Please do help me.......

[urbaap]

respected sir/mam,
i m a 23 yrs male. for the last few months i got habbitual to a cough syrup, named corex(brand name: phizer; composition: chloropheniramine maleate, codeine phosphate. now i have quit my habbit completely, but i want to know about the effects it should have left in my body. what r the forthcoming problems for me in future.
i shall be thankful to you.
yours sincerely,
honey.

[Thomas]

If you just quit, you should expect some withdrawal discomfort from the Codeine. Codeine is an opiate, so withdrawal symptoms will be consistent with opiate withdrawal. They include hot/cold sweats, muscle aches in the limbs, diahrea, insomnia, lack of energy, clumsiness, yawning. You're fortunate because you chose a cough syrup with a fairly small concentration of codeine, so your habit is probably not too large. This means your withdrawal symptoms may not be as severe as some of us go through. You should expect the most discomfort in the first 2-3 days, after which the symptoms will begin to subside. You can combat the diahrea with Imodium (immodium), the muscle aches with lots of hot baths or jacuzzis.

I have a complete "recipe" for opiate withdrawal and recovery which I'll send to you if you want it. If so, contact me at:

***@****

Thomas

[May]

I don't know much about cough syrups.  I know that when I had taken some in the past for pnemonia (pneumonia) (sp) it just made me sleep. But please listen to Thomas' advice.  I am so new to this that I feel it wouldn't be right to give you any other advice.  It's only been three days for me.  But everyone here has been so wonderful to me.  So please continue to write.

[GJ]

Hello! (can't recall your name, "thread starter person" I'll call you ;-))

My advice on what "might" happen to you is pretty limited, but I'm guessing Thomas is right. My question is: are (or WERE) you taking it to induce hallucinations? If that's the case, here's a bit of my personal history with taking cough medication for such purposes:

When I was 16-17 years old, being the young naïve soul that I was, I heard that taking large amounts of Coricidin Cough Tablets (a cough/cold suppressant for ppl with high blood pressure) would make me hallucinate and "see really cool stuff". Later I found out that the active ingredient involved is called "dextromethorphan hydrobromide" (check for this on the bottle or box of whatever you're taking). So on 4 or 5 occasions, I did it, with an average quantity of 16 pills taken ALL AT ONCE! On one fateful try, I took 24 tablets, and what followed was, to make a long story short, a brush with death! Convulsing, muscle spasms, hideous (indescribable) hot-cold sensations and skin-crawls, seeing everything move in slow-mo or "frames", at least an hour and ½ STRAIGHT, if not more, of vomiting (much of which was just bile), basically imagine being in hell with satan and all his evil whores and VOILA you're there!

So if you are quitting this (and were taking it for those reasons) then that is the best choice you could possibly make! I imagine that there will be some withdrawals, but most likely they will be relatively mild compared to, say, WD from an opiate or benzodiazepine. Expect some discomfort and almost definitely a sleepless night or two, but nothing out-of-this-world bad. Take care and good luck!

GJ

[Milo]

Hi, and welcome. A lot of what will happen depends on how much you've been taking. It sounds like you may have been taking relatively small amounts but for a long time. My best advice is to listen to Thomas and follow his "recipe" -- it has helped countless people here. Please feel free to write again, share more information, or ask for whatever help we can give you! Sincerely, Milo

[PHILLYCHAD]

Hey guys!

(sorry thread starter guy,I have nothing to add)

I just wanted to let you guys know that everything is "cool" with me. The funny thing is that I finially got sick of the drugs. I have been clean now for awhile. OK, so it's only been a week! The point is that I am sick and tired of the "game". I want to lead a normal life. I want to be able to wake up and look forward to the day without thinking about using. I don't know what happend but about a week ago I just stopped thinking about using. I mean it enters my mind throught the day but the point is that I can now go without it. I was just wondering if it could be possible that a person like myself could one day say "enough is enough" and just quit?    Chad

[Frank Lee]

You've come though a short-term, albiet scary,  addiction. Count your blessings. Most of us answering your post have bee abusing drugs for decades. You have your whole life in front of you. Learn from this. Take a deep breath and believe us, getting high simply on the joys of life will serve you well. Stay away from drugs. It’s a recreation few can afford and no one needs. Feel free to come back here for advice. We are your friends but we have a long history of abuse (at least I do). Don't end up like this. Take your sobriety and make it a habit. Each day is a gift - what will you do with it today?

What we will all do with this precious gift of life today - be numb or awake?

You have a second chance, go for it.

