Roxi withdrawals, day 3 without any

[kwmaya]

I'm a first-time poster, but have been reading from all you guys for a few months while my husband and I got up the nerve to put down the 30 mg Roxi's that we've been abusing and enjoying too much for the past year or so. We are broke and were tired of not having sex and spending every dime on pills.
we did our last ones Friday night. We each had 3 8 mg suboxones that we had gotten from a good friend who wanted to help. We waited til the w/d's set in on Saturday and took 4 mg suboxone, then another 4 mg before bed. we got thru saturday, sunday and monday with no roxis, using the suboxone and feeling pretty OK. Now we are out of suboxone and are worried about how we will feel tomorrow without anything. My question is: Have we gotten through the worst part of it going 3 days without roxis? And by only taking 3 suboxones total, can we avoid the w/d from that? I just want to know if we're almost through it. The suboxones were a miracle and I highy recommend them, but only for a short time, as I have read horror stories about trading one addiction for another. Can you someone tell me we're through the worst of it after three days without oxy?

[Shortylow84]

Hey there. Listen, I've been prescribed and addicted to oxycodone for the better part of a decade. Just started getting clean in July. I was using between 4-9 oxy 30's daily along with Valium, opana, and a multitude of other legal/illegal drugs. I'm on suboxone and here's the deal with this drug. 1mg if buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex) is equivalent to 30 mg of oxycodone. Just doesn't feel as strong as the sub attaches to a different set of opioid receptors and doesn't release seretonin or dopamine or norepinephrine...thus, you don't get high u just feel not sick. For the amount you all were using of oxy u all need NO more than 1/8th to a 1/4th a strip of suboxone or 1-2 mg. trust me on this suboxone is a very odd partial opiate and in reality the less u take the better it works! N you only need to take it once a day (same time daily) or every other day...and whatever you do, don't take it more than 3-4 wks! Suboxone is highly addictive as well and I promise u detoxing off sub is about 5 x worse than coming off oxy. That's why do many ppl start using roxy again because its easier to come off. I've detoxed over 30 times trust me on this. U also need to taper your suboxone as in use 2mg a day for 2 wks then 1 mg for 2 wks then 1/2 a mg for 2wks (every other day when ur down to that low a dose) then a 1/4th a milligram for 1 wk, every other day then stop. You'll feel a bit tired n fatigued and moody n a touch if depression for about 8-10 days after your last dose but trust me its better than just stopping at 1 mg cold turkey. In all honesty if u can just take 1mg a day for 1wk then split it down to 1/2mg for a wk then a qtr mg for 6 days , every other day you'll b great! Also u can ask you let doc for Neurontin...it's a benzo kinda like Valium but not classified as a benzo n non addictive. Ppl I kno who really struggled coming off sub said it made it like they'd never even taken an opiate ever! I'm about to start too for 3 months n by then...in clean thank My lord n savior Jesus Christ. Not to get preachy but if it hasn't been for my lords mercy grace love and kindness I'd be dead 100x over. I hope this helps! Also get some N.A literature and attend some groups. It'll help more than u possibly know! Much love n best if luck! God bless

[udoschoices]

Suboxone has a half-life of 37.5 hours...vs 2-3 hours for roxicet. You added an very strong opiate that has 10x the half life of the original ones you were taking!  So the first days dose is not out of your system for 5 half-lifes (that's 37.5 hours x 5) = about 8 days..  so 8 days later, that first 8mg of Sub you took finally leaves your body. However, you also took 12mg on Sunday - so add that to your Saturday dose, 8 days later its out.. then 2mg Monday.. same things.  Which is why people have such a hard time getting off sub long-term because the half-life stacks up and they have huge doses in their system after months or years of use...
  
so you see, you added more time to your detox by adding a much stronger opiate, Suboxone, to your short acting opiate that has a much shorter half life - which is why Suboxone/Subutex is best prescribed by a doctor, not just bought off the street...

