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Possible drug interactions for Methadone
I was severely injured at work over 2 years ago.  I have been taking Paxil for depression and was also recently switched from morphine to Methadone for pain treatment.  I read on the Internet that Paxil (or any SSRI drug) can cause a spike in blood pressure and possibly a stroke when mixed with Methadone.  My doctor is now recommending Effexor in place of Paxil.  Isn't Effexor also an SSRI? and to your knowledge, does it pose significant risk(s) when taken with Methadone?  If so, is there an anti-depressant that can be safely used with Methadone?
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I don't know what the withdrawal protocl is for fioricet (butalbutal), but I'm learning from hard experience that you want to taper off the benzo as slowly as possible. And I do mean s-l-o-w-l-y. I'm taking the next three months, with the help of, hopefully soon, a psychologist to help me deal with anxiety while I reduce my Xanax. After 3 seizures, I don't think I can stand another.

How to safely withdraw from Fioricet? The only safe way I as a layman can think of is tapering.

Wouldn't hurt to consult an addiction doc before embarking -- that is, if you can find one that knows his business and gives a damn. Sometimes you get one side, other times you get the other.


Good luck,

Thomas
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"on my signal, unleash Hell." remember that line? What a great flick, Gladiator is! I don't blame you for taking your handle from it.

Maximus, after reading your second post, I realized for the first time just what you're facing. I don't know how else to say this, but what you're facing is truly appalling. I don't know how you couldn't be depressed about it. In fact, depressed must be a rather tame word for what you must be feeling. I was truly moved by your situation and feel the greatest compassion for you and your family. As you already know, these situations are never confined to affecting just the patient; they change the lives of the whole family. If "doc dan" failed to give you an effective answer, let me know and we will find someone who can help. I'm not a medical professional but, if there's anything I can do for you - if you just want to talk about good movies, whatever it is, I'm here to help in any way I can.

May god's good graces bless you and your family


Thomas
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Hi Everyone,
   I was catching up on the last few days. I see that once again things have been said.But just like a few weeks ago when I tried to quit,everyone who cares,cared ! Way to go people. I won't try to call each one by name.You know who you are.People don't want to leave just so someone will beg them to stay.Life happens.When I get upset at the man I love and married 28 years ago,I get hurt and walk away. But love brings us back together.I don't have 28 years with you guys but what time I've been here I have been touched at the depths of my heart and I'm glad you cared enough to ask me not to leave when I was upset.Thank You.
  Maximus,I too have severe chronic pain.Mine is from disease and back surgeries and many other surgeries. I too get frustrated at times.The people here are great listeners.They've been a blessing to me.I will pray for you as I do for these friends I've met here. I hope you get some relief to your suffering.
  Please continue to pray for me friends. my pain is better today but I'm fighting a kidney infection on top of everything else.
  I'm glad you stayed Thomas. God Bless you.
      Kerrie
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I'm glad I did too, if for no other reason than to continue to know classy people like you. I do hope your pain gets better or your doctor finds a better solution for you. I was just talking to a forum regular off-line about oxy and the bad rep it's getting. I was suggesting to her that she considr MSContin with sub-linqual morphine for breakthrough pain. While they certainly could ban or restrict oxy, they're not going to ban morphine. I suggested she not wait until some pharmacist is telling her she has to secial order oxycontin or that her insurance won't cover it anymore or that her doctor has been put on probation for writing too many triplicates for oxy. I was telling her that my relatvely brief experience with MSContin left me with a very favorable impression. Add to that 10 mg. sub-lingual morphine (possibly harder to get unless you're terminal) for breakthrough pain, and I think she would be taken care of with some meds that don't have the notoriety that oxy is acquiring. Just a thought. But I seem to hear more and more about banning oxy. If that were to happen there would be a lot of desperate, withdrawing and "in pain" patients wondering what terrible thing they had done to deserve such treatment. I suggested she be proactive nd she if her doctor could at least give her a trial run on the MSContin, even if she could get the sub-linqual morphine (it'spure morphine, no binder, so it could be easily dsolved inwater andinjected as is, or even snorted. That might make it hard to get. But perhaps something else could be used for breakthrough, like 10 mg. Norco or even a little oxy,who knows; One thing I do know: As a chronic pain patient, you haveto beproactive and look out for yourself. No one is hoverng over your shoulder makijng sure you're taken care of. That much I've learned in thirty years of narcotics addiction.
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Well, things certainly have been interesting in the week or so I've been away, haven't they?  Of course, none of it really surprises me anymore. . .as in "real life", a cybercommunity such as this will see the extremes of the best and worst in everyone.  Nice to see that civility appears to have won out again (for now), despite all the negativity.

Been away for a few reasons. . .mainly, just do not have the stamina to read (let alone post) this board after coming home from work the way I have been.  I contacted my HMO several weeks ago, telling them of my symptoms of depression, and was given a June 18 appointment with a psychiatrist.  About par for the course, really, considering I did not seem (and do not feel) like an "emergency" case to them.

Going to work (where I do total care of Alzheimer's/elderly/demented or physically compromised people) eight hours a day is, although spiritually satisfying, also is physically and spiritually debilitating and draining at the same time.  My back, legs, feet, and soul hurt so bad at the end of most days that all I want to do is go to bed after spending a few hours with my family whilst trying not to bite their heads off for no good reason.

I thank everyone again for their good thoughts and prayers for me.  I believe in the power of these things even times, like now, when I cannot particularly feel them.

I have only one thing to add, to any who may be detoxing/withdrawing "at home" from Vicodin or any other narcotic:  please, *please* do not turn to any form of benzodiazepines to "help" you through your withdrawal, unless under the care of an expert physician who fully understands the nature of addiction (and the only example of this I can think of would be an addictionologist, who generally only work in "closed" or inpatient facilities).  Taking benzos to ease your withdrawal amounts only to substituting one drug for another.  If you do this, you may as well just substitute another narcotic or remain on the **** that you were withdrawing from for all the good it will do you. As true addicts, we realize that they have ZERO self-control over ANY mind or mood-altering substance.  We may feel we do at first, but it is only our disease at work, and in the end we are fooling only ourselves.

