Posting for a friend, wants to start a methadone taper

[faith_hope_love]

I wanted to wait until I had the correct information before I asked for help for my  friends son who is on methadone but wants off of it and wants to be off of any drugs.  In other words he does not want to go the suboxone route.  

He is on 110 mg of methadone.  He goes to a methadone clinic and started there in Aug. of  '07.  I think when he started going to the clinic that they brought him up to 110 mg pretty quickly and that is where he has stayed ever since.  He hates it too. I think what intially brought him to the clinic was him taking OC's but I don't think he had been taking them for a very long time and not everyday so he probably could have detoxed off them without going to methadone.  Unfortunately I don't think he realized at the time what he was getting into with methadone and how you can't just quit when you are tired of it.

I told him how many here have done long tapers and how some have jumped off at different mgs.  I told him that I would start a thread asking for all the advice I could gather and then print it out for him.  I really want him to know all the facts so that he is going into this knowing what he is doing and what works best so he can be successful in the long run.

As I said he is on 110mg.  He gets no take homes.  Just recently he hasn't been able to get there every day (clinic is out of town) so he goes every two days and because of that they drop him down to 80mg.  Of course if he does happen to make it the next day they bring him right back up to 110mg.  He say's he is ok at 80mg. as far as not getting too sick so not sure if that should be his starting point.  I suggested that he tell the clinic that he wants to start a long taper so they might help more. (I hope that was ok, I have read on here how some clinics don't work with people too well)

So, there it is, how does he begin this road to recovery?  Thanks in advance! Lyn

[Friend999]

Hang tight, because, as you know, there will be replies...soon.

I personally cannot help you, or your friend's son, but I do wish to compliment you on what you said"

"I told him how many here have done long tapers and how some have jumped off at different mgs.  I told him that I would start a thread asking for all the advice I could gather and then print it out for him.  I really want him to know all the facts so that he is going into this knowing what he is doing and what works best so he can be successful in the long run"

You gave him excellent advice.  One of the things he should know is that methadone is tough to get off of, with physical withdrawals lasting up to 3 weeks.  How tapering helps that would probably be due to what his dose is when he finally jumps off.  

Thank you for helping him.  We have many people on here like you, but we need more!

My best to you!

Friend999

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks!  I just know that educating yourself is key and how I learned that was from here.  You don't feel as powerless if you go into detox/recovery with as much information and tools as possible.  

I know a few things about methadone from reading the articles and posts here but not nearly enough and I want him to hear from people who have been there and done that.  He doesn't have access to a computer on a regular basis but I did show him the message board today and that I would be making a thread for him and he was really happy to hear that.  I think for a while he was starting to feel hopeless about the situation.  He is only 23 and I want him to have everything he needs to get this past him so he can go on with his life.  He's a really nice young man and I know he can do this.

[Friend999]

A few people replied to a question posed 15 hours ago " How to best detox off methodone?".  Its just down this page about halfway.  You might want to read.

My best to you.

Friend999

[sadinmichigan]

Hi there..that is wonderful that you want to help him..The methadone clinics are really something...just because someone misses a day or two the paitient gets penalized...(what does that tell ya)..anyway..if he just recently dropped down to 80 from 110..that is quite a big drop and he won't feel it for several days or maybe even a week..but he will feel it..I jumped off methadone cold turkey at 65 mg...the withdrawals are extremely bad..and last alot longer than getting off pills...i too went to methadone because of pills..BIG mistake...but they don't really tell you the truth until it's too late if at all..anyway..he could start a slow taper..i have no experience in doing a taper except from 70mg to 65..that took me over a month and i felt the w/ds the whole time..The only thing he can do is ask about doing a taper..i don't know how his clinic works...but where i went you could taper as you wanted..eventually he will be down to whatever mgs...but he will not be able to avoid w/d..I am having some computer trouble but will be happy to answer any other questions..he can do this..and yes it is very difficult, but not impossible..sounds like he has a little bit of support and that is definatley helpful..