You are now feeling the delayed detox from the roxi's finally.. and then when the sub starts leaving your system.. then you may feel some w/d from that. I don't know how much, because you only took it for 3 days - but 12mg is a pretty high dose.  I personally am not a doctor but have been doing to a Sub doctor so know a bit about it... just dont know how you will react to 3 days using it...

the point everyone was making -is that even you don't know what you got yourself into - as you admit "having no experience with the subs" , so bringing it up in all your posts (i think i've seen it in 3-4 at least) may lead others to think its a good alternative to deal with withdrawal symptoms - which it is NOT. Carries its own set of issues and should not be considered unless you have rearched, spoke to physicians, or have a need for it - but also realizing it carries its own significant withdrawal / detox process that has to be taken into consideration.  Thus, many people advocate just dealing with the original short acting opiate (hydro, oxy, roxi) and be done after 5-7 days instead of the much longer sub detox...

I'm sure you will be fine, and everyone just was trying to say please dont promote usage of another narcotic to come off of the one you are on considering you don't even know yourself what the effects will be....  

best of luck, and stay positive you will get through it...

[kwmaya]

Sorry for any offense. Didn't mean to sound like I was pushing suboxone, or encouraging anyone to trade one narcotic for another. That is not our intention. We're very new to this detox program, as it is the first time we've given it a serious effort instead of just saying that we need to stop. The suboxone was helping us through the first three days without roxis, and I had never used it or heard of it before. I do think our own tapering from 8 to 10 roxis per day down to 1 or 2 also helped A LOT. Like I said, we only had 3 suboxones, no prescription or doctor's program, and we had no way to obtain any more of them so there was no option of trading the roxi addiction for sub.. I was NOT choosing to or advocating for trading one narcotic for another. We are now on day 2 without any subs and day 5 with no roxis. Have been dealing with chills, sweats, mild diarrhea and serious cravings, but tolerable so far.  Using xanax to help sleep. We're certainly not out of the woods, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
I tried to be clear in earlier posts that I had had no prior experience with the subs, am no expert or experienced detoxer . I was just sharing what had been helping us at the moment.
Any guesses as to when we should start feeling the delayed withdrawals from three days of suboxones? I took 8 mg on Saturday, 12 mg on Sunday and 2 mg on Monday. No roxi or sub Tuesday or wednesday. When should I expect to feel horrible from those subs? Thanks, and again, sorry for any impropriety in my posting.

[swflafun]

Hi, glad you found your way to this site, it is very helpful. I also had a pretty long love affair with 30mg blueberries, pretty much the same doses you seem to be taking. Also a street buyer, so if I had more, I usually did more, guess you know how that goes?
I can give a little point of reference on this. I fast tapered (a week) from 10 a day and settled in for the withdrawals. It wasn't easy but I managed to make it. Week one was pure hell, week two was very disorienting (cravings were bad also). But, by week three, everything was falling into place. Sleep was not easy, that was the last to come back. I said the above to say this:
My various ex-friends are all addicts too, we all rode the roxy train. I went cold turkey and made it. One went on suboxone (buying it on the street), he felt WONDERFUL for the week he had it....and then went into the worst case of WDs I have ever seen. He managed about 4 days before he was back using roxys again. He still uses. He injects 40-50 pills per day, so he is at the extreme edge of addiction.
Another friend got subutex (also from the street), he also felt just fine while taking it...until it ran out and then he also went into very severe WDs (a lot more mental on subutex, based on what I heard, but I have never tried either, so can't comment). He lasted a couple of weeks before going back to roxys. This guy did 3-5 per day.
As other posters have mentioned, these drugs (even in short durations) only prolong the inevitable fact that you do have to face the WDs.
Based on my experience, I would MUCH prefer to just go cold turkey, get it all over with. Tapering does prolong it, but you have done that, so now it's just time to hang on for a few days and get through the nasties.
I realize that my "control" group is quite small, but the results speak loudly.
To be fair, this was also my 6th attempt to go cold turkey, so it isn't the mythical "answer". That lies within you. You have to want to be rid of them FOREVER and you seem to be.
Congratulations on tackling this, you're going to be very glad you made this decision to get your life back. Keep posting, you'll get great support and feedback here.