Peace,

Frankie lee

[Thomas]

Splendid to hear from my old friend! Sounds like you've made progress in the hardest place to do so -- the mind. I help people almost every day with the physical aspects of withdawal but I feel helpless when it comes to the everyday mind cravings and depression. You know, you might be able to ride this momentum by getting through withdrawal and then finding a good psycotherapist (the non-prescribing kind) to talk to. Find the right man or lady, and you can achieve almost anything. In AA and NA they call your statement "sick and tired of feeling sick and tired." Who knows, this might be that change you've waiting for. Good look to you Chad. I don't have to tell you what to expect from withdrawal

If you need the recipe or just want to talk, you know Chad that I am always happy to hear from one of my good friends, bad or good, threatening or welcoming -- we've been through a lot together, my friend. Let me know if I can help.

Thomas

[PHILLYCHAD]

AGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I just posted like three pages to you and got booted! I am so freakin' pissed!!!

Oh well, what can I do? I'll sum it all up again before I kill someone!

1. I am starting to go back to NA
2. I might be joining the Army!
3. I agree with your theroy on the white coats!
4. I need a shrink STAT!

What better way to quit dope then a little boot camp!
A friend of mine was teasing me the other day and handed me a bottle of oxy's.....I shook the bottle and pictured eating one and threw up all over his car! What the hell was that all about?

Talk soon, Chad

Oh yeah, I even started collecting coins again after a ten year drug induced break.......

[cindi]

HEY  MY MAIN LITTLE DUDE....Good for you,,,some people can just get sick of it,,I know several who just said **** it and that was that.....we get to a point where we are drained,,,emotionally, physically and financially....getting clean is easier than staying clean but i think you know that....I thought you were going to nursing school?  are you?  Chad  I am so proud of you...for everything but your honesty is what make me the most proud of you,,,you know I care and I am here for you and Deb.....I love the both of you             cin

[Witchywoman]

Hey there Chad! Glad to see you posting again. I wondered what was up with you and was hoping you were doing ok.

I can really relate to the "being sick of it" frame of mind. That was were I had gotten to when I finally decided it was time to get clean.  

I"m coming up on 2 months clean, and have not felt this good in years and years. I wake up with energy. I call my friends! I am back at work and clear headed and feel so damn grateful all the time for this gift of the path of recovery. I send you all the strength, love and support you may need to keep following your path towards the light, as Wiz would say.

I've not been able to post as much since going back to work, and I miss you guys so much!  I just don't have the time I did all this summer, when I was lying down on the couch recovery from my surgery and on the forum all the time, checking in and doing all I could to get myself well, and give as much as I could to others.

I'm still here, just won't be able to be as frequently vocal as before.

Anyone is welcome to email me anytime  ***@****

lots of love to you all,
WW

[cindi]

OK  My husband is having a streak of bad luck   he went to florida to find a job so we can move  he found three....problem....on the way to florida he brokE some kind 0f spring in his wheel...got it fixed.....then his radiator had a leak.....got that fixed....left my dads house today , blew a hose from the engine block to the water pump,,,,,so he is stranded On I 75 in florida for 3 hours tilL mY dad gets there with a new hose...WW>>>  WE NEED SOME GOOD POSITIVE ENERGY FROM YOU  THANKS     love you all

[Witchywoman]

Consider it done Cindi...sending magick sparkles of luck and light and *safety* your way, and your husband's way.

Dang, what a drag!!!!  I hope the matter gets smoothed out soon.
Hopefully the bumps will pass and you'll be settled into a better situation in no time.

lots of love,
WW

[cindi]

your magick sparkels worked  my dad found doug stranded got him a part and doug is now on his way back to florida for another night......now to get him home without the car breaking down...this is sick but,,he was stranded by some bushes,,i asked him where he would take a pee if he had too,,he said the bushes,,he was just hoping that some gators were not hiding there....thanks for your magic    love cin

[PHILLYCHAD]

Thanks guys! I don't know what to do with all of this sober time...I find myself cleaning up after all of the damage that has been done over the past ten months...So here I sit waiting to "find" myself. The funny thing is that I never thought I would get my original energy back. I thought it was lost forever! I just wanted to let anyone know that no matter how hopless they feel that they WILL recover if they just give it a chance.
I have this idea to make me rich!.........please read the post at the top of the screen! (boy! am I bored)

Chad from Philly "home of the beat bags!"

[Shea]

Ladies,

Thank you for you replies regarding the hair loss. I just want to stress the fact that this ISN'T usual hair loss. I am forty and have hair loss due to age and what have you. But when I started detox it was like I was on Chemo the amount I lose when I wash my hair. And it is still happening. I had VERY thick hair which is a blessing at the rate I am losing it. but this is not normal. Any ideas what type of Dr. I might go see about it. My GP knows nothing. Like I said it started about the 3rd day of detox. And continues. I do appreciate the feedback I received from ya all. I wish more people in the world could have the compassion that those on this forum have.

