Reminder...don't chalk it all up to withdrawals

[taperme]

Just thought I would post this as I've just come from a doctor's appointment and thought I would share my experience in case anyone might learn from it. What I've learned is that some of the stuff that I've been going through for the last month or so is not all due to withdrawals. I've been running low grade fevers and like everyone withdrawing feeling pretty lousy and run down. And lots of headaches. And oh so tired. Anyway, I have a little bit of a history, in addition to the fibromyalgia and chronic pain issues I have pretty serious sinus issues. For the last 4 months or so I had several SERIOUS sinus infections as well as an orbital cellulitis infection that landed me in the hospital. It was pretty scary and pretty bad. It took over a month to get my white counts down and then I got sick with another sinus infection.  So I decided to see someone to help me get to the bottom of it and find out why  I have been getting so sick. One of the reasons I decided to stop my pain meds was because I thought they were contributing. I was completely upfront with the doctor about coming off of opiates and she knows my whole history of everything.  Anyway, it turns out that I am allergic to just about everything enviromentally and food wise. AND my white counts are down again. So, those fevers I've been having...not withdrawal related. The continuous sneezing...not withdrawal related...the head aches, exhaustion, etc...not withdrawal related. She thinks I've never gotten over the sinus infections and that I have a chronic infection going on. She looked at my blood work and said that I should feel like crap. She asked me if I was always such a tough stoic person and how I was still going. Apparently I had an even harder withdrawal than most because I've been pretty sick the whole time. So...my point is...don't chalk it all up to withdrawals. If things aren't getting better, go see a doctor. And don't wait as long as I did. And for what it's worth...I think I had my first serious craving today. Finding out that the sinus pain isn't "in my head", as well as finding out that I can no longer eat like a normal person are making me a little bummed out. But---not gonna do it. Not going there.

[taperme]

Yes, I remember the whole c. difficile thing. Unfortunately because of my stomach issues the diarrhea issue is an on and off thing for me. At one point I almost had to be tested for the c. diff, but giving that "sample" is one of my nightmares and fortunately the symptoms passed.
Question...diflucan is for yeast that can develop when the good bacteria is stripped away, right? If I take the diflucan do the probiotics help or not? Can I take them at the same time? Thanks...I think you should write a book. You really are able to explain this stuff in such an easy to understand way. Too bad the doctors for the most part can't!

[pharma9]

The reason that the warning about not taking clindamycin with Chrohn's is the fact that strong antibiotics can cause pseudomembranous colitis....an inflammation of the intestines caused by c,difficile(the super bug)
But most strong antibiotics can do this and clindamycin,clavulin are notorious for this.Clavulin is the same as Augmentin which you are taking.
These antibiotics are strong enough to in effect "strip the gut" of all its good bacteria and leave the c.difficile behind to grow and cause inflammation and severe infection.
That is why it is so important to take lactobacillus or good bacteria along with the antibiotic.It helps control the overgrowth of yeast and c .difficile.
I warn everyone taking any antibiotic to take lactobacillus and if they get watery stools to stop the antibiotic right away.

[taperme]

And the funniest thing is...I found out I am allergic to chicken. No chicken soup for me. How much does that stink? I am only on the steroids for 10 day and it isn't prednisone because I don't tolerate that very well. I think it is Medrol. We'll see how that goes. At least it is only 10 days...and I could actually afford a few pounds right now so that is one thing I am not worried about. Thanks for the virtual chicken soup! :)

[micheleTX]

yea,,house is so sexy, he just has such a quirky personality and is such a grump, it is a turn on lol....normally grumpy men dont do that to me, but he does...hmm.
UGH i had to take prednisone for awhile after I got pneumonia, i looked like a balloon face, it had horrible side effects for me, couldnt walk cuz my ankles were the size of eggplants...but it did what it was supposed to do i guess...sigh
I do hope you get better soon, I hate it when people get sick that I care about.  I just wanna make em some chicken soup and baby them :)

[taperme]

Vicki-Yes, House is sexy, in that smart, brooding kind of way! My head is down to a dull ache...not as bad as yesterday. I had a feeling I was just overwhelmed with all the allergy information as well as finding out about the sinus thing and having to go back on antibiotics. At least I knew it yesterday and didn't take anything. Still not ruling it out for the next day till the antibiotics kick in, but I don't seem to need it today.

