Prescription Addicted Medications

[LueAnn]

Does anyone have any information that would help the withdrawal sypmtons of Vicodin, Klonopin and other meds.  The doctor put me on these meds for chronic daily headaches,now they want to detox.  But every time they do, the pain is horrendous.  I have to go to see my neurologist on 4/1/03 for detox once again.  I do not know how much more I can take.  She has several meds to help to in the detox treatment, but that does not help when you are going through this pain and trying to live a normal life.  I would appreciate any help from anyone.   I am very desperate and depressed.

[Thomas03]

When you say pain, do you mean headache pain or withdrawal-related pain?

When you say your neurologist is going to put you through detox, do you mean a gradual tapering of your meds or cold turkey?

One thought, if you are habituated to both Vics (an opiate) and Klonopin (a benzodiazepine), I don't care what "detox' meds they give you, you shouldn't be forced to detox from both meds at the same time. That is more than anyone should have to bear.

The current wisdom says to first detox from the opiate. Then, after a period of stability, SLOWLY detox from the benzo over several months. Klonopin withdrawal will last many times longer than Vicodin withdrawal.

Here's the best site on the 'net for information, guidance and personal contacts for benzo addiction (Valium, Klonopin, Librium, Xanax, Ativan, Serax, etc.):

www.benzo.uk.org

go to this site and access the papers written by Dr. Heather Ashton, a leading authority on benzo withdrawal.

Based on Dr. Ashton's papers, I think your doc should switch you to Valium first, then slowly taper the Valium. While Klonopin lasts a comparatively long time in the body, Valium can last up to several times longer, meaning as you're tapering, Valium leaves your system more gradually, giving your brain a better chance to adjust.

Valium saved my ass after I developed a Xanax addiction. I wound up printing Dr. Ashton's material with the pertinent sections highlighted and taking it to my doctor. Luckily, my doc was (is) a bright but modest man open to suggestions from his patients. Many MD's, especially specialists, seem to have monumental egos and don't consider what their patients say. Stand up for your rights as a patient. Demand competent, compassionate treatment. You haven't done anything wrong and shouldn't be made to suffer needlessly. Becoming addicted to your meds is not a crime.

Thomas

[dancinginthedark]

I'm sorry to hijack this post but our Fiorinal thread is full, I'm in w/d hell & need to write my friend!

Kat!

Your msg made my day & you were my inspiration when I  decided to go for it.  You've always said you weren't a taper kind of gal ;-) & I could totally relate.  No matter how hard I try it's hopeless.  I tapered with valium & other drugs & it was a pc, of cake but F!  Kat, this stuff scares the hell out of me.  While I've been addicted to other drugs, once what I was taking them for was gone, I could just withdraw, go off & never think about them again.

I've even had dreams about F!  HOW SICK IS THAT????

I'm just too exhausted from this drug.  As I've been tapering further down, my meds only last 2-3 days max.  I often don't have them when I need them for h/a which means to me the whole sit'n is totally out of control.  I'm so tired of waiting for refills, trying to manipulate more (I'm ashamed at how good I am) almost planning my work, social life for when I have it...
Kat, I'm just a sick puppy! JR, Golden & you are so responsible & I'm taking them for all the wrong reasons.  And of course I need more all the time to deal with my h/a.  I remember when one would relieve them & now if a doozie is coming on (you know how you just know those & if you don't drown it in F ASAP, you're toast?) I might need 3 to get the same effect.  Tolerance. And I'm not "stoned" on 3.  Actually, just fine & very functional.

This last wk. I had 35 from Sun.to Wed. & she'd advanced me some early because my p/up day is Tues.  Thur. she gave me 10 as I assured her I'd take 2 a day to prevent seizures.  I meant it too.  I got home, took 2 & went to my desk & I was trying to write & all I could think of was that F...like a siren song.  Next thing I had 1 more & by 7 they were all gone.  I seem to have lost the capacity to think of tomorrow.

I'm not doing too bad today.  You get SO sick & I don't.  I was very nauseous yesterday/last nt. but I was hungry by midnite & had some popcorn!  I'm disoriented & my head is hurting - about a 7.  I'm just taking excedin.  I could get OTC codeine  but don't want to go down that road again.  It took 6 wks. to get over those rebound h/a's!  I think I'm going to just write here this  wknd & maybe watch TV.  My sis gave me the movie, "Bridget Jones" & ppl have always said I'd love it so I may watch that later.

Kat, we need to do a si com!  This life is madness, isn't it?  Do you know what I mean by being exhausted?  I realized how much of my grey matter was expended on thinking about F, thinking about getting F, thinking about quitting F...I'm talking all consuming.  No wonder I haven't written a book.  I hardly have time to think about men because F has been so foremost in my thoughts.

SICK!

I was confused by your last paagr. in your msg.  Did you say you quit again & whatever for?  Or, you meant when you quit c/t?

Write me hun.  Day 2 & I am going to hang in there, 1 day at a time.

