Psychotic Episodes

My story is long and most of you have heard it before from others. I have abused vicodin for about 7 years. I have tried to detox a few times with short term success. I did detox, but I went back to the meds. In May 2007 I tried to detox again and I hade a seizure. I spent some time in the hospital, but again a little whie later I was back on the meds. I then decieded to go to the hospital and detox, which I should have done in the first place. I lasted a little while, but again I went back to vicodin. This is where it gets weird. In September I had a psychotic episode. I ended up getting arrested and taken to the hospital which is the only reason I knew I was sick. I don't remember most things and what I do remember was a delusion. What I remember happening did, but my perspective of it was "crazy." The toxicology screen showed I had no drugs in my system, which I find really strange. I was treated for a mental disorder and the doctors don't know why it happened. I did have more episodes after that, but they were shorter. I have told the doctors that I am an addict. They don't seem to think that it has anything to do with what happened. Has anyone ever heard of this happening from withdrawals? even though the doctors don't think so, I think it may have something to do with it. I would be thankful for any feedback. Also, there is a lot more to this story. I just tried to make it short as I could. If you want to know anything plase ask. Thank you.

[marcatj]

sweety, how old are you?

it's very common for people with a predisposition to psychotic breaks to have them in their early 20's...

are you around that age?

[TommyBee]

No, I am 30

[Lotsatrout]

In my opinion.... (I know it's not worth much), I really don't think it has anything to do with pain meds or withdrawls...  I've never heard of "psychotic episodes" being tied to WD symptoms or with pain pills themselves for that matter.  I always read the literature that comes with my pain meds (for fun mostly) and it doesn't even state that psychotic episodes are a "rare" side effect.  

Have you been taking any other medications besides pain pills?  It must be scary to go through something like that.  I've had 2 anxiety attacks in my life and they were scary to me so I can't imagine going through something like you describe.  I really hope you can get this sorted out and put an end to it.   Best wishes,

Trout

[TommyBee]

Everyones opinion is worth something.

The main reason I hink that the vicodin has something to do with it is because as soos as I started taking the pills again the episodes stopped.

To answer your question; after detox the last time I was put on seroquel. I went to pick up new meds today, but they did not have them in stock and the order did not come in yet. I am now on my 2nd day of clonidine, because I started taking vicodin again a few weeks ago.

Now I am scared that I am going to have another episode now that I am trying to detox again. That is why I was wondering if it was a side effect. It makes me feel a little better that you don't think it is.

[TommyBee]

This has nothing to really do with my question. I just feel like telling one of my stories.

It was September when I had what I believe to be my first episode. I ran away from home without telling anyone. This was between 2 and 4am. I don't remember, but this is what I am told. I am not sure were I went, but eventually I was involved in an accident at 9am. The police came and arrested and charged me for DUI. I was not DUI and I gave a blood test to prove it. This is very strange to me, because there should have been drugs in my system. I don't know why there wasn't. At about 5pm I was released from the police station. I was still out of my mind. At about 2am the next day I was found inside a business that I had broken into. The police report said I was sitting on the floor. For some reason the police used a tazor on me. This was a different police department then the one that issued me the DUI. The said that there was not any drug that the know that would make me act the way I did, so they took me to the hospital and took a urine test. Again, it was negative for everything. Now, I could see the vicodin not being in my blood for the first test, but it was not even in my system at all.

I want to believe that it was the withdrawals, if not I have to deal with being mental.

[marcatj]

tommy, it's better to deal with the truth than to hide from it.. at least than you can face it head on.

i don't think it's the w/d's either bud, i'm sorry... it's possible it was a combo of meds (that happened to my sis..)

BUT - the good news is if it has nothing to do with w/d's or meds, it is also possible it won't happen again.  the person i know who this happened to (a couple times - not my sis's story) never had them again.  and this was a number of years ago - almost 20.

that said, he never got diagnosed properly, and i think some of that had to do with him.. well, how do i put this.. not living the most productive life i think he could have.

tommy - when you say ran away from home - what do you mean by that?  are you married, or do you live with your parents?

