Positive thinking for detox

[KimH]

I am in the weening process from ultram. I have a doctor and family helping me. I wanted to ask the people who are experiencing sobriety to please tell me, do you really feel better? I am getting in the depressed part of this but when I start to feel like I will never be happy or feel good again, I'll feel like @%$# forever, I then see someone post how good they feel being sober. Is it really good? I mean, if you post the horrible parts of being a drug addict, and the now good parts of being sober, it gives me and I'm sure many other people who are detoxing hope to go on knowing it gets better. Something to strive for. I guess only sober people can answer this, but the more replies the better, and people like me can read this when we're down and hold on to the hope we can have. The encouraging sobriety stories (like expillman talking about being free) have kept me from using 3x. Please post more encouragement for us with "withdrawel blues". thanks KIMH

[Expillman]

Hello, Kim.  Let me address several aspects of your message.  First, not everyone who is dependent on a drug is an addict.  In another message I defined the difference between physical dependence and addiction.  If you are taking legally prescribed medication for legitimate pain and are not seeking opioids for psychologically driven reasons to get high, chances are that you are not an addict.

Having said that, I will also state uniquivocally that you can and do become physically dependent on opiods whether or not you are using them legitimately or not.  When you go off of the drugs, you will suffer drug withdrawl and it is not pleasant at all.  

Now, on to positive thinking.  I know that it has helped me a lot.  I live alone and have no one but myself for support regarding my issue of drug dependence.  I simply made up my mind that this was a battle for survival and I was determined not to be defeated.  It helps to make incremental, OBTAINABLE goals and monitor your own progress.  While in withdrawal, it is not helpful to make the goal of I WILL NEVER USE OXYCONTIN AGAIN, but instead make the goal of making it to hour 72, or whatever.

Refuse to be depressed!  Refuse to be defeated!  Think of the power that you will wield when you regain control of your life!
You will not feel badly forever, TIME is a powerful healer, for grief and for drug withdrawal.  Think of time as your ally instead of your enemy.  IT IS ON YOUR SIDE!  The time will pass!  

Think of the power of this concept!  There is no way that the PRESENT STATE will remain as time always marches forward.  Unless you have a very rare and devastating condition known as anterograde amnesia you will always be pointed towards the future and the future will be bright if you are strong.

EXPillman

[terter]

I too have had w/d from Ultram before and now Hydro. I have the same feelings  "when will this end". The depression isn't as bad this time meaning I don't have that feeling of doom this time I think it's because of the anti depressant I'm taking but I still have the blahs and the feeling that alls I have to do is take a pill to feel better but I know if I do that then comes I'll just take another and another. It feels never ending. One thing I have heard over and over that keeps me going is that it gets better over time and look back at last week instead of yesterday because it is a slow process. I am waiting to see a phyciatrist (sp/) but work comp insurance is taking it's sweet time on approving it. This forum says keep busy and exercise but I have a hard time doing that, My daughter says she'll go for a walk with me today, I'm going to give it a try. I know with time the blahs will be lesser and lesser and we need to keep in mind it will go away. My depression was worse with the Ultram but again I'm taking an anti depressant this time. Let patience be with us both. TER

[Expillman]

Physical Dependence and Withdrawal can and will occur and is revealed in patients when the opioid is abruptly halted.  If you have been through withdrawal, you know what I am talking about, anxiety, irritability, chills, abdominal cramps, vomiting, diarrhea, insomnia, ugly stuff.  The duration and severity of  the withdrawal will depend on what opiod has been taken, at what dose and for what period of time.

In Opioids with short half-lifes, such as hydrocodone (Vicodin/Lorotab) hydromorphone (Dilaudid) or immediate release morphine (MSIR) or immediate relase oxycodone (OXIR) the symptoms may appear in 6-12 hours and peak at 24-72 hours.  With the longer half life drugs such as Methadone (Dolophine) M.S. Contin or Oxycontin, the withdrawal symptoms may be delayed and last longer.

Tapering can be done by reducing the dosage 25% every 2 days  until a daily dose equivalent to 30 mg of oral morphine is reached.  This level is also equivalent to approximately 3 Percocet or Vicodin 5 mg. per day, a pretty low dose.  After this level is reached, the drug can be discontinued.

*This is from my notes from The American Pain Society-Principles of Analgesic use in the treatment of acute pain and cancer pain.