May you find peace....and some extra hair for me.

Shea

[cindi]

I'm 41,,wow that is hard to say.....(sticking finger in my throat)  I detoxed from demerol 12 years ago...percs, you name it   not a strand of hair fell out,,I have that thick Italian hair....I don't have any gray  (only when I dye it  LOL)  really the only gray I have is just at the temples.....Now,, I am going through peri menopause let see what happens now..Love to all cin

[SHOTSY]

Did a little research. Sometimes there is temporary hair loss when some substance or condition is causing a transitory. Possibly stopping the med? The distribution of your hair is largely controlled by your endocrine system through a group of hormones known as androgens. Now how this may relate to pain med ,I don't know. Maybe some one else does. But I myself have this problem. And I believe several factors play a role. 1. Our age 2.Our overall health 3.Stress 4. Hair treatments, if any. A dermatologist is who to see for various methods that might stop or restore the hair that is lost. And some where I had read that some people can  go thru a shedding off period. Where I got that I can't remember. Hair grows back within 6-24 months. You usually lose 50-100 strands a day (seems like alot more huh!)The average rate of growth is 1/2 in. a month. Each hair grows 2- 6 years then rests.At any time, about 85 percent of your hair is growing and the other 15 percent is resting. After it's rest period,, the hair falls out and a new one starts to grow. Okay, we know just about every thing about hair. But maybe this can lead you to find a more definitive answer. Let me know.  Shotsy

[Wiseone111]

Hi there everyone. I have been reading these messages for aboutthe last two months. And I finally took the leap and I am in the process of getting off of Lortab(Hydrocodone) addiction.
It has been almost a week sinve my last full day on the pills. A week ago today i was taking 6-8 pills a day sometimes more. The wednesday following that i broke down and took 1-1/2. Since wednesday I have not taken anything except the vitamins, vallium, and stuff listed in Thomas' recipe. My question is this.
How long does it take for the weird feeling in my stomach and the cold sweats to go away. I really feel like i am almost over the hump here. Would just be nice to havean indication of about how long i hace left.

thanks,
-W

[Hope]

I don't know if any of you remember me. I only posted a few times early last summer. But I kept reading this board daily, hanging on to every word, hoping I could find the recovery that some of you have. Chad, thank you for your comment about...well, I can't even remember it now because my brain is fried but basically you said, "Don't give up trying for recovery".  I have tried so many times to stop drugs and alcohol, I don't remember the number. A LOT! Well, on September 6th, I checked into an inpatient treatment center in south Texas. The program lasted approx. 30 days. It was surprising to me when i got there that at least 60-70% of the other patients were also addicted to prescription opiates or prescriptions of some kind. I was most scared about the detox. Have tried that several times and just couldn't hang, ya know?. Well, the program was the best experience I have ever had. Staff were great, fellow patients were great, facility was great(beautiful...in the country..deer everywhere!), and also there was a beautiful little chapel on campus one could go to at any time.  I really grasped, FINALLY, AA and the 12 steps.  See, I have resisted AA and NA for SO long. I am a licensed counselor and we basically have two schools of thought in my field.  One is pro-AA and the other is definitely against AA and the 12 steps.  I was at the point though, that if they told me in order to be in AA, I had to eat live worms, I would have!  I was THAT willing! I was fed up! I couldn't live like that anymore and my way obviously wasn't working. I re-connected with my Higher Power. I even decided to move into a half-way house in that same area of Texas after treatment for a little while to get some more recovery and structure.  Well, to make a long story short, I screwed up. I left treatment a week early. I just got it in my mind one day that I was ready to leave and I did. (I believe the Big Book calls this mental obsession) Of course, the counselors and my new friends in tx. tried to talk me out of it, but once I get my mind on something, I DON'T BUDGE! I drove the six hour drive home. I stopped halfway, pulled over to the side of the road and just shook and cried and asked myself, "What the hell am I doing????"  But, of course, my Pride and Ego ruled and I came on home. I can still go to the halfway house if I choose to. I could also go back to finish treatment, tail between my legs.  But for the past ten days I have basically been sitting in my apartment using drugs when I can get a hold of something and just being stuck.  I was determined and SURE I was going to try for the 90 meetings in 90 days after treatment. How many AA meetings have I gone to? nilch. I'm not working, was on Family Medical Leave until I used up all my sick leave and then I resigned effective yesterday.  God, I hope I have at least one more paycheck coming. To understand how far down I have fallen, I have been a Licensed Counselor for the past 16 years and for the past 2 years I was the Director of a program, supervising 30 staff, and managing a budget of over 1.5 million dollars. My parents and siblings are fed up and beyond the point where they are willing to help. So here I am 39 years old, a "professional" (I need to get rid of that Ego trip real quick!) and don't know where my next paycheck will come from.  Luckily, I don't have kids to support or a husband who I'm dragging through all this. I do know this: I'm NOT getting back into the counseling field anytime soon or maybe ever, I HAVE to stop using and get back into recovery, I have to swallow my pride, and I have to make a decision by the end of the month because I have to be out of my apartment. Well, sorry for the LONG post, but I just had to get this off my chest. I have been SOOOO isolated.  It was great getting back on here and seeing all the familiar names... as well as some new ones!!! :-)  Where is Wizard? Bye for now.