[faith_hope_love]

Hi sad, I remember seeing you post about going CT from 65mg. and I just can't imagine how you managed that. You are one strong woman..lol.  I bet the wd's were awful!  I am so glad you are done now.

I did tell him today that I thought some people who were doing tapers were only dropping 5mg per month but not sure on that. Thanks for posting!

[Becky102]

Read Skippy Sizemore's journal to see what it's like going cold turkey.  She kept a day by day account of her experience and it's pretty horrifying.  Skippy - if you're reading this - I'm impressed!
I've been following different people's experiences coming off methadone over the last few months as my husband is trying to get off methadone after 14 years.  He's gone from 120 mgs to 70 so far without too many problems, but most people say it doesn't usually get too hard until you get below 30 mgs.
Penelope14 took over a year to detox from methadone, and although it was hard, she didn't seem to have as hard a time as others who went cold turkey.  In the end she was decreasing her dose a mg at a time.  Feohmoon, a couple from North Carolina, did a faster taper and quit cold turkey at 7.5mgs.  They used a lot of supplements and said that it was a lot better experience (although still hard) than when they detoxed from methadone without the supplements.  I bought CalMag and Natural Calm (calcium and magnesium supplements in powder form that you make into a drink) because they swore by it.
If you look in FlAddict's journals you'll find an article by Dr. David Arneson on Methadone/Opiate withdrawal that is very informative and lists the medications and supplements that he recommends for his patients.  I printed that one out for my husband.  You should also print out the Amino Acid Protocol and the Thomas Recipe as they give you a list of supplements and medications that help to ease withdrawals and have been used by many on this forum with success.  You can usually find both of those articles in the Most Viewed Health pages on the right side of your screen.
One last tip that I've read:  hot baths.  they help with the cramping and restless leg syndrome.
Hope this helps.  I'm hoping it will help my husband when the time comes.

[worried878]

I do know some clinics make it a haslsle to taper...may be cash related i do not know...if it is liquid...one member on here just would spit out the rest of her dose and the nurses did not have a problem with that..she tapered that way instead of doing the red tape...if u get take homes it would be easier to taper...why is he not getting take homes?...usually it is because a rule was broken...he needs to talek to the clinic director and do a slow taper that could last like a year

[sadinmichigan]

yes..going cold turkey off of methadone at 65 mg was every bit as horrifying as one can imagine..i am not strong by any means..i had no choice in the matter and I really did not know what i was going to be in for..i knew I would be sick but I had NO idea that it was going to be as horrible and long as it was..I was very very sick for at least 3 weeks. I could do absolutely nothing..I could not take care of my children or barely even walk up the stairs.(I stayed in the basement for the entire 3 weeks of the worst of it) i did not want my children to see me like that..My husband was able to take work off to take care of me and our kids..In total it took about 6 weeks to actually feel like a human being..that is the cold hard truth..I hated going to that clinic everyday because it was humiliating and I just wanted off that poison..As hard as it was i made it through and I am very very glad I did. I will have 2 years on Aug 1...i can't believe it!

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks all!

Becky - thanks for all the info to look up.  Seems like I read one of the articles by a dr. for methadone withdrawal.  It was the one where he gave very detailed information on what amino's/vitamins to use.  I think I will just print out whatever I can find.  Oh, and I hope Penelope will post to this thread because I would like my friend to read what she did to detox as well.  Best of luck to your husband!  He's lucky to have you helping him.

worried - I am not sure why he doesn't get take homes.  I will have to ask.  I do know he can't get there everyday so don't know if that is the reason.  He might have smoked some weed and that caused him to get no take homes but I don't know.  From what I know he doesn't play around like and take chances but he might have messed up..I will see.  It would be so much easier if he could get the take homes.  We could get a taper plan going and be done with worrying about that part.  He doesn't get liquid he gets pills.

sad - I just can't imagine.  If you don't mind me asking, what were the worst symptoms?  How was your sleep?  Did you go days without sleeping?  Two years is wonderful!