Luv,
Joods

[Kat49]

Judy - I feel so bad for you and have been thinking about you all day! Of course, you don't understand the post below because I just reread it and it DOES sound like I quit again. I was referring when I last went CT approx. 5 wks. ago tomorrow. I have been able to live with them responsibly, but it takes every molecule in my body to not to abuse them. In fact, just Thursday I DID abuse them - took 6 throughout a 12 hr. period because it was a baaaaaadddd day at the office with a major pain in the ass co-worker.

You said you're so sick - but you're not vomiting, so what do you mean? What symptoms are you having? Maybe your neurontin is really keeping you from going over the edge! Are you feeling anxiety, shaking, trembling, etc? How about dizziness and lightheaded and stumbling all over the place? You stomach will feel like it's going to bring up lunch and you'll have sweats, too. But, that's really sporadic and will go away. It's the headache! UN - F -INGBELIEVABLE!!  Excedrin does help take the edge off. See if you can get some valium, too.  

Will talk later and post on the other one too. I hate to hijack this thread - I know ours is full.  Take it easy and take a nice hot bath with Epsom salts (your idea) and chill out! Luv ya, babe,    Kat

[rodewc]

Judy, Wuldntya know it.. get a good F thread goin' and the frickin' thing is closed, maxxed comments. Grrrrr. Just like my body/mind.. Maxxed. I am "coming off" a variety of drugs: Vikes, Fs, and maybe Xanax.

DOC (drug/choice for me) are narcotics, and I am not sure Fs count there. Do they? Are they narcs? I definetely prefer the Fs w/ codeine. Mine are F w/ codeine. I have had a fairly limitless supply for many years. By limitless, I s'pose I mean, when I ask for a refill, I get one.

However, after the haze of a few thou Vikes, a swig of Tequila and a cupla Xanax, then that take that MO-FO migraine headache away ASAP, and thus I seldom use the Fs.

That aside, and tho u, Joods, must feel like **** (as I), cuz if I recall, u r CTWD longer than I (mine will be 48 hrs at 4 AM, (a mere 12 hrs frm. now), so I appreciate yr concern for my (abnormal, I hope) paranoia about the DEA.

My dilemma/concern is this. I use maybe 3 docs for the same 3 meds: VikesES, Fs w/ codeine, Xanax .5.

I use 2 pharmacies. One has my insurance info, the one where I got my major haul ( 60 Fs, 90 Vikes ES, 90 Xanax .5/ all monthly)

And, at the other Mom & Pop pharmacy, I paid ca$h ( 30 Fs, 60 VikesES, 60 Xanax .5/ all  monthly too)

Meanwhile, I periodically scored a few Vikes or sedatives for various broken limbs, teeth probs (Man, those narcs literally SCREW teeth,, talk about Gum Surgery.. OMG,, major moooola!). And the I have gotten random dope for foot problems.. yada yada.. Where I always used the Mom/Pop ca$h pharmacy for the 'x-tras)

So, my point/worry is this.. tho I am trying very fricking hard to stay on the dayum wagon, I have discovered a healthy supply of Vikes, Xanax, and Fiorinal in the mansion here (make that a hovel)

Regardless, I am afraid that if the runs (err, diarrhea, pain, hassle, avoidance of peeps/places/things.. gets too high.. I will be right back to the pharmacy/doc playing game.)

It sux.

Period.

So now, on top of trying to quit, I have nitemares of the DEA coming after me Biggy Time!

Seriously.

It matters not that I am seriously trying to quit, the paranoia will NOT dissipate.

That aside, I made the acquaintance of, for lack of a better word, shall I call him an Internet Stalker, who at regular intervals has mailed me (here in the US) quite a few "cocadamol" (sp).. legal in the UK.. but fulla codeine.. Similar to the codeine to which u say is legal in Canada, Judy.

So, what I am saying here, or trying to.. in my ENTJ state (see Meyer's Brigg's Personality test.. do a search online) is that I'm frickin flipping out!

One pharmacy (the main haul) has a picture ID, as required, with a DL# Pic ID.. and insurance info.

The OTHER (Mom & Pop pharmacy, the LESS THAN main haul pharmacy, has a "Picture ID# (NOT A DL), but NO insurance info. (also no "official pic ID".. just a pic of me and where I work)

So, in a nutshell, am I safe? Am I gonna be busted? Does the DEA want to bust a skinny old drug addict as I, especially one trying to clean up her act?

I said today that even a dinner w/ wine couldnt take my mind off this miserable CTWD weekend Detox, but word has it there is an oyster roast to benefit the shrimpers, so here on a barrier island, I must do what I can to help the economy and slob up several thosand mollusk shellfish, like any good sLowCountry Southerner.

That aside, I thank you Judy, and know that you r a vvvvv special person, indeed, to care about my concerns when you must be feeling like the utter piece of **** as I do.

Regards for a better weekend ahead. We can do this?????

Love,(and I don't use tht word litely).

Rode WC ~

e-mail at ***@**** if anyone can liten my load, esp the paranoia load.

Happy weekend all.. The puppy and cats remain my joys.~~

Sorry for the jumpiness of this post.. MUST be the dang (FORMER??) drugs,, If anyone can follow this, I NEEEED YOU!

