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Re-Addiction/detox
by OxyDout, Oct 22, 2002 12:00AM
I have been clean for a little while now, however, I have tended to take things here and there, it hasn't led to becoming re-addicted, AS OF YET ANYWAY........ I'm curious as to how long I would have to take something in order to become addicted, I heard 3 days. Also, do I have to take a lot to become re-addicted or could I get addicted to taking just a small amount daily. I used to take about 200mg of oxycontin a day. Any input would be appreciated. I'm asking now because just recently I took a few vics for 3 days straight, I didn't become re-addicted, nor did I feel any withdrawal, but it scared the hell out of me.......... thanks,
GWH
GWH
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I also tapered off percs, with the help of a co-worker...just felt i was more accountable; plus it felt real good when i returned some of my allotted meds.
I've just entered my third month off...and feeling very good.
Stay the course Laura, I'm/we're pulling for you!!!!!!!!!!!
It does make me wonder how much this shot would have caused if I had to pay for it out of pocket. This is a Doc I know well. He works in the same HMO that I work for, and we refer clients back and forth. He still seemed annoyed that I called, but hell, it is my health I was worried about. It's the same Doc who offered me oxy when I told him I was an addict and asked for bup instead.
He's not a bad guy, he just couldn't accept that a person as 'straight" looking as me could possibly be an addict, even though I did come totally clean with him last summer.
Wierd.
WW
Things are going really well for me, my life is back together, sailing smoothly and happily. No hydro, no tears, no pain....lots of smiles.
I won't be actively posting, but I will be reading the board when I can and will try to help as I can...so I'll be out here and hopefully can help if someone needs it.
I know we are not supposed to post e-mail addresses, so I will not post mine, but some of you have it and if you need an ear, please use it.
Copuple of quick notes:
WW, thank you...my love to you too.
Pixi, never posted you because you seemed to be someone who (like me) got most of their strength from answering others questions...I got a lot from your posts too. Thanks, hope you are OK.
DEVA, (are you also a Diva?) thank you for the well wishes...amnio was fine...I will have 3 girls now! Add mom and I have a polo team. Hope things go well for you, LOL.
Alissa, don't know if you are still out there, but if you are...please remember there are people who love you...for who you are...not for who you think you should be. Please take care Spunkmeister...miss you.
DB, (dirt...Debbie...DB hmmm.) Hope you are doing well. You have given back a lot to help others here...you should be proud of that. I hope all works out for you, you deserve it to. Don't be so hard on yourself if you can avoid it.
Hippy, bmac, sean, jess, et al....thank guys...make it OK?
Chezz...well you know.
Jeff...hang in there.
Goldenbear, hope I did not offend you. I was not trying to defend anyone really...just to suggest that this should be a place where we all try to understand and not to judge. Even not to judge those that judge us. I wish you the best, 21+ days is a long way down a very hard road, my congratulations to you on doing so well and your courage. Again, no offense meant, wish you the best, as I do all here.
pon
Thomas
So your doc was annoyed? When I went through my back treatment and surgery, I was struck by how blase all the docs were.
You should have a perspective on this: is it just too stressful and draining to 'care' all day when you're dealing with people's pain and fear? I can see where it would be. I'm glad you bugged him, though. Keep him on speed dial just in case. You could give him anger management therapy once your back is fine.
Thomas
PEACE!!
Good Luck and God Bless
Jane says (I'm gonna kick tomorrow)
You KNOW I wouldn't have given you such a hard time if you hadn't mentioned that fact that you are a free-lance writer!
I also like your choice of "Mariposa" as your new Username on the board.
No hard feelings,
~~~~Jess~~~~
NM156
Finishing up day 23 here. I am amazed at how much sharper and clearer the world is. Just amazed.
To be honest, if I could still get that same wonderful feeling I got when I first "found" hydro (or even when I used it on a regular, but still occasional basis) I don't know that I could stay away. But the truth is that I was at the point where more and more and more were doing less and less and less. Even "day one" of a new batch left me feeling dissapointed with the not-quite-high, but up half the night and unable to eat much. From then on it was just a matter of having enough so I wouldn't crash . . . but of course I always did crash eventually; aside from the fog of the hydro, the body can only take so long with too little sleep, too little food.
Skip -- I did make it to the gym yesterday. It was a very nice boost, but I'm sore as a pig today.
WW -- hope your leg is returning to normal.
CATUF
slow release capsule twice a day.I don't feel addicted to it like I did when I was taking them for the 'fun' of it,you know.
I did swap to another narcotic but it still feels about the same.
I know if I take it long enough I will have a physical dependance
but as long as I take them as prescribed I will always have a doctor to help me taper then detox.I finally realized the medical
community will help us and will prescribe these evil little pills
we all are addicted to as long as we go by their rules.
I do have pain that only these opiates can relieve in part but
surgery can't fix what ails me.I really believe now that I can let someone else control my narcotic use because for over 20 years I have tried and failed miserably.I hope you can fight the addiction part,the mental part really sux!
bmac
a day then stop ,your imunuty to vike's and perc's
will be very high, meaning it will feel like you took nothing.
as far as the term readdicted, i don't think it applies here.
he gw are you living in town up in your neck of the wood.s
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anywho...an addict with a habit such as you had dear friend, shouldn't dabble with the devil. You should stay as far away from opiates as possible. I think you already know that. You will become addicted again, even if you take a small amount every day. Anyone on pain meds, for any length of time, will become physically addicted. An addict cannot "socially" indulge. It will lead you nowhere.
