Not trying to be disrespectful in any way but I think we need to remember that we are addicts with experiences and can give advise based on those but we are not alcohol or drug rehab doctors. I may be guilty of giving out more than advise as well but it is not for us to tell someone not to go to a doctor or not to worry and they will be fine. Things happen and we all react differently to WD from any kind of substance. Maybe Opiates are another story. Just a worry but I want everyone to know that I more than appreciate this forum and the help and support I have gotten. Hope no one takes this the wrong way, I am just learning to speak my mind and feel this forum is a safe place to do that. :)
I know that I can be very...insistent about people going to a clinic or a doctor...and to people who haven't had the same luck with it I probably sound like a jerk. However, I knew a girl who helped her boyfriend detox from home and he died in his sleep from respiratory failure and she always wondered if she had taken him to a doctor would he be alive today.
That is something none of us want on our conscience. I know I irritate people with what I have to say, but opiate addiction is deadly and home remedies can lead to a lot of failure, self-doubt, guilt that they weren't strong enough, and sometimes a relapse.
I want to say that I DO know people who have gone cold turkey and lived to tell about it. I applaud those people and think they are massively awesome.
Methadone is not for everyone and there are doctors that will tell you that in a heartbeat. Us heroin addicts, however, are facing death on the streets if we don't get off the junk and stay off, either by OD or by HIV, so I usually advise people to hit the methadone clinic ONLY because you get a cheap checkup (cash being something us addicts were low on), blood work, and advise based on your medical history and situation--you also get free HIV tests at methadone clinic, something every opiate user who shoots up should get, be it heroin or oxycontin.
If you don't want to get on methadone--understandable because it is a synthetic opiate...then tell your doctor you want to go cold turkey and have them temporarily check you into a hospital. Just I would urge anyone with a medical condition to see a medical doctor. That's all.
And I apologize to if it seems like I am endorsing any single approach. I was not/am not. I just don't think you should eliminate an option that your doctor might suggest.
Honest to God, the LAST thing I wanted to hear as a heroin addict that had made the decision to quit drugs was that I needed to be on another addictive drug. I did NOT want to be on methadone, I had heard the horror stories, too. So I do understand, and if you can do it without it...God bless you. I mean that.
It's great to speak your mind but be careful of whose toes you're stepping on in the process...I think you need to stop worrying about what others are saying and concentrate on your own recovery. You're 7 days clean...work on getting more clean time under your belt and follow up with some aftercare.
by the time I see addicts anymore they are shooting heroin and quite possibly have HIV. When I say I have seen people come off of heroin cold turkey and lived...its because I will hand out needles one day and don't see that same person the next. I know people who have tried to get off street junk that has more than just H in it and die coming off because the were too weak that when their body went through the withdrawal process they simply stopped breathing. So...yes, I do know a few people that lived through it, and I know people that did not.
I am an "err on the side of caution" person and IF you are going cold turkey then be under the care of a licensed physician.
Getting off drugs is not hard. I could go five days off heroin before wanting to use again. Staying off is hard. You can go cold turkey to get off of drugs, but that doesn't change your body chemistry. IF you are one of those who did the cold turkey approach and it worked for you then telling others about it is a beautiful thing and it is very uplifting.
I was not one of those. My blood pressure was extraordinarily low, I was running anemic, I had liver problems, etc. I needed to be under a doctor's care. I had stomach cramps that felt like labor pains when I tried to quit heroin, I couldn't use the toilet, I had the sweats, etc.
IF you can do it...then I am certainly proud and glad to hear it. I just think that people who choose it should still be under a doctor's supervision.
