Pregnant, on Fentanyl & TERRIFIED !

[Melissa_1982]

I am currently 23 weeks pregnant, on 100 mcg per 2 days of Fentanyl & due to a miscalculation by my dr have NO meds for at least 3 days. How dangerous is this to my unborn child? How bad is the withdrawal gonna be, how long will it last & what withdrawal symptoms should I expect? I'm EXTREMELY scared for the safety of my unborn child as well as myself. I have 2 other kids that I am raising on my own & need to know what to expect. PLEASE HELP !!

Melissa

[vicki595]

Hmmm...I just came across this post after you contacted me privately looking for help and support...  I think I treated you with the respect you deserve and I know I offered my support and reassurance. You contacted me looking for help on Christmas Day and I responded...

Now I see this and I don't like it.  Name calling is not an acceptable form of communication on this forum... last I knew.

[tired_of_oxy]

Ah good old Southlake hospital huh? That place is ridiculous. I lived in Newmarket for awhile and would actually drive to York Central in Richmond Hill even though Southlake was just a 5 minute drive from me. Those morons sent my 3 month old baby home when I insisted there was something terribly wrong. I ended up taking him to York Central and the doc immediately admitted him and diagnosed him with RSV which is a dangerous respiratory infection that can be fatal in infants--yet Southlake sent him home!!!!

If you run into this again email me and ill drive you to York Central myself, not kidding. I hope babes ends up being ok after all this. Im just sickened at the thought of them letting your baby suffer like that. That's unreal! Really praying your little man is ok. No baby or child should suffer and a poor little baby who isn't even born yet that has had to suffer so much just breaks my heart. Hopefully your baby is going to be closely monitored and it would be great if your on ODSP they might pay someone to come in and help you  at home. Or ask your doctor about the VON's (Victorian Order Nurses) who come in and do home care and it's covered by OHIP. I am astonished at the lack of concern these docs have had for your baby but with our ******, overloaded and understaffed healthcare system it doesn't surprise me. We might get "free" healthcare but that doesn't mean it's "good" healthcare. Your baby is in my prayers and I hope he's going to be ok. I thank God I never got mixed up with oxy until after my youngest was born. Like you I was diagnosed with similar back issues but the kids were already born and I don't plan on having anymore. Definitely not while I'm struggling to get off these meds. Hope you can maybe get a better OB. Dr. Newton was my 1st OB and although a busy guy and had to wait forever to see him he was the best in his field. Unfortunately he retired but Dr. Walsh my second OB was pretty good too. Maybe try switching OBs to one who won't let you go through hell like this over a mistake she made. This whole things just crazy and so scary for your baby!

[dominosarah]

You dont want to mess with that.  Do you have any family close by?  This little boy is giving you a run for your money isnt he!!

[Melissa_1982]

TY sara

I hope you have a great holiday as well.  Had YET another scare today & now being threatened with in hospital bedrest if I can't find someone to help me in the home.  Just when I thought things were settling down it all goes to hell.  Now the OB is worried about pre-eclampsia.  

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERONE & GOOD LUCK STAYING STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HOLIDAYS :-)

[dominosarah]

I am really happy to hear you and baby are feeling better.  I hope you have a great holiday season with your girls~~~~~~~sara

[Melissa_1982]

I'm feeling fine....adjusting to the higher dose of Fentanyl & trying to get everything ready for my little man & Christmas with my girls.  Baby does move around lot.  Yes I'm past 24 weeks now... technically 24+4 so he's viable now.  Still looking for a new family dr as well as looking into delivering at a different hospital too.

Lil man seems to be doing well & my girls are getting even more excited.

[ImDONENoMore]

I understand there are good doctors out there and bad doctors out there.  I only suggested you find what you consider to be a good doctor and deal with them on helping you get out of this mess.  My hope is that you do find someone who can help you and your unborn child.

I only hope for the best outcome for your child.  I'll be praying for you both.

[dominosarah]

Deep breath Melissa~~~How are you feeling now?  Baby still moving around alot?  You are past 24 weeks now to arent you?

[Melissa_1982]

I know you both ASSUME you know what's going on, HOWEVER please do not assume that I have made this decision to continue the fentanyl through the rest of my pregnancy without researching it.  This is NOT something I wanted, but sad to say life is full of crap we don't want.  As for the comments about "addiction" you throw that term around too loosely & quickly.  YES there may be a dependence on it as it happens with ANY medication that is taken for any length of time, but it is FAR from addiction.  If I weren't pregnant then I would've suffered through the withdrawals to come off the horrible crap, but after speaking with SEVERAL doctors & doing my own research it is A THOUSAND TIMES SAFER FOR THE BABY TO COME OFF THE FENTANYL POST BIRTH THEN TO CHANCE MISCARRIAGE, STILLBIRTH & DEATH OF MOM & BABY DUE TO WITHDRAWALS.