[Kat49]

Hey rodewc! My name is Kat and a friend of Judy's - and fellow fiorinal addict. Can't post too long because I have to run, but about the DEA: here's how it works. If you obtain ANY narcotic from ANY pharmacy, there is a form they give to DEA on a regular basis - maybe monthly. It doesn't matter if you use your insurance or not. If you doctorshop (like I've done) and/or pharmacyshop (ditto), that is a crime and you can get arrested right there in the pharmacy as you're picking up your meds. I thought that by using mom & pop places and saying I had no insurance I was safe. NOT!!!!!  They still have to abide by the drug rules, too and submit the info to the proper channels. Now, I'm sure as with any other business, there are some that don't report or are very lax. I think the big pharmacy franchises do comply quite well. There was girl I used to work with addicted to vics and oxycontin who doc shopped and even went out of state and after 7 yrs. got caught! With computers they found out everywhere she went and it was a mess. Since she had ligitimate pain (for tylenol or advil) she was given 5 yrs. probation.  If a pharmacist suspects anything, they can create all kinds of trouble, too.  By the way fiorinal (our drug of choice) without codeine is a controlled substance, but NOT a narcotic. Nevertheless, it's a Schedule 3 I think - yea, I'm pretty sure. Hope you don't get arrested and get through your CT safely. I think if anyone up above is watching HE should give you some credit for trying to quit and going CT and not get you busted. I also know for a fact that the DEA is so horrendously busy, they probably don't even know who the hell you are anyway!!!!  Kat

[Kat49]

Oh and when I said pharmacyshop, I meant going to different pharmacies with scripts from different doctors.That's how one of my co-workers was busted. Four different doctors prescribing Oxycontin and going to 4 different pharmacies.

[straightjacket]

you should write back , im shure someone will help you. best of luck.

[Jerri2]

How you doing my friend?Havent heard from you in ages!!You eat any good twinkies lately??Or seen any holes in the yard?Just wondering how your doing buddy!Your friend till the end!!Jerri

[rodewc]

Thx, Kat, tho I can't say I am any less paranoid.

I have been doing this 2 pharmacy thing for several yrs now and can't imagine why they would bust me now.. but still there is that niggly feeling, and being somewhat prescient hardly helps.

You are sweet to take the time to address my concern tho; thx.

I have woken to rain and the puppy chasing the cats to East Hell and Back. Looks like the 25 pound cats, all 5 of them, could take up for themselves, but seemingly the 12 week old puppy is gonna rule the hovel, err roost.

God help me when I have grandkids; I can't say no to this puppy.

Managed to stay on the wagon, even while slurping oysters.. a Vike, Xanax or, F would have slid down the throat w/ an oyster like white on rice. But the sunset over the Int.Coastal Waterway reminded me that natural beauty is its own high. (or so I told myself:)

Hope you are seeing the lite of day, Judy; and thx again Kat.

We have dark, cool rain after a sunny week of 80 degrees. It helps me rationalize the "flu" in bed. Monday will be the real killer.

Best to all ya~

[Kat49]

Hey rodewc! Don't be paranoid, my friend! I would bet my last fiorinal that you won't get caught. I did the doc/pharmacy shopping thing for 10 yrs. and never did. But, a pharmacist called one of the doctors I had been "using" and said he thought I was "fiorinal dependent" and was he "absolutely sure" I should be taking these as much as I was. What a f---- jackass! At the time, it was (are you sitting?) 30 pills w/1 refill and I came in for the refill after 7 days!!!! I was SOOOOOO paranoid that I took the bag and raced home almost smashing into someone and guess what I did when I got home? Watched out the window for the cops to arrive while sweating bullets PLUS (and this is a riot) I went out to my pool to sit and soak up some rays on a raft and a freakin helicopter kept going real slow over my property and had POLICE on its bottom!! I ran into the house and threw up!!!! I thought "Oh my God they're coming for me!" And I really convinced myself of this! I figured this pain-in-the-ass pharmacist called around and found me out and I already had myself thinking how I'd fare in jail not being able to get my highlights and nails done! Oh what a mess!  So, hope your day goes better. It's snowing here in the Philly area after being in the 60's yesterday. You must live in Florida to have 80's?  Anyway, good luck to you.  Kat

[rodewc]

Hee Hee.. Now, that IS paranoia.. Had to laff tween runs to the bathroom .. to be punny

Nah, I dont live in FL, but on a barrier island, resort, off Southern US coast..

Wish I culd say I was rich, retired and livin in luxury, but I am an old fart who lucked into nice weather, golf and *******, err beaches~

[FiorinalJR]

Hi there.  I too am a Fiorinal/cet addict.  Been taking it for about 25 years.  I have quit c/t, tapered without help, been thru detox (no good for me) and you name it.

I hate to bust your bubble, but even though you only go to two pharmacies, and have been doing it for a long time, you can still get caught.  I did it (in Mass.) for 10 years, very carefully, and thought I was fine.  Then one day I went in to pick up a refill, got the pills and paid for them, then before I knew it, two plain clithes detectives came up behind me, handcuffed me, and escorted me out of the pharmacy into their unmarked cruiser.