Hope

[Thomas]

is there any chance the detox/recovery center will take you back and settle for financial arrangements of some kind? You might have a better chance walking back into a place that knows you than going into a strange place cold. By the way, after I was arrested for forging prescriptions a few years back, I lived in a residential center which I paid for week by week. I was lucky enough to have some well-paying freelance writing jobs to cover the charges. I did do the 90 meetings in 90 days (easier to do than you would think) and I remained sober for six months -- the longest period in thirty years of using. Of course, I failed to work a program as soon as I got the law off my back and soon relapsed. But it can work. There are many, many success stories. Your problem seems to be financial. Why not try the place you just left? You never know ... Good luck.

[Hope]

Thanks for the response! At the treatment center I just left, I had about five days left before I was discharged. I know they would take me back because I have talked to my counselor down there a couple of times and she said I could come back.  The thing is, I don't know about going back for just 5 days, ya know? Of course, the halfway house, which is in the same city, might take me in I think.  See, I was supposed to show up there on Monday to move in, but I kind of didn't.  I had written them a check for $300 for the first month's rent which I certainly don't expect back sense they saved a bed for me and everything. I didn't call them or anything, just didn't show up.  Just like an addict, huh?  In the halfway house, I would be sharing a room with 4 other women....one bathroom.  The one other bedroom has three women...one bathroom.  Okay, I know it is petty to worry about that kind of arrangement when my very life is at stake. I am in such a state of confusion and indecision.  UGH. I did find out I got one last paycheck from my work on the 15th which should last me the rest of the month and then some.  I appreciate so much, your responding back to me.  It's great to have contact with other addicts. Actually, just contact with people, period, as I have been isolating.  Thanks for your suggestion.  I think the main thing keeping me from calling the halfway house to see if there's still a bed for me is Pride. That ugly thing that keeps tripping me up!  I can't get over being soooo ashamed of being a junkie! When I am around other recovering addicts though, I feel at home. Which is why I loved most of the experience of treatment.  As far as money, I am not too, too worried as I know I can get a job.  And a friend has offered to let me live in his extra bedroom until I can get back on my feet.  I have a master's degree and so surely I can find something.  However, with the state of the world and our country right now, I shouldn't be so over-confident.  Well, thanks again for your response, Thomas.

H

[Wizard]

Hope, you asked where is Wizard......here I am and am doing quite well. I missed all of you here on the forum and thought I'd try to catch up a bit. There seems to be so much! To you HOPE, I say look to your screen name. HOPE....never give up HOPE. That's what got me through the worst of times. Hope is what I received from all the good "Angels" here. Pride will keep you down as sure as the sun will rise. Let it go and know that there are many "educated professionals" just like you in the same boat. Here and walking all over this world. W.W. has the key. "TRUTH" have it with yourself and you have taken the first step on the path to the Light of freedom. Be true to your own heart and the hell with what others may think. If you are not happy with yourself and your life what difference does what others think matter anyway? Remember that even relapse is meaningless as long as you continue to reach for the Light of freedom and NEVER give up trying. You will not find a better group of friends and family as you will find here. KEEP TRYING!

To all my friends here, Cin, Thomas, Milo, Skipper, Franklee, W.W., Jenny, PHILLYCHAD, Angelica and any who I may have forgotten to name, (forgive me)I Love and miss you all so much! I am over six months clean after decades of abusing the "Dragon" and LOVING LIFE TO IT'S FULLEST!!!!!!! Blessings to you all and GOD BLESS AMERICA! Wiz Dust and Rainbows on all the forums 'angels"
Power & Magick 2 U ALL,
Peace & Light on U 2,
Love Wiz

[Wizard]

To jbear, J.B., Lea and all the new people here too. My above post was meant to include you also but space was running out and I didn't want to lose my book I was writing. LOL
To Danielincc and any "post deleters" Keep on stirring the pot!Heee Heee. You crack me up!!!!! Remember, you can delete the posts, censor the content, be judgemental and so on and so forth.
BUT YOU CAN'T delete or censor the MAGICK, LOVE, SUPPORT and RAINBOWS that the special angels here (and you know who you are)
have for one another. The names may change and the faces too, but OUR CONNECTIONS never will!
HA! I'm back on my bike and in the wind!!!!!
Power & Magick 2 U all,
Peace & Light on us 2
Wiz