I have tried numerous times to get in to see a pain management specialist but require a referral from my family dr who frankly doesn't deserve to have her medical license.  Odd these addiction comments come after me posting about looking for a doctor to sign the MMAR papers.  Why is that? You are entitled to your opinions but after YEARS of research medical marihuana is PROVEN safer then the medications the drs prescribe which destroy your livers, stomachs, intestines & cause such havoc every day.

You both make it seem as though my ONLY thought was the fentanyl.  Re-think that one as the title of the topic is : pregnant, on fentanyl & terrified !  I AM worried about the effects that the sudden decrease could have had on my child, worried about his safety , but also have to worry how I could deal.  

PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD THE DECISION WAS TO CONTINUE THE PREGNANCY WHILE ON THE MEDS, TO CONTINUE USING THE MEDS OR EVEN THE REASON I'M ON IT IN THE 1ST PLACE CUZ UNTIL YOU'VE LIVED ONE DAY WITH THE EXTREME PAIN CAUSED BY A CONDITION IN MY BACK ASSUMING WILL JUST MAKE AN *** OUT OF U & ME... MORE YOU THOUGH !

I didn't join this forum for this crap !! TY to those of you who can see the sensitive nature of it & were supporting.

[vicki595]

Melissa~ You appear to be in denial with respect to your addiction. I hope you get the help you desperately need!

[ImDONENoMore]

Melissa I have been reading your posts for some time now.  I am very concerned about you, I'm not sure you're really seeing things clearly right now with all that you are going through and because of the extremely strong narcotic you are taking.  There must be some professional, perhaps an addictionologist, that can help you.  Please make those calls and find someone.

You keep talking about how you're doing all you can to feel better, but I am so concerned for your unborn child.  Please don't take this the wrong way because I know you're in pain.  But to continually allow this damage to your baby so you don't have to suffer, I just don't understand.

I hope you find someone soon, someone you can connect with, who can help you through all of this.  You should not be doing this alone.

My prayers are with your unborn child and with you.  Honestly, I am quite frightened for you both.

[Melissa_1982]

UPDATE !!!!!

I just got back from FINALLY seeing my family doctor after yet another trip into the hospital in pure agony & utter hell.  I explained the issues I've had with staff at L&D, explained what each nurse & doctor had said & suggested, told her what was done & wasn't done & finally told her what I expect before leaving her office.  I was beyond mad at this point after being neglected again all night by the Labor & Delivery ward.  I told her I was not leaving until my Fentanyl was bumped back up to 100mcg as it was before SHE decided to start cutting it back.  I told her that something HAS TO be prescribed for breakthrough pain as suggested by the dr in the ER on Saturday when I went in & I'd appreciate that she actually look into the Medical Marihuana forms that I have brought to her several times.  She did bump the Fentanyl back up to 100mcg, refused anything for breakthrough pain though & refuses to even consider the MMAR forms.  Apparently IF I have any pain while on the higher dose I should put my feet up, try to relax & grin & bear it...... like I haven't tried it over & over & over again.  She explained that the baby will have issues after birth because of the Fentanyl, but I already expect this anyway.  I went through it while pregnant with my 2nd daughter & have prepared myself for this time.  

Now fingers crossed that the higher dose starts working quickly & there isn't too much pain after.  I can't believe that it took almost 2 weeks of neglect & can't believe how poorly the different doctors & nurses treated the situation.  God help ALL of them if ANYTHING happens to my little man due to their neglectful behavior.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THE SUPPORT, MESSAGES, THOUGHTS & KIND WORDS.  IF IT WASN'T FOR ALL OF YOU I'M SURE I WOULDA SNAPPED.  I KNOW COMING OFF THE FENTANYL WILL BE A VERY LONG & PAINFUL BATTLE, BUT FOR NOW I'LL CONTINUE AS IT'S NEEDED. I PLAN ON FIGHTING IT OFF A YEAR OR 2 AFTER MY LITTLE ONE IS BORN. THIS WAY I HAVE SOME TIME WITH HIM & HAVE TIME TO FIND NOT ONL A NEW FAMILY DOCTOR, BUT ALSO A DOCTOR IN MY AREA THAT WILL SIGN THE MMAR FORMS.  YES IT COMES WITH IT'S OWN RISKS BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS DANGEROUS AS THE MEDS THAT THESE DOCTORS SO EASILY PRESCRIBE.

