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we in na focous on ourselves, we are the problem.
take away the drugs and we still have to deal with why we used.
it's not what we used that makes us addicts but why we used.
it reminds me of something my father spoke to me about his early
days in aa , people there would seperate themselves with what they drank beer drinkers over in that corner, wiskey drinkers over there, wine drinker there , ect , ect.
i found the same delema in na in the 70's herion addicts in one corner, speed freaks in the other corner, pill heads over there.
and pot heads where just looked at and asked what they were doing there. not a pretty site.
i have come to beleive that addiction is all about seperation
where ever you find seperation , wether it be the seperation of famly's , or split presonalities , when we seprearate ourselves
from the rest of society as addicts.
the word diabolic in its origonal greek comes from dia-boline
which means to seperate, the oppisite of synboline which means
to put together.
the prefex dia means 2 , which is the splitting of 1.
one is to be whole or holy, so the solution is unity.
the word attonement broken down is AT -ONE- MENT to be one
with everyone else through dropping our seperations.
by asking for forgivness
anyway i could go on and on
peace hippy
***@****
I owe it to the participants of this forum!
Teeitup!
NA! What a concept! The best thing about the NA meetings I attended were the tatoos on the women! There was a woman in one of my NA groups who had a stylized Egyptian snake tattoo running the length of her gorgeous body. I'm afraid all I could think about in THAT NA meeting was that tattoo.
My other NA meeting was dominated by one or two guys who were, as far as I could tell, irretrievably pissed off that they were heroin addicts. Never sat through so much anger in my life. I had to make myself transparent and let it all flow through me or I wouldn't have made it through those meetings.
The secretary of my other, other NA meeting began each meeting by telling us how she put a .357 magnum to her head that morning and tested how far she could pull back the trigger without the hammer dropping.
I can understand why a lot of people would be more comfortable in pills anon. In my case, I must confess that I am much more of a mind with my NA associates (except those really angry ones). I have always used drugs because I loved them. Scoring from a doctor was just a big, expensive, time-consuming, demeaning and galactically boring pain in the ass. So I stopped pretending to be a good guy and just did what I had to do. And I didn't (and still don't) feel a bit guilty about it. I don't think my attitude would win the day at a pill anon meeting ... probably no featured speaker gig for me at PA. Besides, I'd probably want to tell them about the tattooed NA girl, and how much I'd give to be the one who gave her that tattoo.
Thomas
The smaller meetings part is probably the key for me. I suffer from Panic attacks in large groups, especially if I have to speak. (And yes, I do know this is likely the key cause for using to begin with...)
As a rec alkie, it seemed I spent a lot of time in AA meetings listening to folks ***** about their neighbors dog, or the comment about the 357 magnum. While it is in my heart to help those folks if I can, I need something a little bit closer to home for the helping me part. Chronic pain folks, like those here, seem to have a lot in common.
PA sounded good, but I just didn't know what to expect at a meeting.
I am going to try next week, but, God willing, will still be here if you all haven't signed a petition to have me banned ;-). (WILL someboby PLEASE SHUT HIM UP? )
Rex
I maybe allready addicted to pills. These pills i have been taking for the last 7 years. Rivotril they are called. Are they in the benzo familly or something? I don't know much about pills, i just take them when they r prescribed.
These rivotril pills were prescribed to me 7 years ago when i started having panick attacks. The doc also gave me Zoloft and then changed to Effexor a few years back. I stopped Effexor, cold turkey, 2 months ago. Really weird withdrawl about 2 weeks, but i stuck to it. Life hasn't been easy, and i guess i did get depressed, so that is the reason for the pills.
But the last few months, i didn't feel that bad for depression.
Even been seeing a phsycologist and it helps...a bit.
Sometimes i get this real deep feeling to just take anything that could give me a high or to dull the emptiness in my soul. I drink a bit, when this happens, but i don't like the taste of alcohol, and my mom has been an alcoholic for the past 35 years, so i just have 1 or 2 drinks, just enough to feel a slight buzz. And yes, i do mix the Rivotril with the alcohol. I don't care at this point.