I just put up a thread yesterday about this. I will bump it up when i am done posting here. I said in there that we arent here to give medical advice but to support one another. There is NO hierarchy here as we are all addicts and one pill away from relapse no matter how much time we have clean. The feelings on this forum should be one of safety, compassion and above all being supportive. The one thing i will say is that some of us that do have some clean time do know what we are talking about, not always but most of the time. We are no better than anyone else, we just have a bit more experience and there is a time in recovery when the best thing to do is just listen and ask questions. I am in no way saying people with little clean time shouldnt post cuz they should as we all learn from everyone. Addiction brings out raw emotions and if you get your feelings hurt than i am sorry but sometimes things just need to be said. I speak from the heart and dont usually mince words. Some feel i am too tough on new people but i refuse to glamorize this addiction. This is your life we are talking about and this addiction kills. I lost a very good friend a couple months back who was on the forum. I dont want that to happen to any of you. That is the reality. Now please lets all get back to what we are here for.....support and recovery........sara
HI and welcome to the forum....first off we welcome all comments keep in mind there are a lot of veterans here that have been watching people detox for quite some time as for going C/T the process itself has never killed anybody coming off narcotics...underlying health conditions has but its rare....we do get a few heroin addicts on this forum but not as nearly as many pill addicts as a general rule we tell most get your doctor involved but thats not possible if someone is scoring from the street and some doctor have outright rejected there pacents once they have been told there is an addiction problem....we fill a unique gap here on this forum we ketch the ones that slip threw the cracks as well as those just fed up with the medical community we hand out advise based on years of experience this forum has been around the better part of 10yrs...some people taper...some people dont have the discipline for that and C/T...I know not of one instance where anyone has became harmed going C/T off of opiates...now where also careful to tell people you cant C/T off benzo's tramadol or antidepressants we also dont recommend it off methadone or sub but for the most part where pritty caring about what we recommend and dont recommend people do....even under the best of conditions some people choose not to lissen and we watch helpless as they self destruct right in front of us....just know that a lot of thought goes into a lot of the advise givin on this forum....I for 1 want to see as many success storys as possible and C/Ting off of pills works...and it works without doctor intervention it is doctors that have got a lot of these people in the very predicament there in as a whole the forum dose a great job helping people break free however they choose to do it...we will support anyone trying to get clean and the advise from the veterans here is good and solid thats the plane hard facts...I wish you all well in your recovery...I hope you all prosper in your new found sobriety...please allow us to continue to help others without puting more dout in there heads then they already have....fear is our worst enemy in helping people...stick around for a wile and learn exactly what happens here...its a beautiful thing when it works good luck to all of you and God bless.....your community leader Gnarly
I just dropped in and have no idea what has people so wound up, but when my husband and I stopped taking oxycodone for pain we both had side effects that sent us to the hospital ( different times and for different problems). Anyone who has needed strong meds for extended times is going to be high risk. Same with hard core street adicts. At the time I was posting the most I tryed to warn others about the risk of high blood pressure and other life threatening events that ether are caused or made worse from withdrawls. We both ended up with our Pain Dr. switching us to methadone and tapering down pretty rapidly on that. Nether of us is going to be able to be off opiates for ever, but it is so great to be clean now. My guess is for hard partying 20 or 30 somehtings its difficult to realize how fragile someones health can get if they are in their late 40s,50s, or 60s and quiting. It trully is scary medicaly. I was at 280 mg a day of oxy and doubleing it at times so cold turkey for me never went remotly like some of the week long withdrawls I hear of here. The one time I had the most success I was still vomiting, dizzy, unable to drink or eat 8 days out. Every other time I tryed I ended up in the hospital. Tapering worked for me, but never to complete sobriety. For those of us in my boat methadone short of long term or maybe now sub. is a real life saver. Please excuse the horrible spelling, can't blame that on the drugs, darm it! Best wish's to all in this adventure.
nuff said. Amen, lets move on. I am about to hit day 17 in 45 minutes. I am feeling great and going fishing in the morning. Going to catch dinner. Might even get another Banana split, wish I could go to Minesota to get one. lol God Bless all.
**Got my guard up and taking care of me, protecting my clean time. Enjoying my new life one minute at a time.
I wish. My wife and daughter going to South Dakota fri. maybe I could sneak on plane and parachute out over Minnesota (spelled it rght that time). One of these days I will. I really appreciate you.. Have a great day.
I find it hard to believe that this message http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/Please-Read/show/1343966 was recieved as sage wisdom yet chronics post above, which is virtually identical, courted condescension and negativity.
There is definately a clique going on and if you are not a patched member of the medhelp mafia your posts will be subject io vigorous scrutiny and condemnation. The select few are apparently beyond reproach and any criticism of them is treated harshly.
I cant see a whole lot of support for the suffering addict in this thread although there are exceptions which have thankfully gone a long way in restoring my wavering faith in the medhelp recovery process.