TY AGAIN EVERYONE :-) & I'll be sure to keep everyone updated.  I've sent friend requests to you all as you've helped in ways that no one I truly know would even have attempted & I am FOREVER grateful.  Now I may just start printing out all the info I found & have been given by you all & take it to these very ill informed doctors so that they have some clue as to what they have done to my unborn child for the last 2 weeks & they can see for themselves just how clueless they really are !!! lol

Melissa

[SHELLBELL79]

OK Melissa, I do not understand what the heck is going on! This would never happen in America! I detoxed cold turkey off 150mcg of Fentanyl and was in the ER because of it and was treated great and they don't usually treat detox patients in the ER good at all! Your freaking pregnant and on the strongest pain medication in the world! This is soo harmful for your baby! I really don't see how all these doctors are refusing to help you! Have you ever seen a newborn detox off a narcotic? It is so painful for them and dangerous even when they give them small amounts of Morphine to wean down. Fentanyl is no joke! I was told by my old uriologist that this patch would help me take less Vicoden. I had no idea what it was ti'll I decided to detox off it. Then I found out what it's like to want to die and beg God to just take you! I have detoxed off Vicodin HP, Norco 10's, etc....those were a freaking walk in the park compared to Fentanyl. I feel your pain....this why I don't understand why Any health professional would jeapordize you and your babys life. You need to contact someone that can really help you! If you are not helped and taken care of, who is going to be there and take care of your children? Please demand help and tell these doctors and nurses to educate themselves on the damn drug and how serious it is!!!! You and your children are in my prayers!!!!

[Melissa_1982]

Mike,

TY for the msg. I'm north of Toronto & have been dealing with the hospital in Newmarket.  I did not chose to have a baby on these meds, I was on birth control & took it religiously at the same time every day, but my original OB found that I'm infertile UNLESS I'm on some sort of birth control.  All 5 of my kids ( twins born @ 24 weeks deceased ) were conceived on some sort of birth control, whether it was different strengths of the pill, the patch, & the depo shot.  Years of no birth control & no pregnancies, but cervical cancer & massive cysts that took away my fertility until birth control was started.  I know that my child may be born with withdrawals & need to be watched in the NICU for a week or 2.  I also know it's safer for him to go through those withdrawals after being born then it is to go through now.  Continuing the pregnancy while on these meds was not an easy choice, but due to health issues including having suffered cervical cancer & cysts that have destroyed 1 ovary & damaged the other I was told by my original OB that if I wanted any more kids they highly suggest doing it soon.

Coming off this Fentanyl is the most painful thing I've ever had to suffer through.  Yes I'm still on the meds, but the large drop hit VERY hard.  If I wasn't pregnant I would fight it out & cut it out entirely, but right now is not the time to do it & definitely isn't safe.

After having my oldest daughter it was discovered that I have severe lower lumbar spinal stenosis, something I was probably born with & parents ignored the pain complaints I made.  Originally I was started on T3s, then went to perks, oxys & then Hydro-morphones. I had L5-S1 decompression done in 2006 which did nothing to help.  There have been 2 surgeries booked since, but got pregnant both times & surgery was cancelled. It's progressing through my entire back & apparently I may be wheelchair bond within 5 years unless it slows down.  I was on the different meds for a few years & then met my husband.  I found out AFTER marrying him that he had an addiction to pain pills & he was stealing my meds every chance he got.  My family dr saw how much pain I was in, but couldn't prescribe the pills without worrying whether I was getting them or not so she decided Fentanyl would be the next option.  I asked if there was anything I should know about & she explained it was the same as the pills but taken less often basically. I trusted her.  Fentanyl IS NOT just for terminal patients, it's often prescribed for people who have tried numerous other pain meds & haven't received adequate relief from them.

I'm 24 weeks as of tomorrow according to the dr's dates BUT based on my dates I'm almost 27 weeks. I've argued that point with my OB, the hospital & my GP & have been told it's impossible.  I didn't know sperm could live 2 1/2 weeks inside. lol. Dr's are so insured.  I have asked to be referred to a pain specialist & now have to wait until the baby is born & then the referral MAY be put through.  

I have spoken to Women's College Hospital in Toronto & have been instructed to follow up with my family Dr & OB & if I am still not satisfied then to come in & be seen. Easier said then done since I don't drive, have 2 kids I'd have to take with me & it would be roughly 3 hours by bus each way.