[Milo]

Hey Wiz, it's great to hear you're doing so well! Talk about a success story. Always remember your kindness & wisdom got me through some dark days,  and I'll never forget it! -- your pal Li'l Milo

[Wizard]

Milo my brother! It's good to see you giving back to forum! You know you are one of the "special angels" I refer to. You have never been out of my thoughts and prayers and I too will never forget! Peace to you Bro! Stay strong, stay focused and reach for that Light always!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[cindi]

DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE BACK?  OH PLEASE OH PLESE OH PLease?????i don't usually beg but i missed you so damn much,,,late  for work again   more later to you all..so much to say          oh wiz  please????????????????????????????  hee hee        love cin

[SHOTSY]

HI!! I know this going to sound corny,bbuutttt........I feel like I've just meet the great and powerful OZ.I've been reading about you for sometime now and have been wondering when I would get to meet you. It makes me feel like Dorthy (no I'm not hallucinating- just drawing some parallels). I loved the man behind the curtain- his wisdom and compassion. The reality of his advice to all. Even Dorthy wanting to get back to Kansas- she had the power the whole time-she only have to believe it . Thank you Wizard for being-   Truly, Shotsy

[susanlea]

Hello my friend.  I knew I felt Magic in the air...........

[Wizard]

What a great morning to be alive! It's a pleasure to meet you Shotsy. Let me tell you that I'm overwelmed by the responses here but I must tell you that like most people here I AM AN ADDICT. A recovering one but an addict just the same. No more, no less. You said it well when you wrote Dorothy had it in her all the time. ALL of us have it in us.......ALL THE TIME. When the time is right WE ALL can reach down deep and pull up the strength to do what is needed to REACH THE LIGHT of FREEDOM! With the help of the many "Angels" here and on our shoulders (Skip) prayers are answered. Bless you all, for you have made me feel very wonderfully warm this October morning.
Lea, you said it too......MAGICK is in the air....your Magick!
Power & Magick 2 U all,
Wiz

[Witchywoman]

Wiz!!

Yay! ::does a little happy dance

Nice to see you here.

magick sparkles to you and lots of love,

WW

[jennyfla]

You sound wonderful!!!!!
That made my day seeing your post, i've missed you!  
Glad to see you are doing great, you deserve nothing less!!!!!
Thank you for the wizard dust!!! :)
Lv Jenny

[Wizard]

Nice to see you here too Jenny :-) If your still here you are still trying and I know you will reach that Light of freedom my friend. Even in my absence I never left you and your husband out of my prayers. May God bless and keep you always.
luv,
Wiz

[Wizard]

Hey Dorothy, this is the Cheeze Wiz calling! I sent you a rainbow and had my flying monkey drop me off here for a bit. (Oh yea, don't pay attention to the guy behind the curtain)My balloon is leaving for Kansas soon so WHERE ARE YOU? ROFLMAOAPMP!
Throwing the Wiz Dust your way as always. Hope your day went well and I'll catch up with you later.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Thomas]

Hope, you have nothing to be ashamed of for becoming addicted to drugs that are inherently addictive!

I am convinced that shame itself is far more toxic than any drug could ever be. It's shame that stops people from asking for help until their problem is so bad they can't hide it. It's shame that perpetuates an addict's suffering. It's shame that makes addicts live lives of utter loneliness, regardless of whether they're surrounded by family, co-workers or friends. You all know what I mean. That feeling that you alone hold a shameful secret about yourself that you can never share with anyone. That, to me, is the very definition of loneliness and despair.

Well, I say enough is enough! I refuse to be ashamed of what I am any longer. I can say with absolute conviction that all my friends that make up this forum are the most wonderful, warm, decent and caring human beings that I have ever been privileged to know. I say this without fear of contradiction, for I have months of posts on this site to back me up and then some. I would love to single each one of you out, for I feel I know a little part of all your souls and could say so much to you, but the thought of leaving even one person out (I was just gifted with an after-dinner bowel full of Humboldt) would distress me and depress me. So I address you as one.