I don't even know if the Rivotril is addicting. I know that i have to triple my dose, just to get a slight feeling of calmness.
2 years ago, i had back surgery. Was on morphine pump for 4 days. What a cool feeling! Went home with a drug prescription. Has only enough for a week. Tried to renew the script with doc, but he was not available. (Neurosurgon in big city hospital).
Last week, i had really bad cramping so went to the er. They tested and told me i had IBS. (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). Was allowed Demerol. I asked for it as many times as i could. Even when the cramping had gone away after 48hrs, i still asked for the Demerol, it was such a good feeling!
Been out of the hospital for 4 days. I keep thinking about that good feeling with the Demerol and i'm trying real hard to restrain from going to any doc to ask for a painkiller that ressembles this Dermerol, even if now, my cramps r tolerable. (When i want or need something, i'll do anything to get it)
I've found this forum. Read alot of the posts. I feel like i'm just about to cross the fine line and become addicted. I know now, by reading all the posts, that in the longrun, it would not be of any help, but geez...it's just gnawing away at me right now.
I've managed to stop myself from finding a doc for a prescription, for now. What's helped me alot, and i really mean ALOT...is reading all of your posts.
Why am i writing today?
Well, i feel so on the edge, that i think that maybe, just maybe, if i confide in someone, anyone, about my weakness for these types of drugs, maybe i won't cross that fine line.
Thanks for listening.
You're like me, in that I truly fell in love with opiates, felt that they filled a hole somewhere in my psyche, although I've never determined what that hole is really about. The first opiate I used at age 17 was propoxyphene, a very low-grade pain killer but chemically related to methadone. That first night was akin to a religious experience and changed me forever. In both our cases, addiction came first, with tolerance and dependence following. The Rovotril you're using is Klonopin, a long acting benzo (Valium class drug). Klonopin is another very addictive 'pleasure' drug. Taper off the Rivotril. Don't abruptly discontinue it.
The difference between us is that you're looking for a solution now. I've been chasing the ultimate high for 30 years until now I think it might just be chasing me. I can't undo 30 years of opiate and benzo use. But you're not even at the point where you're experiencing withdrawal. I advise you to seek psychological help to determine why you feel such a compulsion to cop these highs. It isn't just that they feel so good, although your family history could make you susceptible to mind-altering drugs (history of alcoholism, etc). There's something you're trying to "fix" with these chemicals, whippet. Find out what it is, and, chances are, they'll be a simpler, healthier solution. Keep on with what you're doing, and you'll wind up a lifelong junkie like me. As the Marque de Sade once said to a priest, "You've only read about Hell. I've been there." Best of luck.
Thomas
Read your post, reread mine.
Again, read your post.
Again, read mine.
Do i seem a little...f***up?
Can't argue with you, after a good long think, i thunk i am a little over that fine line.
Ok, i admitt, i'm hooked.
Now, i best get my ass over to the psy and dig deep to find the reason why i need to numb.
Thanks Thomas02, i needed a good dose of reality.
Scared straight if i have to let go of the only pills i have left. Don't know if i can handle that right now.
Thomas
me i have never been to a pa meeting,
here in the philly area they have CA,
never been to one of them either.
over the years , i have noticed that most people who
went to more than one fellowship did not make it.
it seem ,s to work better when people commit to one place
and get involved with a home group. and get to know people
and let them get to know us.
all these places have the 12 steps and that is the meat and potatoes of the programs, tho fellowship with other s is
a strong plus, sorta like being part of a gang.
there are different approches to the 12 steps, when someone mentions one we are so quick to disagree, well i have put my foot in my mouth too many times over the years, these days i try to just take it all in and be nice.
as far as speaking in front of people goes , that comes after we break the ice,best to talk about today when speaking and talk
about the truth, the truth is the most interisting thing in the world, olover north told the truth about lying and it facinated the country.
After getting down to 60mgs/d and suffering for nigh on 3 weeks. I hate myself. Got drunk and took pills. I guess that I'll start again tomorrow.
Yes -- I'm that pathetic.