Pharma-I looked up that antibiotic...in the warnings it said not to take if you have all sorts of conditions including Chron's, excema, or intestinal disorders. I have exzema and Irritable bowel...maybe that is why I've never taken it? What say you, oh wise Pharma? :)

[vicki595]

Yes,you sound good!!  That Prednisone is good stuff...it definitely has it's place.  Is your head better??   I hope so...

I LOVE House,also. I find him kind of sexy,too!  LOL

Vicki  xo

[taperme]

Pharma-You are a wealth of information! I have taken 2 rounds of diflucan since this rollercoaster began. I think I have one or two left and will take them towards the end of this round. Is that the same as the probiotics? Or should I do both? I wasn't aware they were related. You really do know your stuff! Nice to be able to pick your brain about this. If this round doesn't do it, I will ask about the clindamycin....since I just spent $200+ on the augmentin I think I will try it...It would be a shame to waste that kind of $$!

Michelle-I love House! I didn't start watching it till a few years ago so I've been Tivo'ing old episodes...a LOT of them. I actually watched a ton of them while withdrawing while I was holed up in my room hiding from the world. The funny thing about his pill addiction is that I am so determined even watching him binge on the Vics didn't make me crave a bit...but I did notice it!  And yes, I am really hoping that this will be my last round of antibiotics for a long while. This augmentin is kicking my stomach all over the place. Even with food. Or maybe it is the steroids who knows. At least the steroids are giving me some energy...I've been all over the place today and have gotten a lot done. I always try to look for the silver lining in the cloud...I guess that is it!

[micheleTX]

funny you should mention House.  That is one of the best shows on TV!  And hes addicted to pills...but I think he is fabulous!  I would choose him as a doctor lol....
I hope you are getting better.  Dang it, you are taking so many antibiotics,,one of them have to help this problem?  I sure hope so :)  Hang in there woman!!

[pharma9]

OK Prednisone suppresses the immune system and adding live bacteria and yeast as in probiotics to the body may cause an infection.
This is a pretty minor interaction...One just has to be cautious when taking them together.
They just took Diflucan off prescrption in Canada and one can now but it otc.
Perhaps you have a concurrent yeast infection and need some antifungal like diflucan.
Always something..eh

[pharma9]

That leaves the quinolones out..but clindamycin may be a second choice.Good for both soft tissue as well as bone infections.
Did not know about not taking  probiotics with steroids.Gonna look that one up.

[taperme]

I am allergic to levequin, which I think precludes me from taking quinelones. Bummer for me, huh?  Not familiar with the other one you mentioned but will check into it. The vancomiacin and the other iv one that is slippingt mind was for the orbital cellulitis hospital stay that followed the sinus infection that started the good times rolling. Apparently it was a "catastrophic" infection. I'm taking probiotics but was told not to bother while on the steroids. Does that make sense?

[pharma9]

None of the antibiotics you have taken penetrate bone tissue as well as quinolones or clindamycin and perhaps that is why your infection is still hanging on.
Nevertheless because you are taking so many antibiotics you need lactobacillus or yogurt tabs to help normalize the intestine.
You even had vancomycin? That is for the "superbug".
Your scans would tell if bone tissue is infected,but it would be wise to try an antibiotic that penetrates bone tissue anyways.

[taperme]

Vicki-Congrats on your 4 months! That is awesome! I use Excedrin migraine too. I've been switching to the tylenol/motrin combo because of my back and the fevers, but will try the excedrin too. The funniest thing is that I really want to be as med free as I can. Between the motrin/tylenol/excedrin/antibiotics/allergy meds, etc. that doesn't seem to be happening. I was taking less when I was taking the norco. Ironic, isn't it?

Pharma-Yes, I'm on Augmentin XR or XT or something. Very expensive. And medrol. This follows 2 courses of Bactrim, Keflex, vacomyiacin (IV), another Iv that I can't remember and I think Septra.  I've had two sinus/orbital ct scans and may actually have to go for another in a few weeks if this isn't cleared up. I've been to see an ENT, internist, infectious med dr., and now the immunologist, so am really trying to get to the bottom of this. Do you ever watch the show House? I want to go to him!

