Relapse and Suboxene

[Flutterby111]

I quit after the withdrawls started on February 6th of 2008.  I stayed clean, fighting off cravings with all my might until the worst thing possible happened when I found my beloved father dead in his home March 19th at 9:20 p.m.   I relapsed hard in the coming days, and the most I can quit for is 4 days.  I haven't taken any pills in 2 days now.  But I'm eagarly waiting for my delivery.  I met with a psychaitrist last week who is also a drug couselor at a local hospital run rehab.  He gave me an option of using Suboxene for 6 months to get some good clean time under my belt if the relapse continues to be a battle.  WE're reconnecting in 3 weeks, unless I call him sooner.  My biggest worry right now is, as I continue to use, I prolong my ability to really heal from my loss.  I'm seeing a greif and loss therapist who agrees.  I don't want to waste money or time.  Before I would've struggled through the cravings and just stayed clean, but now it seems impossible.  Any advice or thoughts?  Before I was much stronger than I am now.  I'm wearing my father's watch today to gather strength just to get through the day......it's that bad.  I vision the play by play of what's happened from the moment he didn't answer the phone until now and I breakdown.  *big sigh*  

[Flutterby111]

and I know there are sub haters here....just go easy on me, I'm fragile....please.  I just don't have the strength right now to get and stay! clean on my own.

[Firefaery1023]

You can do this!  You have to have some faith in yourself!!  I know it is so hard at such a difficult time.  Please know that we all love you and will be thinking about you in your time of need.

[Firefaery1023]

Also do what is best for you, don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

[mimi1313]

Oh sweetie I'm sosorry you've had it so hard. I know your fathers death was very hard on you. Do YOU think Sub is the way to go? You need to do what will work for you and if its sub do it. It sounds like you are really trying and getting the help you need. Bu tthink about what will be best for you in the long run.

Big hugs!!
Melissa

[sadinmichigan]

Oh sweetheart..I am so sorry.You sure have been through it and i can't imagine waht you are going through. don't be so hard on yourself.You still have the desire right? Everytime you think you need to take something...wait an hour. This has all been so recent and I am glad you are getting some grief counseling. Try not to rehearse that phone call..i know it's hard.and I think wearing his watch is a fine thing. Maybe in your greif and heartache you will find even more strength to kick this..you still have to do it for YOU..but you know your dad would be proud..I don't know about sub..but you gotta do what you gotta do. it has helped many..I am here for you for anything you need..i wish i could come give you a big hug!! My thoughts and prayers are with you..Much Love to you..Lisa

[sickcookie]

I am always against sub  unless you have really tried and tried and you have,so why not call that Dr and see him,just go for short term detox.It sounds like you have a good support system in place and are using it.So please take care of yourself you can not go on carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders.Your in my thoghts and am really glad your back

[Chi_Chi_Lover]

I can tell you with or without the pills that your first year without your Father is going to be heart wrenching. After the first year things do get better. The first year it's all about: the first Christmas, the first birthday, the anniversary of the death etc. It's very hard to get through the first everything.
If you are in counseling and Sub is the route you are choosing then that is probably what is best for you. I'm going to send you PM too.

[puranx]

Im very sorry for your loss...but running to a pill isnt the way. Let the grieving process heal you. Learn from it. Your fathers soul will heal you. This is what lifes about, pain, suffering, happiness and joy. Dealing with them is sobriety and living clean and normal. I wish you the best on your recovery. Try not to greive him, celebrate him.

[551]

I'm sorry for your loss and I understand completely why you are in the position you're in.  I am an advocate of Subutex/Suboxone not because of someones opinion or what posts are written on the web but my personal experience with it.  I'm on it now and it use it as a pain med for a neck problem.  It has worked as a mood lifter, pain reliever, and does not make me chase other pain meds etc.  People have been on this for years, especially in Europe.  You'll be happy upon getting on this but do some research of your own like I did via google.  I only take 1 8mg pill daily and I'm good.  Sometimes 1 8mg pill every other day and it works for nearly 48 hours or so, one dose.  It's relatively easy to get off of if done slowly but the drawback is it's very expensive being nearly 9-10 USD dollars per pill.  Best of luck my friend and hang in there.  There's a lot of good people with various opinions but nonetheless good people...551

[Flutterby111]

Thank you so much everyone...I think I'm going to shower and hit up a meeting.  I'm feeling worthless....well not worthless, hopeless....notice when you're depressed you slouch and hunch over more?  