Lastly, not to sound too "old-school" or anything, but the agony -- physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional -- of withdrawal serves its own purpose in helping us stay clean after we get through it.  If we defer or blunt this discomfort with the aid of other drugs, it is that much easier for us to, at some later point, say, "Hey, that wasn't so bad after all," and we are that much closer to using again -- that is, if we are not already so hooked on benzos that the fear of going "back" to drugs does not even occur to us.

Peace,
Pelle
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Thomas, I wanted to explain why the movie Gladiator had so much meaning for me.  I hope I will not offend anyone by taking up space on this forum by telling a little more about myself as I actually am not offering suggestions or help.
     In 1988 I was involved in a car accident with a drunk driver.  The drunk driver only sustained cuts and bruises but I was thrown from my vehicle and it rolled over on me.  It took several hours for emergency folks to get me out.  I was life flighted to a hospital in Houston, Tx.  During the helicopter ride, I died and was resuscitated 3 times.  I suffered a broken back in 2 different places(it was eventually fused with a bone graph from my hip and I was given hardware), a severe concussion, both my collarbones where broken, every rib was broken, both lungs collapsed, I had a partial spleenectomy and my jaws had to be reconstructed.  I was in a coma for 2 weeks.  My family was told that if I lived I would never  walk again, never have children and I would probably only function on a 2nd or 3rd grade level.  Needless to say their predictions for me were wrong.  I walked out of the hospital several months later (albeit with a walker) and underwent a year of rehab and physical therapy to learn how to talk and walk again but I have been blessed in living a very functional life since that time.  After a year and a half, my fusion took so beautifully that I was able to have my hardware removed.  I have always had back pain but have been able to endure.
      I have two beautiful children and a wonderful wife now of 11 years.  As I mentioned, my back was re-injured at work 2 years ago.  I was working on the ground when a forklift load weighing between 600-800 pounds shifted and I tried to stop it from falling.  It was a stupid thing to do but at the time instinct just kicked in and I did it.  My back took the brunt of the fall.  I re-injured it above and below my old fusion.  After several months of tests and treatments, I was told that I would never be able to work in manual labor.  This was a devastating blow.  I had only a previous semester of college and had always supported my family by doing carpentry and maintenance.  Though depressed, I decided to enroll in college for drafting.  I made a perfect 4.0 my first semester and was inducted into a national honor society.  Various treatments for pain continued.  Finally, as sort of a last-ditch effort for pain control I was surgically implanted with an intrathecal morphine pump.  I was high a great deal of the time from the morphine and every time the pump was turned up I was sick for several days.  I had lots of side effects and very little pain management.  I had to drop out of college during my second semester.  They mixed an anesthetic with the morphine but this did not help.  Finally, they changed the medicine in my pump out to Dilautid.  When given enough Dilautid to make my pain tolerable, I could not function.  Knowing that morphine withdrawal is not life threatening (you just wish you could die) I asked my doctors to shut the pump down.  They told me it might be rough but I was determined that I could not live in a fog and with so many side effects.  It was horrible.  I had gone through morphine withdrawal upon coming out of the hospital in '88 but somehow this was a hundred times worse.  I did not realize how addicted I had been to the morphine.  I vomited, poured sweat and had to wrap myself up in a blanket so that I wouldn't hit anyone (I wanted to hurt someone or something badly) for days.  Finally, I went to the hospital and was given stuff to take at home to help.  It was still pure hell for 2 weeks.  My blood pressure went way up and way down and I finally had to take medication for that.  I was tired, dazed and felt really the lowest that I had in my whole life. I really did not want to go on. It was during this hellish 2 weeks that my wife rented Gladiator for me.  I know this sounds silly and I know that it is just a movie, but I was in a "floaty" state of mind and suddenly I felt like I was in the middle of all the fighting.  I felt like a Gladiator who had been fighting so hard for so long.  Maximus endured and overcame--even with a hole in his side at the end.  I can't explain it but suddenly I felt like I could do it and I did not feel sorry for myself anymore.  This intense feeling washed over me.  My wife said I stood up and yelled, "I am Maximus"  Now this is the big joke in our house.  She has now nicknamed me Maximus.  Man, it was rough.
     Now, I am waiting for surgery.  They saved it as a last resort because it is a pretty rough and dangerous surgery.  We still do not have the date.
     It has been so frustrating at times for me and my family.  I know the doctors work hard and try hard but sometimes they leave so much out and are so unaware of everything going on.  I feel at times like a science project or experiment.  I have found that is why it is so important to try to stay informed and on top of things myself.  That is also why I was worried when my wife and I read on one web-site that Methadone and SSRI's can be a deadly combination.  One doctor had prescribed my Paxil (which has been a lifesaver) and a different one had prescribed the Methadone and I could not get either to call me back for several days.  The doctor on this site has now posted a response and my own doctor, although advising me that there are risks does not seem too worried.
     As I may have already mentioned I am now on Methadone (a relatively small dose that I do not intend on abusing) which is the first thing that has helped at all with pain.  Before the Methadone and after the pump was shut down I was eating Extra Strength Vicadin like candy (20-25 per day).  Thomas I do not know how you were even alive on 75 a day.  
      I wanted you to know that we found your information about B6 and L-Tyrosine extremely interesting and printed a copy in case the need ever arises again for its use.  My wife was especially interested as she is studying for a degree in naturopathic medicine, and of course always looks for the least toxic and least invasive ways of approaching health care.
      Thank you for your care and concern for me and my family.  My wife and I have been moved to tears by the positive and encouraging comments from you and others.  It is amazing to us that people you have never met will lift you up over the miles.  We will be lifting all of you up with our prayers and good wishes on this end.  This journey has so many obstacles and we must try to help each other over them.  Also, one of my favorite thoughts is the one about "People are the glove that God's hand touches us with" or something like that.  We have to try and be that glove.
     I am so sorry again for letting my frustrations get the best of me and lashing out but thankful to run across all you folks here.
     God's peace and blessings in each of your journeys.