[pharma9]

Are you taking an antibiotic for your infection?With a fever and high white blood cell count you obviously have an infection.Perhaps you need something strong like avelox that can also penetrate bone in case some of your infection has affected the bones in your sinus.
I hope you get this infection under control soon for it is causing you much pain.

[taperme]

Thanks Michelle. The tylenol actually seems to be helping  bit today. So I am going to try to push on and not take anything. We'll see. I am not completely opposed if I end up doing as badly as yesterday. But perhaps all the bad news yesterday contributed and today will be better...I hope so. Right now it is a little before 10am my time. I've gotten the girls up and to school, a car wash, gas station, party store, gone for a b12 shot and just came home for a bit before I'm off for the second round. So I guess I'm not doing too badly. My usual M.O. would be to drop the girls off and come home and climb into bed for a while. Thanks for the support.

[vicki595]

Hi~  Glad you're hanging on!  I had just wanted to point out in my other post that in an acute situation a person should have relief...You just need to weigh it out...which you are doing.
Yes,Fioricet is for tension headaches. For me it was God.  Very,very bad. I can never tough it again and don't want to now. It's scary.  Today I'm 4 months clean from it and sooo happy!
Stay in touch...I take Excedrin Migraine for headaches and it works for me!
Vicki  xo

[micheleTX]

hi, good morning!  You know, lots and lots of people can take pain medicine as prescribed and never get "addicted" to it.  I am one of those that did this for years, for chronic pain.  Never felt high from it, just killing the pain of whatever...so, don't beat yourself up if you have to take it for pain.  You said you took it as prescribed for years and not for the high, well it can be done.  Just my opinion on it.
Good luck, hope everything goes better for you, and you get some relief for your infections soon with the antibiotics! :)  Rooting for you...
xoxoxo Michele

[taperme]

Something about hearing all the news about the fact that I couldn't eat regularly anymore, and have been battling this sinus infection since OH, DECEMBER...just really got to me yesterday. After feeling lousy for the last however long I tapered, and the past 19 days and to find out that it has just been exacerbated by being ill as well made my head literally pound. And somehow knowing that it is truly a sinus headache vs. "just" withdrawal/rebound pain...or is more likely a combo of both makes it worse. I can't just put a happy face on in and blow it off to WD. Does that make sense? I guess for me, knowing that my white counts are sky high, that the doc thinks it is a sinus infection that has never been cured (that I ended up in the hospital for) just makes it harder to ignore. I started the day with tylenol because it is still there. I am taking the girls to school in a few and am going to try to stay as busy as I can even though I feel lousy.
And YOU remember...a couple days of meds in the hospital will not negate what you have done. You do the best you can and move on from it. I don't think a few days will make you go through wd again. Just try to stay ahead of the pain if you have it and see what your options are. I will be thinking of you...and will send you a note before you go.
I'm proud of you too! You are doing so well. You should be proud of youself.

[taperme]

Vicki-Thanks...somehow I missed that last post of yours last night. I'm still thinking about it. I just really don't want to take the Norco if I can help it. Not for at least a few months. I'm a chronic pain person, I know I may have to take them in the future. But I really want a sense of what my pain truly is at this point. That is a huge part of why I am off of them. So, I am starting my morning with a terrible headache and maximum tylenol. Will reevaluate in a few hours. Isn't fioricet for headaches?

[LeaAnn807]

I am so proud of your decision!  I just know how hard it is when REAL pain is involved.  It can make you do things that you have worked so hard NOT to do!!  Is the pain worse than how the WD felt?  Mine isn't!!!!!

I will take my laptop, but I don't know if I will feel like or be able to be on it too much.  I have my phone and ability to get on the internet with it also.

I am anxious....no doubt.  The pain is scary.  So are the meds!!  I have never had anything like this done without the "help" of meds to calm me down, so it's kind of a raw-nerves feeling for me this time.  But I am handling it so far.  Just want it overwith so I can move on.

Holding my own I guess!!!!

Again.....very, very proud of you!!!