I was charged, went to court, and luckily only ogt three years probation because it was for personal use and I had no prior record.

But, I lost mu drivers license for 2 years, had to do 28 days in detox, and my whole family, of course, found out.  BE CAREFUL!

JR

[FiorinalJR]

Hi Juudes.  I didn't know you were going to try c/t.  Please, BE CAREFUL!  We're all here or wherever to help.  If you're like me, c/t is NOT the way to go, although it may work for you.  Me, I have found that slow tapering under a good doc's supervision is the way to go - but it's not easy!

Please don't put me up on a pedestal.  I have have my share of problems, even this go 'round (since September).  I have had some really bad MO-FO days and had to call my doc, who luckily within reason, will allow me to take extras when nothing else works.  But, I am down to 6/day (from about 20/day) and I'm having a real hard time at six.  I am dreading going down to 5/day next week!

BTW, Fiorinal is a Class III drug, with or without Codeine.  It is monitored by the DEA.  But, they screwed up with Fioricet and Esgic.  Both plain F/cet and plain Esgic (and the generics) are Class IV drugs, and are not considered "controlled - and are not monitored like Class III's.  Don't ask me why.

So, if anyone is doctor shopping or using multiple pharmacies, ask for Esgic or Fioricet (plain) and you'll be safer!  I am not encouraging shopping, but for those times when you must, do it this way please.

Juudes, I wish you the best and hope you will be okay.

PLEASE NOTE, I started a new thread at "the other place" called something like "Fiorinal/cet Addiction #2".  I think it's at or near the top of the "Support Section".  Hope to see you there.  Please stay in touch with us there and let us know how you're doing.

Be well!

JR   (FF)

[Kat49]

Hey JR (Freddie) - I want you to clarify something for me: I still use 2 different pharmacies, BUT with 1 doctor only. The trouble is that at one place they may not have the generic in stock or I don't care for capsules, so I go to the other one. How could that be considered a crime? I do it for my husband's blood pressure meds, etc. Are you referring to using 2 different doctors and several pharmacies so one doesn't know about the other? I stopped doctorshopping a loooonnnnggg time ago because of my co-worker who got busted. Let me know.   Kat

[dancinginthedark]

Hey Gang,

Thanks for your concern guys.  I just returned from the pharmacy, having begged for 2 F Plain.  My hands were trembling, head pounding, I was wobbly, disoriented...my god!  Not to be helped by not sleeping a wink last nt.  

I'm disappointed but not surprised.  I have to admit I was worried about coming thru the detox fine only to still have my headaches to deal with.

I just took them & am a tad weak so I'll  write later.  

I didn't even make it 3 full days.  Rather scary physical symptoms, really.  Only slight nausea tho, Kat! Can't do that...This drug is a monster.

I'll write later...have a good day.  Think I'll watch dumb TV.

Love,
Juuds

[rodewc]

Hell's Bells.. backto no sleep ande paranoia ordeal.. I  would take the Xanax to alleviate that, but I am determined to save that for dire straights. JR, u r serious? It is really illegal to use 2 diff pharmacies, w/ lgit scrips while NOT going over the "recommended" daily intake? I am seriously flipping out. Major league.

Here I was,already freaked over the "accidental" helicopter crash today in Iraq killing US Marines,and now I have to worry about being handcuffed? How can that be? I mean, really, I have told no lies, the scripts are (were legit) and w/in a/the legal limit. The only thing I did that (i think?) that was questionable was pay cash at one place 'cause I didnt want my insurance co. givin' me grief.. They (insurance co) already sends me a pamphlet a minute on high blood pressure.

Judy, I am worried about you. Three days is a longgggg dang time. I know. Mine will be 3 days in 10 long hours.

Meanwhile, I opened a Killian's so I can pee w/ the runs.. doubling the pleasure..

but now along w. RLS I will be dreamin (if fortunate enuf to sleep) of copters w/ POLICE painted on their bellies. Thx Kat

Doesnt the DEA have higher profile cases to crack? Or do they prefer to concentrate on skinny ass women losing their teeth?

Dayum~~

[Kat49]

Judy - It is one tough mother to accomplish a fiorinal CT! The most I lasted without any was a little over 2 weeks. The trembling hands, eyes playing tricks, nightmares, etc. are something I refer to as entering the gates of hell! Because fiorinal is a sedative/hypnotic NOT a benzo like valium, ativan, etc., the brain and central nervous system go on a short circuit picnic when you go cold turkey. That's why there is always the risk of seizures as in alcohol detox DT's. Just stay in bed and rest, drink lots of liquids and pamper yourself. I couldn't focus to read for a week the 1st and 2nd time I cold turkey'd. That's because I went off around 8-10/day to 0!! The last 2 times I went from 5/day to 2/day in a week and then cold turkey when I ran out of meds. My eyes were a mess and hands trembled - you should have seen me in the grocery store trying to write a check!!! The girl must have thought I had Parkinson's! Anyway, I hope the headache isn't too painful. Take care, Juudes!  Love ya  Kat

[Thomas03]

a lot of that shakiness goes with benzo WD, too. The last (final, hopefully) half-dozen times I picked up Valium, I had a way-too observant pharmacist who seemed anxious to drop a dime on me. I'd park by the pharmacy and slowly write everything on the check but the amount, just so this a-hole wouldn't see me shaking.