Maximus

    


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Hello, sorry to interrupt a thread, but I don't really have a question for the doctor. I just wanted to introduce myself and tell you why I'm posting. After reading this forum for a while, I got the nerve to register & post because I have been truly overwhelmed by what nice, caring, truly decent people so many of you seem to be. I need that in my life right now.
My personal demon is Fioricet. I also take Valium regularly for a severe anxiety disorder. I know I'm dependent on it, but I don't abuse it like the Fioricet. I also rarely drink and do no other drugs (weed maybe three times a year).
I know the dangers of too much acetaminophen and do my best to steer clear of those. I also know not to stop abruptly, etc. And I don't take the Fioricet on a regular basis (but I abuse it when I do take it). I guess what brought me to this forum is feeling like I must be a terrible person for taking this medicine (originally prescribed for severe tension headaches, which I still have). I also hope I may at some point be able to offer help in return. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Milo
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Wow,  I am soooooo  sorry you have had to endure such pain,  My God, As a Staff nurse in a very large hospital I have seen people in your shape and worse, and how the staff became so overly excited when at least one of our patients lived through such trauma yet alone walked out the hospital...You are truly a miracle and God surely felt he still needed you on earth.  I have learned over the past few months to not question God,  I came here in search of answers one night shortly after my mom passed away on Christmas morning...I truly at that point in my life thought I could not go on,  i had 2 little kids and a wonderful husband but yet, I was lost and empty with out my mom.  I was very close to her and had taken care of her for a very long time..she was only 61...not to lay anmore of my pain out in front of you, my mom's greatest fear was this...she had livedthrough my addiction, rcovery. relapse period with me and suffered every ounc of my pian right along with me and her only fear of dying was that I would not be ok...she was right,  I was not Ok,  I was hanging by a thread..my heart was shattered, my life had once again turned dark,,,I knew I had to keep on going for my babies and my husband,,I found this forum and I call it my divine intervention,  these people here,  When i first got here, Thomas, JB, Brighty, Annie aka Angelica and a guy named Spook they all As I say  "loved me back to life"  I didn't care what time of day or night it was and there were many all nighters they were here for me, along the way i have picked up Kerrie, wiz, lea, whitedove (and I'm sorry if I left anyone out)that Have all helped me to go on...you have come to the right place...we all did not get off to a great start but in a day or so no one will even remember, we all have something in common, along with addiction we also have pain....be it physical or emotional...I take the advice people give here and I etch it in my heart and my brain..and I RUN with it,  I hear their voices in my head even at work in the daytime I have their words with me...I felt I had lost my faith i did not want to believe in God, I was angry with him (and in a way I still am) and I was in search of something,,,it took this forum and these people to open my eyes and see that I have to go..they have waled with me and held my up during my longest lonliest times,  Mother's day  I received so many e-mails it was unbelievable..my first without my mom,  thery were there for me and we, all of us will be here for you as well my friend     keep posting and may God be with you.....love to all            cin
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Hi Cindi, thanks for the welcome/feedback. I am currently in psychotherapy to try to work through my anxiety, depression, & obsessive-compulsive tendencies. I also have a psychiatrist who prescribes the Valium, and she's good about monitoring my dosage. Since I'm not abusing it (though after many years am definitely dependent), and it does help my quality of life, neither of us feel the need to discontinue. But if I ever do, I know it must be done slowly.
I don't know what it is about the Fioricet, except that it alone allows me to "forget my troubles" and feel "normal" (classic addictive characteristics, hm?) Fortunately none of the other stuff I've ever taken has gotten me high --  not codeine (except the first time), not Vicodin.
BTW, I'm also on Zoloft (which works pretty well for OCD but not so great for depression). That's another one I know I'll have to taper if/when the time comes.
I remember reading that you are/were a nurse -- my hat's off to you! I have a relative & several close friends in nursing, and I admire anyone who can do that job & do it well.
All best, Milo
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ever read spook's elaborate explanation of how you separate non-water soluble tylenol from water soluble hydrocodone? I probably took in the range of 50 to as many as 100 vicodin per day for about two years. On most of those occasions, I used a slightly cruder water method for separating the tylenol from the hydro and just drinking the hydro and dumping the tylenol sediment. Theatrical, I admit, but it worked. Problem was it was inefficient - I still got some tylenol and always missed a bit of the hydro.

Speaking as a drug addict more so than as a pain patient, the thought of a morphine pump was in itself intoxicating. You wouldn't get a complaint out of me as long as you kept my pump turned up! Seriously, I understand it made you sick. Narcotic-inspired nausea is about the worst kind I can remember having.

Hope today has been a good day and glad to hear that some of your procedures appear to be successful. Your post today was a lot more optimistic than yesterday's.
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Thanks for the input, Thomas. rest assured I would never stop a benzo abruptly -- I've heard too many horror stories. I've been taking one kind of benzo or another off and on for about 20 years, regularly for the past 10. They do improve my quality of life, and I'm not abusing them, so i imagine I'll be taking them for some time to come.
I've "stopped" the Fioricet (that is, run out) many, many times. When I first started taking it and was using it as directed, that was no problem -- the worst I'd experience was a recurring headache. But now that I've "discovered" its abuse potential, everything is, of course, more complicated.
So I guess right now I'm mainly in a position of wanting to "spill my guts" some people who won't judge or condemn me -- and hopefully be able to offer something in return. As I've looked at this forum, I've been greatly impressed by the kindness, wisdom, and thoughtfulness people have displayed.
Thanks, Milo
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Hi Everyone,
   Thanks for the letter back Thomas and Cindi. I always appreciate when someone writes back. I know there's a lot going on and new people I feel like need your help a lot. I hope they keep coming back.
   I wrote yesterday under (I think I'm dying) thread. You can read that and it will catch you up on the latest with my daughter. I could use some advice. Take a peek Thomas and you'll  see why your letter to me was so helpful. my neurologist wants me to go to oxycotin but he said it was because I was taking to many hydros a day. Is he for real.I told him I have never increased my dosage in 11 years and didn't feel it was a problem for me but he said it was already a problem for me. I get sick to the point of throwing up if I take enough meds that it makes my head swim. But anyhoo, I told him I don't want him injecting me with anymore shots of botox. They work great for a short time but then he shoots me with 20 to 30 shots of it at a time in my back and it's very nerve wrecking. So I'm putting that off for a while. They didn't help the pain. Only the sensation of touch where they cut me for my spinal surgery. I don't know anything about oxycotin though. I do understand it's long acting. Anything else you can add as far as pain bennifits,anyone?
  Please take a minute and read my letter under (I think I'm Dying) . Is there any chance my daughter can pass a urin test if she smoked pot last week? She goes to her probation officer on Thursday next week.
  Hang in there Milo. You've come to the right place for help and encouragement.
  God Bless you all,
         Kerrie
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There's no magic formula for fooling the UI tests, I'm afraid. The most successful tactic is to "Hydrate" before the test. That is, when you give them a sample it's as much water by percentage vs. drug metabolites as possible. For two or three days before the test, have your daughter contantly drink water, as much a she can stand to. The night before The test, have her take half a multivitamin to give her urine some normal color. Whatever she does, make sure she doesn't give them the first urine of the day. Get up early enough to urinate several times before going for the tests. When she gives the sample, start the stream in the toilet, not in the cup, fill the cup with what's left.