Chronic. Congratulations on your weeks sobriety. This is a great achievement and should be celebrated as such. Hang in there with us as im sure you can see from some posters on this thread that there is support available.
Congrats Cronic on your 7 days !! I remember how I felt when I started to regain my confidence in my thoughts.. I'm so pleased for you that Your confidence is coming back :) I think it is a great post.. keep looking forward and do not let others put doubt in your mind ok,, Your Journey is what matters.. lesa
Htownnofrown: Yes,you're right. You don't know what promted my response to this poster. Therein lies YOUR ignorance. It's understandable.
I didn't tell anyone to take hydrocodone cough syrup. If you remember,THAT person
was already going to take it and I told her to give the bottle to a friend/family member
after she took her one tsp. She did that and it worked out fine. I couldn't reach through the computer and grab it from her...and her mind was made up.
I could pull apart a few of your posts,as well. But that would be so childish.
Keep that in mind...
Got cha!! Just a bad dream. I could not sleep last night because I was upset about what happened. Your one of the most important people to me on this forum so felt like crap. But, moving on, we are cool now? How are you Vic? Wait, maybe we should start a new thread? LOL!!!
Thanks chronic for this post. Amen I am not a Dr. I do not want that responsibility. The best advice to give is just from your own testimony but letting that person know it worked for you but may not work for them. I went to see me Dr for help and I got wonderful support and if something she prescribed to me we talked about it intensely because I knew I did not want to trade one addiction for another and she was a smart and caring doctor. The only pill I take is an advil if need be and I am doing great on day 34! Each person is different with their addiction and only that person really knows what is best for them! God bless!
Let's remember that MedHelp is a site where anyone and everyone can get support and information, and that we all need to work together to make sure that it is safe and supportive for all.
If you disagree with something, there are respectful ways to state that. If you have a personal issue with another member, either ignore that member or take it to PM. Fighting about it in a thread is not appropriate.
Everyone on this forum is part of this community, and you all have a great community. Please remember that when posting, and remember that many of you are new to recovery and have heightened emotions. Instead of getting annoyed at what may be a duplicate post, how about just giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and thinking maybe the OP missed the original thread, or was just moved by it and wanted to reinforce it.
And please remember that long after someone forgets what you've said, they will remember how you said it and how it made them feel.
Maybe this thread should be moved over to the social side? This side of the forum is where everyone comes to ask their questions on how to get clean or just to ask for support. I'd hate to see new members come here and start reading through the posts and think there is too much drama for them to become a member here when there are much more important issue at stake.
I can see a bit of both sides here. It is always best to get a doctor involved. Not only for the health side of it but they can also help by leading you in the right direction towards recovery care such as a therapist, NA, etc. They can also prescribe some meds such as clonodine or a temporary sleep aid to get through the worst of it which in turn will make some more successful. I feel one of the most important reasons to tell your doctor is in order to cut off the supply of narcotics. I never truly quit until I told my doctor because I always knew a visit to my doctor would get me my ticket to the pharmacy. Once I told my doctor about my problem was when my easy supply of legal narcotics was gone preventing a very easy relapse.
But we have to realize that some people will not fess up to their doctor no matter how important it we tell them it is. I didn't have the guts for quite some time to fess up to my doctor. I felt ashamed and embarrassed. I guess deep down I also knew I would be cutting of my supply of pills for good. The only reason I told my doctor was to cut off my supply. It is a proven fact that going cold turkey of opiates will not kill. There are the exceptions such as tramadol or benzos but in almost every post I have seen most let them know it is dangerous to ct off of these. It is underlying health conditions that cause the problems. I don't think we can sit here and tell people that going cold turkey is dangerous. We should warn that if you have an underlying health condition then it can be dangerous. If we sit here and tell everyone going ct can be life threatening there will be many more that die due to pill abuse because many will not try and get clean. There are some that just will not tell their doctor. There are some that do not have a doctor or aren't even able to afford a visit to a doctor. If someone has other health issues, more than likely they already have a doctor overseeing their care. Not always, but chances are they do.
This is just my opinion but I think if we try and scare people away from cold turkey without a doctor's care we will end up causing more harm in the long run. Not everyone will get a doctor on board even if they could. I didn't for years and went ct numerous times never with a problem. Many others have also without problems. Maybe in order to not scare people away from going cold turkey when we answer posts we could also say as long as you have no underlying health conditions it is normally safe to go cold turkey? Just a thought.