[marcatj]

btw - this doesn't make you mental. it's more common than you think.  and i can personally say i don't know one person who doesn't have some sort of psychological sh** to deal with.

so you are NOT mental..

[TommyBee]

I was renting a house and I moved back home with mother to detox in May. I have been at her house since.

When I say I ran away I mean, I was telling my mother about a conspiracy theory the day before and acting "strange" according to her. Then in the middle of the night I left. I don't know where I was going. I do have some memories of what happened, but most of them are delusions. So I think I was running away from something, I just don't know what.

(How horrible it has to be for my mother. He son moved back hamoe to detox...and it still has not worked)

[TommyBee]

Also, thank you for your feedback. You and Trout.

[marcatj]

sweety.. it's OK.. i know - easy for me to say.. but EVERYONE goes through a rough patch, and needs help.

i asked where you lived because alot of times when this happens to people in their 20's, it's often at that time because they have to make major life decisions - move out on their own, career path, etc.  and it precipitates major stress, and then the psychotic break.

the best thing you can do it get help, from a really good professional.  find out what's goin' on... it could even be tied in to your addiction/reason for using: what are you trying to suppress or "run" from?

God knows i'm not a pro, but i've seen it.  and i've studied it.  and i really believe it doesn't need to be "your lot in life."  i really don't.

what you CAN do is seek help.  i think you'll feel good that you took steps to move forward.. there's power in that.  does that make sense?

[hydro4life]

The only time I have ever seen this behavior is in someone who has taken an extreme amount of Xanax. It made them absolutely crazy and of course they had NO recollection of anything that happened.......

[TommyBee]

You may be on to something here.

I moved back home to detox in May. I got a good job for the first time in my life in July. I was fired 6 weeks later in August because I made a mistake a couple years ago and was convicted of obstruction of justice. I guess you can't be an accountant when you have a criminal record. (I can have it sealed in 3 years, so I have that going for me. Woohoo!)

Anyway, I have always got whatever I wanted. I was a bad person. I did illegal things and I profited well from it. I had money, drugs, women, everything. I bought a brand new caddy when I was 23. I flipped it over on some railroad tracks because I was chasing someone I cut off and they honked there horn at me. I was doped up on morphine amoung other things. That didn't even phase me. I had a new car in a couple of weeks and I was hitting the drugs harder then ever.

I don't remember why I went clean. I have fought with addiction my entire life; in and out of rehabs. But I never stopped doing the illegal things. I worked at a couple of real shady bars in Chicago and met some really bad people. This led to many money making oppertunities. I made money just for knowing people. Someone needed something and I would know who to get it from and would make money from it. I am not bragging, I truely regrt this.

I am losing my point now. So, when I cleaned up and got a real job I was fired for a mistake in the past. What if my psychotic breaks were due to the stress of not knowing what to do with myself?

A few weeks ago I was thinking how much better my life was when I was on drugs. I had it all. I cleaned up and I have nothing. So, I started doing drugs again. Just popping pills, I didn't get in the other stuff again...Thank God. It took a few weeks, but I came to my senses and am now on day 2. (This is sad, but this is like a walk in the park. I have detoxed so many times, this is almost normal. Detoxing from 3 or 4 weeks of vicodin abuse, easy.)

So maybe I am stressing out from the thought of living a clean life. This is more then just an anxiety attack. I have thouhts I can't control, delusions, paranoia....I don't know, I am just thinking too much.

[TommyBee]

Xanax? Can you tell me what happened?

I was taking xanax. ALOT of xanax. Xanax didn't stop the episodes, vicodin did. That's why I was thinking it may be the vicodin or I am just crazy.

[TommyBee]

Did they go crazy on the xanax or from w/ds?

