Permanently altered brain chemistry???

[RobynBanks]

Doc/Everyone
Do you think by taking narcotics for a prolonged period of time, the brain's chemistry (endorphins..seretonin uptake... all that lingo) is altered permanently or is it reversable?
I have been on and off narcotics for 12 years. I know withdrawl gets tougher phsycholgically but what about physically? Can I ever hope for normal pain/pleasure receptors...etc.. ?
Is that what also makes withdrawls so much harder (the brains inability to respond to pain normally)?
I hope you can make sense of this.
Thanks

[dienikad]

Not putting pills in the med-cabinet ehh -- sort of a paradox.

[mrmichael67]

No problem at all.  I get it from a clinic now.  In the past, I did get it from a pain doc.  I was in a very tight spot last August and had not much choice.  Now that I am where I am, I am doing wonderfully.  Luckily, I found a good clinic.  My body tolerates methadone extremely well.  The only problem I have and it's a mild one is constipation.  I remember morphine had me all tightened up, but methadone is much less for me at least.  I do know many get pretty bound by methadone.  But, other than the very slight constipation, I have no side effects from methadone whatsoever.  I will, sometime in the future, look into getting the methadone from a pain doc.  For now, the clinic is working fine.

[oldtimer]

please forgive me for not taking the time to read through all the posts to get the answer to this question, I have been visiting another board that advocates methadone, and I'm doing all the research that I can, I would like to know how do you get your methadone? do you go to a clinic or is it prescriped to you from a pain doctor or your pcp? again sorry for not taking the time to read through all..
thanks

[dienikad]

Whats a different Benzo? -- I am sorta waiting 20 days at this point and scrounging in the mean time. They can't cancel my script because I went in there asking questions right?

[mrchris]

For the guy trying to get the benzo script filled early.
1- You should not be hanging around with drug users.  People places and things.  Your meds should be well gaurded anyway.
2 - Benzo withdrawl is extremely dangerous with siezures a possibilty
3 - call your doctor, explain the situation and ask that he write you a script for a different benzo.  The pharmacy can't tell you no for a different benzo, they can still refuse to fill a script for the same one, even if you get a new paper script (which benzo's can be called in anyway they are not sched 2)

Chris

[mrmichael67]

I go there now and again.  Definitely not a regular.  Maybe I should go more often.  If they make a decision to stay on it for life, then that should be THEIR decision.  They can't say what another poster should do as nine out of ten times, they aren't telling all anyway.  So, the person has no info to go on.  I think that is terribly irresponsible.  It does people an injustice as does allowing the myths about methadone to go unchecked.  People should go in with their eyes open and armed with the FACTS, not bs.

[Thomas050]

Hi,
What happened to me and my g/f was that we were a bit naive with the methadone clinic and I partly blame us for not researching methadone more and I also blame the clinic (but perhaps because it was a private institution (made money only by it's clients) maybe that's why they didn't inform us of how difficult it is to get off).

Mrmichael67, please don't get me wrong. I do fully understand that for some it is the best answer. It's just that after what i went thru with her trying to detox from that stuff, I just really want to let people know that side of it. Because we didn't know that and I think perhaps if we did we would have explored some other options. We thought it (and it was presented to us that way) was a nice little detox program, the answer to our prayers. But we later found out it was also a severe addiction, ever bigger than the pain pills. Trading a monkey for a gorilla so to speak. Getting to the clinc put a huge strain on our lives, esp with her 3 young children. You can't miss your doses. But yea, later you get more take home privelages, that's good I guess, but that doesn't help the matter that you would like to eventually get free of it.

It's funny, when I speak of methadone that way people on it often tell me "no, it's totally possible to detox from it". I wish they would go to that watchdog site and tell that in the forums there. Because there they tell people not to even try to go off it. And that sux for people who go there that are seeking support in their effort to taper. Telling them it is possible and providing proof, while it may **** off some of the regulars, it would be very inspirational to others.