There are hokey products around that claim to help you pass UI's for pot but I haven't seen any evidence that they work. The best strategy is hydration, hidden by a multivitamin the night before, and don't give them the first pee of the morning or the beginning of the stream. That wil ensure that the ratio of water vs. drug metabolites is as extreme as possible. Only the really sensetive tests can detect anything if you follow these directions. Good luck.
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Maximus, I read your last post today and you said you and your wife were moved to tears. I just wanted to say that I also am weeping now as I try to imagine what it must be like to be in your shoes. I know I was quick to come to Thomas' defense from your 1st post but I know you understand why now. I said that Thomas had class, integrity and honor. I now say that so do you and your wife. To have gone through so much and none of it being your fault has got to be such a tremendos burdon. I have a long history of chronic pain and back surgery AND addictions. BUT nothing compared to what you have gone though. I have kept my faith in God that HE would not give me more then I could handle, and that faith has helped me along with my friends on this forum and my wife to get clean off opiates. I wanted to tell you that you ARE a REAL Gladiator and your handle of MAXIMUS fits you well. I shall pray for your peace and strength to fight your battle. I welcome you to our family circle and if for nothing else maybe you can accept me for moral support and consider my shoulder yours to lean on. By your example of strength and determination you have caused me to see how very fortunant I really am.God Bless you and your family. May God's Light & Peace be upon you. Stay strong and see the light.
Power & Magick 2 U Brother,
Wizard
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There is a tea you can buy at GNC. It's pretty expensive, like $34.95, anyway if you drink a gallon of it over a few hours, it's supposed to change your unrine screen. How do I know this? My exhusband is a former police detective, and I've had a few friends swear by it. Good Luck.     Love Susan
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Hi guys,,,,so far my brand new shiny computer is ok,,,some **** with a motmon program causes AOL to freeze...26 bucks a month  for aol...i'm looking into other internet thingys...you know what I mean  LOL  anyway  Thomas  did you ever hear of cranberry juice doing the trick?  i have  a firend who was bound and determined to pass an employment test..now here in Ohio the pre employment tests do not have to be with somone watching, i am not sure about probation..when I was on probation my PO never watched me but...anyway  my friend bought a kit from GNC and drank this stuff,  he ended  up calling me at work,,,,shitting his brains out and then when it turned into all water coming out his butt he was so dehydrated he had no urine to pee out....he was a mess..turns out this stuff was literally a laxative they use to prep you before colonoscopys etc....then he decided to ok.. are ya ready for this?  have a "clean friend" urinate in a condom,,,,tie the condom up  put it in hot water to keep the urine warm,, take it to the testing place in his pocket and when the time came  dump the urine in the specimen container...and voila,,,it worked....NO,  before I get blasted from anyone,  I am not encouraging anyone to do this,,,that is not my point  I am just totally amazed at the things people do to beat the system....I just never used while on probation and my urines were always clean  plus the fact that 3 months after I was put on probation I got pregnant....incentive for me....believe me hon, I am not judging your daughter,,,she has a problem and we know this,,,,my heart goes out to her, as I know what it is like to be the addict that still suffers...I was there....in time sweety this precious daughter of yours will come around as did Brighty's daughter and my mother's daughter.....when she is ready....perhaps paying the consequences may be enough  I don't knwo  but you mentioned that she is looking at three years for 1st offense?  in Mahoning County in Ohio we have drug court  where non-violent offenders looking a jailtime can get treatment  etc....it is an alternate and it really works  they have  a graduation ceremony for those that complet the program and the success rate is awesome.,,,I was considered a 1st time offender because my first time I was caught "diverting" they did not press charges....but I had 6 felonies for theft of narcotics, and they threw in 6 counts of deception to obtain a dangerous drug, also felonies and I was facing 18 months on EACH count....I was looking at Marysville,  a women's prison here AKA known as Johnny mop alley...not for me babe....Hang in there and May God be with you     love to all      cindi
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Hi. Thanks everyone for trying to help me with my daughter. I can't lie to you and say I'm not worried. But I know this is the only way she's ever going to listen. I don't want her to go to jail for 3 years and I've talked to her about getting admitted to rehab for help so they can see she wants to change. Whatever happens I know she needs help and I pray she gets it. But I know I can't do this for her.I talked with her and told her she isn't getting anymore pills on loan or otherwise from me ever again. I'm asking God to help me stand by this. She has a way of manipulating me. Cindi has shared her story with me and it is so helpful from a daughters view. Brighty has shared her daughters story with me and ,again,very helpful to me.Angelica and Wizard are always there to help with words of hope. Thomas is the wise owl I've grown to trust for insight on these drugs and hope for even the most addicted. So,please know how much I appreciate you all. I know there are others that have given me advice too and I don't mean to leave out anyone. I thank you all.Some of us converse more than others and I can recall these easy. I'm only 44 but I have a short memory. Not alzheimers,just oldtimers,as my brothers jokes.
   God Bless,
        Kerrie
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hey there,,,,,where ya'll been hiding?   LOL  was wondering about you......are you stealing all of Ohio's warm weather?   we are so cold and wet,,,yuk    hey  still find reason to eat al the food for our annual picnic....LOL  so we eat in the garage or the house but  we still have the picnic,,,,every year the weather is lousy..have a great day       love cin
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I had no idea you'd been through so much. I admire you for surviving with your spirit and sense of humor intact. I'm contantly amazed at what people endure just to hang on to the gift of life on more day ...
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Hi Maximus,
   I am glad you came back to the forum and everything was straightened out. That shows character on everyones part. I'm sure you've already seen you can find this forum a great place to talk to caring people. I am amazed at the amount of injury you and Angelica have been through. I know how hard it is to live with pain. I just wanted to tell you your in my prayers and I encourage you to come here and talk. I come here and say way too much.But their always kind enough to listen and reply. These friends have been a light in a sometimes dark place. I have a supportive husband but I feel like at times he is just tired of it all. He never has said that,just my emotions probley.But I can come here and talk to others who know what I'm talking about. I came seeking help for my daughter and found a place of comfort for myself. God bless you and hang in there.
   I wanted to tell everyone that my daughter and her family came for dinner today and she looked good. She told me she didn't know how messed up she was on the pot. She said she's thinking better and feeling more energy.Still in denial about the pills. She said their prescription so it's not a big deal. Yeah, right.
But this is a step in the right direction.
   God Bless,
         Kerrie
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Man alive.......no pun intended!  Thank you for sharing your story, and this might be a good thing to do when you start a group.  We have a lot in common, only you give new meaning to "there's always someones else worse off than, you!" I've only heard that a few hundred times.  Anyway, I was also involved in a mva accident years ago, and had over 28 broken bones(doctors,just stopped counting), and I was literally on my death bed bleeding uncontrollably.  I had a massive pelvic hematoma. Also, it took them several hours to cut me from the vehicle, and I was also air lifted to a hospital.  Given only a few more minutes,and I would have gone into shock or coma due to the loss of blood.  I belive a total of 11 units in a weeks time. My pastor prayed along side my bed, because there was nothing that dr's could do for me, and my family prepared for the worst.  Then, the bleeding just subsided.  A miracle from above, I believe.  Your story gave me chills, and brought back memories of my own.   you have come to a very good place.  Eventhough things got off to a rocky start, you'll be most glad in discovering this place. If your interested go to the thread titled Narcotics for chronic pain(to spare everyone the details again) and click here(i don't know how to make it a hot link) to read some of the ordeals i've had to endure:Comment By:  on Tuesday, April 17, 2001