[gnarly_1]

HI if you been on the roxys for a yr taking sub for 3 days will do nothing but postpone your withdrawals sub has a long 1/2 life you my feel ok for a few days but then the roxy withdrawals will hit dont panic its like a bad case of the flu with some added anxiety b/4 it hits stock up on gatoraid imodium and theres some stuff call highlands restful legs you can get it at walmart or walgreens it is helpful with restless leg syndrom its only a few bucks and defently worth having your probably going to need it.....rent some movies ....sleep is almost impossible it will give you something to do will your up all night....and I truly believe this is a battle one or lost in ones own mind ....go into this with a positive attitude it is the best thing you can bring to the table
this is 1/3 physical and 2/3 mental be ready to fight on both fronts....I just want to prepare you for whats to come doing the sub can be very deceptive ...im sorry there is no get out of jail free card hang in there keep posting for support we all want to see you succeed....Gnarly  

[disasterinprocess]

From my experience only and dropping roxis and morphine in the midst of CT from others; I had suboxone for about 5 days at decreasing doses and then zero.  

Suboxone seemed to help some but you are in for another withdrawal.  Having tried before to drop the opiates on my own, I would usually last about 3 days before caving in and rationalizing that my doctor knew more. (True but not necessarily my best interests.)

Opiate withdrawal won't kill you unless you do something really crazy like take a ton in a relapse process or find something else.

I would suggest calling a few of the addiction hotlines for info and trying to educate yourself like your post here.

Personally I went CT after the suboxone and had a rather difficult week following: skin so tight, nothing stayed down, chills/sweats, teeth, spasms, electric currents, veins bulged/pulsed, eyes, sores, cold/flu, serious insomnia, heart palps, BP issues, etc. Amazing hunger episodes guess in the midst I lost my appeptite and didn't really notice.  Not really able to separate symptoms due to combo detox/withdrawal.  Eat bananas for potassium if possible; they helped me.  

I would plan on not doing much for a week and stock up.  I stayed inside for most part.  Motrin over the counter helped.  After a week, you will be able to stand up and move, be moderately functional and go through the motions.  

Good luck and just grit your teeth.  If you don't do it now then this effort is wasted.  From reading several experiences there is no easy way.  
It does seem a bit different for those who were getting sick while being physically dependent AND didn't seek additional sources (I never liked it in the first place) vs those who somehow for whatever reason fell into it and were better able to manage functionality and weren't practically always in pain & misery regardless.  

[worried878]

I must agree with vicki
it may be your escape...but may not be everyones choice and the word escape brings easy wds to  mind when a person is afraid
I am not a fan of sub for most addicts....kinda like switching from darvacet to oxycontin?  Switching one narcotic for a stronger one as sub is by far the powerhouse of all narcotics

It may be ur escape..and i hope u fare well....it can be a new, legal, or illegal, DOC for some who will cry when time comes to try and get off that Sticky stuff

It is your choice perhaps to switch from one narcotic to another....this is a forum built around getting clean and not trading one narcotic for another....again, sub works for some tho I dont know a soul it worked for...and so has methadone....i know more success stories off methadone than sub..it is your choice...and u may live happily ever after

But so many do not..
So dont push maintenence narcotics like sub or methadone on hydro and oxy users here if u can refrain...there is a time and place for maintenence narcotics and as a rule, it is not for folks who r so scared of a few days of wd that their hair curls!
It is a choice and we r all different

[vicki595]

Hi-  Please don't take any offence here BUT I wish you wouldn't keep talking about Suboxone to every one you post to.

Suboxone is a very powerful drug. It is an opiate agonist and therefore WILL cover opiate withdrawal. However,it needs to be used properly and should never be advocated as a quick fix because it isn't. It should always be used under the guidance of a physician and only when combined with a program of recovery support.