PS>  I want to add that his friend (they were girlfriend and boyfriend but are now just friends and live apart) started the methadone clinic the same time as him and I know they have her dose at 150mg. now.  I don't know her very well but still worry for her.  These are young adults...he is 23...I am not sure of her age but it is near the same.  Think of that for a minute.  If he is at 110 mg and her at 150 mg at their age imagine where they will be in 10 yrs. if these idiots from the clinic keep raising there doses. It makes me mad.  This is not for pain management.  

[sadinmichigan]

Hi there..hope your having a good day..
the reason he probably isn't getting take homes is because he has most likely failed a drug test by having THC in it or any other thing he might take illegal or legal if he doesn't have a script for it...that is the way they work here in Michigan..The methadone clinics are much different as opposed to getting it prescribed in pill form by a Dr..Also you have to be in them for a long time to get take homes..It takes years to get them for a week at a time and about 3-6months with a clean drug test..to just have to go 3 days a week .it's a pain..also they penalize you at the "clinics" if you miss your stupid dose..i do not understand that at all...
Anyway..the w/d I had was very severe and I can't honestly say what was the worst thing to deal with..I know for about 2 weeks straight I rocked back and forth on my bed wishing for death..There was absolutely NO sleeping through it..I literally rocked my mattress off my boxspring every few hours. The withdrawal is very hard to explain..My muscles were extremely weak for about 5 weeks..I could only walk around for a few minutes at a time..I would say the absolute worst of it lasted about 3 weeks..It seems like an eternity though.I could not eat or drink anything without throwing up..it really was my worse nightmare and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy..
You are right to be concerned for his friend..150mg is alot..why so much?? does she want off it? you are obviously a very caring person..i feel so bad for anyone who is on methadone trying to get off of it..I can say that i was very foolish when I decided to go that route and wished someone would have tried to stop me.
TO ANYONE_Please DO NOT even think about the methadone route to get off a pill addiction..That is 100 times worse and you will wish with all your heart you hadn't done it..

[kim715]

I'm so sorry for your friends situation.I too took the methodone to overcome a pill addiction {vicodin}.If I knew then what I know now I NEVER would have touched the methodone.Your friend is on alot higher dose then I ever was,I only ever was up to 35 mgs.I tried to taper twice,but I did it really fast,and went down to 5mgs. both times,but because I did it so fast,the people at my clinic were idiots to say the least and I would be surprised if they knew how to even spell the word methodone,I was sooooo sick I jumped back up,which made them very happy because they were still getting my money.I finally got to the point where I knew there wasn't going to be an easy way out and I jumped off at 25mgs. a little over 2 months ago.The w/ds were long and really rough.For the first 2 weeks I could not even move I was so sick.I can honestly say it took me about a month before I actually didn't feel physically ill everyday.I don't think methodone should ever be given to someone who has an addiction to pills thats my opinion and others are entitled to theirs.Penelope did a real slow taper and she would probably be able to help you the most because I wouldn't suggest anyone jump off at that high a dose.I am not a strong person by any means when it comes to w/ds,but I made it through and your friend can to.It is possible to be rid of methodone.Please tell them that I will keep them in my prayers and that they can do it ,and that I'm always here if they or you need to talk.I wish you all the best and pm Penelope about the tapering I know she would be happy to help another be free of this evil drug too.I wish you all the best.Peace.    Kim

[faith_hope_love]

Thanks Kim and sad for posting.  The more he hears about other's stories(good and bad) the better.  

I also cannot understand why they put people on methadone for pain pill addiction since they know that the withdrawals will be so much longer and harder.  I remember one time a few years ago I was talking to an aquaintence and mentioned that I worried about what lortab was doing to my liver an she said that I should just ask the dr. to switch me from lortab to methadone..that methadone wouldn't hurt my liver, that it was great for pain, etc. etc.  I never followed through on it and thank God I didn't but it was simply because I forgot.  At the time, I had no idea of how bad methadone could be and I shudder to think if I were to have pursued that with my dr. because he probably would have prescribed it.  