Thomas

[Kat49]

Hi Thomas! Didn't mean to minimize WD from benzos - it's just that I wanted to stress how a sedative/hypnotic WD can be more risky than others. Valium/Xanax/Ativan, etc. are all a real ***** - there's so much medical literature devoted to getting off those!  I'm just worried about my friend, Judy, and hope she understands that her symptoms are frightening, but will pass as she knows what hell I went through. I think tapering is the safest way to get off fiorinal or any barbiturate for that matter! Very difficult as you can surmise by the amount we've all written and stayed in touch. I know you care for Juudes,too. Actually, you've helped more people here than anyone. The GURU of MEdHelp!  Kat

[dancinginthedark]

Hi Hon!

Thank you so much for all your concern - you are such a sweetie.
I managed to beg 2 plain from the pharmacist & it helped immensely.  Within 1/2 hr. my h/a started to dissipate, shakiness, anxiety went away...everything improved.  It's worn off now but I'm OK & hope I can hang on til Tues.  

So, I've had 2 in 72 hrs. & that has been rough!  My hat goes off to you - hell, throw my bra in too! - in detoxing c/t off this s--t.  I know my opiate abuse wasn't as bad as many - tho I really gave it the ol' college try - but going c/t off codeine was like having a bad flu, being disoriented & some up & down, sweats & a 5 wk. long headache.  But nothing I've experienced compares to F, where I had that skin crawling angst where I actually felt scared not so much of seizures, but something else I can't even identify.

I think I'm going to be able to taper properly now, team.  This little exper. scared me shitless.

One month I remember I had to write my rent check 6 times because my shaking hand couldn't even scrawl...my landlord asked me later if I'd been drunk when I wrote it.  I told him yes!  Kat, did you have mental sluggishness and/or confusion?  My brain has taken a hiatus....

I should be OK.  Let's file a class action suit against the manufacturers of F & settle for all of us getting an extended stay at Betty Ford.  We'd have a blast & get CLEAN!

Luv ya.....
Juuds

[Sugarbeens]

Now, what sounds great to me is to have some of those oysters to slurp down!  Man do I love them raw.  You all hang in there and if you aren't in pain and don't need the pain pills, you can be strong and get off of them.  I just know you can.  I want to be off them and don't crave them, but, my pain is so bad I cannot function without them.  I am now trying very  hard to take as required.  Most of the time it works, but , somedays I take more than I should.  I am praying for all of us.  Be happy, get better and save me some of those oysters.  Love to all.
Sugarbeens

[rodewc]

Better hurry for the oysters.. The wive's tale @ them being no good in months w/o Rs is true. Besides, after mid ApRil it's way too hot (usu close to 100 muggy, gnatty degrees) and the mollusks shrivel. They are good 'tho (currently). I am partial to these here, tho the ones in NOLA were nothin to sneer at. Tge Gulf Stream doesn't seem as clean/juicy as these, if that's poss

Judy, yr writing sounds clear which means, we can do this? G/J on the mere two Fs. Nice pharmacist too. I know zactly One pharamcist like that. Course as Thomas says, he wuld prolly be the first to "drop a dime" on me.

The test for me has only begun, w/ the dayum dahlin pupster peeing on my carpet at 4 AM (hey.. 4 AM..made it 3 days), but now I have to try the work thang.

I am almost certain only a dumbass would out a few pills in her pocket "just in case"

Soooo I am gonna try the ole.. Outta site, outta mind.

Right.
:)~~

[Kat49]

Juudes!  You're finally back! Since you went the route you did, I think you'll be able to taper much easier now. Is that feeling you can't explain like an "out of body experience?" I really felt like that!  I think the Betty Ford thing sounds like a slam-dunk idea! But, Liza's in town here for her monthly detox and she could sing us a tune or two - a looney toon!!! She comes here 8 freakin' times a year - you do the math when you figure out how much inbetween time there is when she stays around 3 wks at a clip!!!!  Also, plenty of rock stars (Aerosmith 2 of them) and movie stars coming and going like it's Nordstrom's for God's sake!!!  Talk to you later and hope your head is feeling fine. You may have some really bad achiness today - neck, back - as well as the head. Don't worry.   Kat

[crunch time]

Oh boy.  Day two of getting off percocet and I feel like ****.  I was only taking around six a day (still too much)for about two weeks.  Even with that short term use I am struggling to get through this.  I am so jittery...and my attitute is so negative.  I know I can get through this, but it really sucks.  The thing is that I had a pretty severe injury and the pills helped, but I don't like the dependence.  I would like to be able to use painkillers in the future, because I can't imagine dealing with such pain without some help.  But I definitely want to use them only on an as needed basis.  Am I addicted or is this common with short term usage?  I have read many posts on here and do not feel desperate without the pills, just physically lousy.  Thanks

[Thomas03]

If you were using the percs basically round the clock for two weeks and stopped, it's not unusual to feel achy and out of sorts. It will pass. Just remember that this is just ****. Get strung out on those beauties and it will be ****.