[cathy5841]

flutter, you have struggled so hard with this.  sub is a great tool for getting off the opiates when used properly.  but in the long run i think the counseling with be just as important. you need to deal with the issues...and grieve for your dad.  while doing this i think the sub is a good alternative.  i have never used it, but i know many that probably wouldnt be where they are now if not for it.  take care of you sweetie.  you deserve it.
much love and prayers
cathy

[catchiec]

Have you noticed that the people saying that sub is pretty easy to get off are the people who are on it and havn't actually come off of it yet or gone through the withdrawals of it?
While your on sub it's hard not to love it. It gives you extra enegy and makes you feel great like other opiates do. However sub has a long half life, stays in your system for about three weeks and the withdrawals are no joke. This is not to say that suboxne can be very helpful to some people and the best way to go, however I really think people need to be more aware of the withdrawal symptoms. It seems like some people who are ons sub want to pretend that sub withdrawals don't exist but once you get off them their's no way of pretending anymore. I have taken many friends to sub doctors and support them totally in their choice on sub but I have seen two people who used sub for several months, came off with a very slow taper and went through long horrible withdrawals. I think more people should consider a short term sub detox followed along with anti depressant pills. Once you get past the three month mark on sub the depression after coming off is going to last quite a while.

[sadinmichigan]

what your forgetting is to mention that YOU have never taken it!! We already went over this.Why do you want to start controversy..You were advocating methadone last time i checked..please..drug free is ideal, but some can't handle it..You are in no position to judge.. nor is anyone else what is right for them to do.

[cathy5841]

Thank you.  My thoughts on catch too.

[sadinmichigan]

i just don't think it is appropriate or necessary to purposely cause people to try to engage others to bicker about this...especially on THIS post!! If you read both your responses..you would have been well enough to leave your second response to purnax alone .

[puranx]

Look at some of my sub posts lol...i wouldnt take a sub if you offered me money.  I know how they made me feel and at times it was better then the real thing. Until the day came to stop...even only a month...i have never felt that close to death before. I have many others who have gone through it and i ended up getting them off with vicoden taper instead of sub. I got caught in the same thinking like wow i can have my cake and eat it to...then i studied it. Ya...im an idiot...that was reaction.

[puranx]

but to the orginal poster...you do what you have to and know we will be here when it comes the time

[catchiec]

You are the one bickering. I am not arguing with anyone. I am asking purnax a question not you.
Yes I have taken sub months ago before I was clean but only to get high off it.
I lived with two people and helped them go through horrible sub withdrawals after six months of use and that is personal experience.
This thread is about suboxne not methadone and I never advocate long term methadone use. I am always for short term tapers. I have always said nobody should ever take methadone for more then 5 days or they can become physically dependent on it and have horrible withdrawals. Telling people to never take methadone for more then 5 days is not advocating it, And again no where in this thread is anyone talking about methadone its talking about suboxne. If you wan to talk about methadone start your own thread this is a suboxne one, And if you have read purnax posts on suboxne she says exactly the same thing I  do about suboxne so go ask her about it too.

[catchiec]

thank you purnax for answering my question.
I don't know why some people are always trying to start fights when people say sub causes withdrawals. It's not my fault that sub is a opiate and causes horrible withdrawals when coming off of it after long term use. If someone does not agree with me then state your own personal experience stop trying to start fights

[puranx]

hey im a guy wtf lol....

[hopsing94]

My only question is why on you taking pills still if you went through withdrawls from sub. Why put yourself back in that position again after seeing what it felt like to be normal again. Just curious

[catchiec]

Sorry about that purnax, I didn't look at your profile. Dont know why I assumed you were a girl. Silly of me.