[marcatj]

that makes perfect sense to me...

you were making a huge change.  which is stressful enough by itself ( a huge life change from the way it sounds..)

then it all got f***ed up, too.  that would make perfect sense.

but it doesn't have to stay that way... i don't know one clean person who says "man i wish i was still using!"  i just don't.

it gets better...

but you may need some new "tools" to learn how to cope with it.  there's alot more responsibility in living clean and making money in a "legitimate" way, than what you were doing before.

i hope you'll consider counceling.  personally, it changed my life.  you spent alot of years living life the other way - and during some pretty formative years - so you just might need some coaching, so to speak.

please consider it.  i think it could make a world of difference..

[TommyBee]

I do go see a pysch. He doesn't do much but give me antipsychotics.

Thank you again for your feedback. I will take any thoughts I can get.

You said you don't know anyone that said "I wish I was still using". That's the hardest part. It always has been. I am so bored when I am clean. So sometimes I do think that I should be using. The doctors would give me whatever I wanted and I would sell what I didn't need for a 500 to 600 percent markup. I could still do that if I wanted to. First, I have to think about others. Second, I couldn't handle them without temptation. That was my downfall a few times.

[marcatj]

you know, it wouldn't hurt to try a new shrink.  someone who just doles out meds (and there are many) doesn't get to the ROOT of the issues.  that just covers them up..

and i understand why you feel that way about using.  but with more clean time (and the right help) i don't think you will in the long run.  and the "long run" isn't that long..  in fact, i'd put money on it...

[marcatj]

.. and you should be proud of yourself, that your conscience doesn't allow you to do that anymore.  seriously... that's something to feel really good about.

[TommyBee]

Thank you.

I have a lot of regrets. I hope someday I am well enough to somehow make up for them or at least try. Right now I think I have to just worry about myself.

I have seen so many shrinks in my life. They all seem the same. I am just sick of shopping around for a shrink.

I would go see a psychotherapist, but I can not afford it. I think I am running out of options. Thats part of the reason I am here.

[marcatj]

i get it...  actually, that's what i went to - a psychotherapist.  she was amazing...  she changed my life..

[TommyBee]

How did you find her? Was she expensive?

If its really that good, I might be able to go to my family for the money. I think they firured out where all my money went to.

[tammyk_40]

About 8 months ago, my brother had to w/d off of oxycontin. He lives in another state, so I dont know the details. After the c/t and everything, he called me to tell me he had an episode just like yours. I didnt believe him. I didnt believe he was put in a mental ward for what he said was a psychotic breakdown. I thought for sure he had drank too much or something. Now that I read yours, I honestly believe that happened to him. He was coming off alot of oxys. He never knew he would feel that bad going through w/ds. He never went back to the pain pills. Im going to call him tomorrow and ask him some details about what happened and what he remembers about it. I remember him telling me he doesnt remember all of it. I will post again tomorrow to this thread when I talk to him.

[marcatj]

buddy, it was really that good.. i wouldn't say it if it hadn't truly changed my life.  i had no idea..

and yes, she was a little pricey.  my insurance covered some.  and i found her through a good friend, who at the time saw I was struggling and suggested i go see her (she had gone to her too.)

out of all of the money i have spent in my life (and girlfriend can spend!) it was the one thing i can honestly say was the best thing i ever paid for. or done for myself.

because nothing means sh** unless your happy.  she taught me (or helped me teach me.. kinda both) to realize alot of things i had no idea about (going on inside me) as well, how to let it go.

and that i actually was worthy.  and worthy of happiness...

[TommyBee]

Wow, thank you.

Maybe I am trying to hard, but I really want to believe it was the w/ds.

There is really a lot more to my story. There was also the 10 to 20 episodes that happened after the first one I talked about. I just made it short so people would read it. If you have any questions, just ask.

I detoxed and did not have an episode for about a month. Then I took pills again and it happened a few days ago when I was tapering down. Thats why I just stopped and started taking clonidine. It hasn't happened since.