[skipper]

expillman:
alow me to welcome you to the forum. i have been posting here since
july 0f 2001. i have been ghosting for awhile and thought it was time for my 2 cents worth....

i am a *drug addict*! specifically a junky. you talk this a bad thing. you have the right to call your self and how ever you choose to lead your life whatever you wish...so why judge someone else?

i went for the beter part of 20 years breaking into drug stores to support my addiction....it was a good life until i got caught. i then "cleaned up my hand" for 17 years. then n old injury came back to haunt me....2 surgerys latter the only way i can funcion most days is with oxycontin. i go to see a very kind doctor at a pain clinic. i have been able to put my life back togather somewahat. but i am still an addict...why? because it is what i choose to call myself.

for what it's worth, a little tollerence of others will have a huge pay off for you. when you get to 300 hours clean you may need it. also i've found that being judgmental of others is really only me judging myself.

you can have your word games about dependence and addiction if they really make you feel beter...i'm not sure that is what this
board is about...i would rather try to be supportive of members new and old and when i tired of this, then i would start to clean
up the mess in my own head (and believe me there is one)

keep posting and keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Expillman]

O.K. let's say that you are an addict OR an individual who has legitimate pain OR both, what can I do?

Let's approach this intelligently and logically.  First and foremost, if you have a medical condition that causes you pain, find a good physican and discuss it with him.  Be completely honest about everything, especially if you have had substance abuse problems.  Work with your doctor and get yourself AS HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE.  If you are too fat, lose weight.  If you are not eating right, start eating right.  If you don't exercise, start walking if you can.  Think of your body as a machine, how can you expect it to take care of you if you don't take care of it?

There are medications that are not addictive, do not build up tolerance and will not put you into withdrawl if you stop.  They have side effects, but they can be managed.  Many of these preparation are available OTC, and very cheap.  What am I talking about?

NSAIDs.  Non steriodal anti-inflammatory drugs.  This drug class includes aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, and a host of others and have analgesic, anti-pyretic and anti-inflammatory properties.  Acetaminiphen (Tylenol) has analgesic properties and will reduce fever, but has no anti-inflammatory properties.  I would avoid it like the plauge becuase it has a ceiling dose of about 3000 mg. per day before it destroys your liver.

If you have chronic pain, a good course of therapy on these drugs must be exhausted before considering other drugs.  I cannot stress enough that even though this group of drugs is HUGE, they remain underutilized to treat chronic pain.  

How can you do this?  You must find the right drug at the right dose.  These must be taken at high enough dose and AROUND THE CLOCK as opposed to PRN to be effective to the maximum.  It is my opinion that IBUPROFEN is one of the most powerful analgesics we have available today.  There is no tolerance built up and no physical dependence that results in withdrawal.  Now, I'm not talking about a dose of 400 mg. per day of Advil.  I'm talking about pushing the dose UP, DOSE TO EFFECT UNTIL SIDE EFFECTS BECOME INTOLERABLE should be the principle.  The main side effects are usually gastroentestinal and can usually be managed unless you have problems with G.I. bleeding and/or peptic ulcer disease.  This is why you must consult with your doctor.

There are alternatives if you have G.I. problems!  There is a wonderful drug called Trilisate (Choline Magnesium Trisalycilate) that does not cause the erosion of the gastric mucosa like most NSAIDS.  It is a salicylate like aspirin so it can cause tinnitus (ringing in the ears) at higher doses, but it is worth a shot if you have GI problems.

This is a lot to digest, and I will type more later.  If you have questions, please ask them.

Disclaimer:  ALWAYS consult your physican.  I am not a M.D. and am not giving medical advice, only information.

[Expillman]

Skipper, I'm sorry if I offended you in this forum.  I think that you have misjudged me as I am probably one of the least judgmental people on earth.

I am not trying to play word games at all, these are just the medical facts as I understand them and I understand them pretty well as I spent 20 years in the field of pain management.

If you or anyone else [including myself] has a psychological dependence of compulsive drug use characterized by a continued craving for an opioid for effects other than pain relief, then they are an addict.  That is not my judgment, just the medical definition.