Cheers mate,
Thomas050

[mrmichael67]

I also think in this day and age, it is not necessary to suffer through a detox.  With buprenorphine or methadone, it can be made much easier.  Fear is the only thing stopping people from using methadone to detox.  And, that fear is from statements made all over the place.  How it "gets in the bones".  "You can't taper any lower than 40mg on it" (have NO idea where that came from.  I know a few currently on lower).  And, many more where they came from.  I have also seen some comments from someone in this thread that are absolutely absurd (no thomas 050, it wasn't you).  If it is used for a very short period of time (a few weeks), methadone can be used safely to detox.  So long as the person's head is right and they stay focused, they can have a much more comfortable detox with the two meds I mentioned.  No detox is without any discomfort, but hellish?  I am sure there are cases, but I have seen otherwise.  Not as hellish as cold turkey.  Thomas 050, I want to comment on your statements about getting off of methadone because I think you are right.  I firmly believe a person can detox and get off of methadone.  Or, use it to get off of another opiate or opioid.  If someone makes a decision to stay on it for the remainder of their life, that is fine and dandy.  But, they shouldn't encourage others to stay on it.  I just think people shouldn't generalize it because of something that might have happened to them.  Because of a bad experience, it is the methadone that did it.  Because it is in a bad part of town, it is the methadone that is bad.  My clinic isn't in a bad part of town.  And, all of it feeds into the fear that is completely unfounded.

[afriend]

Sorry Thomas03 if I misled you, I wasn't planning on c/t but more on the lines of skipping todays dose and start lowering my doses tomorrow as I have only been on methadone for about 2 weeks. Methadone stays in my system longer that any other narcotic that I have used and I feel that I could go a day without dosing, w/o getting sick. I know tapering from from opiates stronger than oxy are brutal for me, let alone c/t. I can take the physical part of the detox but the mind games are relentless. The lack of sleep turns seconds into hours, and hours into days. Thank you both for your response..mrmichael67 I will be e-mailing you, I have alot of questions for you. And Thomas03, DrRock will talk to you soon. Thanks again..afriend

[RobynBanks]

I dunno....its all so rational and I have never been 100% rational.
Thanks for all that responded to my neverending question. All I can say is I DID kick heroin & meth after and stayed clesn 7.5 years. Now i'm at 25mgs of meth due to a percocet plunge and its easy...it holds me for the most part and I am treated well by my doc...I walk up to my local pharmacy and am treated with respect. No problem there. Its all about being at peace with it and obviously I am not. I am also really not up to withdrawls after 17 years of fighting with an abusive brain. Guess I'll have to gear up for the next fight and forge ahead sooner or later. I'm sick of this war.
Good luck to all

[Thomas03]

are you kidding? Take it! Never cold turkey off methadone. One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, some methadone patients taper down to 30 mgs or so, then transition to some form of buprenorphine, probably suboxone. Apparently, a slow taper off bup is much easier than going to nil with methadone.

Thomas

[afriend]

I have been on (clinic) m/done for aprox 2 weeks (50 mgs) and its awesome not to wake up with that dope sick feeling. After hearing all the horror storys about detox from m/done I am having 2nd thoughts!!!Yes, went from oxys to herion. I've detoxed from herion and it was bad, detoxed from oxys and it was BRUTAL. To hear m/done is just about impossible, already has depression/anxiety setting in. I feel now that I have made a hasty decision. I didn't plan to use methadone for life. This subject, I know, is very complicated because there are so many factors to consider. I have my Sunday carry from the clinic sitting right here next to me (50 mgs), wondering wether I should drink it or not? What do you guys think?

[mrmichael67]

I take it for pain management.  That is where I stand on it.  And, for that use, it is an EXCELLENT med.  Besides constipation (not all of the time), I have no side effects either.  And, my tolerance is almost the same a few months away from being a year after starting it (august).  I believe methadone to be an option of last resort for those trying to get off of opioids.....LAST RESORT.  But, for some, it is a very viable option.  There are some who would wind up dead otherwise.