This is why I can see a bit of each side. Although I do agree that it is always best to get a doctor on board, it's not always going to happen no matter how much we try and push it. Is it better to say you can't go cold turkey without a doctor overseeing you or continue abusing high doses of narcotics until the narcotics kill them? Most are scared out of their mind anyways. No need to put them in more fear by scaring them away from trying to get clean. If cold turkey killed many of us wouldn't be here trying to help others but it is always in your best interest to get a checkup.
but anyone who thinks a doctor or whomever who has never taken opiates or been addicted to them..knows more then you..
then your not giving yourself enough credit.
we are not here to break down quantum fluctuations in space.
I had a doctor who was clueless about opiates but sure did give out scripts...now I am not trying to bash this Doctor..but he was a MD and had no idea what WDs were like..all he knew was whatever pamphlet he read or course he took about how addicting they can be.
I never thought a message board for addicts to help addicts..would be ran by a group as if they are in HS and run the school. anyone who thinks someone who has never been an addict is more qualified to help someone because they are a doctor is mistaken.
we are not asked to perform open heart surgery...we are supposed to help people with our experiences get clean....but apparently that is not allowed...
what do you say to a doctor that puts someone here on Benzos to get off Opiates?
what do you say to a doctor that puts someone here on Methadone or Subs to get off of 100mg of perc habit?
what do you say to a doctor who just cuts someone off after 6 months, 1 year, 2 years on pain killers? with no aftercare?
those things happen all of the time? So is that doc right and your wrong?
I am sure there are very good qualified physicians out there...
I highly doubt you want parenting advice from someone who has does not have kids.
I don't understand how you would want a doc who has never had an opiate and has no idea what it is really like to help you get off them the best way they can? How can they possibly know how to do that?
personally I would do all the research you can here on how to get clean...then go to a couple NA meetings ask around how they did it..then decide if you want a doctor to help you.
I think it can still be a good idea to have a doctor on board to monitor someone with underlying health issues but when it comes to addiction most don't know squat. When I finally fessed up to my doctor my main reason was to cutoff my supply. All he really did was take my blood pressure, prescribed some clonodine and ambien for a month and told me to come back in a month so he could see how I was doing. Most doctors will recommend tapering because it is easier. Goes to show how much they know about addiction. If we could control our usage by tapering would we even have a problem with addiction? Probably not.
The reason I finally got clean was not because I informed my doctor (cutting of my supply did help). Sure, the clonodine helped some. I got clean because of wealth of information I found here on medhelp. I got clean because of all my fellow addicts telling me to flush the pills and start aftercare. I never once got an ounce of motivation from my doctor but got enough from all of you to last a lifetime! I never once heard aftercare mentioned until I came here. I'm sure there are some really great doctors out there that do know what steps to take to help us get and stay clean. But they are far and few between. Most just write out a few more scripts and send us on our way thinking we are now cured.
Maybe in medical school they should spend a year taking vicodin? Do you think it would teach them how to treat addiction?
I always thought it would be a good idea if they could simulate wd for Dr's so they know we go through, My Dr. whom I adore offered me trams and told me they were non addictive. I educated him that they are. He was surprised.. being our own health advocate is the best thing you can do for yourself.. Your Dr. is only as good as the info you give him.. actually this has turned into a interesting discussion.. as for addicts helping addicts. I would rather have a addict help then not.. Thank Goodness my hubby is not one as he was clueless on what I went through.. Just my input :)
I like your idea about a way they could stimulate addiction Lesa. I think the whole world would look at addiction differently if there was a way to do so. Just think of all the posts we have seen of people saying that their spouse is not supportive at all. If there was a way to make them experience withdrawals I'm guessing they would end up being the most supportive person alive!!
lesa/bmdad - that is hysterical.. I would have loved to wish withdrawal on a few intolerant and unsupportive people myself in the past... only for a few hours..I would never wish a weeks worth of detox on anyone.. lol... Like the last time I heard.. "Come on, it can't be that bad" "get over it already" -- oh yeah POOF how do you like that! LOL.. Just a fun thought.
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