As I've told you many, many times. The physical part of quitting drugs is the easiest part. Staying off is much harder, and you need support to succeed. As much as you hate meetings, why don't you try to go to at least one (different) meeting each day for one week. In that time, you might just find one in which you feel comfortable. After talking with a fellow member on the phone yesterday, I think I will do the same. It has worked for many, many others - I feel that I just have to find the right one.
What do you have to lose? You have the time to devote to going to the gym to have a healthy body right? You probably can find an hour in each day to help you get cleaned up...good luck.
a.k.a. groovygirl
As far as meetings........ I know they work for other people, and I have gone to 1 or 2, but ITS NOT MY THING, I don't like them, i find them to be no help what so ever. I can understand that others might find them beneficial, but it doesn't work for me.
Do you go to meetings??
big letter or small,
good morning to you both.
yea like groovy said getting clean
is the easy part.
it's growing up that is hard
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anything, as long as you can stand it.
don't go to meetings , as long as you can stand it. he would say.
dont, work the steps, as long as you can stand it.
i have been doing this drug clean thing since i was 16 i am 42
now and most of the people along the way i have met are gone, gone,
it is very for real, so do what ya gotto do, but never rule anything out.
also the thing we don't want to do are probley the things we should do.
gw i care about you and it does not matter to me what you
do , just as tho you make it.
peace i hope we are always around to help each other
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!groovy has my email
FOR ADDICTS ONLY' it was quiet blast and cuased an up roar.
see we here in phila at the time were emeshed with aa to the point of sickness.
the for addicts only meeting was a closed meetings for addicts.
the message there was fredom from addiction, and we stoped
people from dumping and asked them to talk about there recovery
for the most part. also no war stories, the aa meetings in phila at the time, should have been called WAR STORIES ANONYMOUS.
to answer your question i only go to NA meetings since 1985,
my father is in aa. i am what people call a na puriest
it has been my experence that most of the people who went to both fellowships wound up useing and dying.
the key to meeting is comitment to a homegroup, a good sponser.
1 fellowship. and go to some na conventions around the country
In the very next post, you said you haven't taken anything in a long time, and you have no need for any type of drugs.
And you said you've been clean for a long time, yet you've taken things here and there. Hello? Am I missing something.
GWH - no offense, but I have been around this merry-go-round with you for a long time, and I STILL don't understand what you say. I don't think you realize, but you go back and forth on what your status is A LOT. One day you'll say you need three-day's worth of methadone, and you'll be done. The next day, you'll deny having said it.
As far as the meetings go, they are important and I am going to one this afternoon in my town. If I don't like it, I'm going to try a different one tomorrow, etc. I'm going to do this for one week. If I haven't found one I can stand, I will re-evaluate my plans and find something else. You need help - Most of us here need help outside this forum.
I cannot talk about this anymore. I am tired, and frankly, this subject has given me too many headaches. I really do wish you luck.
i am doing very good, life is treating me well.
Peace
hippee, no harm done, i didn't mean for it to sound like i was chewing you out, just don't really like meetings, does that make sense?? However, what you created, and what you have accomplished seems like a great way to live with and beat addiction, all the more power to you.
Bodymechanic, yea, I think they suck, its the last thing I need right now. although i can see how it helps others, it doesn't do it for me.
thanks for all the input guys.
gwh
he is playing with fire. but he is probley imune to the vikes
after taking the oxy.
gw sounds like he is trying his best,and some times our best aint
so great.
he's smart and being smart can be our worst enemy.
as addicts we con ourselves, that is why it is smart to find a sponser, someone who is clean and doing well.
i go to meeting and always will.
the reason i go is because i don't want to die.
and when im going to meetins everything in my life start to work out, sort of the oppisite of murphy's law.
i share my problems with my wife and my sponser,
and i keep a daily journal, i pray, and i write letter to freinds in jail, i go to rehabs and speak, and i try to be a good person, honest in all my affairs.
i work side work with my father and we talk recovery all the time. and all my freinds are in either na. or aa or are just clean , some of them have stoped meeting s but they now do the religion thing.
me i just go to mass on sunday and coach the bball team at
my local c school.
1 out of three make it.
and when i 1st started going to meeting i hated them with a passion. it took me 8 years to finnally accept them as the answer
for me in my life.
and i still go to meetings that suck, and i waqlk out , but
by commiting to one, i get involved and help make it a meeting that does not suck.
at my home group we set a side 1 nite a month to talk about the meeting and how we can make it a more attractive place for the new guy just walking in, we ask the questions . have we done a good job, would we come back to the meeting, and so on.
by doing this the meeting has flourished and is very popular
and all most fun to go to and inspireing. but it takes
addicts who care and are committed, the rewards are great
being in a situation like this.
I agree with some of you who feel AA meetings don't work. I went to a couple and I felt as though I was out of place; most of the people there were recovering alcoholics..I don't drink..I have a pain killer problem, The meetings also depressed me. I find one on one counseling and family support works better for me. If you have a Church, they have wonderful counselors there. THat's where I went.
Good luck everyone.
As far as things being "my way" - I don't know how to respond to that, because again I don't know what you mean. Maybe I don't understand you because I am older and have seen a lot of this world, or because I live a very different life from you. If we weren't addicts and hadn't found this place, I very much doubt our paths would ever have crossed. I don't have the time or energy to fight about anything with you. Do what you want, and I will keep my mouth shut, ok?
Hippy - GWH and I have emailed privately for awhile now. My thoughts and opinions are based on "conversations" you have not been a part of. Again, we can all agree to disagree. If you or GWH post a question and you don't want an answer from me, post something like..."Mariposa need not respond" or something. I will not be offended.