Be well


EXPillman

[hippy]

i read the post by skipper  to you, and i notices
he was not asking you what he should do.
but you posted your advice to him.
reading your posts it seem you underestamate
the people here at this fourm.
you write as if you are the doctor and evryone here
is in need of your help.
there is no doubt that you have a lot of experence and information. but your approch leaves one  with a bitter taste.

we all come here to support each other ,with all your experence
you would be an asset to this fourm, but it would be
nice to see you get off your high horse,
and share you experene of how each day has been for you and
how you are getting through it.
how you are dealing with depression and lack of energy
that comes after week one.
i don't know if you realize how you sound in your post,
but, know it all,  would suffice,
and no one likes a know it all,
and underestamating  everyone here is foolish.
it would be nice to get to know the real you
and not the arrogant egomaniac you hide behind.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[skipper]

hippee:
as irish rose just said...."wow!"

i can't recall a more to the point post from you or anyone in some- time!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[terter]

A few posts ago we were posting about methadone and I mentioned my mom not being able to sleep well for 4 months, well I finally talked to her she has had mouth surgery so we didn't talk long. Her answer floored me but it was about 15 to 20 years ago but after being on heroine and morphine she went on a methadone program and was on it for 5 years! She started drinking after that until the doc said her liver was bad and now she smokes pot. Shes in her late 60's and has been fighting addiction for around 50 years I need to be more open with her as I'm sure she knows so much and has lived it. TER

[oxic]

Thanks for putting it so well(once again) Michael. I started a post several times, but i found it full of anger each time (not objective), so i stopped.

percs

[Chezz2]

Sorry to hear your Mom has fought these demons for most of her life. You are right, you should use conversations with her to better understand what you are experiencing and going through.

As to your questions regarding amitryptaline(elavil) you should not have any withdrawals when stopping it. I have been taking it for years and haven't had trouble stopping it at will. Although since I take it at bedtime I did notice sometimes it was harder to fall asleep, so I took benadryl or sominex instead and had no problemss.

Hope this helps, and good luck on your journey,
Chezz

[Expillman]

Else who I may have offended in this forum.  It was not my intent to offend anyone's sensibilities, degrade anyone's comfort level or invade anyone's space.  

I have been personally attacked and characterized as having low self esteem, being a know-it-all and an egomaniac, among other things.  So be it, I cannot attempt to change anyone's perception of me, I only know in my own mind my intent and do not apologize for my enthusiasm, it is just part of my nature.  I was so happy to be through the physical withdrawal, I just wanted to use my knowledge to help someone and obviously it came out the wrong way.

I would like to thank everyone for this forum, it helped me a lot.

Not wanted to cause dissention or disruption, I will regretfully withdraw my thoughts, ideas and experience.

One word on Methadone, I do stand by my statement.  I think that it is a lousy and dangerous drug, BUT I will qualify that with my perspective from treatment of mainly cancer pain and not from the standpoint of Methadone maintenance for treating addiction.  Addiction treatment was not my bailiwick, managing cancer pain was.  Of course Methadone is vital to the lives of many who depend on it to control their addiction.  I should have qualified my answer, but I am not 100%, I am still going through withdrawal and am human, remember?

I wish you all peace, happiness and success.

Expillman

[Chezz2]

I have been educated through this forum from the plethora of knowledge of its participants.

One thing I have learned is that MMT is VITAL to chronic pain patients with no other means or places to turn.

Your opinion that it is not, is respected as well. Although I know of a few people here that would not be here if it weren't for MMT for chronic pain. I stand behind them 100% for the decision and route they have had to take to get their pain under control.

Regards,
Chezz

[mrmichael67]

Ms contin and Oxycontin have a long action, but the half life of oxycodone and morphine is not different as compared to percocet or msir.  What is different is how the drug is released into the body.  Oxycodone has the same half life whether it is percocet or oxycontin.  With oxycontin, it is dissolved and released into the system at a very slow rate.  Once it is in the body's circulation, the half life is exactly the same.  You could do the same comparison with ms contin and msir.  As far as the pure opioid agonists go, methadone is in a class by itself in terms of half life.  Someone in your position should know that.  I refer to, of course, the organization you have connected yourself to.

[mrmichael67]

I wish your mom all the best.  Be close to her.  She is the voice of experience.  And, she's your mom.  My mom and I are very close.  We help each other out quite a bit.  We are both chronic pain patients.  She has a back issue as I do, but she won't go under the knife after what I went through.  She gets by on darvocet and at the absolute minimum.  I envy her.  I really do.  She has never over done it and has been taking them for a few years now.

[SarpyJesse]

ExPillman--

Please contact me (E-mail) at this address:

***@****

I have some information that you may find interesting.....