The mind is a very powerful thing. The drugs may have nothing to do with it.

Another reason I want to think it was because of drugs, is because it might help stop me the next time I think about using.

[marcatj]

hun.. you'll know.  maybe it's a combo of both...

the only way you'll ever really know is to stay clean for awhile.  i'm not saying that to help you stay off drugs (altho of course i want you to.)  i'm saying that because.. well, it's true.

may as well be armed with the correct info.

and for what it's worth, i wasn't an addict when i went.  i think it's an amazing tool, regardless.  

i'll quit touting it to you (lol,) but if you want to know more, please just ask.

(and if you are wondering how i ended up in this situation after getting "so healthy".. well, just ask that too!)  the short of it is, last year was a "perfect storm."... as well, it takes work to stay emotionally healthy.. it really is "the road less traveled."  and it's hard work... but worth it...

[TommyBee]

That is something i am going to look into. I have to do something.

I do nothing all day. The only time I leave the house is to see doctors. I dropped out of grad school when this first happened. (Yes, I graduated with honors while I was on a lot of drugs.) I really not that smart, just good at cheating. I signed back up for class that started monday and I walked out after an hour. I staarted my second class tonight. I didn't go. I have had three calls for job interviews this week, but I never go.

I keep thinking how much I want to start life again, then I get afraid I will go crazy in public again. Also, I have so many doctor appointments, how can I get a job?

BTW, when I did have an episode in public, I put someone in the hospital. That is tough to live with.

[marcatj]

hmm... not an "active" addict anyway.... not yet (when i went.. like, went/went - for the long haul...)

[marcatj]

well babe, you didn't do it on "purpose." again - easy for me to say.  but in my humble opinion, it's all about intention.  and you did not go out and intend to put that person in the hospital.  it was an accident.  so you will have to find some way to make peace with that..

and btw - when i was using alot of pills, i never left the house.  my life was on complete hold... i barely even answered the phone.

that changed ALOT when i got clean.  i'd always been the life of the party before that... and thank God, i'm getting back to my fun self..

you know, if your folks will lend you the $$, it can't HURT...

[marcatj]

.. and if you graduated with honors, you're smarter than you let on.  or than you acknowledge.

it even takes a smart guy to cheat that well...

[TommyBee]

How about instead of staying clean for a while, I stay clean forever?

I agree with you there, last year was my "perfect storm" There were many small storms in previous years that led to it, but last year was...I cant even put it in words.

You are right about the emotionally healthy being hard work. Physically as well. When I didn't give a s*** it was so easy.

[marcatj]

totally.  living unconcious is WAY easier...  but in my opinion, is a miserable existence.

and yes - forever is way way better!!!!!

and i'm sorry your year was bad.  i get it. i mean, in my way... I try to remember what Martin Luther King said - it's not our fault for going down, but it's our responsibility for getting back up.

i couldn't go down any further.. i HAD to go up!!  :)

[TommyBee]

Funny, you didn't leave the house when you took pills and I can't leave the house without pills or whatever.

You were the life of the party when you were clean, I was the life of the party when I had a pocket full of pills, a bag of blow, and a bottle of morphine in my pocket.

I am not dumb, but I pulled a lot of **** in college. I got my GED and i usually paid people to do my work. Texted myself the answers to tests to my cell phone.

Anyway, I am really going to look into some more therapy. I have to do something. And staying off drugs will be my first obstical.

[TommyBee]

That is a good quote, but I don't believe that in my case. It IS my fault for going down. I made those decisions to do the things I did and now I have to take responsibility.

I am sorry your year was bad as well. Nothing for us to do, but to look forward to a good future, right?

(Now I have to get myself to believe that)

[marcatj]

i know... i get it.  of course they were our decisions.  but how we got there.. well, there were reasons.  there were reasons we made such bad decisions..

but you're exactly right - there's no where to look but forward.