Thomas

[bsills]

I think I can help you withdraw from Vics relatively painlessly.

[VicoWithdrawing]

If you can truly do what you say about helping then by all means come forth with the information.

[MethMan]

Oh, bless you savior!
Please do!  Please swoop us all up in your magic spaceship to Rygel 4!  Can you cure nausea too? Cause I'm getting bsILL to my stomach reading this garbage.

[MethMan]

Oh, bless you savior!
Please do!  Please swoop us all up in your magic spaceship to Rygel 4!  Can you cure nausea too? Cause I'm getting bsILL to my stomach reading this garbage.

[peaz]

I'm confused...what is d It?  Is that  a medical term?
  I certainly doubt it.  Last I knew medical professionals had  honed basic grammar and spelling skills as well as their medical knowledge.    Since you don't display ANY of those characteristics:  A plural noun, "aspects", needs a plural verb, ARE.... and that would be" throes" (plural again), not "throw", I doubt the validity of anything you say.   But, come to think of it, you haven't really SAID anything YET, have you???   LOL    Nice try, though.

[bsills]

Look at my other posts. It's all the same basic approach. Oh, d  It deals with the physical detox, not the psychological aspects, except to the extent that the psycholgical aspects is so much harder when you are in the throw of acute and/or extended withdrawals.

[bmac]

You are so right, a bunch of one liners like a comic. Sorry Methman no insults meant.
This idiot that calls themselves BSills is full of it. Sounds alot like our residentbutterflygirl doesn't it.
Hey BSills      G O  A W A Y   ........................
You keep saying you can help people but offer no help. Wutup with that idiot? You open your mouth and BS comes out.
Everyone is laughing at you and you are making an ass out of yourself here. So please  g o   a w a y ...........

[peaz]

   Bill, Bill, Bill------People who have delusions of grandeur  don't have anything to say because they don't KNOW anything and THAT'S where the GRANDEUR part somes into play!!!  Silly!!  
  Actually, Dancing posted that this kinds of Troll should be ignored, and maybe he'll get bored and go back into his hole, and she's probably right. It's just SO DAMN tempting...........LOL  It's the rebel in me, I tell you!!  Love ya--Peazy

[bsills]

Whateva'.

[percsnomas]

You know, after thinking maybe i was being harsh regarding your posts i went back and revisited some of them:


BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . I definitely pushed some buttons. But I definitely "qualify" here, or any place there are opiate users/abusers. I know you'all are angry and frustrated, but try to keep an open mind and stay in the solution.




C24 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . I disagree with most of the posts here. I think I can help you make the detox must less painful and therefore less likely to relapse.





C21 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . I am against maintainance generally speaking because I think people should try to get off the Junk. Most junkies overestimate their physical habituation because of the strong psychological addiction aspect to using Opiates. It is real easy to fool yourself into thinking you need a lot of "maintainance".




C26 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . Some of you talk like there is absolutely no cognitive choice in the matter of Opiate addiction. If you tell yourself that long enough and often enough, guess what?

How do you, personally, define "maintenance"?


C18 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . I have experience at a detox clinic, and like anything else, it can have good and bad aspects. LEt me know any specific questions.


C23 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . I have as much to share as you want to know. Just ask.


C7 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . THw withdrawals often last longer than the "Official stats" of 7-10 days. There is definitely a secondary phase of withdrawal for those who have used for a long time (30-40 days). I believe that both the acute and secondary phase should be medicated if necessary, if you are literally climbing the walls. I have defite opinions about this, some quite controversial.


C18 BSills
(07-Apr-03)  . One thing I said was that withdrawing from the physical part is easy.


C27 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . I think I can help you withdraw from Vics relatively painlessly.


C31 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . Look at my other posts. It's all the same basic approach. Oh, d It deals with the physical detox, not the psychological aspects, except to the extent that the psycholgical aspects is so much harder when you are in the throw of acute and/or extended withdrawals



C6 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . I think you should read the theories re happiness before you detox, because it is hard to learn new info when you are detoxing. Have you read "Feeling Good" by David Burns.

I think that Detox is very important, because it can keep you depressed if you are using, and the truth is, you really won't know if you are depressed or not until you are several months clean.


C24 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . I think that if you go through a gradual detox, you will find you can deal with the anxiety.


C48 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . Make sure all of the physical part of your withdrawal is dealt with, and then get to NA or something like it if you want to stay clean.


C50 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . Most addicts go out within the first 40 days of "withdrawal". You don't discuss the precise pattern of your relapse, but it may be that you did not treat your withdrawals properly, or perhaps you were beyond the really physical part and it is the "tougher" psychological part. I think there are differernt solutions depending upon your personal relapse pattern.


C35 BSills
(05-Apr-03)  . One person I know got off of Methadone by returning to Heroin for several weeks, and then doing a different detox approach.