Jess

[Expillman]

There are two half lives, half lives of absorption and half life of elimination.  The aborption, once released, is of course the same for oxycodone or morphine respectively, morphine is morphine.  The differing metabolites of morphine can account for differing rates of elimination.  These are also thought to be responsible for the nausea associated by morphine, i.e. more slowly eliminate metabolites that may accumulate and cause nausea.

The Contin pills are different in that they are controlled release as opposed to sustained release.  The MS Contin is a wax matrix and the Oxycontin is a acrylic polymer if I remember correctly.

You must remember that I worked this field 10 years ago and I am relying on memory for much of this material.

Now, THIS is my last message here at the Methadone Anti-Defamation Forum.

[Chezz2]

RELAX,
All that is being conveyed is that you can not come into a forum like this, after 100 hours after a rather large consumption of opiates. Stating you have spent the last 20 years in the pain management field and EXPECT respect regarding your views or what you have been taught.
EVERYONE has something to contribute, including yourself.

How you convey that information is the key...

Chezz

No harm, no foul...

[mrmichael67]

Actually, the half life you were referring to had nothing to do with absorption seeing as methadone is absorbed rather quickly compared to ms contin or oxycontin (whatever makes them dissolve slowly matrix wise or whatever) and you did lump them all into the same half life group.  So sorry, but I knew exactly what you were talking about and it was information that was not accurate.

[skipper]

expillman:
perhaps everyone needs to sit back, take a nice long deep breath, and try to look at all of  this tu each others eyes, while standing in each others shoes...

i really don't believe anyone on this forum resents your knowledge. nor do i believe that your intentions were purposefully ego-centric.  it's just that is what at least i belive  has happened. addiction (or in your case chemical dependence is the "I" infection disease. chemical dependents and/or drug addicts tend to see the world as revoloving around them specifically.

the fist time i cleaned up, i discovered i enjoyed working on everyone elses program of recovery. working my own personal recovery was basicly not too much fun...to say the least!

can i be honest? the most difficult part of recovery from addiction and/or cemical dependency (for me) was learning how to listen...or more to the point, picking the wax out of my ears and holding it under my tounge. it's not that what you have to say isn't important...it's just my oppinion that what others (in recovery) have to say to you at this point is probably far more important. if my oppinions or remarks have offended you that's great! see all that means is you listenend just enough to "open up your head enough to be offended. so you did listen up a little bit, didn't you?

i believe Thomas pointed out to you that a sense of humor will be a life saver for you in the near (and far) future. no truer words have been spoken! see laughing at youself is the first step to loving yourself!

at any rate....i've gone on for far too long!
keep an angel on your shoulder...and keep posting
kip

[MethMan]

Kim,
I can tell you that once you get your first day clean, it gets better from there.  Depending upon how much you took and for how long, it may take weeks if not months to feel "normal" (whatever that means).
I was on methadone for over 16 years.  Currently, I've somehow massed 7 months without anything.  It has been my experience that the first 2 months were pretty miserable.  I knew to expect that, afterall, there's no free ride when dealing with opiates.
What I have underestimated is the length of time it took to feel "good" again.  After about 4 months, I began to wonder why the hell was I still feeling run down.  It was kind of a downer at that point, really.  But, I kept to the plan.  Not because I am some strong willed guy, but because I damn sure didn't wanna go back and do the first week of withdrawals again. :)  Man... it doesn't take many of those to teach me something.
The good part is that I am feeling pretty damn good now.  I've reclaimed the life I lost and for the first time in over two decades, I'm looking forward to all the tomorrows I can get.
The main thing I can tell you, is that you need to be focused on "YOU".  Not the problems around you, nor the people that may **** and moan because you're not performing to their specifications.  Another thing:  Try to "rethink your thinking process".  This may not mean much to you right now, but sometimes it's aweful easy to just say "Why Not" and give in rather than trying to understand why you're thinking that way in the first place.  Like I said, the above may not mean much now but try to remember to at least look at the thought process along the way.
I wish you the best. Luck hasn't a damn thing to do with it.
Peace,
Methman

[Thomas03]

I'm reposting this from a closed thread because I want you to see it ...

Hey, Ex, relax. They're just testing you. And you know you're really making an impact when you **** someone off -- always my words to live by ...

Kip and Hippee are both my good friends. They care passionately for the addict who still suffers. You couldn't find two finer gentlemen. If they stick you, stick em back. Hey, I'm Irish/German so you know I'm always game for a good dustup!