Whatever works!
you are brutley honest, it refreshing
and i would never ask you or anyone to stay out of a
posting conversation. you hvae plenty of understanding of
what is wrong with us all , and what we need to do about it.
cash regester honesty is a great part of it and a good begining.
along with openmindedness, and willing ness.
in the begining it is our job to want it.
then we have to surrender , because the way we think and our good idea's got us in this predicament.
we need the help of others
we need to be open to other.
what works for 20 addicts will probly work for us,
even tho we might not like it.
there is a saying, when at the end of the road.
the end of the road , i have been there , it a place wher
you don't even want to live anymore. a place where we
have no more choices, no right turns, no left turns.
addicts only get better when they get to the end of the road.
we all know when we are there , cause we will do what anybody suggest when we are in tis situation.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck and God bless.
Jane says (I'm gonna kick tomorrow)
If you are talking about getting physically dependant, from what a good friend who recently got clean and then a few weeks later played with vikes in high ammounts for a few days (3), he felt withdrawal symptoms when he stopped. He researched it, and read on a medical site that it takes up to a full year for an opiate addict's mu (opiate) receptors to go back to normal. So for that full year, it takes an opiate addict much less time to get re-physically dependant with daily, multi-dosing use. Once a day use is not likely to create re-dependance, though it can if it is time released oxy. He said that it can us anywhere from 3 days to 1 week to get re-dependant, with the variable factors being our individual chemistry, amount we take, and how many times a day we take it.
That's the facts as I know them, from a trusted person who's reseach has always been impecabble in the past. Try to look at articles on medline, and you'll bump into the research I'm talking about.
Dirtbag, god I am uncomfortable with your self deprecating screen name! You are not a dirt bag!!!! But anyway, you've gone 48 hours clean. In another 48 hours, it will be over and you will be free of the discomfort. HANG IN THERE! If you really want to get clean, you are halfway there. If you are just in this position because you ran out and can't get more, but don't want recovery yet, then I guess my advice is to keep reading our posts and try to decide what the right path for you is right now. I truly can't know what life lessons you need to learn, or what experiences you need to go through to get them. I can't presume to be that visionary. But I do believe that getting clean and moving on with reclaiming a healthy happy life is your right, and I don't believe you can do that while being a slave to a pill. My humble opinion.
Mariposa, I admire your willingness to speak bluntly. Not everyone will agree, but you have the right to speak your truth. I truly hope that if I ever relapse, you would sniff that out and confront me with the cold hard truth, even if it was hard for me to hear.
Everyone, I had the epidural yesterday. They didn't sedate me, I didn't need it, it hurt only a little. My left leg is totally numb still. Couldn't go to work today 'cause I can't feel my left leg and I drive a stick shift. I'm hobbling around. They said I"d be ok to walk in 8 hours! I'm worried. I got an SI nerve root block. Anyone know anything about that?
It did really help my back pain go down. It hurts much less today, thank Goddess!!
love,
WW
So, how are you feeling today? What day are you on now? Do you have anyone there helping you? Is it working? YOU are my IDOL!! I could never quit cold turkey on my own..I would be so afraid of the passing out and my heart beating so fast. I hope you are doing ok. Well, tomorrow I go in at 9a.m. and then it's 4 days of pure hell and a week after that of feeling like a truck ran me over. How long do you think it takes to actually feel "normal" again? I can't wait to have the feeling of normalcy again. I know the cravings will still be there, but I wonder for how long? Anyway, you will be in my thoughts. I can't believe that I am 33 years old, married with kids, I have so much to live for and here I am again with the addiction. I am so very blessed with a wonderful husband who deserves better than this and kids who idolize me. My 7yr old thinks I'm the best mom in the whole world..yet we had to tell her this morning that mommy has to go into the hospital for 4 days..she was mad, but we didn't sugar coat anything...my husband and I told her the truth..she is too smart to be lied to. Anyway, she took it really well and told me that she can't wait for me to be the fun mommy again. She has noticed me not being myself for 3 months now. We felt that telling her the truth would teach her to stay away from any kind of drugs, alcohol..etc..I told her that this is the price I have to pay for taking pills too much. I told her that it will be hell for me for the next 4 days but that's the price I have to pay for taking pills. I hope she NEVER has a problem cause this seems as though it is a sickness that runs in my family. Well, again, THANKS DO MUCH for talking to me! It really helps me ALOT. You will be in my thoughts, and as soon as I get home, I will write you here on this message forum. Take care!!! And anyone else who reads this, please feel free to give me advice or just talk!
nerve damagae but a lot of burning pain.The blocks seem to work
and I have had one every 6 months for the past few years.I pee'd
on myself for 24hours everytime.I was completely numb from my waste down to my feet.After it wore off the burning would stay gone for about 4 to 6 months then I would do something to start
the pain again.
Good Luck!
bmac
Good luck in detox. I am cheering for you!
Jane says (I'm gonna kick tomorrow)
where to start?
dirtbag...48 hours clean and still with us and posting. i woke up
last night actually this morning at 2:3o am and though about how
lonely it can be to be an addict...especially when you are in the
middle of "wanna crawl right out of my skin jones." it won't be too much longer and the pain and anxious feeling will be gone...then it will just bethat "vacant-whats next." there is a way through!
hippee, mariposa,gwh:
such intense discussion of meetings or not. after 17 years clean, i was rewarded with some of the worst pain of my life...meetings or not, i'm back to the "pain and pleasure cycle." i keep saying it over and over...when i was youger, out runnin' and gunnin'...i
never once thought about what i'ld do if i ever really needed all
the dope i put into my arms...now i do.