Next time something like this happens, try and log on to the forum and start reading. it is the best therapy for me.
Your not pathetic, just a human being that happens to be an addict. Remember take less today than yesterday, if you screw up start over. The key is to keep trying!
teeitup!
Check in with board and express your feelings, you are not alone.
Oh yeah, your not pathetic either, it took alot of courage to post today for you.
Strength and Honor
Peace to you great people!
Hippee your post above is awesome dear!
Merry Christmas ya'll and do not be too hard on yourself. If you relapse do not take that as an opportunity to keep using. the addict in us wants to get us down and then pepetrate our using cuz we feel failures.
Luv,
Suzie
i hpoe you are feeling great today
and if not today soon.
merry x mas and all that good stuff to you and yous.
one of the really helpfull things about the 12 step
programs is we get the chance to get the focus of
ourselves and on the person walking in the door with 1 day
and thay have no clue to what is going on in there lives
other than it is all bad. when we help others and share with others we help ourselves tremendosly, nothing worse for and addict then being alone..
even being here at this fourm is proof of the value of one addict helping another. results is what we are all looking for.
results breed enthusiam, and encouragement
one of my favorite lines in the na 12 step litature is.
THERE IS ONE THING MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE THAT WILL DEFEAT US IN OUR RECOVERY AND THAT IS AN ATTITUDE OF INTOLERENCE OR INDEFERENCE TWARDS SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLES.
spiritual principles are surrender, faith , acceptance, willingness, honesty, openmindedness, humilty, compassion,
empathy just to name a few.one of the things i do look up
the definition of each and try to practice them in my life on a daily basis. as addicts one of our biggests problems is fear,
fear that we are not going to be okay, fear that higher power is not going to take care of us. fear of rejection, seems like fear
is the root of almost all our problems.
anytime we talk about the root of our problema we getting into the relm of the spiritual.
we beging to realize that addiction is a spiritual problem.
thus the old saying I WENT TO MEETINgS TO SAVE MY ASS AND FOUNd OUT IT WAS ATTACHED TO MY SOUL.
and this has nothing to do with religion.
spiritualty and religion are two totoly different things.
peace and love michael////hippy
teeitup, unlike you, I need no reason such as depression or boredom to scarf narcotics. All I need is to get my hands on 'em! Like magic, they all disappear to wherever the hell the magician's rabit (and my socks in the dryer) go to.
In the past, I've likened my relationship to opiates to a love affair, which I meant and still mean literally. You know -- and I'd never admit this anywhere else -- but if my wife said clean up or get out, I'd seriously have to ponder the answer. I know I'd eventually do whatever it took to keep my wife, but it would be a struggle ...
Thomas
and i was clean at the time for about 60 days
i was coming off a year long run from qualides and
D'S AND T'S and i was on my last chance with my
wife and i walk out to the store for a paper
and ran into a freind , who asked if i wanted any dilauda
and of course i said how much, and the next thing i knew it was a week later and i was in jail, got out and went home to an empy house and my father was there waiting and he asked my WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, looked at him and said honestly and said i was
not thinking about anything , it was just an automatic reaction.
lloking back i realize i did not think, i was just powerless
over my reations, it was just my nature to use.
i sat in that empty house stare ing out the back door
looking at the empty sand box in the yard i built for my
son.
i was an addict who just could not say no.i was twnety three
and had just ruined my second marrage in 4 years.
i packed up my clothes and moved away realizing i could not be around my old freinds.
some days i think about packing up my things agian
and moving to mexico where the H IS GOOD AND THE OXY IS SOLD AT THE CORNER STORE, all this because i struggle to be average.
or quote un quote NORMAL.