I have at one time or another on this forum experienced virtually every emotion in the "spectrum humanitus." (Don't blame the Romans, I made up the term.) You can be hilarious, cool, wise or serenely Buddha-like. You can be humble and humbling, too. I confess that every time I hear from someone who was helped by my recipe my eyes well up with tears of happiness and gratitude, that I, an abject drug fiend before he was a chronic pain patient, could take a little of his suffering and tragic obsession and distill it into a healing power that actually makes a difference in a person's life ... I feel like God does smile down upon me despite my "irregularities." He knows I love drugs but he also knows I love humanity. For all our shortcomings, billions of people live in piece around the world, and every once in a while someone such as Bach, Mozart or Einstein is born. Or Sam Kinison, for that matter. Or, best of all, just the person you meet at the bustop. We all share a certain nobility. Even us, the shunned and despised drug fiends who usually harm no one save themselves and yet are hunted and imprisoned like dangerous animals, have a little bit of Adam in us, who was touched by God and given consciousness.

I feel good about being human tonight, but even better for knowing all of you. You are my family that lives in my heart and in my mind. You are the loved ones who know the real me. ….And you know -- all I really wanted to say in this post was thank you all for being my friend and accepting me, faults and all. You're all simply the greatest in my book. There are no finer companions, virtual or in the flesh.

Thomas

[jennyfla]

What a beautiful, heartfilled post Thomas!!!!!
You are a true asset to this board, and your words of wisdom and care are always looked upon as a gift (they are by me anyway)!
Keep being 'you', the special person that you are!!!
Your words where so beautiful, you made my heart happy to read them tonight.... thanks again because i need alittle happiness in my heart tonight... really, really bad!!!!!
Lv forever, Jenny

[jennyfla]

Ah, what sweet thoughts wizard, and thank you both for the encouragement and the prayers!
I need all the help i can get at this point, so i appreciate every single prayer of hope!!!
May your life be happy for the rest of your days!!!!
Lv Jenny

[Hope]

Thanks so much for your words and encouragment.  I agree that Pride and Shame are both destructive. And they go hand in hand, don't they? I know I must rid myself of these two toxins if I am to get better.  When I am here on the board or at an AA meeting or when I was in treatment with other Dope Feinds like myself, I always feel so good.  Not ashamed. Not better, not worse, not DIFFERENT.  Just accepted, welcomed, and loved.  I truly do feel magick and Light on this board.  Thank you all for sharing your stories and your lives here so we can all have HOPE of ridding ourselves of the dragon.
I am starting my fourth day without the opiates (hydrocodone/oxycodone) and am feeling quite a bit better, but still shaky and weak.  Thomas, get a kleenex, because I too have benefited from your recipe for withdrawal!  :-) Thank you so much.
Now if I can just make myself get out of the house today and do SOMETHING. Anything!  Have a great, drug-free day all!

Hope

[Hope]

By the way, Thomas, what you wrote was beautiful and inspiring! I have re-read it several times.  All dope fiends should have the opportunity to read your essay and be inspired by it. You can truly use your gift, you know.  For us addicts.  Thanks for your words.

Hope

[Wizard]

Thomas my friend, as usual you come through with words and feelings that touch not only home but also the heart. I thought I'd take a peak here this morning and as I read your post I looked up into the bedroom mirror and found myself feeling pretty silly. You see, I had gotten dressed up in my leathers to ride my Harley to work today and felt pretty "macho rough and tuff" till I read your post. You see your words brought tears to my eyes as I know they came from your HUGE HEART. Thank you my friend for being who you are and I pray that you have a very Magickal weekend.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
P.S. About that after dinner "Humboldt", did you have it in "Brownies"? Is that how you had a "Bowel" full or did you mean Bowl? LOL I love you Bro!

[Witchywoman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Thomas, you rock!

You have done so much to help decrease the shame I felt for being an addict.  Just a few simple sentences from you diffused years of shame for my little secret, and brought me to honesty, which brought me to the taste of freedom that I enjoy now.

Many, many others on this site helped me enormously as well, and still do. I won't mention names for fear of leaving someone out as well, but I'm sure you all know who you are. Really, every poster, and every post helps me...especially those of you who are revealing over and over, your Truth, no matter what it is.

love,

WW

[Thomas]

thank you, my good friends. Something told me it was time to say those words ... and Wiz, I meant a pipe full -- a rare treat to say the least.
I think we have all created a very special world here on this forum, free of judgement, shame and prejudice, where we can instill our true selves in these modest little messages that take on so much meaning when they're interpreted and expanded upon by our fellows on this forum. No one planned it to work out this way, which makes it that much more miraculous. "Citizens" can shun us and judge us all they like, but we collectively know the truth about our humanity and capacity to love. Here's hoping we all have a positive day and that those amoing us in pain find some relief and peace.

Thomas

[Thomas]

Thanks for the encouragement to write. I make my daily living writing mostly technical white papers and online courses in various programming languages, but I yearn to write something from my heart, something true, something with value for my fellow man. A writer is always at his best when he writes about what he has actually lived. Following that wisdom, I am led inexorably back to my life as an addict, which conveniently covers my entire adult life. I have said this several times before, but I see the various institutionalized "recovery entities," whether they be 28-day in house organizations or therapy centered around the psychologist's couch, as missing some profound, transforming truth about what makes us use and keeps us using. My thinking always leads me back to the topic of shame-based treatment and enforcement. I am convinced that if we eliminated shame as a component in the addiction experience, we could help so many more people than we do now as a society.