i believe on page 452 of the big book of alocholics anonymous (doctor, addict, alcoholic)
"acceptentence is the key to my relationship with God today. i
never just sit and do nothing while waiting for Him to tell me
what to do. rather, i i do whatever IS IN FRONT OF ME TO BE DONE
and leave the results up to Him...."
also (same story)
"today, i feel i have used up my right to chemical peace of mind"
also (best of all)
"serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations. the high-
er my expectations, the lower my serenity..."
witchy woman: ah yes the "the one leg stump." that happened to me
once too. i notice the higher my inital pain from the epidural, the longer it worked. i had a little joke running with my shooter
doc...it went something like "make it hurt real good!"
all of ya
keeep an angel on your shoulders
kip
I'm going to try one more time to post, I have tried 4-5 times and they keep getting deleted! I don't know why,please is there anyone out there that can remember anything that I posted? I just can't rewrite it all again, I responded to BMAC and also a chezz and mentioned WW..and thomas, him I really remember from a few yrs back, I really want and need to talk to people but jeez, this is getting very frustrating to me, the first time I posted I even got a welcome email from med-help, can someone tell me what's going on..well I'll see what happens to this one..
hope everyone is having a decent day (painwise)
Dee
If you guys say it takes 24 hours to wear off, I'll be very relieved. I think that is what you are saying, but could you say it again, really clearly, so I'll be reassured?
an anxious WW, with love!
CALL YOUR SHOOTER DOC ASAP! for cryin out loud you paid for the
right to bother him! just wait for the bill...then you will cry!
call the shooter! this is what your paying upwards of $1000.00 for!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
I called him at his desk, rather than call his medical assistant as he prefers. She had not yet given him the message that I call earlier. He was mildly annoyed that I called, but told me that it was normal to still have numbness today. He told me if it lasts into tomorrow he'll want to see me, but he expects it to wear off by 4pm today my time pst.
:phew
thanks for the support! you're the best!
love,
WW
Laura
CIAO...for now
Where did you get this statistic 1 out of 3 make it? Make it to where? The last AA statistic I saw stated that 5-8% make it to the 5 year mark. If we were talking about another disease, like say, cancer or diabeties that would be a very poor cure rate indeed. I have not been to a meeting in 6 months. I guarentee you that when I do finally go back I will know one maybe two people. Everyone else will be gone. Remember, I like AA/NA
So I am not putting it down.
gwh
As far as I am concerned any clean time is good clean time.
Ignore the nay sayers and do what works best for you.
Peace
Laura
Thank you for your concern it really helps
Laura
I was more trying to stress the importance of figuring out what to do with yourself after you stop with the drugs. That is where GWH, myself and many others lose control.
I am not a "nay sayer" - he hasn't found anything that works for him yet, so he shouldn't rule out anything...right?
I can't believe that that awfully unimportant thing bothered you that much. My poor editors...sometimes, when I have a deadline crunch, I send in my stories all in lower case without a comma or semicolon to be found - funny, they still want my stuff and give me a pretty healthy check.
first things first...i hope things are waking up for witchy woman. i do hope you know how many people look up to you on this forum. i do believe they are correct. my point is the forum needs an honest
to goodnes in the flesh success story. you are one of my heroines! so wake up that leg and keep posting about the good fight!
jessy and mariposa: hey your both really fine people that mean
very much to me. patch it up ASAP! ok? oh and by the way, i give up
what is the story behind the handle "Mariposa." i should know, but i don't. it rings a bell somewhere...save what few brain cells i have and let me "in" on it, ok?
let me clear something up! i need every last poster this site has to offer...so the sooner Phil and Cindy get things rolling, thr
better, ok?
truth be told, i just can't do it alone. lately my life seeems to be one lost battle after another! i need ever last person this
forum has to offer...so lets take the oppertunity here, ok?
need ya' love ya'
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
If you need to talk, I'm here until tomorrow morning. Be brave! It's not easy! I remember when I first got addicted a year ago.I went to Detox and really had great support from my fellow room-mates. We all preety much bonded. There was only 4 of us there at the time,( there were 2 others but they never socialized and were very aloof) but we all clicked and there was one guy named Mike who took me under his wing and was like a big brother to me. And no, nothing other than friendship..my hubby talked to him alot and we met his wife too. Actually there was a real jerk of a counselor there that was putting horrible suggestions into my head and hitting on me and Mike made sure the Doctor and nurses were made aware of this and my hubby too. The jerky counselor would walk into my room without knocking (the door was closed) I wasn't the only one he did this to. There was another girl there and he was hitting on her and so forth. I found out today they got rid of him. Thank goodness! I was really depressed to be there and him and 2 other women really cheered me up. Here they were dealing with their addiction and they were worried about me, taking good care of me..letting me talk to them all hours of the night when I couldn't sleep..you get the idea. Then I stayed clean and it was like the curtain was lifted off my eyes! I loved life..had alot of energy and was happier in my marriage than ever before after 13 years! AND HERE I AM AGAIN...I can't wait to have that "good life" feeling again. I know it takes time for the fog to clear, but it is there...so hang in there! I am hoping that I have a good support group there again. If I was to be told that the same group had a fall back and they were going to be there the same time as me, this wouldn't be so hard to do because I would have them to talk to for support. Well, peace out...Keep me informed on how you're doing! Have you tried the Thomas Recipe? I'm going to have that here when I get home just in case...
My last relapse (after more than 3 weeks) came when I found a hidden stash. There was enough for an evening of "fun" and a bit to make sure I didn't crash the next day. But the next day I got a call from "a friend" and in the state he found me I was not able to say "no thanks." Instead, it seemed much wiser to get enough to last the rest of the week, "so I could recover over the weekend." But, of course, by the end of the week I was beginning to fear the "I want to crawl out of my skin jones" that Skip mentioned. So I got more, "that I would take slowly in a self-enforced taper" . . . . etc., etc., etc.