[taperme]

Just got off of the phone with doctor number 3 who I have now confessed my going off of the norco to. Yay me. She's my internist and she was horrified to hear what is going on and made me almost cry. I wanted her take on all of this. I told her I wouldn't take any narcotic pain meds. I also talked to my husband and committed to waiting till he is home on Saturday to even contemplate taking anything.

You are right in ALL that you said. I have no arguments with a word. And I think I will read and re-read it tomorrow.  I don't want to use this as an excuse to take anything. I want to wait until I CAN"T possibly NOT take anything and don't have a choice. I guess I just needed to Etalk it out.  Fingers crossed tomorrow is a better day. I think tomorrow is my 19th day? Or 20th. I forget. I know Sunday is 3 weeks so I will do everything I can to keep that going.

Monday is your thing? Will you have a computer to check in? How are you doing besides being scared and scared of the meds?

[LeaAnn807]

I just got here for the first time all day!  Bless your sweet heart!  I hate the news of something being wrong, but at least you know what has been wrong.  

I wouldn't take anything.  I'll tell you why...(Of course I will.  I don't usually keep things to myself!!!!!)  Reason is that it sounds like this may be something chronic. (the allergy/sinus thing, not the fever)  You KNOW what happens when you try to treat something chronic with opiates.  It just snowballs on ya.  Before long, you will have a bad headache everytime you turn around.  Opiates cause BAD rebound pain, in my experience.  I know that you hurt.  I'm not taking that away from you.  I HATE to hurt. I'm such a baby!  But I want you to consider how hard it has been to get off the dang pills before you take one!!!  

I think that we ALL have a right to some pain relief.  Just be careful not to "use" this to take a pill.  I don't think you are doing that AT ALL right now.  But I know from YEARS of personal experience that one pill isn't usually enough. Nor is a day of pills.  You are the only one who knows how bad this is, so it's not for me to guess.  You are such a sweet person who has worked SO hard to get off pills.  I just don't want to see you go back down that road!  

Look at what I told you that I am facing on Monday.  I am scared to death of pills, but I will wait and see how bad I actually need one before I allow myself to take them.  It's just been a rough 3 weeks for us!  I don't want to USE next week as an excuse to take something that I don't need.  That has been my MO before, so I am trying to protect myself!

All my best to you!!!!

You are doing such a great job!!!!

[vicki595]

Cheating?  I don't think so. Here's why I say that: A while back,I broke my right leg and ankle. It just killed me. I was automatically given Vicodin. I took it as needed for 3 months,everyday.  When I got my cast off and could walk a little,I tried Motrin. It worked fine. I walked away from the Vicodin like it was nothing. I had no withdrawal AT ALL.  Opiates were not my DOC...they worked and that's it.  My love affair was with Fioricet. Oh Lord...awful !!    Anyway,I hear what you're saying and totally relate.
Sleep on it. You're doing great,in spite of it all. I'm proud of you for holding up this well!!
Talk with you tomorrow    :)

Vicki  xo

[taperme]

Vicki...I'm going to wait till tomorrow and decide when I'm a little more "fresh". I REALLY don't want to take anything. HOWEVER, knowing that what I am feeling is real, vs withdrawal symptoms makes me think that maybe if I take one or two tomorrow I would at least clear my head and fever until the antibiotics kick in probably the next day. I KNOW I am being totally neurotic here, but I really value my time on my tracker and don't want to screw it up. I don't want to start on day one again. I swear that is completely holding me back right now. And I'm going round and round in my head of how to get around it. I do also have a couple oxy left. Not on my ticker and would be longer lasting so I would only have to take one tomorrow. AND not a problem drug for me funny enough. Would this be cheating? I honestly don't want to screw this up.

Pharma-I would bet you $100 that if I took a norco within an hour I would have a normal temp. And I've been taking tylenol AND motrin alternating since the weekend and it isn't kicking the fever. I'm not making this up. Is it possible that my body got so use to the combo in the norco that plain tylenol isn't working? I don't know if you recall me posting about the fevers I was having a while back, but I've literally had these low grade temps for about 2 weeks. It is exhausting and wearing and I think contributing to some depression. I'm fighting an infection for months apparently that the meds were masking. Stinks.


And after all that....still not going to take anything tonight. Will see how I feel tomorrow.  Again, thank you so much for letting me whine here. I thought the pity parties were over for me.