Somewhere back in the olden days, drug addiction was deliberately imprinted with the stain of moral degradation if not with evil pure and simple. I am contemplating writing a book under a pseudonym (to protect myself and my family) which would by necessity revisit my long career as a drug seeking addict but which would try to raise the level of discourse above the usual moralizing and law enforcement-oriented approaches to the condition (not problem) of addiction.

I thought Michael Douglas put it well in the movie Traffic when he asked, "How do we wage a war on drugs when the "enemy" are our own brothers, sisters and children? How do you wage war on your own family?"

What I'm striving for is a breakthrough in how we perceive addiction. I feel I'm nearing the answer, but as yet have not found it. I am, however, convinced that the answer will come out of an examination of shame -- the stigma, the emotion, the poisonous cloud that hides the truth from our eyes as it destroys all who are engulfed by it. I don't have that essential answer yet, but I'm trying - for me, for my forum friends, for all mankind. As John Dunne reasoned, "I am involved in all mankind." Its tragedies are my tragedies, its pain is my pain, its cruelty and compassion are part of me.

An addict spends so much of his life taking care of, and thinking exclusively about, himself. Now, I want to give something back to my fellow man. For I am involved in all mankind as surely as John Dunne. Alas, I lack Dunne's genius, but surely out of thirty years of addiction and pain, there must be something I can offer to lift up and bring into the light those among us who consider themselves addicts. I'm after some transforming, redeeming truth that I can't quite see yet. But I'm searching, and all of you have in your own ways kept me on the path leading to that essential truth that will change everything. I may fail to find this truth, but the quest itself may be part of that great truth. I go on, and I hope. That is all I can do.

Peace

Thomas  

[Witchywoman]

Shame is a master emotion. It is the opposite of love, but its exploration leads straight to the heart of love. I love paradoxes!

Pia Mellody (NOT Melody Beaty..different people) has a theory that the condition of addiction is set up by the fact that we live in a shame based society.  I define shame as a fundemental core feeling of "being not ok". Shame is a 'being' feeling, regarding our core, whereas guilt is a "doing" feeling, related to our judgements about behaviors. Shame is an "I am" feeling.

Healing core shame sets us free. I base my entire therapy practice on going after core shame, and trying to liberate it. When it works, it works.  I know that it was diffusing my shame of my addiction that lead me to want to get free of it.

I feel like I"m psychobabbling here...but shame is a topic near and dear to my heart, so I had to respond.

I can't wait to read your book!
love,
WW

[jennyfla]

Shame and guilt are two things that i seemed to have mastered in my lifetime.  Why do i have to feel so much guilt for everything all of the time.  I'm not talking about my own guilt only, i must thing that it's not enough to have my own tremendous self-guilt, i have to take on the entire families' guilt as well!  What's with that!?!?!?!?!?
Ugh!
I know it's part of my blasted 'co-dependency' ways, but how do you make it stop?  I just had to comment on this topic because this is something that haunts me most of all in my life!
Thanks for listening!  :)
Lv Jenny

[Milo]

Hi, I have always enjoyed reading your posts as they are very insightful. Your last post about shame and guilt, being and doing -- I understand every word of it -- I'm coming across those concept everywhere right now -- in different books, in therapy, in talking with friends, here on the board. Being a part of this forum has helped me greatly in reducing the shame of addiction and abuse, as Thomas so beautifully described -- but there's still so much remaining. The fact that I'm seeing/hearing this  (the harm caused by toxic shame) everywhere I turn -- and that it is meaningful to me -- tells me it's something I need to truly work on and hopefully confront & conquer in my life. So if you want to "psycho-babble" some more, I'd love to hear more of your ideas about healing and moving beyond shame. Sincerely, Li'l Milo

[cindi]

My favorite little Wiccan,,,,i am with Milo and Jenny   keep on babbling i enjoy your posts  my life has so much guilt..about everything,,I look at my kids and wonder how i would ever if ever tell them about my addictions and my troubles with the law,,I live with guilt and shame of so many other things that have happened in my past .....I have often spoke of my mom who has told me to hold my head up and look em in the eyes and never be ashamed of what i have done..I came from her and she has never been ashamed of me..so when i need to hear it again she isn't here....so go ahead and talk    love you and need you all   cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Well, we made it back to Indiana!  Had a very good time in Mexico.  I'm half tempted to sell the farm and move down there and live like a King!  The whole time we were down there, we heard nothing about terrorism, war, anthrax, ect. That in itself was a blessing.  Know what I mean?