One thought that seems to help me comes from my battle with alcohol, which I FINALLY gave up in 1988. I really missed the way I felt after 3 or 4 beers - the light, happy-to-be-here buzz, etc. I thought life would be just no fun and that I would be a boring dolt without it. It took me a long time to accept emotionally what I had know intellectually for more than a few years -- that the feeling I was holding on to was but the tip of an otherwise evil and destructive iceberg: that the "good" I was giving up was so greatly outweighed by the "bad," as to make the good not worthy of consideration.
What surprised me when I got some distance down the non-drinking road was that the equation was even more lopsided than I had thought -- I thought I was giving up a small good to avoid greater bad, but it turned out I had only given up the illusion of good.
I guess the point here is that I was in the same situation with the hydro, but somehow I just didn't see it. I've been climbing a mountain of bad because the initial foothill was perceived as good -- good enough to justify (or at least ignore)the bad. But it's all been just another lie forged in my own mind.
Gotta run.........
CATUF
It's the whole transformation thing that attracts me. I went to this amazing butterfly farm in Aruba a couple years ago. I learned SO much about them. Here's something that might appeal to the men here...male butterflies have a very short life (that isn't the good part). However, most of their life is spent having as much sex as they can find and then sitting around getting drunk on fermented fruit. They get so bombed they cannot fly. I watched this...facinating.
Good story!
good mornin groov,
What's up with you today..........? I'm feeling a LITTLE better in that I Have talked to someone in Minneapolis who can get me in for a REAL appointment to address the neuropaty.
I'm pretty busy today working on election stuff, but I'll try to give you a ring. We need to hit Sunday's breakfast meeting too...
~~~~Jess~~~~
hey sunday sounds good. the other stuff call me ANYTIME. tomarrow i
interview with Siemens...wish me luck..i have an odd feeling about
this one.
above all...keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
Thomas
you've only scratched the surface of CA! in my geo-area it is al-
most cult like...i'm talking SYNINON (spelling?) and Dietrich....
real scarry stuff. imagine a recovery group that is so powerful it
can destroy marriages that survived drugs...of course then we would
have to talk about Hazeldon and it's empire bldg. bent. somehow
i just don't think that bill w, Dr. bob, and Clancy (i'm swooning)
ment for it all to come to this.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
Question: Can(not does, as in statistical) Intervention work??
Summary: Mother in law(~52), totally out of control, sitting in the equivalent of a crack house....as we speak
She's doing at least the triple whammy; coke(at least foils it....),vikes, and xanax or any other benzo..PLUS booze
Tried to talk to her last night(she lives 1000 miles away from my wife and I), tota;lly incoherent.
Useage spiralled out of control over the last 2 years.
I finally convinced everyone around her to stop enabling...so her mom and dad(yes she was "living" there) kicked her out.
She's stolen from virtually all of us....
She's in full-blown denial and has had an ongoing pity-party for years.
MY WIFE IS DEVASTATED....HASN'T SLEPT IN TWO WEEKS(she was/is very naive to all of this)
With the remote chance of success,SHOULD I/WE INTERVENE???
It is so hard to be the one doing the worrying. Can your wife go and talk with someone? There are programs for families of alcoholics...you know, they help people learn how to cope with another's addiction?
I've been telling my wife and the rest of the family that she has to perceive a bottom, want to get help....etc, all of the "traditional" expressions; but last night i thought We've got to try something. My brother drank so hard for 22 years, and my mom, dad and I intervened so many times i lost track...never lasted; until one day he just "felt" a bottom, and left the bottle(now sober 6 years).
But then i think of all the different interventions, like some caught forging scripts, breaking in to pharmacy etc....some of these people didn't want that outcome, but resulted in "clean" time, and I'm sure some lasting.
My gut tells me to be the one to confront, cause she has always respected me; plus they're is not the emotional baggage that a son, daughter, parent would carry.
Feeling really desparate here. So worried for my wife...she has dealt with sooo much already. I've mentioned AlAnon to her... we had a very good counseller/psych, which we were using for all the the deaths we've had this year(incl my mom and one of my best friends), but he died too.......urggh
Thinking about 'cha!
Bill
I'm going to print the responses I get and talk it through with my wife. I think the "structured" approach is sound....my wife is currently on the phone, in an attempt to line up a Detox Facility.
Mariposa: I totally understand the idea of her daughter(my wife) doing it, but she has had the wool pulled over her soo many times...i think her mom could again exploit that weakness,
Recent example, when we visited...charged to babysit our kids, that she hadn't seen for a year, $40.00...told my wife she wanted to buy the kids some treats. Wanted the money immediately, stormed out of the house, returning shortly, with no treats and only a bottled water(that she had in her car). Wife asks where are the treats? Answ: Oh i figured they didn't really want them. No confrontation....
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE F*%* TO DO
Its helping formulate a strategy.
Bmac: That is exactly the feeling I have....It may not work, but at least we tried.
I really appreciate your help on this one....It rips my heart out seeing my wife hurt so bad.
Also good luck with your sister!
I'm not a chemical dependancy expert, but here's my take.
So far, what folks have written is right on, as far as I understand it. Yes, interventions can work, and I think it is better to try instead of just sitting back and watching her die.
As far as I can tell, the best way to go is what has already been suggested. Get a very experienced moderator who's done them before. You might have to pay them. I think there are therapists who specialize in this kind of work. The only people in the room are people who love the person and are directly affected, and have all consented to stay exactly to the pre-agreed script for discussion. People have to be prepared to let the addict's attempts to bargain for time roll off their back. You need to have already arranged an immediate admission with a detox facility. Some of them have people who are experienced intervention facilitators available to help for free if the person is admitted to their center.