C47 BSills
(06-Apr-03)  . Hellbent has the right approach to getting off of any physically addictive narcotic. I would emphasize that one should wean as far as they can on their opiate of choice, and then switch to a different milder opioid in the smallest amounts possible, for the shortest time possible. The idea is to get the physical problems down to the point where you must deal with the psychological, rather than the overcomplicating fact of the physical. And, oh yeah, lots of Benzos . . .


C49 BSills
(07-Apr-03)  . Well, I described tapering with a twist, really.



And now that i've read them again, i guess i'm still looking for the part about "painless vike withdrawal", since you "disagree with most of the posts here"
, and i would really like to talk with the person that used H to get off Meth., with a "different detox approach".

percs

[funnyleslie]

hi. i am new to this website and chat all together. i just recently got off of vicoprofen, which was hell. i am also taking 1 10mg oxycontin per day. i have severe tmj problems, but this stuff was ruining my life. i am going to detox from the oxy in about 1 month. i am scared to death. i am currently taking prozac, but going to switch to wellbutrin and paxil, because of anxiety issues. what is this f everyone is talking about. please fill me in. anything that would help my jaw/head pain that is non narcotic would be great!! i liked the high at first and the relief, but it got to overwhelming, taking over my life. this has been the hardest 2 months of my life, getting off this stuff. and i am still very scared. any feed back please would help!! thank you.

[dancinginthedark]

Percs!

You missed the coup de grace....shame on you!  An utterly desperate woman named Roxxy wrote in under The Thomas Recipe thread re:  Fiorinal/cet addiction.  Thomas wrote her back, givin her the tried & true method that our entire DA/F thread is using.  As I'm sure you both know, comparing opiates to barbs is like comparing apples to oranges.  And switching to opiates, as she suggests below, will not protect you from the barb withdrawal, which offers such options as seizures, hallucinations and even death!

When I read her post, I was shaking I was so mad.  To speak with such authority!  Well, she does that about everything here but most everyone, even Sir Thomas preface all advice with, "My 2 cents worth, in my experience, as far as I know..."  I was livid & we swept in to recue her from this brain dead ignoramus.  Herein lies her post.

"If you are doing a medicated detox, try to taper with a differerent, preferably weaker, structurally differernt opiate. If you still feel weird, go for a differernt, weaker opiate the foillowing weak- say Darvon -in the smallest dodes possible.) Any of the BENZodiazipines work well. I recommend Xanax or Ativan, and sometimes Teazapam for sleep. But do not take more than it is "prescribed for", and try to take only what you need because of the real addictive potential of Benzos (Respect their power and danger)."

I think ignoring her is the best tack.  I hate to use this analogy but it works & after my most unfortunate stalking incident was over, later, Gavin de Baeker backed it up in his bestseller, "The Gift of Fear."

I'll paraphrase.

When you are the recipient of unwanted attention, DO NOT ENGAGE.  People who keep coming back no matter how much you reject them are not getting the message & will consequently settle for any attn., whether good or bad.  One eg. I recall was when he said.  If you ignore 29 of his his/her calls & finally call back on the 30th to yell, you have just taught the person that the cost of getting your attn/response is 30 phone calls.

That's always stuck with me.  Of course we can bash her to kingdom come :-) but we shouldn't reply to any of her posts, whether to agree or disagree.

Her need for attn. is demented & I want to ask her:  Which part of the "we don't want you/go away/bad info., etc. etc. do you NOT understand?

Just my 9 cents worth (inflation & all)

Take care gang!!
Dancin'

[dancinginthedark]

FunnyLeslie, 'twas not funny what you just wrote;-).  But it did bring a chill to my heart.

I first went on F...fiorinal/cet, Esgic..(F) about 10-11 yrs. ago for TMJ!  I was being given vikes, percs, codeine, various muscle relaxants, etc. back then & I liked the buzz but they just didn't work.  But once on F, that was where the trouble began & I had to either have surgery or go for very aggressive treatment with an MD specialist.  I chose the treatment which was mostly physio, learning how to not grind my teeth smiling, doing jaw exercises, etc.  I also went for massage & acupuncture.  Finally, the pain got so bad, the nerve became engaed & Dr. Au Naturel put me on F & yes, it helped some at first but more, I liked the kick it gave me.  After about a yr. of treatment, my jaw was 100% better but there was NO way I could give up the F because it helped me cope.  Most sadly, my TMJ has been fine since after my 1 yr. of 2-3x a wk. treatment.  However, my headaches are another story & besides migraines/tension, I've had 2 rather serious head injuries in the last few yrs. resulting in memory/recall loss, reduced cognitive ability & blinding headaches.  

We had a fiorinal grp here but moved when they shut down awhile back & moved to drugabuse.com.  We're under "Support" & our newest thread is at the top "Fiorinal Users #2" but there is much more further down.  That's a looooonnnng thread & I'd look for the "Found Our Thread" post from me which is our thread from here which is loaded with factual, source material - verbatim and our own stories.

Also, scroll on down & find some of our exchanges under The Thomas Recipe, fiorinal & one other (can't remember!) where Roxxy/JR/Dancing/Kat participated.  You'll fine much there.