I hope everybody here are doing just fine!  I haven't had time to read much but caught something about guilt and shame.  They are two very human emotions that kind of keep us in line.  Fear is another one that is even more basic to us as beings.  People who can conquer these emotions are usually called psychopaths.

Anyway,  I have to go mow again?  It's a shame to come home and see my yard like this, I feel guilty.  And I'm afraid the battery on the tractor might be dead again.  Maybe I should just blow the whole idea off and watch football!  J.B.

[cindi]

Hey you,  missed ya,,I'm glad you had all that time for R & R  and lived the life of a king......do NOT  I REPEAT DO NOT MOW R THE LAWN>>>your vacation does not officially end until mondya morning,,,LOL   go and watch football....I am going back to bed,,,to tired and sick to even worry about anything right now..
some kind of virus or something,,,,glad you made it back home safe and sound  and you truly were missed a whole bunch  love cin

[Witchywoman]

It is complex, but also very simple.

When you are feeling intense, horrible, life numbing Shame, that is when you most need to love yourself. Love yourself, right into the center of where you feel most horrible about yourself..right into the point that makes you shrink back...love yourself not in spite of the shame, but BECAUSE of the shame..love yourself, warts and all, always and no matter what.

That is the core of what heals, in my humble belief. And when you can't do it for yourself, find others who can do it for you until you can do it for yourself.

Easier said than done, but it is what works for me. And it is not like you just do it once and then it is over. We have to keep doing it forever. Life gives us endless opportunities to **** up..and we do...and sometimes we don't...but either way, each time is a chance to love ourselves deep into the core of the toxic shame we carry from this world's wacky ways.

Higher power also REALLY helps heal core shame..if you can surrender and believe that a higher power loves you warts and all.

Again, easier said than done..I'll do it for you, all of you, always, as you have done it for it me.

I love you all,
WW

[Wizard]

Okay, here goes.....I LOVE YOU,I LOVE YOU,I LOVE YOU,I LOVE YOU,EYE LUV U,EYE LUV U,EYE WUV EWE,U AY WUV,EWE I LOVE,YOU I LOVE :-)
Phew! Now you have to Love me back, Producing Heiniken Methane and all!
GEEZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEE, did I say that? It was a long day but what the hell. Hope your weekend went well my friend! Blessings to you as always.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Rainbows & Wiz Dust 2 U 2,
Wiz :=)

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What is Heineken Methane(in your above post)?  A polite phrasing of "beer fart"?  Well, there's no shame in that as long as you don't produce it in front of a lady.  On the upside, a good methane discharge can end a verbal confrontation with the opposite sex immediately!  I love it when they literally fly out of the room as though they were shot out of a cannon!  J.B.

[Wizard]

Good Morning J.B. Yep, you guessed my polite term. I know yesterdays posts got a little nuts and are not my usual when I am here but after Skipper made the referance to the aboved no-name, I just couldn't stop laughing and it just looked to me like we needed a bunch of laughing. I sincerely hope I didn't offend anybody but the mental picture had me rolling on the floor. I just love everyone here so much that when I see hackles flying I just want to turn it around as much as I can and the best way I know is laughter and love. My return has found so many new WONDERFUL ANGELS here that it brings much joy to my heart to see the old and the new interacting so well and sharing so much. I only wish I had more time to get to know everyone. I hope this day brings much peace and joy to you and yours. I'm off to work now but I shall be thinking of all the special people here as I do. That keeps putting a smile on my face and a Magickal twinkle in my heart!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[skipper]

allright when i posted to danny-boy, i was just blowing off some
of th excess my over-active brain produces (hey a brain fart?).
i never intended for it to goe this fart!

[skipper]

in all seriousness...really! I'm really pleased you two are finding
the meanderings of my gutter mind (and mouth) so entertaining! If
i had a bag of H i would fasify my shot schedule. I really happy
to bring so much mirth to the forum!!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

Hi sweetie,
I just wanted to tell you that 'I love you' right back!!!
I will always be here to remind you that you a wonderful person, and that you have helped me in so many many ways!!!
I always look forward to reading your posts, you are "one special lady"!!!!!!!
You sound so sure of yourself and very confident, hearing these things from you makes me feel like maybe i'm not really an ok person, more put together than i think i am.
I walk around with so much guilt and shame on my little shoulders all of the time, maybe that's why my shoulders are always hurting (lol!)  You make me feel not so alone!!
You and all the other wonderful people on this board.
I love all of you too!!! :)
When i feeling really really lost, i come here, and i always walk away feeling better! :)
Love to you!
Jenny