YOU SPOKE ABOUT LEARNING TO USE PAIN MEDS RESPOSABILY
I HAVE YET TO FIGURE THAT TRICK OUT, IF I DID I WOULD
PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C96 FaraBell
(27-Dec-02) . Hello To All- First, I just want to say what a terrific site this is. It really allows people with Vicodin addictions to express themselves and allow others in, whereas in "the real world", that can not easily be done. Others who do not struggle with this just don't understand it. People who have an addiction such as this one NEED to talk about it because nobody really likes who they are while they are doing this. Maybe they do in the beginning (remember when it used to be fun once?!) but as they continue on that bumpy road, surely that will change. I mean, who ENJOYS downing 30-40 pills a day or MORE? I certainly didn't. Well, in the beginning, it was great. Here is a pill that allows me to be a Social Superwoman. I can do anything AT ALL....just as long as I have a few extra pills in my pocket. I started taking hydrocodone 7.5 for herniated disks in my lower back. Then, I just damn well enjoyed the way they made me feel. And so I graduated. I moved onto the 10/325mg. That was good for a little while UNTIL I discovered they make 15/325mg. I was taking about 20 a day-7 just to get out of bed and start my day. Finally, when I went to the island of Jamaica and, instead of enjoying the fun and sun, I was worried about my pill supply running out and I could not get out of bed before taking 6 pills to remove the withdrawl symptoms that were there lingering, waiting to attack me within the hour, I finally HAD IT with these "white devils". I got home from Jamaica on a Saturday and I checked into a 7 day inpatient detox on that Monday. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. They had me on a methadone detox which helped me somewhat. I was still sick for the first 3 days but NOTHING compared to what I would have been like had I done it alone at home. I know this from prior attempts on my own. I went into the detox on 11/11/02, got out on 11/19/02 and started outpatient groups 5 days a week on 11/22/02. I am currently in the outpatient group but now I go 3 days a week so that I can work a few days a week as I get to know the "me without pills". I haven't known that side of myself in a loooonnng time. And more importantly, I AM CLEAN and FREE. Because as long as you continue to take these pills, you are never free, never your own person. You make no decisions, the pills decide everything in your life for you. Everything! There are now some days I feel good and others I feel really bad. And it's on those bad days I hear my addiction calling me to it, trying to entice me back in. Those days are some of the hardest I have ever had to deal with. I never thought I would be able to get off of the Vic's in the first place and now here I am, clean for over a month. So, what keeps me from succumbing when those pills scream my name, you ask? Here's my secret: think of the things in your life that you want to happen and think of the things that are really and truly reachable and tangible. Think about the way you want to be towards your family and friends. Think about what you'd like to bring to the table in the relationships in your life. What do you want to offer to them? What would you like to be able to give back to these people? Well, once you stop taking those pills, you will be able to do the things you want to do, be the way you want to be, give back to others what they give to you, and aboveall, you will actually be pleasant to be around. Even-tempered! Imagine that one?! It will not happen overnight, it will happen slowly but SURELY. Hey, you didn't start out popping 20-30+ pills a day, did you? You had to work up to it. And if you committ yourself to this, you will work up to the point you want to be at. And with each passing day, you will feel better and better. Some days might feel like the end of the world, but that's life. THIS IS WHAT LIFE IS LIKE when you live it normally, without any mood-altering substances. And although sometimes it sucks, it still feels great...to FEEL again. I will be more than happy to help anyone of you and to answer any questions you may have, whether it's about addiction OR recovery. It all goes hand in hand. And remember, the only way you can successfully quit is if YOU want to do it and YOU-yourself- have had enough of living in hell. You cannot "do it for" your wife, husband, kids, sister, nephew, mother, etc...it is ALL ABOUT YOU!! Thank you for reading about my experience. Remember that every day is a journey...and a gift. Stick around and see what's in store for you!!
She claims to vomit all the time and claims she is dehydrated. Then she goes to the hospital and tells them she needs nausea shot in her IV and then she BEGS and i mean BEGS for something for pain. The docs always give her demerol.
Her friends and myself have exspressed our concern for her and the baby that is inside of her, to her and to her doc, but but she just keeps saying the docs say he is healthy and stong. I told her addiction cannot be detected by a fetal heart monitor or ultrasound but she insists that they can.
What more can i do???? I have talked to her doc. To her, her husband and a few others. WHAT CAN I DO FOR HER????? IM SCARED FOR HER AND HER BABY!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,
baby101
P.S. she refuses to go to couseling (including AA) and denies she has a prob.