Stick with us. You have a lot to offer. You’re obviously knowledgeable and experienced, you have a disciplined mind and your prose is irritatingly precise. In any event, you can do a lot of good here.

Besides, don’t you want Kip to tell us how he knocked over all those juicy pharmacies? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thomas

[Thomas03]

Hey, Kip, your post made me think ... there is "The World" and there is "my world." Of those worlds, the "my worlds" absolutely revolve around us. And that which we incorporate into our worlds appears from our individual perspectives to do the same.

That probably means ****-all, but I hope this post finds you doing well. I'm going to pop in a tape of Red Dragon and sink to my natural level. Hope it's good. I'm a Michael Mann fan and loved Man Hunter, so it better be!

Thomas

[Sturgil]

You need to be the one who runs this board. Again you are a gentleman!!!!


Sturgil Flockin

[Expillman]

So, what you are saying is that I should not let a couple of methadone-worshiping, pharmacy robbing, geriatricaphobic dopeheads, who couldn't find a spellchecker if one was crammed up their ass; and who butcher fine English like a bunch of starving Hillbillies setting on a full roasted hog at B-B-Q, run me off.

Is that what you are saying?

[Sturgil]

Experience

Strength

and Hope.



Everyone's input is needed on this board. Staying focused is important for me to be successful in my recovery program. The board and it's members are a huge part of my early recovery. In early recovery some post pissed me off, but now looking back, it was just hitting too close to home.

Every post here does help someone in need. Even if it ticks me off somebody is helped.

God's Speed.

Sturgil Flockin

[Thomas03]

Ha! That was goooood. Starving hillbillies ... A bully post indeed!

To answer your question: By all means carry on, my friend.

Thomas

[Thomas03]

Thanks, sturgil.

Strength and Honor.

Thomas

[cosmicstargoat]

Bully?  Blast Pheemer!  B-B-Q is always pork, you Hillbilly!
Read my words and be saved.  My wholly B-B-Q

Salvations 1:1

Verily,verily I say unto thee, open flame shall not touch thy cooking flesh or thine days will be numbered before you are cast into the lake of ire.

Goatesians 1:2-4
The only way to the BBQ is the meat. It is blasphemous and very naughty in my wholly site for thou to roast, even over the slow fire, beef, chicken, venison, goat, lamb , possum, armadillo,rattlesnake or any other creature that roams the earth, the weasel, the mouse, the great lizard according to its kind, the gecko, the land crocodile, the lizard, the sand lizard, and the chameleon.... and call this meat B-BQ. They shall remain an abomination to you; Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch; they are unclean to you. The sacred pig is the only animal acceptable in my site for B-B-Q.

Baah 1:5
It is unwholly and unwise and another abomination to use a cooking vessel that is a gas grill to cook the sacred BBQ. Just as the BBQ must be pork, so must the fire be charcoal with hickory chips, the aroma is pleasing to my nostrils.

Hornations 1:9
It is unholy to annoint the sacred pig with thy sauce while the wholly BBQ is cooking.To put sauce on the wholly flesh is impure and unclean. I will turn my eyes away thee and cease to bless those who transpire against me and do not keep my commandments. Thou shall not be impatient while thy cookest the wholly BBQ. Bring not to my table meat with the fat still in it. Cook the meat slowly and turn it often and you will be blessed.

Gnaw 1:20-23
When serving the blessed and wholly BBQ thy condiments shall not include green garden vegetable, or green peas, or squash, or rutabegas, or turnips, or kale, or brussel sprouts, or field peas, or celery, or brocolli, or cauliflower, nay I say unto you. BBQ beans are right on, as is mustard slaw and bread.

Bud 1:1
Thy must drink beer with thy BBQ or you will be smitten and turned into a pillar of salt.

Peace, my son.

[MethMan]

So... let me see....
Your BBQ post was an exceptional piece of work, albeit sacrilegious to the Baptists.  We eat at every gathering.  And none of it is pork.  Our scripture clearly reveals in Beeficus 3:34 that "No man nor woman shall consume the swine.  For swine was placed on this earth for no other but the Nation of Islam."
It can't get any clear than that, my friend.
Pork on a barbecue?  Next thing you'll tell us is Chicken tastes good with charcoal briquette cooking.  My GOD!  Is there no mercy to this?
Can we both come to some understanding here?  How do you feel about flame broiled posssum?