Good luck with your weaning. :-)

Melissa

[faith_hope_love]

Hey Melissa, I can't believe that nurse said that you can't have withdrawals from Fentanyl...what an idiot!  This seems like the twilight zone.  I am still praying for you and your baby.   The post from Mikeyjr that lives up there too seems to have some good ideas.  Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.  Lyn

[Melissa_1982]

According to the ignorant useless nurse I saw the last 2 trips to L & D it is up to the dr on call if, when & how they treat a patient.  The fact that she had already told me she would do nothing for my pain & I ended up back several hours later seemed suspicious.  I tried to explain that I had asked to be taken to the ER not L&D but because I am over 20 weeks regardless if it's pregnancy related or not I end up on L&D, which makes no sense as when I left & went down to the ER they had NO plans on sending me back upstairs cuz it had nothing to do with the baby. Also according to this so called nurse you can't get withdrawals from Fentanyl & even if it was possible it would not affect the baby what so ever.  I lost it on her explaining that since I got pregnant I've made sure to do my research on the risks of the meds & what would happen to my child. Went as far as to speak to the head of paeds at that hospital who also runs part of sick kids paeds dealing with babies born to addicts.  He also happens to be my oldest daughters paeditrician.
I don't understand how this OB who is fairly new DID NOT learn any of this in school.  Why the hell should I have to teach her by risking my childs life?  This dr & I had issues when I was pregnant with my 2nd daughter & her refusal to treat then almost ended up killing both my daughter & I. I had been rushed in several times leaking fluids & bleeding heavily. EVERYTIME she was on call she would watch me for 10 hours or so & then send me home.  TWICE there was a c-section booked by another dr , but she came on at shift change. The original dr planned on staying to do the c-section to make sure that my daughter would make it & this b!tch would cancel it saying it wasn't warranted. I lost almost 70lbs with that pregnancy & bled from 17 weeks until 39 when a hospital in Toronto finally stepped in & ordered that they cease the pregnancy.

[mikeyjr]

OMG  
>>>> Melissa<<<<
The one thing that sticks with me that I have read hear is "you need to take care of you". And my spin on that is (!!!!!!!x10) you need to take care of you!!!!!

Where in Ontario are you?

What hospital did you go to? I would insist on different treatment, a different hospital, Air Flight to Sick Kids! You have a child that needs treatment like your local hospital can not give! Your baby is #1. Sorry but your decision to have a baby while on these meds was.... wow! What can I say... had to be hard, but also "crazy!!!” I bet your OB didn't like the idea. Don’t get me wrong.... I feel for you and wish you the best.

I too am going through withdrawal now (“doctor’s oversight”). I'm in day 4 coming off Oxycotin (320mg/day) CT. Another Ontario doctor! I couldn't imagine coming off Fentanyl. And tomorrow I will see the doctor for more. I will be dropping my dosage down to 80-120mg/day and then weaning from there.

Anyway......

From everything I have read on opiate drugs you should only receive a 10% reduction at a time. 10% not 50% or 100%; and that comes from the manufactures (Pharmaceutical companies not wanting to take the responsibility just ask your pharmacist. Also, look on the Pharmaceutical Company’s website, specifically info about your medication). So, who should take that responsibility? Your doctor. There is some very strict legislation coming into effect here in Ontario that is going to make it very difficult for doctors to just prescribe whatever they want. I only hope it also includes rules of practice on taking patients off these medications too, but I doubt it will.

Why in the world did your doctor think you needed something that strong? That drug is for terminal patients, people on the downward slope... from what I have read you’re not that person... unless you’re holding something back. What was the diagnosis? I mean.... wow! What was this doctor thinking???

Seriously... if you’re not in TO.... you should scream bloody murder till they send you to Sick Kids. Period! It is your baby.... Lie.... Lie you’re a** off, tell them your 26 weeks. Insist its 26 weeks. Bring a calendar and count backwards and say that’s when it happened and don't you let anyone else say differently. Tell them it has to be because that’s the date you had sex and conceived because you didn't any other time and anything else must be wrong including your OB. We are in a province that will not let a baby die because a stupid doctor thinks its ok. Many will standup with you but you have to start the process. I would even threaten to call CTV (this can be very powerful), but then call if you have too. Insist and DO NOT take NO for an answer, do what ever it takes to get the treatment you seek.
  
A good pain specialist can determine what malpractice is and what’s not. But any human can tell you if you loose that baby while in professional care because of refusal to treat, its MALPRACTICE. Stand up for yourself, even if it hurts. Stand up for your baby!

I have written all this with sincere compassion for you and your affliction. It’s an affliction that many have shared and suffered.

I HOPE that in someway this inspires you.