It sounds like you've done a lot of research on it and probably know more about it than I do at this point. I have a friend who is not 15 years clean and sober due to her family having a formal intervention like this, and she says that at the time she hated it and was very very angry, but now she is grateful for what they did. She says it saved her life, as she was so far gone there was no way she would have ever stopped on her own.
Good luck, and please let us know how it goes. My heart goes out to you, your wife, and your mother in law. I wish someone had done an intervention on my mother when I was a little kid. She was drinking herself to death, I was 10 years old and cleaning up her vomit, and other family members just ignored the situation.
My mom eventually got sober in AA, but it did almost kill her.
love,
WW
My wife and I are really hanging here, as we are so far away(Canada); that we need to get things into action.....i really feel that sense of urgency. The rest of her family that live in the same State are so passive/naive.
I guess I've received that reassurance, and now ready to put the plan into action.
Wow do you guys deliver!!!!
lots of Love,
'Percs No More'
Tell your wife we're thinking of her and are sending strength and support her way. This is so hard. In my case, my brother-in-law doesn't think there's a problem (he's about as addicted) so I don't know how we could get her committed over his protestations. Does this mean we just have to stand by and watch her die? She was on death's door once already--even received the Last Rites ...Does this give us any indication how very powerful denial is???!!! So if I could at least help you two, I would sleep better at night. Good luck and I'll keep in touch--Di
Personally I see no problem with posting a yahoo or a hotmail email address.
my humble 2 cents. Cindy, Phil, correct me if I'm wrong, ok?
WW
As I've said, you gals are awesome!!!
I don't have a yahoo....i'm thinking how to get info.
My wife talked with her mom about 1.5 hrs ago, very difficult to track her down, anyways she is definately all f'd up ,sounding more benzo'd than crack'd.
My wife calmed her down, by telling her how much we love her and that we're going to see her within the next 1 or 2 days.
She apparently started balling wildly, and thinks we're coming to ENABLE her again(like set her up in an apartment). Is it ok to go down there with that pretense??
We're receiving info on rehab locales as i type, and a facilitator(experienced intervenor)
Now the hard part, dropping everything, packing up the lit'l ones and making the trek across the country. Not like i haven't missed enough work with back surgery, five funerals, an opiate detox myself, etc etc. I know it's worth the try.
Di, my heart goes out to you about your sister. I watched my brother die twice(revived by parametics), pulled him out of the worst hotel in Vancouver drinking cases of mouthwash, lose every bodily function more times than anyone could count. Its a *****.
My thoughts and prayers(i don't pray very much) are with you and your family.
I understand that she is smoking coke and that the narcs, benzos and booze are more or less mediators, enhancers. I've always considered coke fiends, especially smokers, as quite literally insane. Forget reason with her. She knows only need and what she has to do to satisfy it. My point is, you can formulate a plan that makes sense to you, but she isn't in the making-sense business.
What are her treatment options? I take it no med insurance. If there's a place that will take her that's able to detox her safely from all that stuff, I'd do whatever I could to coax her in, wait til she's relatively coherent, then do a real intervention right in the hospital. I believe that is the only time she may listen, or even comprehend.
Either way, don't be too surprised if she just walks out. You'll probably hear the familiar "You want to help me? Give me some money" response. I'd say that cocaine turns people into animals, but that would demean animals.
That's what I think, anyway. Talk to people experienced with coke addicts and, in particular, poly drug addicts. See what kind of advice they can come up with.
While you're dealing with this, just don't forget to take care of yourself and your own addiction. Her story may end badly, but yours doesn't have to.
Thomas
She has already used that phrase "you want to help,show me the money" so many times.....
Whatever our attempt, or however, and as my first post indicated, she doesn't want anything but enabling help and therefore i'm not optimistic(i can be honest here of course)....we will give it a REAL TRY.
Thanks for such great feedback, all of you; and Thomas i appreciate you pointing out not losing site of my own staying in recovery. I frequently (daily) think of your boxing analogy that you shared with Bmac. It's a keeper.
I'm thinking that your mother-in-law, like anyone using what she is, has got to be pretty weary and worn down. If she knew they'd pump her full of Valium (and probably Clonidine) and keep her that way for a while, she might welcome a stay in a clean bed with regular meals. Addict 101: Promise her drugs to get her into the hospital.
I know cocaine use can cause seizures. I wouldn't be surprised if cocaine WD does as well. I absolutely know that benzo and alcohol WD can cause seizures. That's a lot of seizure risk. That's why I assume they'd tackle the cocaine, alcohol and opiates first using a benzo such as Valium, and dealing with the benzo addiction later. I really don't know, but it makes sense to me. Hope it all turns out alright for you and yours.
Thomas
My wife and I went through all of the feedback today, and she cried hard....but really has a sense of direction; whatever the azimuth...
I'm actually back at work so i can book a flight to start the adventure. I really think I can convince her about detox.....she was very interested in my self detox, months ago(with you guys of course), and will try to get her up in Canada with us for a new start, after detox.
My wife looked me square in the eyes, and said she now knows why I think so highly of this place.
I'll keep you all posted!!!
LOL , percs no more
(aka oxymoron....i flushed 120 instead of sending them)
Sugarbeens(Butterbean)
Actually been choking up frequently today with everybody's support.
I am scared shitless, as the entire family is waiting for me to arrive and work a f&^%ng miracle..
The one thing i think we all agree on is doing nothing would be the wrong thing.