Peace,
Methman

[Thomas03]

Man, you're serious about your BBQ! If you're cookin, I'm there!

Ya know, BBQ is essentially our most primal dietary custom. I mean, aren't the ape-men in 2001 BBQing when that monolith shows up and buggers everything?

Thomas

[cosmicstargoat]

Another Blast Pheemer!  

Anyway, you don't have to worry about Pillman criticizing your spelling anymore.  I had the old coot put away in a Nearby Nursing Home for Know it Alls.  He won't be back for a while.

How do I feel about Possum?  About the same way I feel about scabies, prickly heat, leaky colostomy bags, Injun underwear and Circus Peanuts, that's how I feel.

I'd rather go back into withdrawal than to characterize ANYTHING but the sacred pork as BBQ.  There is no such thing as BBQ beef, that is just a hallucination of those pathetic folks from TEXX-ASS who wouldn't know the difference between REAL BBQ and sheep tripe.  

BBQ Beef, indeed!

As for the Baptists, especially Deacon Fred over at Landover, all I can say is that they are worshiping the WRONG GOD.  

The One and Only True God is The Cosmic Star Goat.  Braise hir mane!  The Cosmic Star Goat gave hir only forgotten son, Billy to die on the wholly BBQ Pit for your sins.  Believe in Billy and be saved -or- be condemned to Stew in The Wholly Bile forever and forever.

Amen

[modoggirl]

i got on here lllate this evening hoping to find some positive thinking....what the HELL is this bbq ****? Its enough to make me use...thanks for the laugh guys and goodnight!

[MethMan]

Now SEE what your goat god did? It just scared somebody off.
Well, I happen to be from Texas.  And you're right.  The ranchers here would have nothing to do with goats.  Matter of fact, it's against the law to even back up to a fence to one much less barbecue it.
Now... on to this "anti-possum" rhetoric you've spoken about.  In about 15 minutes, PETA is gonna be knockin' at your door.  You're gonna have to come up with a story on why you're puttin' da possum down.  Greenpeace would have been there, but they're on the sand towing out a beached whale.  I suppose (given the chance and say 10 tons of charcoal) you'd grill that up too, wouldn't you?
Goat people.  They're all baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

[AlexisInTx]

I've got this strange craving for BBQ'd possum right now.  That'd be mighty good - up yonder yesterday we un's did have a big ole BBQ and the whole family came.  Cousin Lou, cousin Fred (her hubby) and a whole bunch o' yung in's.

Anyhow, I'm an addict (not just one of those who are physiologically (or would that be just chemically?) dependant, but a straight-out addict) and I'm doing better.  Just wanted to post a message to Thomas and I think terter (?) -- sorry if I got the nick wrong, but the post down below that I wrote last week I did receive a response from Thomas and really appreciated the wisdom and advice as usual, you cool people you.  

I can see the forest through the trees (even with all of that damn barbeque smoke) now.  I'm feeling like I'm coming back to the land of the living, now onto a respectable (how ever respectable that can be) benzo taper (no opiates at this juncture) which will give me my life back, free of chemical dependancy (positive thinking).  But I'll always be dealing with addiction, that's the nature of the beast with me.  And I'm not going to feel as if I'm less of a person, because I beat myself up too much for feeling that way for way too long, which can lead down the wide path of least resistance -- taking more PK's.

I'm glad to read how well everyone is doing.  I do care a bunch about the lot of ya.  Honestly, I feel like this is the only place I can come to and express my honest feelings, and it's a great release/relief to be able to do so with others that do understand.  We'll be going to the beach soon, and I can't wait to swim with my puppy in the ocean.  Also, I've been working out a lot lately, so I'm planning on early morning jogs and looking at the beautiful sunrise in the morning that I always miss because I used to be in bed until late morning/early afternoon.

Sending out big waves to all...!