[mrmichael67]

Next time, don't put your pills in the med cabinet.

[peaz]

All the shitty stuff...........LOL

[freezing]

Suboxone returns the brain chemistry.  At least that's how is makes me feel.

I believe that my brain chemistry is permanently altered.  I awakened in total fear every day.  I wanted to move to Switzerland or somewhere I could have legal dope or something.

This suboxone make me feel back to normal again.  Other than constipation, there are no side effects.  I am happy again.  I am motivated.  I can live my life and enjoy my family again.

Well wishes to all.

freezing, no more.

[dienikad]

What in this world is NOT addictive?

[mrmichael67]

It is just absolutely NOT TRUE that methadone is impossible to detox from.  That is also another role for bup.  There are a lot of misconceptions about methadone.  If you ever have any questions about it, email me at ***@**** and I would be happy to answer them.  Even though it is very relevant, I just feel more comfortable discussing it on the side.

[mrmichael67]

There are other options.  Take your dose.

[mrmichael67]

I have never suggested methadone is for everyone.  I don't think it would have been a good idea for Thomas.  People take methadone for different reasons and it isn't always the stereotypical situation you suggest.  The good doc posted a couple of false statements (in my opinion) and I commented on it.  And, I am not talking about his whole post....just the opioid agonist part.  I have explained my stance on methadone until I damn near turned blue in the face over the span I have been here and I still get the same comments.  I certainly don't think a person taking 20 vics a day should go running to the clinic.....not at all.  Never said it.  But, generally saying methadone treatment is bad or whatever is not right either.  It is an absolute life saver for some.  And, that spans all of its uses....addict, pain patient, both.

[dienikad]

I've been taking 2 Xanax per night since May 1st.(10 days) and my script was intended to last one month (beats using opiates and beats wd's) and they were all stolen/taken by guests that I had at a get-together. So, in distress I went to CVS and asked them to re-fill it explaining the situation -- I have 2 refills.
The lady looked at me 100% ****-eyed! I am not abusing it at all! Are they going to altert my doc or something or cancel my script -- it has been helping so much .. I am pissed.
Been trying to quit narcotics this seems to be working well!

Thanks

[peaz]

Hi--I worked as a pharm tech so here's how things went where I worked---though your place may operate differently:  Once you have a legitimate script, it is NOT up to the pharmacist to decide, on his whim, which RX's to fill, and which ones to DENY....That is not in his scope of operations. What he CAN do or MIGHT do is call your MD and voice his reservations about why you may have wanted the script filled so early. (Surely you understand that refilling a benzo twenty days early is not exactly the same as asking for keflex early.....) If you have not been in the habit of requesting early refills, I would bet the pharmacist would tell you that you have to wait, ( insurance won't let you have them early, but, even w/ out insurance, you cannot hoard benzos!!!) but at the allotted time he would, indeed, fill it.  Was the " woman who looked at you cockeyed" a clerk, tech, or pharmacist?  That is crucial to the understanding of your predicament, because, like anywhere else, she may just be a judgmental *******( I call 'em like I see 'em) and not have any REAL authority.
   What was the final disposition?  Did they tell you to come back in twenty days or what?  Peazy

[Thomas03]

Lysanders, so good to hear from you! I

[dienikad]

The lady I talked to was indeed a technitian - the pharmacist did
not seem too happy either. Anyway - I gave her my insurance card and
my ID. She does her stuff on the computer then says, "this is too  
early". I was really taken back because it very clearly states that I
have 2 refills before 10-28-03.

Here I am 18 years old, clean off of all optiates since April-27, doing
something to help my self the legal way and these people are really
messing it up!

I say to her, "Your kidding, there is no way I can fill this?" -- she
says "Nope, not without a police report or another script from your MD
its too early!" -- Anyway, I wish I understood what went wrong better,
its not like I went in there bent out of shape!

Your advice has been very helpfull,
Thank you so much!

-Pete
MAIL: ***@****