I'm still searching the net for more treatment centres in Washington State; so i better return to it.
Thanks so much again....your words were genuinely appreciated
Several other approaches were suggested; like applying to DSHS for a drug Assessment, and then "making an appointment" with the Crisis Response Center. All sounding like delays and waiting times....but i'm still pursuing. Kind of thought I could just phone a place, and immediately have it all lined up.
I want to avoid getting down there(have a flight booked), convincing mother in law of the detox idea(and the follow up coming to Canada...which she has always loved coming here; i think she enjoyed clean time---even though limited), and then having to wait a bunch of time to get the Detox started.
ps...wife talked to someone at the residence last night in an attempt to talk with her mom; and received a warning that her mom was "not good", and this person felt she was close to pulling the pin...and this person said she knows cause she had a brother do himself in......
made for a real rough night(nothing we didn't expect...just hearing it hurts)
never found the right program to get her off the ****.I do know
the crack is a 'nasty' drug(Cindy's word).I have seen first hand what it and other **** can do.My stepdaughter was addicted to
the crack pipe and gang life.I was pathedic.We feel guilty because we thought we could have done more.But really we did everything we could have done.Try as hard as you can but it is ultimately up to her to stop.
thinking about ya'll.
Bill
Did I understand this is going on cross country?
I will keep looking, my wife and I talked at nauseum, about everybody's feedback....she broke down after reading your tragic experience. As you said some people cannot be helped; and Thomas really put into perspective what coke is. I don't think i ever told you how sorry i was to hear about your step-daughter.
Can you tell me if foiling is the same as doing crack?? I don't know a great deal about the subject, except all my buddies that do/did it said never get on the pipe(crack)
Yes i've got a flight to Spokane booked...then its a few hours drive(picked up by motherinlaw's parents).
Isn't it crazy, the dumb Canadian is doing the intervention, or whatever you want to call this, as i know nothing about the U.S. health system. I talk on the phone to people, and say the DSH what or the ....
Have to tell you, i'm going to really try; but think about the longer term, just when i seemed to get my house in order, i have the prospect of my motherinlaw living with us@#$%^^$**^(**&^%^...haha. Anythings worth it if we can break the cycle.
Thanks buddy
Is foiling cocaine the same as smoking crack?
If that is a dumb question, i'm sorry....just don't know too much about it.
Thomas
..muchas gracias!!!
Have a treatment place, and an alternate lined up. Wife and lit'l ones are staying put(just too hard to pack them up on such short notice)....
Everybody thanks for taking the time to talk about someone elses problem...it is not taken for granted.
I'll be off-line till Wednesday a.m.; unless plan derails, and i return sooner.
Have a great and safe weekend!!!!!!!
No matter how this turns out, you're going to heaven for even attempting to save her life. :-) What a guy!
Buena suerte-----------Di
P.S. What was the boxing analogy that Thomas came up w/?
HOW ARE YOU(haven't asked for a while)
Back at it, with that whirlwind 4 day intervention behind me.....drained me to the point of getting a nasty cold. Thanks again for the effort you put forth for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
The boxing analogy was in reference to a conversation bmac was having, where he intimated how good he felt and that he had the mental part strongly in his grasp....and Thomas, in his infinite wisdom, interjected with a reminder that IT(addiction) is simply re-grouping in its' corner, waiting to come out swinging with a vengence in the next round(of an ongoing arduous battle)..
I guess he simply reminded us to stay on the offensive, because it is such a beast. Something to that effect....
HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY
Take care of that cold. What is your occupation, if you don't mind my asking? Aren't you the one who posts during the week from work, but not the weekends? Anyway, I don't mean to be nosy--just curious. Adios-Di
....well it seems i'm a geoscientist-type(geology/geophysics) in search of hydrocarbons in the Western Canada Sedimentary Basin.
I am 1/2 of an A&D group(my engineer has been off for a couple months due to a bypass), for an American independent oil company..........had my own company for 6 years, but it almost wiped me out.
And yes i'm the one that posts at work, and not weekends....bad boy(probably since i don't have cmpt at home)
How long has your sister been "consumed" by the bottle?
You always ask such provocative questions! : -) My sister( my oldest; I have two others, and two brothers)has been a heavy drinker all her life, I guess, but REALLY started becoming hard-core around ten years or so. It was about five or six years ago that all the family got a call that she was hospitalized, organs were shutting down, and it looked like "the end". (Why no one heard from her husband until it got to this point remains unclear. Some of us think he wanted her to die, so didn't get her help sooner. That's another chapter..) So, to be brief, she pulled through, but we dealt w/ horrible DT's, (we fed her) she'd become anorexic and weighed 85-90 pounds, lots of hair fell out, liver was on tilt, hallucinated and had memory problems..it was incredibly painful to see. When she finally got out of the hospital, she had a long recovery, but "made it back". It was positively miraculous. Honestly. But now, in hind sight, I wish we had done an intervention after she had gotten her faculties back, and been more aggressive about a solution at that time, But we never DREAMED she would get in the same spot again. She quit drinking--I can't remember how long--maybe six months to a year, if that. Gradually began having a glass of wine here and there, she of course had "learned her lesson" and knew to drink MODERATELY now. (ahem) So here we are, right back where we started. She's in TOTAL denial. My birthday was mid-October, and she called me that evening to give me b-day greetings, etc. I could tell she was well on her way, and this was early--around 7:00 PM. No big deal, right? So the next morning, she calls and says," Sorry I didn't call you on your birthday--I got busy, blah, blah, blah.." JESUS CHRIST PERCS!! She didn't even REMEMBER calling me!! So I later called her back and confronted her and told her how concerned I was--her liver couldn't take more abuse, she couldn't go down that path again, we all wanted to help......all that stuff. Her reply was, " I've just been really tired lately." Well, ya know since I, myself, have been in recovery, I've barely slept through an entire night, but my memory is just FINE!!!!! Since when does lack of sleep cause blackouts?? See what I mean? So since her husband doesn't think there's a problem. either, how will an intervention work?? Another question--Does he just have his head up his ass or is he hoping she'll die this time??? We just aren't sure. This is complicated, and the fact that she's so far away makes it even worse.
