods require more potent drugs and you have to come off of those.  I am still on Suboxone and am a little worried about that… It does work well but the jury is out on, “At what Cost.”  I also learned while in detox, that the mind can psychosomatically create pain to “get’ the drug.  Another was that healing while using opiates greatly diminishes.  I would have sores on my hands that would take way too long to heal.
Best
Fish
I have to say this from the bottom of my heart,  Please do not keep playing around with these drugs they are very powerful ….. kinda like heroin in a pill and just as hard to get off once you attain the, "addicted" status.

Also you can go here to learn about suboxone

http://www.naabt.org/
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi;
Welcome to the forum sorry for the delay in post. Have you considered that maybe the percs are what is causing the symptoms you are having?
Just curious as I know that some people if they switch a narcotic and then go back to something they are used to taking, sometimes can have a different affect.
Just was wondering if this was considered or if you have taken percs before like this, meaning amounts or if it was mostly vics you did.
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Avatar_f_tn
Chiros can, well at least they used to. Back way before my back surgery my chiro prescribed me vics as well.

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Avatar_n_tn
Let me set this straight.

Oxycodone and Hydrocodone are NOT even close to being equal in potency.

Your withdrawal symptoms are for opiates in general, and are not limited only to the individual substances.  Cross tolerance and cross addiction are both existant as they both work on opoid receptors.  

If you were given percocet, be careful.  Percocet contains oxycodone with acetaminophin(tylenol) which is liver toxic.  Do your body a favor and atleast run a cold water extraction to remove this. There are many explainations on how to do this basic chemistry online. When your tolerance is high and you need to pop lots of pills, you end up ingesting extremely high amounts of acetaminophin.  Norcos do not contain any of this.

A friend of mine once claimed iboga treatment worked, I personally would not know, i am just a chemist.

suboxone might help you get off of it, but don't try to attempt to self medicate with that.  

Doctor supervision when dealing with opoid withdrawals is important, as most of the chemicals used to get off of them are opiates themselves, with steep dose response curves and overdose potential.



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Avatar_f_tn
Very informative post. thank you :)
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Avatar_n_tn
does anyone else ge bad pain in their legs when trying to quit....i have been taking about ten 500mg vicodin for the last month and b4 that i was taking histusin that has vicodin in it. and now i am trying to get off by takinf furinal (i misspell alot) which i get for migraines.....anyway i have been an addict off an on since the 7th grade and i am now a senior who is going to brown, and i dont know what i will do at college but right now i live in a town in which people are rich and admitting to this outloud would get the town talking about me, i dont know if anyone has any help on to get off it with out others knowing. any help is would be nice
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Avatar_m_tn
Look your not to far in 1 month, you'll do Ok with Cold Turkey, you have to want it. Take a long weekend tell everybody you've got the flu, you can do it if you really want too. Keep posting here this place will save you.
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Avatar_n_tn
dude you are sooo young and have a whole big life to live,but you will not be able to if you continue. Just know the longer you do it the more you will do and it will eventually take over your life. The life you were meant to enjoy. 2 hours of pleasure or mabey a little longer is not worth your life. You live and die by you and your soul only. If you continue you will just have a soul full of your addiction. Trust me I am 38 years old and am still fighting it. it has taken over my life i lie to my wife and have a brand new baby and the person i am fighting is me. it is a very lonely dark world. I am now getting help. But there is an underlined reason you are using. What is it you dont want to deal with. I promise get off these NOW and you live your life the right way and happy. good luck Dont be me
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429432_tn?1343597790
Percocet and oxycontin have absolutely NO effect on me whatsoever! Then I started on the vics..well you know the same old story we all have! Strange how that works, though...
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Avatar_m_tn
I Have Been Taking vicodin for The last month about Three a day of the 5/500!  You Think I will HaVe any wiThdrawls?
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Avatar_m_tn
Anyone No If Taking 3 vics a day 5/500 for a month will Cause serious wiThdrawls?
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Avatar_m_tn
plz do not give such BAD info cuz u can seriously hurt someone u just stated that there is no tylenol in norcos and that mtt friend is WRONG oh so very WRONG it has 325 mgs of it yes it has alot less than persay lortabs or vicodin but it still has at least 325 so before u go telling people that info that someone mite read and thnk there safe no what the heck ur talking about u never no whjo reads these posts and take the info and do god knows what wwith so plz know ur facts before posting. hojest mistake im sure but cmon that could be dangerous.
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