http://www.arronb.virtualempire.com/main/painpolitics/quote.html

You may find this site interesting, and there are a lot of people that you can relate too, I also belong to other groups RE: chronic pain, if there is anything I can do, let me know.  
Many Blessing to you, and yours:
Angelica(formerly annie)
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My "story" is really very long,,,LOL   sometimes, we just have no choice but to go on...you sir, are to be admired and respected...you have struggled for such a long time with addiction....and the willingnes and desire to get clean is what matters most which you display proudly........love to you my friend      cin
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I dropped in to see how things have been going lately. I'm pleased to see that all my old buddies and a few more are here. As for Maximus, wow! You are indeed superb! I read your post about how you got your nickname. You have been to the other side of existance and that is something that has to be experienced for anyone to be able to recount. I've been there, too. In spite of terrible wounds to the body, we live! Your fighting spirit will prevail when the body fails and you will be remembered by all those that you have touched with that spirit.

I wish that I could say more but my vision has been failing me and things tend to get blurry.  I wish eveybody nothing but the best.  Peace and strength to you all!  J.B.
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I have missed reading your posts very much.....you are a very wise man and one to be respected....with your values, courage and strength through all you endured and are enduring......My prayers are with you and Marty..please,,send her love from us...and I know Angelica won't mind when I say us, meaning her and i...God bless you and I hope you feel better soon my friend   love cin
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Thank you for being so nice! You and Angelica are marvelously caring, compassionate people. It's so neat to be able to come here once in a while and be able to relax and take a break from my own private hell and hear some kind words! Now I feel that I can start my day with a smile on my face and head held high.  J.B.
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May God be with you and Marty      Love cin
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Have you been taking those little jogs lately. LOL  I just ordered the Bun and thigh rocker....LOL  Also, we are getting an above ground pool.  Then low and behold, I've found a new pain doctor who wants, not only to prescribe (maybe)medication, but to get inside my brain(phsychiatric evaluation), and put me through rigorous physical rehabilitation......Well, Jb just when you think you have it all figured out, someone puts a mickey in your plans.....I hate physical rehab, but if that's what I gotta do, I guess I have no choice.  Hope your well, lately???  Nice to see ya post!
Love,
Angelica
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I've never been very religious but I'm 'learning to talk to god in AA. When we say the next closing prayer, I will be praying for you and your daughter.

All my best to you.