[puranx]

I went back on pills to get off sub and then deal with them i ended up having to use  pills everyday for a month to combat the suboxone. Bare in mind I have never in my opiate career used daily or at work..EVER until that moment. I broke my rule and punished myself buy c/t from perc/oc/vic/xanax/ambien. Im done believe me. I never got past a few days of sub w/d The panic attacks and stomach were out of this world.  Hope that helps..Im not here to judge though. Im just answering questions.

[hopsing94]

Thanks for the info, I can relate to that.

[AlessandrasMom]

I took sub back in October when I first came to this sight.
I took it for 6 weeks, got off of it and relapsed - probably because I was only on it for 6 weeks and secondly, I was popping the Norcos 4 days after I stopped the sub and I attribute that to the fact that  I had no aftercare/counseling/meetings.  I never researched Sub, I thought I could just take it, get it over with and go on with life on my own accord, with nobody's help.
Maybe the important thing to stress here again is the aftercare/recovery???  I think that with any and all of these drugs, we are going to have some sort of withdrawal, it's what we choose to do after the withdrawals are done that is important.
Hopsing, we've never talked, but my experience on sub was the same as being on opiates.  I took that first sub and 20 minutes later I was up, cleaning, being superwoman again.  I felt I had really tricked myself, meaning I felt the same on sub as I did on the opiates and I just lied to myself the whole time.  Everybody is different.  This is just my experience.
Flutterby, I wish you the best of luck and I'm so sorry for your loss, I continue to pray for you.
Have a good night everybody, I'm off work and going home.

[addictedme]

I think the disagreement about sub is more about length of time on it rather then the drug itself. After all ,isnt every addicts goal to be clean YESTERDAY,,most people have battled drugs for a long time so short term just sounds so much better then long term.I"ve read many storys about short term success but obviously none on long term because the results arent in yet.So is MY opinion "short term" use is better,,of course it is but do I know if "long term" use wont work or the wds will be unbearable,,,nope,,so until I find out from people with personal experiances I"ll encourage those on long term to plz include aftercare like I would anyone trying to overcome this desease and thnx for helping in finding out what works and what doesnt,,gl to all

[JDRMinSD]

I don't know anything about sub but it's sounding like, just from reading that it can help with w/d but it sound like (and again, I have no personal experience, do pls don't hate) but it sounds like it prolongs the inevitable.  Is that true?  Maybe someone who has taken it and did great can tell more but right now, I'd do ANYTHING to NOT feel the way I do again, each time (yes, this is NOT my first time, I know...sad....) it gets worse, so maybe if it helps that NOT be the case, then it's worth it.  

I trust Hopsing and if he's happy with it, that's enough for me....

It sounds like everyone's path is different and the most important thing is to focus on helping each other...

[avisg]

This site is totally about stating our opinions and in many cases there are going to be very differing  opinions on the same subject . That is the wonderful thing about this site , However sometimes debates end up sounding more like arguments ...Agree to disagree .....If that is impossible move on to another thread ...
avis

[catchiec]

Sub can help people but if taken to long yes it is prolonging the inevitable and if you research it within the next few months suboxne is going to become avaliable only for short term tapers which it was originally designed for and doctors will no longer be allowed to use it for maintnance. believe purenax can back me up on that as well.
Now suboxne can help and work well for many people. I have seen it help people get their lives in order however anybody who is going to start suboxne should not think it is some miracle drug and be aware of all the pros and cons. You have to remember partial agnast or not Suboxne is still a opiate. and their is a reason why within the next year suboxne will no longer be allowed to be prescribed for long term maintnance and only short term tapers like it was designed for.

[TJack]

I was on suboxone and it was so good while i was on it.  i started at 8 mg. for 2 weeks, then 6mg. for 6 days, 4mg. for 4 days and 2mg for 2 days.  Needless to say, that is NOT a good taper.  I was a mess for 2 weeks. Depression, anxiety and the works. I have read on here from those who tapered alot slower and had great results.  Some people don't go through that so i know theirs was a better way.  Good wishes to all.

[Flutterby111]

This is what happened to me and brought me to where I am today.