[TommyBee]

Thank you. Always look forward, but don't forget the past. If you forget you are doomed to repeat it.

[marcatj]

totally.  hence, the shrinkage...

[TommyBee]

Too bad you ae in CA. I would go see your psychotherapist

[blueyz]

I think I know what your talking about here.  Recently I posted "I was Hope" and my body shut down while trying to taper.  The thing is when it comes to the liver, all the toxins we are putting in it will only last so long.  Then it effects the rest of your body AND MIND!  I don't remember going to the hospital, being in ICU for 5 days, being transported...nothing.  They say you also reverse to child-like behavior when the toxins in your liver become too much.  I was told I was a real handful...biting at any Dr or Nurse that came to poke me, fighting, cursing, yelling and rocking back and forth.  I'm fine now and am very lucky to be able to write about this.  This is what could have happened to you.

Best of luck and feel free to ask questions!

[marcatj]

i know buddy... if you decide to go at some point, just research the person as best you can.

and ask them questions, too.  like an interview.. i've heard that's a great way to find a good one... (i didn't, i didn't know enough at the time to.. thank goodness I got vey lucky.)

[TommyBee]

I was also in the ICU, but for 4 days.
I was fighting, thats why I this the police used a tazor on me.
I was restrained most of the time.

So what was your drug of choice, if you had one?
What was the diagnosis?

[TommyBee]

What do I ask?
Are you good?
Are you worth the money?
Can you tell me some success stories?

I know i am being a smarta**, but how do you interview them?

I mean no disrespeact with the smart comments, I just like to have fun every now and again.

[blueyz]

Apparantly I was in Acute Liver failure.  My huaband had to take me to the ER after I started doing some really crazy shite @ home. ( I don't remember).  They did have to secure me for my safety and the safety of the staff.  I'm ok with that, One I don't remember and two they were trying to keep me alive.  
My DOC.....pretty much any opiate I could get my hands on.  But no more.  I was given a second chance for a reason...I need to take it.  I do have a regular counselor and she knows and is great.

[marcatj]

no worries buddy...

i would ask them how long they've been practicing, in your case - if they've had any experience with addiction/drugs... hmm... lemme think about that one a minute... i may google it also!!

maybe also what kind of "therapy" do they believe in/follow (Fruedian, Jungian, Cognitive Behavioral - which i think is good, but not when you first go...) etc.

i'll give it some more thought.  for what it's worth, i think Frued was a boob, from the little i remember from college. it was all about his d*** and how everyone wants to have sex with their mom.. LOL.

[marcatj]

... and i actually don't think the success stories is a bad question..

[TommyBee]

So did the toxins from your liver cause dimensia?

My friends fater died from live cancer. I ws very close so I know that happens.

What is really bothering me is the lack of diagnosis. Also, I want the DA to drop the criminal charges, so I don't havr to fight in court that I eas temporarly insane. A year agao I didn't even believe that was true.

[TommyBee]

I have some research to do, because I don't even know what those threrapy' s are.

Success stories isn't a bad question, I just don't think the answer would be that honest.

[marcatj]

i think you'll be able to tell...

[hydro4life]

They flipped out while they were on the Xanax. They took WAY too many and had to call the police because he was threatening to kill everyone and also jumping on the hood of vehicles coming down the road. He also had seizures because of the amount of Xanax he took. Has NO memory of the things he's done while on them.

[hydro4life]

I just sent you a PM....

[TommyBee]

Thank you for the PM

[TommyBee]

I wish I coud tell if they were not telling the truth. I really don't think will be able to tell.

(They sue as hell didnt know when I was lieing to get meds}

[blueyz]

I don't know if you would call it dimensia or not, but I was clearly out of my mind.  I simply have no memory of the crazy stuff I was doing amd saying.  And YES, they said it was all due to the liver failure.  The toxins will inflitrate your head and cause serious confusion, loss of memory...etc.