Thomas
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Kerrie I'll keep praying for you and your daughter. Never give up hope and don't despair. It sounds like there might be a little Divine intervention going on here. Maybe each time she gets a little closer to the light!  You know MIRACLES do happen :-) Keep the faith and remember WE are are here for you  (the little angels that we are). God bles you and your family.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace and Light on us all,
Wizard
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I wanted to mention everyone by name that I could.I wanted to tell you that my daughter has vowed to get off the drugs. All of them.She went to her probation officer yesterday,a day early, because she got a call at the last minute to do so. The night before I did buy her some of the drink from GNC like was mentioned by someone here. She took it. Then when she got there she was given her instructions,do's and don'ts.She was informed she would be sent to Georgia to do time if she broke her probation or failed to pay her fine.Then she was asked if she was willing to have a drug test.She agreed and had to sign a paper. Then the probation officer told her if she'd keep her nose clean she would give her low maintenance probation in July.She then told her she could go. No drug test !!!!! The best part is she has to go to drug NA or AA. She is weaning herself off the hydros she says. I told her I will pray for her but she has to prove herself to me this time. I'll support her anyway I can if it's bennificial. I have been down the I promise you road before. I just have to pray that she means it this time.She says she feels so much better being off the pot.
  Now I have been going for a lot of tests. The doctors are concerned my disease is no longer in  remission. They said I have outlived anyone they have known with this disease. I don't believe they'll find it. I can't even keep up with my appointments I've got so many. Tomorrow I'm off to Nashville for IVP. I have stones. Lucky me. But keep me in your prayers. My daughter gets very worried when the doctors start these tests because we know it's fatal. But then when the tests came back good before ,she returned to doing everything. I'm praying that won't happen this time.  
  I may be too tired for a few days to write but I'm reading. I really don't think they'll find my disease is active again.But just keep me in your prayers anyway. I need them to keep from going insane from all these tests.
  It's great how you all took Maximus under your wings. Keep up the good work.Cindi,I hope your feeling better.Angelica,I'm happy you found a good doctor.God sure is good to us, isn't He?
    God Bless,
          Kerrie
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I meant your story to Noel & Maximus. You ARE the warrioress!!!
Peace & Light on you,
Wiz
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Your awesome, and just an all around nice (open-minded) guy!  
Thank you for the nice complement Re; Noel....Were you reading my mind....I was asking myself the same questions...I think you hit the nail on the head in that response.
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Just wanted to say hi to you. Was a long hot (107 degrees) day today and I didn't post much. Back hurting me but I went back and read your story to Maximus and I just don't feel so bad anymore. God bless you for your strength and example Angelica.
Power & Magick Wizard dust 2 U :-),
Wiz
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.......Just look at what an inspiration you are...you've got us all praying....LOL  Hang in there...Your on the top of the list tonight!
Love and many blessings
Angelica
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Thank you ever so kindly sir....LOL  I know i've read it somewhere before, but can not recall what exactly happend to your back???  Do you have access to a pool?  This happens to be the best exercise for people w/ injuries, because of the no weight baring factor.  This is what helped me to walk again years ago, after being immobile for 4months.  
I have to tell you.....how inspiring it is to hear that I am a warrioress....LOL  My family takes my success for granted.  My doctors remind me often, of what a miracle recovery I've had, and People like you remind me of that!  Thank you, truly!
....and you too Cin!!!!  What great friends, i've found here.
Love you guys........
Angelica
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Angelica, to answer your question, yes I am lucky enough to have a pool and you are very right in that it does relieve the pressure on the back.  My story goes something like this: I was a competitive runner all through my late teens to late 30
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Hi Kerrie,  ya know,  I just hate myself sometimes...I had such a horrid day yesterday..It was such a "mom" day.  and you, one of those people here i care so much about are in such need of help and prayers....Kerrie,  right now as I sit here and type this all out,,,one more time the tears won't stop but this time they are all for you, and through e-mail as with all of my friends here I have come to know and love you as if ou live in my own back yard...between Sweet Angel Angelica the wonderful wonderful Wiz he IZ, Thomas the wiseman and myself if we all talk to God  one at a time he has really no choice but to her us now does he?  I have to get to work same ol story late again and I'm in charge today..yippee..I love you and I will pray so very hard for you my dear...Love to all  cin
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WOW!...Thank you, and don't apologize.  Very interesting.  One thing I'm worried about, and something you've stated, has caught my attn.  You said that you were taking the pills for headaches, also.  Well, I have chronic sinus problems, partly hereditary, and due to a damaged septum from the mva....which was corrected through sinus surg  a few yrs ago.  Well, needless to say, I take medication on and off for this, and now since i've built a tolerance up....nothing will work on these severe sinus headaches, but (you guessed it) the pain meds.  One amazing thing, is that my sinus problems haven't been acting up lately, but you know this is another factor we all need to take into consideration: it's like a trade-off w/ the devil or something, or actually a bitter sweet situation, because you get this great relief, but will have to depend on it for everything, and anything that comes up....once you've started taking these strong pain medications......plain old Tylenol, just won't cut it.  Another issue, which I mentioned to Tom a while back, is when you go into surgury(emergency or otherwise).....your soooo tolerant to pain meds, that they will have to titrate your pain medication, and then you suffer through this.  I went through this a couple of months ago, when I had the hardware removed from my leg.  I was only given 5mg of hydro, and this was a very painful surg.  I was delirious from the pain(for 3 days 24hrs around the clock)....it was terrible, and my doctor said that this was all he could prescribe.....so I was virtually toughing it out, because the hydros did nothing.  This was frightening, and misery to say the least.  But there you have it.....the 5mgs was fine for the pre-surgery pain, but not enough post surgery.  I felt like I was living in pre-historic times, or just left to heal out in the dessert or something....lol
Well, I've gotta tell ya: "your pretty tough, yourself!"  I mean you still battle this pain..mainly on your own.  I will tell you this, and I hope it helps....I had a torn acl, bone spurs and  arthritis about a year ago, and underwent arthroscopic knee surgery.....I walked on this knee for years w/ all of this damage, and the only medication that seemed to help was Naprosyn...actually Aleve is better because it's formulated to work faster, and there are no official studies, but it seems to have cartalidge building properties to it.  My husband has a torn cartl., and this is what he takes, and he's back on his feet in no time.  I just wish it worked as well, for everything else.....I guess you become somewhat tolerant to everything, taken long enough.  Well, Wiz.....  Certainly got it all figured out.  My hats off to ya!  Hang in there....You are definately an inspiration to me.
Love and many blessings
Angelica
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Hi. I'm so very tired after being on the road at 6:30 this morning to go to the doctor. I didn't plan to write tonight,just read. But I can't do it. Your kind words are so uplifting and I just had to tell you how much I appreciate all your prayers. I want to tell you with all my heart I believe I'm going to be alright. I wish I had this much faith in my daughter. But I will keep supporting her like each of you do me.