[theGolden1]

Sounds like everyone's lost it ..... and that goes for the Xman too ... he is a bit upity, but I was waiting to hear his take on ultram .... and never happened. Oh well .... had some great laughs ... G

[mrmichael67]

First off to sturgill:Thomas never ran this board.  I don't know where that idea comes from.  To expillhead:  You shouldn't lump all together.  I have never robbed a pharmacy.  I am not geriatric.  ONE of the people who got on you is currently on methadone...only one. And, after the way you came in here like gangbusters, you pretty much had it coming.  After seeing the information on the "long half-life" drugs you mentioned, I couldn't help myself.  Before you go telling people about addiction and dependence, you might want to find out how they take their meds.  If they are taking 30 or 40 a day, then I would say that is irrelevant.  Oh yeah, I saw a few typos in your posts as well.  Spellcheck?  As far as who "runs" this board?  Besides the obvious two (Cindy and Phil), I thought everyone "ran" this board.  As far as this little blowout we had:  No one likes to be condescended to.  I just had to comment one more time in response to someone actually going to the level of calling people childish names.  Hey, let's just add insult to injury.  Why don't we?  Why don't we just move on?  This all isn't accomplishing anything.

[hippy]

i have been at this fourm,
for a year and a half ,
i have been clean 13 months.
this is the 1st time i have written
something to someone that could  be
considered negitive. i am an addict
i have had to deal with low self esteem.
having a great big ego is nothing new to addicts
including myself
i do beleive all things happen for a reason.
so what ever made me post what i did,  im sure it was meant to be.

[cosmicstargoat]

Well, you've been LUMPED.  Deal with it.  

What's all this hooey about METHADONE being safe?  Shoooot, boy, The New York City Times reported in February that Methadone is killing people right and left, worse than bad BBQ.  Don't you know that Methadone is just another synthetic opioid that JUNKIES are trying to sanitize and make respectable, just to keeep using?

Safe?  Oh, safe as used as directed.  Well, so is Oxy.  So is Dilaudid.  So be morphine.  It's safe until some junkhead grinds up a whole bunch of those pretty 200s and over-injects and dies.  

Methadone?  You're squabbling with Pillman {who has already made one excape attempt from the nursing home) about half-lives and you're still taking Methadone?

Devil and the Deep Blue, my son.  Believe in Goat and his BBQ and you will have the strength to unhook thyself from your Devil Drug Methadone.

Say Amen.  You know in your heart, Goat is right.

[cosmicstargoat]

Golden.

Pillman is resting comfortable in his new home.  Ultram is just another Devil in de skys.  Get a package insert and read the paragraph under PHYSICAL DEPENDENCE AND ABUSE.  It reads:

SHOULD NOT BE USED IN OPIOID DEPENDENT PATIENTS

It will cause you to go into terrible withdrawers when you stop if you start.  Worse that overindulging in Texas BBQ.  Don't take it.  

Believe in Goat and his son Billy and you will be saved from drugs masquerading as alternatives to the drugs you crave.

Amen and good luck

[cosmicstargoat]

Hippeee, Purpel Hays, Chambers Brothers, InaGaddaDaVida, Kenny Rodgers singing what condition my condition is in,  GIVE ME AN
F!, Country Joe & his Fish.

You think Pillman has low SELF STEAM?  Shoot, boy, He got more Self STEAM than sweet darling Janis Joplin chugging a bottle of Suthern' Comfort!

Don't worry tho.  He's as angry as a junkie wet hen without its killer methadone, but the Old Coot has been locked up for a while.

You stay clean now, ya hear?

Amen and bless you, my son.

[skipper]

Hey:
whats a spell checker? is it something ya'll use in propper company? as fo me bein a hillbilly can't...got no hills here...just flat land.... i guess i do qualify for white trash...is that ok?

as for those methadone worshiping whatevers....spend time in a clinic...try being compassionate

and where would you ever find space for that there spell checker up your ass...your head takes up all the available space.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[mrmichael67]

Judging from your post, you MUST be one of the more intelligent people on this planet.  That goes for educated, as well.  Just like the New York Times.  If someone abuses opioids, they might die.  That is a given.  What was your point?  I wasn't sure to whom this post should be addressed.  Is it cosmicstargoat, or expillman?  Most likely, potato-potahto.

[rodewc]

nice to meet a grammar freak.. you will be elated to know that yr words *shld* read "a spellchecker crammed up *his ass*", or "a spellchecker crammed up *their asses*"

rwc~

[rodewc]

It was either Day 5 or Day 6 'clean.' I tingled all over, was lucid and extremely happy. That day was better than any artificial high. I have had this feeling of elation (straight) a few times since, but lately when I have lain around having a pity party, I remember Day 5 (and subsequent natural highs)
rwc~

[cosmicstargoat]

Thank you.  Congratulations on your insight, grasshopper.    Since you have trouble comprehending the drug situation, I'll use short words and sentences so that you will understand.