I do hope you do well now that you are out of the Suboxone. I hope you really are past any withdrawal but it's not likely. The Sub only postoned the inevitable.

All the best--

[kwmaya]

Thanks everyone. Good luck at the doc tomorrow, IRD. keep us posted, Hopefully we won't be feeling too awful tomorrow. but we're committed to getting our life back!

[IRD]

I will have answers for you tomorrow once I come from the Doctor's office I am going to share with everyone what the Doctor said,

Thank you all see you tomorrow  

[ImDONENoMore]

PM is private message - you can compose private messages to be sent directly to another member on the forum.  If you go to your home page you'll find the option there to compose your own message.  Good luck to both of you!  :)

[kwmaya]

Thanks so  much for your quick response about withdrawal times. I am hoping we are through the worst of it, but I know we can now handle a bad or 2 since we escaped the torture with suboxone. Like I said, I'm glad we're out of those as well.
I have become a HUGE FAN of this online resource; everyone is so supportive, positive, helpful and most of all,non-judgmental. I suppose none of us are proud of the circumstances or decisions that brought us here, but it's reassuring to read that we are not alone, and that others have been through all the same things. THanks to everyone out there with such quick responses.
Can someone tell me what PM means on this forum, when someone suggests they PM them, and what does it mean if I click the "Add to watch list" button? Sorry, I'm quite new to these forums.  I've just been an interested reader for a long time. Again, thanks for the support.

[kwmaya]

I'm no expert, and we've only been getting the roxis on the street, so I have no pain management doctor to consult, unfortunately. But I had read that suboxone helped with withdrawals, sort of in a way methadone does with heroin addicts. They come in 8 mg and 2 mg tablets, I think. They're orange and shaped like stop signs and you let them dissolve under your tongue. I swear, they took away the withdrawals within an hour and we were able to function. still a little fatigued, but nothing unmanageable. We took one suboxone each on Saturday, Sunday and Monday and are still feeling good. We're anticipating some discomfort tomorrow when we have no suboxone and no oxy, but are thinking we can manage it by then, since we're 3 days without roxis. I have read A LOT from people who are on suboxone for several months and they get hooked on that, and then the withdrawal lasts even longer, so I'm sort of glad we only had three each to avoid trading addictions. But if you trust your doc, I would DEFINITELY ask him about the suboxones. They really helped us through the first three days. I could even go to work today in my office and get stuff done. I'd try them. but do be aware of the danger of staying on them. Like I said, I have no doctor's advice, just friends who have been through it. Oh, I should also mention that we had made a conscious effort to taper off our roxis in the week before we stopped. We went from, say, 8 30 mg roxis a day, down to 2 a day before stopping, and I think that reallly helped as well. Good luck when you do take the plunge and keep us posted. I already realize that I have so much more free time on my hands, not making phone calls all over town trying to find our next roxis. Hang in there, we can all do it.

[IRD]

I have not yet started but I need to congratulate you for doing this,  Tomorrow I will see my Doctor to see what he suggest I do.  I have a question what is suboxones, do I need to talk to my doctor about this?  Is this a medication that is good to get over this addiction,  I need to do what ever it takes I do not want to be stuck to a bottle of pills to be able to have a life.  I have 2 babies and I need all the energy and all the good health I could get.  I am so afraid of the pain but I am even more afraid of being stuck with these pills for my entire life.  Once again good luck and keep up the good work,  Thank you all for the support.  What are the symptoms of Suboxnes do they male you tired and drowsy or is it the total opposite

[ImDONENoMore]

It's tough to determine how long the withdrawals will last as that varies for all of us.  Typically the physical stuff takes 5 to 7 days and that's when the mental side of withdrawal really kicks in.  But there are a lot of things you can do to help alleviate some of the symptoms so let us know what you're feeling and we can share what we did to help.

But most importantly - CONGRATS to both of you for quitting.  You will find life a LOT better without the narcotics.  Takes some time, yes, but it happens so hang in there and stay strong!  And keep posting - this place is a g-dsend.  :)