  Wizard, I read your story and I'm am very proud of you. What determination you guys have. I have degenerative disk disease and  I though my back was the only thing on me that wasn't broken until I had the Cyst on the spinal chord. It didn't hurt. I just suddenly went paralized one day.Then it turned out to be the cause of my horrible headaches. So they did surgery and now I have back problems to boot. Then a poor excuse for a doctor, did a bone marrow biopsy in my back at the T12 L1 level. Blew it out.
I attempted to make him pay for his stupidity but quickly learned that all doctors stick together. Long story short. My back is a mess. I went from jogging 4 miles a day and arobic exercise to 220 lbs of pain. I can't bend over. My legs are still weak but I can walk,so thank God.But we bought an above ground pool so I could get some exercise. But would someone send some warm weather our way. It's the coolest May I've seen in Tennessee in 18 years.
Now I've lost down to 180 to 185 lbs. and maybe God thinks I deserve a break somewhere besides my bones. Just kidding. I don't deserve anything but a good spanking now and then. I just admire your courage to go without the pain meds. I can't bear the pain in my back.
  Thomas, I'm glad your a strong advocate for AA. I've known them to be good for a lot of people. I printed off the 12 step program and gave it to my daughter. I imagine it's in the garbage somewhere. I read it though,it's inspirational for sure. I do believe in prayer. God has seen me through so much , and when I underwent the two surgeries that lasted 10 and 12 hours, I prayed God would take my fear away. The day of each surgery, I was more worried about the I.V. than how long the surgery would take. He is an awsom God. I thank you for your prayers.
  Cindi, You are going through a very normal time hon.When my father died, I didn't think I would ever quit crying.Your going to be fine. You have a strong faith and love and concern for others. I have asked God to return your joy to you and ease your pain. You've heard the old saying. I was sad I had no shoes until I saw a man that had no feet? Your sad because you lost someone you dearly loved. How wonderful it is to have that kind of relationship with your mom. I miss my mom a lot. But I wish I had  had a relationship with her like you had with your mom. But I know some people never had what I had. They never knew their moms at all. You hang in there. Your very normal.
  Angelica, You inspire me as always. I know you suffer with chronic pain as I do. But your concern for others is always what I hear from you. Do you ever complain? Your making me look bad girl. I wish I had your stamina. Your truly a friend in deed. God bless you.
  Bless you all. I will shut up now. I just wanted to tell you all how great you are. Friends are people who come in when the whole world has gone out. Thank You.
     God Bless,
          Kerrie
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You guys are too cool  wow,   alot of pain,,,I admire you both so much,,,pain management if a nasty thing when yiu are an addict but i just talked with someone tonight who said her non addict hubby has ben on percocet for while now and they are making him irritable,,today he did not take any and went into withdrawals....i have been on Norco and Vicodin for awhile for this pain that FINALLY has been partially diagnosed  waiting for an MRI of my back....rule out blown discs....I know when the time comes to get off the vis I will have to taper...hard to do but I'll have to ....Wiz, you have no clue how much of an inspiration you are to me.....you have fought this on your own,,,and Angelica,  you are proof it can be done with going overboard...I have had a really really difficult 2 days....very sad,,,crying alot and missing my mom so very much....on the 25th it will be six months I have not seen my mom,, I can eat all the pills in the world but the pain is not gone....tell me if this is normal...for the past week of two I have been totally overprotective of my daughter,,,,,I have actually been so afraid something is going to happen to her while I am not there,,,that is one of the reasons I went to the zoo with her....I am not so fearful of my son because he is with me 24/7  he comes to work with me and everywhere I go....so he is safe with me....all though tomorrow he is going to chuckie cheese with a teacher at the pre-school am I scared?   terrified, but he will be ok there....I have this feeling of doom or something...I'm sure it's a passing thing...thought I was developing Some obsessive disorder or something...well, I've babbled long enough.....I love you guys   cin
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Hang in there I will, for sure darlin! I went down the Naprosyn road and it didn't do much for me. i just got approved by my insurance for Vioxx finally after fighting for a month with them. It seems they would pay forever on the opiates but get something non-narcotic that you take once a day and it cost's more @ $140.00 for 30 pills, and I had to jump through hoops. It kinda pissed me off that the decision to authorize it was being made by non medical clerical people. They turned it down and I called them myself and threw a flaming fit on the phone LOL. I asked the person what her medical degree was and she said she didn't have one. I said "Ohhhhh, I see, you'll pay for me to get addicted and high but not to get well? I got the silence treatment a minute. I asked her are you gonna pay for my funeral?  Bottom line I got a letter saying that they would pay for my Vioxx for life as long as I was on the plan LOL. What I've been doing is alternating the Vioxx and 1600mg of Motrin which seems to get me through the days when I'm bad. I don't take them both on the same day though. Any way it seems to make it tolerable, just no high from it. The 1600mg motrins work fairly okay for the headaches too. I just have to learn how to relive my life "Dragon" free! Thank God I have had an iron cast stomach LOL.  Angilca, YOU keep inspiring as you do also.
I'll be praying and casting good Wizard dust on ya!
Power & Magick 2 U,
luv 2 all,
Wiz
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Don't you dare shut up girl! Talking, helping, unloading and praying for each other is what this forum is for.You are so very right about the man with no shoes. There is ALWAYS someone in worse shape then ourselves. You have been through so much and yet you also continue tto keep your faith and go on with life. I admire you tremendously lady. The Wizard here will keep you in his thoughts and prayers. Kerrie, you just keep on keeping on!
You've got angels in your corner!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on ya,
Wiz
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Kerrie,  I am so glad to hear from you....you have been on my mind...send me some mail and let me know what went on with your testing?   Get some rest, that is what you need right now,,,You deserve it....God is with you.....and I have said a prayer and  many for you and your daughter....and everyone else here....You will be fine,I know you will...and so will your daughter,  It takes times for us to see the light...one day soon she will have a complete change come over her..I can see the changes now when you talk of her....the miracle is happening now only it takes time.   Ohio has not sunshine for the past week,  we alos have had the coldest may that I can remember...but the summers can get down right nasty  with the high humidiy which is a whiner like me's worst enemy...LOL   I don't know how the hell I'm gonna stand Florida... ahhhhhhh  but the Ocean, the sand, the shells, suntans, palm trees, sleeping in the pool when my dad takes the kids....    I CAN handle it  LOL   and I can finally be with my dad....funny, when we are younger we need to get away from the master parents,  LOL  now I need to be with him....I'll tell ya what we need this weekend,,,we need to not be so serious and let loose.....Ok   Did ya hear about the blonde...(sorry blondes) that thought ROE vs WADE was the decision that George Washington had to make when he crossed the  Delaware?   ROFLMAO     OKEY DOKEY    AHEM>>>>>>>>>   have a great day  catch ya'll later  Love to all   cin