Sorry to have taken up so much time and room, but that's as concise as I could have put it. Any input that you (or anyone) would have would be great. She says she's not depressed, so I'm not sure this is a death-wish...I don't know what to think. .....cunning, baffling, powerful.......... Have a good weekend--hope to talk to you Monday. Diane
Talk to you Monday...
Getting him to accept treatment may be the toughest test of you and your marriage, but if you want to help him, directly addressing his addiction is the only choice you may have. You might also find support for yourself in something like Al Anon, which can help family members cope with their partner's addictions.
Good luck.
Sundown
I believe everyone deserves the chance to recover and, having lost my wife and child to divorce, I believe every effort should be taken to salvage whatever can be. The truth is though, it was only after losing my wife and daughter and business that I finally realized that I was the problem and if I were to ever have a life, I needed to save myself FOR myself. In my case, I have come to understand why my ex did what she did. I wish it hadn't have happened, but for me that's what it took to finally get the help I needed. I don't know what your husband needs to finally find the strength to fix his life, but I have to say that you need to consider the effects his actions have on you and do what you decide is best for you and your child.
I hope you find the road you need to follow.
Sundown
Well, Diane, your sisters' situation has made me go over my brothers deal(which as i mentioned spanned some 20+ years), and i have to admit, i had shut out alot of it....it f%$#ng drained my family.
There are an awful lot of parallels...
Now coming fresh off of M-I-Ls' intervention, i should be real positive. But I'm not. Not cause M-I-L thing hasn't worked out...she gets out of detox, to come and live with us today(seems like her attitude is good...but it's going to be a long haul).
Now i mentioned, we intervened so many times i can't count, and the result was always the same...continued drinking his face off. Christ a few times I even tied him up(no kidding), to prevent him from going out. Well after so many years my Mom and Dad still would not give up on him, so I had to do the tough love and kick him out and change the locks on parents doors.
Result still the same....continued downward spiral.
The perpetual self destructive path was firmly etched in his body and soul.
It was not until one day he miraculously came to the conclusion that he was not living, but rather just existing...he got drunk one more time, and that was it...NO MORE BOOZE. Now sober 6 years this February.
Quite a coicidence, he detoxed in the same place my M-I-L is getting out of today.
I've talked to him at great length about this whole thing, and he always says the same thing...he was just existing.
I'm thinking, like holy ****, you died twice, crashed cars, fell out of cars on the highway, blah blah blah, and all you can say is "You weren't existing"
Maybe this is the part, that you sent to me: "We can't help these people if they don't want help".
It definately applied to my brothers two decade grind!!!
I wish I had a magic button, that I could push and "fix" your sisters' situation...but we all know if one existed, I wouldn't be on this forum.
Good Luck and Love to You and Your Family Di!!
I think your brother and my sister are quite a bit alike. And from all that you said, I realize that just because I want this problem to be solved, doesn't mean it will be. My niece called me yesterday and said she's sending an intense letter to her mom, pointing out how she's headed on the path to nowhere, that we are all aware of it, and now is the time to do something about it blah blah blah. So we'll see if that gets her attention or not. I'm not holding my breath. But like bmac said, at least we will have tried to do what we could.
You have gone through Phase I w/ your M-I-L, now on to Phase II: Living w/out Cocaine. You are an incredible, unselfish and caring husband to take her in --your wife will forever love you for it. What an act of love in regards to both of them! Anyway, I will pray you have the strength and patience that you'll need. Come here to post for daily renewal!! Keep the Serenity Prayer in mind. Say it often.. Love--Di
I'm glad you pulled my point out of my post, about wanting the problem fixed...may not be enough. I read my post a couple times and said what's my point...and you hit it. I/we desperately wanted the problem fixed, but....
But it still boils down to something else you sent me: "We can give support and rehabilitation(in whatever manner), our best shot, and then our role is over. We need to avoid guilt in the event that all these efforts blow up in our face."
Why is life so damn complicated??
Keep me posted on her ongoing struggles....I'll be thinking of her lots.
Yes Phase II, yippee...my M-I-L now lives with us.........
I wish it were just coke. She covered all bases: Coke, Vicoden, Xanax and lets not forget booze. I guess she just didn't want to miss one. Oh well, baby steps to recovery right.
LOL, percs
She was sooooo happy once she got well. We talked for hours, something we hadn't done in about 6 years.
What scares me now is she is slowly drifting away again. Every now & then it looks like she's taking something. Ya know her eyes do that droopy thing! But I can't know for sure. We've seen her at a persons house where she admitted she used to get some pills from & when we confront her she says she swears she is not on anything, and that that person is just a friend.
She's having a really hard time trying to adjust to normal. She divorced her Junky Husband who got her on them to begin with plus got her kids on them too, so now she's living with her daughter at our mom & dads spare apt. But the thing is, is that her daughter is hooked on hydro's, so my sister is always confronted with the darn pills.
Does hydrocodone make you nausiated when you quit using? I am familar with the xanex withdraws more than the hydro's. My sis liked the xanex more that hydro's so she was more addicted to those. Any imput is appreciated. Thanks!