1985.  Methadone good.  Use much for cancer pain.  Dose q12h.  Here comes Purdue Frederick and their sales reps with[LONG HALF LIFE] MS Contin. No Accumulation!  No ceiling dose.  Wax matrix, so junkies can't abuse (HAH!)  Now Methadone bad and junkies pout.  Here comes the Duragesic Patch. Here comes Kadian.  Patch even longer duration, low abuse potential.  Junkies smoke patch.  HillBillies chew patch. Dilaudid remains the champagne of all narcotics.  MS Contin continues to control cancer pain market.  Purdue ponders nausea issue.

Fast forward to 1995.  Purdue Frederick becomes Purdue Pharma and intros Oxycontin.  Cannibalizes MS Contin AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE PAIN MARKET.  Sales Reps push less nausea, NEW AND IMPROVED dual action acrylic polymer Contin delivery system THAT HAS LESS ABUSE POTENTIAL!  Addicts who try to inject will get pulmonary granulomas and DIE!  Doctors prescribe by the truckloads and sales approach SIX TIMES 1995 projected sales of over ONE BILLION DOLLARS.

Y2K AND BEYOND brings reality that addicts are crushing, snorting, chewing and injecting Oxycontin now heralded by hysterical news media as HillBilly Heroin and a menace to society.  Bad Purdue.  Bad Doctors.  Throw out baby with bath water.  

2003 doctors are terrified of Oxycontin and go back to prescribing Methadone for chronic pain.  Deaths from Methadone skyrocket.

Spin-Spin-Spin

Methadone is STILL a terrible drug to treat chronic pain.  Drug addicts are the problem, their behaviour and INABILITY TO GET THEMSELVES CLEAN BY RELYING ON A CRUTCH LIKE METHADONE hurts terribly LEGITIMATE patients who have LEGITIMATE PAIN.

Conclusion:  All drug addicts should be imprisioned/executed and Methadone should be removed from the market.

Now, is that clear enough for you, or do I need to have Barney exercise his uvula in your general direction?

Amen.

[RachelHunter]

i think that everyone's lack of respect for new members is horrifying. just because someone comes in with a different point of view regarding drugs (and it's morally right) is no reason to attack them and try to run them off the forum. i can tell that our new poster is a devout christian or muslim with strongly-held beliefs and some people can't handle it when judgement from up high comes to strike them down.

RH

[cosmicstargoat]

Thank you, Rachel.  I am a Goatee, a devotee of The Church of The Cosmic Star Goat, the one and only TRUE GOD.  Braise hir mane!

[twiceain'tnice]

Yes, I tried to get some advice a couple of days ago and all I've been reading is controversy and I am thinking about bowing out of this forum.  When I went ct three weeks ago I got some help, but anything after I never even got a reply on any questions.  It seems there are a few here who have a personal thing going on that omits others need for help and makes one feel "less impotant".  Maybe they should e-mail each other?  Anyway, I have been clean for 3 weeks and have started having cravings.  I almost forgot wd and wanted to use but did not. I came here, but got No reply to questions of comments.  Hope someone else can get through.

[Rick99]

Hey guys I was reading this post and its good to see, somethings never change... I have now been sober over 6 months and I have learned that no matter how much time passes, I will NEVER FORGET what I went through with drug abuse.  I spent a lot of time here before and it makes me feel good to see that this forum hasn't changed a bit.  Mr. Expillman found that out the hard way. haha, if you are reading this do not take offense, this forum has always had an aggressive personality, its a different animal here, you have to except that you are no better then anyone else...

[QMama]

My sister was clean from pain killers for over 5 years until she had to have an operation and has been having a very difficult time getting off of them.  I am going to spend a week with her to help her detox.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do this?

Thanks!

[newlyf]

Is this still up and running for people to post on?  Just curious. It looks as though most of the dates are older.  New here and just wondering.  Thanks

[Juhncadula]

Take responsibility for my own actions.  Accountability.  Its not their faults, its mine that fucks up my life.  I get high.... all the time.  I can't stop.  I go through life, go through the motions, but can't get over myself.  Constanty worried that everyone knows what I don't, where they are going, been. The mountains still llook the same, the water, ocean.  I just enjoy the illusion of a pain free world.  My illusions are not apparent to others.  So if anyone knows where I'm coming from, you should call the doctor.  Believe it.  -Dan