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I have been thinking about you the last couple of days. This Monday the 4th will be 4 years ago my mom died of cancer. I know this will not really help you when I say this, but time does heal the pain. My mom was diagnosed with brain cancer Jan. 4th 1997, she was 68 years old. She had surgery to remove the tumor, she refused chemo and radiation. They told her she had 6 months at the most. During this time my mother  had the most fun she had ever had. She became a very loving and wonderful mom and grandmother. As the months went by, she began to forget things, who we were, where she was. Finally we put her in Hospice. She lived in Pinellas County Fla. There she said she was so happy, she had her garden and her angels. When her time came, she went with such peace. We in the family were so lucky that she never suffered. No pain, nothing. It was hard at first, the first year or so. There is no pain imaginable, no pain so permenant, no pain so awful, as losing your mother.  One day I woke up, and the sadness had lifted alittle. As the months went by, it got better and better. Now when I think of my mom, I smile, I remember how wonderful she was. When I go to my parents grave (my day died in 1988 from the same thing) I feel such peace. The pain never goes away, but it does change. On monday when we go to Arlington Cemetary to see my mom and dad. My little boys will each take a helium balloon and send it up to heaven to them. This has been a ritual all these years for them. They were so small when she died that this was the only way I could get them to understand where they were. Look inside yourself, remember all the good and wonderful things she taught you. She gave you compassion and love, because I see it everyday here from you to others. Your ability and understanding, wanting to reach out and help others all stem from how you were brought up. I see your mother as a very special woman, she gave the world you. In time you will find peace. I am here for you always.....Much love to you Cindi....Susan
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My God, what would I do without you guys here,,,you are so warm and caring..my mom suffered for so long,  i stayed in Ohio to take care of her especially since my sister moved out of state....She siffered unitl about 12 hours before her death...it eats at me that I was not with her,,but wiz and everyone else have helped me to understand that It was meant for me not to be with her when she died..for reason unknown to me....I just hope she is not angry with me for not being there at the hour of her death....I had been there when she went into the coma and she hung on all night and died in the morning...the hospital called me on christmas eve and said she would not make it till morning to stay home and take care of my gramma and my family,  mom had no knowledge of what was going on....they called in the morning and said to come up she had taken a bad turn  I knew what that meant  I'm the nurse that always got elected to call the family and we were not allowed to say the patient died  so I knew,,,,I made it too late,,,she died before I got there,....I live with guilt all though my friends here have made it easier for me to deal with....I feel better at the cemetary but now i am selling her house, my childhood home...her memories, her life, and picking out a tombstone...i cannot handle too much more.....today and the past few days the pain is overwhelming...i broke down at the skating ring yesterday at my daughter's skating party  they played a song from when my mom and I used to go skating and it was too much...little things like that..now I am moving away and once again i feel guilty for leaving her behind....why?  i feel i may never be as i was before,,,a piece of me died when my mom died....my spirit is broken but I have my kids and my husband....they are healthy and I am blessed...I just can't believe it has been almost 6 months since I have seen my mom,,,i would talk to her a few times a day and she lived 2 minutes from me..anyway.. I have to go,,,this is just too hard right now....thank you for listening to  me babble again......I love you all   cindi
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My computer went nuts and it posted without my doing it !
  Anyway, I 'll finnish my thought.
  Your a kind loving person with much to give.You will be better in time Cindi. Dreary days and holidays are easy days for us to get depressed. Stay busy and keep sharing.
  I use to live in Lakeland,Fl. I was between Disney World and the beach. When will you be moving? It will be good for you to be close to your father. You have much happiness ahead of you. I know Wizard and Angelica and many others are praying for you and God answers prayers.
  I will e-mail you about my test yesterday.
  My daughter was mad because I wouldn't keep her boys today. She was either stoned or high on some other drug. She really wants to change and I know she will someday. With all the prayers going up for her she'll either change or be very miserable. I believe she will see the light. In time.Remind, in time.
     God Bless,
         Kerrie
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Thanks so much for your concern and kind words my friends. You help me so much.Thanks for all the prayers. I can always tell when I'm being prayed for. I have a feeling of strength and warmth and well being. You'll never know how much you help me.But someday God is going to say "Well done my child, well done".
  Cindi,keep talking.Don't stop. When you feel the tears coming, let them flow. It is part of the healing process. I still break down and cry when I least exspect it. Things that remind me of my dad,my grandmother,my mom. But thank God I have those memories. I know you can't understand it right now, but the tears will come leass frequent as time goes on. The pain will not be as strong.It's like after you have surgery. The pain you have when you first awake is so horrible and you can't imagine how anything that painful will feel better in a few weeks. To the point that it's all a memory. Now you remember the pain and you have a scar from it but you've made it through the hard part and now your better. As time passes ,you regain your strength and become stronger and stronger. (
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Thanks so much for your concern and kind words my friends. You help me so much.Thanks for all the prayers. I can always tell when I'm being prayed for. I have a feeling of strength and warmth and well being. You'll never know how much you help me.But someday God is going to say "Well done my child, well done".
  Cindi,keep talking.Don't stop. When you feel the tears coming, let them flow. It is part of the healing process. I still break down and cry when I least exspect it. Things that remind me of my dad,my grandmother,my mom. But thank God I have those memories. I know you can't understand it right now, but the tears will come leass frequent as time goes on. The pain will not be as strong.It's like after you have surgery. The pain you have when you first awake is so horrible and you can't imagine how anything that painful will feel better in a few weeks. To the point that it's all a memory. Now you remember the pain and you have a scar from it but you've made it through the hard part and now your better. As time passes ,you regain your strength and become stronger and stronger. (
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Stop beating yourself up about not being there. Maybe that was your mom's way of making it easier for you. My mom died 4 days after I left her in Fla. I thought for sure I would see her again in two weeks. My sister lives there and I would go down from Va. every 2 or 3 weeks over 5 months. I believe my mom didn't want me to have to do that again. My dad died an hour after I left him in hospice. I truly believe when their moment comes, whether they are concious or not, their spirit knows what's going on. If you feel like you have somethings left unsaid, talk to her. I've said before, my mother is my guardian angel, she is with me always. I feel her as much today, as when she was with us here on earth. I truly believe that some people, especially those with a terminal illness, see the angels. My mom would talk to hers, tell us all about her, how beautiful she was, and her name was Rafael. Strange thing, my mother was never religious at all, we never said grace, no prayers. But in her last months here, she believed. Just remember your mom is in a better place, no more pain, she's with other's she loved, her mom, her dad. She's just watching over you.  Love you....Susan
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What's up ..this is for Maximus I can't see your we're just asking for an answer and ppl put there negativeness in what they call an answer... Anyway I am on paxil and methadone ... I take my methadone at 5:30-6 am everyday and my Paxil around 9-9:30 pm every note and it works wonders for me ... Just because Maximus gets his pain felt with with the methadone you can still be depressed ... Idk y Thomas said that for example you can be depressed over guilt , your past, deaths that occurred pain isn't the only reason for depression that was way off .. Anyway don't stop taking your Paxil just do the times I shared with you and it will help my Paxil doesn't mess with my methadone at all and if u take it at night it will also help with sleep .. Hope this helped you
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