I am lucky in one way that I am a scaredy cat when it comes to taking strong drugs so I never took OC's because of all the bad I heard.  Then there was a time that my dr. mentioned me taking timed release morphine instead of the lortab..can't remember why.  Anyhow, just the word morphine scared me so I told him I would try a very low dose.  He gave me 10mg. timed release and thank God they made me sick so I flushed them.  

I am going to see if I can find skippy sizemore's journal now like Becky said and read her story.  Thanks again and keep posting on anything you all think he might need to read.

[AddictedtoPain]

As I read through this, I felt the need to say something about methadone. Now, this is just from my own personal experience; I am no expert and don't pretend to be.

Having said that, I am surprised at the reaction that the mere mention of methadone seems to get. Of course, my personal experiences with it are very diifferent from most here, so maybe that explains it.

Anyway, after going thru w/d's (from percocet-I would take a months worth in about 5 days) every month for about 6 months, I finally asked someone I occasionally got pain meds from some advise on what to do about w/d's. They immediately said I should try methadone. Now, I'm not talking about 80-150 mg's worth...I'm talking about 1-2 ten mg pills a day for 3-5 days. It absolutely worked for me...kept me from going thru w/d's completely. It was a God-send.

Now, some will see that as blasphemy, but I truly feel that way. I knew I wasn't going to quit taking the percocets, even though going through w/d's will surely make one think about it. However, I loved the high too much, I had a constant supply, have insurance, and also have a valid need for them.

Anyway, as I said, I'd take 1-2 ten mg pills a day for 3-5 days. Normally, I'd only take one a day for three days, but if I had been on a "binge", I'd take a little more.

The great thing, at least for me, is that I don't get any sort of high from the methadone. Just relief from the w/d's. I wasn't taking enough to get addicted to them either. In this way, taking very little for a short period of time, they absolutely did the job I hired them to do. :)

Anyway, just wanted to throw this out there. I'd hate to see someone suffering from w/d's if they have the access to methadone but are too afraid to take it. Of course, being addicts means we have to watch how we take ANY drug. And that should be a concern for anyone taking methadone to get through w/d's. But, if your desire to quit is sincere, and you are determined to get off pain meds but are simply afraid of becoming addicted to methadone, my advice would be to try it...but only in the way I have described!  The pain of w/d's is very real, and can cause much more damage than just the physical. If you can't work, as I couldn't when in withdrawal, there is the possibility of losing your job.

And, as I said, thank God they don't get me high, because I probably would have taken alot of them, only to end up either switching addictions or having 2 addictions.

I truly believe that if someone took a real small dose for a short period of time, just to get through the worst of w/d's, then they'd be real satisfied w/the methadone. It worked for me, that's all I can say!

I hope no one thinks I'm being reckless w/this advise, but I truly feel for those going through withdrawal. If you're not on a real high dose of your doc, or haven't been on them for too long, methadone, if taken as I described!, absolutely will/can get you through w/d's, and if the fear of w/d's are all that is stopping you from quitting drugs altogether, then I say give it a shot!

Just remember, methadone is very addictive and absolute h-e-l-l to get off of, so you don't want to take alot of them or for longer than a few days.

[sadinmichigan]

thanks for your post..I guess for me personally I wish I had been told that by anybody when I went looking for help to get off the pain killers..I wasn't even presented with a plan like that..and that is my warning to the many people that get fooled into taking methadone for any longer than a week.and also understanding that it is a potentially lethal drug..I believe it becomes more lethal to people who buy it off the streets and people that go to the many methadone clinics that are run throughout the country and don't have your best interest at heart...I can only speak to my experience..it definately is a painful miserable drug to come off cold ..I do understand what you are saying though..