I do NOT wish to be a F nazi & hope I'm not But PLEASE think very carefully about going down this road.  Unlike opiate folks, if we don't detox very very slowly, we can suffer seizures & even death.  Oh, and hallucinations, the shakes, etc., just for added fun  It's a most delicious drug & my worry with you is that you have already been addicted to drugs, TMJ is generally a chronic prob meaning chronic usage,and well, F is a damn scary drug.  Actually top of the board is one about "Relapse".  Bluecew wrote how she was so glad she didn't try F after receiving a warning from another poster.

What about muscle relaxants?  Most TMJ pain is caused by spasms & I remember flexeril helped me a lot but I said it didn't so I could get more F!

Good luck, Leslie

[oxic]

You are right my BC buddy(some day you will venture to the land of milk and honey,,,,,Alta.)

To a fault, i'm always trying to give everyone the benefit; and this time definately not warranted.

Matter closed.

Take Care,

percs

[bsills]

Thanks for keeping an open mind.  I realize that there are a lot of power players on any forum, and certainly a lot of negative thinking amongst us.

I will answer specific questions, and just tell you what I think I know.

[bluecatchew]

Did you say something (nice) to BS? LOL Is this person for real or what? Like Dancin said just ignore her?him? post but it is soooooo difficult! IT is EVERYWHERE ! Other than that hope all is well.
Dancin-Please continue with the F warnings, they are heeded. I shrudder to think where it could have lead me and all I am trying to do is get to a managable level of pain meds for pain control. I thank-you once again.

[dancinginthedark]

Hey Blue Baby!  

Great to hear from you & trust & hope you are doing well.  I've read your posts under "Relapse" & know the stress you're currently under but at least you had the clarity of thought to start that one which IMHO, is much overdue.  I say, let's get that puppy out of the box & let 'er run til she can't run no more.  Wherein we start another.  I think the thread is a stellar idea & was frankly pissed I hadn't thought of it myself!

Well, I know I was extendin nothing but my best wishes to BS ILLS.  She dun got that one right!  Of course I can't speak for oxic but he is Canadian you know, thus rendering him well beyond redemption!

And I do know the temptation to slam her but I lost my ER...ID.  Hey, in life, such thinks happen!  I'm being very bad tonight so like, uh, excuse me, huh?

May I join your esteemed fellowship of relapse/lapsees as I daresay I could take on anyone on this board, lapse for lapse.  
BTW; as I was recently ponderin' the word relapse vs. lapse, I thought I'd best check my Oxford Big Kahuna.  You think it's not big?  I was perusing something 1 nt. in bed & quite fell asleep only to discover upon morn that I was no longer to B or nor to B; quite clearly I was not not B'ing.

Thus:  According to the Brits & for our intents & purposes:

Lapse - slip or minor mistake
Relapse - to fall back into ill health, crime or heresy

Well, I prefer to lapse.  I might add the prefix RElapse if I was lapping my lapses but then I'd have to shriek fromm the rooftops, somethin akin to. "I'm rererererewrerelapsing, the "re's" naturally dependant on how many go rounds you have.

I say we should call it a lapse.  I've already had ill health, committed not that many crimes & heresy.....mea culpa!To relapse simply doesn't challenge me.

May I pls join your august grp?  I've fallen off the pill bottle as it were.

Blue, great to hear from you, hang in there & conrats on the fortitude in not taking F.  Bless you for all that you are.

Ciao bella,

Joods

[IrishLuck]

Hi - I have been reading your comments for the past week now and am so relived that I am not alone in..well not really alone! I am a 40 female with cronic back problems. I had my final surgery 2 years ago with a four level fusion with screws and rods. I am very tall and thin and active. That all changed when I agreed to this. Now I go thru pain management and take both norco and oxy everyday. Tomorrow I go in for a caudel nerve block and am quite nervous. Anyway my point is, I too have gone thru withdrawls when I run out and have to wait for my script. I know I have to take the meds for now for the pain, but my worst fear is feeling that anguish again. I feel for each and everyone of you. You are very strong people and I can totally relate to all you say. Good luck to everyone and I will be thinking of your words of wisdom tomorrow when I lye on that table in fear.

[lisabet]

Hi Irish, welcome!!!  Your situation reminds me of another forum poster, our beloved Mrs. Rat, who has to rely on pain meds just to help her thru the day and night. She is supposed to be scheduled for a surgery that will hopefully relieve her of her pain, and she's already mentally bracing herself for the day she'll be able to taper off her pain meds.  You're right about the WD's - they ARE a *****.  I wish I had come concrete advise for you, but the best I can suggest is to read all the posts here - you'll come across ALOT of good information from people who's gone through it. Good luck tomorrow; you'll be in my thoughts, and please post again and let us know how you're doing.  There's so many good people here that are willing to listen and share.  (And juding by your handle, I'm guessing you're an optimist at heart....) smile.  Love/Peace, Lisabet...(if you'd like to chat one-on-one my e-m address is ***@****

[rodewc]

u will be fine.. follow the doc's orders.. rest.. get well, read.. enjoy being pampered, get well soon~~