Even if your doctor "fixes it" to your satisfaction, please go see a pain specialist.

I wish you the best,
Mike

PS
I have found listening to my favorite music as loud as possible helps, even if it’s just with headphones on. Keeping hydrated is very important and if you can not eat - take vitamins, by the handfuls. By-the-way your Baby still needs food. Don’t lose sight of your goal!

And remember - others do care.

[dominosarah]

If you were here in the States you would be in the hospital as the baby is their first concern.  I just cant wrap myself around all of this.  Why the lack of concern on everyone's part?  This baby has got to be suffering greatly here.  You are in wd's, vomiting, not able to eat, having contractions and they wont do anything?

[Melissa_1982]

TY for your concern. The hospital is proving to be useless.  As for my ex he is exactly that... an ***.  It's a VERY long story, but he's the biggest reason I'm on Fentanyl to start with & I curse him every day for it.  It's my own stupidity too for not spending more time researching it, but was given the prescription by my dr 3 yrs ago after I had no other meds & wasn't given an option as an alternate, so it was fentanyl or nothing.  The pain has been bad for years so obviously with a child at home I took what was supposed to help, trusting that my dr would be honest & not knowingly put me at risk. After this baby is born & I've had some time with him I'm gonna look into an in-patient detox option to get me off the Fentanyl for good, but will need something for the pain. This is something I have to suffer with for life, but I refuse to be at the hands of fentanyl for life.

[Melissa_1982]

They monitor the babys heart beat for a minute & then check it randomly while I'm there. The 1st trip I made in his heart rate was checked for 5-10 minutes at least once an hour. The 2nd trip it was monitored for 30-60 seconds once every 2 hours. The 3rd trip it was checked for 30 seconds ONCE & then not checked again.  I have been between 1 1/2 & 3 cms since my 1st trip in, not effacing, vomitting heavily but not bleeding so they assume nothing is wrong.  They have the contractions charted from last weekend at 2 minutes apart for 8 hours before they unhooked me to let me up to walk to see if that would speed it up or stop it.  The 2nd trip contractions were every 5 minutes & charted. #rd trip they didnt even bother trying to monitor them, at this point the nurse was determined I was a drug addict seeking some narcotic & would do ANYTHING to get it.  I have spent the last few hours digging through my records from the hospital when I had both my girls to find the proof for them that BOTH my daughters were like this & yes I'm not effacing, but neither 1 of my girls did either even after my waters broke 5-24 hours before.  My oldest woulda stayed inside forever if they hadn't started pumping me full of Pitocin 28 hours after my water broke. I'm not urging them to intervene & get him out now, but simply trying to show them that my body stops after half the work.  My 2nd daughter started these threats around the same time & if it weren't for doing my research, filing complaints & making countless calls to Women's College Hospital in Toronto, then I would have her on my livingroom floor.

After the dr refused to even see me after my return trip Saturday I warned the nurse to let the Dr know that her refusal to treat is illegal & not only would I be filing a report with the hospital, but would be contacting a lawyer as well. I was told by this nurse that withdrawals don't happen from Fentanyl, & anyone who claims otherwise is an addict or delusional.  YET I have had contact with the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health who mailed out a book on methadone maintenance treatment in case it's something I want to consider. On page 1 alone it states : "Methadone prevents opiod withdrawal, which can threaten the life of your baby" . Hmmmmmmm wonder how that's delusional?

I'm hoping to find a safe way into the dr's tomorrow, this weather is nuts.

[faith_hope_love]

I just don't get how that OB nurse and that hospital in general cannot be more concerned.  I don't know much about pregnancy and pain meds. but it seems like the drs. would worry for you to keep going in withdrawals and especially being that it is Fentanyl of all things and what possible distress it might be putting the baby in and you too for that matter.  That's sounds unethical, callous, coldhearted and insane.  We are all total strangers here and seem to be more concerned than them, unbelievable!
Your ex sounds like total *ss too..sorry.  Doesn't he care that if something happened, you have the kids there too..what if you can't call for help?  I will keep you in my prayers. Lyn

[vicki595]

There's something about all of this...that makes me pause and think...

[dominosarah]

Let us know what the doctor says tomorrow.  The baby still has a strong heartbeat?

Have you applied for any govn't assisted programs?

[Addeycakes]

They can't just treat you that way if there are infact risks as heavy as you say.  When they monitored your contractions and vitals everything they charted was under control? Are you ephased? Dilated? Bleeding? Vomitting?  With so many trips to the ER your OB should find it in his/her moral compass to see you and figure out what is the best plan of action here.  I hope you have insurance!!! :/